Andean Zorro - MA/diff_research/VPs - game started

[Omnirizon]

Game: Andean Zorro
Admin: Omnirizon
Server: llamaserver
Map: Cradle
Era: Middle Age
Players: 10

Indies: 7
Special Sites: 50
Money/Resource/Supply: 100
Randoms: common
Scores: on
HoF: 10
Research: difficult
Victory: VP (half of capitals)
Cheats: no using the cheap battlefield spell combos (can't recall them off the top of my head, but I will spell them out if necessary; most people should know what they are and know better any way.)

Mods: Worthy Heroes (no CBM)


Players:

Omni - Shinuyama
Calahan - Pangaea
BigDisAwesome - Ashdod
Niarg - R'Lyeh
Dragar - Abysia
Kheldon - Caeleum
Cerlin - Eriu
Janim - Marignon
DonCorazon - Pythium
Anticipatient - Ermor


Welcome to the debut game for the Zorro series!

Zorros are 'false foxes' native only to S. America. They
come from the genus Lycalopex (also known as Pseudalopex),
as opposed to the genus Vulpes who are considered the
'true' foxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudalopex

The concept for this series will be to make magic a more
defining characteristic for players throughout the game.
Thus, players cannot depend on just researching everything
by almost turn 60. Rather, players will have to pick and
choose magic, either specializing in one or two schools,
and dabbling in others, or being a jack-of-all-paths and
getting midway into most of them.

To accomplish this concept, VP victory will be used (as
that somewhat limits how long a game can last) with
difficult research (to slow down research, obviously). The
idea is to come up with a either a cumulative or percentage
of VP balance that makes games last only long enough for
players to be able to access and use the upper levels (8+)
of only one or two magic paths, or mid-levels (4-5) of most
of them.

This will make magic a more defining characteristic.
Players will have to think more about what paths they want
to use, because ideally they will only be able to really
get into one or two of them and be able to use them before
the game ends. Conj+Const for SCs? Evo+Alt for
Battlefield? Ench+Thau for Rituals? or maybe some other
combination.

This game will be Andean Zorro, also known as the Culpeo.
It is most commonly found on the western slopes of the
Andes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpeo

[JimMorrison]

Zorro! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Sorry, I couldn't resist. >.> I'm in too many games to pick up another one just yet, but I wanted to pop in and say "cool stuff!". And to suggest maybe your concept might work well with sites bumped to 50 or something. Just a thought!

[Omnirizon]

thanks for the suggestion. with players held to the less efficient lower level magic a bit more, higher sites might make great sense.

if there's support for such a change, we can of course do it.

[Calahan]

Count me in. I'll take Pangaea please.

Indies - 7 (Yes Yes!)
Map - Cradle (any map is fine by me)
Score Graphs - On (think graphs off and cumulative VP's might allow a nation to win without other nations even knowing about it)
Cumulative VP Formula - Your suggested formula seems ok, although I would add that with that many VP points available, that the required VP should be set to maximum (can't remember if that's 50 or 60?)

[BigDisAwesome]

I think I'll join this one. I'd love to try out the new nation Ashdod. Looks like I have some research to do on them now.

[BigDisAwesome]

Oh and I'm up for just about any game setting. Although I think VP's should exist in capitols. Makes it less of a rush to the VP's.

[Niarg]

I agree with the VPs in capitals, although it does mean that everyone knows the starting positions.

I'll take R'Lyeh
Map: depends on number of players.
Indies: 5-7
Graphs: Off
Victory when one player controls half the capitals.

[Kojusoki]

when are you going to start?

[Omnirizon]

we will start whenever we have at least eight players and people think we have enough players.

also, is there any support for using CBM? I'd like to, but we can put it to vote.

[BigDisAwesome]

I'd rather not. It's not that I have something against it, but I don't want to have to relearn stats or spells.

[Kheldron]

I'd like to be in as Machaka

I'd much rather have CBM as it allows for interesting things with low-level magic in comparison with vanilla. Besides it screws most of the spoiler combos and allows for a better balanced game

IMO Graphs on because as was said a player could win without anyone knowing if it were off

indy 7 fine by me

HoF 10 if there are only 8 players, 15 if 10 or more

[Ershalim]

I'd love to play as C'tis, if you don't mind a noob mucking around. =)

Nation: C'tis
Map: Any's fine with me
Indies: 7
Graphs: Off
Victory: when one player controls half the capitals.
CBM: No

[Calahan]

I'd be happy playing with score graphs off, but only if the VP conditions are that a player needs to control over 50% of capitals (not cumulative) as mentioned by others. As I don't think it's possible then for a nation to become big enough to win without everyone else knowing about it. Although downside then is the obvious one of all starting locations being marked, which will help the early rushers. Anyone know of a way to avoid capitals being marked, yet still have control >50% of capitals as the winning condition? or is that being too hopeful?

I'd also vote no for CBM. I prefer to play my Dominions as God / illwinter intended.

And HoF 10 if less than ten nations, and HoF 15 if over ten nations makes sense to me.

[Niarg]

I'd prefer not to use CBM.

As for the VPs we could always report in this thread whenever someone takes a capital and keep track of it manually.

[BigDisAwesome]

Yeah, we could just not use VP's in the map. But let it be known that when you control X amount of capitols for X amount of turns, you win.

Or we could always just say if someone controls X% of total provinces, they win. Puts less of an emphasis on capitols and more so on steady even growth.

[Dragar]

I'm keen to play as Abysia if you'll have me, not fussed on the preferences

[Kheldron]

I think I'm finally going to take Caelum instead of Machaka.

[Omnirizon]

The point with using VPs is to purposefully somewhat limit the length of the game. A simple percentage of provinces can drag on for over 90 turns, and it is not fun to manage 40% of 300+ provinces. VPs, and especially cumulative VPs, can be used to set a timer on the game, and make it a little less "thick"; preventing the drag of having to ever manage massive empires.

Ideally, the goal should be a game between 60-90 turns. Preferably closer to 60. With around 8 players, the origial VP formula I posted basically _can't_ last longer than 90 turns (even if everybody sat around, they'd accumulate enough VPs by then). I figure with people wrangling over the VP provinces and capitals, that formula should place the game at 60-90 turns.

[Omnirizon]

we still have a couple of spots open, sign up now.

looks like votes are leaning towards:

CBM off
graphs off
VP's 50% of capitols

it could still go either way with remaining votes. please pick a nation and vote on CBM, graphs, and whether you prefer percentage or cumulative VPs.

[Dragar]

i vote no to CBM, yes to graphs

[Cerlin]

I would like to play. I would be Eriu. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The Irish ninja's

[Cerlin]

I would vote yes for VP on half the captials.

And Cradle is fine if we have under 10 people.

Scales are good off and I dont like CBM but maybe worthy heroes?

Indies I would prefer 5-6

And definitely NON cumulative VP

[Omnirizon]

c'mon!

one more person and we can start!
(unless ppl want to hold out for more than eight; i'd rather get started though).

I've decided to go with Shinuyama. they look like something fun to play, and I kinda like their theme; makes me think of Ninja Scroll (its the ONLY anime I like; swear).

[StrictlyRockers]

I'd like to play Arco, please.

Nation: Arcosephale
Map: I like the Dawn of Dominions map
Indies: 7
Graphs: On
Victory: Victory Points as expressed in first post
CBM: No!

[Janlm]

is there room for more?

[Omnirizon]

Janim,

there is room for a couple more. pick a nation and post on any preferences for settings; specifically map, graphs, CBM, and victory (cumulative or percentage VPs).

I'll give it till the end of the day to see if anybody else joins up. we'll take at most one more, then close; and if nobody else shows up by tonight, we'll roll with this nine.

start getting pretenders ready, this train is going to be moving soon.

[Omnirizon]

Here's how votes are looking:

Map is Cradle

Graphs are still a toss up (with four yay and nay). BigDisAwesome and Janim haven't voted on this yet though.

CBM is overwhelmingly no

Victory is looking like half of capitals (with four caps, three cumulative). Kheldron, Dragar, and Janim have not cast votes on this.

among those voting, there's a little more support for Indies 7 than lower numbers.

a couple of ppl have expressed HoF = 10 for < 10 players. Unless anybody objects, I will go with this.

also, please note sites are set at 50; quite a bit higher than default for MA. I'm guessing this is fine with everybody, as no one has said a word about it, but I wanted to bring it to everyone's attention.

