FreshMeat - EA Newbie - (RUNNING)

[effeDom]

Game Name: FreshMeat
Server: LLamaServer
Players: 8 to 12, newbies
Map: Cradle (or Paraganos)

Settings --
Indies: 7
Special Sites: 50
Randoms: Common
Graphs: Enabled
HoF: 15
Research: Standard
Victory: VP (NON-Cumulative)=7 points (need to capture 6 capitals and hold them, which is half the nations+1 if we get full game)
Renaming: On


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PLAYER LIST--

Abysia: effeDom
Sauromatia: Executor
Pangaea: Ubercat
Yomi: Darkstone
Tir'Na Nog: Bwaha
T'ien Ch'i: majuva68
Arcoscephale: Piggles
Fomoria: Calahan
Niefelheim: meister_miagi
Helheim: Ossa
Lanka: anticipatient
Marverni: GrudgeBringer

players: 12
GAME CLOSED, UPLOAD PRETENDERS (when game is hosted)
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Rules (I hoped I'd not have to add any but I've already gotten some PMs about some stuff we should probably state at the beginning, so, here goes...)
--

1) No known exploiting of battle spells. I dont even know the exploits but I've heard of Mists and Fog something or other used in some combo with the mage retreating and then the battle never ends so defender always wins, or something along those lines. Conclusion? You cannot retreat a mage casting any battle enchantment. Period.

2) Anyone staling will be given notice after 1 turn, I think this is automatic by the llamaserver anyway. Staling after 2 turns, a sub will be sought. If no sub by 4 turns, your nation goes to AI. There will be no waiting for anyone, turns will go forward every 24h. This is a newbie game and losing one turn isnt the end of the world. Keep this in mind when fighting a war as well, please, and if you know you are fighting a grueling 1v1 on someone, and they are stale, give them room to breath. Just play nice. Newbie game.

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*I changed magic sites down to 50 from 55.

Discuss changes and give reasons why if you propose any change.

This game is for newbies. No mods. Keeping it simple. First time I've hosted, and, for that matter, my first MP as well.
Hopefully will work without flaw but, please be patient should that not happen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[llamabeast]

Good stuff, yep, I'm very happy to host. Let me know when you have enough players and I will set the game up to accept pretenders.

[Executor]

I'm in as Sauromatia.

[Ubercat]

I'll take Pangaea, if it's ok.

Some of you may recall that I played a number of MP games last year and so might not consider me a newbie. I think that this game is so diverse that skill and ability vary widely based on how familiar you are with the faction you're playing. I consider myself a newbie equivalent because I'm out of practice and have never mastered the Pangaeans. I played 1-2 games with them but didn't do very well.

Now, what I really want to play is Mictlan, but I have a solid Mictlan build and enough of a handle on them that it would be patently unfair to use them in this game. I want to try out some things with the moosemen, though, and think I'm a reasonable fit here, as long as no one objects.

In fact just to make it easier, if anyone doesn't want me to take part, maybe you could PM effeDom. That way it's all anonymous. Thank you for your consideration. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[K]

I'll play as Lanka.

[Darkstone]

I'd like Yomi please.

I'm in a boat similar to Ubercat. I'm in my first two MP games right now, but I've never played Yomi in SP or MP.

[Bwaha]

hi i would like the tir na nog very much if i may http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bwaha. ps.worthy hereos???

[majuva68]

I'll play as T'ien Ch'i

[llamabeast]

K, you are not a newbie!

[Bwaha]

if no worthy hero's, how do i shut it off? Bwaha

[K]

llamabeast said:
K, you are not a newbie!



Well, I haven't played an MP game in around a year. It's almost like being a newbie!

To be serious, I've been waiting two weeks for a game to come up that didn't have weird requirements.

[Piggles]

Ooh, I want in, I'll take Arcoscephale.

[Renojustin]

I've been wanting to give Mictlan a try... with the additional caveat that I'd really prefer playing on a medium random map and default settings, like 5 for indy strength. Is there any reason why this is the chosen map? Also, is there any reason why you have pushed indy strength to 7? That can throw a lot of things out of balance! Improved indy strength is fun for SP but it can really hurt MP, in my opinion.

And the same goes for the 55 site frequency... this places a lot of emphasis on magic, so bless nations and nations with powerful troops, or even nations without a lot of magic diversity will be thrown very much out of whack. Failing changing things to default, could we at least have your reasons for doing so? It doesn't look good in the Hall of Honor when you have to put asterisks next to your win!

[Calahan]

I'd like to join as Fomoria please. Happy with most of the settings suggested, although I've never played a game with sites as high as 55, so no idea what effect that will have on the game over the longhaul.

[llamabeast]

I've gotta say K, I think if you play in this you will thrash them all easily. After all you are well known as a competent MP player.

If you'd like a new MP game though, I can easily set one up. Any preferences? Seriously, I will always set a game up for someone if they want one. Even if you're not willing to admin, we should always be able to find someone to admin, being as it's a small job.

[meister_miagi]

I'd like to play as Niefelheim! Settings are fine by me.

[effeDom]

im updating thread now for new players.

K, i'm leaving you out for now, until your little convo with llama is resolved ok? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
if you dont end up setting up another game, i dont have any problem with you playing here, but, then again, this game wont go into any hall of fame or rankings or whatever there is and it certainly wont be fun for a veteran to play here...it'll be like playing against normal or difficult SP AI probably, at the most, hehehe....(well, i still have problem beating AI on difficult, especially with some nations).

[effeDom]

Renojustin said:
I've been wanting to give Mictlan a try... with the additional caveat that I'd really prefer playing on a medium random map and default settings, like 5 for indy strength. Is there any reason why this is the chosen map? Also, is there any reason why you have pushed indy strength to 7? That can throw a lot of things out of balance! Improved indy strength is fun for SP but it can really hurt MP, in my opinion.

