Standards - MA Game (running)

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm in need of a new middle age game and since I can't find one I figured I'd start one. My hope is to use the llamaserver. Visit the llamabeast FAQ (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160&highlight=531120) on how to make a pretender and join a game using the llamaserver. The game is open to all experience levels. Further details listed below:

Age: middle
Mods: Worthy Heros 1.8 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36670&highlight=Turin)
Map: Latest Version (3.1) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6588&stc=1&d=1218931196)
Players: 12

Renaming: allowed
All Other Settings: default

Nation/Player Update:
Abyssia / hoo (anticipatient)
Arcoscephale / fungalreason (nozshand) :hurt:
Ashod / Calahan
Bandar Log / konming
Caelum / JimMorrison
Mictlan / AreaOfEffect
Man / Fakeymcfake
Pangaea / PsiSoldier :hurt:
Pythium / chrispedersen :hurt:
Ry'leh / Jazzepi
Ulm / Deadnature
Vanheim / 46852

:hurt:: Eliminated

[46852]

Hey,

I'll sign up for this game. This will be my first MP game of Dom3, so excuse me for my noobness :)

If possible, I'd like to just reserve a spot in the game and decide my nation after a while? I can ofcourse pick a nation immediately if you want, but I'd like to get familiar with the MA nations before I make my pick...


PS. I vote for Hall of Fame setting of 15 :)

[Jazzepi]

I'd like to play, but I've decided at this point that I'm pretty sensitive to map choice. I'm tired of playing on maps with an infinite number of choke points, and very little room for maneuvering.

I would recommend that you simply decide on the number of people you want to play with, and try to fill it from there.

All of that said, I'm interested in playing with the caveat that I /may/ pull out once the map has been selected.

If you're okay with that, I'd like to play EA Ry'leh.

Jazzepi

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm in, MA Man preferably.

[konming]

This is a MA game. If Jazzepi indeed wanted to pick EA R'lyeh, I will pick MA R'lyeh. :)

[nozshand]

im in, ma acro

[Calahan]

Count me in please. I'll take Ashdod.

My preferences for what it's worth :-)

Hall of Fame 10 if 10 players or less, HoF 15 if 11 or more players.

Victory by consent (Have come to the conclusion capital VP's aren't the best since all it does is flag up the capitals for the early rushers. Plus if a nation is powerful enough to have captured 60+% of the capitals anyway, there's not going to be many left who'll disagree if they claim an overall victory at that stage)

Graphs on.

Plus I agree with 'Jazzepi' in that I think some maps are getting used too often and are therefore losing their appeal big time, Cradle of Dominion is one for me. I'd be happy with Glory of the Gods(Mp), Random (say average of 15provinces each) or the Alexander map is an interesting one, although can get a little crowded on land if there are too many nations.

[46852]

Oh bollox, Ashdod and Man taken already, my top 2... I'll have to get familiar with more nations then :)

[46852]

I'll grab Vanheim then, have to get busy testing them in SP!

[Jazzepi]

This is a MA game. If Jazzepi indeed wanted to pick EA R'lyeh, I will pick MA R'lyeh. :)

Haha, very funny.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

May I suggest looking here (http://www.llamaserver.net/mapModBrowser.cgi) for an interesting map.

[AreaOfEffect]

My intention was to build a random map. I too am tired of the same old maps and I'll be sure to remove the abundance of choke points. Making mountains passable will surely do this. It also allows me to adjust the water provinces accordingly. The map will have 18 provinces per player. I guarantee you'll be happy with the map Jazzepi. If your not, then I'll make a new one.

For the sake of being specific, I'll set the number of players to 10. This leaves us only 4 more slots to fill. 3 if konming really want to play.

Players: 6/10

Nation and Players:
Arcoscephale / nozshand
Ashod / Calahan
Mictlan / AreaOfEffect
Man / Fakeymcfake
Ry'leh / Jaxxepi
Vanheim / 46852

Edit: Thanks for the link llamabeast, though I was already aware of those. Once I know how many water nations there are I might consider looking those over again rather then generating a bunch of maps. Though I'm pretty set on a custom map for this game, unless the players aren't of course.

[Deadnature]

Sign me up for Ulm if we're playing MA...

[Dedas]

Marignon please.

[chrispedersen]

Marignon please.

Huh. I don't really know any other MA nations well.
As there is only one more spot can I be in with either
Pan/Arc/Mict?

[konming]

Since R'lyeh is taken, I will get my pawns on Bandar Log. :)

[AreaOfEffect]

nozshand has already asked for Arcoscephale and I've laid claim to Mictlan. Pangaea is open however. A very good faction in middle age in my opinion. Free spawn (w/ turmoil), some carrion dead, earthquake mages, high defense sacreds, thugable commanders, blood magic, and so on and so forth. I'll mark you down as Pangaea for now.

Also, we still have one slot left open after you. I think I'll start making a map for only one water faction and cross my fingers.

Players: 10/10

Nation and Players:
Arcoscephale / nozshand
Ashod / Calahan
Bandar Log / konming
Mictlan / AreaOfEffect
Man / Fakeymcfake
Marignon / Dedas
Pangaea / chrispedersen
Ry'leh / Jaxxepi
Ulm / Deadnature
Vanheim / 46852

Edit: Nevermind the open slot business. Glad to see you join us Kon. I'll get to work on that map and set up a game so people can start submitting pretenders.

[AreaOfEffect]

I must have gone through about 20-30 maps until I was happy. Half way through I remembered there is a new upload limit and almost chopped up the zip file into small pieces, but instead I made a MediaFire account. A much better call.

The map has almost no choke points and allows just about everyone access to mountains, forest, and ocean sites, which can be important. I made sure Ry'leh would start in the slightly larger ocean by making the other one a no start site zone.

Here is the link to the map files: Standards.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?oqeknwyyogp)

Edit: Pardon me if the site is annoying.

[AreaOfEffect]

The game page (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Standards) has been started on the llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/index.cgi). I'm currently having issues with uploading the image map file onto the server. I'll eventually resolve the issue or distribute another map. Until then you can upload your pretenders.

[JimMorrison]

Bugger. I was going to post an interest in playing Caelum..... Because of the new forum anti-idle, I don't see all the new threads. :(

But it looks like I am too late to beg for mercy, so have fun for now..... cause I'll be coming for the winner! :o

[anticipatient]

I'm with Jim Morrison. :) If you could go to the limit of 12 that you originally mentioned, I'd love to join you in this game. If you decide to include me, I would like to try Abyssia.

Eriu, c'tis, agartha, t'ien ch'i and pythium would also be fine, if you are concerned about balance issues or something.

[AreaOfEffect]

Well I do love beating astral gems out of Jim and it does give me a reason to make a new map and see if that will upload or not. Consider yourselves in the game pending some form of objection.

Players: 12/10

Nation and Players:
Abyssia / anticipatient
Arcoscephale / nozshand
Ashod / Calahan
Bandar Log / konming
Caelum / JimMorrison
Mictlan / AreaOfEffect
Man / Fakeymcfake
Marignon / Dedas
Pangaea / chrispedersen
Ry'leh / Jaxxepi
Ulm / Deadnature
Vanheim / 46852

P.S.: Does anticipatient know some about Abyssia that I don't. I'm personally more worried about Ry'leh and their lack of underwater competition.

[JimMorrison]

Didn't you know? MA Abysia now gets "Giantbreds"! Size 5, 63hp giants with Heat 6 aura. O.O

Oh the horror.....

Wait, did I mention they come with Fear+5, and have 4 arms?? :rolleyes:

[PsiSoldier]

If there is still room, I'll join with Either Shinuyama, C'tis or Machaka. Ive never played with Shin or Machaka and never Middle C'tis but any of those look ok to me. If you let me join you can pick whichever race for me.

[AreaOfEffect]

Sorry PsiSoldier, 12 is the limit for real. Also, I've not only painstaking created a new map I'm pleased with but I managed to upload it successfully. Speaking of which, get the new map file from the annoying download site (http://www.mediafire.com/?oqeknwyyogp).

[konming]

Now we have 12 players. Should the map be 18*12=216 provinces?

[chrispedersen]

May I change to Pythium, por favor.

[46852]

Brr... new forums have screwed up all the old links. Remember to update your sig links everyone. Took a while to find Llama's FAQ thread :)

[Jazzepi]

P.S.: Does anticipatient know some about Abyssia that I don't. I'm personally more worried about Ry'leh and their lack of underwater competition.

Oh man, the ocean is so small. It's basically right on the verge of a perfect size for a single water nation. If we had another, it'd be far too small.

The thing to remember about water nations is that they tend to be much weaker on land than a normal land-born nation. R'yleh also lacks real archers (no the psi-blasters don't count), and they get mauled early on by nations with access to good archers, which are plentiful in indy provinces with the right pop type.

Jazzepi

[konming]

Oh man, the ocean is so small. It's basically right on the verge of a perfect size for a single water nation. If we had another, it'd be far too small.

The thing to remember about water nations is that they tend to be much weaker on land than a normal land-born nation. R'yleh also lacks real archers (no the psi-blasters don't count), and they get mauled early on by nations with access to good archers, which are plentiful in indy provinces with the right pop type.

Jazzepi

But R'lyeh also gets those indy archers. :doh:

[Jazzepi]

But R'lyeh also gets those indy archers. :doh:

You're missing the point.

R'yleh's main troops get chewed up by the archers. There's nothing that comes out of their onland or offland citadels that carries a shield, or has really high protection, besides the meteroite guard, but it's better to just try to get a foot hold on land and build some heavy infantry. And even high protection, unless it's ridiculous Ulm levels, doesn't really protect you as well as having a shield and medium level armor.

Also, on this map, there's far fewer water territories to expand into then a given land nation has if you divide the number of land provinces / # of land players. Additionally, the land provinces are almost always in all directions, meaning you can expand in a concentric circle. On this map, the water nation has to basically expand in a straight line, which is awful because you have to do a lot of troop-time wasting back tracking.

Jazzepi

[JimMorrison]

R'yleh's main troops get chewed up by the archers. There's nothing that comes out of their onland or offland citadels that carries a shield

Not true, the little green Hybrid Troopers have a shield. And they're only 5 resources with 13 HP and two attacks. I avoided them for a long time, but that second attack makes them quite effective even against heavier troops - throw around some Body Ethereal or Luck buffing, and you've got a line that can shrug off a whole lot of arrows. ;)

[Jazzepi]

Protection 5? :(

I don't think that makes them effective arrow catchers.

My point was that R'yleh lacks a really good means of "hey look at me, I'm your front line of shielded troops, we catch arrows".

Jazzepi

[JimMorrison]

Protection 5? :(

I don't think that makes them effective arrow catchers.

My point was that R'yleh lacks a really good means of "hey look at me, I'm your front line of shielded troops, we catch arrows".

Jazzepi

< shrug > Doesn't a 4 defense shield protect them from something like 60% of arrows anyways? If you are having purple Starspawns, or Starchildren buffing them, they'll be plenty survivable to most ranged troops, not to mention what they do to infantry.

