Artifacts Forgery (starting soon)

[quantum_mechani]

Since Artifacts seemed a popular game concept and is full, I'm testing the waters to see how much interest there is in running a second instance of the setup. For those who didn't read the first thread, the idea is giving each nation an assortment of artifacts and other items at the start of the game (list at the end of the post).

Settings:
Era: LA
Mods: Conceptual Balance 1.3 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3smm&Number=624209&page=0 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) (includes worthy heroes)
Hall of Fame: 15
Other settings default

House Rules:
Only human pretenders (10 new path cost and under 20 HP)

Players:

jazzerpi: Ulm
Konming: Arco
Juffos: Man
meister_miagi: Gath
Rytek: Pan
JimMorrison: Patala
DakaSha: Jomon
Dragar: Pythium
Unoptimized: Marignon
Isokron: C'tis
Bwaha: Bogarus
WingedDog: Atlantis
Fickle: T'ien Ch'i
Janlm: Mictlan
Tgbob: Abysia
fungalreason: Utgard


Artifacts:

Arco: Aegis, Armor of Virtue, Aefisks Armor
Extras: Stymphalian Wing 2x, Moon Blade x5, Horn of Valour x2, Rainbow Armor x2, Entire enchanted trinket set, Stone idol x3

Man: Chalice, Robe/Boots of Calius, Percival
Extras: Piercer x2, Longbow of Accuracy x2, Eye of Aiming x2, Shield of Valour x2, Elf Bane x2, Stone Bird x2, Pocket Ship x2, Red/Blue/Green DSM

Ulm: Mage Bane, Black Mirror, Horror Harmonica
Extras: Implementor Axe x2, Lead Shield x2, Doom Glaive x3, Halberd of Might x3, Ethereal Crossbow x5

Mari: Sword of Justice, Sun Equipment, Admiral's Sword, Forbidden Light
Extras: Brimstone boots x2, Holy Scourge x4, Just man's Cross x5, Flamebue, Shroud of the Battle Saint x2

Mict: Scepter of Corruption, Flesh Ward, Gift of Kurgi
Extras: Heart of life x5, The Black Heart x5, Slave Collar x5, Hunter's Knife x4, Heart Finder Sword

TC: Sword of the Aurgemler, Barrier
Extras: Smasher x3, Robe of Missile Protection x5, Staff of Corrosion x2, Slave matrix x4, Master matrix, Bell of cleansing x4

Jomon: Ember, Sword of Many Colors, Crown of Overmight, Ruby Eye
Extras: Demon Bane x4, Crystal Shield x2, Chi Shoes x4, Sword of Sharpness x2, Elemental Armor, Bow of War x4

Agartha: Stone Sword, Hammer of the Moutains, Tartarian Chains
Extras: Banefire Crossbow x5, Shadow Brand x2, Boots of Stone x2, Champions Skull x5, Faithful x2, Silver Hauberk x2

Aby: Oal Kans Scepter, Unquenched Sword, Infernal Sword, Precious
Extras: Hell Sword x2, Fire Bola x5, Medallion of Vengeance x6, Fire Sword x2, Star of Heroes x2, Demon Whip x2

Caelum: Tempest, Igor Konhelm's Tome
Extras: Black Bow of Botulf x2, Thunder Bow x3, Thunder Whip x2, Amulet of Missle Prot. x5, Lightning Rod x2, Barrel of Air x2, Ice Sword x2

CTis: Woundflame, Ankh, Crown of Katafagus, Crown of Ptah
Extras: Lantern Shield x3, Evening Star x2, Serpent's Kryss x2, Whip of Command x3, Rod of the Leper King x2, Snake bladder stick x2

Pan: Harvest Blade, Fenris Pelt, Crown of the Ivy King, Carcator, Holger
Extras: Ivy Crown x4, Skull Standard x3, Vine whip x5, Summer Sword x3, Bear Claw Talisman x4, Rat tail x2

Midgard: Flying Ship, The Summit, Pebble Skin Suit
Extras: Lightning Spear x2, Stinger x2, Ice Pebble Staff x3, Spirit Helmet x2, Banner of the Northern Star, Weightless Armor Set, Lychatrops Amulet x2

Utgard: Winter Bringer, Monolith Armor, Rod of Death
Extras: Duskdagger x2, Knife of the Damned x5, Totem Shield x4, Berserker Pelt x3, Bane venom charm x2, Boots of long Strides x5, Sword of Swiftness x2, Barkskin amulet x3

Patala: Dimensional Rod, Krupp's Bracers, Sharpest Tooth, Green Eye
Extras: Robe of Invulnerability x2, Jade Armor x2, Axe of Hate x2, Robe of the Shadows x2, Astral Serpent x4, Stone Sphere x2, Crown of Command x3

Gath: The Ark, Procus's Axe, Picus's Axe
Extras: Flesh Eater x4, Midget Masher x2, Wall Shaker x1, Crystal heart x5 , Blood Thorn

Atlantis: Sunslayer, Orb of Atlantis, Nethgul
Extras: Wraith Sword, Bane Blade x2, Wave Breaker x2, Rime Haubrek x2, Bone Armor x2, Bottle of living Water x3

Pythium: Amon Hotep, Trident from Beyond, Shortsword, Boots of Antaeus
Extras: Gloves of the Gladiator x4, Snake Ring x2, Hydra Skin Armor x2, Thorn Staff x4, Dancing Trident x2, Ring of Warning x5, Scutata Volterus

Bogarus: Oath Rod of Kurgi, Ardmon's Soul Trap, Sword of Injustice, Boots of the Planes, Alchemists Stone, Twin spear
Extras: Elixir of Life x4, Scepter of Authority x3, Shield of the Accursed x2, Boots of Youth x3, Ring of the Warrior x3

[Dragar]

I'm on the wait list for the other game, if I don’t' get in there am keen on this one

[konming]

Would be interesting. Count me in.