[Janlm]

i'll pick marignon

[DonCorazon]

Omni, I love the VP and tougher research idea so would like to join if there is still space. If so, I'd like to try Pythium. My vote would be for CBM (though sounds like I'll lose that one). No strong opinion as to the other options.

[Dragar]

I vote for half capitals and indies 7, looking forward to this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Omnirizon]

alright DC. your on board and this game is now closed. I'll send llama an email and let him know we're ready. start making pretenders.

unless Janim AND DonC vote otherwise, it looks like VPs are in capitols only, and 50% of them to win. I've never played with VPs before (only read they do limit game length a bit), so we'll see how this works out.

we still need a tie breaker on graphs. if DC or Janim don't pick one way or the other; then they may just get left off.

CBM is off, Indies are 7, HoF is 10, sites 50, and map is Cradle.

[DonCorazon]

Since it is a VP game, I guess I'd prefer Graphs On to make it a bit more challenging.

[Kojusoki]

if its not too late, id like to take Machaka...

[Omnirizon]

sorry Kojusoki,

We've reached the limit for the map we're using, and I've already sent llamabeast our game settings and number of players.

If one of our signed up players ends up being a no show, I will PM you.

[Ironhawk]

Just FYI, after playing many VP games, I can tell you that 50% of VPs is too high - Especially on a big map. It seems like you are trying to shoot for research and victory settings which will prevent researching all paths. But your game will drag on forever with a VP setting that high.

I know it sounds low, but 30-40% of cap VPs is usually about as much as any player can manage in a reasonable amount of time.

[DonCorazon]

I agree with Ironhawk. I had forgotten the VP ratios I have used in the past but now that I recall, 30% is about right. It worked well in Epotara, http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=562844&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=1&vc=1, which ended around turn 60 or so and was a nice-paced game.

[Omnirizon]

thanks ironhawk,

I was thinking around 40% would be more reasonable for my goals, but having never played VPs, was just going to roll with 50% since it was suggested. This game is kind of an experimental one to gauge the balance of the settings anyway.

Is 40% a good compromise? Or are people hard on 50%?

Since we are using capitals as VPs, and tracking them manually in the forum, it isn't an issue to switch this up at anytime. If someone reaches 40%, and people want to push on, we can up it to 50%, or even just call the "official victor" then, but go ahead and continue the game to standard victory; just for fun.

[BigDisAwesome]

Either way works for me. I was just supplying ideas with my posts before.

[Cerlin]

40% is good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif especially with hard research.
I agree with DC too that it is really important to have graphs with VP's so you can try to prevent the win.

[StrictlyRockers]

I'm looking forward to getting this one rolling.

[llamabeast]

The game is set up, by the way, so you can send in your pretenders when you're ready.

[DonCorazon]

I'll have mine in later tonight - West coast time.

[effeDom]

is game full?
if not id like to join
it looks like all the nations i know a bit are taken so how about vanheim?
ive never played MA before, only EA and LA....so it'll be fun, but i am pretty new http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

let me know if i can join as vanheim or another nation i dont actually mind so much who i play. sounds like a fun game setup. i have no changes to proposed setup.

[Omnirizon]

sorry effeDom,

already full up.

-Omni

i'll be getting my pretender in later toninght too (perhaps very late though).

[Calahan]

Will try to get my Pretender in tonight. If I don't manage that, then it'll probably be Saturday morning (UK time) before I get it done :-( as I'm away all day Friday.

[BigDisAwesome]

I won't be able to get my pretender in until tomorrow after work. Sorry guys.

[Cerlin]

I will have my pretender in tonight, but thats Japan time. Which means a little later than all of you.

[Cerlin]

Ok I uploaded now so it can start and not be slowed down by me living in tomorrow.

[BigDisAwesome]

Alright got my pretender in.

[Omnirizon]

hurrah!

I know one person said they are away today, and won't be able to get theirs in until Sat. morning.

i saw Arco's player post after uploading started, so I assume they are working on getting theirs in, and will be in by tommorow morning too.

If all goes well, we can be started this weekend. if all goes really well, we have even get half a dozen turns done over the weekend.

I can't wait to get started. Shinuyama looks like one of the most interesting and fun nations I've seen, with a lot of potential and variability, although difficult to use well. After getting the chance to tinker and test with them, I wonder why I've never noticed them before, and don't see them mentioned much.

[BigDisAwesome]

Well I don't know about getting that many turns done. I'll be gone most of the day Sunday, so probably only one or two turns for me.

[Omnirizon]

could everyone pleez double check and ensure their pretenders were created with CBM off?

invariably, every non-CBM game has someone who makes their pretender with it on; and its usually me. I double checked and know I had it off this time. But if anyone else is involved in any CBM games (since they will turn it on automatically when you do turns in them), make sure your pretender was made with it off please.

having to reset a game and resend pretenders over such an issue will delay start by a day or more; its very annoying. take a moment and ensure your pretender is kosher.

of course, of someone accidently does this anyway, we won't hate you. you'll just be the ***-hole for a day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif that's usually me too, apparently, so I'll appreciate you for relieving me of the image.

[Calahan]

Pretender sent.

[Omnirizon]

thanks calahan.

I've sent the last remaining player a PM; hopefully we're off the ground soon here.

[Omnirizon]

it's been almost 72 hours since StrictlyRockers, the last remaining player, has logged into the forums and posted.

he knows we're starting soon, yet hasn't mentioned he was going to be away. I can understand if someone is away, but as a game is trying to get started and during its early stages, its polite to let people know you won't be around at a certain time period. I say this especially because a game that goes slowly at this point will lose people's interest; that "hot and bothered" feeling (yes, I get h&b over games, i'm a strange guy). I've seen people slip out of a game half-heartedly because they lost interest because it moved so slow in the early stage; and I don't want that to happen here. I don't mind waiting, but its nice to know we're waiting for a good reason.

Strictly, please don't look at this too harshly; hell, if you live in Berkley, you probably have a hell of a fun life and lots of better things to be doing. Thus I don't hold it against you for not checking in regularly. Also, I'm not abandoning you yet, but its not fair to hold up the game for one person. Please get your pretender in ASAP so we can get started.

If Strictly doesn't get in by say tommorow night, would people be OK with starting without him? It'd be a game of 9 players then. We also have the option of picking up someone who asked to join after we were full. However that would delay the game a little more; which is what I want to avoid.

Hell, I need to put a notice an the organizing post that if you don't have your pretender in within a certain time-period after the uploading starts, you get left out or something. I understand that people have other issues or maybe an actual life, but its just not polite considering there are several people involved here.

[anticipatient]

I would really like to play. If I knew you could delete/remove a pretender easily, I'd just send one now, but I'll wait for permission first.

I have a pretender for Man ready to upload when you are ready. I don't know if you have room for me without rockers dropping out. Let me know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DonCorazon]

i don't have a problem starting sun nite. while you didn't post a deadline, i had the sense we were getting started this weekend and i thought Strictly posted somewhere he was anxious to get started. next time prob best to set a deadline to be clear.

[llamabeast]

Anticipatient, if you want send your pretender directly to me (llamabeast[at]...) then, depending on SR's appearance and Omnirizon's decision, I can use it or not.

[Omnirizon]

DC,

thats why I feel uneasy about dropping him. I had just announced we were close to full and about to start, and he posts saying how excited he is about starting. that was four days ago, now everyone but him has uploaded, and he hasn't been hear from since.

this is the first game I've organized and I didn't think to post a deadline. For that matter I didn't think to post a turn cycle or rules on staling either; I'll have to try and reach a consensus on them during the first turn or two. I also need to have a big wooden sign hanging down on my computer desk that reads "Murphy's Law" to remind me to mind these issues.

llamabeast,
would you start the game with anticipatient's pretender last thing before you hit the hay tonight? That'll give SR some time today to get here. If doesn't make it by then, then he's really had quite a bit of time.

and everyone,
is 48 hours the first turn (to make sure everyone is OK) and 24 hours for the first twenty turns OK with everyone? after that we can discuss 48 hour turns and higher. If anyone ever needs more time or a pause of game; just ask. If anyone stales twice in a row, they're out.

-Omni

[Dragar]

Souns liks a plan http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DonCorazon]

works for me

[Kheldron]

All right with me

[BigDisAwesome]

Roger Dodger

[anticipatient]

I'll upload the pretender straight away.

[Omnirizon]

cool.

we're full.

does the game start automatically once the last person has uploaded? or will llama have to start it?

