Keeping Helpful Enemy Dominion Alive...

[DonCorazon]

Do you ever hold off on wiping out an enemy player's last province if his dominion is helping you. eg Magic scales? Does enemy dominion vanish once the last province falls or does it linger? I can't recall...thanks.

[Zeldor]

I was keeping MA C'tis miasma dominion alive [not conquering last fort] because other player had most of his lands. And I wanted him to suffer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DonCorazon]

Sneaky. That is what I thought.

[PvK]

Yes, when there is such a situation. Though the positive side of their scales won't help you unless your own scales are negative. Their dominion vanishes instantly when their god is destroyed, but their scales remain.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah its not possible to ever benefit from positivie enemy scales - tho you can be harmed by negative enemy scales. So the best situation you can hope for is to have terrible scales of your own and have enemy dominion bring you to nuetral.

[Endoperez]

Interestingly enough, enemy Luck is considered Misfortune.

[DonCorazon]

I have Drain - 3 (want to see if I can make it work), they have Magic 3 - it is definitely helping me.

[Endoperez]

DonCorazon said:
I have Drain - 3 (want to see if I can make it work), they have Magic 3 - it is definitely helping me.



Are you actually getting the research bonus from Magic in enemy dominion? As was said, it should only negate the research penalty of Drain.

[Ballbarian]

Negating the research penalty would be pretty helpful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DonCorazon]

Endoperez said:

DonCorazon said:
I have Drain - 3 (want to see if I can make it work), they have Magic 3 - it is definitely helping me.



Are you actually getting the research bonus from Magic in enemy dominion? As was said, it should only negate the research penalty of Drain.



Its negating the penalty as was said. I wasn't contesting that point - just wasn't clear on what Ironhawk had said when he said it was never possible to benefit but I see his point now - I am not getting the bonus - but as I said, it is definitely helpful not to suffer the penalty.

[Endoperez]

That's what I though. Good, no new, strange bugs on sight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[JimMorrison]

Ummmmm, is there anyone here who can corroborate what enemy dominion SHOULD do, and what it DOES do?

I can tell you with absolute certainty that I am being affected by enemy Magic scale (not Drain). It's easy to see on small maps where centers of dominion overlap in strange ways. Also, I am quite positive that Growth as well as Prod provide beneficial effects.

I would not be surprised if only the Luck is different, as it makes perfect sense theat their good luck is your misfortune, but the other scales just are what they are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


(Edit: I thought it important to add, that this is consistent behavior. It has happened to me for so long, I do not question its relevance in my games. Maybe it's because I still play a lot of SP as well, and so don't border on so many vaguely homogenized dominions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)

[Endoperez]

Hostile Luck: it should work as Misfortune. It only enables bad events in the province in question, doesn't affect the ratio of good and bad events in the empire.
Hostile Magic: It should have no effect on research. I tested it, it doesn't help enemy research.
Hostile Growth: I didn't properly test it, but two of my three inquisitors got old age afflictions in hostile Growth 3 dominion.

Preaching province with Order, Production and Growth from hostile to positive dominion: no effect on income, resources or supplies. Population grew even under hostile growth.

I think this means that Order and Production give full benefits even in hostile dominion, Growth gives full supply and income benefits even in hostile dominion but not old age affliction resistance. Hostile magic goesn't give research bonus and lowers everyone's magic resistance.

This leaves only hostile Luck and hostile negative scales as untested. I presume they are all handled as negative scales.

[Twan]

Hostile scales work if the province is under your dominion.

So if you can preach a province to dom 1 without removing ennemy scales you may benefit from his magic research bonus or full effects of other positive scales.

Luck seem to be a different thing as, according to JK, only capitol luck scale determines if events are good or not.

[Psycho]

Twan said:
Hostile scales work if the province is under your dominion.

So if you can preach a province to dom 1 without removing ennemy scales you may benefit from his magic research bonus or full effects of other positive scales.

Luck seem to be a different thing as, according to JK, only capitol luck scale determines if events are good or not.



If so, then taking a pretender such as Lady of Fortune and keeping her in your home province has the same benefit as taking positive luck scales?

[Endoperez]

I thought Lady of Fortune generates good events whereever she dwells without affecting actual Luck scale. I might be confusing her power with some other pretender, like the Tien Chi Jade Emperor or the buddha-like figure.

[JimMorrison]

Endoperez said:
Hostile Luck: it should work as Misfortune. It only enables bad events in the province in question, doesn't affect the ratio of good and bad events in the empire.
Hostile Magic: It should have no effect on research. I tested it, it doesn't help enemy research.
Hostile Growth: I didn't properly test it, but two of my three inquisitors got old age afflictions in hostile Growth 3 dominion.

Preaching province with Order, Production and Growth from hostile to positive dominion: no effect on income, resources or supplies. Population grew even under hostile growth.

I think this means that Order and Production give full benefits even in hostile dominion, Growth gives full supply and income benefits even in hostile dominion but not old age affliction resistance. Hostile magic goesn't give research bonus and lowers everyone's magic resistance.

This leaves only hostile Luck and hostile negative scales as untested. I presume they are all handled as negative scales.




These are interesting observations. The only thing that troubles me is that in a current game, I AM benefiting from an enemy Magic scale. It's Silvan, which is using CBM Scales, so with 2 Magic I am getting +2 RP. One of my castles is in enemy dominion with 1 Magic, and my mages there get +1 RP.

It's possible I suppose, that means you don't get their bonus unless you would get an equal or larger bonus in your dominion, but is that consistent with your checking? And is that even in the realm of possibility, that each scale would be coded to behave differently in enemy dominion? O.o

[MaxWilson]

Jim,

Are you sure you're not confusing it with the experience bonus? Screenshots might help to figure out what's going on, actually.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

MaxWilson said:
Jim,

Are you sure you're not confusing it with the experience bonus? Screenshots might help to figure out what's going on, actually.

-Max




Absolutely not from experience, these are fresh mages just being trained in the province. And since it's a currently running MP game, not sure how I feel about screens..... :S

[Kheldron]

I was quite convinced that you never benefit from an enemy positive scales but was surprised in a game (still running) to benefit from his higher magical scales.

My magic scale is +1 but my fort, though under my dominion, still had magic +3 due to my neighbor and my mages were having +2 in research.
Sadly, being under my dominion, that scale has started to lower. I now only have magic +2 and so I'm back to +1 research.

[Edi]

If the province is under your dominion, even if it has leftover scales from someone else, you benefit. Of course, as your dominion increases, the scales go to your own.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah. At that point they're *your* magic scales, the same as if you had a site that increased Magic. That's probably what Jim was seeing too.

Jim, can you confirm?

-Max

[JimMorrison]

Well I definitely had a black candle in the province in question, at the time that I posted. However, now I'm getting some really weird conflicting observations that tend to suggest I am not benefiting from enemy Magic scale. I'm actually thoroughly confused at this point.

Honestly, while I really enjoy the idea of Luck inverting, I'm not sure I agree with other scales not giving benefit to whoever owns the province. Just seems to me that if your spiritual influence makes a region less OR more prosperous, this would be independent of ownership. < shrug >