1. Arco
2. Marignon
3. Midgard

[Juffos]

I would like to join.

1. Man
2. Jomon
3. Marignon

[meister_miagi]

Sound really cool, I'd like to play in this.

1. Gath
2. Ulm
3. Mictlan

[Heinrich]

Please count me in.

Wishes:
1. Ulm
2. Pangea
3. Man

[Jazzepi]

Post deleted by Jazzepi

[JimMorrison]

Looks like the other is full, I'd love to play in this one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Just suffered my first MP elimination, it's all uphill from here!

1. Jomon
2. Patala
3. Marignon

[DakaSha]

yay me me me !!!

edit: that means count me in in case that wasnt understood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[DakaSha]

1. Arco
2. Pythium
3. Utgard

[quantum_mechani]

Bump for name change. Also, please do post your nation picks.

[Dragar]

1. Gath
2. Pythium
3. Arco

[quantum_mechani]

So, recruitment seems to have ground to a halt. I'd like input- go with what we have or keep bumping for more players?

[Jazzepi]

quantum_mechani said:
So, recruitment seems to have ground to a halt. I'd like input- go with what we have or keep bumping for more players?



You might want to explain the terms of the game, the map it's played on. Everyone seems to be listing three nations, but there's nothing in the original post to explain why.

Take a look at one of the game threads I've started for a template to help give people the info they need up front.

Jazzepi

[JimMorrison]

I think he assumed we had all read the original thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

It looks like there's only about 8 signups so far - I'm really not fond of full games with 8 players - seems a few get knocked out fast, and then the game is almost over already.

[DakaSha]

bumping

[Unoptimized]

Hrm. I'm unfamiliar with CBM, but this game does seem really cool.

1) Mictlan
2) Midgard
3) Ulm

[DakaSha]

well im gonna pull back my nation selection until we have all the players. im really unfamiliar with LA and itll give me time to get some more experience before selecting a nation

[Unoptimized]

Hrm. On second thought, I'd like to change about my choices a teeny bit.

1) Ulm
2) Mictlan
3) Marig

As far as I know, someone else has Ulm as their first pick. Clearly, we must fight to the death http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[Isokron]

Im new to dominions MP but if you need someone easy to kill im interested

1) Ctis
2) Abysia
3) Pythium

[Bwaha]

Heh.
1) Bogarus
2) Mictlan
3) Gath
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif I'm not afraid of horror mark, but I should be... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[DakaSha]

thre is no ryleh

[WingedDog]

May I try?
1. Pan
2. Atlantis
3. Bogarus

[Fickle]

Count me in

1. Ctis
2. TC
3. Agartha

[Janlm]

i'd like to join if there is still room
i guess we need a list of three choices?

1. Bogarus
2. Mictlan
3. Gath

[Ossa]

1. Bogarus
2. Ulm
3. Jomon

[DakaSha]

16 players

we just need 3 more ^^

[tgbob]

I'll be a spot filler if you'll have me.

1) Abysia
2) Caelum
3) CTis

[fungalreason]

I'll join too

1) Utgard
2) Abysia
3) Mictlan

[DakaSha]

whoohoo 1 more.

ok ill play:

1. Jomon
2. Arcosephale
3. Gath

[quantum_mechani]

I think you miscounted, we are short 3 by my count (jazzepi seems to have pulled out).

[DakaSha]

yeah possible i only went over it quick. well then 3 more!

[konming]

What map are we going to play? I was hoping for a pure land map with 15 province/player.

[quantum_mechani]

Well, the easiest would be the same as the other artifact game. If people have strong preference though, I could be convinced to set one up on a different map.

[konming]

19 players for less than 190 land that's rush heaven.

And considering Antilarium is minimally balanced for 9 land players (some players get all the waste provinces around him, but at least capitals are far away), 19 players would mean someone has nothing but waste close to his capital.

[DakaSha]

as far as i know the cracks in irc are setting it up inm a balanced way. at least thats what ive heard out of their discussions

[quantum_mechani]

I'll also note rushing is a heck of a lot harder with human pretenders.

[konming]

You can easily get F9W9 for mictlan and quite decent scales with an arch mage. Remember in CBM 1.3 rainbow mages get a decrease in cost. Or E9N9 bless for utgard. And so on. Let's not forget about elephants. With many capitals 3 hexes away, it is kind of hard to defeat elephants in your capital in turn 5.

[konming]

And with human pretenders, it is a heck lot of harder to defend against rush for some nations.

[konming]

I recommend plain old random map with 15 provinces/player or alexander map - 247 land provinces, with many natural barriers. But if the orgnizer wants to encourage blitz, I am OK with it.

[quantum_mechani]

Well, mainly I'm just not too eager to set up a whole new map with all the artifacts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But if the consensus is for a new map, I could probably be persuaded.

[quantum_mechani]

Last few players seem hard to find... this enough for everyone? Does mean people are more likely to get nation picks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Dragar]

yeah lets get on with it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DakaSha]

whatever im ready whenever everybody else is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[JimMorrison]

Wait, rushing? Seriously? You'd rush someone who had The Ark, or Stone Sword, or Aegis laying around? I don't think this whole blitzing idea was thought through very thoroughly. You can bless all you want, and buy elephants til they fall out of your bum, but you'll be playing a BIG gamble if you go after someone's capital too early in this one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

My only comment on the map - if it was balanced starting spots for the full game - it wouldn't be too hard to just wiggle a couple of people over so no one has a much larger empty space next to them, from one of the absentees? Just guessing you wouldn't need to do much but transpose a couple of province numbers in the file. If I'm wrong, no biggie, I am ready to make a pretender! <3

[Unoptimized]

I'm totally ready. Also, the sooner I know who I'm playing, the sooner I can start putting together some sort of coherent strat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Janlm]

is something going to happen here soon?