[anticipatient]

I think Llama will start it. Yeah, I loaded my MAN pretender. I hope it was the right one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cerlin]

Yay Start please! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think its a little rude if someone misses the start, but if they cannot help it then no hard feelings and they can find another game. Starting soon is good for me.

[anticipatient]

OK. I changed to MA Ermor.. I don't think I can handle MA man. They really aren't that strong, I think... I like them, but they are not strong.

One problem: I don't know if llamaserver will let one email address play two nations, SO I don't know if it will overwrite my MAN pretender or not. I will send llama a message.

[anticipatient]

OK game is full. If I can coordinate with Llama, I will change to ermor. Otherwise, I will be playing Man!

[llamabeast]

Right, I think we are all sorted, but I have to go to work now. I'll start the game this evening.

This will allow a critical buildup of suspense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[llamabeast]

Apologies all, I had a much busier evening than expected, and now just have to go to bed. I will start the game tomorrow for sure. Sorry for the further suspense!

[anticipatient]

You'll never hear a complaint about you from me, Llama. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[StrictlyRockers]

OMG, I am so sorry. I forgot I was going on a camping trip all weekend in the mountains. I just got back and I am sending in my pretender now. I know, my bad. If you guys start without me, I won't whine about it. I didn't mean to hold the game up.

I hope I can play though, I really wanted to play in this one. This is my only real game atm. So, I'm off to make a pretender, and good luck in thisi game if I didn't get it in on time.

[anticipatient]

Cool, hopefully we can get Rockin' now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If I'm one too many now that SR is here, I'll bow out, but I'd still like to play if it's cool with you Omni.

[Omnirizon]

OMMfG. OK. no. I'm sorry Strictly. We can only take one of you, and we are going to stick with anticipatient. We are so far behind schedule right now. anticipatient. get your mother****ing new pretender to llama NOW!!! This game better be live tommorow.

unless llama gets busy again that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

anticipatient already got his pretender to me, so that is fine.

Cradle is a big map. You could squeeze 11 players on if you wanted to. Entirely your call.

[llamabeast]

What I will do is start it as soon as I can (early this evening UK time) regardless. If I have SR's pretender and Omni's approval, then I'll start it with all 11 players. If either the pretender or the approval don't arrive in time I'll start it with just the 10 (including anticipatient).

[Omnirizon]

thanks for your service llama.

I'm going to stick with 10 players on this one; for three reasons.

one is that adding an extra land player starts giving our single water nation too much advantage.

two is that there is another game just staring signups. it is an LA CBM game called corruption. It, literally, just started recruiting, so Strictly should be able to get in there.

three is that the map is only rated max ten players; and while I've heard as many as twelve playing on it successfully, I actually want to limit game length a little, and I think fewer players is good in that regard.

[llamabeast]

Sloth was 21 players on Cradle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif That was absolutely fine. Certainly 10 is not many on Cradle. However, I respect your decision and will use only anti's pretender.

[Omnirizon]

21 players! good lord. that would be cramped; fun perhaps, but cramped.

but yeah, i'd rather stick with fewer players this time around.



hmmm... i want to try one of these super cramped map games sometime though. not twenty-one on cradle though, but something like ten on silent seas.

[llamabeast]

Game started! Hopefully all is as it should be.

Have a fun game!

[Omnirizon]

well starting positions are nothing less than goofy. if this were standard victory they would be absolutely dubious. however, since it is capturing caps, the knot of players in the north and center may not at the huge disadvantage too the players all by themselves in the southern and eastern corners.

the players off by themselves have lots of land easily available to them, but all those players close to each other have the capitals easily available. Kind of hard to say to say whos really at the advantageous postion.

what's everybody think?

[Kheldron]

I think let's play and see !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[StrictlyRockers]

No problem. I understand the host's decision on this.

Have fun you guys!!

[Omnirizon]

i agree kheldron. lets just play.

though i cant help trying to speculate on how it might work out. there are enough factors though that I think it could go anyway very easily. Plus diplomacy has that tendency to be the great equalizer. Any inherent advantage is balanced out by the diplomatic disadvantage that player will have to face from a map of wary players.

[llamabeast]

Alpaca had somewhat goofy start positions on Cradle as well (also with 10 players), but ended up being a really good game.

The best way round this issue is to hand-place starting positions, but that's actually really quite hard work. Generally games with goofy start positions end up being very fun regardless.

[Omnirizon]

well fun is most important. and I think it looks like this will be a fun game.

now lets all declare war on that guy in province 195. corner postion and closest player is like 9 steps away. it will be mid game before anyone can reach him, but he better watch out when we do.

[anticipatient]

Fun is good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think a strong player in the center, especially a bless pretender, will do well...

[Calahan]

All

Great to see the game is finally up and running :-) My thanks to Omni and llama for getting this done so that we can all enjoy :-)

Now the (slight) bad news, I'm not going to be able to submit my first turn until tomorrow as I'm away with work all day. So my apologies in advance for being the person who holds up the first turn.

And btw, I think it's a great idea that the first turn is set to 48hours! :-)

[Omnirizon]

no prob calahan.

if anyone ever needs a delay, just ask.

[Omnirizon]

hey folks,

I changed the reminder time to 9 hours. I always prefer this, because work and sleep are typically 8 hours for most people, so if you ever forget a turn and go to sleep or work before the reminder comes in, you man not be helped by it much.

if the extra three hours is, for whatever reason, a great annoyance to anybody, I can always switch it back.

-Omni

[DonCorazon]

good idea - i should do that for alexandria. the 1am reminders are like twisting the knife when you stale

[Calahan]

Looks like I'm going to have to politely request a 24hr delay for the next turn (turn 6) as I'm going to be out all day on Sunday.

Was hoping turn 5 would have hosted by now so that I could have done my turn 6 tonight without needing a delay. But it hasn't hosted yet, so....

'Please can I request a 24hr extension for turn 6'

Apols and TIA.

[Omnirizon]

not a prob Calahan.

I don't suppose you could find a sub to do one turn for you? This early in the game doing a turn is typically pretty simple, and a pretty straight forward set of instructions is all that is required.

then again, if you're leaving now, you don't really have time for that either. Whatever happens, no worries, have fun, and we can delay game for a day.

[Calahan]

Omnirizon

I can happily withdraw my delay request now :-) but thanks for accepting it in principal :-)

The current turn has just hosted, so I can get my turn done tonight now :-) and not worry about tomorrow.

I guess going to the status page, hitting 'refresh' all the time, and saying "Come on, host you b@stard" (b@stard) really does work :-)

[Omnirizon]

lol. the '@' sign is hyperlinked, and clicking it prompts me to send some mail to someone at b[at]stard.

any rate. no prob.

and in other news, Caeluem has launched a suprise attack on a province of questionable value, but right next to our home capital; undoubtedly trying to get a look at what Shinuyama are up too. Troops were dispatched immediately, and war is expected to follow. However, there is still likely a lot of indie territory between our two borders, and open conflict will probably be delayed.

[Omnirizon]

Ermor is on the verge of staling.

do we delay?
I typically say no, since no one asked for a delay. I'm about to leave for a few hours this afternoon though, and am ambiguous. If other players want to, we can. otherwise the game goes on as planned.

edit: i just noted that the server hasn't updated in almost two hours. i'm not sure what that means. will the host even process? could ermor have sent in a turn and it isn't showing? anyone?

i think safest bet is to delay hosting until llama can be contacted and we know what is going on.


continued edit: llama got back to me. ther was an error on the server that was preventing it from updating. it's working normally now, and I'm going to allow it to host.

[Omnirizon]

not only has Caeleum launched a suprise invasion on our territory, Abysia refuses to acknowledge our embassy missions, and will not engage in diplomacy, a sure sign of hostile intent.

Shinuyama, it seems, is looking at a two front war, and it hasn't even been half a year. Other nations are encouraged to rise up and take action against Caeleum and Abysia, before they have managed to carve up Shinuyama together, and gained a large lead in lands and income. Their home capitals are 164 and 56, respectively. We will keep everyone updated on all their troop movements. Jump into their backyards and make a grab while we are keeping them occupied.

[Dragar]

Beg pardon?

Abysia has not noticed any embassy missions - perhaps I'm missing where I am meant to see messages?

Further Abysia has made no hostile movements towards Shinuyama. Clearly some early posturing here for early advantage..