And the same goes for the 55 site frequency... this places a lot of emphasis on magic, so bless nations and nations with powerful troops, or even nations without a lot of magic diversity will be thrown very much out of whack. Failing changing things to default, could we at least have your reasons for doing so? It doesn't look good in the Hall of Honor when you have to put asterisks next to your win!



hi Renojustin http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
a few answers...
first of all, i just personally thought it'd be a bit slower and more challenging to learn better with indy at 7. i play SP with indy at 7 or 8 usually, from what i see it just makes you chose carefully which provinces you expand to, sometimes forcing you also to not expand one turn because you have to go back a province to attack another side, having come up against an elephant wall or heavy cavalry or something. also considering the map is big for only 12 players if we fill it up (i usually play SP with all nations on cradle), i think its better with higher indy making it not so easy to just wipe out every single indy prov.
the difference is small though. maybe im even screwing myself by this because i think i will start with a sleeping or dormant pretender, while SC pretenders can probably do pretty good just wiping through even at 7.

the reason for a pre-packaged map, as well as not having any mods, is for simplicity. this is a newbie game. i dont want to even have to expect anyone to know how to install a mod or map, much less distribute one. next game i probably will. for now i just want to play an MP, i havent done one yet so am looking for similar players who just want to learn a new nation, learn MP, or, well, in general...learn something.

secondly, this game wont go into hall of fame. its a newbie game, once again.

magic sites at 55. i changed it down to 50. personally, I see a very rare difference, and i tend to play SP with over 60, usually 70. then again I guess I do tend to have pretty good gem income with lots of extra gems but then again, i dont know how to use them up either hehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
so 50 will be fine, make gems more rare, though personally i like having lots of magic flying around http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

renojustin: all this being said i dont konw if you fit so well in this game? let me know, but it will be boring for you if youre at the advanced stage to be querying this kind of stuff, i think. i dunno. you have to decide. this wont be a high end "discuss every turn" etc type of game, its just going to be a fun romp through an MP on a standard map. learn a new nation, learn how to play against other players, etc.
and have fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Renojustin]

It sounds fun, but sort of randomly tweaking the settings more toward your SP experience has completely unforseen results, for most anyway. Which means that people who are a little more advanced will see things coming that others won't, and I really don't like to have an advantage. But I guess I can live with it, lol. Anyway it seems like you've put at least a bit o' thought into it.

Be advised that that map is ENORMOUS for twelve players, as well. Really the simpler thing would be to go for the medium random, but it's your show, your call!

And every completed MP game goes toward the Hall of Honors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Looking forward to the game! I've only had one SP game with Mictlan, but I did like them. I'm dreading the micromanagement with a large map like this, though. Turns are going to be taking hours by the third year.

[Ubercat]

Random maps tend to be a crapshoot. I've seen some awesome starting positions vs. some really crappy ones on random maps. The chosen map is probably one of the best balanced in the game. If it's too big, perhaps the game could be upped to 13-14 players.

[Ossa]

Sign me up as Helheim plz!

[Executor]

Just one question is it still without no mods or are we going with Worthy Heroes, like Bwaha asked, couse I have some really good heroes I count on?

[effeDom]

reno: ya i agree, i think the map is too big, but it is reccommended for around 10 to 12 players, cant remember exact reccommendation but something like that.

id rather go random but random maps tend to suck at connecting neighbors, and the barriers are all too few, typically. plus the terrain tends to suck hehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

i have a few random maps that ive generated and edited myself to be all-around more fair but i opt not to use these as i dont want to get into any nonsense of accusations of unfairness etc. i was thinking of using one of the smaller maps, namely paraganos. i think ill swap it to that if the concensus is that we need a smaller map. its a nice looking map though i havent played on it before, seems to be well made and balanced.

5% more magic sites thing i really dont think will make ANY difference (well, it will, supposedly, add 5% more sites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif....5% more sites if the average is 2 sites per province (i think thats probably the rough estimate, no?) means out of 100 provinces=200 sites=10 more sites on 100 provinces.
thats nothing.

mods: i dont know why ppl keep asking....if mods arent listed in the stats thread up top, then obviously they arent gonna be used, i would assume http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
so no....no mods. once again. keeping it simple.

lets have fun everyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Bwaha]

ok, lets rock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Bwaha

[effeDom]

waiting for llama to setup game then we can upload pretenders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif))

maybe we can start monday, or perhaps even, if everyone submits a turn, have turn 2 by monday. well first things first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

anything else need to be discussed before game settings are done, post now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[GrudgeBringer]

I am as new as new can be...I wanted Sauromantia but it is already taken.

I will take Marverni as I have read Baal'z guide and its the only other tribe I have played SP.

Nevr have played MP and will probably be cannon fodder but I need to get my feet wet somewhere.

I have never played MP in thi sgame but am used to LONG games as I plaed AACW and MOO2 Pbem.

I do have One problem...I am somewhat computer challenged and am trying to figure out how to send my Pretender to the Host.

My GF is a whiz so any help and I will be ok.

I will go and read llamabeast's rules and hope you have need for a "The charge of the Dumb Brigade" in your game.

Thanks!!!! Grudgebringer

[Darkstone]

Parganos seems fine.

Smaller maps are more fun, since it means less micro later on.

[anticipatient]

I'm in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif give me 5 minutes to pick a side http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[anticipatient]

I would ilke Lanka please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[effeDom]

im adding you both, game is at 13 players, and closing it up, hows that for anyone else? hope no qualms with 1 extra http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

ive sent a request to llama to host the game. once he does ill see what i have to do as setup goes, and then you can all go to www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) and click on the FreshMeat game and check it, read the llamaserver FAQ to see how to send in your pretenders and all that, its here on the forum.

actually, heres the link, for convenience http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=531121&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=&vc=1

final issue is that the map still needs to be decided on...
i just looked more closely at parganos and i have one issue with it...the entire eastern plain area bordered by those mountain chains to the north and forest to south is wastes, i think i counted 11 provinces all next toeachother, all wastes....
if anyone lands there, they are going to automatically die i think....
i have 2 solutions to that unless i am wrong about the "landing in wastes and youre screwed" concept.
1) i have a good random map i use in SP (well, have started 2 games with it that havent yet finished hehe), its 200 provinces even, with small amount of water mostly land and well placed borders with mountains. lots of good chokepoints, ample farmland (i turned all swamps into farmland instead of swamps), and a good assortment all over the map of "extra sites" provinces and "large" provinces.
ive put it up as an attachment to the first post for whomever wants to look at it.

2) we just use cradle as previously planned, which i think is easier, though it will give us roughly 17 provinces per player with 13 players (the 200 prov random map gives us 15.x something per player, so its a medium map).

i dont care either way id rather that we get 6 or 7 people to look at the random map, and post their vote real quick and make the decision that way.