Believe me, I was skeptical of their usefulness as well, until I decided to build a ton of them to replace my Meteorite Guards I had lost, and couldn't readily replenish. They're quite nice units. Not elite, just quite nice. ;)

[Jazzepi]

I might have to try that out, then ;)

Jazzepi

[Dedas]

When do we start?

[Calahan]

AoE / All

I've been running a few test games on the map provided, and some of the start locations seem a bit un-balanced to me.

Good start locations include-

Land (120) - 5xMountains 1xWaste = Will have insanely good capital resources.
Land (128) - 3xNormal 2xMountains 1xForest 1xFarmland = Good all round, as 7 is a lot of bordering provinces for a start location.
Land (171) - 5xMountains = Will have insanely good capital resources.
Land (31) - 2xFarmland 2xNormal 2xMountain 1xSwamp 1xWaste = Good all round, and 8 is a crazy number of bordering provinces for a start location.
Land (148) - 3xFarmland 3xNormal = Should mean a huge amount on income very quickly.
Land (64) - 4xNormal 4xMountain = Good all round, and 8 is a crazy number of bordering provinces for a start location.
Land (100) - 5xNormal 1xFarmland 1xForest = Good all round, as 7 is a lot of bordering provinces for a start location.


Bad start locations-

Land (103) - 2xWater 1xFarmland 1xSwamp 1xNormal = Will have awful capital resources, and 3 bordering provinces is bare minimum for start location.
Land (72) - 2xNormal 1xFarmland 1xWater = Will have bad capital resources, and 3 bordering provinces is bare minimum for start location.
Land (45) - 3xNormal 2xWater = Will have bad capital resources, and 3 bordering provinces is bare minimum for start location.
Land (18) - 2xForest 1xSwamp 1xWater = Will have poor capital resources, and very poor income. Plus 3 bordering provinces is bare minimum for start location, and made worse by one being a swamp.
Land (176) - 2xMountain 1xFarmland = Any land start location that only has 3 bordering provinces is mostly always bad.


I'm not against Good or Bad starting locations in principal, but I think it will be too unbalancing if one nation starts in a really great location, while another nation starts in a really bad one. (18) and (103) being particularly bad in my opinion. These are also just a few examples which I seen, there way well be more of both.

Not sure if this is all just part of the map, and WaD, or if the fixed start locations aren't working or something (I have no experience with map making/editing).

What do others think? If this is a problem then best get it sorted before the game starts rather than having to go through several re-starts trying to make everyone happy.

[Jazzepi]

Whoa. 8 connected provinces? :9 That's a bit much.

Jazzepi

[46852]

Having tested a few games with the map, I agree with Calahan (no, he's not pointing a .44 at my head and forcing me to write this).

Some of the starting locations I received seemed really advantageous, while some were below average and presented some strategic difficulties at the same time.

I don't mind random maps, but fixed (at least on some level) starting locations are a must on them when playing MP.


PS. Looking at the start I just created, fixed locations would fix the possibility of crowded corners of the map etc. In this start, there's like 7 nations out of 12 packed in the southwest quarter of the map, and I have 3 nations' capitals 3 provinces away from my capital :)

[AreaOfEffect]

Now we have 12 players. Should the map be 18*12=216 provinces?

The good news is that you all have the wrong map. I apparently have to delete the map I originally made in order to put up a file with the same name. The new map I made is indeed 216 provinces. I've yet to see if it carries the same good start / bad start location problem. Something easily fixed by adjusting start locations on llamabeasts version I assume. Thank you Calahan for double checking the map. The bad news is that the water provinces didn't come out exactly as I had hoped.

Try downloading the new map. (http://www.mediafire.com/?jswvbzko3gq)

Also, I don't see a problem with you being Pythium chris. Now off to work, which I'm late for.

[Calahan]

Thanks for the new map AoE. Just ran two quick tests and there doesn't appear to be as many unbalancing starts as the previous map.

Also, been having my first ever play around with Dominions in-built map editor, and it appears to be fairly straight-forward to use. So might have a bash at editing the map a bit (just be for my own amusement) to see if balancing it out is something I can actually do or not.

[46852]

Thanks for the new map AoE. Just ran two quick tests and there doesn't appear to be as many unbalancing starts as the previous map.


Actually there's even more unbalancing spots than in the previous, unfortunately. Got an 8-neighbour province start with 4 farmlands on my 2nd test start. And if the start locations aren't controlled at all, there's a spot with 9 neighbouring provinces too :X

Well, to be honest, I don't mind the unfair start locations, I just want the game started already :)

[Calahan]

All

I've done an edited version of the 'Standards' map AoE provided (the one with 216 provinces) which I hope solves a lot of the balancing issues regarding start locations. I've also spaced out the start locations as best I can so that there's no bunching, or huge areas where nobody is anywhere near.

- The White X's indicate which provinces have the 'No Start' tag.
- The coloured groups of numbers indicate the possible choice of provinces where a nation may start. I've not opted for absolutely fixed start locations, as this would be the same as highlighting the capitals via VP's (which I'm not a fan of). It's always good to have a bit of mystery :-)
- With only one exception (marked with a *) each starting locations has between 4-5 bordering provinces. Where a province has more than 5 bordering provinces, one or more of them will be swamps or wastelands, which don't really add much value. Of course this doesn't apply to the water nation.
- I've connected the two groups of water provinces on the right hand side of the map (indicated with arrows). I think this is only fair to the lone water nation, as otherwise they would be limited to about 5 water provinces before having to fight it out on land, which would be a tough ask with such a small province base.

I've run about half a dozen test games, and the nations were spread out as intended each time. But I may have missed a province out with an intended 'No Start' tag, so if a fresh pair of eyes spots one, then please don't be silent :-)


Let me know what you all think. AoE is still the boss of this game though, so if he'd rather go with his map as is, or with any editing he's done, then that cool with me all round :-)

Have included a jpeg to highlight the changes, and if people like it, I will sort out either uploading the map myself, or sending it to AoE for him to upload.

(Edit) Ok, that is one poor quality attachment. All hail the new forum and its tiny file size limits :-) Will have to find another way to show off my fancy art work :-)

[JimMorrison]

Actually, I can see what's going on in that picture just fine.


I was wondering though, is the .rgb file for this map compressed or something? It's all blurry..... Kind of makes my eyes feel funny, actually. :o

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm actually quite pleased you went through all that work. I'll pm you my email address and gladly accept your copy of the map. As for the attachment, it really isn't that bad once you click on it.

I think there is more we can do for Ry'leh though. No matter where he starts I see he'll have to fight a land nation for a piece of soil. Or maybe I'm just reading the image file wrong. I'll test it out once I get your copy.

Agreed 46852, I'm anxious to get playing as well. Yet, if a an extra day of work on a map can squeeze out a fairer game and grant more enjoyment to all parties involved, then I say it is well worth the wait. Consider that a game usually goes on for months.

Edit: Considering the progress we're making it seems the map issue will be resolved well before all pretenders are sent in. My feeling at this point is that submissions to the llamaserver will be the bottle neck here.

[Jazzepi]

Obviously I have a vested interest in the ocean starting spots, since I'm playing R'yleh, so take this for what you will, but this map seems even worse for the singleton water nation then the last one did.

Blargh.

Jazzepi

[Calahan]

Sent you the zipped map file AoE, and included the 'high quality' image with it that the forum wouldn't let me display (although agree the thumbnail is (just about) viewable)

I had a good think about how to help R'yleh out while editing the map, but I struggled to come up with any more answers than I did to be honest.

I thought about leaving a free area of land (all land nations 3-4 provinces away) near a more-or-less fixed start location for them so that they could get a quick foothold on land. But the problem with that was that the nations on land became very squashed indeed, plus I couldn't see how that would stop a land nation just bullying R'yleh back into the sea. Or the reverse, and R'yleh became too powerful too quickly due to having control of all the water, and loads of land, while everyone else was slugging it out.

Thought about linking the water provinces on the right with the water provinces on the left (a kind of wraparound affect for the water provinces only) but that made things look a bit odd and very ugly. Plus again I thought it made R'yleh too powerful, as they'd get 20 provinces without a challenge while everyone else was earning theirs the hard way.

So not sure what else to suggest. R'yleh start with knowing that as the only water nation, they are safe from attack for the first few years, so that's one advantage they have over everyone else. Only other option I can see using the map editor tools is to give them provinces with extra magic sites. But again that could be giving them too much. Using sledgehammers to crack nuts and all that :-)

[AreaOfEffect]

Don't worry Calahan, as soon as Jazzipi made his post I gave into the feeling I had about the map ever since I thought about the water situation. So, I locked myself in and made another map... again. I really didn't want to take your hard work and scrape it, but there really was no choice. Thank you so much for what you have done.

In the newest map, the water situation has improved to being at least as good as the first map, if hopefully not better. The problem is that I have so many other considerations and I'm at the mercy of a random number generator. I've already gone through it to eliminate a host of provinces as start locations. The details are as such:

-All starting locations on land have either 5 or 6 province on the border. No more, no less.
-All starting locations on land with 6 provinces have either a wasteland or swamp on its border.
-All starting locations on land with 5 provinces have no wastelands or swamps on their border.
-All starting location in the water have 4 to 5 water provinces on the border. (This excludes land provinces)
-There are no starting location that border the larger body of water.
-The larger body of water is 16 provinces large. Though still a bit slim.
-Choke points (as requested) are to a minimum.
-The remaining start locations are reasonable well distributed, though I have yet to zone it to ensure even spacing between nations. If it needs it, I'll do it.

My only issue is that I can't seem to stop the map generator from creating large clumps of mountains and large circular bodies of water that don't cut off huge sections of land or make a ton of choke points. Anyhow, enough ranting, here it is:

Link to standards_version 3.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?hqny2qdrvyg)

Edit: Testing shows that some zoning will have to be done. Not a big deal as I only need to eliminate sites until I have 12 small clusters. I have a visual record of which sites are start locations, so it won't be too hard. I'm pretty sure it's a change you won't need to download as I can just make it on the map I'll upload to the llamaserver.

[JimMorrison]

As for the attachment, it really isn't that bad once you click on it.


Ummm, if that was response to me on the blurry comment..... I didn't click on it, I was playing on it. In-game, it was very blurry. :p I just got the new version, let me check it and see..... ;)


Okay! I see what it is, it's just because the pixel count is so low, that zooming to my normal play "height", stretches and blurs the graphics. :p

Ummmm. First test on the map, my starting province is off the top edge of the map. O.o

[JimMorrison]

Oh I see what's going on. You've inadvertently attached the old image file with the new .map file. I hope you didn't lose the other. :o And yes I confirmed this by deleting the files, and unpacking from the .rar again, still bad. 8(

[AreaOfEffect]

This best not be a joke. I don't know what the problem is because I've just downloaded the file myself and placed them into my maps folder. I have the right image file when I start up a new game or go to edit it.