[anticipatient]

Well I staled, which is kind of a bummer for turn 6 or whatever, but I'll look at it as enforced savings and . . . generally conservative behavior http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Sorry about that, guys. It looks like either I downloaded the turn file but didn't copy it, or the file got ruined some other way. I remember expecting a new turn but not having one to play, and then I had to leave on a trip, so I didn't get the chance to check the forums or anything.

Apologies guys. I wouldn't expect anything other than a stale if I did the same thing again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I may be wrong, but I am inclined to believe that it was an error on my end, not llamaserver's.

Oh, I may have also sent .2h files (for two or three different games) in one email and llamaserver only receives one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I should be able to recover just fine.

[anticipatient]

Dragar, he either sent diplomacy via the forum here or via the game itself, in which case it would be the top item at the beginning of the turn when your "messages" screen turns up (same place you find battle results).

[Dragar]

ah, its a forum message. Never used the messaging system here so didn't think to check. Assumed any messages would come in game

reading now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Omnirizon]

well, it seems there was a simply misunderstanding with our embassy to Abysia; probably a cultural difference.

diplomacy is now underway and progress has been made. There is no war between Abysia and Shinuyama any longer.

[Omnirizon]

in a bold rush Caelum has got Shinuyama in a stranglehold. The Bakemono were little match for large squads of Mammoths backed by legions of Archers. They are seiging our capital now, and it looks like a short run for this nation.

Most of their resources are certianly invested in attempting to overthrow our capital though, and their own is likely undefended. Other nations are encouraged to take advantage before Caelum jumps to a mammoth lead before the first year is even out.

[Kheldron]

I'd like to remind to anyone tempted by Shinuyama calls that by this time of year Caelum can easily buy a new expansion army everyturn, non-counting the initial one sieging their fortress.

[Omnirizon]

that's right folks. don't attack him now, let him buy new armies every turn till he's trampling across your lands. he's already collecting two caps worth of taxs, plus his other provinces.

[Dragar]

Stop the stampede now anyone who can! Drop his income a bit and the elephants will dry up pronto, the last thing we want are hordes of them

[DonCorazon]

Yo Andeans - my computer fried. Work laptop still works but can't watch battles and its painful to do turns. I will still try to be quick but Pythium may lag relative to my usual speedy turn taking self until I can get Dell to make it right again.

[Omnirizon]

let us know if you need a delay. The extra time between the painful opening of turn files is probably better for my mental health right now anyway.

[DonCorazon]

Video card is dead in my laptop. Dell says 3-5 business days for a new one - hopefully an upgrade. In the meantime, I will try and get my turn in tomorrow on the work laptop. Never as high quality since it involves a lot of me glancing over my shoulder, alt-tabbing and I can't watch battles but oh well.

On another note, what the hell is going on over there in the west? Is Caelum rampaging across the lands? I can tell you all is quiet on the eastern front...for now.

[Kheldron]

Just look at the graphs and you'll have your answer. If any nation is rampaging it's Pangea.
What Shinuyama is whining about is he quiclky lost our war but even with those lands of his I conquered I'm still 4th in provinces and 7th in income despite order 3.
Now you know how much I'm a threat to the world...

Bakemono, to die with honor is often to die without a cry.

If you want to atone for your honorless cries, you can still do sepuku http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Omnirizon]

hey,

i've been trying to send in my turn, but i keep getting a return error, like llamaserver isn't accepting turns


anybody else?

[llamabeast]

I think the mail server is down right now. It occasionally goes down for an hour or two, and unfortunately is beyond my control (it's a separate machine and it's not mine). I'm surprised you actually got a return error though. I've just sent a test e-mail to see if I get the same thing.

[Dragar]

it has been down a minimum of 10 hours btw, is ent my turns in that long ago and they still haven't registered. Hope the mail server doesn't have too serious an affliction!

[llamabeast]

It seems to be working again now.

If your turns still haven't registered Dragar, you could try sending them again.

[Dragar]

Good call, that works now. May be worth posting something on your site recommending everyone resend? Perhaps also delaying turns is appropriate, one could easily stale having thought a turn was delivered.

[llamabeast]

Well it claims it was only down from 8am to 10am. I don't know if there was some other issue before that. I'll send an e-mail to the mail server guy (well, it's my brother actually) and ask.

[llamabeast]

Ah, turns out you were right Dragar, it was down much of the night, for some reason the error messages are only reaching me now (it e-mails me each time it can't get to the mail server). I think, though, that any games which host any time soon will automatically have been postponed. They should have been, in any case.

[DonCorazon]

Omnirizon said:
let us know if you need a delay. The extra time between the painful opening of turn files is probably better for my mental health right now anyway.



I could use about a 4 hour extension so I can get Dom 3 installed on another PC and do the turn tonight. Should be done by ~10pm Pacific. Thanks.

[Omnirizon]

consider it done

[DonCorazon]

Thanks Omni. I am up and running on my old law school desk top machine. Should be no more delays unless this bad boy blows up.

[Janlm]

independant provinces in this game are sick....

[Calahan]

Any fears by others of a green covered Pangaean world have just been relieved. Took a major beating last turn from an innocent looking Indy province that just happened to be hiding 2 Skelly spamming / Imp spamming 'Circle Masters' (Whatever the hell they are).

Don't these Indy's realise that resistance is futile? Time to go back to the Grove for a bit of a re-think.

[Janlm]

my knights attacked a province defended by militia and the likes, and met a cleverly concealed army of elephants..

[Calahan]

It's harsh isn't it! You expect to have to deal with deceit, distrust, and deception from other nations, but not from the bloody Indy's!

I call upon all nations to join together in attacking the un-trustworthy nation of 'Independents'. Together we can wipe them out once and for all!

[Niarg]

I'm going away for this weekend, I'll be able to submit this turn but not the next one until monday morning. Would it be possible to delay the game until then?

[Omnirizon]

no prob

[anticipatient]

This is kind of starting to frustrate me. I sent in a turn 28 hours ago, come back to play again, and I've gotten a stale turn! It was probably foolish to be signed up for three games while I was going to be taking a road trip, true, but I'm coming online to play every 24 hours, give or take a few . . .

Could we please change the hosting interval to 36 hours or something? Stale turns at this point in the game HURT!

[anticipatient]

I will be back on a consistent schedule by the 14th of July. However, I need a turn stall for the 10th and 11th of July. I will be in Yellowstone with no internet access. :O! If this is not possible, I understand, but it would be very helpful, and I would still send in my turn ASAP whenever possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Omnirizon]

of course its possible.

however, I may not be admin by that point in time. the proud nation of Shinuyama is just about done with. someone else needs to take over duties.

any volunteers?

[Calahan]

Can I please request a 6 hour extension for the current turn (turn 14). Was hoping to get home from work before hosting was due to get my turn done, but that is looking very unlikely now due to a hectic day.

(Edit) I can happily withdraw my extension request. Managed to just about get my turn done in time. Mainly because the llamaserver has a different idea about what GMT is to what I have. Which is odd seeing as how it's only about 300miles away from me. Not complaining though, as otherwise I would have stalled!

[BigDisAwesome]

Pangaea is waging war to his South. Anyone that's looking to cut through his chaff wouldn't have as much to deal with if they attack now.

[Calahan]

I feel likewise can be said about Ashdod. If anyone has been waiting for a good oppotunity to attack these formidable giants, then now is your chance.

And don't worry about the Pangaean chaff. Plenty more where they came from :-)

[Omnirizon]

sorry about the stale. I thought i went AI already

its been fun, actually learned a lot, believe it or not. looking forward to giving this nation another try.

[Kheldron]

Omni,
I must say that a part of me actually feels bad for having kicked you off this game...which basically was *your* game. If you want to follow up how things fare I can forward you my turns so that you see things from the other side.

[DonCorazon]

Point scored - and then there were 9...

Pythium is on our way to rescue the poor oppressed folk of Shinuyama - we'll probably make it to that side of the board by the time the game ends.

[anticipatient]

Would whoever is hosting please delay? Omni, technically you are still host : )

[anticipatient]

By the time R'lyeh plays and sends their turn in, I don't think I'll have internet access, so please delay hosting 48 hours, pretty pretty please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DonCorazon]

Turn hosted - I guess somebody should have volunteered to host the game now that Omni is out. If nobody else will do it, I will volunteer.

[anticipatient]

I'm happy to host as well. Omni still read forum? I will send him message.

