MadWar - Game On!

[MadFrancis]

MadWar

Hosted on LlamaServer - PBEM
24 hour turns (quickhost)
Pretenders so far: 12
Max pretenders: 12
Map: Alexander
Mods: Worthy Heroes 1.8
Early Age
Score graphs on
Hall of fame size 15
Magic site frequency 50
Renaming is Allowed
All other settings on default


1. MadFrancis/Niefelheim - Submitted
2. konming/Hinnom - Submitted
3. Rytek/Yomi - Submitted
4. Jazzepe/Tir na n'Og - Submitted
5. Digress/Sauromatia - Submitted
6. ID that should not be/Arcoscephale - Submitted
7. anticipatient/Fomoria - Submitted
8. Deadnature/Abysia - Submitted
9. Kheldron/Helheim - Submitted
10. Zeldor/Lanka - Submitted
11. meister_miagi/Atlantis -Submitted
12. Baalz/R'lyeh or Oceania - Submitted

Alternates
1. Aapeli/Caelum

[JimMorrison]

Damn I'm in too many games already or I'd love to jump in this one, I love Alexander.

Surprised this game isn't full already!

[konming]

Hinnom please.

[Rytek]

I will try Yomi

[MadFrancis]

Alright Rytek, konming, welcome. Only 9 more lucky players to go.

[Jazzepi]

I'll take Tir'Naog. Or however you spell it.

Jazzepi

[Digress]

Sauromatia please - how is it being hosted by the way ?

[MadFrancis]

Jazzepi and Digress you're in. Hosted on LlamaServer. PBEM.

[Digress]

Sounds good - now to get down to designing yet another suboptimal pretender ...

[ID that should not be]

Hello everyone, I've played Dom 3 in solo games for quite a few months and never played a MP game before. A friend just told me a new game is recruiting players here so can I join in? I would like to play Arcoscephale:D

[anticipatient]

I'd like Fomoria please.

[Deadnature]

put me down for Abysia please

[Kheldron]

I'd like to play Hellheim

[Kheldron]

Can you allow renaming please?

[ID that should not be]

As I said I am a newbie and know little about the procedure of PBEM...the game hasn't started yet, right?

[Zeldor]

Crap, I wanted Sauromatia :(

[Natpy]

Can I take Rlyeh?

[meister_miagi]

I'll play Atlantis.

[Zeldor]

Oh, I see also Lanka free, maybe I will give it a try, I should have some free time for a game like that.

[Zeldor]

And could we use just Pretender part of Conceptual Balance Mod? The one that makes pretenders much more balanced, but does not change scales, spells or units.

[Deadnature]

I'm fine with either way, but why not just use the whole package? CBM includes worthy heroes. I would like this but if not, no problem.

[Aapeli]

Ill join with Caelum. Never tried that in mp yet.

[Zeldor]

Deadnature:

I'd be even more happy with whole, but I am not game admin and he is the one thatm akes that decision. But adding at least pretender part would be great, we could see some bigger range of pretenders, not just few overpowered ones.

[Natpy]

I will not play with CBM

[MadFrancis]

Zeldor, sorry. I havn't playede with the CBM yet and have no idea what it changes. I will play around with it though for future games. I can however, change to renaming. That is fine.

Game is full and Ill post it on lamaserver as MadWar. Send in an email with your pretender file attached to (pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net).

[MadFrancis]

Ill join with Caelum. Never tried that in mp yet.

Sorry, we're full. I have you down as an alternate if someone drops out.

[Herode]

As I said I am a newbie and know little about the procedure of PBEM...the game hasn't started yet, right?
The game is still waiting for pretenders and right now, the exact number of pretenders that have been sent is : 0 :D

About PBEM and hosting, you should have a glance at the llamaserver FAQ (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160). Most of the clues you need will be found there. You're welcome to ask if you're still missing some details.

[Zeldor]

MadFrancis:

You are missing a lot, really take a look :) Especially on pretender part.

[MadFrancis]

MadFrancis:

You are missing a lot, really take a look :) Especially on pretender part.

Yeah, so I hear. This is my first MP game though and I wanted to play with what I know best for my first go around. I will start looking into it though.

[Zeldor]

Make sure that starting positions are fair on that map then, it was meant to for more players, so some people may get much more free space than others.

[MadFrancis]

Make sure that starting positions are fair on that map then, it was meant to for more players, so some people may get much more free space than others.

Okay. I think it's pretty balanced, but I'll go over it again.

[MadFrancis]

If most everyone feels the map could use more players to balance it it out better, we could bump it up to fourteebn players. We already have a thirteenth, we'd just need one more. Or we could just go with thirteen players.

[Zeldor]

I think 12 are fine, I prefer maps with a bit more space, that gives more options and makes everyone be in the game a bit longer :)

[konming]

Llamaserver's having problems with its mail server. So everyone needs not worry about pretenders not showing up.

[anticipatient]

Oh dear lord, Zeldor is playing Lanka >_<

[anticipatient]

CBM is way way way way better than vanilla :) But I will play vanilla if I must =]

[anticipatient]

Honestly, though, CBM is better for newbies, because there are SO many useless spells and summons and units and pretenders you have to avoid with vanilla that can actually be used effectively in CBM. Okay, I have said my piece. :)

[MadFrancis]

Niefelheim, Hinnom, Tir na n'Og, Fomoria, Sauromatia
submitted so far ... 7 more to go.

[ID that should not be]

OK i've just submitted my pretender file to the server.

[Zeldor]

I will finish mine in the evening.

[konming]

Alexander map is pretty big for 12 players. 10 land players with 247 land provinces? I think adding two land players will be better, as that brings us to 20 provinces/player, a typical setting for lots of leg rooms. But if recruiting is too much trouble, even 13 players are better than 12.

[Zeldor]

I will vote against increasing number of players, I want to see how it works with more space one time.

[ano]

konming
Also, such setting is a pain for water nations as they get less provinces especially taking into account how water is distributed on Alexander. They'll have hard times, believe me.
IMO it is more fair either to have more land nations or only one water nation

[konming]

konming
Also, such setting is a pain for water nations as they get less provinces especially taking into account how water is distributed on Alexander. They'll have hard times, believe me.
IMO it is more fair either to have more land nations or only one water nation

True. Out of 44 sea provinces, 10 are not connected to main water body, and since EA Oceania is not in play (it can simply crush all other water nations easily and early), I would guess adding 2 players is the wise thing to do. Since we have one on waiting list, and if ano is interested, we shall have our two.

