The Ancient Olm, a viable strategy?

[Itchykobu]

This guy is my favorite character. For reasons I can't explain, I really enjoy the blind cave salamander theme. I'm currently pulling a 6E6W Ancient Olm pretender who has racked up hundreds of kills, 3 of which were an enemy Draikana pretender (I'm playing against CPU).

Now, there is a big "HOWEVER" clause here. 1) I'm a complete newbie to this game, so I'm still learning a lot of ins and outs. 2) The AO pretender has lower stats in all areas compared to most pretenders (in fact, I'm surprised I've done so well with him). I can't find many pluses to using this guy, other than the large success I've experienced.

The first game I played I tried a solid D9 pretender and tried to blitz to researching Utter Dark (those Olms are good at night!). Unfortunately, the other pretenders got globals out way before I did, and my empire crumbled. So, I tossed away the Utter Dark strategy.

Now my victories sound like quite random circumstance compared to last game. Does anyone else use the Ancient Olm? If so, what are the real ups of using this guy? I'm certain my luck is either (a) random and can't hold out forever, or (b) randomly good choices by me that I should repeat.

Input?

[quantum_mechani]

It's certainly possible to do well with the Olm, but I would not say he is very optimal, compared to the risen oracle. His main problem is low dominion and lack of fear, meaning it's not too hard for even chaff to swarm him to death.

[Cor2]

IIRC I use it as a imprisoned 9e9w bless, good for all those fun statues and stuff and good for you mages.

[JimMorrison]

Yeah, thing is, anything can be viable in SP, that's half the fun of the AI, is it will allow you to make even the most improbable strategy succeed, if you put enough effort out.

On the other hand, as far as MP goes, the Olm is not very good as an SC. The first problem is, to make it work for any kind of bless, you won't afford to have him be awake. but if you have him awake, he doesn't start with Fear or Awe, or any armor, so he will not get you very far, and in MP your SC is either awake, or a very bad idea (there is a niche for highly developed strats involving Cons 4 at the end of year 1, and a sleeping pretender, but few even try to make it viable).

So as Cor says, really the only reason you'd want the Olm is to imprison for blesses. Unfortunately for Agartha, Earth bless is fairly useless for your summoned statues. Plus, everyone seems to agree that Agartha NEEDS at least a minor Fire bless. What it comes down to, is that the Olm would be amazing for most other nations (W and E are my favorite majors), but is not a very efficient way to spend points for Agartha. A shame, really, he really is SO COOL. I tried to use him once as an awake SC when I first started playing. Squished worm, he didn't stand a chance.

[Kuritza]

Anyway, it feels rather strange that Olms arent reflected in the Agartha race. There's that Olm pretender, and there are half-Olm heroes. Other than that, there's no hint that they are even there.

[HoneyBadger]

My feeling is that Agartha should be revamped, atleast EA Agartha, and given access to all sorts of weird underground creatures, mainly as summons. We're seeing a lot of new nations, lately, that get literally dozens of national summons (Lanka stands out, but also Gath and Bogarus), and I think the older nations deserve some of the same treatment. And personally, while I'd love to see more underground nations (there's 3 ocean nations plus all the amphibians, and only one cave nation? gnomes anyone?), Agartha's basically it. So it would be great if they could get more summons. There's tons of cave weirdness out there that would *easily* fit into the game, to great effect.

[Zeldor]

Wait for new CBM version better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


HoneyBadger: Acutally Agartha is one of the best nations when it comes to summons. Especially when you count 'old' nations. There are other nations that could use tweaking more, for example Man.

[Lingchih]

Good, but some of us do not play CBM. I only play it one mp game and one test game, myself.

[HoneyBadger]

I know they're not bad, Zeldor, compared to most of the other nations, but compared to the new nations, they're still slightly lacklustre, and underground creatures-even the real ones like the olm, let alone fictional monsters, like the ancient olm-are just terribly interesting.

By the way, if you've never been inside a real cave, I highly recommend it. The experience can be every bit as alien as the bottom of the ocean.

[Zeldor]

The new nations are mostly overpowered, hard to compare anything vanilla. Especially when we talk for example about Lords of Civilization.

