TucoTuco - MA game for new/newish players (upload)

[llamabeast]

Since Peccary filled up fast, I thought I'd do another newbie game, this one MA.

Details:
Server: LlamaServer (automated play-by-email)
Hosting interval: Initially 24 hours
Age: Middle
Graphs: On
Settings: Default except for renaming on, HoF 15
Mods: Worthy Heroes 1.8
Map: Modified Parganos (I have a version which has a somewhat fairer spread of terrains than the default, so you don't get one person with all the farmland). This will be a dead seas version, meaning the seas will give no income and contain no magic sites
Players: 8

Please sign up and say what nation you'd like!

Also, I will need someone to admin the game for me. That just means if someone asks for an extension, or later on if players agree to change the hosting interval to 48 hours, the admin does that via the LlamaServer website. It's a very small job if you read the forums reasonably often, and it prevents me from going mad, so if someone would like to volunteer for that I would greatly appreciate it.

The players are:

Pangaea - fakeymcfake
Arcoscephale - Skirmisher
Gath - Cerlin
Caelum - JimMorrison
Abysia - don_Pablo
Bandar Log - Natpy
T'ien Ch'i - Wrana
Vanheim - Darkstone

To upload your pretenders:

- Make sure you don't have any mods enabled, although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions. Don't set a password, since for PBEM games they're not helpful and occasionally annoying (e.g. if you need a sub)
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'TucoTuco' in the subject line of your e-mail

A few minutes later you should get a confirmation e-mail, and if you check the website you should find your nation added to the list of nations which have joined the game.

If later you think of an improvement to your pretender, you can send it in again. Provided the game hasn't actually started the server will accept your revised pretender, and send you an e-mail to say so.

[llamabeast]

I'll reserve a spot for Skirmisher, since he missed out on the last game.

[Piggles]

Bah, on second thought, I don't want to overextend myself. (I have three other games going.) I'll back out, sorry.

[llamabeast]

Probably wise, to be honest. Three games can get a bit much once the turns begin to take longer.

[Fakeymcfake]

Put me down for Pangaea

[Skirmisher]

Arcoscephale for me please, thanks for saving a spot.

I've just played EA so far,is MA higher tech or something?

[Cerlin]

Id play as new MA Gath nation if you dont mind.

Edit: if not thats ok too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[JimMorrison]

(That would be be MA Ashdod, I believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)


I tried to resist, the best that I could..... I should like to take Caelum for a spin, if I may. <3

[don_Pablo]

Abysia please )

[Natpy]

Bandar Log please.

Where can I get this map?

[Wrana]

If I count - and I lost 1 MP, while another is currently unfinished (while well enough for me), then I would like to participate also. Another consideration that I would have to find a sub for an end of the August - beginning of the September. But I can be killed before that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I would like to play Tien Chi.
And do default settings include Independents set at 5?

[llamabeast]

Okay, we have space for just one more then.

I've attached the map to the first post.

[Wrana]

Thank you. Now to the drawing board... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Darkstone]

I'll join.

Vanheim please.

[Skirmisher]

Couple questions about MP.

1) How do you properly install the mod?

2) In multiplayer we are responsible for one turn per day?


Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Mod installation is fairly easy, for this one all you had to do was unzip the file into your dominions 3 folder then enable it when you get into the game. As for the turn rotation I think he said we're going to start off at 24 hour turn rotations then possibly move to 48 once things get more complicated.

If you're still unclear about anything check the FAQs thread and it should answer most of your questions and if it isn't covered there don't ask me, I'm just as new here.

[llamabeast]

Skirmisher: 1) To install the mod you just need to unzip all the contents of the zip file (which you can find in the modding subforum, or I can link to if it's hard to find) into the dominions3/mods folder. You don't even need to enable it for it to work. (If you enable it via Preferences in dominions, that only affects which mods any new games you create will use).

2) Yep, it'll be one turn per day until the consensus is that it needs to move to 48 hours. Actually it'll be 24 hour quickhost, which means that hosting will take place when either (a) 24 hours have passed since last hosting, or (b) all players have got their turns in. Therefore the hosting time tends to creep forward, since generally all players will get their turns in before the deadline.

[Skirmisher]

OK I downloaded the mod and installed it into the mod folder. What about the map that comes with it, is that needed too?

Should I see the mod listed in prefrences? I don't.

[Darkstone]

1)You put the .dm file into the mod folder in your dominions game. Then inside Dominions, you go to 'Preferences', then 'Mod Preferences', and then you click on the mod you want active to turn it on, in this case, Worthy Heroes 1.8

After that, when you make your pretender, it's set up to play under the mods you had active, when you create it.

2)As for how many turns, that depends on the admin, who usually sets it based on what people in the game want. Usually starting at 1 turn a day, then after around 30-40 turns, to 1 turn every 2 days, and possibly after 70 turns to 1 turn every 3 days. This is due to the turns taking longer and longer to do as the game involves more massive armies and many spells.

3)Yes, the map is needed as well. You'll want to download it from the attachment link from Llamabeast's post at the beginning of the thread. Then you unzip it, and place it inside the map folder in your dominions game.

4)Yes, you should see it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You should see it after you click on Preferences, then Mod Preferences.

[Skirmisher]

Ok I see the mod under preferences.

I downloaded the map from the first post in this thread.
But what about the map that comes with the mod? Do I need that to?

Thank you everybody for you help.

[llamabeast]

The map that comes with the mod is just some test map you can use to see all the worthy heroes. You don't actually need it.

[llamabeast]

Okay brilliant, we have everyone and you can now upload pretenders. Here's how:


- Make sure you don't have any mods enabled, although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions. Don't set a password, since for PBEM games they're not helpful and occasionally annoying (e.g. if you need a sub)
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'TucoTuco' in the subject line of your e-mail

A few minutes later you should get a confirmation e-mail, and if you check the website you should find your nation added to the list of nations which have joined the game.

If later you think of an improvement to your pretender, you can send it in again. Provided the game hasn't actually started the server will accept your revised pretender, and send you an e-mail to say so.

[Darkstone]

There might be a mistake, at the llamaserver, it says TucoTuco is a Early Age game?

[llamabeast]

Well spotted - fixed!

Curiously it still let you send in middle age pretenders. Hmm. I wonder if I've got a bug there.

[Darkstone]

So, we're still missing Gath, Caelum, and T'ien Ch'i.

I'll send them some PM's to remind them to send their pretenders.

[JimMorrison]

Indeed. I was up late last night creating my pretender ad nauseum in an attempt to get the titles that she so richly deserves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I passed out at some point, but will get my file in posthaste, on the double, without further ado, and in the nick of time. >.>

[ano]

There's no Gath in Middle Age. Llama, you should probably correct the first post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.
Also it'll be fun if Cerlin sends in a Gath pretender

[JimMorrison]

JimMorrison said:
(That would be be MA Ashdod, I believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)




Crazy admins. <3

[Wrana]

Well, probably Gath is easier to pronounce... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Also, maybe it's time to start today? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[llamabeast]

Right, game started! Let me know if you have any problems. Between the e-mail you get and my FAQ though, hopefully everything should be quite straightforward.

The first turn has 48 hours on the clock, in case of any problems. Subsequent turns will have 24 hours.

From my own experience, I would say one of the best ways to make it into an awesome game is to do lots of diplomacy and roleplaying. Send your neighbours messages, make plans and alliances. Post here with battle reports and stories of what your pretender's been up to. Between you, you're making an epic.

Have fun everyone!

[Wrana]

A question - I see on the map something like Victory Points, but don't see them as conditions. What does that mean?

[Skirmisher]

How many turns would you say an average game is?

[Darkstone]

Victory points don't count for victory unless it's selected as a victory condition.

So in this game, the provinces with one of them will count as an 'extra temple' so to speak, they will spread your dominion if you control them.

I haven't ever finished an MP game, but if I had to guess, most games end before a 100 turns. (With larger games probably having more turns).