[quantum_mechani]

Nations are now assigned (see first post), any late comers can have their pick of the leftover on a first come first serve basis. I'll put together a map in the next few days, in the meantime heres how to run test games to try your artifacts/pretenders:

*Download the zip attached to this post, put the map and map image in your map folder, everything else in the mods folder.

*Start up dominions and enable CB and the artifacts mod.

*Make a pretender (remember, humans only) and start a game on the map Antilarium, no sites version.

*Click change shape on all your artifact holder commanders to unload them.

[DakaSha]

yay! [/childishness]

[tgbob]

Thanks for taking the time and effort on putting together a kustom map there QM.

[quantum_mechani]

Well, it won't be a whole map, just custom locations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

But thanks.

[Janlm]

I suppose smoking mirror does not count as a human then?

[JimMorrison]

Is 20hp the only actual distinction? Does Smoking Mirror have more than that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

I'm having so much trouble making a Patala pretender..... I've always wanted to give them a shake, but really assumed no one else would jump on Jomon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Also my tests show that while I have some pretty neat gear, no combination of my starting items seems to result in a thug that can solo indies. What a bummer! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[quantum_mechani]

Janlm said:
I suppose smoking mirror does not count as a human then?

Yeah, sorry, not quite human.

[Dragar]

Yeah likewise Pyth was my second choice, didn't pay too much attention to the synergy of items with their units.. have no idea what to do with most of them, they don't fit at all. If anyone wants to trade for any pyth items (Boots of Antaeus the only ones I won't trade) let me know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Recruitable thug nations, like the giant races (Gath scary, they were my first pick), are going the be the danger early on. Arco could be nasty too with Tempest

[Janlm]

20 hp and new path cost can't be more than 10. Unfortunately smoking mirror got a new path cost of 20. Even though he is just as human as the other human pretenders! this is racism!

[JimMorrison]

Obviously Smoking Mirror is some sort of genetic throwback, what with his poor ability to acquire new magical skills. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Maybe I should see if there's a good Patala guide (pretty sure there is), cause I must be missing something really cool I can do with them. Though, a somewhat "standard" idea isn't going to take me any indie provinces with their magic goodies, I don't think. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I am honestly totally amazed how often Light Infantry can get a double digits damage on a Naga with Robe of Invulnerability on..... it seems so very wrong.....

Anyone have a decent shield they'd be willing to part with? I got some neat stuff to trade. >.>

[Dragar]

I have a Scutata Volterus up for grabs.. unfortunately not sure I really need anything Patala has (short of the artifacts themselves), its mostly thug equipment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Janlm]

when can we upload pretenders?

[quantum_mechani]

Sent llamabeast the new map file, so as soon as it's on the server I can start it up and people can start uploading pretenders.

[PsiSoldier]

If there is still room I would like to join as Agartha if its still open

[quantum_mechani]

Game is now up to upload pretenders.

Psi: I'm afraid the map is now set for number of players... however in the quite likely event that somone drops and fails to upload their pretender, I'll let you know so you can take over.

[konming]

Only five pretenders uploaded. Hopefully with the board up again, the pace will pick up.

[DakaSha]

i wasnt able to as i had not yet downloaded the mods ^^

[konming]

You need only CBM 1.3 to create pretenders. You need both CBM 1.3 and artifacts holder mod to play.

[Janlm]

Yeah i'll upload my pretender soonish

[JimMorrison]

Hey, I think I'm gonna drop out of this one. I tried a bunch of test builds on the map, and I'm really just not feeling inspired by any of them. Maybe I just need to play Patala in a non-modded game first, get a better feel for them.

If PsiSoldier still has some time on his hands, he can have my spot? <3

[DakaSha]

how lame :P

[WingedDog]

Looks like some people are unable to upload their pretenders for a week. Maybe they have no idea the game started or even forgot about it. Were they notified? If they were, and still not responding, shouldn't we start to search substitutions already?

[konming]

It appears that five people have yet to upload their pretenders:

Ossa: Ulm
Juffos: Man
Heinrich: Pan
JimMorrison: Patala
Bwaha: Bogarus

JimMorrison has quit and Bwaha is having some personal problems and went AI in several games. I wonder why the other three has not uploaded their pretenders yet. And we would need two subs.

[WingedDog]

On the llamaserver game page http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Forgery there is some Chelms nation joined... As I recall there's no such a nation, so what does this mean?

[fungalreason]

Chelms is LA man.

[WingedDog]

Oh, right... :) Towers of Chelms, just figured it out, thought itwas some sort of bug, sorry... :)

[quantum_mechani]

So, any opinions about the next step? Should I remake the map again with only 12 spots?

[DakaSha]

i personally dont really care.
i guess we should get a roll call for whos still here/interested and yeah then just start.

[WingedDog]

Maybe we'd change topic subject from "starting soon"to "recruiting", and find 4 more players?

[Dragar]

yeah, lets try and recruit 4 more. After the work you put in woul dbe a shame for it to be less than you planned

[quantum_mechani]

Well, bad news, editing the title of the first post no longer edits the thread name on the new forum...

[WingedDog]

I'll start a new topic with a link to this one.

[PsiSoldier]

Ok I am trying to find Conceptual Balance and Artifacts Mods but with the update to the forums none of the old links work. Can anyone post a new link to the mods.

[WingedDog]

Here you are.

[PsiSoldier]

Got it. Thanks.

[Rytek]

Doyou still need players? And if so, which nations are available?

[quantum_mechani]

Still do, Ulm, Bogarus or Pangaea.

[Jazzepi]

I'll take Ulm.