EDIT x2: ok i cant see where to add an attachment so, that idea is scrapped until someone can tell me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif .... or we just play on cradle....(unless that parganos really isnt a problem with the wastes area)

[Renojustin]

I'm up for Cradle now, or whatever the game organizer decides. I have had one or two small problems with neighbor connectivity before, but I've always liked the pure randomness of capital placement in random maps, just seemed to make it a lot spicier. But I liked your point on the openness of random maps, too. As long as it's not Glory of Gods; man that map is just pure crap! No mobility whatsoever. Cradle looks pretty fun to me.

50 sounds good for magic sites, too. Really it's the 7 indy strength that concerns me the most. That's a 40% increase from default, and can change a lot of things.

Other than that, I have no concerns. Er, llamaserver is PBEM isn't it? We could possibly get Gandalf Parker to host a network game on his server; it's sooo much easier and friendlier...

[effeDom]

who is gandalf parker and where is his server?
though, for this game, i will wait for llama because he already graciously offered to host us and i want to try on his server anyway.

next game on gandalf's http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif i read somewhere here though that he was gone or something?

i havent found any info on any other servers aside from the goon gaming tool (which hosts both pbem and network games...actually no i think it doesnt host it just lists them) and llamaserver.

[Renojustin]

One of his servers went down, the other one is just fine. Man, it's really a huge convinience to play on network rather than PBEM!

You don't need to send emails or files or what-have-you, just log in and play your turn. For those who have to pay by the minute, you can just log in and it will download the turn, at which point you can disconnect and play your turn. When you connect to the network again, it will upload your turn into the game. Easy as frickin pie! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Okay, game set up, you can now send in pretenders. If you've not played on the LlamaServer before, check my FAQ (link in my sig) for how to send in your pretender.

[Renojustin]

Sigh. It's not too late to change to network...

[Ballbarian]

ok i cant see where to add an attachment so, that idea is scrapped until someone can tell me



If you use "Quick Reply" at the bottom of the page, you can hit the "Preview Reply" button and you will see a preview of you text and a button called "Browse". Click it to find your file. Make sure you have zipped it first unless you are just uploading text or browser friendly images.

Once the file is selected, click "Ok Submit" and it will upload the file and show up as an attachment at the top of your post.

Hope that helps. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Renojustin]

Do we really want to PBEM if these attachments are giving people trouble effe? We'll have to do this every single turn of the game. Kind of a pain.

[Ballbarian]

Unless I completely misunderstood, he was trying to figure out how to attach a random map he had for the players to check out. In other words, an attachment to his post on the forums and not anything to do with email or LlamaServer.

[Renojustin]

Is it just me, or do you not have to put an attachment in your emails to send in your turn? Heh, really though, just trying to do my best to help the players out here, I guess I've said my piece at this point!

[Ballbarian]

Yes. You do have to use attachments in email to send and receive your turns. (It's really not that much trouble.)
LlamaServer FAQ (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=531116)

[anticipatient]

I was surprised to find that pbem is actually really enjoyable!! This will be my second one.

[Executor]

PBEM is much better, and safer, the server crashed in a game I was playing,
( I actually had a shot of winning ), they say that happens rarely, but I'm not very optimistic now.

[meister_miagi]

I actually prefer the llamaserver to network hosted games.

[Renojustin]

Safer, only if the host does not keep a backup of the game. Better? Not by a long shot. Explain how you can possibly justify that when in a network game, you are always a click away from downloading or uploading your turn.

[Darkstone]

Everything on the llamaserver is saved (backed up).

Renojustin, if you're really unhappy with PBEM, I don't think anyone will hold you to staying in this game, but I think it being PBEM was pretty clear from the first post?

(I hope that didn't come off as sounding mean or whatnot, that's not how I meant it).

[Renojustin]

When did I say anything about the state of Llamaserver's backup status?

It would be terrific if someone would intelligently debate the relative merits of the question at hand rather than using straw men arguments or telling people that they're welcome to leave instead. I'm aware that I'm able to leave, thanks for the friendly reminder. And no, the game wasn't set to be PBEM from the first post. Neither am I saying that the game MUST be Network.

What I don't see is how anyone could consider PBEM games to be anywhere near as convinient as a backed-up Network game based on the actual realities of the two systems. If you want to refute the fact of the matter, please do it with actual logic instead of unsupported opinions or thinly veiled hostility.

The truth is that a network game does exactly the same thing that a PBEM games does, except that it is vastly easier to upload and submit turns. And nobody can possibly deny that. So I'm not really sure where you guys get your opinions and aggression from, but to me it just sounds like argument for the sake of being contrary. I'm only trying to simplify the game, which some of us may be playing for a long time. I could sure use the extra hour or two in my life that I'd gain from NOT having to deal with PBEM over 100 turns.

[llamabeast]

There have always been people on the forum who would only play network games, and others who would only play PBEM, and most people don't mind too much. There are advantages to both setups.

Here are some advantages to PBEM:
- It's easier to see the game status from the website than by logging into the game, particularly if (a) you're at work, or (b) you've already half-completed your turn, so you can't connect to the server without your turn being uploaded and there being some danger of hosting occurring using your incomplete turn.
- It's easier to play multiple games at once; you don't have to either keep on retyping the host address/port number, or setting up a load of different shortcuts to dominions each one specifying a different host and port number
- It's easier to keep backups of past turns, since they're kept in your e-mail by default. This can be pretty handy to look at old messages/events, or even just for fun to watch the history of your game
- It is possible for someone other than the owner of the computer to easily admin a game; Dominions itself is rather hard to control smoothly from elsewhere while it's running, while the LlamaServer has the Admin Options interface. I think this is actually fairly key.
- In case of a glitch, e.g. temporary loss of internet access, a PBEM server is much less badly affected than a network server and doesn't need human attention to resuscitate

These are all reasonably minor issues of course, but then again so is the time taken to use PBEM. If you are using a decent mail program (e.g. Thunderbird, or presumably Outlook Express though i haven't used that for some years) it's a matter of moments. I would say when I get a turn e-mail, I will have the game open in literally 5 seconds (since Thunderbird remembers which folder you save your attachments to, and I don't save that many apart from dom3 files).

If you use webmail on the other hand, I can imagine it would be a bit more annoying.

[Renojustin]

Thank you Llamabeast!

Although I do have to say that points 1 through 3 are a bit of malarky there, since

1) in the two network games that I've played, both had an independent internet page dedicated to turn status

2) typing in the host address and port number is easier than sending attachments and/or moving files around into save folders with webmail, and

3) all it takes is the desire to save a turn and it's as easy as point and click.

Points 4 and 5 are exactly what I was looking for, however. Thank you for taking the time to explain the advantages of PBEM to us.