I checked the modified date of the file in the zip archive and it is for today. Please double check again by redownloading the zip please. I'm sorry it it isn't working.

[JimMorrison]

This best not be a joke. I don't know what the problem is because I've just downloaded the file myself and placed them into my maps folder. I have the right image file when I start up a new game or go to edit it.

I checked the modified date of the file in the zip archive and it is for today. Please double check again by redownloading the zip please. I'm sorry it it isn't working.


Well the title is "version 3", and none of the others were called version 3, were they? :P The preview of the map in the game creator shows a big slab of the woodgrain texture background at the top of the map, and it's the map from the previous version, but it's a different .map now, that's for sure. Let me delete again, delete the saved game, and reboot Dom3 entirely.....


Ahhhh, okay. It was just some sort of bizarre caching error I guess? Whatever was causing it, it's fixed now. Thanks! <3

[AreaOfEffect]

Ahhhh, okay. It was just some sort of bizarre caching error I guess? Whatever was causing it, it's fixed now. Thanks! <3

Praise Thor. I;m glad that worked itself out cause I need to go to bed and not have an more map issues at the moment.

[46852]

Praise Thor. I;m glad that worked itself out cause I need to go to bed and not have an more map issues at the moment.

Hey! You're praising in my God's name there! Stick to your Acuecucyoticihuatis, Acolnahuacatls and whatever, or else...


:)

[AreaOfEffect]

Original post updated. Glad to see that ability has been turn on.

[konming]

Two questions:

1. The game page shows the map is "Random map: Standards". In create game page, "Random map: Standards" shows the old 216 province map.

2. I tried a game with version 3 map, and capitals are quite unevenly distributed. Some capitals are 3 hexes away, where some cannot see enemy capitals in hexes.

[AreaOfEffect]

Yes, I'm aware of this. I've put off updating the map on the llamaserver. The new map also needs to be trimmed so that capitols are more evenly spaced. I'll post a version 3.1, but any 3.x version should do as the llamaserver will choose the starting locations from the map I give it. I suppose I should get on that.

My biggest concern right now is getting pretenders in though. Not much more I can do about that though.

[AreaOfEffect]

Map updated. Distribution of capitols should now be fixed. I'm asking llamabeast to remove the old map because it shares the same name as then new.

[anticipatient]

Oh god, I'm kind of confused with what map we are using. I guess I'll figure it out by trial and error once I get the first turn :D

[llamabeast]

Previous map removed. Though, of course, if I hadn't been around you could just have called it Standards2 or something.

[46852]

Is the most recent map downloadable somewhere yet AoE? I submitted my pretty pretender a bit late, but it seems there's 2 still missing.

[AreaOfEffect]

Latest map will, from now on, always be downloadable from the original post. When in doubt, go to the link posted there. Thanks for your submissions.

Also, thank you llamabeast, for everything.

[JimMorrison]

Also, thank you llamabeast, for everything.


I always add that part at the end of my nightly prayers. :p

[46852]

When do we start?

Not before you submit your pretender ;)

[chrispedersen]

Hey who we waiting on! If they don't get a moving - lets kick em prompt em nudge, Look for replacements....

Ermor.. chomping at the bit..

[Calahan]

Chris, thought you were down to play as Pythium. If so, what's all this Ermor chomping about? :-)

btw, think it's Dedas that we're waiting on.

[46852]

Being a MP noob and a first-timer, I have to ask if there's any common house rules concerning pacts between players, NAPs, trades etc. and how they are handled? And if there's any unwritten rules that might not be that obvious for a MP beginner?

[Jazzepi]

Being a MP noob and a first-timer, I have to ask if there's any common house rules concerning pacts between players, NAPs, trades etc. and how they are handled? And if there's any unwritten rules that might not be that obvious for a MP beginner?

Unless a game specifies otherwise, NAPs are just pieces of paper. Obeying them is up to your integrity. Breaking them can make it harder to make deals in the future, etc. etc.

The general terms of NAPs are that they come with a three turn warning before either side can attack. So that if you tell someone "I'm cancelling our 3 turn NAP" on turn 37, you can't give attack orders until turn 40. Some people will play wishy washy with this, and try to squeeze, or remove, an extra turn from it by sending notification at odd times.

Also, most NAPs are put into place indefinitely. That is, the NAPs are permanently there unless one side breaks it. There are variations where people will sign an NAP for 10 turns, that has a 3 turn warning, but expires unless renewed after the ten turns. It's really up to both parties to decide on what sort of terms.

That's pretty much it. Most players use the forum's PM system to communicate for games. Make sure to indicate what game you're in, as some people are in multiples. There are a minority of players who never look at their PMs, and you'll have to use the in game system to contact them.

If you're going to do trading, some people will only sell you items for a markup, and others will trade you a 5 gem item for 5 gems that they need. It really just depends. If they have dwarven hammers, or some sort of forge bonus, they'll make a profit off the even trade. Otherwise they're just looking to get different gems.

Jazzepi

[46852]

OK, thanks for the reply, Jazzepi!

I'll be keeping an eye on my pm-box then.

[konming]

A bit more detail on NAP agreement. If you use in game message system, a message sent on turn 37 is received on turn 38. If NAP1 is supposed to give one turn notice (as oppose to tell you when we already are attacking), then attacking order can be given on turn 38, since you have that turn to prepare. Therefore, for NAP3, you can issue attack order on turn 40, but not on 39. Now if you use forum PM, then I would assume if you send message before the guy moves, it can be considered that the message is received on that turn. So a message sent on turn 37 means you can issue attack order on turn 39. This can be unfair sometimes, but forum PM at least get you read receipt and logs.

Also most NAPs state that no offensive spells cast on each other's land (even anonymous offensive spell, if you are caught) and no sneaking of offensive troops on other people's land (like stealth army, assasins, etc.)

[JimMorrison]

Unless a game specifies otherwise, NAPs are just pieces of paper. Obeying them is up to your integrity. Breaking them can make it harder to make deals in the future, etc. etc.

The general terms of NAPs are that they come with a three turn warning before either side can attack. So that if you tell someone "I'm cancelling our 3 turn NAP" on turn 37, you can't give attack orders until turn 40. Some people will play wishy washy with this, and try to squeeze, or remove, an extra turn from it by sending notification at odd times.

Also, most NAPs are put into place indefinitely. That is, the NAPs are permanently there unless one side breaks it. There are variations where people will sign an NAP for 10 turns, that has a 3 turn warning, but expires unless renewed after the ten turns. It's really up to both parties to decide on what sort of terms.

That's pretty much it. Most players use the forum's PM system to communicate for games. Make sure to indicate what game you're in, as some people are in multiples. There are a minority of players who never look at their PMs, and you'll have to use the in game system to contact them.

If you're going to do trading, some people will only sell you items for a markup, and others will trade you a 5 gem item for 5 gems that they need. It really just depends. If they have dwarven hammers, or some sort of forge bonus, they'll make a profit off the even trade. Otherwise they're just looking to get different gems.

Jazzepi


Geez! All this blah blah and you left out the part where it's customary to send me all excess gold and gems at the end of your turn. :o

[Fakeymcfake]

Jeeze, who still hasn't put their pretender in? It's been nearly a week now.

[konming]

I have sent him a PM so hopefully we can start soon.

[PsiSoldier]

If Dedas does not send in a pretender I'll join your game. just PM me.

[AreaOfEffect]

Everything is set on the server. As soon as the last pretender is submitted the game should begin automatically.

I'm fine with Psi taking the last slot if Dedas doesn't submit by late tomorrow. Dedas will have had a lot of time by then. I'm not sure what Psi will being playing as, but it certianly can't be a water nation.

[Deadnature]

yeah I second that...

no offense to Dedas but I think a week is a little excessive to wait. I mean, it doesn't take very long to think of a pretender and send it in.

[AreaOfEffect]

I've just informed Dedas (via PM) that he has 4 hours. At which point I'll take the first person to submit a pretender. Let the race begin... soon.

[konming]

Yeah, let's unleash the fearsome legion of markatas!

[PsiSoldier]

Ok I have uploaded a Pretender for Pangaea. Never played them before but what the hell, I had an army of them kill some of my decked out thugs in a single player game with their damned sleep vines so maybe their alright.

[AreaOfEffect]

Welcome to the game Psi.

[Jazzepi]

Ok I have uploaded a Pretender for Pangaea. Never played them before but what the hell, I had an army of them kill some of my decked out thugs in a single player game with their damned sleep vines so maybe their alright.

Those sleep vines are very nasty. They can kill almost any SC because the creatures get multiple attacks, the attacks ignore armor and go straight to fatigue, and each attack lowers the target's defense by 2.

The only problem is that they don't do well against conventional troops, or archers.

Jazzepi

[46852]

What do those small crowns mean on some provinces in the map?

[konming]

Victory point, which does nothing in this game except acting like a Dom5 temple for anyone who controls the province.

[46852]

Victory point, which does nothing in this game except acting like a Dom5 temple for anyone who controls the province.

Ok. I don't quite understand what Dom5 temple means though :)

Province makes temple check at 50% chance no matter what your max dominion is?

[46852]

Oh, more questions... Can I resend the turn file to the server to replace a previous one? Llama FAQ mentioned that you can at least overwrite your old pretender before the game starts, but can a turn file be overwritten before the turn time is up?

[konming]

Well, it acts like a temple as if your dominion is 5, if I read the temple information correctly.

You can send as many modified turns as you like. Just try to keep 5 minutes in between resends.

[Jazzepi]

Ok, as there are some knowledgable people in this thread, another question: What does the "Land" bit and the number mean in the mercenary window?

When you put money towards bidding on a mercenary, they appear in whatever province you had selected at the time. The province # indicates which one of your provinces they will appear in if you win the bid.

Jazzepi

[46852]

Ok, as there are some knowledgable people in this thread, another question: What does the "Land" bit and the number mean in the mercenary window?

When you put money towards bidding on a mercenary, they appear in whatever province you had selected at the time. The province # indicates which one of your provinces they will appear in if you win the bid.

Jazzepi

Knowledgable and fast, it seems :)

Found out the answer and deleted the post, but Jazz was faster.

[Jazzepi]

I've totally got a discrete math midterm today. WHY AM I HERE?!?!

:doh:

Jazzepi

[46852]

I've totally got a discrete math midterm today. WHY AM I HERE?!?!

:doh:

Jazzepi

I'm sure there's more discrete maths expertise on Dom3 forums than you can ever imagine!

So it's perfectly OK to be here.

PS. Then again, maybe reading for the exam is the better option :)

[Fakeymcfake]

What's discrete math? And by extension, does that mean there is "overt math" where the numbers jump up, kick you in the nose and yell "THE ANSWER IS 4". I wish I had that kind of math in high school, I probably would have gotten better marks, however my nose would probably be quite sore and my hearing would have suffered.