With 12 land players and 2 water players, we have 20.5 province/land player and 17 province(main water part)/water player. Water nations typically get less province/player since they can reasonably expand on land. This map is full of narrow passes. So 20 province is a lot, most people will not find enemy capital within 5 provinces from his capital.

[Kheldron]

That's the third time I try to send my pretender and get no reply whatsoever from llamaserver...?

[MadFrancis]

konming
Also, such setting is a pain for water nations as they get less provinces especially taking into account how water is distributed on Alexander. They'll have hard times, believe me.
IMO it is more fair either to have more land nations or only one water nation

True. Out of 44 sea provinces, 10 are not connected to main water body, and since EA Oceania is not in play (it can simply crush all other water nations easily and early), I would guess adding 2 players is the wise thing to do. Since we have one on waiting list, and if ano is interested, we shall have our two.

With 12 land players and 2 water players, we have 20.5 province/land player and 17 province(main water part)/water player. Water nations typically get less province/player since they can reasonably expand on land. This map is full of narrow passes. So 20 province is a lot, most people will not find enemy capital within 5 provinces from his capital.

This sounds reasonable. I dont mind adding two more. I won't if it will cause people to drop, otherwise I will make room for two more.

[MadFrancis]

That's the third time I try to send my pretender and get no reply whatsoever from llamaserver...?

weirdness ... anyone else having issues?

[MadFrancis]

konming
Also, such setting is a pain for water nations as they get less provinces especially taking into account how water is distributed on Alexander. They'll have hard times, believe me.
IMO it is more fair either to have more land nations or only one water nation

You want in? If yes, who might you play if there are no overriding objections from the rest of the group?

[Zeldor]

Don't count my post as opposition, I'm just happy with current number of players. I will be happy with 1-2 more too.

[ano]

You want in? If yes, who might you play if there are no overriding objections from the rest of the group?
No, I don't, thanks. I'm pretty busy these days and engaged in two big games.
Just posted an opinion.

And one more thing from the previous experience. If you want to make the game really interesting and balanced and don't want someone to win just because he had ton of space to expand to while some other good players were packed in a mountain range, I'd suggest you to manually distribute the starting locations. Yes, this will require some time to do but in the end you'll get much more fun and less disappointment.
I know that because I already hosted 2 games on this map and second one seems to be much more fair in the sense of starting locations and thus requires more skill than luck to play efficiently.

[Kheldron]

I just checked on Llamaserver.net. It hasn't been updated for 6 hours...

[Zeldor]

It may be it's mail server. Well, I will submit pretender tomorrow.

ano:
I said the same and from game admins post I assume he did place all land starting locations for 10 players manually. If not he should do that or ask someone neutral to do that.

[MadFrancis]

I'd suggest you to manually distribute the starting locations. Yes, this will require some time to do but in the end you'll get much more fun and less disappointment.


Yeah, I will. It might be awhile before the game can start anyhow as the server doesn't seem to be accepting email submissions for pretenders.

[anticipatient]

Yeah the last game I got from llamaserver was 6-8 hours ago

[anticipatient]

Ok, the llamaserver seems to be working again. Give it another shot. If that doesn't work, just retry periodically. :)

[konming]

I guess if we are to add one or two players, we should now ask the alternate to submit pretender and maybe change the title to recruit the last player.

[Calahan]

If you're looking for one more player for this game, then I'll chuck my hat in the ring with Mictlan (think they're still available)

If you're not looking for a player (it's not 100% clear from the thread) then no worries and happy gaming to all :-)

[Zeldor]

Ok, my pretender is in. Quite experimental approach, but vanilla really limits pretender choices :(

[MadFrancis]

Game has started.

24 hour turns (quickhost) with longer turns in the later game if everyone agrees it's needed. Good luck all!

[Zeldor]

I submitted revised pretender and 1 minute after that game started, ha!

P.S. I'd trade my starting location with someone else... if it was hand placed someone must really not like Lanka.

[MadFrancis]

if it was hand placed someone must really not like Lanka.


Err ... forgive me if the starts arent very well located. I had my roomate place them (so I wouldn't have any advantages) and didn't look at them. Also this is my very first MP game so i'm still learning. Hope it isn't too bad of a start. Thanks for understanding :o

[ID that should not be]

Ha! I can't care less where my starting location is. As is foretold by an ancient oracle, it is but a matter of time before the splendour of our Golden Age meets its lamentable destiny:angel

[MadFrancis]

Two stales on the second turn? Is there something wrong?

[Deadnature]

Yeah, sorry bout that stale guys...I expectantly couldn't get to a computer yesterday. It really sucks too because I staled on about three games :(

[MadFrancis]

Yeah, sorry bout that stale guys...I expectantly couldn't get to a computer yesterday. It really sucks too because I staled on about three games :(


Ouch, okay. Just wanted to at least know if someone was wanting to drop.

[Deadnature]

Yeah, sorry bout that stale guys...I expectantly couldn't get to a computer yesterday. It really sucks too because I staled on about three games :(


....meant to say UNexpectantly...

[ID that should not be]

Sorry about the stale turn. My house lease expired and I was totally occupied and exhausted by all the packing and cleaning stuff yesterday :sorry:

[Zeldor]

Could we maybe get some experienced neutral player to take a look at starting locations? Especially how far away everyone is from each other, how many neighbours he has and what terrain/pop is in there. I already spotted my neighbour on turn 3 and we are supposed to have 25 provs per player! IF something is not right it is better to restart now instead of dragging unfair game. Just a word of advice.

P.S. I will be back on Wednesday evening, about 18GMT time, I will be able to do the turn unless it quickhosts very fast, in that case please give me few hours to get my turn in.

P.P.S. Should I find a temp sub for 2-3 turns as I am going away for that weekend [thursday-sunday, last summer weekend] or would it be fine with postponing hosting? I think it would be better for the game if I found a sub, but maybe there are other people with plans for that weekend.

[konming]

I have to second that. A province 2 hexes away from my capital is already occupied by aother play who did not exactly have great expansion rate (he took 2 provinces). This map is wrap around in case your roommate did not notice.

[Jazzepi]

I've made several maps before, and I'd be happy to make a new one for this game if you guys wish to start over. It wouldn't be wrap around, though.