[Omnirizon]

hey all.

yeah i've kept this thread bookmarked to check in on requests and stuff. if anti is willing to take the job, i'll pass it to him; i know DC is admining at least one other game right now.

[BigDisAwesome]

I will be out of town this weekend, so if I could get a small delay that'd be awesome. I'll be leaving about 5PM EST on Friday the 18th, and getting back about 10PM EST on Sunday the 20th.
Thanks in advance.

[anticipatient]

Yes, BDA, I will give you a delay. Please remind me Thursday if possible. I will try to remember, but a PM at the appropriate time would be very helpful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[anticipatient]

game hosting has been delayed 72 hours. please continue to send in your turns asap, as it will continue to autohost as long as all the players are in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[BigDisAwesome]

Um. I kinda screwed things up.

Now I need it delayed. I put in my turn and made it host after you delayed it already.
Sorry to be such a pain anticipatient.

[anticipatient]

BigDis, I think the hosting delay is still in effect, but I'll just go make sure. not a worry.

[anticipatient]

By the way, Caelum does look rather threatening, and I'm inclined to degree that now may be the best time to clip their wings . . .

[anticipatient]

Game is postponed 48 hours, so it shouldn't host until something like Monday. Just keep sending your turns in when you get a chance, and ask for extensions as you need them, bigdis. I am happy to keep setting extensions if it means we can keep the game going http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kheldron]

This coming from you quite surprises me Anticipient.

We're about as strangers as two nations can be in this game and quite equals in strength if graphs say anything.
We're about the same in provinces, gem income and army size. I'm before you in forts and income. You're way before me in research and dominion.

Now, the only reason I can find for you to speak so is to distract and mislead someone (?).


Is it so simple ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Come on folks go and attack Caelum, send your troops far and away from me and don't look back !!!

[anticipatient]

Oh, I only meant that SHOULD someone want to clip your wings, now WOULD be the time, wouldn't you agree?

Same goes for me, really, except I don't have wings, and the only jokes I can think to make about clipping might offend certain demographics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To be honest, I'm just afraid of lightning. And mammoths. And men with wings, too, as it happens. Besides, you have two capitals! Rather intimidating.

As far as the score graphs go, I think you have me confused with Pythium, at least as far as research goes. Look, I'm the one waaaaay down there at the bottom. Actually, I'm almost OFF the graph at the bottom. =D

[Kheldron]

Oops yes you(re right I mistook your purple with Pythium's.

Come on folks, gang on Pythium now before it's too late !!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[DonCorazon]

Zzzzz....zzzzz....

Eh, what, did someone mention Pyth?

By the time our ridiculously slow troops make it to the front through this maze of impassable rivers, forest and swamps in the East, Caelum will have surely won.

[Janlm]

whats that about the first turn i just received by mail?

[Cerlin]

yeah whats that?

[DonCorazon]

looks like this turn 1 file is the same as the turn 25 one from Friday. I guess it was a hiccup in the server - we should check in with Llamabeast before this thing hosts again as that makes it ever harder to correct if there is anything to be done.

[Kheldron]

Yes anti can you delay the deadline until we contact Llamabeast?

[anticipatient]

It's already delayed until Tuesday, so we should have plenty of time. That's strange, though :p

[llamabeast]

Oooh dear, I think I got confused between AndeanZorro and DarwinsZorro! Let me take a look...

[anticipatient]

I am guessing Llama confused Andean Zorro and Darwin's Zorro; Darwin's Zorro, Llama said, was started, but actually it is just not on the list anymore, and based on my email and whatnot, the times all match. So we'll see. I think we're overworking llamabeast http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Ok, that was easy - fixed! I accidentally "started" AndeanZorro instead of DarwinsZorro, but all it actually did was resend your turns and set the turn number to 1. So I've set it back to 25 again. Carry on!

[anticipatient]

Ok, so play as if nothing happened. If you already sent your turns in, they should still be sent in. If you haven't, get your *** in gear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Although actually, there is a hosting delay for BigDisAwesome over the weekend (he should be back Sunday).

By the by, I think now would be a good time to thank Llamabeast again for all the great things he does for this community!

[BigDisAwesome]

Alright I'm back. I just got my turn in. Thanks again for the delay everyone.

[anticipatient]

Great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You beat a whole lot of other people.

I don't want to change the hosting delay, in case other people planned around it, but please get your turns in when you can.

You're perfectly welcome BDA.

[Kheldron]

You couldn't be more right.

THANKS LLAMA !!!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif <font color="red"> </font>

[Calahan]

Sorry for Pan holding the game up a bit. (just submitted my turn) Was all set to do my turn yesterday afternoon, but then I noticed the 1st turn email that got sent out with the AndeanZorro / DarwinZorro mixup, so thought it safer to hold it back until the all clear was given.

Also, I may need a delay this coming Friday+weekend (apols in advance). I've got a big family wedding on Saturday and no idea how much time (if any) I'll have to sort my turns out. Best case scenario is I won't need any delay, worst case is that I'll need a delay covering Friday-Sunday. Will know more towards the end of the week, but thought I'd give everyone a heads up now. And the days of 5 minute turns are long gone for me as well, since it takes me about an hour to do a turn now. Too much chaff! :-)

[BigDisAwesome]

Calahan said:
Too much chaff! :-)



I'm trying to help!

[Kheldron]

I'd like to make some things clearer about the rules we use in this game.

I thought i was agreed in MP games that NAPs should always be respected. They could be broken in th agreed delay.
Isn't it so in this game?

Because a certain satyre nation just broke a NAP-3 and attack me in the same turn.

The other games I've been in made it an unbreakable rule so it would be good to know how we stand in this one.
I don't see the point of making any NAP in this game if they're worth smoke you see.

[Dragar]

My understanding was that there is no 'rule' per se that governs treaties/pacts etc, its up to the player to trust the other party. Of course, any broken NAP should be made public so that the offender's reputation is tarnished, but I've always found the capacity to backstab is what makes diplomacy in multiplayer games potentially so exciting. I'm always too proud of my reputation to do it, but it always adds spice to a game when it happens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kheldron]

Ok then.
To add spice, I'd like you all to know Pangea was the one asking for the treaty while Ashdod was biting at his hoofs a few turns ago.

Since he sent his god and about 500 troops to me, all those of you that have an interest in his whereabouts or want to uphold any honor in this game shall feel free to go and plunder his lands, he won't have much to defend.

Enjoy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Calahan]

Yes it is true, the Ruler of the Groves found it necessary to commit the age old, and well practiced art of treachery against the flight gifted ones, and no defence is sought for our actions. But surely the ancient High Seraphs must have realised that a time would come when other nations no longer turned a blind eye to their quest for domination of this world. The wise rulers of the skies must have known their plan to swallow up any neighbour smaller than themselves, until none remained, would not go unnoticed forever. Indeed, I foresee the other nations of the world rejoicing at the news that someone is prepared to stand against the growing might of Caelum.

So while Pangaea can be considered the villain in this particular chapter of history, it is Caelum's over aggressive actions that has made the writing of it a necessity. As we found it impossible to merely sit and watch another smaller nation fall victim to the powerful gaze from the Eye of Caelum. We consider Marignon to be our friends, and Caelum's decision to engage them in open hostilities has forced the Maenad hordes to respond accordingly.

Marignon will not be the latest casualty of Caelum's glory seeking, as it is they themselves who will be the eventual victims of their war.

[Calahan]

My understanding of NAP's was that, like Drager said, NAP's are not 100% binding unless stated in the rules for the particular game you are playing.

Some games also state that NAP's are binding if they are officially declared in the game thread (see the EA DarkParadise game for an example of this), but any secret NAP's made are not subject to the same binding rules as the public ones. I guess it is only fair that if you are not prepared to tell anyone about your secret NAP's, then you can't really expect anyone to listen to your complaints when your secret NAP's get broken. From reading numerous posts on these forums, it seems that most of the time NAP's are honoured, but backstabbing is part of the risk of NAP's (know your enemies well, but know your allies even better) and a part of MP games in general.