[llamabeast]

Cool, glad that was helpful.

2) and 3) I guess are very much subjective, in particular I never could be bothered to save my old turns before so I find that helpful, but you're right that it's a fairly trivial task. As for 1) - good point, I had forgotten how far the network games have come since I last played one and the status pages and notification e-mails they have now are very cool.

Incidentally if anyone is using an e-mail account they have to check via a website, I highly recommend seeing if you can get Thunderbird or some other e-mail program set up, they make everything vastly easier.

[Executor]

I don't either have anything against network games, only typing in the host address and port number, that really bothers me becouse I have a habit of always checking the status, but I do prefer PBEM becouse It's easier for me not having to check both my mail and then network and like Ilama said it takes literally 5 seconds to attach the file,
But I'm good with either so whatever you decide is fine by me!

And I think it's easier if you need a sub for a few days you just forward the turn, and you can see what the sub did, or didn't do...

[effeDom]

well damn, now if you look at this last page its all just complaining (of stuff thats already been resolved from previous complaining)...
renojustin, really, i dont enjoy the idea of playing with you in this game anymore at this point. i am going to ask that you leave this game and the reasons i think are justified:

1) i had already gotten some private messages warning me of your habits and had said i would keep an eye out but that otherwise i really didnt think anything would be a problem. I didnt think it would be a problem.

2) ever since your first post here you have complained about something. I even changed settings a bit just for you. nobody else wanted to change anything. on this same subject, i will say that discussing/complaining a setting is quite fine, i even asked people to do so, however it got a bit "nit picky" from you, wanting specific settings then saying if they werent EXACTLY that way, it was unfairly favoring me/my play style. which is absurd. furthermore on this subject, your requests at first were quite fine i must add...you gave good reasons etc and it was constructive, however every post thereafter became more and more demanding (changing the hosting server i think takes the cake) to change the game the way you wanted it.
finally resulting in you even trying to "logically debatefully force" us to change hosting server.

3) as far as hosting server, really, i am up for anything. HOWEVER, since this thread was started, certain things were set in stone. llamaserver is hosting, thats set in stone. EA for example, thats also set in stone. its a newbie game, that as well...set in stone. there are certain "attributes" if you will to games that people setup that are sortof, you know, the whole concept of what that game is going to be. coming along and wanting to change these 'attributes' is idiotic (read: non-logical;).

4) this reason is i would say my main motivation for asking you to leave, and that is, you are not a newbie. because of the whole non stop complaining i decided to investigate what some of those other players had told me in PM and read up a few other game threads they pointed me to where you had gotten into some issues with players as well. i learned 2 things from this. a) getting into issues isnt new to you, but more importantly, b) you have played alot of MP and obviously with 380+ posts youve been active here awhile. this game is dedicated for those who havent played MP much and havent been here awhile.

these things i have all stated from the very beginning, and repeated myself numerous times.

thank you for your contributions, they have, in fact, been constructive. i will look into network hosting later. i dont agree with your more or less one-sided favoring of network games, though i do agree that, given a perfect world with a perfect network server (that adds perhaps some backup stuff and functionality that would try to match the bonuses of playing PBEM), then network playing would be obviously superior to non-network. as another player has said though, and as ive read on these boards more often than not, network games tend to not be reliable.
maybe one day ill set one up, with a hosting server. for now, no.

conclusion to all this nonsense that i didnt want to type:
this game isnt for you, and theres nothing negative about that, i just think its quite obvious.
when im not a newb so much myself it will be interesting to play a game with you, youre obviously an active player who is quite into all the workings and balances of the game, and want to make games run better/efficiently etc (which is good!) so until that time, ciao...
this game, i repeat, for everyone, is for newbies who dont much have a clue. its not going to be any important game, and no it wont be going towards hall of honor/fame whatever its called.

lets get playing everyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[effeDom]

edit: nevermind the changing nations business, then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


whats the consensus, btw, of changing nation at this point (before uploading pretender, obviously)??

i was going to try atlantis last night, i was looking at them but was quite sick/headache yesterday (swedish midsommar partying for teh win) so didnt bother with it... and since nobody took water guys....well not much water and its seperated but thats still probably nice to be alone in the water. also i have always wanted to try atlantis, havent actually ever played them haha. so this might be suicide.

if that is considered bad let me know, i thought about it a bit but i dont know the convention of MP, ive seen players swap nations plenty i just dont know if its considered bad or what?

im going to upload an atlantis pretender and change my nation in the top thread, and if anyone complains (or wants to swap theirs for abysia, which i had taken) then please let us know (well, in the case that people complain i will swap back, abysia is my fav nation anyway so i have no qualms there:) -- in the case that someone wants abysia, and then someone else wants that persons previous nation, and then someone else wants THAT persons....etc etc...well then if a chain reaction goes off here ill just swap back to abysia as well.

[majuva68]

I think you don't change.All took nation and now when you see nobody took water nation you change.It's no good

[Executor]

I have no problem with anybody changing nations atlantis or whatever, there are 12 of us now, that means about 17-18 ladns per player, and you start alone in water and get 22 ( as I've seen that always bothers at least a couple of players ) , but like you said you never played Atlantis and it's not too much of a difference anyway.
For the record I don't mind, so lets get the game started!!!

[Gandalf Parker]

There are advantages to PbEM altho I tend to speak more as a server than as a player. A PbEM server can easily run 20 games for each one that a direct-connect server runs. Changes to the game are easier to do. Update patches are easier to do. Its easier to manage the server for multiple purposes (not having to dedicate it to purely a Dominions server). Since every player tends to automatically have a backup copy, arguments are easier to moderate by suggesting do-overs. And a PbEM server can schedule hostings so that much larger games can be run without impacting each other.

IF (big if) Shrapnel ever decided to do an official server I would highly expect it to be a PbEM server. Direct connect games are great when one of the players hosts one game they are in. But running a server full of them is a major pain I can totally verify. (major kudos to the developers by the way for ironing out the server side to not be such a hog having multiple copies of Dominions running at the same time)

[effeDom]

actually with this # it would be prov-per-player land advantage slightly...
with 11 land players, thats 199 land/11 = 18.09 each
there are 22 water provinces but 3 of them are "inland"...non-accessible to other water provinces (think: huge lakes). so that gives a single water nation 19, however all water provinces border land provs, which makes imo this a very hard water nation map to play. i tried it with LA r'hley awhile back and only because they are easy to get on land was i able to corner off the top/right of the map and then fight off atlantis in the water...otherwise wouldve been screwed because even patala was attacking me in the water by that point haha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

anyway, no worries. lets leave it how it is and just play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

upload pretenders everyone!!! gogogo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

[Renojustin]

Wow, effeDom, I really didn't expect this from you. I was only exhorting the values of Network over PBEM, I never said anything about having to play on it. In fact I SPECIFICALLY explained that I was happy playing on anything, but apparently you did not read my posts... you just jumped on the let's-be-mean-to-Renojustin bandwagon.