Jazzepi

[Kheldron]

Well, if I count right we've got so far :

- 2 players who already and unexpectantly have staled in the first two turns

- 2 others who already have spotted their neighbors on turn 3 while we play on a large map (knowing how many we are for Alexander)

While I'm fairly happy with my starting location, I wouldnt got too far in this game if we collectively feel its setting is unfair.

Without threat, there's no glory in victory !

[konming]

Actually that makes 4 players who spotted their neighbors. Since I did not spot Zeldor's force, and I am pretty sure my neighbor to the south would not be too happy seeing Hinnom's capital 3 hexes away from his. :)

[Zeldor]

I don't think we need new map. First it would be nice to show starting locations to one of the experienced players that are not playing that map. Maybe that starting positions are no as bad as we feel them. If they are bad though it would be faster and better to restart on same map, just with another locations [pretender are submitted, so it is fast process].

[konming]

I actually like the idea the host did in game Standards. The idea was to space players evenly. Therefore the host created a small cluster of provinces for each starting location. Then each player will fit into one of the starting cluster, choosen randomly by computers. This way, starting location quality and spacing are guaranteed to a large degree, without people actually knowing the capital locations from turn 1.

[Jazzepi]

Actually that makes 4 players who spotted their neighbors. Since I did not spot Zeldor's force, and I am pretty sure my neighbor to the south would not be too happy seeing Hinnom's capital 3 hexes away from his. :)

I think I'm the one south of you.

Jazzepi

[konming]

Actually that makes 4 players who spotted their neighbors. Since I did not spot Zeldor's force, and I am pretty sure my neighbor to the south would not be too happy seeing Hinnom's capital 3 hexes away from his. :)

I think I'm the one south of you.

Jazzepi

OK I guessed wrong. Seems you are happy.:)

[MadFrancis]

I'm cool with a restart as long as everyone else is. Jazzepi go ahead and place new starting provinces and if the majority are okay with a restart we will use it. You can email it to me at madfrank@gmail.com if you want.

[Zeldor]

MadFrancis:

contact llamabeast, quantum_mechanic, ironhawk or other good player before so he could take a look. I also think that someone not playing shouldn't put starting locations :) Unless everyone gets to know them too [but who gets where is random].

[Jazzepi]

Actually that makes 4 players who spotted their neighbors. Since I did not spot Zeldor's force, and I am pretty sure my neighbor to the south would not be too happy seeing Hinnom's capital 3 hexes away from his. :)

I think I'm the one south of you.

Jazzepi

OK I guessed wrong. Seems you are happy.:)

I usually despise early wars ;P

Jazzepi

[MadFrancis]

I also think that someone not playing shouldn't put starting locations :) Unless everyone gets to know them too [but who gets where is random].

Someone NOT playing SHOULDN'T place the starts? I'm confused. It seems as if a nuetral, knowledgable player would be the best person to place the starting locations.

Why should we all get to know where starting locations are? As Niefelheim knowing where a start location is at creates a huge advantage (it seems). That's why I had an outside party place them.

Anyway, should I pull the game down and start a new one then? I'll have an experienced player look at the starts and tweak them if need be. Either way let's get it done so we can get this game moving :)!

[konming]

You can just use restart game. But of course that depends on if many people objects. As for Hinnom, we are not detered by bad starting positions, it just means more capitals to conquer. :) But seriously I think a restart would be fair to everyone.

As for the map,you can set a cluster of starting position so no one knows the exact capital location. Yes, Nief may benefit a bit, but then it may find triple blessed jaguar warriors, or poison archers blocked by hydras, or cold immune Ba'als? So it is not like you can just charge and kill the neighbor.

This map is the work of Calahan, you can see the nice clusters of provinces players can start in.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6570&d=1218742581

[Rytek]

Im ok with a restart. Although I can't possibly hope for a better start. 6 provinces neighbor my capitol. All doable with my crappy starting army. Perfect indies to round out some holes in magic. A nice 400g lucky event and a national hero. /cry.

[konming]

I propose the following provinces for starting provinces (if we do get a restart):

Land: 130 94 16 37 15 77 97 202 218 237
Sea 281 236

I would link 7 to 265, and 229 to 251. This way, we add 9 provinces to continous sea and level the playing field for sea players.

[konming]

All capitals are 5 or more hexes away. Except sea provinces, They all have 5-6 neighbors.

[MadFrancis]

I propose the following provinces for starting provinces (if we do get a restart):

Land: 130 94 16 37 15 77 97 202 218 237
Sea 281 236

I would link 7 to 265, and 229 to 251. This way, we add 9 provinces to continous sea and level the playing field for sea players.

Sounds good, Ill start on that.

[konming]

I rechecked and made some corrections, 97->122 (it had 7 neighbors), 202->197 (it had 4). I will see if I can make it zones instead of single province. I will modify the map file and post here so we can test to see if it is OK.

[MadFrancis]

Sounds great. Trying to edit a map for another game right now and sucking it up ... can't seem to keep the computer from stacking players ontop of each other in the same province.

[konming]

You may have too few valid starting positions.

[MadFrancis]

Is there a minimum number? Its for an 11 player game and I am setting 11 starting points.

[anticipatient]

That's kind of frustrating. Oh well.

A big part of why I'm playing this game is the map. I'd strongly prefer to play the same map again.

[Zeldor]

Erase that not from my post :P Stupid mistake...

[PashaDawg]

Howdy!

There is a version of the map with predefined start positions that are randomly assigned. Are they not working properly? Or, perhaps, they were assuming a higher number of players. Each capital would be at least 3 provinces away from another. :)

Pasha

[konming]

That one was for late period and I think for 18 nations. Since we have only 12, I am working on one that is good for 12 players.

[konming]

Here is the map file I suggested. Starting locations are:

Land: 130 94 16 37 15 77 122 197 218 237
Sea 281 236

To give sea nation more balanced playground, 7 and 265, 229 and 251, 36 and 275 are linked. This way, sea nations can expect around 20 provinces/player in the continous water body. You can start a game on this and inspect the starting locations. I welcome any suggestions.

[MadFrancis]

Well, my game admin password is no longer valid for some reason and the game is listed as an invalid age.

I'll start a new game I guess, but we'll have to resubmit pretenders. Not really sure why my passwaord is suddenly not working.