[JimMorrison]

I get the impression that the majority of games end between 50-70 turns. Depending on size of map, of course, some may go longer than that, rare that there is a clear winner before then, unless it's a skirmish/blitz game.

[llamabeast]

50-70 is about right.

If there are crowns on the map then yep, they don't do anything apart from generate a little dominion (I think a 50% chance of a candle each turn) for whoever controls them.

You guys should post more! What's happening in the world of TucoTuco?

[Wrana]

One word - scouting!

[Fakeymcfake]

What Wrana said. That and raising a horde of angry angry half-men to spread my glory and crush the.... ah.... I mean some research too.

[JimMorrison]

The peaceful denizens of the Eagle Mountain continue to roam, spreading our superior culture to the barbarians around us.

We feel that nonviolence is the best policy, and we will fight to the end for peace. <3

[Darkstone]

All is quiet in the lands of Van... too quiet.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Skirmisher]

The citizens of Arcoscephale are vigilant, they know there can be only one true pretender.

For now philosophy,art,and happy times are the order of the day.

[Darkstone]

Van Gazetteer
Year 1AW, Summer:
All of Vanheim is abuzz with gossip and activity.

Vanheim scouts have discovered several nations neighboring near our ancestral lands. Emissaries must be dispatched, will these alien cultures be full of friends... or foes? Will merchants be able to trade items, gold, and gems for mutual benefit? Or will warriors need to sharpen their swords, and polish their armor in preparation for some future conflict?

[Wrana]

The Celestial Masters can answer your simple questions, of course.
Where there is Ying, there is Yang also. So, where you would be able to find friends, you will also find foes. And while you would be able to trade, including with traders of our own benevolent ruler, you will also need to fight. Much. So not be too exact in polishing your armor - it would get dented quite soon in any case! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Skirmisher]

I noticed that 2 pretender gods have been killed.

What are the ramifications of that?

[Fakeymcfake]

Well, unless they were immortal pretenders they'll first have to be summoned back by priests, which will take a long time at this stage of the game. They'll also have reduced magic capabilities, which again at this stage of the game will take an effort to reclaim. And even if they were immortal there is a good chance they have some sort of wound or other infliction that will reduce their effectiveness, which will be annoying to heal unless they have either commanders that can heal other troops or their pretender is able to heal on his own.

So, essentially, those nations are down a formidable warrior for the time being as well as missing out on whatever magic capabilities they had and dominion expansion. Or this pretender was immortal in which case his death should be a regular occurrence unless he picked a fight outside of his dominion.

[Wrana]

IIRC immortals heal affliction of their own. At least they did in Dom2. But I don't think these two are immortal.
And they both had a strong Dominion which means that their neighbors will take less push than they would otherwise.

[Skirmisher]

Concerning the Worthy Hero's,

Where are they? lol

[Wrana]

Well, it depends on YOUR Luck scale. And I don't mean only Pretender's... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Darkstone]

Not sure how novice or not the players here are, but here's an explanation in case;

The Worthy Heroes mod simply adds some better heroes to the selection , so you have greater variety in possible heroes, and it also buffs the existing heroes, usually adding an ability or item slot.

As for getting them, that hasn't changed. In case you haven't read that part of the manual, it's (X + 3)% chance per turn of getting a hero, where X is your luck scale. So luck 3 means 6% chance, and misfortune 3 means no heroes ever.

[Skirmisher]

Darkstone said:
Not sure how novice or not the players here are, but here's an explanation in case;




Do you suspect experienced players posing as noobie's? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Skirmisher]

Darkstone said:


The Worthy Heroes mod simply adds some better heroes to the selection , so you have greater variety in possible heroes, and it also buffs the existing heroes, usually adding an ability or item slot.

As for getting them, that hasn't changed. In case you haven't read that part of the manual, it's (X + 3)% chance per turn of getting a hero, where X is your luck scale. So luck 3 means 6% chance, and misfortune 3 means no heroes ever.




Well that explains it thank you.
My Luck 1 isn't cutting it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[JimMorrison]

Skirmisher said:

Darkstone said:
Not sure how novice or not the players here are, but here's an explanation in case;




Do you suspect experienced players posing as noobie's? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



I think it's more that even though we're all pretty new to MP, depending on how much SP experience one has, or if they've been active on the forums, they might know more or less about these things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, I've found that heroes aren't that central to the game (or at least the heroes I've come across for Pangaea with this mod) and while they might be a bit more powerful than the standard commanders unless your faction already had SC worthy heroes you won't get any SC heroes either.

So if you get them, great, they're a bit more useful than the average commanders but they aren't really that noteworthy at least in my experience.

[JimMorrison]

Well, some of them give you access to another magic path or something, which is very nice. But since you can't count on getting ANY heroes, let alone gamble which you get if you do, then it's just a perk, and not a strategic choice so much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Wrana]

Completely agree about heroes.
On a brighter note: just got the province with 2 identical triton-producing sites! Speaking about luck... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
And another one - it was proved that Tien Chi PD (25) can stop Knights' attack dead. Well, actually two of those had managed to get away, but the principle looks sound... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Nice luck there. Best troop producing site I've ever found was a naga site, usually I only find some run-of-the-mill undead sites (longdeads, ghouls, shades) and that's it.

[JimMorrison]

Oh I love the one "A Death mage may enter to summon a Shade." Sweeeet..... And a year of doing that and I'll have..... crap! Yay.

And can't T'ien Chi PD kill just about anything? Someone needs to spank them soon, they're doing far too well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Agreed, stupid T'ien Ch'i PD can kick the crap outta all sorts of critters, "someone" should really do "something" about it soon...

[Wrana]

Considering "A Death mage may enter..." it was particularly funny when I found such a site as Helheim! Recruit Necromancer & summon Soulless... bah!
As for somebody doing something... you say you've got a particularly good site? Then you are welcome to try! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Or did you mean developers? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Caelum, on the other hand, looks scary... Maybe I'll send some good gifts to one of my allies to trash you throughly? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
On more serious note - while Tien Chi PD are certainly good, I don't think they could kill anything. There are Bogus & Co, after all... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Plus Vampire attack, plus, plus... The world is full of dangers for our peaceful Empire! Luckily, there are much more for Bandar Log... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Well I've never seen any PD successfully deal with Bogus & Co unless it was extremely well funded, somewhere higher than 40 at least. Vampire attacks I've actually fended off with a simple 20 PD in some cases. The worst, in my opinion, are the troglodyte hordes that pop up from under the earth mainly because they're just so much more common in my experience and can wreck bloody havoc unless your core troops are over the same size as them.

[Wrana]

I've seen Troglodites deflected by Vans iirc. But they were quite numerous Vans - about 25+ PD... I am not sure whether they are more common than Vampires - maybe it also depends on scales.

[Wrana]

By the way, who is fubaring Arcoscephales? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Skirmisher]

That would be Ashdod. Doing a fine job of it so far, hope they don't stop so I can check out of this soon. lol

[Fakeymcfake]

Why the rush Skirmisher?

[Skirmisher]

Fakeymcfake said:
Why the rush Skirmisher?



Well there's no rush really, I'll continue to honor my turn commitment in this game regardless of how long it takes.

Try to look at it from my point of view. First MP game ever. Poor Pretender design decisions on my part. An army that can't win a battle against Ashdod to save thier lives.
A dead pretender. Shrinking empire. Did I miss anything?

Logic tells me I'm toast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, fair enough. Strangely, I've always sort of enjoyed fighting losing battles in a way, gives me an excuse to try goofy things that I might not have tried otherwise for risk of ruining a winning trend.

On another note, did Napty drop out or something? I just noticed that Bandar Log isn't showing up on the 'turns received' list and I can't send messages to them in game.

[Darkstone]

Bah.

It appears you're right, and Bandar Log has turned AI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Natpy, may we ask why you turned AI? If you were unable to make the commitment to stay in the game, the least you could have done was say so, so we could try to find a sub as it's still early enough in the game to get them.