Jazzepi

[Rytek]

Ok, Ill take Pan

[konming]

I'll take Ulm.

Jazzepi

This map is based on Antilarium map (the one with lots of choke points). Just to let you know. :)

[Jazzepi]

While that's annoying, as long as there aren't VPs filled with huge stacks of strange, powerful units NEXT TO MY CAPITAL, I doubt it'll be that bad.

Jazzepi

[Janlm]

so only need one more? hope we can fill it out, before someone else drops out suddently..

[Arralen]

Do you still need players? And if so, which nations are available?
Last time it was "Ulm, Bogarus or Pangaea" .. but Ulm and Pan are taken now .. which nations are considered "dropped out" now?

[WingedDog]

Still room for Bogarus.

[WingedDog]

Actually the choises are: Bogarus, Agartha, Midgard.

[quantum_mechani]

The other two would mean redoing the map though. ;)

[konming]

Which should not be a problem. :) If you do not have time, I can help do the conversion easily.

[Arralen]

All 3 are not my top choices, actually, not my choice at all. Sorry, will pass on this ... :/

[Jazzepi]

Lets get this game started!

Jazzepi

[WingedDog]

Lets get this game started!

Jazzepi

Maybe you'd like to upload pretender for a start?

As you can see here: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Forgery everybody's just waiting for Ulm and Bogarus.

[Jazzepi]

Done. Actually I thought I had put it up earlier.

I'm pretty sure there's nobody for Bogarus.

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

Is it as tiny map as other artifact game? If it's big enough I could consider joining and filling that gap [assuming that place is free].

[Jazzepi]

Okay, I uploaded. Apparently I sent it to "artifact2" instead of "Forgery".

Now everything looks good.

Jazzepi

[konming]

Is it as tiny map as other artifact game? If it's big enough I could consider joining and filling that gap [assuming that place is free].

It is as tiny. However we have 3 less nations, so it will be much less crowded.

[Zeldor]

I am not touching anything with less than 15 provs per player. I think base map gave like 10 provs, so here it may be 12-13, way too small.

[Dragar]

its all good, will bring all those artifacts into play nice and early :)

[WingedDog]

I'm just afraid when the game finally starts we'd have a lot of staleing players, becouse peretenders are bieng uploaded for the second week, and I think many people have already forgotten about the game...

[Jazzepi]

Quantum, if you want this game to ever do anything besides take up space on the forums, you need to get it started ASAP. The more time between the game's initial post, and when it starts, the more people will either forget about it.

We might not have one or two nations. But it's time to start, now, not later.

Jazzepi

[Janlm]

Agreed, lets get this game started before its too late.. (it might already be)

[Janlm]

Ok I think i'm going to assume that this game has died out already.

[quantum_mechani]

Sorry, I've been away the last couple of days. I bit the bullet and hit start game.

[WingedDog]

Well, let's hope people would remember the game, when they receive e-mail.

[PsiSoldier]

This is dumb.. some of my best artifacts are cursed and I cant get them from this damn winged monkey they started on.. I got screwed.

[fungalreason]

Select the monkeys and choose the "Change Shape" command in the list of orders. That will put all the artifacts they are carrying into the lab.

[Unoptimized]

Hey guys, bit of an emergency came up and I don't think I can get this turn in on time. Considering the absurd degree of importance, would you folks mind pushing back the time by 24 hours?

[konming]

The first turn is not due until around this time tommorow.

[konming]

Since Marignon staled the first turn, I guess we are in for a roll back. Otherwise Marignon is out of the game already. To ensure that no one gained information from his first turn, I guess QM can roll back and let Unoptimized send in his turn then immediately force host. This way, everyone's old 2h will be used.

[DakaSha]

ugh yes please rollback

[konming]

So what's the plan? Just continue and let Marignon drop?

[Dragar]

We might as well, be a shame to lose someone this early

[konming]

The thing is, he did request a delay. And the game admin was just not paying attention. I also feel partially responsible by posting after him saying there was plenty of time. Apperantly that was not enough for Unoptimized. It would be nice if QM read this thread since he is the game admin after all.

[quantum_mechani]

I'm sorry, I've been very busy lately, I read unoptimized's request but then I was under the impression the turn was going to take long enough anyway. If there are no objections I'll hand admining to jazzerpi who offered to take over.

[Jazzepi]

If you're going to have me admining, you'll need to PM me the password so that I can take over.

Jazzepi

[AreaOfEffect]

Sorry about the trouble guys. I will go with whatever resolution is more convenient to you lot.

[Unoptimized]

ACK! Sorry, my buddy AOE was over earlier, and I apparently wrote the reply in his name as opposed to my own. You guys can go with whatever solution is best for the game and all of you :).

[konming]

I would say roll back. It is not fair someone got dropped through admin negligence, and it is bad for the game when your two neighbors suddenly finds a lot more land to expand to than anyone else. And I do apologize for my misleading post.

[Dragar]

yep lets roll it back

[Janlm]

so did we roll back? I just received turn 3...

[Jazzepi]

I don't have admin access as QM has never PMed me the password.

If I'm assuming role of the admin, I don't see how we can roll back two turns at this point, so we're not going to roll back.

Jazzepi

[konming]

Technically it is doable. You can even restart game. Whether or not we will do this, however, is probably best left to all players to decide.

[DakaSha]

then why dont we just restart. this game is already pointless

[Jazzepi]

then why dont we just restart. this game is already pointless

Only one person (Marignon) has even had a single stale. Everyone else has gotten their turns in on time. I'll get it setup so that Marignon is set to AI, and we can move on with the game.

I know it sucks for unoptimized, but I'd rather keep the game moving then restart now.

Jazzepi

[konming]

His stale killed all his artifacts so there is no point for him to continue. Besides, his stale is not his fault. This map is so interconnected that removing one player benefits two neighbors tremendously.