MadWarAlexander

[MadFrancis]

Alright ... I think I'm missing something. The .map file you gave me does not seem to be recognized by the server as a valid file.

I've been having the same problem with other maps I've been trying to use for other games.

[konming]

Since llama is coming back today, it probably would be better to send him a PM and let him correct the problems. This look certainly like a bug. Another game already encountered the problem.

[MadFrancis]

Ah good. I thought I was just being incredibly inept. As it turns out i've only been marginally so. I guess we'll just send him a PM then.

[Deadnature]

yeah, I've encountered this in a game before too. I think we ended up having to start a new game.

IMHO the new map seems good.

[konming]

I want to clarify that the image I posted some posts ago is just an example how you cluster the starting position. It is not used in this game at all.

[ID that should not be]

I am fine with the starting location, but the server seems to have problems with the 2h file I submitted for the 4th turn and I can't find out why. I would be happy if the current game gets restarted:)

[PashaDawg]

That one was for late period and I think for 18 nations. Since we have only 12, I am working on one that is good for 12 players.

Hi:

Just in case you did not know, I updated the map last month (July) to add a few more no-start provinces and to add optional preset starting positions that are randomly assigned. It's not specific to any era. 16 land, 3 water. (Also, if you downloaded the map a long time ago, then you might want to download again to make sure all the province terrains are properly assigned. I am pretty sure the Llamaserver has the latest version.)

Given that you have 12 players, my starting positions might give a few players unfair advantages. So, it's good that Konming is customizing the starting positions.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37295

Thanks for using the map! :)

Pasha

[ano]

Natpy(R'lyeh) is out of the city now and I was subbing for him a bit. Now he asked me to tell that he probably won't play again if the game is restarted in the nearest days.

[anticipatient]

ID that could not be, I think it has a problem with the turn file because the game got restarted. :)

[llamabeast]

Hrm. This game was all messed up due to some bug that reared its head while I was away. I just fixed it, but also accidentally started it - sorry about that. If you want you can restart it again.

[ano]

Anyway R'lyeh won't play so probably it is better to stop it once again if anyone has interest in it.

[Zeldor]

I am going away tomorrow morning, so I NEED to know pretty much NOW if I need temp sub for first 3 turns or if game will start on let's say Monday.

[konming]

Well, R'lyeh is not playing again, should we seek a replacement? And we used the old map again? Only this time I switch position with Jazzepi. :(

[Kheldron]

I'll assume we will restart this one?
Shall we wait on Rlyeh ? Does he plan to play on return or not?

Anyway, I don't think we'll find a sub for him in the next few hours so we might as well wait for Zeldor to come back and see then.
Most games last months so a few days to ensure we play on a better ground are nothing to me...

[Baalz]

I'll sub if you want, though I won't be able to submit a pretender until tonight.

[Zeldor]

As game is restarted all pretender should be in. Otherwise game would not start. Just starting locations got changed.

[Baalz]

Ah, cool. Well just let me know if you want a sub or not.

[konming]

I guess we need a sub. There are two problems with current situations:

1) We restart to get a balanced starting position, but the game restarted without uploading a new map. We NEED to restart again, no one send in their turns.

2) From the above reeading I guess R'lyeh wants out. If confirmed by ano, we will welcome Baalz in as R'lyeh or Oceania. :)

[Zeldor]

If we start now I'd need a sub for 3-4 days [I get back on Sunday evening], so if that situation occurs and you could help it would be great :)

[MadFrancis]

Okay. Game has been restarted. Unfortunately it has invalidated my admin password so I cannot try and upload the new map. I have sent a PM to LlamaBeast and am waiting on his response.

As far as I am concerned Baalz may play either R'lyeh or Oceania as a substitute for Ano. We also either need to wait until Sunday to start for Zeldor or find a sub for a few days. After that I believe we are good to go.

Did I miss anything?

[Digress]

1) We restart to get a balanced starting position, but the game restarted without uploading a new map. We NEED to restart again, no one send in their turns.


Do we need an updated map - have any map links been altered ? Provinces added ?

[konming]

See my post herehttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=634096&postcount=94

[MadFrancis]

1) We restart to get a balanced starting position, but the game restarted without uploading a new map. We NEED to restart again, no one send in their turns.


Do we need an updated map - have any map links been altered ? Provinces added ?

I have the updated map. Just waiting to be allowed to upload it.

[Zeldor]

I am pretty sure we won't need the new .map file, just server needs it.

[konming]

It would be good for you guys to download and test it. So we can better balance the starting positions.

[ID that should not be]

OK now I am all confused...Do we have a second restart? is the second game still going on? No need for re-submitting pretender files and downloading new maps?:confused::confused:

[konming]

There is something wrong with the restart script in Llamaserver. Llama is conducting test on it so no one should worry. When he finds the bug and fixes the script, then everything will be fine. Replacement player will then send in pretender and game will restart.

As for map file, remember we did restart to get balanced starting point. We are still playing on the same alexander map, just (hopeful) well balanced starting locations. You can see all the starting locations in a previous post of mine. And your comments is greatly welcome.

[Kheldron]

I've started a game to test your map Konming and starting positions seem quite balanced to me.
The only one who may have a tiny advantage would be the player starting on 122. He may quite easily secure the mountain range surrounding him IMO as there are very few breakthrough but that's a problem of this map not your starting positions I think.

[llamabeast]

Okay, all is well again, MadWar is fixed and the map is uploaded (remember to change the map before you start the game!). Sorry about the hiccups.

[Baalz]

So is it possible for me to upload my own pretender? I'm guessing by default llamaserver is going to reject me as I'm coming from a different email addy....

[Rytek]

Baalz,
I am wondering if you get ganged up upon in alot of the games you join because of your high profile on these boards?

I still remember a quote you said last year which makes me chuckle every time i think of it:

"Why is it I(Baalz playing sauromatia) choke on everything I try to eat(me in my first game playing Argatha) while ULM (Miach) dines in luxury."
LoL

[MadFrancis]

Alright. Everything seems to be working well. The server is going to be down for a few days starting the 30th apparently. I am thinking of just waiting for it to come back up before starting it. Unless everyone wants to get a jump on the first couple of turns before then.

[MadFrancis]

So is it possible for me to upload my own pretender? I'm guessing by default llamaserver is going to reject me as I'm coming from a different email addy....