[JimMorrison]

I messaged him - he said that with his pretender dead, and he wasn't satisfied with the cuild he submitted for this game, he decided it was hopeless, and just went AI. 8 \

[Wrana]

A pity about Bandar Log. Maybe he discovered virtues of its PD and was completely brokenhearted? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Actually, it's a pity about Arcoscephales too. Especially as Ashdod doesn't need a bonuses he'll gain after crushing Arcos - they are strong enough as they are... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, such is the nature of war-games. Always a pity when people drop out but at the same time you wanna win, indeed a paradox.

[Darkstone]

I'm sure a more experienced player wouldn't have minded subbing that spot.

Anyway, nobody wants to beat just an AI. At least, I don't.

[ano]

I doubt it's easy to find a more experienced player than Natpy is, really. Possible but still not easy.
Someone plays for fun, someone plays for victory. If you are from second category then it makes absolutely no sense to play when you have no chances to win. It is my point of view, not his.

[JimMorrison]

Well, it is "sort of" bad etiquette to just drop the game with no warning though.

The problem is, in Dom, adding in an AI dramatically changes the way the game is played. It's generally considered to be a large advantage to the neighbors, since the AI isn't as clever at waging war, so can be easily annexed. On the other hand, it's also a serious problem for anyone with much of a border who was NAPed to that nation, as the AI may start rampaging at any given moment, they love raiding. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

But at the same time, if you offer the nation for a sub, often someone will join just for the challenge of the unfavorable position. As you just pointed out Fakey, it gives a great chance to try out something wacky and risky, for the fun of it.


So in summation, don't just randomly drop out, it's not nice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[JimMorrison]

ano said:
I doubt it's easy to find a more experienced player than Natpy is, really. Possible but still not easy.
Someone plays for fun, someone plays for victory. If you are from second category then it makes absolutely no sense to play when you have no chances to win. It is my point of view, not his.



But again, like I was saying, it's not fair to the other people in the game. At least some effort should be made to avoid the AI, which most people seem to agree shouldn't be done except in very extreme cases (game won't continue, or nation will just stale forever), or if the nation is all but completely destroyed with absolutely no options whatever.

Bandar Log is still big in this game, there were options. Maybe not "high victory probability" options, but again, if someone is likely to go AI the minute they don't think they are in a good position to win the game, some hosts may stop letting them sign up for games. At least, I wouldn't allow a player who made a habit of just going AI at the first sign of trouble.

[Fakeymcfake]

Yeah, that's what I thought was odd about Napty dropping out at this stage in the game. It's still really damned early and he honestly wasn't doing that bad. Heck, I'd stay on for the sake of experience, even if I knew I didn't have a chance in hell of winning I'd try to be the biggest headache (in game) to everyone else as I possibly could be until they finally eliminated me.

But whatever, at the moment I'm just annoyed I didn't have any provinces bordering his, all that free(ish) land and a capital if you are quick about it. For those of you who are sitting next to these newly vacated (sorta) lands, let the race begin.

[Cerlin]

Sorry about the Arco...My main army and his god army collided in an indie province and I killed his SC pretender by accident. So I took advantage of the situation....

[Skirmisher]

Cerlin said:
Sorry about the Arco...My main army and his god army collided in an indie province and I killed his SC pretender by accident. So I took advantage of the situation....



No worries ,it's war. There's always going to be winners and losers.
And it was no accident that you killed my Pretender.
I moved the Wyrm there specifically to kill you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Just didn't turn out as scripted.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Darkstone]

ano said:
I doubt it's easy to find a more experienced player than Natpy is, really. Possible but still not easy.
Someone plays for fun, someone plays for victory. If you are from second category then it makes absolutely no sense to play when you have no chances to win. It is my point of view, not his.



Since this is a newbie game, shouldn't pretty much almost everyone be more experienced?

I don't know the chances of getting a sub or not, but we could have given it a shot.

Also losing a pretender shouldn't translate into a no chance to win.

In fact, based on the situation around him, he was in a pretty decent spot, especially now that he could take advantage of Arco's lack of defense and expansion.

All this is besides the point, if he couldn't/didn't want to play, that's not that big a deal, just the going AI without saying a word is unfortunate for the game, even if it does unfairly benefit me.

--

Was the wyrm outside your dominion or something?

[Skirmisher]

Darkstone said:


--

Was the wyrm outside your dominion or something?




No I believe I had 4-5 candle strength in that particular province when it was killed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But the only way to get it back is the call god option right? The text mentioned that takes alot of mages along time to acomplish. I'm not sure I have that much time.

[Darkstone]

I believe it's 40 levels of priests. So ten lvl 2 priests calling god for 2 turns would do it.

I realize that with Ashdod breathing down your neck that may not be enough...

[JimMorrison]

It's 50. Not a huge deal later in the game, for most nations. Early on, it's a lot of waiting around. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Wrana]

"To kill an SC by accident" is certainly something new in this game's language! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cerlin]

Yeah I know Wrana! it is outrageous but I think Gath early game troops arent so shabby and Ive got a couple good random lords which really help too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

By the way if anyone is willing to help me equalize the war verses Pangea and Vanhiem who just attacked me, I would gladly accept the allies!

[Wrana]

Well, I at least certainly have Non-Agression Pacts with them both. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
Another reason that the Council of Celestial Master didn't sympathize with your situation and so didn't recommend our glorious Emperor to intervene is that your conquest of civilized nation of Arcoscephales made you both recognized as rude and uncouth barbarians and too strong for liking of any clear-minded people! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif Of course, situation may change later, but then another gathering of the Council would be in order. Also, our glorious Emperor declares any bans on trading with other nations to be removed, so our traders are now ready to make deals with anyone! This opportunity may be just what you need! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

After long deliberations with my shamans (as well as a select number of particularly insightful spruce trees), the woodland nation of Pangaea will gladly take you up on your offer of trade. At the moment we have an abundance of nature gems as well as a smattering of air, fire and astral. Also, if need be we are generating a healthy gold income that could be diverted to sweeten a deal. We would be open for trade in the form of other gems or items.

As for the war with Ashdod, well, it was less a response to their attack on Arcoscephale and more a meeting of opinions between the nations of Vanhiem and Pangaea. That opinion being "this will totally work".

[Darkstone]

Cerlin said:
By the way if anyone is willing to help me equalize the war verses Pangea and Vanhiem who just attacked me, I would gladly accept the allies!



Hmph.

You have some gall to now ask for help from others when you completely ignored my attempt at dialogue and diplomacy many turns ago.

Perhaps now you can consider how ignoring diplomacy completely is both foolhardy and invites disaster.

Good luck anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[JimMorrison]

Just a side note, the nations of the world may want to pay particular attention to Venheim.

Their idea of diplomacy doesn't consider the claiming of 2 provinces to be an act of war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Were it not for the need to save the noble Bandar Log from the current civil war that is fracturing their civilization, I'd be helping you right now Cerlin.

If the rest of you aren't particularly busy, you might want to look at Vanheim more closely, before you're on the other end of another 2v1. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Wrana]

Well, claiming them indeed isn't an act of war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Attacking your troops to get these, though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
As for saving Bandar Log - well, let's just say that our Consorts are currently busy taking notes of your conduct to save for future use. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Maybe they'll also give some choice pieces to officials of other nations... unless you'll find something valuable to offer them for their silence... these girls love jewelry so much! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Cerlin]

Of course I received your messages. Just because we have not responded immediately does not mean we were planning on attacking you next. I tend to not try to needlessly make NAP with all my neighbors to keep it interesting. If I can win now then It will have been worth it. Even if I can wear you both down enough so someone else can take you is enough for me. May the best one win (or two...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[JimMorrison]

I don't think I understand, Wrana? What are you going to tell them that they didn't see right here? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

You seized two territories from me.