[fungalreason]

My vote would be to continue.

[Rytek]

Oh hell I dont care. Since my fat *** Minotaur champion with the sickle got the one heroic ability which makes him nearly useless. Heroic Fatness really ticks me off!

[Jazzepi]

Oh hell I dont care. Since my fat *** Minotaur champion with the sickle got the one heroic ability which makes him nearly useless. Heroic Fatness really ticks me off!

You can always stick the scythe on a guy casting magic. My understanding is that it works even if they don't attack with it!

Jazzepi

[DakaSha]

well u can count me out of this game

[Janlm]

well u can count me out of this game

how lame..

[DakaSha]

no its lame that that the game is just continued because the admin refuses to roll back a single turn (the most crucial turn by far) without even having a vote.

the players bordering marignon are going to have at least 1/4 more expansion room + 1 of them will get a capital fairly early,. (this is a vp game if you havnt noticed.. also the gem and sacred bonus would come into affect)

no point anymore... for all i know IM bordering marignon but thats just messed up.

[Janlm]

noone refused a rollback of a single turn, jazzepi simply hadn't received the admin password yet...

[WingedDog]

Will the independants be the same in the neighboring provinces if the game restarts? I think it's wrong if they are...

[konming]

It will be the same if we roll back turns, it will not if we restart. But I guess neither is going to happen since turn 4 is about to be out.

[Unoptimized]

Oh dear. It seems I've caused a bit of a mess. I thought we were just letting turns roll untill the turn rollback. If we don't want to wait, I can turn myself AI, although there seems to be some trepedation about that.

Again, I'm really sorry about all this.

[WingedDog]

No point to continue since we've lost two players in the very beginning. I vote for restart.

[archaeolept]

christ what a mess :)

the best solution, since all the players are at least playing, or wanting to play, is for Jazzepi to recreate the game and use the already submitted pretenders to get it rolling again - I believe he has that option, if QM has pm'ed him the admin info.

The non-sea indies should be random again, though that might not be the case.

personally, I think the map is a bit unbalanced, but running around w/ artifacts can be fun, even if they're mostly not so helpful :)

[Jazzepi]

no its lame that that the game is just continued because the admin refuses to roll back a single turn (the most crucial turn by far) without even having a vote.

the players bordering marignon are going to have at least 1/4 more expansion room + 1 of them will get a capital fairly early,. (this is a vp game if you havnt noticed.. also the gem and sacred bonus would come into affect)

no point anymore... for all i know IM bordering marignon but thats just messed up.

I didn't roll back the first turn because I didn't have the password until it was too late. If you want to annoy someone about it, PM QM.

I don't know how many games you've played in Daka, but if I restarted every time we lost someone to AI, then we'd never, ever, finish a game of Dom3. People going AI is just part of the game. At least if they do it early, those provinces surrounding them are still defending by neutrals.

By all accounts, a nation going AI in the late game (which happens all the time without a restart) is far worse, they tend to own far more land, and that land is filled with delicious site-searched goodies.

But, since everyone seems to be blowing a single person being AI way out of proportion, we'll restart. I'm sure they'll be plenty of grumbling about that, too.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

I went ahead and put in the restart. The game is back into "submit pretenders" mode, so you need to do what you did before, PM me if you need help.

We're not restarting a 2nd time after this, so don't ask.

Jazzepi

[konming]

There is a bug with restart command on llama's server. You should PM llama asking him to fix it. There is no need to resend pretenders. As soon as he fix it, you can start the game.

[Jazzepi]

I justtt noticed that after recreating the game. I'm going to boot it up now.

Jazzepi

[konming]

I would be surprised if your password is still valid. :) (Yes, that's a bug)

[Jazzepi]

Sigh!

Now the game is fubared. See, this is why I hate restarting when things are working.

I'm actually not sure how to fix it. Apparently llama will be back soon. Until he gets here we'll just have to put the game on hold.

Jazzepi

[konming]

He should be back today. So no worry.

[llamabeast]

Hrmm. Sorry about that. I haven't quite hunted down the bug yet (this evening hopefully), but the game is fixed again now anyway.

Thanks konming for the report.

[llamabeast]

Er, actually I accidentally started it too. Sorry. I had to guess what the maximum number of players was meant to have been, and set it to the same as the actual number of players, which caused it to start.

You can always restart again if you want. I'll make sure you don't have any more problems (or at least fix them quickly).

[PsiSoldier]

Errrr the game started and did not use the correct pretender for my nation.. that or the scales it started me with are simply not right.. I sent in my pretender for LA Patala and I got an email back saying my pretender was for an invalid age.. Now the game has started and it appearantly didnt use the correct one or something..

Although reading the last few posts, I dont know if this is for real or if you already know its messed up or what the hell is going on.

[konming]

No the game was not accepting new pretenders. You were using your old pretender, which you submitted some time ago.

[PsiSoldier]

Ahh. K too bad I had refined my pretender since then the new one would have been a lot better.. Oh well, I take it this is a real start then?

[konming]

Yeah, Jazzepi said he will not restart again under any circumstance.

[Janlm]

jomon has staled twice already now, and is about to stale for the third time in about 20 minuttes or so.

[Jazzepi]

Thanks for the notice.

Jazzepi

[Rytek]

/rant on.
All I can say is that my starting position is the worst I have ever seen. 3 provinces next to my capitol. Mountains blocking so that they are not continuous. I have 3 seperate ways in which I have to expand in requiring me to seperate my forces. 2 of those ways are already blocked by other players. And the 3rd way to be blocked soon enough. Terrible.
/rant off.

[konming]

In this map, you would be lucky to get 4 provinces next to your capital. Now if you expand north, there are very rich plains.

[WingedDog]

Maybe Jomon should be set to AI already.

