Naiads

[Lingchih]

Do Naiads really die slowly when they leave their home province, or is that part of the description just for flavor? I have had one away from her home prov for some time now, and she seems no worse for wear.

[Gandalf Parker]

If you check she should be losing 1 hit point each turn that she is away from home.

I often move them to another lab, have them summon another naiad, then return home. Then I have them summon lots of naiads since I love having them use the transform spell. Once they are transformed they can usually move around all the want to.

[PvK]

I thought that was just Hammadryads...

[Lingchih]

You're right Gandalf. She is losing 1 hp a turn. I just hadn't noticed it until now because she is fighting and gaining stars, and thus more hp each turn.

[Gandalf Parker]

Give her the Lycantropos Amulet and wait for her to change. Then she gains new abilities along with being able to move around without a hp loss.

Or take a stab at transforming her. I think that spell is a blast. The fact that each naiad can summon naiad, and each naiad can cast transform, sets them up as a factory in some event-placed laboratory that Im trying to figure out a purpose for. You can get some very interesting combat mages that way.

Either that or put no defense on such a random laboratory, fill it with naiads who can cast Charm, and one air mage who can cast Wind Ride. Turns that lab into a "grab enemy commanders and make them mine" factory. Double gains by depleting enemy armies and causing them to rout, plus gain interesting new commanders.

[QXel]

Wow, Gandalf!

The second idea makes me feel a newbie ... I've never think at some nasty tricks like this ... This makes me think that, even after two years of (almost) only Dom3 play, I just use about 10% of the possiblities of the game. Sob! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Meanwhile, I have a question on your first suggestion: is transform spell don't supposed to remove magic abilities from your commander ??? (I never used it too ... as I say, only 10%. At most.) I thought it turns your commander in another random unit, and if that unit is not a mage, then ... Poof! You had a Naiad, then, now it's a nice little Hoburg warrior!
I even thought that you could lose your commander state and be turn out in a simple unit... But, as I say, I never try it out, so I surely am seriously wrong...

By the way, same question about the Lycanthropos Amulet...

[MaxWilson]

I once bought that Couatl merc and had him Transform, just for kicks. He turned into a pig. I had him Transform again and it went bad and he died. That's about all the exposure I have to Transform--does it ever result in something GOOD?

It was fun, but kind of a waste of 30-odd nature gems.

-Max

P.S. QXel, magic abilities are independent of base unit type, which is why you keep them if you get Ritual of Rebirth'ed or something. Commander status is the same way. (It's theoretically possible to have the same nation as both a recruitable unit and a recruitable commander.) Transform will never cause you to lose commander status, and it should almost never cause you to lose magic paths. (I am not positive what happens if you transform into something which has #magicboost attribute.)

[thejeff]

Transform is a niche spell and it's not likely to result in something good, but it can remove limits from the original caster, as Gandalf suggests:

The Naiad's home province weakness.
Treelord's immobility.
Could add slots to something with minimal slots?
Immobile pretender?

[Baalz]

thejeff said:
Transform is a niche spell and it's not likely to result in something good, but it can remove limits from the original caster, as Gandalf suggests:

The Naiad's home province weakness.
Treelord's immobility.
Could add slots to something with minimal slots?
Immobile pretender?



Can also be used to get MA Oceana's Capricorns out the water without the crippling magic penalty, though you'll likely end up with animal MR combined with above average HPs so good luck using them in combat.

[calmon]

Transformation is also a risky spell because you've a good chance to feeblemind your commander!

[cleveland]

In CBM it's only 3N, and at that price, I found it extremely cost effective for my LA Pangaea Pans & Panic Apostates (330 & 320 gold, respectively; neither are sacred).

The spell turned 22 gold/turn units into 0 gold/turn animals. The major drawbacks are the chance of feeblemind (I guesstimate that's around 10-15%) and the loss of slots (most of the animals only have misc slots). However, I did once get a flying, fire-breathing chimera that could self-cast Invulnerability & Personal Regeneration; another time, I got a Winged Monkey with full slots. More typically, you get various animals with interesting abilities (like mountain-survival cave drakes, flying wyverns, or stealthy moose).

Plus, when your unit becomes feebleminded, it always transforms into a Foul Spawn of some variety, which can be not-so-terrible...

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3719/foulslk8.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foulslk8.jpg)

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive had excellent results with it. Sure some of the results have lost slots, and some of the results have died or been worthless. But in general its been something that was fun to make use of. The magic almost always stayed the same. Almost all had leadership (many increased that stat). Almost always it was a nice increase in hit points, armor class, movement, morale, and special abilities. I had particular fun with the Great Eagle, Hydra Hatchling, and Giant Spider.