You offer to NAP after this silent assault, trying to sweeten the deal with a couple low garbage magic items that will not serve my people in the same way that 2 provinces worth of income would - enjoy your nice lovely Inkpot End, BTW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Then, I tell you to shove it, because my people are far too proud to just roll over and take it from behind, just because your indie expansion army can clear some small amount of Caelum PD. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

So? The only thing I did that some people might be bothered by, is letting them know that you appear to me to be dangerous. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But, they already know that, so what other conduct? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

You'll see some conduct soon, don't worry, I am saving something special for you. You're lucky you doubleteamed Arcos, means I may have to break a sweat to take your capital. That's good, makes the triumph that much sweeter.

[Fakeymcfake]

Cerlin said:
I tend to not try to needlessly make NAP with all my neighbors to keep it interesting.



Hah, certainly is more interesting now I'll give you that. In any event, I hope that our battles will serve to make a worthy epitaph for your pretender god.

[JimMorrison]

Well that last post was confused, sleepy head decided to think that Wrana was the representative of Vanheim. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


For the rest of the world, it is true that noble Caelum was dealt a terrible blow when by chance, our revered deity Tengri ventured into the dark swamps and contracted a terrible disease. But her loss is our rallying point, and our nation is not weakened, but rather encouraged and emboldened. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Skirmisher]

Well the crumbling of the Arco economy is almost complete.

I must say ,Ashdod has impressive troops. They've been beating me easily in most cases.
This game has been horrible. I have not found one magic site, not that it would be mine anymore heh. Was someone else aligned with Ashdod to orchestrate our downfall?

Not one hero made an appearance, worthy or otherwise. Our home temple was destroyed by an earthquake. Emeny dominion of unknown origin swayed some of my followers to follow a false god.

[Fakeymcfake]

Wow that is some [censored] luck right there. And yeah, Ashdod troops are pretty impressive, I'm interested to see how my satyrs will measure up.

Oh and if anyone is interested, I'm in the market for death gems. In return, gold, nature gems and air gems.

[Wrana]

To Skirmisher:
Have you choosen Misfortune 3? Looks like it - it removes the chance for heroes (which remains 2% for Misfortune 2) and generates events such as you describe...

And Celestial Masters agree to forgive the mistake of avian barbarians and not to hold it against them. They understand that such mishaps are part of an unfortunate fate of uncivilized nation... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Yeah, I never dip into misfortune if I can help it. I've lost way too many SP games when knights come charging out of nowhere, or monsters spring from the earth, or vampires suck everyone's blood, or whatever terrible thing to kill everyone occurs right at my capital and cripples me in the opening turns.

[Darkstone]

Birds just don't hold their drink very well. ;p

--

Yeah, misfortune is perfectly fine if your other scales are great, but in general it's best to keep it to a minimum.

Also, misfortune 2 has only a 1% chance of heroes.

[Wrana]

Agree. Particularly Misfortune should always be paired with Order which somewhat alleviates its effects, but even in such case I think Order should always be higher. And it's better to take any other bad scale at 1 than Misfortune 3 as this unlocks some particularly bad events.

[Skirmisher]

Wrana said:
To Skirmisher:
Have you choosen Misfortune 3? Looks like it - it removes the chance for heroes (which remains 2% for Misfortune 2) and generates events such as you describe...




No I had Luck 1 ,the misfortune is coming from another dominion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Wrana]

Well, and you have even not so low Dominion score (6?)... Either that's your natural Luck score to which I can only offer my condolescenses, or you got Dominion-pushed by not building temples in your border provinces... Or they were only there and got carried by Ashdod's rush...
My condolescenses in any case. I like Arcoscephales nation, though I didn't try them in MP yet.

[Skirmisher]

I was also having gold issues the whole game, so there was never really extra gold to build those temples. As soon as I had expanded to 8-9 provinces the de-expansion was started.

[Wrana]

WHAT WAS YOUR DOMINION THEN??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif (And where were your elephantes?)

[Skirmisher]

Dominion was set to 6 or 7.

I realised to late that elephants were my primary field troops. The ones I did make didn't hold up Ashdod for long though.

[Wrana]

Pity. (By Dominion I meant scales as well, by the way)

[Skirmisher]

Scales= Luck 1 , thats it.

[Fakeymcfake]

Would elephants even be that effective against Ashdod? Considering that the size difference is far less than it would be otherwise that might have an effect on trample, but then I could be wrong. Even if trample still worked just as well, the HP and protection on Ashdod's mainline troops (or at least the ones that Cerlin is using) is just too high for elephants to be effective against them in my opinion.

Personally I would have gone heavy magic research working towards level 4 thaumatugry to get paralyze and then churn out astrologers by the cartload. Also, Acro's high resource unit costs pretty much scream productivity scales. But hindsight is 20/20 so who knows.

[JimMorrison]

Oh ouch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

Dom 6, Luck 1, and..... the most incredible bless that no one ever gave to Arcos? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I think if you were trying to use blessed Heart Brothers or whatever as the spearhead of your strategy, you might have been barking up the wrong tree there. Pretty sure Arcos prospers the best with a high scales strat, and can potentially do well with an awake SC (if you can do it cheaply enough) or a rainbow pretender.

[Skirmisher]

I really don't know. After all this is my first game multiplayer ever. I didn't even win one battle, lol.
Have pity on my poor strategically challanged self.

[Darkstone]

So you used an awake wyrm with no awe? That's not really SC material.

Gotta agree with Jim on this one. Arco is very scales friendly. You have decent troops, and elephants that are effective in a variety of situations, but the most important thing Arco has going for it is the mages. With good variety in paths, and a strong communion you can do all sorts of scary and crazy things on and off the battlefield.

I'd suggest an Order and Magic scales to maximize on your mages, and to use them sooner.

As for this game, well.. don't beat yourself up about it, there's always another game. I also suggest you read up the strategy index. Even nations which you don't use (or just don't care for) have suggestions which transcend into other nations, or just general gameplay.

[Skirmisher]

Darkstone said:
So you used an awake wyrm with no awe? That's not really SC material.




Nope it had lev 3 water /level 3 astral and Ashdod cut it up into little bits rather quickly.

I definetly need to get a better grasp on the whole magic thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Darkstone]

Well, using him with some spells wouldn't have been a bad idea, but he would have been better off sleeping in that case, to get the necessary research in first (alt 3 and ench 3) for the ethereal, astral shield, luck, quicken self, and resist magic spells.

A wyrm with no awe and no researched spells can occasionally die to some of the tougher indies.

Also, S3 puts him at risk of magic duel, so you'd need to be rather selective with where you sent you him.

[Wrana]

Have to agree to this. Wyrm can be incredible SC with no magic at all, but with high Dominion. This also leaves enough points for decent or even good scales). If you want magic, maybe you should sooner look for some of Titans, especially as Arcos have really good access to them. Another thing is that as you can see, Arcos have free scrying in own Dominion so it's worth it to raise this as high as possible - also speaks for Wyrm with no magic...
In the current game I think you should probably just forget about it unless your priestesses have nothing else to do and concentrate on mages. Elephantes could allow quick expansion against indies and can work well in coordination with mages/other troops against other nations. One trick which is highly recommended is to place a low-level Astral mage in the group of 2-4 Elephantes, then script Body Ethereal 3 times, while Elephantes "hold & attack". This gives you ethereal Elephantes, which aren't so easily swarmed, and your infantry moving behind them can mop up troops they displace. This doesn't make Elephantes braver or more resistant to magic, though... Maybe something else can be cooked up...

[anticipatient]

The best way to learn how SCs work is to duel quantum_mechanic and ask him to show you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Skirmisher]

Wrana said:
In the current game I think you should probably just forget about it unless your priestesses have nothing else to do and concentrate on mages.




I've already forgotten about it, I currently have 2 provinces. Probably only one after this current turn.
And no way to build anything at all.
Yes it is over. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Wrana]

By the way, where your fortress went? My spies can't everywhere, after all... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Hmm, everyone's been quiet lately. Either this game is getting really intense or nothing overly exciting has been happening.

