RAND REDUX - ASHDOD WINS (Calmon)

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

This is the thread for the second Dom 3 RAND game. This is a RAND game because:

1. Nations will be randomly assigned;
2. Players will be anonymous until they are defeated (the non-playing host will know the ID of players); and
3. There will be no diplomacy of any kind.

One player once described a RAND game as like playing single player but with human AI�s.

This is a PBEM game (that is, Play By Email).


The Settings:

Era: Middle Age
Map: Rim of Darkness
Victory Condition: VP's in player capitals; Need 7 to win.
Conceptual Balance Mod (Full Boat) Ver. 1.21
Indies 7
Site Frequency 50
Money 100
Resources/Supplies 100
Random events common
Score Graphs on
Hall of Fame 15
Standard Research
Renaming Off

Hosting schedule: Daily turns through Turn 15, and then switch to a Sunday / Tuesday / Thursday schedule. Deadlines will generally be at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Here is a link re Boston Time for your convenience. Boston Time (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=43)



The nations in the game are:

Abysia (Wraithlord)
Ashdod (Calmon... who lead them to VICTORY!!)
Caelum - Played by Don_Corazon; Dead Turn 16
C'Tis - Played by Quantum Mechani / Baalz; turned AI on Turn 37
Ermor - Played by Zeldor, and then Anticipatient; Turned AI on Turn 40
Jotunheim - Amhazair
Machaka (Moderation)
Marignon - Lingchih
Pythium - Played by Ramshead; Went AI turn 43.
R'lyeh - Atul
Shinuyama - Played by Micah; Dead turn 24
Tien Chi - Zensei
Ulm - Shmonk


The players:

1. Micah (Shinuyama)
2. Moderation (Machaka)
3. QM (C'tis)
4. Wraithlord (Abysia)
5. Calmon (Ashdod = Winner)
6. Amhazair (Ulm)
7. Atul (R'lyeh)
8. Don Corazon (Caelum)
9. Zeldor (Ermor)
10. Zensei (Tien Chi)
11. Ramshead (Pythium)
12. Lingchih - Marignon
13. Shmonk - Ulm

Pasha

[calmon]

Ano bumped the old thread, i think he's also interested.

Whats up with Jurri?

Wasn't it ironhawk who was late to join in the last game and we promised to ask him before starting a new one? (i'm not sure it was RAND)

I would really like to see a big amount of experienced players in this game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zenzei]

Is this game open to anyone or are the players already selected(the list in the OP)?

[calmon]

I really like the old victory condition. 50% of the capital only VPs. I mean the game was far away for being too long and non-fortified VPs can really lead to a frustrating teleport/cloud trapeze attack win. Do you remember our last RAND game? Fomoria (Micah) had won this far earlier by just sending his blessed trapezing giants to any unprotected VP.
Sure he won anyway but it was decided in the endgame.
This game is without fomoria but pythium/marignon angels or just stupid beaming tartarians aren't much better!

And last but not least... thanks for hosting pasha. You do a really great job! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[PashaDawg]

@ Zenzei: The game is currently full, but I will put you on the waiting list, Zenzei, if that changes.

@ Calmon: Jurri is taking a break for now. Ano was originally going to play, but it's my understanding that he'd rather not play if the CB mod is used. I don't think Ironhawk likes RAND games (it was the Alexander game that he was late for).

Pasha

[Zeldor]

Yeah, just yeah! I just hope I get some decent nation that time, not Atlantis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Hmm... I would be really happy with some resource heavy nation for a change, never really played them.

[PashaDawg]

I am happy with any victory condition, because I am just hosting. We'll got with whatever the majority of players prefers, if there is a clear preference.

VP's in capitals is a good way to go, of course. Or, we could do a % of provinces with no VP's, etc. Whichever.

[Zenzei]

@Pasha: Okay

[Micah]

I'm gonna put in a vote for Cap-VPs. They're important enough provinces that doming them isn't unreasonable once it's late enough in the game where a teleport strike force could happen, and they'll come with a fort unless someone goes crazy with the whole scorched earth thing. Unforted VPs just beg for aerial assault.

A province % would also be fine, though I'd prefer to see a "take and hold for 3 turns" condition with a reasonable % instead of having to set the % artificially high to make a teleport scenario impractical. Obviously this means there would have to be some hand-counting going on since the game ends immediately otherwise.

I like the cap idea best though, it's more fun having actually important provinces to protect instead of just getting hit by 10 ghost riders and teleporting raiders a turn as the whole world tries to keep your prov count down late game =)

[WraithLord]

PashaDawg said:
I am happy with any victory condition, because I am just hosting. We'll got with whatever the majority of players prefers, if there is a clear preference.