And I would classify Umrals as one of the best summons in the game when it comes to price/value ratio. I wish they came as commanders though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[MaxWilson]

Why not just give a Black Servant a leper rod or something? I guess that still doesn't let you thug out Umbrals, but at least you can have stealthy Umbral armies.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

I don't think he was complaining that Agartha needs a "boost" to become more powerful. Just that there is this wealth of underground content that is begging to be unleashed on the surface world, and Agartha is currently the only vehicle that can carry it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PvK]

The Ageless Olm is clearly the olmtimate weapon!

I use him as a nice thematic mellow low-cost pretender and/or for EW bless or scales. He can support an army and survive attempts to kill him with things which would work against weaker pretenders, but I'd not try to make him be a super combatant.

[chrispedersen]

Of the three new nations, Gath, Ashdod and hinnom
after playing extensively, I would argue hinnom is super strong (hell I took out vanheim in a rush! in MP) but the other nations I would argue are weak.

Way too resourse intensive.

[MaxWilson]

Ashdod weak? Wow. I'm tapering off on Ashdod play in SP because I'm starting to feel guilty using them, like I used to feel guilty about Helheim (pre-Svartalf-adjustment) because the game is too easy. Ashdod is Niefelheim-strength sacreds with EA C'tis and LA Agartha's mages, plus Pythium's national summons. Very, very solid, very flexible. Hire Obscuro to forge some Winged Boots and there is NOTHING I want in a nation that I don't have in Ashdod.

-Max

[Tifone]

Sorry for going a little OT, but as we're talking about Agarthan pretenders... Did anybody try the Drakaina as a pretender? Her theme and flavour seems a masterpiece to me ^^

[Itchykobu]

I've been railing the CPU-controlled enemy Drakaina that Atlantis has been using. Maybe the CPU is just horribly misusing her, but my Olm has been eating her for breakfast.

(do Olms eat breakfast?....)

[Itchykobu]

What I've been liking about the Olms is their 0 supply usage. I have several armies of "better" troops, that keep running out of food.

My Olm armies are steam-rolling the opposition on numbers alone and require 0 supplies on top of it all, while my others are dying of disease.

[MaxWilson]

I didn't think Olms were recruitable or summonable--I thought you only got them as multiheroes. How do you get enough Olms for supply to be an issue?

-Max

[JimMorrison]

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Agarthans themselves there. They have NNE, which is an incredible boon of course, if only they could face LA Ermor..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[HoneyBadger]

Agartha, by the way, isn't just a name the Devs made up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartha

Pretty interesting stuff.

[Agema]

HoneyBadger said:
(there's 3 ocean nations plus all the amphibians, and only one cave nation? gnomes anyone?)



Just for pedantry's sake, there are 2 cave nations: Abysia is the other.

* * *

Agartha isn't a bad nation in any age. In EA and MA you can easily get into the water which gives a useful extra dimension, and in EA Agartha wouldn't be too horribly outclassed by the water specialists in a fight. Agartha also has unique summons in all ages, all of which are useful and effective. (Umbrals particularly make great thugs if gift of reasoned.)

I don't rate the Olm pretender highly: it's not a particularly good SC, Dom chassis, or powerful mage. It's not bad at any of them either, but that means it's just okay.

[HoneyBadger]

Abysia is the volcano nation, they don't really have much to do with caves. Magma tubes you could argue, I suppose.

[Tifone]

Hey, the Wiki voice about Agartha doesn't say anything about it being a nation in Dom3, while talking about it in other games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif ... maybe someone can put it on?

[Itchykobu]

MaxWilson said:
I didn't think Olms were recruitable or summonable--I thought you only got them as multiheroes. How do you get enough Olms for supply to be an issue?

-Max



My bad. I meant the pale folk of all sorts. Pale Ones, Wet Ones, Cave Guard .....

[JimMorrison]

You're right Tifone, but it DOES say that Patala is IN Agartha. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Tifone]

Yah, along with Ulm, Lanka, Marignon and Caelum, didn't you know u n00b?????????? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[HoneyBadger]

Some people have a real gift for incomprehensibility.

The Ancient Olm would be a great Pretender candidate for allowing it to have access to it's own set of spells. Weird summons, strange underground magicks, claustrophobia induced fear-effects, etc. Still determined, ofcourse, by the paths you chose for it, as a player.