Oh and I'm still in the market for gems and items if someone is interested in a trade.

[JimMorrison]

It's pretty intense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I just think there is much private plotting and scheming going on. This game may have a quicker end than most I've seen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Darkstone]

Van Gazetteer
Year 3AW, Late Spring:
A victory for Vanheim!

The evil necromancers who raise the horrendous dead to fight have been slain by the valiant Vans and their mercenary captains in the long and drawn out siege of the Ashdod Tel City. They withstood for many months, but in the end fell like the infidel scum they are. Casualties were few, thanks to an Ashdod slave, who opened one of the gates in the night! Their bloody temple was razed to the ground, and no more screams will echo from it.

Some cowardly Rephaite mages managed to sneak out during the final battle, but they will find no solace or safety! We will hunt them down wherever they hide!

We embrace our new citizens, and no longer will they feel the bite of whip and chain!

We mourn and honor our fallen. Construct the funeral ships!

[Skirmisher]

Well each turn some more of my limited and finite troops walk, beacause I can't afford to pay them. Now it's getting ugly.
We watch from a distance as our former home is invaded
for a second time, at least this time we dont have to fight.
A reclusive mage managed to find our first magic site of the game!!!
To bad we cant do anything with the gems ,lol.

Viva Arcoscephale, we are still here!!


I also wanted to mention that this automated game server is outstanding!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

I just wanted to bid farewell to Cerlin as it appears that he's gone AI on us. He put up a good fight and I enjoyed the short time we had together throwing our respective troops at each other in a bid for godhood. Cheers.

Oh and way to make me feel bad about invading you Skirmisher, how was I supposed to know that your first and only magic site was in the way of my army. Gosh.

[Wrana]

Congratulations to our Van allies!
Farewell, Ashdod! You will be missed, Cerlin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
And big hurray to Arcoscephales for persistance!
As for quite - an old Tien Chi wisdom says that it's a sure sign of upcoming storm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif I won't be surprised at all if some new war starts soon. Fortunately, our glorious Empire is almost ready for it.

[Wrana]

According to requests of our allies and due to the unpleasant fact that our Abyssia neighbors became insufferable with the very essence of being they worship harming our land and even their own population, the Council of Celestial Masters saw fit to petition our august Emperor to rewoke an agreement we had previously forged with these barbarians. The Son of the Sky graciously agreed to the petion.
So according to the Will of Heavens, our glorious Empire hereby declares that the Pact existing between our Empire and Abyssia barbarians now ends! We, however, graciously offer said barbarians a time to prepare for an attack which was agreed beforehand. Let the land be cleansed from the foul presence of Abyssia false god!

[Fakeymcfake]

Ah so the drums of war continue to sound. Oh and on that note, I have to give Skirmisher credit for not going quietly into the night, however irritating his death throes might be to me.

[Skirmisher]

Thank you for the credit. I saw a weakness in your lines, assembled my forces,and attacked. Not a moment to soon it seems as your army is hot on my trail.

It was nice to get a battle victory, before my inevatable collapse. Sorry about that temple, my troops just couldn't help themselves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, no biggy. They're cheap as hell for me, and anyhow it looks like you're just about out of room to run.

[Darkstone]

Yeah, you stayed around a lot longer than Bandar (and in a much worse situation). That's character.

I'd enjoy playing with you anytime Skirmisher. Good luck in your next game.

[don_Pablo]

Wrana said:
our Abyssia neighbors became insufferable with the very essence of being they worship harming our land


Our temples are placed 3-5 provinces far from a border with you. Your Lung Yu should be absolutly worthless for your peolpe start worship Zwago the true God.

But it's obviously we are speaking of a far-fetched casus belli.
The real is

Wrana said:
According to requests of our allies

[Wrana]

The real is to get you to post SOMETHING in this thread! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Plus the fact that the longer you remain, the worse shape the provinces taken from you will be in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
And about who is worthless you will have full opportunity to see! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
***
And one for sportsmanship to both Skirmisher and Fakeymcfake! Keep at it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Darkstone]

By the way, I have earth gems for sale. I'm interested in any other gems. PM me if interested.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well I'm sorry to announce the end of the Acroscephale nation after a brief but spirited engagement. The few brave Acroscephale warriors that remained by their haggard commanders fought valiantly but were ultimate defeated by my legions of satyrs and centaurs. They went out fighting an example I hope to follow if I ever get to that point.

[Wrana]

As Abyssia barbarians choose to not use the period of grace granted to them, but rather to try a preliminary attack themselves, our august Emperor thereby announces that the war against them now commences!

[JimMorrison]

News from the Steaming Lands that lay between Caelum and Abysia spreads quickly. In the grand fight between the Seraphs and the Demonbred, the Seraphs were the decided victor. Hordes of Abysia's finest were cut down in the driving rain in front of Caelum's castle, before a much smaller force of Iceclads. A hushed rumor circulates that the Seraphines who were trapped in the castle, neglected to show up for the battle, leaving 2 full battalions of Iceclad out of the decisive engagement.

Tungitri the High Seraph, and acting general of the Caelian southern army was furious. He blames the irresponsible Seraphines for letting the Abysian false-god limp off the field in a bloody mess. "10 more good men and that Cyclops would be in a glass case on Mount Caelum by now, but we should have had 100!"

After the tragic loss of Tengri to a rare jungle malady, many wondered if Caelum could ever rise to become a world power. It is quite true, the resilient descendants of the Yazata are clever and tenacious, and for that, this reporter salutes them.


<3

[don_Pablo]

That was a very beautiful battle imho.
Respect!

[Wrana]

Hearing of this, the august Emperor of Tien Chi sends his congratulations!
It is also heard that a spirited engagement in the south between the holding forces of Abyssia who proudly marched out from the shelter of the strong-walled castle they built on the Tien Chi border for just that purpose and valiant vanguard of Tien Chi gloriuos army resulted in a decisive, if costly, victory for the Tien Chi army.
While some of Tien Chi infantry allowed themselves to be drawn out by Humanbred militia instead of meeting main body of Abyssians squarely, which allowed the later to reach some of the less important Tien Chi mages and slay them despite the valiant defence provided by bodyguard detachments, the withering hail of Tien Chi crossbow bolts, together with the magic laid down by the Celestial master and sharp counter-attacks by Imperial heavy infantry, proved in the end to be too much for undisciplined barbarians, who turned tail and ran. Some of their forces still continue to hold their castle, but with their numbers depleted, it isn't expected they could hold it for long when Tien Chi reinforcements arrive.

[Wrana]

I am going to leave for a field work which would probably take about two weeks, beginning from Tuesday. For now I found no sub and I have heard that Fakeymcfake also searched for one. What do you think? May be it's time for pause? Or can you find someone for the game to continue?
I would prefer to not go AI, but if no other variants show...

[Darkstone]

I've just asked two players I know... hopefully one of them can do it. Have you posted a notice on the MP board?

[Fakeymcfake]

We've both posted and I don't know about Wrana but mine has been up for a few days now and I've not heard anything back. I'll only be gone for a week so it wouldn't be much more than a babysitting gig for whomever takes over for that time. I won't be leaving until Thursday so I'll need someone to step in before then, preferably at least a day in advance, so that everything can be worked out smoothly. Also, if you guys are willing to go on a break until Wrana gets back I wouldn't be opposed. As for myself I'll be gone from the 31st to the 6th or 7th.

[llamabeast]

Am I still admin for this game? Sorry if I am. Would any of you volunteer to take over for me?

[Wrana]

Currently I still have no reply. If there is no one by about 21-00 GMT, I formally ask to pause game or turn me AI if others prefer so. I shall be gone for about two weeks, as I said.

[Fakeymcfake]

I'd volunteer but I'll be gone soon and by the looks of it I'll have to go AI unless everyone agrees to a pause.

[Psycho]

I can sub for one of you if the game is on 48h. I'd like some details on what you want done if I take the sub. I've played pangaea once, but not tien chi.