[JimMorrison]

"Discrete Math" obviously handles such talents as 'counting cards', and 'insider trading'. ;)

[AreaOfEffect]

Discrete mathematics covers a range of subjects like number and set theory, logic, and algorithmics. It is generally only required by math majors and computer science majors. These days the course tends to be geared toward CS majors, meanwhile some math majors are allowed to skip the subject completely as it isn't a "serious" math course by their standards.

I can't tell you the number of times I went to discuss discrete math to a math major and got instead a funny expression from their face.

P.S.: This post has the third most views out of all other threads on the Shrapnel Games forums. Don't ask me why. I have no clue.

[JimMorrison]

Soon, Standards will have more views than the KingMaker thread, which has 900 posts. o.O

[46852]

I'm not sure how the "views" mechanic works, but seems it doesn't add the count up if I open the thread as unregistered user or registered from different IPs... So there seems to be over 1000 spectators in our game :P

[JimMorrison]

I'm not sure how the "views" mechanic works, but seems it doesn't add the count up if I open the thread as unregistered user or registered from different IPs... So there seems to be over 1000 spectators in our game :P


You know, I did a test of "View spam" on another thread, and I couldn't seem to get it to visibly register me as a "View". Presumably, I had already opened the page once before that..... Maybe it will only count any particular user once, until someone else posts in it? That just seems entirely cumbersome to the server.....

To contrast that, I saw another thread gain 11 Views from one refresh of the page to another, and it didn't even look like a very popular thread..... I think we've got Gremlins.

[46852]

Question again! I suppose if the score graphs are disabled, you can't view the score tables on Llama page either?

PS. If the guys with the awake gods continue to conquer provinces at this rate, I'm gonna get rolled over soon! Does VotD work on pretenders? ;)

[konming]

Don't worry, awake pretender still only counts as one expansion army. Many people will be able to field second expansion team by turn 4. Looks like 4 people took awake pretender. There are two big monsters and one most likely a 1-2-2-4-4-2-2-1 rainbow, the last one is kind of hard to read. As Van, you can either take good bless and expand like crazy with vans, or you can take good scale, good magic and expand easily with skin shifters.

[Jazzepi]

Don't worry, awake pretender still only counts as one expansion army. Many people will be able to field second expansion team by turn 4. Looks like 4 people took awake pretender. There are two big monsters and one most likely a 1-2-2-4-4-2-2-1 rainbow, the last one is kind of hard to read. As Van, you can either take good bless and expand like crazy with vans, or you can take good scale, good magic and expand easily with skin shifters.

And this is why graphs on, are stupid.

Jazzepi

[konming]

Graph off just benefits the strongest player, and leads to runaway victory every time. We do not need R'lyeh to mass 80 provinces by turn 24 without people knowing it. ;)

However, the details shown on the table can reveal a lot of information that graph alone can not.

[anticipatient]

Haha. LOL @ discrete math . . .

Okay well first, in understanding what discrete math means, let's discern "discrete" from "discreet;" the former means separable, finite parts, while the latter means careful, cautious, guarded, hidden, particularly in terms of speech.

Apples are discrete until you turn them into applesauce. Water is not discrete until you turn it into ice cubes.

So discrete mathematics deals with finite, identifiable numbers and sets. In other words, it's not calculus. This group of math theories requires non-infinity, which is to say that there must be a finite amount of numbers between 0 and 1.

[konming]

Well, discrete math can certainly deal with infinite amount of elements. Other than that, you have some PMs to answer. :)

[AreaOfEffect]

People will glean information wherever they can. Though graphs are the easiest to read they are also at times the most misleading pieces of information.

The research graph won't tell you what a person has researched and there is a big difference between a nation with level 4 spells in most paths and a player with level 8 or 9 spells in just one path. The army graph is extremely misleading as some increases are free militia from random events. Little would you know that the player lost all their good units to a Bogus attack. I personally think that the hall of fame and pretender descriptions are more useful indicators at this stage of the game.

In the end, nothing is more informative then a scout. A scout that witnesses a battle can tell you the exact makeup of an enemies army, what paths they've researched, what their exact bless is along with the rough magic levels of their god, and it also allows you to witness the effectiveness of their expansion armies and what they might be weak to. Outside of battle they tell you where the enemy is and where their infrastructure lies. If you want to know your enemy, use your eyes. (Or in this case the eyes of a devoted minion.)

[46852]

Why did the turn deadline get pushed forwards today? And how does it normally work, is it like when everyone has submitted their turns, the server sends the next turn and gives a 24h deadline for that one?

PS. I too think that scoregraphs off is the better option for MP games. You can extract a bit too much info out of them even on the first few turns.

[46852]

Haha. LOL @ discrete math . . .

Okay well first, in understanding what discrete math means, let's discern "discrete" from "discreet;" the former means separable, finite parts, while the latter means careful, cautious, guarded, hidden, particularly in terms of speech.

Discreet maths means you don't speak about maths at all ;)

[JimMorrison]

3. Mathematics.
a. (of a topology or topological space) having the property that every subset is an open set.
b. defined only for an isolated set of points: a discrete variable.
c. using only arithmetic and algebra; not involving calculus: discrete methods.


I feel really embarrassed now. I thought that "discreet" wasn't even a word. I feel really .... well, awful. :eek:


Regarding the score graphs though, personally I've determined that the game is vaguely a nightmare without them. You can learn a lot with scouts, but there's much more that they can't tell you about progress, and about the relative balance of power.

2 examples of recent games without graphs - first one, the end of the game was like a big fart in the face. Seriously. It came down to 3 of us, 2 who knew we were smaller, and 1 who was over 2/3 of the map at that time. We didn't realize how enormous he was, and when he dropped ALL the elemental royalty on us at once, it was just ridiculous. Second example, is a game that I think I'm winning. I "think" so. But then, I just killed someone's god, and I think HE thought that he was winning as well, considering how cavalier and aggressive he was, but it seems his research is significantly lower than mine. How much lower? I don't know, "a significant amount".


I honestly think that of all the things I am picky about in a game, I'm not going to join another that has graphs off. It could be exciting if it was a game entirely full of highly experienced and skilled players. If anyone in the game can't attach "high" to their experience and skill, then they are probably better off with graphs - if for no other reason than that they can correlate their current actions, with their relative power in the game. There may be misleading things in the graphs, but it's unlikely they can be as misleading as no graphs at all. :p

[AreaOfEffect]

Why did the turn deadline get pushed forwards today? And how does it normally work, is it like when everyone has submitted their turns, the server sends the next turn and gives a 24h deadline for that one?

To answer your first question. I personally didn't move the turn deadline back. It must be a result of the server staling yesterday. It had gone at least five hours without updating any of the game pages.

To answer your second question. Yes, the game is set to quick host. As soon as all turns are submitted the game will generate a new turn and set the turn deadline to 24 hours from that moment.

[chrispedersen]

[Regarding the score graphs though, personally I've determined that the game is vaguely a nightmare without them. You can learn a lot with scouts, but there's much more that they can't tell you about progress, and about the relative balance of power.

2 examples of recent games without graphs - first one, the end of the game was like a big fart in the face. Seriously. It came down to 3 of us, 2 who knew we were smaller, and 1 who was over 2/3 of the map at that time. We didn't realize how enormous he was, and when he dropped ALL the elemental royalty on us at once, it was just ridiculous. Second example, is a game that I think I'm winning. I "think" so. But then, I just killed someone's god, and I think HE thought that he was winning as well, considering how cavalier and aggressive he was, but it seems his research is significantly lower than mine. How much lower? I don't know, "a significant amount".

The research graph measures accumulated research points (alafaik)
those points rollover to spell levels on a predictable arithmetic series.

I have a rough rule of thumb that converts bars = into research levels. Sure, it if he has dual researched vs single tree research blah blah. But its more accurate to do it from the scores (or is it stats).html file.

[PsiSoldier]

Well so far this sucks.. My home province is a wasteland and my income is pathetic.

[konming]

Homeland income or resource is not affected by terrain whatsoever.

[chrispedersen]

I've generally found that my placement seems tied to my scales. Ie., if I take drain, death, etc - I typically end up in wastes. If I take heavy growth, I more commonly end up in forests.

Heavy Production = often surrounded by mountains, forests.

Hasn't anyone else noticed the same?

[konming]

Well so far this sucks.. My home province is a wasteland and my income is pathetic.

It looks like you took turmoil 3, which reduce income by 21%, as opposed to most people who took order 3.

[konming]

I've generally found that my placement seems tied to my scales. Ie., if I take drain, death, etc - I typically end up in wastes. If I take heavy growth, I more commonly end up in forests.

Heavy Production = often surrounded by mountains, forests.

Hasn't anyone else noticed the same?

I do not really think so in this game. There are 12 placement clusters, other than R'lyeh, each cluster is only 2 or 3 provinces. Everyone is guaranteed some plains and some forest/mountain next to his capital.

[chrispedersen]

See, I think the program hashes all sites, and ranks them.
It then goes through and assigns the best sites to the the players with the best scales.

I *think* this to be true - it does seem to have variability.
Also, player created starting locations seem to remove some of the benefit of positive scales, by creating more or less equal starting positions (which I don't think is actually intended).

It would be interesting to take a map with 3 sites in wastes, 3 neutral sites, and 3 positive sites - and then take 3 players with +3 +3 +3 scales, 0 0 0 scales and -3 -3 -3 scales

And see where the computer assigned them. I *don't* think its luck.

[JimMorrison]

There are 12 placement clusters, other than R'lyeh, each cluster is only 2 or 3 provinces. Everyone is guaranteed some plains and some forest/mountain next to his capital.


Well, I am just glad that my strat doesn't rely on capital only troops for anything. 5 neighbors, 9/11/16/17/19 resources. One is grass, the other 4 are plains - that's it. :S (Edit - If I had taken Sloth it would be even worse, I'd be buried without being able to build mammoths. It barely works here, so I'm not really complaining, just something you might be wary of next time you do starting positions.)


Oh and last time I played Caelum, it started me in the mountains. I don't think I've noticed too rigid a guideline with that, but it does seem to have a strong tendency towards certain terrain types, with certain nations/scales.

[PsiSoldier]

Eh well I do have turmoil but it seems I have even less income than the 25% or whatever penalty would give me from the normal ammount. That and I got hit with a random event that gave me unrest in my capital.. Which sucks even more considering I have luck 3.. just bad bad luck.

[konming]

Eh well I do have turmoil but it seems I have even less income than the 25% or whatever penalty would give me from the normal ammount. That and I got hit with a random event that gave me unrest in my capital.. Which sucks even more considering I have luck 3.. just bad bad luck.

I think luck is seriously screwed. In all the games I take turmoil/luck, I get hit by way more bad events than good.

If you go turmoil 3, and other people go order 3, that's already 40% difference in gold. And Pan starts with woodland citadel, which has only 30 admin, so you lose another 10% compared to a fortified city.

Still, you get all those free menads, so it cannot be that bad. ;)

[PsiSoldier]

Yeah, I guess by turn 20 I'll have more maenads than I know what to do with. Prob is by then everyone else will have like 20 provinces and I'll still be saving up to buy my second Pan so I can take my 3rd province.. Haha.