I'm sure I read somewhere (although I could well have either imagined it, or merged many separate comments into one) that one of the reasons the devs haven't put any official game diplomacy options into the game is because they don't want any. As Dominions is meant to be a fight to the death (there can be only one etc.) so the only diplomacy that really exists is to make sure that you
(a)give the other nations a good reason NOT to attack you (ie. becoming the most powerful is a good deterrent)
(b)don't give them a reason TO attack you (ie. becoming the most powerful is a sure way of encouraging others to gang-up on you)
(c)don't give them an opportunity TO attack you (ie. don't stretch your forces too thinly by starting lots of wars)
All of the above is obviously a difficult balancing act, with (a) and (b) being a great example of a blatant contradiction!!! But then that's just another part of the this great game in my view :-)

But I am still a newb, so all of the above is just a collection of my thought on NAP's, and what I've read in many various threads on the subject. Apologies to everyone (and a HUGE apology to Kheldron) if I have broken a golden rule of MP-games that I'm unaware of, although as far as I can tell I haven't done. (I don't think breaking NAP's is held on anywhere near the same level as, or generates as much anger as for example, the whole 'Mists of Deception + Retreat' issue)

I don't generally make a habit of breaking NAP's (easy to say that now of course :-)) although I accept the risk of the 'tarnishing brush' being swept vigorously over my reputation as a result of me breaking a NAP. All that is left to say is that my mouse hand was forced into doing it by Marignon's threatened destruction. Either that or my Maenad's 'Sat-Navs' are playing up, and found themselves in Caelum's lands instead of Ashdod's :-)

[Janlm]

I for one is very happy to see at least one deciding to take the right decision and punish the war mongering Caelum, who attacked us with no reason or no warning. I have personally seen the result of their attack on the general population, and believe me when I say its not pretty. The world will be a better place without the evil of Caelum, and we will do ours to make sure it happens!

Marignon

[Kheldron]

My...poor poor Pangeans fighting against the evil almighty ogre of Caelum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

What I see is the biggest army in the world and an overpowered deified gorgon taking advantage of a former ally to increase his dominion.

You don't *have* to justify you warmongering with my so-called agressivity you know? You're just a bloody monster and can't help your nature ?
YOU were the one to ask for a NAP when you were wounded by Ashdod and I the one who could have striked at you and chosed peace instead, remember? That was only 2-3 months ago.
I for one uphold my honor and would not have gone to such depth.

Let it be known in the taverns of the world and the underworld, Pangeans are the most treacherous people of all.
Hail to all those of you who make him bleed for that!

In the meantime, we shall proudly fight to the death, which may not be ours.

Nekraal

[BigDisAwesome]

Janlm said:
I for one is very happy to see at least one deciding to take the right decision and punish the war mongering Caelum, who attacked us with no reason or no warning. I have personally seen the result of their attack on the general population, and believe me when I say its not pretty. The world will be a better place without the evil of Caelum, and we will do ours to make sure it happens!

Marignon



You talk as though Pangaea is a saint.
One piece of advice is to be careful against him. Right now I'm learning the hard way that huge amounts of chaff seem to fare better in this high research game than others.

I'm surprised to see Pangaea attacking 2 of his neighbors that were looking for peace now. Who's next on your list? Perhaps you should watch out for him Pythium.

[anticipatient]

I feel inclined to note for other observers of this altercation that we're only hearing from the participants themselves, and they are all biased.

I laud Pangaea for standing against a perceived oppressor, but I condemn them for their treachery. Were it not for their relations with Ashdod, I may consider them heroes. While Caelum is aggressive in the extreme, having consumed one nation and wasting no time in moving on to the next, I would say a better course of action for Pangaea would have been to pursue peace with Ashdod.

If Pangaea were truly interested in protecting Marignon and had thought it through, perhaps a better tactic would've been to maintain border tensions with Caelum, thereby making it more difficult for Caelum to commit to a full scale assault on Marignon.

That said, I am not attempting to vilify anyone. My goal is the same as Caelum's, the same as everyone's. And in Pangaea's situation, I would've fought against Caelum as well.

May I remind everyone that the condition of victory in this conflict is the control of five capitols. Caelum as two. Marignon's becomes a third. Pangaea's would make a fourth. Who else is then neighboring Caelum? Perhaps a better question would be, who is NOT then neighboring Caelum? And who is NOT then threatened?

I am both impressed with Caelum's success and threatened by it. I anticipate a somewhat scathing reply, despite my fairly neutral appraisal of the situation. But anyone knows that dominance in this game brings hostile attention . . . as it should.

[DonCorazon]

What's happening to Eriu - they look like they are on the way out.

[anticipatient]

They were holding off Abbyssia for a while.

[Calahan]

Looks like I'm going to need that delay I talked about for Friday-Sunday. I should be able to do the current turn, but then I'm going to have no chance of getting the following turn done until Monday. I'd be able to manage if the turns were quick, but they're taking me well over an hour now, and there's no way I'll have that sort of time free this weekend due to my best man duties at a family wedding. (I can do turns in both my other 2 games in less than 5 minutes combined, so I'll be able to sneak them in)

Apols to all about disrupting the flow of the game :-( Should be back to normal service from Monday on.

Calahan

[anticipatient]

Delay is set. No problem Calahan, gaming'd be silly if it made life impossible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Niarg]

I'm going away for a while and then moving house s I'm trying to find a permenant sub, I don't know if I'll be able to take turns until then so feel free to set me to ai.

[anticipatient]

If I set you AI, I can't un-set you AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kheldron]

I move on vacations on wednesday 30th until the 16th of august.
I'll try to connect as often as possible (game on usb key) but I can't vouch for more than once every 2-3 days.
Is it possible to have a 72h timer starting on wednesday ? If it's too much to bear, I'll try to play with 48h but...

[Dragar]

should go with 72 hours until Kheldron is able to log on more frequently. It would be a shame to have him stale or be forced to sub or AI

[Calahan]

All

Thanks for the delay this weekend, and apols for the hold-up. Should be able to get the current turn done in a few hours.

And I second 'Dragar' in saying we should move to 72hr turns to accomodate 'Kheldron'. Be silly to lose anyone at this stage just because of the hosting being too rapid.

Also, once 'Kheldron' is back properly on or around the 16th August, what's the general concensus on this game then moving to 48hr turns? The game will be close to turn 40 by then, which I think is quite late on to still be on a 24hr timer. I know I'm currently struggling to keep to a 24hr timer on a good day. (although I'm guessing my turns probably take longer to do than anyone else).

If most still want to keep with 24hr turns then that's cool. Just thought I'd throw the idea of 48hr turns out there and see what got thrown back :-)

[Janlm]

yeah lets do that, 72 hours now, and 48 once back to normal.

[Kheldron]

Thanks all.
I promise I'll try to make it as quick as ever.

[anticipatient]

72 hours is the new hosting interval. Continue to play when you can, but I very much agree that we should do our best to accommodate Kheldron.

"The hosting interval for AndeanZorro has now been changed to 72 hours, and the deadline for the next hosting has been automatically postponed by 48 hours.

Please note that this information will not be updated on the game status page for a few minutes."

Done.

[anticipatient]

I am going to be out of town for about 24 hours this weekend (JUST enough to get a stale). I hope you don't mind giving me a 36 hour extension. I will, of course, return and send my turn ASAP when I am back.

Uh, I actually went ahead and delayed it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kheldron]

Hail Lords of War,

it is with great sadness that I must bear grave news. Know all that honor has definetly fled our world as the aliens of R'lyeh proved to be no less treacherous than their satyre counterparts. They just broke a NAP-5 they asked for when I was in a position to deny them most of their lands.

Act as your heart decide if you also have an agreement with these despitefdul creatures.

Lord of the deep, we believe your deeds were dictated by greed as much as vileness as you saw Pangea holding me in a stranglehold. You may have acted rashly to ensure some share of my lands before it was too late.
Well, Pangea just took a backbeat for having been too greedy and it would have been worse had he acted as I thought.
Meditate on this when you salivate on the piece of cake. I'm made of the bitterest lemon.

Anyway, if we intend to fight till the end, I do realize that being ganged by three nations is no less a trial than building sandcastles with a coming tidal wave.
To all of you who have borders with Pangea and R'lyeh, know then that they shall soon be more powerful than ever after swallowing me...and they just showed how much you can trust any agreement you had with them.

Now would be a good time to strike I believe.

Nekraal of Caelum

[anticipatient]

R'lyeh went AI, but I am moved by your impassioned plea none the less, and I will gladly assist you by conquering the water provinces http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



P.S.
I like Lemon Cake

[Kheldron]

Those are the best news of the day ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I only have to cope with 2,5 gangers now.
Erf...

[BigDisAwesome]

Why'd he go AI? When?