Go ahead and email your pretender in. I have deleted the previous R'lyeh pretender.

[Baalz]

Baalz,
I am wondering if you get ganged up upon in alot of the games you join because of your high profile on these boards?

I still remember a quote you said last year which makes me chuckle every time i think of it:

"Why is it I(Baalz playing sauromatia) choke on everything I try to eat(me in my first game playing Argatha) while ULM (Miach) dines in luxury."
LoL

Unfortunately yes, though I also get the flip side and have a +10 to my bluff and intimidate rolls in negotiations. ;) The worst was in Epic Heroes II (which I based my Eriu guide on) my initial attack went so well I moved right on to attacking neighbor 2 ridiculously fast....at which point no less than 6 people ganged up on me (counting the 2 I attacked)! This was in year two and I wasn't even 50% larger than second place. Heh, good times....

[Zeldor]

Ok, so what are we waiting for now?

[MadFrancis]

Game has been started. Good luck all (unless you took misfortune, then it serves you right ;))

[Kheldron]

Well I took misfortune and it clearly rocked the boat as I've got a far worse starting location than earlier :-/

It's not one of those I saw in the map of Konming though. Didn't we use it?

[Zeldor]

Hmm... are you sure? I didn't check if mine was proper [but it looks much much better than previous one].

[MadFrancis]

It's not one of those I saw in the map of Konming though. Didn't we use it?


As far as i know we did. I never actually uploaded it myself, Llama did. However, I am fairly certain he used the attachment that konming provided all of us in his post.

[llamabeast]

Yup yup, I did.

[konming]

Kind of strange my modified map was used but the starting locations was not used. Maybe special starting location was not used? Anyway, if someone's map position is extremely bad, he or she can have my position. ;)

[anticipatient]

Sh-t. I broke 4/5 of my LCD computer screen. :o/ Smashed. White, black and pink. No good. I can't run dom3 on any other computer at the moment, so the 10 or 11 games I'm in need subs :( I'm really sorry. Hopefully it'll be temporary (anyone know if it's possible to replace monitors on laptops?)

Okay, I go to post on the next game =(

[archaeolept]

I pmed madfrancis - i'll sub for anti in this game until he gets a replacement monitor

[anticipatient]

Ok, so I've figured out a way to limp by until I get a replacement monitor working, and I can continue playing. Sorry about the fuss :)

[Zeldor]

Someone stop Hinnom!

[konming]

Yeah, right, coming from Lanka, who is taking 6 provinces per turn. Or is it 7? Now think all the things Lanka can do with Mandaha and co.

[anticipatient]

I'd like to share with everyone that playing as Fomoria, I royally f*ed up one turn and have staled twice . . . Konming, playing as Hinnom, is my neighbor.

He will have two capitals soon. If you are near him, declare war on him. He is, in his words, "in mad war, a bloodthirsty nation."

Besides, I'm annoyed that I've been making such crappy starts every time I'm his neighbor, and I want to see him get his *** kicked. But seriously, he's going to dominate this game faster than you can say Hinnom if some serious multilateral action doesn't happen soon.

[Baalz]

HINNOM EATS EVERYTHING- I said it because I mean it. I'd take Anti's suggestion seriously, there's not a one of us (or probably even two) who could stand up to him and he's not gonna get any easier to fight as his research and blood economy scale up...

[Zeldor]

Cowardous nation of Arcoscephale will pay for attack on noble nation of Lanka. And price is total annihilation.

[konming]

Cowardous nation of Arcoscephale will pay for attack on noble nation of Lanka. And price is total annihilation.

You do not need to make an excuse for your land grab. Arco has staled 3 times already and is on the verge of extinct, likely thanks to Lanka's aggression. You will soon be No.1 in province and control 2 capitals, so be aware of the multilateral actions on you. :)

[Zeldor]

konming:

Staled? He attacked me with huge army first. He didn't even give me a chance to attack him first!

And Lanka powers are nothing compared to what Hinnom can field. And he can do it with good scales, without a need for any bless.

[konming]

In megagame, Hinnom was eliminated early by Lanka. That should tell you something. And Arco did stale for 3 turns, you can check the log.

[Zeldor]

Actually in Kingmaker Hinnom was eliminated by Lanka + Kailasa + LA Midgard. 3 nations, not 1. And Hinnom player did some mistakes.

[Kheldron]

I'll be out of town tomorrow and won't be able to connect until tuesday evening GMT+1. I just sent my turn but would like a delay until then for the next one if possible.

[konming]

Is Llamaserver's email account full? Since it replies to all my emails with this:


I received an e-mail from you, but unfortunately encountered a problem:

Your e-mail had no pretender file attached.

You need to attach your pretender file, which will have a name along the lines of "mid_machaka_0.2h" (obviously depending on the age and nation). This file should be in your Dominions directory, in "savedgames\newlords". If you can't find it, make sure you created your god by using "Game Tools" and then "Create a Pretender God" from the main Dominions menu.

Details of your e-mail:
Subject: Mail Delivery Failure
Sent at: XXXXXXX
Attachments: None

[archaeolept]

yah there's a problem w/ it accessing the mail server - hosting times have been put forward till tuesday. hopefully this gets resolved quickly, though llama is away on holiday ;p

[MadFrancis]

Hi all. I had a bit of bad luck concerning my internet over the last four days, and have not been able to access my emails or the internet. Sorry for any unfortunates that may have happened while I was unreachable. Comcast "promises" that it shouldn't happen again, but of course, what do they care. ;)

In any case, I am just going to try and pick up where I left off. If anyone sent me a PM and I have not repsonded, it's probably because I had a ton in my inbox when I got home from work this evening and found my internet working again. I am trying to repsond to everyone, but please if I dont, resend me anything, important or not.

Thanks and sorry for the disruption if any has been caused. Now to try and salvage a game that has staled four times ...:doh:

[konming]

Good to see you back, MadFrancis. :) Anyway Llamaserver is down for all meaningful purposes, so the game will be suspended until he comes back on 20.

[Digress]

I will need an extension of 24 hours to get my turn in. Am out of town without a computer (more accurately a copy of dominions) until tomorrow.

Will PM MadFrancis and will resend to .2h file the moment I get home.

[MadFrancis]

24 hours granted (about 10 PM PST).

[Digress]

Turn submitted (Sauromatia). Thanks for the extension everyone.