VP's in capitals is a good way to go, of course. Or, we could do a % of provinces with no VP's, etc. Whichever.


Would something between 60%-70% controlled provinces work?

[quantum_mechani]

I think that might result in just a different kind of teleport grab. Capital only VPs have their flaws, but I think they are probably still the most reasonable way to go.

EDIT: I also think 160 provinces is fine for 13 players, so I hope we do end up using Rim of Darkness.

[Shmonk]

Same victory conditions as before is fine with me, 50% Capital VPs (7 of 13).

[Zeldor]

Capitol VPs seem fine. I also like the idea of 3 turn hold to make it count, but that is not really necessary with forts...

QM:
12 provs per player?

[DonCorazon]

I vote for a Cap VP game.
They seem to end before getting too bogged down and are more interesting by having critical provinces.

Thanks for organizing this Pasha, especially since you are not even playing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[quantum_mechani]

Zeldor said:


QM:
12 provs per player?

Sounds about right.

[PashaDawg]

12 prov per player is good, but with the round map... somehow it might be hard to fit people in without sticking someone in the middle. It would be better if folk started near the edge.

[Lingchih]

I would vote for capitol VPs.

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

QM has suggested playing on the map from the Dom 2 Shepherds of Creation scenario. I'd be happy to use that map, but it looks like it has a fair about of waste and swamp, which could give certain players a serious disadvantage. What do other players think? Link to map site (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/shepherd.html)

We need a good map for 13 players.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Okay. It looks like most players want a victory condition based on VP's in capitals. How many should be controlled to win the game? 5 out of 13?

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

Nation assignments have been emailed. Remember to keep your national identity strictly confidential unless and until you are defeated.

The nations in the game are:

Abysia
Ashdod
Caelum
C'Tis
Ermor
Jotunheim
Machaka
Marignon
Pythium
R'lyeh
Shinuyama
Tien Chi
Ulm

Thanks.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

So, players know, I believe the latest version of the CB mod is 1.21. Be sure to design your pretenders with the correct mod.

Feel free to email me your pretenders. Please include "RAND" in the subject line so that my email program will send your email to the right folder.

Thanks.

Pasha

[Zeldor]

1 water nation?

[PashaDawg]

Yep. That's because I was expecting to use the Shepards of Creation map that could only fit 1.

If it turns out that players think that 1 water nation is a bad idea, then we could pick a map for land nations, and I will replace the water nation with another land nation.

[calmon]

PashaDawg said:
Okay. It looks like most players want a victory condition based on VP's in capitals. How many should be controlled to win the game? 5 out of 13?



7 out of 13 (50%) is good i think. We had similar in the first game and it wasn't too long.

[WraithLord]

I'm good with Shepherds of Creation.
Just curious how ppl regard any of the following three maps:
1. Glory of the Gods. MP version.
2. The eight gates (connection gates).
3. The all favorite Orania.

My vote goes for 7 capital VPs. In my experience 5 tends to end game preternaturally (for my taste).

[Micah]

7 as well

[DonCorazon]

Fine with 7.

[Amhazair]

I'd just like to check with the experienced crowd (that would be you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) as I've nevered gotten around to using CBM before: I don't suppose any of the magic paths of summonable mages are changed in it? Everything else I can figure out in the game, and I've seen an item forging reference floating around somewhere I can dig up, but I'd rather not face nasty surprises when I summon certain creatures to expand my magical diversity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: I'm fine with 7 too.

[quantum_mechani]

Amhazair said:
I'd just like to check with the experienced crowd (that would be you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) as I've nevered gotten around to using CBM before: I don't suppose any of the magic paths of summonable mages are changed in it? Everything else I can figure out in the game, and I've seen an item forging reference floating around somewhere I can dig up, but I'd rather not face nasty surprises when I summon certain creatures to expand my magical diversity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: I'm fine with 7 too.

Nope, I have made an effort to not change magic skills of any mages. I also have not made any items harder to forge, only easier, to avoid 'why can't I forge X' problems. Probably 90% of all changes are simply making things cheaper.

Also: 7 sounds good to me.

[PashaDawg]

Okay. Sounds like 7 is the magic number for victory!

If folks aren't strongly against the Shepards of Creation map, then I will look into tweaking it for staring positions. Just no one can whine about their starting position.

[Micah]

But Pasha, who would do such a thing? =)

[Lingchih]

Shepherds of Creation is a nice map. Never played it before, but it's easy on the eyes.

I'm a big fan of Parganos myself, but it's too small for this game.