[Dragar]

He posted a little while ago,and i started getting hit by rlyeh very soon afterwards

[DonCorazon]

Pace has really slowed in this game. I am not sure - are we waiting on the folks who needed 72 hours or just going to be 72 hours from now on.

[anticipatient]

I'm sorry about that delay with virtually no warning! I am back now, and hosting will go back to 24 hours.

[Janlm]

thats cool, but i think we agreed to 48 hours from now on.

[Dragar]

Didn’t we say 72 hours until the 16th when kheldron is able to log on more frequently, with a probable move to 48 hours after that?

[Janlm]

yes thats right

[DonCorazon]

I guess I am wondering - it seems turns are being done by kheldron but we are still waiting 72 hours?

[anticipatient]

Oh, my bad. It goes back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[BigDisAwesome]

I'm going on vacation next week Monday the 18th through Friday the 22nd and won't have access to a computer to put turns in. If I can get a delay that's great. Or if not we can find a replacement or I can go AI. I'm in no position to win now anyway.

Whatever is best for everyone else is fine by me. Except Pangaea! MUHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

[DonCorazon]

BDA, seems like you are not near destruction so my vote would be to try and find a Sub, or if that doesn't work delay the game, but I wouldn't object if you want to go AI

[Calahan]

Ashdod are far from gone in this game. In fact I think they're causing me (Pangaea) more problems now than at any point before.

I'd be happy to see the game delayed for a few days until BigDisAwesome got back from his hols. Be sad to see him get subbed-out, and silly to turn him AI. Plus 18th-22nd is only five days after all, which is nothing when you consider that most games last months.

[Kheldron]

Hail all,

holidays are already a memory which is sad but good for the game.
I must confess the computers on which I played these last turns couldnt display battles !!!
We can go on a 24h or 48h schedule from now on, that is after BDA comes back.

Thanks all for your patience :)

[Calahan]

Good to have you back Kheldron. Hope the holiday was a good one :-)

And your lack of visuals certainly hasn't stopped you dishing out some serious casualties to the Pangaean ranks. In fact I'm very worried as to what will happen now that you CAN see what's going on! Given our last few clashes, it's me that wishes my computer wouldn't display the battles! :-)

[Kheldron]

Well my situation went from nearly hopeless to very bad which is a world better, for sure :smirk:

I still have to cope with you, AI Rlyeh and a Marignon who's stronger than ever before, thanks to you !:up: :doh:

But I'm still in the race and I have Ashdod to thank for his constant hamstring on you, without which I certainly wouldnt be around to complain anymore :p

Cheers ! :)

[DonCorazon]

Pyth could use some N gems. We can supply A or D gems in exchange. Thanks!

[BigDisAwesome]

Alright I'm gonna get this turn in that just got sent out, and after that I won't be able to get the next one in until Saturday morning at the earliest. I'll post when I get back in town guys.

Thanks again for the delay.

And someone needs to kill Pan's Gorgon. It's tearing **** up.

It's sitting in province 137 with a couple regular troops it looks like. No astral though if someone wants to mind hunt it.

[Calahan]

What has Ashdod got against my Gorgen? She's harmless really, as all she wants is someone to play around and have a laugh with. Please don't hold it against her just because everyone she meets seems to turn all cold and stone-like. She only wants to be friends :-)

And congrats on the capital raid BDA. Cetanly didn't see that one coming!

Calahan, Ruler of the Groves.

ps. Anticipatient, my dodgy memory tells me that you're the admin for this game. If so, can you keep a check on Saturday for Ashdod's turn just in case there's a stale danger.

[BigDisAwesome]

Ok I just got back home. I'm gonna grab some sleep and do my turn first thing in the morning. Thanks again for the delay guys!

[BigDisAwesome]

And there's a lone Gorgon at land 127...

I'm getting destroyed by Pan. My growth was destroyed by his early attacks. I'm in a slowly losing battle. There's no way I can find a counter to both his freespawn and Gorgon in this high research setting. The moment I get together a decent amount of troops to take care of his freespawn, he Cloud Trapezes the Gorgon on top of them and destroys them.

So to all neighbors of Pan. Stop screwing around and help. I won't be around too much longer at this rate to suck up his aggression.

[DonCorazon]

So are we back up and running?

[Kheldron]

I just received turn 45...again.
Does that mean we have to send our orders again for this turn?

[Kheldron]

ok my bad didnt save the file in proper place:doh:

[anticipatient]

Sh-t. I broke 4/5 of my LCD computer screen. :o/ Smashed. White, black and pink. No good. I can't run dom3 on any other computer at the moment, so the 10 or 11 games I'm in need subs :( I'm really sorry. Hopefully it'll be temporary (anyone know if it's possible to replace monitors on laptops?)

Okay, I go to post on the next game =(

[BigDisAwesome]

Ouch! Good luck anticipatient.

[DonCorazon]

That was the dying curse of my harbingers, so brutally slain by Ermor.

[Kheldron]

I'll be out of town tomorrow and won't be able to connect until tuesday evening GMT+1. I already sent my turn so I should be on time for the next but I'm not sure.
If not, I'd like a delay until then if possible.

[BigDisAwesome]

It looks like I need to be set to AI. Here in Ohio we got 60-70 mph gusts of winds yesterday caused by remnants of hurricane Ike. I'm without power at home, and they're saying that it could be up to a week until they get power fully restored. So instead of delaying the rest of you for a week to wait on me, just set me AI. I'm basically a non factor anyway. I'm stuck fighting a losing fight against Pangaea. The last 15-20 turns at least have been pretty depressing for me, so I won't mind being AI.

Best of luck to everyone. Especially Caelum.

[DonCorazon]

Good luck BDA. I cannot believe we are on turn 50 with only 1 VP claimed. This may be the slowest moving game ever.

[Dragar]

It looks like we're going to be stopped until llama gets back anyways due to server difficulties, may as well hold on. It would be a shame to lose you now, and the last thing the rest of us want is to make it any easier for Pan :)

[BigDisAwesome]

Ok my power just came back on this morning. I'm not gonna be able to get to my turn until tomorrow though. As you can imagine, I've got a lot of **** to take care of after a week without power.

[Kheldron]

After so many months fighting to hold my enemies at bay, I must confess the pangea-marignon-Rlyeh coalition have finally breached my meager walls. Special praise go to Pangea and its murderous backdoors.
Anyway, three nations were way too much for me to handle.

Anyone who have interests in fighting any of them, especially the monstrous satyres, can contact me to benefit from the last gems I'll have before I die. I intend to fight till the end as I wouldn't leave this world like a coward, but here we are.
Death shall be sweet after so many struggles.

Nekraal of Caelum

[Calahan]

Must say there has certainly been some tough fighting going on in this game from the Pangaean PoV (Point of View). I noticed a few posts back DonC mentioned that the game seems slow since it's past turn 50, yet there has only been 1VP claimed, and there isn't even a clear leader of any sorts. Well that certainly isn't from lack of trying from the Sacred Groves :D

But despite Pangaea's questionable power, supposed aggression, undeniable treachery, countless fought battles, years of fighting (think it been since turn 20 v Ashdod, and turn 30 v Caelum), numerous spells, enchantments, summons etc. I think I've gained a total of 5 provinces to show for it all :) Go go unstoppable war machine!!! :p

Kheldorn, you are certainly one tough defender. Had a real job to get past our well known choke-point, and had to use an unexpected backdoor entrance to your lands to get anywhere against you :) (guess it's especially un-expected when you consider Pangaea the nation of sneaky stealth masters). I remember that fight a few turns back where you held out with just one mage remaining at the end. I watched the fight, seen my enraged troops close in on your last brave, exhausted, lone skelly spamming defender. Then, just when any of them could have delivered that fatal blow to seal a Pan victory, they all remembered that they'd left their cookers on, and all immediately rushed home to turn them off!!! Must confess to uttering a few curse words over that one :mad: :D I would say I've broken through your lines now, but I'm far from confident of anything against my winged foes with the great defence they've shown so far.

Now if I could only make any headway at all against my southern foes I'd be a happy satyr :D

With long-term hindsight, I think that all my wars against Caelum and Ashdod has achieved is to ensure that it won't be Caelum, Ashdod or Pangaea who win the game. A long standing deadlock in a war basically just seems to mean that the nations involved fall behind all the others. Oh well, live and learn I guess :)


Also, think we need to decide something over Ermor/anticipatient. He hasn't been seen on the forums for well over a week now, and I know he's staling in all the games he's still in. Not sure if it's a computer, Hurricane related, or A.N.Other problem that is keeping him away, but guess either way something needs to be done over a stale nation.

