Movement priority

[Beorne]

Army A moves from conquered province 1 on land to enemy province 2 on land.
Army B moves from conquered province 3 on water to enemy province 1 on land.

Who moves first?

For what I know the result should be random or quasi random. Is ths randomness affected by some factors like the size of the army or the water-land border?

Thanks.

[ano]

Nothing random here. They will never meet because normal movement occurs simultaneously unless they are moving to the same hostile province or towards each other

[Beorne]

Hey, playing for four years and learning this now ... thanks.

[Herode]

Hmmm, are you sure ? I don't remember any simultaneous moves in the game, I often saw such things as army B attacking and blocking army A (and more often if B is AI).

[thejeff]

If A attacks B and B attacks A, most likely one army will not move, both will fight in one of the provinces.
But if A attacks B and C attacks A, army A will always have left before army C arrives.

[BesucherXia]

A side question:
Something regarding movement from this changelog have caught my eyes:
http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html

20th july
* Improved move order validation.

Has anyone idea what it could exactly mean?

[chrispedersen]

Nothing random here. They will never meet because normal movement occurs simultaneously unless they are moving to the same hostile province or towards each other

This is not true.

The chances of an intercept have to do with the size of the territory, and the size of the armies, among other things.

There is an entire tactic using commanders / scouts to intercept or prevent an enemy province.


1 --> 2
1 <-- 2

Several possibilities... Combat in 1, combat in 2, or they miss each other entirely and switch territories.

[AreaOfEffect]

In my experience, missing a confrontation between two armies heading for each other only happens when one of them flies. One should be careful to observe the means by which an army moves. Sailing and flying may very well act differently then normal movement.

[konming]

In my experience, missing a confrontation between two armies heading for each other only happens when one of them flies. One should be careful to observe the means by which an army moves. Sailing and flying may very well act differently then normal movement.

That is not true. In a game I am playing, my SC with attacked an enemy's province, while his mage with some calvaries counterattacked. Both armies are regular foot movement type. They bypass each other and fought in their destinations respectively.

[AreaOfEffect]

That is not true. In a game I am playing, my SC with attacked an enemy's province, while his mage with some calvaries counterattacked. Both armies are regular foot movement type. They bypass each other and fought in their destinations respectively.

Well, I did start by saying "in my experience". :) I do however believe that flying increases the chance of a bypass. Size of respective armies may also play a roll and would explain the case you described.

[Ming]

My experience is as follows:

Situation One:
A1-> B2 (player A in province 1 moving to province 2 owned by player B)
B2-> A1

Possible outcomes are a) battle in 1; b) battle in 2; c) both armies remain at their province; d) A end up in 2 and B end up in 1.

Antidotal evidence suggest that d) is very unlikely under normal circumstances. Virtually all (but may not be 100%) occurrence that I can remember have either one army having flight or stealth (but moving normally), or one army being very small.

Situation Two:
A1 -> B3
B2 -> A1

In my experience battles do sometimes occur at province 1. However, on those occasions that I can remember B has a castle at province 1. So it is possible that for movement purposes province 1 might still be considered to be owned by B (hence B moves before A). Nevertheless, I think a more likely answer is that movement order in this situation is random.

[Lingchih]

My experience is as follows:

Situation One:
A1-> B2 (player A in province 1 moving to province 2 owned by player B)
B2-> A1

Possible outcomes are a) battle in 1; b) battle in 2; c) both armies remain at their province; d) A end up in 2 and B end up in 1.

Antidotal evidence suggest that d) is very unlikely under normal circumstances. Virtually all (but may not be 100%) occurrence that I can remember have either one army having flight or stealth (but moving normally), or one army being very small.

Situation Two:
A1 -> B3
B2 -> A1

In my experience battles do sometimes occur at province 1. However, on those occasions that I can remember B has a castle at province 1. So it is possible that for movement purposes province 1 might still be considered to be owned by B (hence B moves before A). Nevertheless, I think a more likely answer is that movement order in this situation is random.

Antidotal. I think you mean anecdotal. Other than that, the math is way too comlicated for me. All I know is: if an army moves away from an attacking army, they will not enage.

[Ming]

Antidotal. I think you mean anecdotal.

You got me. :D



All I know is: if an army moves away from an attacking army, they will not enage.