[quantum_mechani]

Just a reminder for those unfamiliar with CB, the magic scale is much more important than in base game. I'd hate to see someone totally crippled by not realizing it is back to Dom2 levels.

[coobe]

where do i get the map again ?

[PashaDawg]

The map is here: Map site (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/shepherd.html)

[Edratman]

I'm not playing, so you might think this impertinent, but why is renaming off?

I'm a SP but I'll rename mages who pick up a random so I can find them, rename my scouts to "scout" because the sprite is too similar to that indy N mage, etc. This makes things easier for me, so why don't you allow renaming in MP?

[coobe]

normally it is allowed, but since we want to keep the nation assignment hidden and diplomacy turned off, it makes more sense not to rename

[Edratman]

Thanks.

[PashaDawg]

Yeah. Renaming is off to make sure that no one accidentally reveals his/her I.D. by using a quirky naming style.

[PashaDawg]

Just waiting on a few players to submit pretenders. I sent out an email about it. Looks like we'll start on Thursday.

[moderation]

coobe said:
normally it is allowed, but since we want to keep the nation assignment hidden and diplomacy turned off, it makes more sense not to rename



Hmm, I don't quite understand... how is having renaming off more important with no diplomacy and hidden nations? Is it to prevent people from changing the name of units to mind hunt with perhaps?

I ask this because I'm a heavy user of renaming my mages after my random picks. Otherwise the micromanagement becomes so much more work, but I suppose I could live with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

edit: Oh i see now. Perhaps I gave my style away, but I have a feeling a lot of people rename their mages after random picks don't they? I suppose we could all adopt the same style, though perhaps that would be too weird for some people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[quantum_mechani]

It's exactly for the reason of renaming things like random picks- some players do, others don't, it's a pretty large hint.

Also, every time someone renames a mage to his random picks, it makes KO cry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[moderation]

This is why the game needs a private 'notes' field where we can scribble what we like while keeping it secret from others. Like that will ever happen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

Why does this make KO cry? If it makes him cry, he should add in a feature to display a mage's random picks more prominently. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Lingchih]

I usually don't rename mine, for thematic reasons, but sometimes I will rename a particularly good random pick mage, so I don't lose track of him. I don't go all the way on the name though, I'll just do HorzaN4, or something like that.

There. Now you know my naming style. Good thing we are not renaming.

[Micah]

I just give em a gem for marking purposes. No way I'm letting someone else see what paths I have without a battle.

[Lingchih]

Actually, Micah, it would take a battle for the enemy to know your mages names, would it not? And then they know all about them anyway.

[coobe]

bad news... i have to leave home for 2days so i wont be able to get my first turns in. maybe its best if you look for a permanent replacement, since i dont know if i can handle the 24 hour schedule early on. of course ill keep my nation secret

sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif was really looking forward to this

[PashaDawg]

Sorry to hear that Coobe. Perhaps, Zensai will take your slot.

[PashaDawg]

Ok. Zensei has agreed to take Coobe's place. I will give him a little time to submit a pretender. Hopefully, we can start on Friday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 1 is out.

Deadline is Saturday night at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Have fun! Keep your nation assignments secret! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Sorry ... needed to restart because I used someone's wrong pretender. So, turn 1 has been send a second time.

[Amhazair]

Hurray!

Good luck all. Thanks for hosting Pasha.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 2 is out. Deadline is Sunday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 3 is out. Deadline is Monday night.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 4 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 5 is out.

Deadline is Wednesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 6 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 7 is out.

Deadline is Friday night.

Pashadawg

[PashaDawg]

Turn 8 is out.

Deadline is Saturday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 9 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night at 9 pm Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 10 is out. Deadline is Monday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 11 is out. Deadline is Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 13 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 14 is out (last night).

Deadline is Wednesday (today).

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 15 is out, which is due on Sunday.

We are now switching to the 3-turn per week schedule (Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday).

By the way, I am going to a conference next week (Tuesday through Sunday), and I won't be available to host the turns while I am away. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

So, it will host again tomorrow (Thursday), then not again until Sunday?

[RamsHead]

No, turn 15 will be due on Sunday. The reason being that once we hit turn 15, we are supposed to have more time to do our turns. Making the turn due on Thursday would give us only the same amount of time we have had, so the due date is moved back to Sunday on the Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday schedule.

Pashadawg will not be able to host our turns next week from Tuesday until Sunday (because he is a member of the Skull and Crossbones or something), so turn 16 probably will not be due until the following Sunday.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 16 is out.

Turns will be due on Sunday, because I will be away until then.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

So, who was Caelum the deceased?

[DonCorazon]

Me.

[Lingchih]

Salud, DonCorazon. Better luck next time.

[DonCorazon]

Thanks, have fun.