[konming]

Income = Population/100*(1+domain income bonus)*(1+castle admin/200)

[AreaOfEffect]

Assuming you have turmoil 3 and everyone else has order 3, then you have should have 34.7% less gold then everyone else (given that all other things are equal of course). It sounds worse if you compare gold income in the other direction. Those with order 3 should have about 53.2% more gold then you.

However, as noted their are several advantages that tip the balance in the other direction. First of all is the design points. Taking turmoil 3 nets you 240 design points more then taking order 3. Even with luck 3 you are still above by 120 points, which could go to growth and production in order to overcome the income gap, or to your god in order to improve your sacreds. The second advantage is, as already mentioned, maenads. Though you only reap this advantage with the recruitment of Pans. If your not buying pans then there was never a point in taking turmoil, aside from the sweet turmoil luck combo (which I have had much better "luck" with apparently). I personally start my Pangaea games by hiring only the hoplites and Pans if I can afford them. If I can't afford a Pan then I generally don't buy a commander at all and horde the cash until next turn. I might also by the cheapest commander in order to move around my freespawn. I generally do this until my income is more sustainable.

For expansion put the hoplites up front to take arrow fire and use the maenads as flankers. It sounds backwards but I find it works out the best this way.

[PsiSoldier]

Hrrm thanks for the tips. Hoplites probably are a much better choice than the cataphracts I was trying to buy when gold is low.

Cataphracts may be better and rarely die but gold for gold they are not nearly as good a value as hoplites.

[AreaOfEffect]

I am announcing that Mictlan and Pythium have entered a 6 round NAP. In my understanding, the leader of Pythium is willing to confirm this.

Thank you. That is all.

[chrispedersen]

Absolutely.

The daughter of law has been betrothed to the Emerald Prince. Peace shall rule our lands. One day our peoples shall be as one.

In the meantime we have much to learn from the people of Law. And a Nap + 6 is the least of our hopes. I hope that soon we will confirm a mutual defense pact.

Peace to those of goodwill - Virtue to those otherwise inclined.

Pyth

[46852]

Has anyone received any PMs from me? I've sent a few, and my "Sent Box" shows 0 messages still...

I at least wish Pythium/Chris has received my messages :)

[AreaOfEffect]

I've received a PM from you. You have to mark a check box at the bottom of the compose message page in order for a copy of the PM to be saved to your sent folder. Its rather annoying.

[46852]

I've received a PM from you. You have to mark a check box at the bottom of the compose message page in order for a copy of the PM to be saved to your sent folder. Its rather annoying.

Ok, got it. Check your PMs, AoE :)

[PsiSoldier]

Pangaea sends its condolence's to the families of the brave Ashdod warriors who died in the tragic battle with Pangaean forces as they thought they went to do battle with independent rebels.

They fought bravely and killed many maenads and a few valiant centaurs. Thankfully many more maenads have volunteered for service in our armed forces to replace those lost on this day.

We will erect a temple in honor of the Ashdod soldiers on the site of their death in the near future to commemorate their bravery.

[Fakeymcfake]

Ah, the wonderful thing about maenads is that there are always more where they came from. That and they make excellent target practice.

[JimMorrison]

And they keep your fur free of nits and burrs! :rolleyes:

[anticipatient]

And they polish your . . trophies!

[JimMorrison]

You have more than one.... trophy? :eek:

[Jazzepi]

It's not so much a trophy as... a font. A font of immaculum.

Jazzepi, immortal

[46852]

Question:

Does NAP3 mean by definiton a lasting non-aggression pact that won't end until either of the nations declares so, and after that declaration you can only attack after 3 turns?

Just a bit mixed up with the terms, when there's NAP3 or a 3t NAP and someone mentioned a NAP +3 ...

[chrispedersen]

There are two different things..

A nap of a certain duration, or a nap of infinite duration, which only expires a number of turns after notification.

So for example, when I say nap + 3, it means a nap that continues indefinitely until the 3rd turn after either party notifies.

[konming]

NAP3 or a 3t NAP and someone mentioned a NAP +3, they are all the same. Unless specifically stating NAP shall last how many turns then expire, all should be considered indefinate until notice is given + how many turns specified in NAP agreement.

[JimMorrison]

Else it is a Peace Accord, or some such thing, an Armistice perhaps. Of course, it's hard to expect so many complicated terms thrown about on the internets, especially in a multi-lingual community.

But still, I don't see what's wrong with telling someone, "you're my ***** now, and I'll give you 3 turns eviction notice when I come to take your stuff".

:shock:

[PsiSoldier]

Pangaea would advise Ashdod to move no further north as we lay claim to those territories 200 and 209. Failure to heed this warning could result in the loss of your army.

[JimMorrison]

This map with no natural barriers sure leads to a lot of early bumper cars, and spear shaking. :shock:

[konming]

Fortunately we have diplomacy. :)

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm sorry to disagree with the fine nation of Pangaea but province 209 is under the dominion of the Nation of Man, or at least will be unless something unexpected occurs between now and tomorrow.

[PsiSoldier]

Very well If 209 is under the dominion of man It can stay there as long as the dominion of man does not spread further to the East. Though the last time someone attempted to take a province same turn as me it didnt turn out well for them. But neither of us knew the other was going for it.

[chrispedersen]

Considering the server is down - when it comes back up can we have a reasonable delay - we don't know when the server is coming up, and I will be away for labor day weekend

[PsiSoldier]

Considering the server is down - when it comes back up can we have a reasonable delay - we don't know when the server is coming up, and I will be away for labor day weekend

Thats ok, I'll sub for you. I umm promise *Finger's crossed* not to send all your gems and money to Pangaea while your gone. :D

I wasn't aware the server was down though.. I guess that would explain why I never got a confirmation email when I revised a turn in another game a little while ago.

[46852]

Maybe the turn 11 deadline should be moved to Monday morning after the server comes up? Is there a risk of staling turns if the server comes up suddendly and you haven't sent your turn yet?

[46852]

This map with no natural barriers sure leads to a lot of early bumper cars, and spear shaking. :shock:

It really does :)

Not exactly the easiest game to start the Dom3 MP career, but the diplomacy sure gets important here. I wish I had had a corner or map edge start... the score graphs tell that some nations definitely had more elbow room in the beginning than others :)


... or they just knew how to expand faster!

[chrispedersen]

Maybe the turn 11 deadline should be moved to Monday morning after the server comes up? Is there a risk of staling turns if the server comes up suddendly and you haven't sent your turn yet?

thats exactly my point - plus llama is upgrading to 3.20 and we don't know what issues that will cause for people

For example..3.17 causes one of my computers to crash. Still no idea why.

[AreaOfEffect]

If given the chance I will delay the game for 8 hours once the server is back online. I need to see what the difference is for UK time is.

[chrispedersen]

When I checked in on saturday, the game was set for tuesday. Was cool, was inlines with what I said being away for labor day.

Someone moved the game UP, causing me to stale.

I'm dropping. Best wishes.

Chris

[Deadnature]

Sorry, but why didn't you just send in your turn before the weekend? Besides, I don't think one stale is by itself a reason to quit.

No offense though, sorry to hear you want to drop.

[chrispedersen]

I *couldn't* upload a turn before the weekend. Llama server wasn't responding.

[Deadnature]

I thought it was still accepting turns, could be wrong.

Anyway, my main point is only that I'm sorry to hear you want to drop. I know that a stale can be pretty frustrating I understand where you are coming from.

[anticipatient]

Oh yeah, I can't open my games now. There is a new version of Dominions3?

[Fakeymcfake]

Yep, check the Dominions 3 page for the newest patch, might have to search a little for the link.

[46852]

Chris dropping out then? :(

Are we getting a sub for him? And by the way, what happens to human nation during a stale turn? Is it just a passed turn, the AI doesn't interfere or anything? Just a bit scared what happens at our borders :)

[Fakeymcfake]

Nothing happens, it just sits and collects money/gems/research. And while I can understand that stale turns are somewhat irritating (I've had one already this game due to a mistake on my part) it is a bit of a disappointment that Chris dropping because of one missed turn. The issue with llamaserver has been cleared up in any case so I doubt there will be any further problems.

[Deadnature]

So, are we finding a sub? If not, I'd be curious to know which nations border Pythium; I think its only fair to know :)

[PsiSoldier]

I *couldn't* upload a turn before the weekend. Llama server wasn't responding.

The e-mail (and web) addresses will stay the same, and in fact any e-mail you've sent in the last two days should be received normally. So hopefully everything will be reasonably seamless.

Just because Llamaserver did not respond at the time you sent your email it should have still received your email when it came online. It did receive mine..

Which leads me to believe you just didnt send in a turn.

[AreaOfEffect]

My apologies on the matter. In chris' defense he has actually suffered 2 staled turns, which at this point can lead to quite a set back. This is especially true considering his original strategy.

Either way I believe chris might have staled anyhow considering the original deadline was early today, not sometime tomorrow as he perceived.

I am willing to delay turn 14 in order to find a replacement. Though I'm sure that might take a couple of days to find. I also bet Ry'leh would be eager to have a bit of coast uninhabited by an active player.

My encouragement to chris is to stick it out if you can. I have come to this point in a few games myself and would dearly have regretted giving up. Jim can contest to this since he was in the last game I played.

[Jazzepi]

My apologies on the matter. In chris' defense he has actually suffered 2 staled turns, which at this point can lead to quite a set back. This is especially true considering his original strategy.

Either way I believe chris might have staled anyhow considering the original deadline was early today, not sometime tomorrow as he perceived.

I am willing to delay the game further in order to find a replacement. Though I'm sure that might take a couple of days to find. I also bet Ry'leh would be eager to have a bit of coast uninhabited by an active player.

My encouragement to chris is to stick it out if you can. I have come to this point in a few games myself and would dearly have regretted giving up. Jim can contest to this since he was in the last game I played.

GNOGNOGNOGNGOGNGNOM

COASTLINE!

Jazzepi

[JimMorrison]

My encouragement to chris is to stick it out if you can. I have come to this point in a few games myself and would dearly have regretted giving up. Jim can contest to this since he was in the last game I played.


AOE does indeed have an iron will, a spine like an oak, and testicles like coconuts.

:shock:

He also sets up a mean communion. :mad:

[Deadnature]

The brave soldiers of Ulm have defeated the invaders! After slaying the Wyrm-god of Abysia we also destroyed one of their vengeful armies. But Ulm is hard-pressed! Now the ape-people of Bandar-Log have also attacked the Iron Kingdom and we were forced to kill their elephants.

Enemies be warned: you will pay dearly for every inch of our land, be it lush plains or desolate wasteland. Long live ULM!!

[AreaOfEffect]

I suspect they just want your tasty delicious gem income that you have worked so hard for.

P.S.: Ulm's PD is so good.

[chrispedersen]

Either way I believe chris might have staled anyhow considering the original deadline was early today, not sometime tomorrow as he perceived.