[Darkstone]

I have located a sub for T'ien Ch'i.

I'll admin the game llamabeast.

[Fakeymcfake]

Psycho, at the moment we are on a 24h rotation, but even then we occasionally get 2 turns done in a day (I guess we are a fairly active bunch). If the others are willing perhaps we can switch to 48h temporarily, but it would be up to them not me. In any case I hope that it's decided soon because I'm going to be out of town in a couple days and then it'll be a moot point.

[Psycho]

OK, I just wanted to help out. I won't be able to keep up with such quick schedule, but if you want I can take over even if it stays on 24h. I don't promise getting every turn in if that is the case.

[Fakeymcfake]

Thanks Psycho, I'll let you know by Wednesday whats going on and fill you in on what I need you to do. As I said, it's mainly a babysitting gig so it shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes out of your day.

[Wrana]

Sorry, I have not much time right now. And whoever wishing to sub for me still hadn't written me himself. So I officially ask to place the game on pause until about 13.08. If other remaining players are against it, please turn Tien Chi AI. A pity, really, a position is not bad, but I have to go soon.
Maybe I can reply if sub-tobe writes me inside 2-3 hours, but I'm not sure at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif (of course, if sub shows up, it would be better to change to 48-hr shedule, as it would probably allow me to be present at game end)

[Saxon]

All,

I have just written to Wrana and am happy to take over the nation for a couple of weeks. I have only one MP game to my name, but a fair bit of SP experience.

[Wrana]

Excellent!
Good bye and good game to all!
I'll be back... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Saxon]

All,

Wrana got back to me and gave me the low down. I now need to get the turn file and wrote to the admin, Darkstone, to get that sorted out. I will uphold existing agreements as appropriate.

Wrana says you are all really nice, except for those of you who are foolishly resisting the truth that the god of Tien Chi is the master of the universe. As such, Wrana has empowered me to bring truth to you, as appropriate to each of your nations. I have also been empowered to accept your surrenders as you come to see that truth.

Feel free to PM your surrenders or, if you prefer, offers of trade and diplomacy.

[Saxon]

Howdy,

It is two hours before the next hosting and I still don’t have the game file. It would be good if you could delay the turn a day. Unless I get the turn right away, I have to go to sleep and won’t be able to do anything till tomorrow.

Sorry, I will be able to keep up once I get my hands on the turn files.

[Darkstone]

I'm not yet the admin, so I apologize for being unable to do that. I should have PMed llama earlier.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well, Psycho will kindly be stepping in for me for the next week or so. So I'll bid you fine people adieu for now and turn over the show to Psycho.

[Darkstone]

Saxon: I've changed it to your addy. You should receive the latest turn.

Fakey: Enjoy your trip (or whatever it is you're doing?).

Psycho: It seems we'll be encountering each other in yet another game. Heh. I hope my fortunes will be not so horrible. PM me with your email so I can set it up when ready.

We'll be waiting for Saxon and Psycho to both do their turns, and I'll move back the hosting time if necessary so there will be no stales.

[Fakeymcfake]

For clarification sake, I'll be visiting my aunt's place in Quebec over the long weekend where I'll spend my time being piss drunk while throwing bocce balls on a lovely private beach with about 50 friends and relatives.

[Darkstone]

Sounds like fun. Never played bocce with a drink handicap, but I imagine that just makes it better, heh.

[JimMorrison]

Well played defense, Don Pablo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

I had a nagging feeling that I was being too aggressive in my placement. And if I only I had listened to that feeling. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Saxon]

Howdy,

I am travelling Monday and Tuesday. I should be able to get the Monday turn in on Sunday night or Monday morning. However, may I request the Tuesday turn be set to around 21:00 GMT? I will be back in time to pick up the turn and send it.

Thanks!

[Psycho]

I am taking over Pangaea starting from this turn. I've been informed that I have NAPs with Tien Chi and Vanheim and no relations with Caelum. I will be here for just a week, so I will not be making any diplomatic changes, except if Caelum wants a NAP that can be negotiated (PM me about it if interested).

to Caelum: I suppose you are the one who defeated Bandar Log, but I will send a small army to take their last province. Their misfortune scales are hurting me, so I want their dominion dead. You can take the province later if you want.

[JimMorrison]

I want their dominion dead too.

< shrug >

Knowing you all have a NAP makes me just want to go AI though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I'm finding that I'm not overly fond of 8 player games, not a very complex dynamic.....

[Darkstone]

8 player games may not be as complex, but they involve less provinces, smaller armies, and more mid-game action. Most importantly there's less micro and the turns go by much quicker, which is a major plus if you survive till endgame.

[JimMorrison]

"Not as complex" seems to oversimplify the oversimplification.

One player goes AI, a couple others get rushed out, and then what? Giant NAP party that systematically eliminates 1 player at a time. The only overarching strategy involved is largely luck based - do you start close to the right people and ally them in the beginning? At least in a larger game, there are usually at least 2 competing alliances. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I was going to babble on about the situation, but it sounded too pathetic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Suffice to say, I had hatched a pretty plan to ally with Pan and crush Vanheim from both sides - but with that out of the question, it seems the only variable left in my game, is how long I can manage to last against a much stronger Vanheim. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif If I didn't have such a well developed sense of honor, I would go AI and save myself the trouble. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Darkstone]

If I was so strong, why haven't I attacked yet?

I wouldn't count you out just yet Jim... considering my position in the center is strategically weak, and NAP's tend to evaporate at the worst possible moments. Where as you have the mobility to attack from wherever you choose... I'm limited in that any force I send in any particular route, is committed.

Lastly, even if you didn't have a sense of humor, I'm not sure you'd get upset if you'd lose any particular game... since you're such an active player (a truly jaw-dropping amount of games).

[JimMorrison]

Well you're correct, I found it not entirely funny that you stripped 3 territories off of me when I was at my most vulnerable, and specifically told me, in the middle of that process, that it wasn't an act of war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And you are also correct, that at this point I may partly sound fatalistic because I am dreaming of a different start for my lovely Caelum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I won't suicide the nation or go AI, but I'm not looking at the game as an economy that lasts to the end - more rather planning each move based on what does the most damage in the short term. Ironically, since I feel that if I don't behave that way, I won't have a long term, it also coincides with doing what is best FOR the long term, which I won't have if I don't fight like a cornered dog. With wings. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I still don't find it particularly funny to lose my only non-mountain provinces the way that I did. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif But I don't hold it against you, it's those bloody Vans, they're bastards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


You're actually quite lucky right now Darkstone, I'm reasonably certain that if our other players weren't represented by subs atm, the aforementioned NAPs would in fact be dissolving as we speak. I do what I can. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Oh also, not sure if I was misunderstood. It's less that I am bitter about my own position in this game, just that I really prefer larger maps with more players, and I'm bitter that I placed myself into a small one, and then chucked my pretender into Inkpot End in the first year. <3

[Darkstone]

Let's clear a few misconceptions up.

You shouldn't have grabbed territory so far from your capital and so close to mine, if you had no ability or desire to defend it. As for it being or not being an act of war, I said I was willing to consider not being at war, as much as being at war.

I attempted and began negotiations, and you decided to end them. So instead of keeping that third province and getting a couple items for a NAP with me, or making some yet different arrangement, you chose war. I still believe you chose rashly, as you didn't get anything out of it except possibly some sense of satisfaction, but this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

--

Secondly, I'm not sure what you are fatalistic about, each of the 4 major nations left has a good shot at winning the game.

As for starts... well, since you play so many games, I'm sure you realized that luck has a lot to do with how your game turns out, even if you pick the same nation on the same map, against the same players, with the same game setting.

--

As for the NAPs, anything is possible.

--

Lastly, if you prefer bigger games, I guess you can make that happen easily in the future, but complaining about it now doesn't make a lot of sense. As for your pretender, that sucks. You didn't run off and cry like Bandar (who was next to both Arco and Caelum who lost their pretenders just like Bandar). People who expect their game to go perfectly shouldn't play Dominions.