I have played in TWO multiplayer games, the first of which was cancelled due to Gandalf Parker's server going down and the second of which I was forced to leave very early in the game due to extreme personal reasons IRL. Most of the people in this game have more MP experience than me, and I joined the forum community only three months before you. There are much older players in this game than I. The fact that someone is active on the forums is no reason to remove them from the game.

So please don't try to justify and rationalize your reasons for trying to exclude me from the game. The fact of the matter is that I joined this game in good faith and apparently now there's some kind of conspiracy to remove me from it. What exactly are you afraid of?

I patiently and unnecessarily explained what happened to me in the game I was forced to leave to the person who aggressively attacked me about it (completely unjustifiably), who has now gone behind my back after saying that they'd be happy to play with me in PM.

So I keep hearing about how fantastic the Dominions 3 community is supposed to be, but lately have met with nothing but unwarranted aggression and bullying. If you don't want me to play in this game, that is your choice, and if you read my posts, I've always said that everything in this game is your choice... but your reasoning for it so far would be completely specious and it would not be an honorable or fair thing to do.

[Gandalf Parker]

MODERATOR NOTE:
Posts back and forth between individuals and about individuals endanger a thread. Please take such conversations to private messaging.

[llamabeast]

Sounds like a PM job to me too. I haven't bothered to read all the above posts - please keep me informed if I need to remove any pretenders for nations people have changed from or anything.

[effeDom]

i sent him a PM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
honestly i wish i could delete this last page entirely. 1 of 2 pages in this thread is just blubber, really http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
cluttering up a game thread before its even off the ground, for teh win! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[llamabeast]

Well no one will look at this page shortly. In the meantime the best way to fill up the thread is with role-playing stuff from your pretender. That's always good fun.

[GrudgeBringer]

Well.....for better or for worse I will post my 2 cents worth.

I have NO CLUE what one half the stuff your talking about.

What I DO know is this is supposed to ne a Newbie game.

So guys like me can get our feat wet, noses bloodied, and see why all those neat things I did in SP....just won't work.

The guy set up the game the way he wanted it...we joined it, lets live with it and get it under way.

If he wants to change to a water nation thats ok with me.

If someone wants his old nation...thats ok with me.

If someone here is NOT a new guy....Thats NOT ok with me.

I won't last long anyway but I DO want to play with other guys that more or less are the same level.

If someone just wants to thrash everyone so they can get points then to me thats kind of like having the Yankees playing a little league team. They will win but who cares.

Lets lock and load so I can do my Marverni Kama-kazi and GOOD LUCK to ALL!!!!!!!

[Darkstone]

Llamabeast, I sent my pretender file earlier today, and it's still not showing up there.

I recall this happened in the other game I was in.

Any suggestions as to what I should do?

[Executor]

I couldn't agree more with you GrudgeBringer,
Even I've lost track of to everything said and tend to follow up all the posts.
And yes I also agree with you effeDom it is a very hard map to play with a water nation.

[Bwaha]

hi, i'm still fighting vista, hope to win and get my pretender in. have i said I HATE WINDOWS VISTA yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif Bwaha

[anticipatient]

I HATE WINDOWS VISTA TOO!!!!

Anyway, Grudgebringer, try checking out the dominions chat on iRC. It'll help a lot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It's on gamesurge.net, channel #dominions. I'm new too, but lovely people there have helped me quite a bit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Quoting Gandalf Parker's post:

IRC (Internet Relay Chat)
There is also a Dominions chat room on GameSurge.net
Server: irc.gamesurge.net
channel: #dominions
port: 6667

[llamabeast]

Here's an old thread about finding Dom3 files on Vista:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=dom3&Number=533035&fpart=1 &PHPSESSID=

The second response is the useful one.

Darkstone - curious - maybe PM me with what you did. Also just try e-mailing again, and cc me (llamabeast[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net) in.

[Bwaha]

My thanks to you all. i got my pretender in. Bwaha

[effeDom]

i gave darkstone until tomorrow to submit his pretender, otherwise we start without him.

and the issue with reno is over with i hope we can drop it completely off the edge. unfortunately even after i PM him nicely and even invite him to play next game wherever i happen to do that he just blames me for more rubbish and yells at me. oh well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif i think it would be nice if he could join someones game though. active player and seems interested in all the inner working stuff but, well thats all ill say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif he probly call more me names even for this much eheh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif))

llama are you getting my PMs by the way? i didnt see a reply from the PM i sent you a day or two ago about setting up the game etc. also lowering player count, if possible.

will the game only start when it hits 13 players now??

[Darkstone]

Alright, I've sent it again. Hopefully this will work, and if it doesn't, not sure what to do, don't want to hold up everyone else.

I'll resign from the game if it can't be resolved by tomorrow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Bwaha]

hey i think i may have a soulution to the vista problem. it worked for me. go to the windows start button, then in the search box type newlords, after a while it will magicly show up. minimize this screen, then create a new folder, copy the file into your new folder and behold the hiddin files are now easily manipulated. friken fraken window vista. why the hell would they hide your files from you it just makes no sense. wheres the unibomber when you need him.... just kidding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Bwaha

[Bwaha]

hey while your waiting if i may, veterans of the psychic wars by blue oyster cult is great dominions mood music. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Bwaha

[Renojustin]

effeDom said:

and the issue with reno is over with i hope we can drop it completely off the edge. unfortunately even after i PM him nicely and even invite him to play next game wherever i happen to do that he just blames me for more rubbish and yells at me. oh well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif i think it would be nice if he could join someones game though. active player and seems interested in all the inner working stuff but, well thats all ill say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif he probly call more me names even for this much eheh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif))




Don't blame your obvious cowardice on me when you're the one using obscenities and harassing me in PMs, guy. You didn't do anything nicely.