No. I met all the deadlines as published by llamaserver, except this one which was moved up. I even said I was going to be away labor day weekend!

I think it wasn't kosher to move it up AoE; moving it up, after a server outage, after an upgrade, and after a request not to -but it can't really be undone at this point - so whats the point?

Anyway the position has some strong positivies. I'm not dropping as it isn't playable, I'm dropping because of disgust. But I'll help a sub anyway I can, to minimize disruption.

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm sorry you're disgusted. You've already placed yourself as AI. The only way to undo that as far as I know is to roll back the previous turn. Yet, if we are going to roll back one turn then why not two?

I'm personally not going to decide on this though as it has way too many consequences. Those already embroiled in war would obviously change many of their actions based on the results of previous failures. If all of the players are for it then I'm willing to do the roll backs, but only if their is a reasonable consensus.

[Deadnature]

Sorry, I'm fighting a two-front war that has barely gone ok for me thus far...my enemies would greatly benefit from a two-turn rollback whereas I would probably make the same choices but with less benefits.

So I'm against a rollback.

[Jazzepi]

Either way I believe chris might have staled anyhow considering the original deadline was early today, not sometime tomorrow as he perceived.

No. I met all the deadlines as published by llamaserver, except this one which was moved up. I even said I was going to be away labor day weekend!

I think it wasn't kosher to move it up AoE; moving it up, after a server outage, after an upgrade, and after a request not to -but it can't really be undone at this point - so whats the point?

Anyway the position has some strong positivies. I'm not dropping as it isn't playable, I'm dropping because of disgust. But I'll help a sub anyway I can, to minimize disruption.

Little late. You can't undo going AI.

Jazzepi

[46852]

Umm... does changing to AI violate a NAP? :)

[konming]

You may attack AI freely. It will certainly do so.

[anticipatient]

Yeah, moving the deadline up was a bad idea :0p but mistakes happen

[AreaOfEffect]

I understand that now anticipatient. I'm also really bummed out about the whole affair. The concensus seems to be against the only way to correct the situation. This is a mistake that will not be reapeated as I truely wish everyone to enjoy this game.

[konming]

Unless you get the confirmation that everyone knows and has no objections to the new deadline, it is never a good idea to move forward hosting deadline. Many people rely on llamaserver display to determine hosting deadline and do not check back every 10 minutes.

[chrispedersen]

Hey, AoE, I want you to know - no hard feelings. I'll happily play in another game - with you, against you or hosted by you.
Things happen.
Have fun guys.

[PsiSoldier]

Pangaea calls on all nations to who respect the balance of power to help us in our struggle, as the Vile cowardly army of Mictlan has launched a sneak attack against our peacefull nation taking two of our already insignificant number of provinces without provocation.

We call on all nations bordering Mictlan to join us in our crusade to stop these cowardly warmongers. Their bless seems to be nothing special a simple +4 armor/Twist Fate. Nothing the powerful armies of Ashdod should fear or likely any other neighbor of Mictlan. So join us as we struggle to purge the land of these fools.

[PsiSoldier]

WHAT THE ****!! Why did the game go to the next turn before I ever submitted my turn. I was not over the time limit.

This turn was not due until 22:05 Wed. Today which gives me another several hours... WTF!@!! This is bull ****. It seems like Area must have moved the turn up so I couldnt respond to his attack, though after the fiasco with Chris I doubt thats the case. I was just about to send my turn in and I look and see it already moved on to the next turn.

I didnt get any damn email with the turn until this morning before I went to work although I checked several times until 12 midnight last night, get up at 4am for work find I got the turn file but dont have time to do anything, go to work a 10 hour shift come home and the damn turn updates before I can send it in. If I'm not going to get my turn file emails in time to do anything I may as well quit this dumb game right now, I already stay up so late waiting for the damn turns I only have 4 hours to sleep as it is.

At this point I am all for Rolling back for Chris because Im giving serious thought to dropping out myself after this otherwise...

[PsiSoldier]

Unless you get the confirmation that everyone knows and has no objections to the new deadline, it is never a good idea to move forward hosting deadline. Many people rely on llamaserver display to determine hosting deadline and do not check back every 10 minutes.

What was the point in moving it up anyways? The turn would have advanced regardless of the time as soon as everyone sends in their turn...

[PsiSoldier]

After looking at Llamaserver more carefully I realize the time listed is 5 hours ahead of my time zone which is a little deceptive. And I was indeed over the time to submit my turn file.. My inexperience with Llamaserver is to blame for that.

However, for whatever reason I still did not receive my turn file email until sometime after midnight last night and had no possible way of sending in my turn on time although I was JUST about to before the turn updated.

I realize it was obviously no fault of Area that I missed my turn and apologize for any thought that he may have been, unless he can magically delay my email but I'm still pretty bummed out about it and I am still considering dropping the game. And if there is indeed a problem with me getting my email's when I am supposed to I probably should drop unless we increase the turn time limit. I never had any problem like this in any other game and I am ussually the first to send in my turn but something goofed up big time here.

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm going to be away for a couple of days to attend a wedding this weekend. If it isn't any trouble would it be possible to delay the turn in of Saturday's turn until at least late afternoon EST Sunday?

[AreaOfEffect]

Wow, so I signed on to make a post asking if people needed the game time extended. My thought was that people are starting to get into some real warfare and my opponents might need the time.

I'm almost glad I didn't show up until the whole issue with Psi resolved itself. If people are ever curious, the admin log is located on the llamserver for all to see. There is no action I can take that won't be recorded for your benefit. Just go to the game page, click on 'Admin options' and then click on 'Show admin log'.

As for the sever time, it isn't in my time zone either. I generally just figure the difference between the next turn and the server's current time. It is the small difference between knowing how much time I have left versus knowing what time the game will turn. It is subtle.

I really don't want to see another player leave the game. I really do love a challenge and in my opinion you were looking like you were about to hit critical mass with those maeanads. I might be willing to back off for one turn if that will keep you from going AI.

Now for my original business. Do we need to increase the game time? If so, should we go 36 hours or do people need as much as 48?

Edit: No problem Fakeymcfake, have fun at the reception.

[konming]

I can live with 24 but if others want 48 I agree.

[PsiSoldier]

Wow, so I signed on to make a post asking if people needed the game time extended. My thought was that people are starting to get into some real warfare and my opponents might need the time.

I'm almost glad I didn't show up until the whole issue with Psi resolved itself. If people are ever curious, the admin log is located on the llamserver for all to see. There is no action I can take that won't be recorded for your benefit. Just go to the game page, click on 'Admin options' and then click on 'Show admin log'.

As for the sever time, it isn't in my time zone either. I generally just figure the difference between the next turn and the server's current time. It is the small difference between knowing how much time I have left versus knowing what time the game will turn. It is subtle.

I really don't want to see another player leave the game. I really do love a challenge and in my opinion you were looking like you were about to hit critical mass with those maeanads. I might be willing to back off for one turn if that will keep you from going AI.

Now for my original business. Do we need to increase the game time? If so, should we go 36 hours or do people need as much as 48?

Edit: No problem Fakeymcfake, have fun at the reception.

If I hadn't staled I would have destroyed your army and recruited another 2 pans that I now do not have thanks being sieged and to the stale.. So the stale hurt me even more than missing one turn, its more like I missed 2 or even 3 turns. I'm going to destroy your siegeing army this turn regardless but im still screwed.

Feel free to back off if you want But I have another large army coming for you which, again would have already reached you had it not been for the stale...

[anticipatient]

Sh-t. I broke 4/5 of my LCD computer screen. :o/ Smashed. White, black and pink. No good. I can't run dom3 on any other computer at the moment, so the 10 or 11 games I'm in need subs :( I'm really sorry. Hopefully it'll be temporary (anyone know if it's possible to replace monitors on laptops?)

Okay, I go to post on the next game =(

[AreaOfEffect]

Most laptops have a monitor jack in the rear or in a docking station. If you can locate a regular monitor then you should be able to see what your doing by simply plugging it in.

I'll extend the turn by 24 hours to give you time to find a sub or fix the situation.

[chrispedersen]

Sh-t. I broke 4/5 of my LCD computer screen. :o/ Smashed. White, black and pink. No good. I can't run dom3 on any other computer at the moment, so the 10 or 11 games I'm in need subs :( I'm really sorry. Hopefully it'll be temporary (anyone know if it's possible to replace monitors on laptops?)

Okay, I go to post on the next game =(

It is both possible to replace the monitor, and possible to fix them. I do this for a living - but you're kind of far away.

Check out .. www.lcdparts.net

But, what the previous poster said (code for I can't remember his name) is true - if you attach a regular monitor it should work. Again, I could sell you one for 10-15$ but the shipping costs would eat you alive.

Best

[anticipatient]

Ok, so I've figured out a way to limp by until I get a replacement monitor working, and I can continue playing. Sorry about the fuss :)

I will check out lcdparts.net! Thanks a lot!

[AreaOfEffect]

Updated the hosting interval to 36 hours as the early game has come to an end. This also should give Fakey the time he needed to submit his next turn.

[Fakeymcfake]

Back and turning in turns again, thanks for stretching the time out for me.

[AreaOfEffect]

nozshand and anticipatient look like their going to stale soon. Anybody think I should do something about it?

This would be nozshand's second stale in a row.

[Calahan]

Personally think it's always a good friendly jesture to delay a game at least 12hrs to avoid stales. Providing someone spots them in time of course (and even more convenient if the admin spots them :D)

Haven't noticed anticipatient around for a few days now. Maybe his broken laptop screen has given up completely and he can't get on the forums anymore until his replacement monitor arrives. No idea about Nozshand.

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, I've found that if they're gone for 3 turns they're not coming back. I'd suggest switching Nozshand to AI if he fails post an explanation or to turn in the next one in order to keep the game moving.

[Calahan]

Did anyone stale after AoE?

If Nozshand did then my shout is that it's probably best to set him to AI, since his position isn't looking too hot so he may well have just bailed. If Anticipatient staled then I'd be inclined to PM him and give him a delay. Since he is/was a regular in many games until his recent computer 'accident', so most likely scenario is that he is still around, but just having trouble getting on-line.

Though all of this is just my random ramblings and opinion of course :p

[AreaOfEffect]

Anticipatient submitted his turn a couple of hours later, making the delay worth some of the wait. Nozshand on the other hand staled again. I'm going to grant him a warning and see if he responds first. I'm sure you know first hand how bad his situation is.

I'm going to take a quick look around to see if someone is willing to play the faction before a resign it to AI status.

[AreaOfEffect]

3 stales in a row for Arcoscephale and noz hasn't responded to my messages. If I can't find a sub in the next 24 hours then I'm going to set the faction to AI. I'm only willing to let nozshand keep his faction if he shows up real soon and pinkie swears to submit his turns. I'm not willing to travel.

[fungalreason]

I'll take over Arco if you haven't found someone yet.