Sticking to a commitment deserves respect, and I think the other players recognized that, in regards to Arco, you, etc.

At least, I did.

[JimMorrison]

Your offer amounted to 10 gems, for 2 provinces. I was not going to accept that, as it amounted to 10 gems for 2 provinces AND a NAP. I gained nothing from refusing, but I did not so cheaply sell my honor as you wished to have purchased it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Of course it's entirely possible anyone could win this game. However considering that it was related to me that TC and Vanheim were allies rather than NAPed neighbors, this tends to validate certain assumptions about the potential directions the game might take. In my eyes, this not only implies that TC has a poor shot at victory unless they negate their alliance - it also implies that Caelum is the next molestation victim. All this on turn 40, there are 2 superpowers, and 2 nations with rather gloomy outlooks (and 1 nation who is all but crushed already).

Perhaps you might think these are hasty conclusions to draw, however that would just be semantic differences. In my eyes an alliance is far more significant than a NAP, and it is a grave matter indeed if someone wishes to dissolve that alliance prior to the agreed time (typically when there are no other contenders), whereas a NAP is simply a gentleman's agreement to not rush off to war without a polite warning of imminent hostilities. I do not make a habit of breaking alliances, nor do I make a habit of asking people to break alliances. If the wording was a mistake on Wrana's part, that is unfortunate, as he is absent to clarify the point, and I hardly see it in your best interests to dispel the notion if I am wrong, as it leads directly to me trying to corrupt TC over to my cause - since you are clearly much more of a threat to their chance of victory than I am. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

As far as complaining about the small size of the game, I was merely grumbling and expressing myself, it's not really a focal point of anything - I just prefer short games to be short, and long games to be long - rather than this sort of scenario that we find ourselves in now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Anyway, sure, I shouldn't have taken those provinces at the start - it cost me a lot. But what you're overlooking, is how much you're going to end up paying for them. That is a cursed and wretched stretch of land in those swamps, and no good will come of claiming it, the future will show the truth in these words. How many huskarls are you hiding beneath that flock of crows? I wonder if they'll sound like popcorn. <3

[Psycho]

It's the diplomacy part that I enjoy the most. Darkstone, it's a shame that our other game is so simple in that regard.

[Darkstone]

I concur Psycho. Diplomacy is a lot of fun. I like to grab an ally in a game, discuss strategy, hear about what's going on elsewhere, battle results, etc. It makes a big difference from just playing SP against really smart opponents.

[JimMorrison]

Must be fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I got lucky and got stuck in a corner between -

Abysia = refused to even NAP, as he wanted to war me sooner than later, which he even hinted at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Bandar Log = No time to ally before he mysteriously went AI and disappeared.

Vanheim = Attacked me before even saying hello, plotting a very different course for our relations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


<3

[Darkstone]

Sorry Jim, we can't all be allies, then nothing would happen.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit:

By the way, nothing was stopping you from opening a dialogue yourself.

[JimMorrison]

I don't want everyone to be allies, that's silly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif I just want enough people in the game that it takes longer to get down to the last few. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif So that a single alliance doesn't determine who will be victorious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Nothing against you, if you win that's great. I'm pretty sure you didn't arrange this situation from the moment that signups started, you just had a good run. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Darkstone]

Don't act like I've won just yet. I suspect things will be more chaotic as soon as the other players come back. Besides, if I was a betting man, I'd probably place on Pangaea.

Likewise, if you win, that's also great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Good luck.

[Saxon]

Pangaea is the leader in so many ways, has secure flanks and is worried about nothing more than the dominion of an AI nation with one province. And they are content to sit and relax for the next six or seven turns, building up dominion and nature gems. Hmm, what is the story here...

[JimMorrison]

Well, truth be told, Bandar Log was a blight on the northern reaches. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It's a very blighty game though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

Well, just got back and it looks like I have a bit of reading to catch up on. Looks like there was some excitement whilst I was away.

Edit: Just finished reading and am currently under the impression that someone wants a war to break out to liven up this place. I might have to oblige soon enough.

[Psycho]

My intentions were very noble, actually. I wanted to bring the true faith to the people of the Northern reaches.

Welcome back Fakey. Nothing happened while you were away.

[Fakeymcfake]

Ok so the turn is due in about 4 hours and I've still not received it. Does anyone happen to know what's up with that?

[JimMorrison]

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=TucoTuco

Go to that URL, and go towards the bottom and click "Request Turn Resend". Hope you get it in time.

[Fakeymcfake]

I don't think Darkstone has changed it back to my email address yet, hopefully it'll get cleared up before the next turn is due.

[JimMorrison]

Oh crap, that will teach me not to remember one post to the next. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fakeymcfake]

I think Darkstone is out of the picture for some reason as he hasn't been turning in his .2h files as well as not responding to any of the PMs I've been sending him. Should we bug llama about putting someone else as admin so we can carry on?

Edit: I just PM'd llama about making me admin for the time being, we might also think about finding a sub to take over Van.

[Saxon]

Howdy,

Darkstone has been out for a very long time. I think a decision needs to be taken about the future of the game. Wrana should be back in a couple of days and I am just a sub, but all of these stales are a problem.

[Fakeymcfake]

I just got the admin pass from Llama so I'll put myself back in the game today. Furthermore, if everyone is alright with it, I suggest finding a permanent sub for Darkstone as it looks like he's not coming back.

[JimMorrison]

How many stales has Vanheim suffered? I was being nice and not attacking while he was gone - sort of lost track of how many turns have passed.

I'd agree, we may need a sub - though if it's been 5+ stales, their overall situation may have badly eroded at this point.

[Fakeymcfake]

Yeah, it's probably been at least 4 or 5 turns now which is why I want to move fast finding a sub. Even with a fairly long string a stales, Van is still in fairly strong position and given a couple turns could probably get back into the game with ease.

[Saxon]

I think we are up to at least a week of stales.

Who ever takes over is going to have a huge stash of gems and gold to play with, but will be behind in recruiting.

I am now aprofessional sub, but do not feel I am suitable. When Wrana takes TC over, I would be free, but I just know too much about TC to fairly take over Van. That said, if it doesn't bother the rest of you, it doesn't bother me. I just can not pretend that my knowledge would not infulence things.

[Psycho]

He's had 10-11 stales. You can see that in the admin options on the llamaserver. But I don't think he's in a bad position, since nobody attacked him for the whole time. He even became the leader in research and stashed quite a lot of cash for whoever will be taking over.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well how about this. If we can't find a sub by the time Wrana gets back we'll give Van to Saxon. In the meantime I'm going to start posting for a permanent sub.

[JimMorrison]

He's had 10-11 stales. You can see that in the admin options on the llamaserver. But I don't think he's in a bad position, since nobody attacked him for the whole time. He even became the leader in research and stashed quite a lot of cash for whoever will be taking over.


Well 10 stales is a lot, depending on recruiting options.

Also bear in mind 2 things about that: He was just about ready to attack me when he disappeared - his troops are still massed on my borders, freshly summoned Trolls and all. And also, all that research may not mean much, I mean if he was 2 turns away from the spell he wanted in a school, then was going to switch to another, then he might have level 9 in something functionally useless to him.


Anyway, I already know that Caelum has lost the game. We're just sitting tight, ready to absolutely ruin whoever comes to pluck the peach. :P

[Wrana]

Greetings to all!
I am back, as said. However I will have to move again at the end of next week (till the beginning of September).
So please change the Tien Chi command back to me, starting tomorrow (I won't be able to make quality turn today & I wait for information on what happened from Saxon...).
But I'll be thankful for any words from anybody else, too... ;) Expecially if these are in-character descriptions. It seems that with disappearance of Dark, they disappeared, too, which is a pity.

[Fakeymcfake]

You'll have to send me your email Wrana and I'll switch you back over.