[PashaDawg]

Thanks for playing DonCorazon.

Turn 17 is out. Deadline is Tuesday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 18 went out last night.

Turns are due on Thursday.

Pasha

[Kristoffer O]

Hi,

How nice of you to play on the shepherds map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I had all but forgotten about it. I have not thought about maps in a while. I think I might work a bit on the never-map today.

I'm quite fond of the RAND concept. I think I might be interested in a Rand game later on. Please let me know if on starts.

Also nice of you to play without renaming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Hi KO:

You're certainly welcome to join the next one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It was QM's idea to play with the map.

Renaming-off is essential for RAND to avoid inadvertent ID disclosures with idiosyncratic renaming conventions.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 19 is out.

Deadline is Sunday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 20 is out. I'd like to keep the game moving. So, let's have the deadline for this turn on Tuesday, even though the turn was hosted late.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 22 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 23 is out. Deadline is Tuesday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 24 is out.

Deadline is Friday instead of Thursday, due to the delay.

Pasha

[Micah]

Well, I'm out, stupid bloodhenge druids.

[PashaDawg]

Micah is gone!

Thanks for playing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Turn 25 is out. Let's try for the Sunday deadline to keep the game going. However, if that's too tight, then we can wait to host the turn on Tuesday.

Pasha

[WraithLord]

Is the current delay planned for?

[Lingchih]

I believe the turn is delayed until tonite, since 4 players did not have their turn in Sunday night.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 26 is out.

Deadline is Thursday.

[calmon]

@WraithLord
I don't think pasha accepts any other turnfile besides the already sent turns.

However i'm also a little bit annoyed! I just finished (and sent) my new turn in the same minute pasha wrote his message.

I plead to all players to deliver the turn file on hosting date some time before time limit. Sure there may be important reasons for a postponement which is ok! But in moment i can't remember a turn we got on host day!

Please do your best to help pasha for a smoothly hosting!

Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

That's great. What's not so great is that I've already completed and sent the turn before Pasha's mail.

[PashaDawg]

The rehosted Turn 26 is out.

Deadline is Friday night due to the delay. Sorry for the fuss & bother.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 27 is out.

Deadline is Sunday.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

And let us pray that we make the deadline this time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

Hi,

I'm not feeling well and will need to spend a few days in the hospital.
Can we please postpone hosting for three days?

TIA,
WL

[WraithLord]

Ahmm, a small (well not so small for me actually) update. I was just released from the hospital :) and pending more analysis may or may not need to return in the next few days. Nothing major though - probably some type of CMV or other similar virus that has my medics concerned. Anyway, for now I'm back home and can take my turns as usual.

[PashaDawg]

EEEK!! I hope you stay well! :)

[PashaDawg]

Turn 29 is out. Deadline is Thursday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

Sorry for not getting turn 30 out on Friday. Social life got in the way. :D

In any case, if players are eager, I can host on Sunday night. Otherwise, we can wait until Monday or Tuesday.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

Tuesday afternoon. Reminds of the Moody Blues song. Laid back, much as this game is.

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

Turn 31 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 32 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night.

[PashaDawg]

Next turn is out.

Due to the delay, let's have turns due on Thursday so no one is rushed.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Next turn is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night, because I will be away for a long weekend.

Pasha

[WraithLord]

Since some time has passed since 3.20 is out and no issues were reported and since llamaserver (which I assume most players here participate in one or more game there) has already upgraded to 3.20, well since all of the above I suggest to upgrade to 3.20 as early next turn.

Or maybe this reasoning is obvious, in that case forget I ever said anything.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 35 is out.

Deadline is Friday, due to the delay.

By the way, I have patched to 3.20.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 36 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 37 is out. Deadline is Thursday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

C'Tis has been turned AI. It was played by Quantum Mechani with Baalz taking over near the end.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 39 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night (if possible). If that's too short a time period, then the deadline will be Thursday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

I am still looking for a replacement. Hopefully, I will find one by tomorrow (Sunday).

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 40 is out.

Ermor is now AI. It was started by Zeldor and taken over by Anticipatient.

Deadline for turns is Thursday.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

Who was Machaka?

[Zeldor]

Pasha:

Huh, I was sure you'd find a sub for anti. I could play Ermor for some time now, but as I said, I prefered you find someone else. And I really didn't think that Ermor will survive long when I was leaving.

[PashaDawg]

Machaka was played by Moderation.

Zeldor: Sorry. I had figured that you were substantially disinterested in playing Ermor any further.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 41 is out.

Deadline is Sunday.