[Jazzepi]

Maybe Jomon should be set to AI already.

Working on that. It's not as simple as putting a command into the webpage. I have to find a volunteer that isn't in the game.

Jazzepi

[WingedDog]

It's not that difficult, is it?

[Jazzepi]

It's not that difficult, is it?

Read.

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=Forgery&action=settoai

Jazzepi

[WingedDog]

Sorry, Jazzepi, didn't mean to be persistent.

P.S. I know the procedure.

[Baalz]

Bah, the cowards in other nations may despair and bend their knee to the first barbarians who appear at their gates but the Daimyo of Jomon have the mandate to rule the world. Let any who feel we are already defeated come wrest the Crown of Overmight from my head and become our first conquest for I stand upon the body of the false king DakaSha and challenge any to knock me down.

(Ps. I take it nobody objects if I play Jomon rather than switching them AI? Might not last long, but I'll give it a whirl)

[Jazzepi]

Bah, the cowards in other nations may despair and bend their knee to the first barbarians who appear at their gates but the Daimyo of Jomon have the mandate to rule the world. Let any who feel we are already defeated come wrest the Crown of Overmight from my head and become our first conquest for I stand upon the body of the false king DakaSha and challenge any to knock me down.

(Ps. I take it nobody objects if I play Jomon rather than switching them AI? Might not last long, but I'll give it a whirl)

Go right ahead, but they staled like 5 turns in a row D:

Jazzepi

[PsiSoldier]

On this turn the nation of Patala has agreed to a NAP with both the nations of Ulm and Pythium.

[Jazzepi]

Ulm is looking for some gear. We have gems to pay and are willing to pay well. If you have researched construction 2-4, give us a ring.

Jazzepi

[Dragar]

Pythium has way more gems and is happy to buy any of said items instead at a premium, as long as you don't sell them to Ulm!

[Lingchih]

I can put people on AI for you, if you need. I'm not in the game.

[WingedDog]

Too late, nation of Jomon has been taken by Baalz instead of putting to AI.

[fungalreason]

It looks like Gath has abandoned the game. He's missed 3 of the last 4 turns.

[WingedDog]

Indeed, I didn't notice. Seems like I refused mr.Lingchihs offer to put a player to AI too early.

[Jazzepi]

Considering the fact that Lingchin doesn't give out his e-mail, not even to llamaserver, and refuses to play in PBEM games because of that, he wouldn't be much help setting someone to AI.

The offer is appreciated though.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

I'm pretty sure Gath is out. Two stales in a row + three in the past four turns. I'm forcing hosting for this turn. I'll try to get him set to AI soon.

Jazzepi

[WingedDog]

And now Tien Chi is staling...

[Jazzepi]

I'll find someone to set TC to AI. For now I'll force host when it's only their turn left to submit.

Jazzepi

[Dragar]

Grrr... Gath was my first pick. Its terrible how many people are just leaving this game. There should be an honour board set up on the forums so people know who they are getting into a game with

[konming]

Gath lost its artifacts and probably most of its troops on an indy province.

[konming]

BTW, is Llamaserver having problems with its email server? I turned in my turn for several games and none registered so far.

[Unoptimized]

Huh. I sent in my turn last night, and the server let me know that I had sent in the wrong pretender file 6 times...

I'm at work now, and will not be back in time to re send my turn. Any chance of pushing back the time?

[fungalreason]

Utgard is looking to trade for nature gems. We can give either fire or water in return at a 1:1 ratio.

[Unoptimized]

The Inquisition is looking to trade for earth gems. I am able to trade with fire, astral, air, nature, and blood slaves.

[Fickle]

Tien Chi here. Sorry about stalling for the last week and a half, got hit by a hurricane and just got power back yesterday afternoon.

[Rytek]

Utgard handed me my arse. I am setting myself AI this turn. As a side note; I gave Utgard my remaining artifacts, gems and gold as his rightfull spoils of war.

[konming]

Two great battles this turn. Atlantis utterly defeated Marignon sieging force in its capital. Not only did Marignon lost almost all its troops, it also lost most of its minor items. One thing I have to wonder, where is orb of Atlanits? Tien Chi in its last stand in its capital, soundly defeated Man's invasion force. However outlook is still bleak for TC. Congradulation goes to Utgard who get two capital and two VPs. Remember, this is VP game and 8 is needed to win.

[konming]

Nation of Arcoscephale is also buying gems. We pay 25 gold for earth gems and 20 for all others. We are also willing to trade astral pearls for earth gems. Please PM me if you are interested.

[WingedDog]

The Watery Ones are in need of death gems. We have Fire and Nature gems to trade.

[WingedDog]

Ummm... Llamaserver doesn't exept my turn, so I'm asking for a delay 24H. I hope problem would be fixed in that time.

[fungalreason]

Did someone ask for another delay, or is the timer messed up?

[WingedDog]

The nation of Atlantis is still in need of Water and Death gems, we'll trade for Nature and Fire gems.

[fungalreason]

Utgard is looking for Earth, Astral, and Death gems. Can trade nature, fire, water, or air.

[konming]

Arco is still buying gems. We still offer 20/gem and 25 for earth gem. Further, we have fire/air/astral gems for trade, we need earth gems. :)

[konming]

Four nations now have two capitals each.

Utgard defeated Pan and is right next to Ulm's capital, so it will get three pretty quickly.

Arco defeated Gath.

Jomon, despite five stales early on, defeated Patala and is now waging war on Mictlan.

Man defeated TC.

Judging from the score graph, the next victim might be Abysia or Ulm. Pythium, Marignon and Mictlan are also in various level of danger.