[AreaOfEffect]

I've said this already in the "sub needed" post but I'll say it again. Thank you very much. I've sent you a pm with instructions.

I'll delay the game until fungal can submit the latest turn.

[Calahan]

Great news that a sub has been found for Arco :up: Just revised the Ashdod orders so as to cancel their planned annihilation, and sent the new Lord of Arco an offer of peace with a proposed return of several of their former provinces.

Never easy being a sub, and it's no fun at all (and IMHO a bit insulting) if it turns out the sub only came in to make a final hopeless last turn or two. Since that is probably the only thing the AI can actually do well :D Guess I'm also feeling a bit guilty for (probably) making Nozshand jump ship on us in the first place by attacking him.

Although maybe not that guilty since I know nobody likes being on the worse end of a losing war, but this is a war game after all, you can't expect to 'win every war', and in my opinion these 'being defeated' type of positions need to be played out until the last gasp, and not just abandoned or set to AI. As doing that just spoils the game for all the other players by making things far too easy and convenient for the player who's beating you. Ok, end of my mini-rant against non 'fight til the bitter end' players.

[AreaOfEffect]

Personally, I love every turn of a losing war of one-on-one. Don't get me wrong, it would be far more rewarding if I can turn it around. However, going down in a blaze of glory has always been exciting. Then again, I'm crazy. Crazy like a fox!

[AreaOfEffect]

A message has arrived from Pangaea

The people of Pangaea hereby issue a cry for help from all nations bordering Mictlan. Mictlan has devoted massive resources to an unsuccessful siege of our capitol and are constantly increasing their presence here with no success. Their troops will soon fall to disease and given their efforts to take our capital they cannot have many troops in reserve for defense of their own nation.

Now is the time to strike at Mictlan while they pay for the upkeep of over 200 sick and diseased troops and leave themselves vulnerable to attack from other nations.

You make this sound like its my first rodeo. The only way to know for sure if my troops are diseased is to engage them, even if it is with only one commander. (A summoned mound king maybe?) Clearly you haven't done this recently or else you would know that my guys are just fine. Remember that all of the supplies are located outside of your castle, not in it. I'm sitting on 706 supplies a turn. Besides, I have nature mages and clearly would not let starvation happen to my army if that is an option.

Now, if you knew I was starving and in enemy dominion then you could defeat me easily with a little thaumaturgy. Panic spam plus a -6 (maybe -5, can't remember) moral penalty would probably cause me to rout easily. Then your fast as lightning maeanads could pick my non-flying guys off as I retreated.

Since this is not the case I wouldn't advise this. Instead I would research Alteration. If Mass Protection was in reach then you could turn all of your naked chaff into naked medium infantry. If Mass protection is too far away then wooden warriors is a much more obtainable substitute.

I also need to make a clarification. A reasonable strategy for me at this point is to begin a dominion kill rather then commit more troops. In this case I need only to have an army large enough to match what you have inside. Now that I have limited your income to the best of my ability I can hope that you reach a cap based on upkeep cost. I have never expect you to lose units to disease as Pangaea can easily counter starvation. Your capitol alone supplies you with enough gems to make a bag of wine a turn, more if you've made a hammer. If you're suffering from starvation and can make bags of wine then I suggest you do so.

I know that all this advice is against my interests, but still I wish you the best of luck.

[PsiSoldier]

Yeah If forged plenty of the Large Cauldron +100 supply Items for my troops. But no harm in working up the crowd to set them against you :D

And you dont have much chance of getting a dominion kill, but go ahead and try...

"Only need to have an army large enough to match what I have inside" Good luck haha.

[PsiSoldier]

Actually I'll probably set myself to AI tommorrow or whenever I get Warhammer Online. I suppose there is still a chance I could turn things around and come back and win the game but the chances of that get slimmer and slimmer by the day. I was just going to break the siege and spam you with sleep clouds, but Ive never used them and not sure how well they work or how much it will hurt my own troops in the process. I'd prefer to spend my time in the games where I'm sure I still have a good chance of beating everyone since I'm sure WarHammer will suck up a lot of time.

Maybe I'll give that a go before I turn it over to AI just to see if it is effective at all since I'm curious. just another turn or two I guess.

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, if you're just going to go AI you may as well just to see what happens. Furthermore, I played the beta of Warhammer Online and personally thought it was overrated for the most part. Then again I've grown tired of the typical MMO fare since they all seem to be variations on the same theme of killing things repeatedly to get the ability kill other things repeatedly.

[AreaOfEffect]

The llamserver is finally back up. llamabeast has also set the host to go off in 36 hours. Its like getting a bunch of presents wrapped in boxes and then being told that I can't open them until tomorrow. Anybody else feel the itch for some real warfare?

[JimMorrison]

The llamserver is finally back up. llamabeast has also set the host to go off in 36 hours. Its like getting a bunch of presents wrapped in boxes and then being told that I can't open them until tomorrow. Anybody else feel the itch for some real warfare?


Don't tell me you had resorted to SP as well? :P

[Fakeymcfake]

Well, sounds like someone is planning on starting this game in earnest once things begin rolling again, I can hardly wait.

[AreaOfEffect]

I don't think I ever stopped being earnest. I think I submitted five to six variation of my turn all under the assumption that the llamaserver was going to receive them. Its what happens when someone gives me too long of a time frame to ponder such intricacies. The few changes to diplomatic statuses weren't helpful in curbing this addictive behavior either.

Edit: Luckly I'm in a network game as well so I didn't have to SP in order to get my Dominions fix.

[konming]

Ape nation of Bandar Log is looking to buy a thristle mace. We pay well. Interested party please inquiry by PM. :)

[Calahan]

Think we have another staling nation in the form of Abysia.

'anticipatient' is playing them, and I know he had a computer problem a few weeks back, but was getting it sorted and seemed to be coping with turns just about in the meantime. But since Ike appeared on the US scene he hasn't been seen on the forums, or submitted turns for any of the games he's in. So not sure if it's his computer probs that are keeping him away, or if some power outage problems have added to his Dominions playing woes, or something else entirely. Whatever though, four stales in a row suggests something needs to be done.

AoE, you did a top job find a sub for Arco, fancy having another bash at sub finding for Abysia? They should be any easier sell as well since they seem to be in an ok position even with the stales, and they also don't have Ashdodians beating down their front door :)

[AreaOfEffect]

Funny, I was about to come to this thread to suggest that we find a sub for anticipatent. I hesitated longer with him because he at least informed us of his problem. I see what I can find.

P.S.: Bandar Log doing good for itself. I don't suppose they've researched any new strategies?

[AreaOfEffect]

Hoo will be our sub unless otherwise noted. His only request is that the hosting interval be set to 48 hours. He's sure he'll get his turns in before this, but wants the extra leeway. I personally have no problem with this.

Welcome to the game hoo.

[hoo]

With malice towards none and charity towards all*, I say hello. Since I have no idea what my predecssor may have done, I have a blank slate with all in the game. I am willing to honor any NAPS currently in Effect, so please contact me with any specifics as to your diplomacy with Abyssia. I have no idea what type of shape Abyssia is in so there's a chance, I may post in the next 24 hours full of woe, anguish and pleading for mercy. Look forward to joining the game.

hoo


*Please recognize the possibility that if Abyssia is a currently an unknown powerhouse, I reserve the right to use you as candles for my next evening soiree.

[Calahan]

Area Of Effect you are a sub finding GOD :angel :angel :angel

On topic, I'm about to leave work after having a really rotten day, and knowing full well I will have an even more rotten day tomorrow to look forward too :( Now instead of that guaranteed painful day of work, I'd much rather stay at home and play Dominions :) So AoE, any chance you can find me a sub for work for a day or two? :D

[AreaOfEffect]

Sure, I'm bored with my own job. Where do I report for duty? :)

[hoo]

Abyssia Update: Wanted: Charlton Heston


Apparently, naughty little monkeys thought they could help themselves to Abyssian territory while the house was dark. Now, daddy is home and is displeased to find monkey poo in the front yard. I'm willing to discuss peace provided you're willing to pay for it.

[AreaOfEffect]

To my own disadvantage, I have postponed the hosting of this next turn by 6 hours. It would be sad if only one of my many enemies got to submit commands this turn. My apologies if you were expecting a new turn to arrive just minutes from now.

[PsiSoldier]

Well, this turn either your siege of my capital will be broken or I'll lose a lot of troops, As far as I know Mictlan doesnt have the greatest armor in the world so we shall see how you stand up under a massive barrage of Blade Wind and acid rain.. Should be interesting.

[JimMorrison]

I didn't see any Acid Rain. :o The Blade Wind did alright, but there were just too many Eagle Warriors for you to have much of a chance. It would have been better if your real troops had been outside the Maenads as well, as them fighting and dying would have been better than just standing there and autorouting. ;)

[PsiSoldier]

Well I guess the Jade Maidens were pretty much immune to blade wind

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm going to be honest. On the first examination of the turn I didn't even notice your attack. This is in no way my attempt to be rude, but I had bigger concerns at the time.

I don't want you to leave the game without taking something from this experience. My greatest pleasure was in seeing you choose the master lich as your pretender. It is such a wonderful pretender in my opinion and really deserves more praise then it gets. However, I feel you didn't use it to it's fullest potential. The master lich is the sort of god you send out naked with a bunch of chaff to cast some horrifying battlefield spell and then script to attack so that he dies from a short sword wound. Dying while in his own dominion is honestly the best thing that can happen to the master lich once he's done his thing. For him it's like a free teleport spell back to his capitol. Combine that with the ability to cloud trapeze or teleport and you can strike at armies on opposite sides of your dominion in consecutive rounds. In your case you could have sent out your god in repeated attempts to whittle my army down and assess my forces. These free attacks could have allowed you to see some sort of hole in my strategy. It might have made you avoid blade wind in preference to some other spell.

I less-then-three the master lich to a degree that I'm sure you can't comprehend. Unlike every other person in this game who prefers that damned great enchantress. Three of them, how in the world can their be three of them! Let's also not forget Ry'leh with his stupid wyrm! In the same way I love the master lich, I detest the wyrm. Don't get me wrong, it is a good wyrm as far as wyrms go, but for god sake it has a head where it's $@# should be!

Thank you for playing till the end. I very much like to see someone with tenacity. It reminds me that next time, when against the same opponent, things won't be so easy.

[PsiSoldier]

Yeah, things wont be so easy in our Revenge of Pimping game.. Of course I currently have a NAP with your teammate and I suppose by extension with you as well, at least until Ermor is taken care of..

The main thing I learned from that game was Dont go with Pangaea for that strategy on such a small damn map where you wont have time to get production into full swing. The battle might have gone a little differently had I made some more enourmous cauldrons and fed my troops before hand, I didnt realize that starvation hurt their moral that badly, most of them started running as soon as it started. But I wanted it to be over so I can spend my time elsewhere anyways.

[fungalreason]

Well Arco is officially dead. Unfortunately I think I ended up doing absolutely nothing, but I tried ;)

[AreaOfEffect]

Thanks for doing what you could. It was much better then letting the nation go AI.