[Lingchih]

Wow, what a clash. It happened in 41, and please don't tell me I am breaking the rules. Most everyone had a scout in there, and there was at least one Astral Window in there. That was a hell of a battle. One of the best I have ever seen. Someone should archive that one.

[PashaDawg]

I have backups of each game turn. :D

[PashaDawg]

Turn 42 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday.

[Lingchih]

Is this game paused?

[WraithLord]

Was wondering what's going on with the game. Its been a while since it has last hosted.

[PashaDawg]

Sorry. I was waiting on Pythium. Turn 43 is out.

Pythium has now gone AI. It was played by Ramshead.

Deadline for turns will be Sunday.

Thanks. Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 44 is out.

Deadline will be Thursday due to the delay.

Pasha

[WraithLord]

Is the game on hold?

[PashaDawg]

No. Today is thursday. My last post said that I would host today to give players time due to the late hosting earlier in the week. :)

[PashaDawg]

Next turn is out.

Because of the delay, let's have the next turn due on Tuesday.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

Jotunheim is, I believe, dead, for all intents and purposes.

[PashaDawg]

Jotunheim was played by Amhazair.

Turn 46 is out. Deadline is FRIDAY, due to the delay.

Pasha

[Amhazair]

Jotunheim is, I believe, dead, for all intents and purposes.
Indeed. Totally dead. :(

[PashaDawg]

Thanks for playing Amhazair!

Turn 47 is out. Deadline is Monday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 48 went out yesterday.

Deadline is Thursday.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

When we are down to the final four players, shall we reveal who we are? Just a question... I don't care much either way. I think we all have a pretty good idea anyway,

[Lingchih]

Sorry for the above post. Of course we must not reveal ourselves yet.
BTW, are we on hold?

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

Sorry, I went to a conference and forgot to host the game before leaving on Thursday.

Turn 49 is out. To give players enough time due to the later hosting, let's have turns due on Tuesday.

Pasha

[WraithLord]

So does that mean hosting tonight?

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

Turn 50 is out.

To give players enough time, turns will be due on Friday instead of Thursday due to the late hosting.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

Turn 51 is out.

A player requested a slightly longer period of time to play turns. So, the turn will be due on Tuesday instead of Sunday.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday,
Who could put a name on you?

I thought we were hosting this night. Pasha, wake up.

Old Rolling Stones song, If one did not know it.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 52 is out. I was waiting for a player turn.

Deadline is Friday.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 53 is out.

To give players time to submit their turns, let's have the turn due on Wednesday instead of Tuesday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Should we upgrade this game to the new patch?

In any case, I will have both patched and unpatched versions of the game on my machine.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

Sure. My other games are all getting upgraded. I hate to keep two versions on the machine because I invariable screw up and use the wrong one at least once.

[WraithLord]

upgrade please.

[calmon]

Yep upgrade is fine!

[Lingchih]

I've already upgraded for my other games (though I sent this turn in under the old 3.20). So I hope we upgrade, or I am screwed.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 54 is out.

The game has been patched.

Deadline is SUNDAY.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 55 is out.

ASHDOD WINS!! Congratulations, Calmon! Excellent playing. :up:

Players are now free discuss the game as they please.

Pasha

[Lingchih]

Good Game Calmon

-Marignon

[quantum_mechani]

Congrats Calmon!

I'm sorry I didn't have the free time to finish playing this one to the bitter end, it had some fun moments.

C'tis was stuck in a pretty tough spot- very little gold income and some very tough neighbors. I was hoping the miasma would keep people at bay but alas that didn't scare R'yleh much. I spent most the first part of the game trying to pick an opportune time to make a move on Pythium... which was going great for the few turns before the R'yleh invasion. I then switched tactics to scorched earth but I had gotten very busy so handed it off to Baalz shortly after.

Anyway, I'd love to here other perspectives on the game (especially Aby/Pyth/Ryleh). Also- all my guesses on which player were which nations were way off, except I guessed Calmon was R'yleh or Ashdod.

[atul]

Good game, congrats god Calmon.

I was playing R'lyeh.

I had it easy in the beginning, and guess got a bit overconfident which led to my downfall. Initial expansion had given me plenty of room in the rich center, with TC to south, C'tis to north and Ashdod to east. At that point I'd have liked to attack big A already, but was more than afraid to cut the map into two halves. Hence when I noticed C'tis attacking Pythium, I decided it was time to grab their lands. The fighting got a bit too extended, and by the time it ended most of the nations in north had gone AI for neighbours to grab.

As to Miasma, well, I had Const8 long before anyone else, but guess who got lazy and just slowly forged boosters in order to get Chalice instead of rushing there. So, (probably) Ashdod beat me to most of the items. Doh.