[Dragar]

Note that Ulm recently went AI after Pythium turned the tide in their war. Utgard has just come in and is mopping up Ulm cheaply

[WingedDog]

2konming
Thank you for Forgery News Digest Weekly. :D

[fungalreason]

Ugh, this turn was terrible. Vampire invasion cutting off my retreat in a battle where I had no losses..... in the one province that still has misfortune in it with luck 3 scales.

[konming]

It is only 6 mages and 3 commanders...

[konming]

On the bright side, at least you got two artifacts.

[fungalreason]

Shhh ;)

[WingedDog]

Guys, I need a 12H delay. I've sent PM to Jazzepi, but not sure if he is admin, so if he isn't - I hope present admin would read my request. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the inconvenience.

[llamabeast]

I've just done the postponement (WingedDog PMed me and said he urgently needed it done - I hope I haven't trodden on the admin's toes).

[Jazzepi]

Woops. Put in another 12 hour delay.

Oh well :D

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

Awesome. Ry'leh just overcast my BoT for a stupid gem producing global.

Way to go.

Jazzepi

[tgbob]

Thems fightin' words!

[Dragar]

??? there is only one global up..

[WingedDog]

Ofcource it is. Not speaking there's no Ry'leh in this game and Jazzepi's nation (Ulm) is set to AI, so the conclusion is - Jazzepi has posted in the wrong topic.

By the way thanks to Jazzepi and llama for setting the delay.

[konming]

Nation of Arco is buying blood slaves. PM me to quote your price. We can certainly work something out. :)

We are also buying gems. You can sell any gems to us. While gems are valuable, in war, you also need troops, mages and castles.

Last but not least, we trade for death and earth gems. We can pay astral or fire.

[Janlm]

Awesome. Ry'leh just overcast my BoT for a stupid gem producing global.

Way to go.

Jazzepi

heh wrong thread jazzepi, but i'm sorry that was definitly not my intention :)

[Jazzepi]

Putting hosting on 48 hours. Post in the thread if you have any objection.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

I'm going to germany soon. I'd like someone else to take over the admining of this game.

Jazzepi

[konming]

I can take over admin if no one objects.

[WingedDog]

Yes, I think konming is the best choise for administrator position.

[Jazzepi]

I can take over admin if no one objects.

Sounds fine. I'll pm you the password.

Jazzepi

[konming]

OK, when Jazzepi pm me the password, I will be the new admin.

[konming]

OK I have taken over. My thank goes to Jazzepi who was a wonderful admin and salvaged the game.

Please PM me for any extension request and comments.

Cheers.

[tgbob]

Request! Kill me already.

[WingedDog]

Does anybody know why Unoptimised is missing? He contacted anyone?

[konming]

Sorry guys, real life crunch came and I have to withdraw from all games I am in. If a replacement cannot be found, please set me to AI. Thanks and sorry for the trouble I caused.

On a side note, Baalz violated NAP and did a surprise attack. You should treat his words, well, as nothing more than words, I guess.

Also please someone take over the admin duty. I really appreciate it.

[WingedDog]

2 konming
I have an information you've canceled a NAP with him few turns ago, is it wrong?
Anyway, send the administrator's password to someone before leaving. I could have it, if nobody minds, and then try to find a sub for you.

[konming]

2 konming
I have an information you've canceled a NAP with him few turns ago, is it wrong?
Anyway, send the administrator's password to someone before leaving. I could have it, if nobody minds, and then try to find a sub for you.

I threatened to cancel NAP if he did not stop attack Marignon. And he replied he would comply. And he did retreat the next turn.

The exact wording is "I urge you to reconsider your aggression. Otherwise, this is the advance notice required by our NAP agreement." So I guess it is open to interpretion.

[WingedDog]

Alright I have taken over administrator's duties, and start looking for konming's sub immediately. PM me all requests of delay or any problems considering the game. For now I hold hosting for some time to figure out if it is possible to find a sub.

[Zeldor]

Ok, time to do some cleaning here. Some aggressive neighbours trying to get their chance at the change of rulership in Arco will be really disappointed.

P.S. I didn't follow the thread, but it looks like Jomon breached the NAP without canceling it. Does that game have some other rules? I always though that NAPs work, until the very late game. I cannot get any reply from Jomon player...

[WingedDog]

No NAP rules here. Besides, in my correspondance with Baaz he mentioned about 4 turns ago Arco has cancelled their NAP.

[Baalz]

FWIW, I never violate NAPs. Here's the full message you sent me:

"Mighty Lord of Jomon:

I regret to announce that our NAP now comes to an end. Your attack on my ally, the honorable Marignon, forces me to end our NAP. I urge you to reconsider your aggression. Otherwise, this is the advance notice required by our NAP agreement. And current turn number is 45."

You declared war on me and we never renegotiated a new NAP (note: I wouldn't have agreed to one after you bullying me like that). The fact that I pulled out of Marignon has no bearing on the fact that you quite clearly were done observing the spirit of the A in NAP.

Ps. I'm subbing for Jomon, so it's me you want to talk to Zeldor.

[Zeldor]

Oh, crap :P Arco is doomed :) I just wanted to get things clear, as from konming's post [and lack of prepartions for the attack] suggested that Jomon breached the NAP.

[Unoptimized]

Hey guys, sorry about the short notice, but I wound up doing early thanksgiving, so I have been on the road all day. If I could get a 24h extension, it would be much appreciated

[WingedDog]

2 Unoptimized
You've posted too late for me to read this message. So the turn is already hosted, sorry.

2 All
If you ever need postponing turn, I would gladly help you, but please, post your message in advance, and consider the time difference.
I have changed the hosting interval to 72 hours for this week, if you need a further delay - PM me.

[Zeldor]

Huh, I start to understand why konming wanted out.

I'd like to inform that Man has breached the NAP - attacked 1 turn after sending NAP3 cancellation notice.