[Rytek]

I am at a loss what to do diplomatically this game. If the smaller nations make an alliance, who do they ally against? The hugely big Lanka or insane Hinomin? Seems to me if an alliance is formed to take one of them down, the other will just dominate. What to to other than wait for one of them to come for dinner?

[Baalz]

Turtle in the water?

[Rytek]

Ooops. Looks like Lanka wants Yomi for dinner. Yomi is gonna need some help or Lanka will have his next dinner for free.

[Zeldor]

Your Dragon was tasty,

[Rytek]

Yomi is looking to trade for Amulets of magic resistance, Lucky amulets, and robes of etherealness. Help out a smaller nation being swamped by Lanka.

[Zeldor]

Lanka is buying gems. 20 gold per one [10 for blood slave].

[konming]

Actually Hinnom is paying 25 gold per gem. And we need all sorts of gems. :)

[Kheldron]

Shouldnt we turn Fomoria and Arcoscephale to AI ?
They've got 0 or 1 province left and have staled the last 4-5 turns so I don't see the point of waiting for their turns...

[Zeldor]

That's what I suggested in PM to game admin. Especially that he is fighting Fomoria, so a bit unfair position.

[MadFrancis]

Will do.

[Kheldron]

I may have need of a short extension this week-end as I'm out of town until sunday evening. I already submitted my turn but depending on when it hosts...
GMT+1 here.

[MadFrancis]

Was waiting for a PM containing actual details of the extension. I'm assuming you didn't need it.

[MadFrancis]

Do not trust the traitorous Helheim. After agreeing upon borders and signing a NAP, it took them only one season to break their word without any warning or provocation. A warning to all. Helheim cannot be trusted and has no honor.

-The Niefel Jarls

[Zeldor]

I've heard a bit different stories.

P.S. I won't object 48h hosting. Yomi just does not want to die instantly.

[MadFrancis]

P.S. I won't object 48h hosting. Yomi just does not want to die instantly.

If a majority is in favor, I'll change to 48 hour turns.

[Kheldron]

When did I *ever* attack you ???
The only lands I took after we had our NAP were independants you *never* claimed before, or after for that matter.
Not only that but you didn't even take time to ask for these lands or even tell me you didn't agree on my taking them.
No, you just stood mute like the other time when we blundered into each other.
Must I remind you you were the one to ask for a NAP after leaving your troops without orders for 4 months when I could have attacked you at any time and didn't ?

Do not trust the traitorous Helheim. After agreeing upon borders and signing a NAP, it took them only one season to break their word without any warning or provocation. A warning to all. Helheim cannot be trusted and has no honor.


-The Niefel Jarls

[Rytek]

P.S. I won't object 48h hosting. Yomi just does not want to die instantly.

:D You should always chew your food before eating it, lest you choke on it.

[MadFrancis]

When did I *ever* attack you ???
The only lands I took after we had our NAP were independants you *never* claimed before, or after for that matter.
Not only that but you didn't even take time to ask for these lands or even tell me you didn't agree on my taking them.
No, you just stood mute like the other time when we blundered into each other.
Must I remind you you were the one to ask for a NAP after leaving your troops without orders for 4 months when I could have attacked you at any time and didn't ?

Do not trust the traitorous Helheim. After agreeing upon borders and signing a NAP, it took them only one season to break their word without any warning or provocation. A warning to all. Helheim cannot be trusted and has no honor.


-The Niefel Jarls

Its not our fault the helheims don't understand the meaning of the word "border". Your people will choke on their own stupidity.

[Jazzepi]

Every time I try to play my turn it just says "file corrupted" Or something to that tune. Can I get an extension to try ot figure this out?

Jazzepi

[MadFrancis]

Okay. I just got this and the turn just flipped.as no one has turned in a new turn I am going to rollback to last turn and postpone until I hear from jazzepi that he's a go.

[Kheldron]

that's bad.
Is there a way to ensure noone remake his orders knowing what happened?

[Rytek]

OH, I totally protest this rollback. I totally defeated Lanka's attack on my fort. I have suffered for the past 5 turns funneling troops into this fort to surprise him. And now he just got a free scouting report of how I am going to whip his butt. He surely wont attack now.

[Zeldor]

I think I should put real army on you at last. I must admit I underestimated Yomi a bit. But I agree - there should be no rollbacks unless really necessary. And if it's rerolled I won't change my turn to be fair [even though I had lost some troops I really liked].

P.S. Rytek, maybe you could just sell me that fort? :)

[konming]

One thing we can do, of course, is to let TNO send in his turn, and no one else send in theirs. This can be easily verified in the status page as TNO shows "2h receive" and others show "waiting for 2h". Llamaserver still retains old 2h file from everyone for turn 27 so no one should stale, nor change their turns, for that matter.

However, the status page in Llamaserver still shows turn 28. I wonder if the rollback was indeed successful.

[Zeldor]

Hmm... yeah, it looks like it rolled back and rehosted with JAzzepis turn, but didn't send new trn files. I wonder if we can submit old ones or should request resends.

[konming]

I requested a resend, and I got turn 27. So I guess we just need Jazzepi to submit his turn and MadFrancis can force host.

[Zeldor]

Nah, it won't accept files for turn 27.

[konming]

Then Llamabeast needs to manually adjust the turn number to 27.

[Jazzepi]

I'm still getting the "turn file corrupted" error :(

Jazzepi

[MadFrancis]

Whatever you all want. I realized the problems with rollbacks, but I also thought it unfair that a bug should force you to stale.

[konming]

Yeah, I have no problem with roll back, I doubt Abysia will, since he will get the same result anyway. :)

[Deadnature]

No problem here...

[Kheldron]

Has anyone found a solution for it? or contacted llamaserver?
I say that because I wouldn't have this game dead just because we let it slip...

Next hosting is due in a few hours and we still don't know where we stand afaik.

[Zeldor]

Huh, I am now getting that:

"Sorry, this isn't a real game. Have you been messing with my URL?"

You should PM llamabeast to get that fixed.

[Xietor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

[Rytek]

I must be getting slow in my old age. It took me about 5 seconds to figure out WTH that was all about.

[Jazzepi]

You know, turn 28 works fine for me. I'll just eat the stale instead of holding everyone up. It's not a big deal.