Dunno how that should have been played out, no-diplo is really a problem when you can clearly see the top dog is in most difficult-to-attack place for you. :p

But, thanks for the game!

[WraithLord]

Congrats Calmon, you scored one for the hebrew gods :)


I played Abysia and had a horrible game.
First I chose "thematic" scales for Aby, D3,T3,L3 after reading Baalz's thread about the merits of T3,L3 and considering and testing this setup (in tests it worked nicely since I got lots of gold events).
In the actual game these scaled proved to be Aby's downfall. I had literally no gold income, I couldn't recruit armies and mages, couldn't build castles. Then I was attacked by Pythium who by all rights should have made quick work of me -- except that he didn't, I'm not sure how and with what exactly but I managed to drive his forces away and conquer his capital (This one with Ctis help, now attacking Pythium as well).

It was obvious to me that A- Ashdod will win and that B- I could do nothing about it. Now I do think the outcome could have been different had Pythium not attacked me, Ctis not attacked Pythium, R'lyeh not attacked Ctis and instead all would have dog piled on Ashdod (Including, TC, Ulm and Marig). Actually I was kind of expecting the dog piling to happen, except that it didn't and as I came to understand that it won't happen so I realized that Ashdod wins. I had also guessed Calmon is playing Ashdod :)

MA Abysia was ruined by old age mechanics and the "thematic" D3 scale doesn't help much (since its counter to what Aby needs). What a shame, this was once a solid nation.

[WraithLord]

Hey guys, check out the battle at 128. I managed a single victory against Ashdod and I think its worth watching :D

[DonCorazon]

Just curious - how did you guess it was calmon other than the fact he was winning? While the sad story of Caelum is best left unmentioned, it was basically a lesson in why I should have taken an awake SC pretender instead of a rainbow when diplomacy is not an option. Sandwiched between a dual Ashdod and Jotunheim rush IIRC - it ended before it even started. Hehe, thanks Pasha. :)

Congrats Calmon!

[WraithLord]

Intuition I guess, but I had this strong feeling that Calmon is leading Ashdod for a long time.

[Lingchih]

I was neighbors with Ashdod the entire game. We never came to blows until the next to last turn, when he beat my Angels sieging the Ermor cap. That was the cap that won him the game.

In retropsect, I guess I should have attacked Ashdod, but Machaka and Ermor were seemingly such easy targets. I lost a lot of troops to Fundikira, and my Cylcops got killed and horribly afflicted fighting him.

[WraithLord]

I have learned from bitter experience that in RAND games, when there is a top dog and you see a weak target, you need to resist the temptation and attack the top dog . Blindly, no questions asked no expectation made (of other nations to join).

I was TC in previous RAND, had a solid position, could have made a move to stop Micah, but instead I attacked what I thought was a weak target (Jomon or Yomi) and thus did a double wrong, for not only did I not help stop Micah - I had also prevented my target from doing that.

Same in this game. Had Pythium not attacked me, I could have been in a much stronger position to help against Ashdod. Pythium, alive, would have made a great difference what with his astral dominance. He could have MHed most of Ashdod's teleporting SCs. Now, I did my best to convey to Pythium that I don't want to fight him. At first when he attacked me I didn't retaliate, I let him capture and keep my provinces in hopes that he'll understand that the greater threat was Ashdod but he kept attacking (probably took my reaction as a sign of weakness) and after sometime I had to respond which led to a bitter war that spent both of us (me coming victories wasn't such a blessing since by then I was depleted).
Also, had R'lyeh not attacked Ctis and instead attacked Ashdod the smaller neighbors of Ashdod (Ulm, TC) might have had more courage in joining the attack and so on and so forth.

But that's all part of the fun in RAND, Its much more a practice in psychology than the diplomacy games. Bottom line, ppl were either afraid to attack Ashdod, or they had chosen weaker targets instead, or couldn't do nothing about it since were chosen as said weaker targets (like Aby who got jumped by Pythium).

[Zeldor]

WraithLord:

You should have attacked my Ermor early on. I lost my whole initial army to you. You had heat aura troops and I had F9 bles for my vestals. Your troops owned my vestals and I think it was really big mistake on your side not to pursue. I don't know what I'd have to do to stop you.

I had so many bad things happen to me that I launched suicide attack on Machaka, which turned much better than I expected [but spider webs own ethereality], but then came Marignon and mopped everything :)

[WraithLord]

:lol

The army that beat you was my starting and only army :)
I had no gold with which to even recruit more units. I didn't know whether or not you has an awake SC (unlikely seeing your bless but possible nonetheless). I was in truth dismayed by my horrible economy and hence switched to an extra timid modus operandi.