I will make sure he is banned from all games I host. I will also be so evil to announce his treacherous behaviour in every game he joins. It is closed MP community, if he thinks that just breaching a NAP like that will be tolerated, he is mistaken. And I really have no idea what he wanted to acchieve, like that 2 turns would save him?

[WingedDog]

Zeldor
Diplomacy rules, breaking NAPs, treitorous persons list were discussed a lot of times.
Read this: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=636490&postcount=90
And this: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=636835&postcount=145

Then read the sticky about cerating games:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=636944&postcount=1

Specificly:
Now, this first post needs to include all the details of the game:
- Age
- Map (if you know yet)
- How often you want the turns to go**
- Number of players (if you have a firm idea)
- Mods (if any)***
- Non-standard settings (graphs off? research on difficult? there are lots and lots of interesting possibilities for different games)
- Victory conditions (if any)
- Diplomacy policy (are treaties considered unbreakable, or is this a Machiavellian world?)
- Which race you want to play (you get first choice)!


Then read first post with rules on this game.

So Man has discredited himself, but he broke no inhouse rules, since no NAP policy is mentioned.

[Zeldor]

Exactly. And that's what sticks in online community, especially small one. I still cannot understand why he'd sent a 3-turn notice and attack after 1 turn. Changes almost nothing in that game, but spoil his diplomacy in all future games.

[WingedDog]

Zeldor
There are many people who do not care much for player's reputation.

[Zeldor]

I could use 24h more for that turn. And maybe we should switch to 72h?

[WingedDog]

More 24 hours? You mean until Thursday?

[Zeldor]

Oh, I was sure it is hosting tomorrow morning. So no need for delay :)

[Juffos]

Hey Zeldor

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/Juffomies/internettoughguy.jpg

I gave a fair declarement of cancelling the non-aggression pact to your predecessor, but you chose to mind hunt my people down. My Pretender has decided that to be a breach of the NAP and thus you the original betrayer.

You are leading in research and you have two gem-producing globals up and at least you led in provinces. You thought all other players would just stand idle while you are racing towards victory? You had this coming.

You also seem to consider having scouts in another player's lands as breaching a NAP. Aren't you a bit too strict here, mm?

Don't you think you're a bit overreacting to the situation, you are the leading player in the game, shouldn't you be able to remove treacherous pretenders without forum flames?

All this we both are going through is completely pointless.

[Zeldor]

Juffos:

You sent a NAP3 warning. You attacked after 1 turn. And the only possible situation when someone of yours could be mind hunted would be if he was in my lands [as I was aiming mind hunts at Jomon raiders]. So you are simply unhonourable person that breaks treaties. So yes, I will keep my word. I just hate people that break treaties for no reason. And yes, I will get so low to remind about your behaviour in every game you join.

You did a mistake, breached a NAP without any reason. You may say sorry, pay reparations, get few turns of peace and we fight fairly after that. Otherwise you know what awaits you. Your choice.

[fungalreason]

Wow, get a grip....

Arco is clearly dominating. They have most of the artifacts, elemental royalty, gem income, and resarch DOUBLE that of the next player. If you think a NAP at that point has any meaning, you're probably playing the wrong game. I don't know about you, but I expect anyone that builds up such a lead will have to defend it at some point, not NAP their way to a victory. It's not like Man had any other options since Arco completely boxed them in the corner, so I don't see why you're acting as if this attack is unexpected.

Regardless, threats about posting in other game threads is ridiculous. In fact I'd be less likely to deal with YOU rather than Juffo should you choose to pursue that route.

[Zeldor]

fungalreason:

I have nothing against him attacking me [after all, he has not many other choices and Arco is leading]. The only problem is that he said the he cancels NAP3 and attacked turn after. If he attacked straight, without saying anything, I'd be OK with that. If he waited 3 turns it would be fine too.

For me it looks like he had an intention to attack after 1 turn while sending 3-turn notice. Things like that are not really liked in that MP community.

P.S. I don't give Arco many chances to survive that war. Previous player did a great job at getting to that power, but then neglected diplomatic relations and made almost no preparations for coming wars.

[WingedDog]

I have postponed hosting for 8 hours.

[Zeldor]

Huh, I have really bad luck to nasty bugs recently. Lost one SC in other game in strange circumstances and now a bug with not moving armies hit me and costed me a fort.

[fungalreason]

It looks like there's a replay bug at "Tenen" as well. My scout sees Jomon win it and kill the golem. However he's still alive and you maintain control of the province.

[Zeldor]

Are you sure? On my replay he easily wins quite fast and lost only 1 or 2 HP total.

[fungalreason]

Yeah the second wave of cavalry comes in and several big lance hits take him out. Very strange.

[WingedDog]

My replay shows the same as fungalreason's. It's the common combat viewer bug.

[fungalreason]

It looks like for whatever reason, my version of the combat isn't factoring in the protection of the golem. Example from the debug: samurai hits with lance, does 24 damage, and the golem takes the entire 24. Perhaps this is the cause of the replay bug?

26313 striking with weapon Lance. att21 def19
hitloc Samurai Cavalry strikes Golem wl4 diff-1 -> 3
hitunit 26313 492 dmg24 spec-2011168768 ba3
damage 24 on Golem, spec0x88200000 ba3
hitunit 492 26313 dmg4 spec135296 ba1
spec_mr pen 11 mr 10 (unr 492 vic 26313 dmg 66 eff 4)
resisted

[Zeldor]

Crap, bad habits from Kingmaker. I got used to quickhost turned off and I submitted only partial turn.

But at least Man is paying the price for breaching the NAP and attacking like a coward. I really liked that battle :)

[WingedDog]

Damn! ArcoTV is never boring! :D

[Zeldor]

What did you watch this time? :)

[WingedDog]

What did you watch this time? :)

Storm of the fortress of Ambersand ofcourse! :D