Let's just host on through to 28.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

I've just fixed the turn de-synching. You're now correctly listed as being on turn 27. Sorry about the delay there.

[llamabeast]

By the way, if you don't submit a new 2h file for turn 27 then it will just use the last one. So none of you should submit new turns apart from whoever had the bug or whatever it was. Then the admin should force hosting. You can see whether people have changed their orders because if they haven't it will say "Waiting for 2h file" (even though it has their 2h file from last time).

[Deadnature]

ok, so none of us re-submit except....

[llamabeast]

I don't know, because I don't know why you rolled back in the first place. :)

[Deadnature]

that wasn't a sarcastic "thank you" BTW :)

I appreciate the attention that you pay to seemingly every game.

[Rytek]

Looks like Lanka resubmitted. Must be nice to get a free pass on losing your army.

[Jazzepi]

Looks like Lanka resubmitted. Must be nice to get a free pass on losing your army.

You guys should just roll forward to turn 28 if possible.

Jazzepi

[Deadnature]

I agree, lets just roll forward

[konming]

There is not an option to roll forward, however, I guess Llamaserver still retains all the files for turn 28. Therefore, we need MadFrancis to PM Llamabeast to roll the turn forward.

[Baalz]

Nah, the game admin can just force hosting, no need to bug llamabeast.

[konming]

Someone already posted turn, we would not want that to change anything...

[Deadnature]

I agree, we should strive to have the same turn as we had before if possible.

[Jazzepi]

Nah, the game admin can just force hosting, no need to bug llamabeast.

Lanka submitted a turn though. No way to tell if he changed anything.

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

Huh, yeah, should I check my mail archives to find old turn? Just changed one thing, but kept all orders at Yomi the same [so my army will be slaughtered trying to siege his fort].

[Kheldron]

yes we should all have the same old turn

[Zeldor]

Rytek:

Hmm... what did you change with your turn? Attack on 87? Cause smth stopped my storming of your fort [I can even let llamabeast check my .2h file to check if storm orders were there, but I changed nothing]

[Rytek]

Rytek:

Hmm... what did you change with your turn? Attack on 87? Cause smth stopped my storming of your fort [I can even let llamabeast check my .2h file to check if storm orders were there, but I changed nothing]


I changed nothing.
I have to say that I was really enjoying this game even though I am a huge underdog. It really looks like you took the oppurtunity to change your turn. And that is just a shame. I will be looking for a replacement. I don't consider myself a spoil sport. And I fight losing positions down to my last tooth and nail as Baalz can attest to as with my first MP game as EA Argatha I fought him down to my last capitol province last year. But, I refuse to spend hours of my time and play with a cheater. And unfortunately, thats what it looks like to me. I apologize if you did not cheat, but without evidence-- the proof is there. You attacked first time and had your army take 80% casulties. After rollback no attack...

[Zeldor]

Rytek:

For me some values are more important than victory. Name a compensation and you will get it. I can give you my nation to play if you'd want. I don't evade consequences of bad moves [and storming your fort was one]. PM me if you prefer that way.

[Kheldron]

As much as I hate to bug Llamabeast again and again after all he's already done for us, I find it hard to go on without knowing the truth of it. An accusation of cheating is as bad as it can get for the fun of a game. And without fun...

[llamabeast]

Okay. Unfortunately Zeldor seems to have accidentally cancelled his storming orders. I've known him long enough to be sure it was an accident, and anyway it would have been the stupidest cheat in the world because it was so obvious. So just a bit unfortunate I'd say. So anyway, I've rolled back _again_. Unfortunately I can't host back forward to turn 28 because I can't find Tir na n'Og's 2h file. Maybe it was never received.

Anyway, MadFrancis, I've postponed the turn so Jazzepi has plenty of time to get his turn in. When you come to force host it, please make sure no-one else has submitted a 2h file. If they have, let me know and I'll just swap it back for the one they were using before.

[Rytek]

I will take your word for it. I am back in. No hard feelings. Accidental and overlooked orders have happened to me enough to know that it does happend. I apologize for my strong use of the word "cheat". I was astounded at how blantent the action was. And Zeldor must have a strong reputation because I was the one called to question several times.
Anyway, back to having fun. And to looking forward to sticking my finger in the eye of the beast that is Lanka...

[Kheldron]

cheers :)

[Zeldor]

Huh, well, sorry for that. My offer to you Rytek is still valid - you can take over my nation, Lanka is not my favourite one. [sending turn with storm orders that turn]

[konming]

Hmmm, didn't llamabeast say no one but TNO send in a turn? Why did Lanka send in a turn again?

[Kheldron]

I would say he had to if he wanted to storm that fort again.

[Jazzepi]

Okay. Unfortunately Zeldor seems to have accidentally cancelled his storming orders. I've known him long enough to be sure it was an accident, and anyway it would have been the stupidest cheat in the world because it was so obvious. So just a bit unfortunate I'd say. So anyway, I've rolled back _again_. Unfortunately I can't host back forward to turn 28 because I can't find Tir na n'Og's 2h file. Maybe it was never received.

Anyway, MadFrancis, I've postponed the turn so Jazzepi has plenty of time to get his turn in. When you come to force host it, please make sure no-one else has submitted a 2h file. If they have, let me know and I'll just swap it back for the one they were using before.

I can't submit my turn! My host file is corrupted D:

Just host the game to the next turn. One that doesn't have any problems.

Jazzepi

[Rytek]

Huh, well, sorry for that. My offer to you Rytek is still valid - you can take over my nation, Lanka is not my favourite one. [sending turn with storm orders that turn]
Apology accepted. Don't be silly, I don't want your position. I enjoy playing underdog nations more than powerhouses like Lanka or Hinnom.

Honestly, the biggest thing I am bent about was that I lost my 18 N gem random event from the first go around. And of course I was enjoying the fact that you were underestimating the Oni kings. Sadly, both are gone now.

[Kheldron]

I can't submit my turn! My host file is corrupted D:

Just host the game to the next turn. One that doesn't have any problems.

Jazzepi


All that for that and we only have our eyes to cry or our mouth to laugh like madmen...

Anyway, MadFrancis can now host and we can only pray for the battles to end the same and fate to be kind on us ;)

[Rytek]

Sigh. Ok, Now you changed your combat orders for your troops. You placed your Demons way up instead of having them back like before. You set your archers to fire on large creatures instead of fire archers. The outcome was nearly the same on your side. You still lost 80%. But firing large creatures netted you a few of the snake sorcerers I had mixed in with my Oni kings. 5 to be exact. Where you didnt get them before. But, whatever.