[Zeldor]

I almost panicked when I lost my army there, I expected your invasion to be imminent, considering that situation. Huh :P What a lame part of the world :D

[atul]

Also, had R'lyeh not attacked Ctis and instead attacked Ashdod the smaller neighbors of Ashdod (Ulm, TC) might have had more courage in joining the attack and so on and so forth.

Assuming total knowledge of geography and easy access to everywhere. At the point I could've attacked Ashdod TC (for example) could have done the same only through me. So it was a move that most probably would have resulted in me being pushed into the sea, TC fighting Ashdod in my former lands and C'tis growing vast on my northern border. In the long run it might've been the right thing to do but it would have also meant that I'd be out of the game for leader position.

I hoped TC would have seen me attacking in other direction and thus become confident enough to go against Ulm et al and in the end Ashdod, but it really seemed that the nations in the west were locked into a stalemate staring at each other angrily until Ashdod came in and wiped the board.

Heh, hindsight is fun. :p

[WraithLord]

I think the nations were missing a leader, I know I was expecting you to take that role :)

Most of the game you were in the leading position with Ashdod and when he cast the FotA and started growing exponentially I was sure you'd confront him. What would have bought time for Marignon to wipe off Ermor (And secure his VP) and for me to recover from my losses and setback caused by war with Pythium.

I am confident that had Abysia been given 4-5 more turns to summon forge and research it could have made some difference. I had huge stockpiles of gems and was just bootstrapping my summon/forge/research machine as evident by the battle at 128. Of course this was not meant to happen :)

[atul]

Heh, anyone who's played with me can tell you I need a kick into pants to start any sort of leading business. With this no-names-don't-ask-don't-tell regulation no kicking and thus no leading. ;)

I was really hurting for income (R'lyeh upkeep is nuts) and gems that I just didn't find any of, guess my major motivation was not to go into a war where I didn't know for certain whether I'd get anything out of. My bad, can't promise it won't happen again.

[calmon]

Thanks all! :)

I really like the RAND games! Its a lot of fun to set/understand the signs in a correct way.

Ashdod was the nation i got and i've to say its a really strong one. Like other giant races you can easely play with imprissoned pretender, fair bless, really good scales and nonetheless get a very good early expansion. With early wizards and some later animists i got access into all categories of sitesearching (besides blood).

I really like the adon, 3 misc slots + magic diversity (some can use teleport). This capital only commanders + fire/air royality were my only SCs in the game. I build them nearly from the start on (+ some talmai elder) with the plan to equip them later.

With my globals up and after r'lyeh decided to attack c'tis i was quite happy to have the whole north in war.

This gave me the chance to act by myself by attacking the peaceful south in form of niefelheim. I luckily didn't share a border to the research strong TC at this time. Instead ulm reacted and attacked me with some smaller forces. Because i was really happy with TC's position in the corner only neighboured with ulm and r'lyeh i decided not to go into ulmish lands and just killed his expanding troops.

Maybe TC tried to get a border with me or just wanted more lands, however he decided to go in war with ulm. This leads to a war between both without my presence. I just cast some damaging army spells against TC to slow him down.

This was the perferct time to attack r'lyeh...

[PashaDawg]

I have backups of all turns, in case anybody wants some with the master password. :)

[Shmonk]

Great game, calmon. I was Ulm, stuck between Jotunheim and TC. When I saw you take on the giants I figured I'd try to grab some of the territory you were taking of his, but as soon as I did I was attacked by TC. I was just prolonging my downfall to TC the last 10-15 turns, or I would have tried to go at you... and get defeated easily, I was not prepared for a battle against Ashdod.

Gotta love RAND games, thanks for hosting Pasha!!

[Lingchih]

I have backups of all turns, in case anybody wants some with the master password. :)

Umm, please don't share any that show Mari's Cyclops' battles against the Machakan Fetish pretender. Those are kind of embarrasing. ;)

[WraithLord]

Pasha, I would much like to see the turns. Can you please send some to me?

[Amhazair]

I was dealt Jotunheim for this game, and for the first time ever in my dominions career I went for a heavy bless strategy. (Though even now I went with E9/N8 over dual 9's in favor of squeezing 3S on my pretender in order to be able to eventually forge the rings with boosters. Due to circumstances I never even got around to forging them, but I still think that in order to actually challenge for the win - as opposed to just hang around in early game and then slowly peter out - the S was worth it. )

Expansion with blessed giants was a breeze, and I was right along with the leading nations early on. When expanding towards the richer middle part of the map though, I started to get worried about leaving my flanks unguarded, and when I noticed that Caelum was completely surrounded by me and Gath, leaving them with no way out except through one of us, I decided to attack them, slowing down my expansion in the middle. Looking back this probably was a mistake, and by the time I looked to resume my expansion again Ashdod had me surounded.