Situation Two would be an exception to what you know. :)

[thejeff]

Is it also possible in your situation Two, that a small force attacked 1 from 3 and that kept A from moving so the army from 2 also arrived and they all fought in 1?

There is (was?) also a rare bug that prevents movement between hostile provinces. That could add to the confusion.

[Ming]

Is it also possible in your situation Two, that a small force attacked 1 from 3 and that kept A from moving so the army from 2 also arrived and they all fought in 1?



Good point. I guess it is possible although the second force would need to be very small or invisible to me to escape my attention at the time.

[Beorne]

So I was remembering right ... it is an obscure matter ....

[Herode]

Sure :D

[Edi]

A side question:
Something regarding movement from this changelog have caught my eyes:
http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html

20th july
* Improved move order validation.

Has anyone idea what it could exactly mean?
It means that force marching and sneaking non-stealthy units out of sieges is no longer possible.

[WraithLord]

From KB (based on an older similar thread), HTH:

8.3 Intercepting Armies, army movement order
Question:
Numerous times, I have instructed armies of various sizes to move / attack into neighboring provinces, but those armies were somehow preemptively attacked causing my army to then not move. Sometimes the enemy "intercepting" army consisted only of a single unit - a very irritating way to have stopped my army of hundreds.

However, every time I try to duplicate this feat myself - by sending attacking armies against an enemy on the move - somehow my intercepting armies never seem to "catch" the enemy.

Is this an AI bug? Has anyone observed any "rules" which constrict how such interceptions would work? It certainly would change my strategy.

Answers:
-> The order of events in a turn, as described in the manual, provides some hints; e.g., armies going to friendly territory always move before armies going to hostile territory.

If both of you are trying to move into enemy terrain, I've been told the order of army movements is partly random, but is influenced by things like army size and terrain.

-> You've been unlucky. I have used this trick too, and it works just as well against the AI as it does against you. However, in order to "catch" the enemy army, you have to:

|1.) Originate in the same province that the enemy is moving to, and be headed toward the same province he's coming from.
|2.) Either have a largish army or get lucky. The chance of interception is somehow based on the size of the armies, and if both armies are small they can "pass through" each other.

-Max

P.S. BTW, if you really do have an unstoppable army of hundreds, this is a good reason to split them into two or more columns. It's a lot harder for the opponent to stop both columns, even if he knows exactly what province you'll be moving into--then the delayed column just catches up. On the other hand, if your army is NOT unstoppable this invites defeat in detail.

P.P.S. One other possibility--it *might* depend upon which nation you're playing. I know that if two EA nations both attempt to move into an indy province on the same turn, and one of them is Abysia, Abysia will always attack the indies first and will therefore be the defender in the battle.

[WraithLord]

Ahmm, there's something I'm not sure about.
Say nations 1 and 2 have armies in provinces A and B respectively, and movement orders are: A1->B1 (1 moves from A to B) and B2->C2 (2 moves from B to C)?- Is it possible that 1's army will engage 2's in B?

[Psycho]

Not possible

[WraithLord]

great. I'll add that to KB.

[Beorne]

Not possible

Finally the answer to my question.
Thanks!

[Illuminated One]

If I move several commanders (say x, y and z) with armies from one province (A) to an enemy province (B) and the enemy makes a counter move on A is it then possible that my forces split up?
Like commander x fighting in province A and commanders y and z fighting in B.
If so does it help if I group the commanders while moving?

[thejeff]

I've never seen it. Groups of commanders making the same movement seem to move as a unit, regardless of whether you group them or not.

[Psycho]

If I move several commanders (say x, y and z) with armies from one province (A) to an enemy province (B) and the enemy makes a counter move on A is it then possible that my forces split up?
Like commander x fighting in province A and commanders y and z fighting in B.
If so does it help if I group the commanders while moving?

Some answers in this thread suggest that it is possible, but I personally cannot remember seeing it.

[Tifone]

Seems unlikely. Isn't the movement order organized by nation? All the commanders of nation x should move together unless some are magically challenged somehow, AFAIK.

[Illuminated One]

I think if two commanders from different provinces attacke the army can be split up if the enemy attacks one of the provinces on the same turn.
And it's definately not that the nation that is first in the pretender screen (F4) always moves first. I'm hoping that movement order isn't tied to the unit id, but if noone has ever had problems with it I'll stop worrying.