[Zeldor]

afaik archers were not scripted at all, I think that on replay your mages got trampled by routing elephants

[konming]

I was suggesting we use the original turn 28 file, but whatever. Still I wonder why Lanka had to send in a new turn file. The original 2h was there. Even without changing combat orders, other things can be changed to advantages, like remote site searching. Also it looks like Lanka grabbed one more province than old turn 28? Maybe random events?

[Rytek]

I do have the old file to compare to you know.
First fight your Demons are back---Right along side the archers. First fight I figured you would do this as every fight we have had your demons are back. The Gorilla longbows fire at my armored shortbows on my right flank. I placed my elephants in front and set to charge out the gate because I guessed(correctly the first fight) that they would make it out and your demons would slaghter them with your quickness bless and none would get away to trample my rear.

The second fight your longbows are definetly shooting into my rear ranks where I put the Oni kings. Fire large monster. And there is no question on this---you moved your demons up and set them to charge first round. Thus stuffing my elephants in the gate.
Since I do not want to do this AGAIN. Lanka, your penance shall be sending YOMI 1000 Gold (Thats 5 snake sorcers) AND 9N gems(Thats half of my special event which you had nothing to do with. You can think of it as punitive measure) Mess your orders up once and its an accident. Change them again and things are really smelling fishy.
Or, you can beg Llammabeast to rollback and then host with the original turn files.

[Jazzepi]

I do have the old file to compare to you know.
First fight your Demons are back---Right along side the archers. First fight I figured you would do this as every fight we have had your demons are back. The Gorilla longbows fire at my armored shortbows on my right flank. I placed my elephants in front and set to charge out the gate because I guessed(correctly the first fight) that they would make it out and your demons would slaghter them with your quickness bless and none would get away to trample my rear.

The second fight your longbows are definetly shooting into my rear ranks where I put the Oni kings. Fire large monster. And there is no question on this---you moved your demons up and set them to charge first round. Thus stuffing my elephants in the gate.
Since I do not want to do this AGAIN. Lanka, your penance shall be sending YOMI 1000 Gold (Thats 5 snake sorcers) AND 9N gems(Thats half of my special event which you had nothing to do with. You can think of it as punitive measure) Mess your orders up once and its an accident. Change them again and things are really smelling fishy.
Or, you can beg Llammabeast to rollback and then host with the original turn files.

Uh-oh. I smell cheatzor.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

Rytek, can you provide some screenshots, or video of the battles side by side?

Jazzepi

[konming]

OK, I take back my words. Indeed if no 2h was sent in, the 2h from last time was used (in Lanka's case, modified 2h file with no castle assault). Anyway, I wonder if Llamaserver keeps the original turn 28 files. That would be the best and most fair one to use.

To turn back turn again to 27 then force host solves nothing, since it is the most recent version of 2h that is used.

[Rytek]

umm, I really am a dunce when it comes to screen shots and videos. I suppose I could email the two different 2h files to someone and have them take a look---- it really is plain as day that the orders were changed. I looked again. Actually, his sacred demons start BEHIND his longbows on hold and attack orders in the first fight.

On the second fight all his sacreds are crowded right up into the entrece with attack orders.

[Kheldron]

oh please, not AGAIN.
I'm tired of all these unannounced rollbacks :doh:

[llamabeast]

When you come to force host it, please make sure no-one else has submitted a 2h file. If they have, let me know and I'll just swap it back for the one they were using before.

Aaaagh! This game is getting ridiculous!

Right, I am going to roll back yet again, then force host with the original 2h files, then you can all get back to normal.

[llamabeast]

Apologies, I had typed that post but forgotten to hit "Reply" when I did the rollback.

All should be good and back to normal now.

This does almost make me wonder if I should remove the rollback option. Because it always seems like a good idea, and rarely is. Still, I suppose it is genuinely useful from time to time, so I will leave it in.

[Jazzepi]

Just slap some google goggles on that page.

http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-in-labs-stop-sending-mail-you-later.html

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Genius.

[Baalz]

Apologies, I had typed that post but forgotten to hit "Reply" when I did the rollback.

All should be good and back to normal now.

This does almost make me wonder if I should remove the rollback option. Because it always seems like a good idea, and rarely is. Still, I suppose it is genuinely useful from time to time, so I will leave it in.

I can't remember a rollback that went well. Even under the best circumstances, somebody get frustrated because they got a good random event the first time, or a lucky break in a battle. In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and say I think every rollback I've been involved in ended up making the game worse off than if we had just gone forward without it, by the logic that we're all just playing this game for fun so the worst thing we can do is piss people off, make people think they were treated unfairly, etc.

[Rytek]

Thankyou Llammabeast for taking the time to fix this.

This had nothing to do with me being upset about a rollback. Yes, I had a better combat the first go around, and yes I had a super nifty Gem event the first go around. But I am reasonable and realize game host was trying to help Jazzeppi when it wasnt really his fualt for missing his turn.

This had everything to do with Zeldor changing his orders. Twice.

Anyway, lets continue with the game.

[konming]

Looks like Jazzepi is about to stale again. I wonder if the new turn is also corrupt?

[Jazzepi]

I rarely stale on time, but I take as much as I'm given when I need to.

Jazzepi

[konming]

My apologies. :) Just wondering if the new turn was bad again.

[Jazzepi]

Don't worry, if nothing else, I know how to complain LOUDLY :rant::rant:

Jazzepi

[Kheldron]

lol

[llamabeast]

Postponed by 24 hours at Konming's request.

[MadFrancis]

Postponed by 24 hours at Konming's request.


yeah, what he said.

[MadFrancis]

speaking of which ... who wants to admin now, I am nearly out of the game.

[Baalz]

I can admin, just PM me the pass.

[MadFrancis]

I can admin, just PM me the pass.


right-o.

[Zeldor]

Could I get 24h more for that turn? We have national holiday in Poland today.

[Zeldor]

I meant for previous turn, Baalz :) I managed to did it fast, I don't need 24h more for next turn.

[Baalz]

Alright, Tyrant is taking over R'yleh for me, who can admin now?

[Kheldron]

I can admin Baalz.