[Dragar]

Yeah its true, I've no idea what has happened to anticipatient

In general, no nation has made massive games, except perhaps pythium lately? games, except perhaps pythium lately?

[DonCorazon]

Heh, well Pythium's gains have come with some significant losses of resources (gems, thugs, SCs, afflictions on pretender...) but I'd say Abysia is on a trajectory to take the lead. As far as I know they are moving up the charts without fighting anyone so their gems are just accumulating - or are they also at war? Anyway, looks like they'll soon overtake the scholars of Pythium in research.

As for Anti, we could get a sub but frankly I think they are done with now. Their cap has been under siege and I don't see any significant fighting forces. As their conqueror, I'd be happy to let an independent reviewer check it out to see if there is something I am missing. In any case, getting a sub would be best, but I'd hate to delay the game a while if the end result is just the same...

[Dragar]

Abysia should have made great gains, but thought he'd have a crack at rlyeh.. stupid newbie :( them abysians just aint made for fighting underwater

[DonCorazon]

Shall I (or whoever is admin) post for a Sub / or someone to review Anti's turn and see if it warrants turning him AI?

[Calahan]

Aren't you the admin DC? :)

Edit: Just checked the scores on the llamaserver, and Ermor's stats seem similar to both Caelum's and Ashdod's (and I'd have a hard time believing those two positions are hopeless!) so think it's worth having a quick look for a sub (noticed most recent sub requests have been filled pretty quickly too, so we might get lucky). And DonC, if you know any experienced player(s) who can take a look at the Ermor positon as well to give some sort of general assessment of it, then that'd just be an added bonus :up:

[DonCorazon]

Nope, not me. Happy to do it if we don't have one though.

[Calahan]

Ah you're right DC, just checked the thread backlog and it was actually 'anticipatient' himself who took over from 'Omnirizon'. Makes things a bit trickier. Best PM llamabeast to request the password or password override I guess.

Be great if you could volunteer for the admin post DC. I'd happily do it, but I know that during October+November I'll be away for a few weeks here and there, so might not be the most reliable person during that time to spot problems and delay requests etc.

[DonCorazon]

ok, I will check in with Llama to see if I can take over and in the meantime look for a sub/AI switcher.

[llamabeast]

Anticipatient broke his monitor. He said so further up the thread. Unfortunate as he was in 10 games or so.

I'll send DC the admin password.

[Calahan]

Thanks once again llamabeast. Have a few pints on me for all of your continuous help. Or maybe just one pint depending on what exactly it's a pint of :)

[DonCorazon]

Calahan, how do you post while you're offline - its quite mysterious. :)

Now I remember Anti's broken monitor but somehow i thought he was still getting his turns in. Anyway, we'll see if we can find someone to review his position. The AIs in this game seem to be pretty effective opponents from what I have seen of Eriu and R'yleh

[DonCorazon]

Ok, for the record, BesucherXia has graciously offered to take control of Ermor from anticipatient.

[Kheldron]

erf for a reason I don't understand Llamaserver didn't get my last orders and made me stale. It's sad as I had some last tricks to play before calling off.

Well, fate rules in the end.

As a last note I wanted to tell you something strange about fate : remember that turn when I attacked Marignon and Pangea came to his help ? At that time there had been a problem with the Llamaserver which had made us postpone the game. During that postpone I had finally decided it may not be wise to go on attacking so soon after taking Shinuyama and changed my orders to some things more peaceful.
For some reason, the server didn't use my new orders and...well, you know the rest.

Anyway, I had great fun in playing this game. I learnt a lot.
Thank you all and see you in another game.

[BesucherXia]

As far as I can tell, Ermor is about to be eliminated. Though the capitol defense may hold a little longer, they are running out of resource for any counterattack.

I believe the Pythians are on their right way to success, so if anyone else will run against them and avenage me, I will give him what I left. Personlly I will not set the race into Ai until the last fort is lost.

---
Also, thank DonCorazon for giving me this chance to sub. I learned a lot since this is my first MP game at later phase.
Sorry for anticipatient if I had missed his original plan and had not done things better.

[Dragar]

Don't worry, pretty sure you were into a lost cause when you started. Hmmm where is pyhtium going next? Will they dare venture into Abysian lands??

[DonCorazon]

Kheldron: Good game, not that Pythium was ever able to see any of those battles being so far from the West, but we were surprised you were able to hold out as long as you have against so many. See you in the next one...

BesucherXia: You have done quite well, putting my pretender into the grave among other things. I am not sure that you need to bribe anyone to avenge Ermor, ours has been a well-fought war with mutual respect and it has cost Pythium dearly in resources (after all seeking arrows aren't free :) ) and lives (RIP Willow). It seems the one who has profited from this war the most is Abysia - just look at the research lead they have taken and the ~40 gems they get from untouched global enchantments each turn. While Pythium spends its lives and gems and pours its blood into every inch of Ermorian graveyard soil, the Abysians horde their wealth and gems and prepare their great war machine - do they really need even more? :)

Dragar: It is too hot in Abysia for the war weary folk of Pythium.

[Dragar]

Those 35 gems still leave Abysia way behind the gems earned by the pythian forces and all of their conquered land..

[Calahan]

@ BesucherXia - Sounds like you did a fanatastic job against all the odds. You came into what was always a hopeless position, but downing the Pythium pretender is certainly an impressive parting shot :up: Look forward to the chance to play in some future MP games with you :)

@ Kheldron - My hat's off to you for being an amazingly tough SOB :envy: I'm pretty sure that if you weren't fighting against 2-3 enemies the whole time, then it would be me writing my goodbyes at this point. Your tale of fate certainly suggests things worked against you. Since I remember well that it was only the high aggression shown by Caelum, and the fear for my subsequent future, that led to my decision to unleash the Maenad hordes against you. And so far, the backstabbing manner in which I attacked you is by far my biggest newbie regret from all the games I've played/am playing. Cetainly look forward to playing in future games with you :) Not looking forward to the outcome of any 1-on-1 wars with you though! Although the fighting should be a ton of fun :D


The current word from the Groves is that the Satyr's think that Abysia and Pythium both appear to be growing increasingly powerful.

[Dragar]

Abysia hasn't grown in an age! We're good little demons, keeping to ourselves and reading books

[Calahan]

Can I please request a 48 extension for the current turn. I have to go to Greece for a week with work later today, and have no idea how much free time I'll have, or even if I'll have any internet/WiFi access once I'm there. Might not need the extension if time and web connection are both good, but better to be safe than sorry :)

@ BDA - Nice one :up: But she'll be back :D

[DonCorazon]

Have fun in Greece!

48 hours has been added.

[DonCorazon]

:pointright: NEWS FLASH!!!!
The Pythium Senate has been dismissed after General Corazonus of the 6th Legion led a military coup last night. While details are sparse, it seems the recent embarrassing failure of Pyth’s champion in the arena, the death of the goddess Willow, and the quagmire of the protracted Ermorian war, including the assassination of our national hero, the Patriarch, in a magic duel, were all causes for the revolution. Corazonus is now giving notice of termination of NAPs with Pangea and Ashdod to maintain maximum flexibility to intervene in the volatile western war zones should the situation so require it.

[DonCorazon]

It seems Calahan is out of contact. Turn is supposed to host in less than an hour. I am going to add 12 hours since he staled last time and I'd hate to see two stales in a row. In the meantime, I am going to look for a possible sub. I don't want to pause the game too long since we already seem to be losing some momentum...

[Dragar]

We have momentum??

[DonCorazon]

Good point. That was diplomatic.

It would be nice to finish this game up before Christmas.

Since he said he'd be gone a week on the 15th, I am assuming he may be getting back soon so will wait a day or so. After that I guess we look for a sub or turn him AI and just get this one over with. Open to ideas though.

[Dragar]

I dunno, I've never played in a game remotely this slow. This was the second game I ever joined, and I've lost count of how many I've played since then.

I go away for almost 4 weeks late November. I was hoping initially that this game would be long gone by then, looks like the next set of wars won't even have started the way we're going.

Pangaea really is critical to the game, we need Calahan here to make it worthwhile..

It seems really, really wasteful, but is anyone still enjoying this one? or are we continuing on for the sake of it?