So I was then faced with the choice between attacking Ulm, (who I thought I should be able to beat, but only with difficulty) turning my back on the already powerful Ashdod, or attacking Ashdod (who I knew to be stronger than me) in the hope that his other neighbours had also identified the threat and would join me against him.

Not having much faith in my fellow men - and shortly afterwards starting to see many other nations at war with each other - I instead sat around twiddling my thumbs, seeing my early game advantage quickly disappear. I did keep watching for the slightest sign of others gathering forces to attack Ashdod, ready to throw my full weight at them too, but didn't see anything of the kind untill Ashdod attacked me, conquering every single one of my provinces in one single turn, leaving me with nothing more than a last stand or two in my castles, which I organised as well as I could, but didn't really hurt him badly. (even though I managed to win one)

So, very well done Calmon. Even though I had my full attention focused on you from the beginning of the game, I never even managed to be a speed bump. Nice play.

Pasha thanks once more for the smooth hosting, it was a pleasure, as it was the last time.

A final word on the map: It felt really weird, having two enemy capitals so close by on either side, while at the same time having enormous amounts of space to expand towards in the middle. While certainly not a 'standard' setup, I kinda liked the change of pace of having to mentally juggle beween expanding as far as possible and not leaving your flanks uncovered. Even though I probably didn't deal with it as well as I could have.

[DonCorazon]

Expansion with blessed giants was a breeze...when I noticed that Caelum was completely surrounded by me and Gath, leaving them with no way out except through one of us, I decided to attack them, ...

Oh the inhumanity!!!!
:)

[WraithLord]

Pasha, thanks again for hosting this game. You know, your RAND games are actually my favorite and I'm really looking forward to them, but I hope the next one will be after asia twist since this poor slob would hate to miss it.
I don't want to nag or something but I'd really like to see the game turns. Thanks! Sorry. For I did nag.

Amhazair, you know we are very alike in respect to bless strat -- I have never used a bless strat. in MP. Its not that I have something against bless strat. but b/c everyone uses them I kinda prefer to "work" harder coming up with non bless game plans. I guess sometime I'll break my personal record and use a heavy bless and by then I'd probably go for crap scales and triple bless :D

[PashaDawg]

I will plan to host another RAND game in a few months. :) Of course, others are welcome to host them, too, if someone cannot wait.

Wraith: turns sent!

Pasha

[Lingchih]

If you plan to host another one Pasha, I hope you invite me to again play in it. This was one of the most interesting games I have played, and I think I learned quite a lot from it.

Thanks for hosting, and everyone, beware of Ashdod. Not that Calmon did not play an awesome game... he did. But they do seem overpowered to me. After all, every other nation in this game quailed at attacking them. That does say something about the power of Ashdod.

[WraithLord]

The northern nations didn't quail at attacking Marignon. They were too busy spending each other. When the north started all these little wars Ashdod was yet to be in such a leading position. Abysia would have attacked Ashdod w/o a second thought had the war with Pythium coupled with its terrible scales not put it in an ineffectual position.

That of course doesn't change the fact that Ashdod is very strong. Some toning down may indeed be required.

[Zeldor]

I just hope Pasha uses a bit bigger map next time :) I don't like huge crowds...

[WraithLord]

I have watched the replays. Turn 40 was the turning point. Ashdod really took all of Jotun's lands in one turn.

The significance of this occurrence was apparently lost on Ashdod's neighbors.

Nice play Calmon, you made the right calls all along the way.

[Zenzei]

Congrats to Calmon from me aswell, very well played. :up:

I was TC in this game and I must say it really wasn't my kind of nation. All their stuff was just way to much all over the place and I felt they didn't have good access to anything good, most notably thug chassises. Flaming arrows/arrow fend was the only solid strategy I could figure out for them but I did the fatal mistake of taking sloth 3 scale and thus accumulating any meaningful force took more time than forever. I reckon TC is potentially monstrous with all their magic diversity but I prefer nations with more focus.

As for game turning point, I felt it was when Ashdod cast the gem globals in consecutive turns and nobody was able to anything about it in form of dispelling or attacking.

Thanks to Pasha for excellent hosting and I really liked the RAND game concept, it was awesome to just play for a change. I would certainly be willing to participate this sort of game again sometime.

[calmon]

Time for a LA RAND, isn't it?

[PashaDawg]

Hi Calmon:

Maybe! I could start organizing it.

Pasha

[calmon]

That would be great pasha! :)