To Vanheim: I hope your large army likes dying a slow and painful death in a disease infested swamp. I suppose I neglected to mention that feature of the landscape.

[46852]

Thanks for doing what you could. It was much better then letting the nation go AI.

To Vanheim: I hope your large army likes dying a slow and painful death in a disease infested swamp. I suppose I neglected to mention that feature of the landscape.

Yeah, lets call that a beginner's mistake... I'm using that same die-in-the-swamp strategy in singleplayer games all the time! :)

I'm really noticing that one turn at this point of the game needs actually lots of time and attention to be carried out succesfully without being infested with simple mistakes. I just dropped out of my second game so I could concentrate more on Standards, I hope it improves my gameplay a bit.

I had my last turn actually carefully played out in good time, but then my son came and pressed the power off from the computer. I had to replay the turn in haste last night, so I blame him for any mistakes I made ;)

[Jazzepi]

Could I please get a 72 hour extension? I'll be gone this weekend.

Jazzepi

[AreaOfEffect]

No problem.

[Fakeymcfake]

Let it be known that Ashdod has perpetrated an unprovoked attack against the Nation of Man in violation of our NAP. Let this be evidence to all other nations the cost of tolerating their continued existence as their wanton lust for conquest will not be sated until all lands are crushed beneath their gargantuan heels.

(Actually I'm somewhat happy you made a move, it was getting a bit boring and I'm interested to see if I'll be able to topple your giants. Also, how the the heck did this thread fall to the second page?)

[Calahan]

@ Fakeymcfake

There was never any Ashdod-Man NAP in existence to break. The only agreement we ever had was an early peace signing to allow each of our nations to expand without clashing with each other. And this is very different from a NAP. Also, if you did believe you had a NAP with Ashdod, then it is you who broke it first by sending stealthy preachers into Ashdod lands. That is always a sure fire way to violate an NAP.

But politics aside :) I'm looking forward to some good battles ahead against the archery kings of Avalon :happy:

Edit: Greeting Mictlan :)

[AreaOfEffect]

Greeting Ashdod. :)

I certianly couldn't let you have all the fun wothout any of the challenge. Lucky for you I've got my neighbors knocking on the door. Do you think I should let them in?

P.S.: I cast a summon spell. I hope you like it.

[Fakeymcfake]

I was fairly certain that we had a 3 turn NAP along with that boarder agreement, could be mistaken though as I'm bad about remembering details. Anyhow the priest was just poking about due to the massive amounts of troops you had sitting on our boarders. In any event, don't take what I say too literally (especially in-game) as I enjoy overly bombastic rhetoric and rarely have a chance to let loose.

In any effect it's now a moot point as war from any cause is still war, and despite the odds I plan on winning or at least severely annoying you to the point of utter frustration.

[Calahan]

@ AoE - Can't promise you'll have any fun in Ashdodian lands, but you are welcome to have a look :) and if you feel the need to cast a spell or two to aid your enjoyment, then go right ahead :D And I'm pretty sure it's good manners to open your door whenever somebody knocks on it. I'm certainly expecting such a courtesy off you when I come-a-banging on Mictlan HQ :p

@ Fakeymcfake - The Dominions notepad, which I summoned up from my local supermarket, and which I highly recommend to all Dom MP-ers :up:, tells me that it was just a 'peace' agreement we had, and not any sort of NAP. But as you say, all besides the point now :) Looking forward to a good war ahead though. And win or lose, I hope we both have a blast :happy:

[AreaOfEffect]

hoo has asked for a 4 hour delay. I have granted it in trade for someone's first born child.

[Fakeymcfake]

hoo has asked for a 4 hour delay. I have granted it in trade for someone's first born child.

I'm calling "not it" on this one.

[AreaOfEffect]

My apologies to my opponents. My battles with Vanheim and Ry'leh both executed in ways I had not planned. The problem with Vanheim was that units I had planned on staying left for the battle against Ry'leh. I beleive I would have won had I the critical mass I thought I had.

As for Ry'leh. My apologies. Every scenario I wanted to avoid happened anyhow due to several scripting mistakes and incorrect assumptions. Yet I managed to win, something that shouldn't have happened. I need to rein in that nature three mage who decided to cast Touch of Madness on slingers. I also need to know from now on that astral spells will likely target you mages over the shambler thralls. How embarrassing.

All is well though. I'll take special care these next few rounds. Especially when swapping units from two different provinces. As for Ashodod, well done. I think I've got solution to those sacreds though. Let's round three begin.

[Jazzepi]

My apologies to my opponents. My battles with Vanheim and Ry'leh both executed in ways I had not planned. The problem with Vanheim was that units I had planned on staying left for the battle against Ry'leh. I beleive I would have won had I the critical mass I thought I had.

As for Ry'leh. My apologies. Every scenario I wanted to avoid happened anyhow due to several scripting mistakes and incorrect assumptions. Yet I managed to win, something that shouldn't have happened. I need to rein in that nature three mage who decided to cast Touch of Madness on slingers. I also need to know from now on that astral spells will likely target you mages over the shambler thralls. How embarrassing.

All is well though. I'll take special care these next few rounds. Especially when swapping units from two different provinces. As for Ashodod, well done. I think I've got solution to those sacreds though. Let's round three begin.


I'd love to know why none of my units cast shadow blast like I instructed them to. Or even followed their script at all.

I find communions extremely frustrating most of the time.

Jazzepi

[46852]

My apologies to my opponents. My battles with Vanheim and Ry'leh both executed in ways I had not planned. The problem with Vanheim was that units I had planned on staying left for the battle against Ry'leh. I beleive I would have won had I the critical mass I thought I had.

..... Let's round three begin.

It was a struggle for us even against that smaller force of yours. On the other hand, you might have lost to R'Lyeh if you'd have your forces split in the manner you planned.

Because of a misunderstanding (I hope) Caelum advanced to our lands a month earlier than I expected, and to me it seems at this point that I will be knocked out unconcious on round three :)

[46852]

I'd love to know why none of my units cast shadow blast like I instructed them to. Or even followed their script at all.

I find communions extremely frustrating most of the time.

Jazzepi

Isn't insanity the trademark of R'Lyeh? Don't expect bunch of creatures who spread insanity to follow your orders :)

[Jazzepi]

Only LA Ry'leh.

Jazzepi

[konming]

My apologies to my opponents. My battles with Vanheim and Ry'leh both executed in ways I had not planned. The problem with Vanheim was that units I had planned on staying left for the battle against Ry'leh. I beleive I would have won had I the critical mass I thought I had.

As for Ry'leh. My apologies. Every scenario I wanted to avoid happened anyhow due to several scripting mistakes and incorrect assumptions. Yet I managed to win, something that shouldn't have happened. I need to rein in that nature three mage who decided to cast Touch of Madness on slingers. I also need to know from now on that astral spells will likely target you mages over the shambler thralls. How embarrassing.

All is well though. I'll take special care these next few rounds. Especially when swapping units from two different provinces. As for Ashodod, well done. I think I've got solution to those sacreds though. Let's round three begin.


I'd love to know why none of my units cast shadow blast like I instructed them to. Or even followed their script at all.

I find communions extremely frustrating most of the time.

Jazzepi

Actually your mages followed order exactly. Only two of your mages were equipped with any death gems (required for shadow blast). Their script was communion master/power of the sphere/shadow blast/shadow blast. But you only gave them 2 death gems, which they used during the first shadow blast.

[konming]

Actually make it three. But the first one died in the first round before he was able to cast any spells.

[JimMorrison]

Meh, I may have jumped the gun on my play-date with Vanheim. 8 \

Somehow, I felt a little rushed, but I dismissed it, as I always feel rushed when starting a war (I think too much). I'm definitely specifying which month a NAP is canceled from now on, so that can be referenced later (for my own use especially!).

8 \

[Calahan]

I don't remember sending out all these party invites?! :confused::confused::confused:

[AreaOfEffect]

I don't remember sending out all these party invites?! :confused::confused::confused:

I invited a few friends to crash. Hope you don't mind.

[Calahan]

I invited a few friends to crash. Hope you don't mind.

Wish you had told me you were bringing some friends with you. Not sure if I'll have enough Chips 'n Dip to go round now :( And I do so want to be known as a good host :D But guess it'll be ok for your mates to come as well, just as long as they -

a) Are house trained.
b) Bring their own drink.
c) Promise not to bring any pets.
d) Don't pinch anything when they leave.

Would all guests to the great Ashdod party, both invited and uninvited, please remember that you are only temporary guests in my home, so kindly have some consideration for those who live here :) And try not to wreck the f&£$ing place! :p

[Deadnature]

Well the soldiers of Ulm are house-trained, but I can't speak for all of these "tribals" that I recruited. :)

[konming]

I think the rules should be:

a) Are weapon or magic trained
b) Bring their own weapon
c) Promise not to bring any souvenir
d) say goodbye when they see Mr. Hudoles leave

:)

[konming]

The monkey nation is selling hammers for 15E each. :)

[46852]

The monkey nation is selling hammers for 15E each. :)

There's a saying for that in english isn't there... monkey business! :)

[Calahan]

Can I please request a 48hr extension of the current turn. I have to go to Greece for a week with work later today, and have no idea if I will have internet/WiFi access while I am there. I might not need the extension if all is good there, but thought I'd better ask now in case I can't access the forums again until the weekend.

@ AoE - Congrats on the win. Very puzzled how it happened though, since on paper that looked like a pretty safe victory to me :confused: Think I'll put it down to a self-abusing mage who likes casting Firecloud on himself! :p

[AreaOfEffect]

Attack Large Monsters. A weakness of Ashdod is that you can easily target their best units. He cast fire cloud to shoo away eagle warriors. I guess a unit with any form of fire resistance is willing to cast that spell on themselves, apparently. I've seen lifeless beings cast cloud of death on themselves before, so it didn't surprise me.

I would like to thank the forces of Man for their troop movement. The retreating commanders of Ashdod will likely not survive without a friendly province nearby.

[konming]

4 capital mage down, ??? to go.

[Calahan]

I love airport internet terminals :)

@ AoE - Yeah, noticed during my fights against Arco that most spells had the annoying habit of always targetting my size 6 guys. My favourite part of our last fight was the antics of my Adon. He started in great fashion by finishing off your Eagle Warriors. Then followed that up well by casting some buffs. Then for the finish he starts charging down the battlefield, all ready to save the day for the good guys :p But then suddenly has second thoughts and is the first guy to high tail it out of there :shock: Personally think he should be stripped of his HoF status for that cowardly act! :D

4 capital mage down, ??? to go.

Well it's turn 34, so the answer is somewhere between 0 and 33-4 :)

[konming]

Monkey nation is looking for more monkey business. Monkeys would like to play with ruby (fire gem). Monkeys have superior quality diamond (air gem) and sapphire (water gem) to trade. Monkeys also found small quantity of other gems but could not identify them. Interested party should contact our import/export agent konming.