Its probably not a good spell for the spreadsheet strategists in a small MP game. But its a blast in a large solo game.

Edit: added note. The terrain its cast in does make a difference. Ive also had naiad turned into a sea serpent at a water lab.

[ano]

The terrain its cast in does make a difference. Ive also had naiad turned into a sea serpent at a water lab.


Does it mean that you can never be feebleminded underwater as there can be no foul spawn? (I know that one of the spawns has water breathing but I don't believe this was thought of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[Wrana]

Do I remember correctly that your Luck score has an effect on Transform results?

[Gandalf Parker]

ano said:

The terrain its cast in does make a difference. Ive also had naiad turned into a sea serpent at a water lab.


Does it mean that you can never be feebleminded underwater as there can be no foul spawn? (I know that one of the spawns has water breathing but I don't believe this was thought of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)


Interesting. I only made one. The Sea Serpent wasnt very interesting and I couldnt think of many things in the water that would be interesting. Maybe I should have tried more.

[JimMorrison]

Hmmmm.....

What would you say the approximate odds are of having hand slots? So say if you had easy access to N2 mages that you wanted to mass transform using Thistle Mace to boost them, would you lose too many maces to even keep the serendipity value? I suppose if you had access to Moonvine Bracelet, they all have misc slots, so 90% of the time you'd be fine, you'd only lose it if they died?

[Gandalf Parker]

The terrain would affect the percentages. And luck also I believe. But in any case, I suspect that the animal forms outnumber the other forms, so you percentage would probably be bad.

[Baalz]

Gandalf Parker said:

ano said:

The terrain its cast in does make a difference. Ive also had naiad turned into a sea serpent at a water lab.


Does it mean that you can never be feebleminded underwater as there can be no foul spawn? (I know that one of the spawns has water breathing but I don't believe this was thought of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)


Interesting. I only made one. The Sea Serpent wasnt very interesting and I couldnt think of many things in the water that would be interesting. Maybe I should have tried more.



I've made sharks and sea lions underwater.

[Endoperez]

JimMorrison said:
mass transform using Thistle Mace to boost them, would you lose too many maces to even keep the serendipity value?



You don't lose the Thistle Maces. They are put into a lab if there's one in the province, i.e. every time unless there's some weird bug with the lab-destroying event, which probably would have been noticed already.

[JimMorrison]

Oh really, it goes into the lab? So you'd only lose the Mace on death then? That's pretty neat, I'll have to do a test on it, since there seems to be some confusion surrounding this still. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Endoperez]

JimMorrison said:
Oh really, it goes into the lab? So you'd only lose the Mace on death then? That's pretty neat, I'll have to do a test on it, since there seems to be some confusion surrounding this still. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif



Transformation can kill the caster? The worst result I got was a feeble-minded Dragonfly.

[MaxWilson]

Do you take Luck scales? I take Misfortune-3 habitually and my one experience with Transformation went Couatl->pig->death.

-Max

[HoneyBadger]

Do Johan or Kristoffer have any ETA on when we might get the ability to mod things like this? Add to the freakshow that is the Misbred? Or to Void summons, or even the mercenary bank, and summons like Summon Demon Lord, etc.? I'd love to add the Muspel Jotun jarl Surtr as a mercenary.

I realize that the Devs are overworked-although hopefully not underappreciated!-and there are lots of things on their plate right now, but I think we could have a lot of fun with randomness, especially now that we're getting uniqueness tag.

[Endoperez]

MaxWilson said:
Do you take Luck scales? I take Misfortune-3 habitually and my one experience with Transformation went Couatl->pig->death.

-Max



It was a test game, so neutral scales. Temperature varied slightly.

[chrispedersen]

there was a pretty significant thread on this awhile back, on what creatures answered the summons in what terrain...

[Sombre]

HoneyBadger said:
Do Johan or Kristoffer have any ETA on when we might get the ability to mod things like this? Add to the freakshow that is the Misbred? Or to Void summons, or even the mercenary bank, and summons like Summon Demon Lord, etc.? I'd love to add the Muspel Jotun jarl Surtr as a mercenary.

I realize that the Devs are overworked-although hopefully not underappreciated!-and there are lots of things on their plate right now, but I think we could have a lot of fun with randomness, especially now that we're getting uniqueness tag.



Uniqueness isn't really hard to get without the new tag.

What are misbred?