[Bwaha]

dude i'm not here for a flame war. i'm here to have fun. why don't you host a game. this way the settings are to your liking. futher the only insult i sent via private email is that you sound like a 12 year old. this will be my last post here to cause you to stop mudding our waters. thank you for you time Bwaha. ps i'm still in i hope http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ballbarian]

I am going to simply repeat Gandalf and llamabeast's words of wisdom:

Gandalf:
MODERATOR NOTE:
Posts back and forth between individuals and about individuals endanger a thread. Please take such conversations to private messaging.

llamabeast:
In the meantime the best way to fill up the thread is with role-playing stuff from your pretender. That's always good fun.


So, let's drop it and get on with the wonderful warfare and mayhem please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Bwaha]

deep in my slumber i dream. a dream of life and joy. pretty little elven lasses. knights of glory and fame. soon we will share our joy with the various independent provinces and even some of the unfortunate non-alligned "pretenders". ZZZZZ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Bwaha

[GrudgeBringer]

I just thought of something that (sigh) COULD be real important to me.

I have been so happy over learning how to send a pretender that I sent a another one just to see if it worked (it does).

So how will I know when the game starts (this is my first MP on here)?

Will I get an e-mail?

I read how to setup a different file ect but not sure how all this is done.

Any hints before I make a bigger fool out of myself than I will anyway?

[Bwaha]

if you click on the llamabeast link it takes to his site. this is where you find info on the game. it looks like we are waiting for pretenders... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Bwaha

[anticipatient]

Llamaserver FAQ is here http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=531116

You will get an email with the first turn when it starts. Just put it in a folder under your saved games folder. IE .../dominions3/savedgames/freshmeat

[llamabeast]

Yo guys, apologies for my silence effedom. I wrote a long answer to your PM, then had a power cut, and was so tired I couldn't face starting again. Anyway, I have to start the game manually so just let me know when all the pretenders are in and I'll start it up for you. I'll remember to remove Reno's pretender as well.

[effeDom]

thanks, please start game tonight (at your latest convenience) if darkstone is or isnt in...thats about as long as we can give him.

and yes remove reno. pretty incredible he would still send in a pretender after being told to leave.
not so incredible that everyone was very happy when i did remove him, though, i sortof realize that now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.
now even saying i send him obsceneties and harrass him in PM haha...wow, what a loser. i would be happy to post the message i sent him. something i doubt he would. i dont think anyone here has been nicer to him than me even after his crap, but enough is enough.

by the way, taking this to PMs is pointless, because it is not a 1 to 1 issue. personally i dont care about reno, why the hell i should have to PM or even talk to him is beyond me. its more of an issue that about 4-5 players in this game have made it clear that they already dont like him and didnt want to play with him, for stuff he's done before. this is not something that can be sorted via PMs so that typical mantra of mods "take it to PMs" is just evasive and causes more problems, because the real problem never gets solved.

that being said, real problem solved would be removing reno from this thread entirely.
is there any way to ban a user from a thread that you make?
i really just dont want reno justin to be posting here at all, and i think everyone else wants the same.

right now anyway he is just a lost case, being nice to him doesnt work so the only other thing to do is ignore him, but he is already coming back to bother us even when he's been out of the game for 2 days or so now. can you lock him out of this thread please?
thanks whatever you can do.
dont worry about the lost message llama http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[GrudgeBringer]

OK....Prepare yourselves for the MIGHTY Marverni Paratrooper Druids dropping out of the clear blue sky!!!

We have gathered around the fire and drank our Holy Wine and made peace with the great God, tied a ribbon around our head and have started chanting....Beware!!!

Seriously...I have the folder made but the folder only says "Freshmeat" although it IS in the same general File as My other saved solos games (each one is a independent file) amd the Newlords file.

In the faq it has that I should create a file saying 'dominions3\savedgames\Freshmeat mine only says freshmeat but it is (as I said) in the same folder as 'Newlords' and my solos saved games just under a different file.

Is this ok....guys this is my first MP and I an somewhat computer challenegd, but once I learn it I am smooth.

So as we are starting, if someone could actually tell me if I am doing it wrong please help me. Because I am reading it that I am ok waiting for the next step.

I have read the Faq 20 times and DID (YEA!!!) manage to send in my pretender (twice I may add) so someone let me know if I am on the right track and I will be fine.

Thanks for all your help and don't worry about that one dude...there is ALWAYS one...just Ignore him, as thats the worst thing a guy like that can have happen!!

[meister_miagi]

You should be fine if the game folder is in the same place as your other savedgames. \dominions3\savedgames\Freshmeat is the destination folder to your saved game, not the filename.

[llamabeast]

Okay, everything is ready for the start apart from Darkstone's pretender. He's tried sending it again, but I think his e-mail must be somehow not working correctly. I'm communicating with him via PM, so hopefully we will be able to get it sorted shortly.

[effeDom]

llama, i asked please start the game without him, we have waited 2 days for him, we wont wait anymore. i send you a PM again to tell you i guess you arent reading the thread ;p

thanks.
should have some automated hosting server, doing manually is too dysfunctional lol. hard to script tho for sure...

[GrudgeBringer]

OK I have 3 or 4 serious questions as to the proper way )if there is any to do things.

1. How do you 'chat' in MP? I realize its not real time and I would suspect it is e-mail...but do you go thru the game or do it on the side?

2. In some MP games I have played there are 2 or 3 different types of agreements (such as Non-Agression pact for a number of turns (10, 15 whatever), Alliance for number of turns or until notice (usually a 5 turn notice that alliance or non-agression is to be broken if its indefinate). Mutual defense treaty ect (same type rules).

My question is....

Do we have (or want ) a structured plan like that.

If we do have a structured plan are we honor bound to follow the rules and not sneak attack someone?

(I for one will ALWAYS be honor bound but I just wanted to make sure of the rules).

And if we DON'T have a structured plan are we Honor Bound if we make an agreement with a player?

Also, IF we DO make an agreement and it is NOT strictired do we need to make it public?

Like I said, I have played a lot of different types of MP (just not this one) and have seen games get busted up because someone didn't know the rules.

I just don't want to get my little feelings hurt if someone stabs me in the back and I think its all Honor bound.

Either way is ok just think we would need to make it clear to the REAL new guys (like me) so I (or they) don't do something to screw up the game.

BTW< I look forward to playing with all you guys (and girls if any) and hope to make some fast friends (especially if you let me win!!!)!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bwaha]

man first glory2 goes into eternal delay, and now this. i'm starting to think that i'm not suited to this style of game. are most of the games this hard to get going? or is it that we all are newbies? in fact thats what going on. well i slumber on ZZZZZ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif Bwaha

[llamabeast]

Started!