[Wrana]

I don't know your e-mail. If you PM it to me?

[JimMorrison]

I don't know your e-mail. If you PM it to me?

:cold:

[Wrana]

Understand now. I considered that he could just use information llamaserver already has on it. I've sent it now, but will probably be only at next turn...

[Valerius]

Hi guys. I PMed Fakey asking for a 24 hour hosting delay so I have chance to look things over.

I'd appreciate it if everyone could send me a PM so I know the diplomatic situation. Thanks.

[Fakeymcfake]

Sorry, I didn't get the notification in time to delay the turn. As for 48 hour intervals I'd have no problem with that personally (I just started a new job so my time is suddenly at a premium) I just want to hear from Wrana and Jim first before I switch over.

[JimMorrison]

Honestly, I thought we were at 48h turns already. I usually submitted mine pretty fast though..... So I was surprised to get a 6 hour notice today and get rushed to get a turn in. :shock:

[Wrana]

Welcome, Valerius!
I am not against 48hr turns, though this week I would like to try and make as much turns as I can, for at the end of the next I would probably be absent again... :(

[Saxon]

Howdy,

Various things are coming up and I don't think I can sub for anyone for the next few weeks. Work is, well, there are reasons they have to pay me to do it...

[Wrana]

Pity. Thank you nevertheless!
On a brighter note, currently last strongholds of Abyssia power were crushed by forces of Tien Chi Empire. We will remember those fallen in battle with Abyssia death-worshippers and make their spirits proud with our further accomplishments.
Out of character, it is interesting why he pursued such a strategy as he did. Does anybody know him well enough to ask?

[Fakeymcfake]

I certainly don't but I'm interested to know what strategy he went for. Oh and I'm switching to 48 hour intervals since no one seems to mind. Oh and I'm starting a war with Vanheim in three turns.

[JimMorrison]

Pity. Thank you nevertheless!
On a brighter note, currently last strongholds of Abyssia power were crushed by forces of Tien Chi Empire. We will remember those fallen in battle with Abyssia death-worshippers and make their spirits proud with our further accomplishments.
Out of character, it is interesting why he pursued such a strategy as he did. Does anybody know him well enough to ask?


You mean the Disorder, Heat, and Death?

Well, it sure screwed me over, most of those provinces had 10-30 supplies for me - diseased my entire army, and my income from new provinces was almost nonexistent. So there was some pretty serious deterrent factor, if he could manage to make an offensive arm to the strategy I think it could work for Abysia.

Not that there wasn't any thought put into the offensive, it just needs to be tightened up a bit to be competitive - and maybe run as more of an early war strategy.


Unless the scales aren't what you mean, then I don't know. :D

[Wrana]

Scales are part of what I meant, I am interested in the whole. :) Yes, I know about consensus that Death scale allows to make strong SC or big bless and then go to early offensive. But this latter never materialized. He just sat tight. Maybe he wanted to research something, but bless strategy isn't particularly research-oriented afaik... And he had Tien Chi and Caelum as neighbors, both of which have easier time researching... And currently Vanheim also has excellent research.
Speaking of which - as a part of agreement existing between our Empire and the people of Vanheim, the Celestial Emperor hereby proclaims that an act of unprovoced agression performed by half-men of Pangaea makes them unfit for society of civilized people. So a Non-Agression Pact existing between us is hereby dismantled and we propose to enter a war on the side of our Vanheim allies.

[Valerius]

The nation of Vanheim thanks the noble Celestial Emperor for his support against the treacherous and aggressive half-men of Pangaea. Hopefully our nations can liberate the enslaved people of Pangaea's territories.

Hmm, well I guess that answers my question of what the terms of the Vanheim/Pangaea NAP were. Just to be clear: attacks can be launched on turn 58, with the battles fought on turn 59, correct?

[Wrana]

It's our pleasure to be able to help. :)

[Fakeymcfake]

Yeah, lets go by launch attacks on 58 to be fought on 59. Also I'm completely unshocked that the cowardly Tien Chi would wait until someone else took the initiative before turning their covetous eye upon my lands. By rights I should give you both to my harpies for their amusement. However, and let it be said that I am generous in nature, I will allow you both a quick and fairly painless death.

[Wrana]

It's very well that you are "unshocked". If you remained in shocked condition you couldn't fully appreciate what awaits you. :P
And if you can't tell peaceful from cowardly, let what follows be a lesson for you. Not that you will have much time to use fruits of this learning, but it will be good for your carma anyway. :)
And while generosity is a feature of higher nature, you can prove such by ceding your lands to us now if you couldn't help but show quite the opposite by attacking weak and peaceful Arcoscephales... :)

[Fakeymcfake]

Pah, the Arcos attacked ME first while I was more than happy to allow them their pitiful little mountain lands while I fought the enemy they were unable to defeat. And please, let me know when this shocking surprise occurs, I wouldn't want to miss it.

[Wrana]

Well, it was you who said that you was already shocked by the time... ;)
And don't worry, you won't mistake it... :grin:

[Wrana]

A question: I'm going on vacation starting Monday, probably for about 2 weeks. What do you think about postponing hosting for this time? For now I don't know whether a sub can be found in time...

[Fakeymcfake]

Post on sunday before you leave and if you are unable to find a sub. Unless anyone has objections we can probably put the game on hold for awhile. Pity though, it was just about to get exciting.

[Wrana]

It's a pity indeed that I have to go at such a moment. It's possible I'll find a sub in time... but last time I tried, it looked like I'm not the only one on vacation. :( In any case I will need some time to bring him/her up to date on nefarious plans...

[Wrana]

As expected, Pangaea choose to attack before the end of agreed time. :mad: Let's see what this will bring them... ;)
Maybe they'll get some idea of what awaits them from the spirited defence which our local militia put up, slaying enemies in greater numbers than they ever had...

[Fakeymcfake]

Sorry about that, I had thought that you'd be with Van on our agreement on attacks being launched on turn 58 to be fought on 59 since you threw yourself in with their lot. Furthermore, the Seraph you have lurking a few provinces back doesn't worry me in the slightest, actually I relish the opprotunity to wet my blade with it's holy blood.

[Wrana]

Certainly, you have absolutely no cause to worry. It wouldn't be painful in the slightest way... ;) And I'm absolutely not against a little backstabbing - just noting that according to terms of our NAP, the attack should occur starting with current turn. :) And it will, according to plan...

[Wrana]

Greetings to all! As I had no answer considering a sub for me in this game I now officially ask that, if someone doesn't turn up in 6-10 hours, the next turn to be postponed until my return which will occur at about 10th of September.

[Wrana]

Still no one. Please postpone hosting until my return or, if you don't want to, turn Tien Chi AI.

[JimMorrison]

This is a really tough situation..... Honestly I don't think the game will be very interesting without TC as an actual person, and playing. On the other hand, I'm not sure that this game has much of a future if we put it on hold for that long, after all the turns that just passed with nothing happening. 8 \

[Fakeymcfake]

Yeah, I can't say that letting things sit for another couple weeks will do any of us any good. And if we get rid of TC it throws the whole game out of whack. To be honest I've been dragging my feet with this game for awhile and I'd be fine with calling it now since I've really lost interest.

On another note, I'd also like to take this opprotunity to complement Valerius on his victory over my undead plant/skeleton hordes. An unsubtle solution for an unsubtle problem.

[Valerius]

Thanks, Fakeymcfake. It seemed like the safest way to deal with the horde - those sleep vines are dangerous, certainly no place for my pretender to be.

I'm only a sub, but I'm also ok with calling it a game. Once you lose momentum/interest in a game it's tough to get it going again.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well, since it is only the three of us left and it appears everyone is pretty much done I'm going to end the game. We had a good run aside from a string of subs and absences that threw the rhythm off towards the end and I have to say that I'm quite happy with my performance considering that this was the first multiplayer game I've played. Hope to see you guys in other games.

- Fakey

[JimMorrison]

<3

.