[llamabeast]

GrudgeBringer - I suggest you ask that question in a separate post or something. Sorry, I would answer but it will be involved and I need to be in bed!

[Bwaha]

hoorah, game on. played my turn, sent it in,(i hope) because of vista i transfer the file to my flash drive then email it. i think that the way to do this system of playing the email game. if it works great... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Bwaha

[Darkstone]

Alright guys, I was never able to resolve the problem, so I'm out of the game. Oh well.

Good luck with your game.

[Piggles]

I had Worthy Heroes on accidentally when I made my turn, is the game smart enough to turn it off automatically or should I redo it?

[effeDom]

grudge, no rules, we just gonna be a bunch of newbies running around with padded sticks whacking eachother http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

personally i like to honor my treaties, but i see no reason to enforce that somehow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

besides its a game of character too...roleplaying a bit etc....

another thing i want to note is that up in the top left corner, there are 3 players starting quite close, and up in top right corner as well....luckily im neither of these....but given that this map is so big i was thinking it was a bit odd....a few people are only 3 spaces away from another capital.

anyone want a rehost? hehe, i know its a pain in the *** to do that after it took so long to get this thing going (a week! wtf! a week to find a game, a week to get one started....blah!)
anyway its up to all of you. if i was stuck up in the corner right next to 2 other people in a map this big for 11 players, id be none so happy. thats a pretty quick game for 4 people here (considering, probably, 1 person out of each "trio" in each corner will conquer)....

but then again maybe not. maybe they do some treaty. but in that case for the ones pocketed in the corner, they will eventually (very soon) be blocked in unable to expand.

i actually have quite a good position so its a bit of a pity to restart but for sake of a good game, i vote for restart.

maybe darkstone can even figure out how to email a file by then haha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
if 5 more people want restart before hosting tonite, ill ask llama to restart it.
if not we continue.
welcome to the game everyone!
do your turns and submit them in any case, btw...

[Piggles]

Let's wait. If I defeat all my neighbors, we can go on, if they defeat me, then I suggest a restart. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Hehe, j/k. I think restarting is probably the best thing to do, but I understand if some people just want to get on with the game.

[Bwaha]

i'm easy either way. but if theres a restart i would like it to be timely. i ask the players put a vote, yea or ney for restart. if no one votes lets continue, no long debates please. i abstain from this vote because i just want to play and want no more delays. i'm one of the close proximity players and will either win or die and be better for it. maybe a ally with one or both of them, so we can make up for our disadvantage. anyway lets go forward not backward. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Bwaha

[GrudgeBringer]

I havn't looked at the map but a restart is ok with me...(Murphy says I WILL be in the worst position!!) just let me know.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have Gone to the dominions file/saved games/freshmeat file.

I received the e-mail with the marverni_.trn file which I put in that file (I tried to open it but windows xp couldn't do it)

I also received the marverni_.2h file but windows would not open it either.

I went to see if the game maybe didn't need opening and it wasn't in the exisiting games.

Did I do something wrong?

I need to have my turn in by tommorrow so any help would be appreciated Thanks and Heeeeeeeeeeeelp!!

[Bwaha]

okay try this, create a folder anywhere handy. i love my flash drive becuase its not cluttered with a bunch of stuff. then go the the email that contains the turn file. copy don't cut the file. then go back to the folder and paste the turn file there. now that you got that little bugger pinned down its easy to manipulate. i'm still new at this but i found this to work. i'm sure there's a better way, but it works for me. (i hope) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Bwaha

[Executor]

GrundeBringer- there are agreements Non-Agression etc. and most player ARE honorable and won't sneak attack you, there is always a couple of turn notice, but I've been betrayed twice so far ( man that can be nasty ), so now I'm always on the look out, treaty on no treaty.
And I think something of a black list should be created for this so you should know who to thrust.

[Calahan]

Good to hear the game is up and running :-)

Haven't had chance to check out where I've started, but if 2 seperate groups of 3 players have started on top of each other, then I'd certainly vote for a re-start.

11 players on 'Cradle' should be plenty of space for everyone to have a decent start, even without a water nation. But it sounds like 3-4 players won't survive long enough to learn anything, or have any fun :-( And all us newbee's are here to learn and have fun right? :-)

I won't be able to get my turn done until tomorrow anyway (luckily for me it's 48hrs first turn) so a re-start might not be that big a delay at the end of the day.

(Edit) ps. If there is a re-start, we can give Darkstone another chance to get in if he still fancies it. As from his posts it looks like he's missed out through no fault of his own, and certainly not through lack of trying.

[majuva68]

Restart if you want.

[llamabeast]

We can restart if you want. I think I have an old version of cradle with perhaps 13 hand-placed start positions. If we use that obviously people won't be perfectly evenly spaced (there not being 13 of you), but it might be a little better.

If you really want good start positions you have to hand-place them, but that is really hard work.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thanks for the help everyone ....

I deleted ALL my games (including the tutorial),created another file and just put the 2 files in there (TRN and the 2h) worked like a charm. As usual I sent in a revised same turn just to make sure I knew what I was doing....Problem resolved.

It looks like I am ok in the placement but a restart is fine with me.

I agree that it would be no fun to look forward to this game and then be fighting from turn 3 knowing you have NO chance to just get your feet wet.

I also agree that DarksStone tried his best and i can wait another 48 hours if we need to to get him in and get everyone situated in a good spot.

It seems from what I've read these games go on for months, 48 hours isn't gonna hurt anything.

Just my 2 cents worth

[effeDom]

i sent a PM to llama to request a restart.

oh well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

then another thing came up with me, and it might in the next week or two not allow me to put in a turn. haha. i think the fates dont want me to play MP just yet.

first im having a problem with my dom3, its happening mostly just with this MP game....i posted a bug in the forum about it but there is no reply or fix for it yet (it does however make the game unplayable as all input aside from dragging the map with mouse totally disappears)...

second thing was that i thought i would be living in one place for awhile with a new job, but, i stopped the job yesterday after some issues that were apparent and instead i think ill be moving back to sweden (im in spain now).

this being said i want someone else to host. also i will be dropping, so, maybe you all want to change map as well and/or wait for another few players?

hosting really doesnt involve much, there is an admin options menu where you can configure a few things but its not even necessary...otherwise its just moving the game along more or less, as far as i can see.

someone who knows how to use a computer and copy files though, preferably ;-)....i think its rather comical (no offense) that a few of you are seriously having problems copying a friggin file which is stopping you from playing or whatnot.
seriously. computers are not magic boxes. we live in a technology age, get with the program! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)
(im a software engineer now, but, then again, i still figured out computers when i was no more than maybe 10 years old, and i was cracking apart games to make cheat programs or mods by the time i was 14....if a 10 year old can do it, so can you!;)

[Ubercat]

I'm willing to host the restart. I recommend sticking with Cradle as I think it's the best MP map; especially for new players. It seems balanced, with plenty of choke points for securing borders. Also, my SP experiments have led me to the conclusion that 13 players is a good number for it.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thanks effeDom for your efforts in trying to get this together. I wish you all the best in your move to Sweden and hope to see you back on here when you get settled.

That being said, I (GrudgeBringer) AM IN for the new game.

IF Executor does not want Sauromatia I would like that race.

If he stays with it I will stay with Marverni as I want to try Baalz's strategy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[effeDom]

have fun guys, thanks ubercat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

send llama a PM, he will rehost the game and send you a PW to login to admin options.

and now, to finally get out of latino countries....aaaaaaaaaahhh!!! runnnnnn!!!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif))

[Ubercat]

Allright, I PM'd Llammabeast. I'm a little confused. How many players do we have now? Is it 11? Should we wait for two more?

Also, do we want to stick with indy strength 7? I had qualms about that in a newbie game, but didn't speak up before. 5 would decrease the odds of someone having his first army bashed and losing a couple of turns to get back up to speed. I'm embarrassed to admit it recently happened to me in SP.

[Piggles]

I'm okay with changing indie strength. Also, do we want to have it set so that victory points match up with player capitals? I feel like that takes away much of the mystery and uncertainty in the beginning.

[Bwaha]

ZZZZZ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif Bwaha i'm still in. has someone told llamabeast that we're starting over?

[Calahan]

Hope we get a quick re-start here :-)

Please don't spend another week arguing over the settings like what happened the first time around.

[Executor]

To GrundeBringer- Sorry but I think I'm gonna stick with Saromatia, never played with them before and they seem nice, other then them maybe I would try caelum, if we are still waiting for more players I'll consider caelum, anyway I'll PM you, or then again post here if I'm changing anything, but I ain't making promises!

[Executor]

I'm staying with Sauromatia, sorry...
Caelum really lacks magic diversity, and have astral n.spells and no astral mages to begin with.

[Bwaha]

please, more fighting, at least one turn of fighting is all i ask. come on people i have a pair of blue b*lls that i want to release on some indies and maybe someone else. i can't play/fight anyone til we really start. so in closing, i say lets either abandon this game and are released from our commitments to play or get this game going with the understanding that if somethimg in real life gets in the way that we will notify/post this to everyone instantly. Bwaha

[llamabeast]

This game will restart today, fear not!

[GrudgeBringer]

Thanks Excutor for answering...NP, I just have played them the most in SP. They are a good race but what seems on the surface as good isn't exactly the best.....my hint to you.

Doesn't matter that much to me and it sounds like llamabeast is going to start the game today, but if INDIES are set higher then you have a little more time to set your Kingdom up before meeting someone.

Just a thought, makes no difference to me as playing Marverni will be challenge enough.

I would like to know how many we have, other than that....lets get the fighting underway!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Bwaha]

what do we do? send in pretenders again? or is it all good? have to work today so will be back around 8 pm to check on things. hope to be playing with you all soon. Bwaha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Executor]

Shouldn't we bring in another player or two, this is a somewhat BIG map for, how many of us is there now 10 or 11, anyway thats too much still, over 20 provinces per player,
but I don't wanna delay the game even more with my nonsense,
and that red-wek-neck dude whatever his name is and now with effeDom moving (all the best to you man).
It would be really nice to start this soon.

And one question if you don't mind answering please, ( not related to this game ), If you ask someone for a NAP, and he doesn't say nothing but, I killed you messinger bla,bla,bla,
and a couple of turn later I attack him, Is that really unhonourable?

[anticipatient]

No, if you offer NAP and he doesn't respond, feel free to attack him.

[GrudgeBringer]

Is this game going to be a go?

Or are we bagging it?

I'm in if we play

[llamabeast]

Right! We have restarted!

I took some executive decisions:

- Indies got set to 6, as a compromise between 5 and 7.
- The victory condition is now a sensible 5 capitals.
- I decided not to wait for more players, as the last newbie game filled up only slowly and I think people's patience here was wearing a little thin (it seems you had quite a cursed game so far). Also I decided to leave the map as Cradle, because it is lovely. Also I've done a 10-player game before on Cradle, and it was really excellent, so I don't think you'll find it to be too big really. Rather, you'll get a little space at the start to develop before you get attacked, which is nice.

Also, this thread is a mess and I can't edit the first post, so I am going to start a new thread and we'll use that one from now on.

Unfortunate as this game has been in getting going, I think it's going to be a really fun one. Good map, interesting nations, and lots of cheerful newbies. So have fun!

Right, move along to the other thread. I will give Ubercat the admin password, so he's the man to ask for extensions and stuff like that. Also he's been in a couple of games before so can answer questions about diplomacy and so on.

[llamabeast]

And one question if you don't mind answering please, ( not related to this game ), If you ask someone for a NAP, and he doesn't say nothing but, I killed you messinger bla,bla,bla,and a couple of turn later I attack him, Is that really unhonourable?



Strange question, really. No, attacking in that situation would be fine I think. The only time people can really get annoyed is if you agree to a non-aggression pact and then break it. Also sometimes people get annoyed if you appear to be in the middle of negotiations when you attack. Of course, you could see that as merely a cunning strategy.

[Ubercat]

Not answering a NAP request is just plain rude in my opinion, but it happens all the time anyway. Not showing another player enough respect to even answer their friendly gesture is insulting and doesn't even hide your hostile intent! You may as well just say "I'm coming after you soon."

If someone offers a NAP and you're secretly planning on attacking them, just say that you aren't ready to commit to anything yet, and you're still exploring your options. Who knows? You might change your mind and accept in a few turns. Circumstances DO change in this game. You have to be ready to adapt your plans.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK GREAT!!

Now what do we do? I have deleted all the stuff out of the file in anticipation of restarting.

I still have my Pretender but got rid of trn file and first turn file.

Do I need someone to send it to me agian?

Also, is everyone still in that we had (minus effeDom)? and are we keeping the same nations?

I'm easy just need to know!!