Mistletoe - an LA game for busy people (in progress)

[Bananadine]

Oi people, this is to be my first hosted game on LlamaServer. Huzzah! I'm hosting a game, rather than just joining one, because I want to try out some slightly unusual settings, the most controversial of which I will mention immediately so as not to waste your time: This game, as the title suggests, will be set on quickhost, with a time limit of... DUH DUH DUNNHHHHH.... six days.

No no, I do not expect turns to actually take six days! I will take my turns almost as frequently as I would in a game with more conventional time limits, and I expect (but WILL NOT require) that most others will as well. I am a busy person, is all, and I don't like being bossed around by my video games! So I want to try this, to see what will happen. Are you busy too? Then maybe you'll join me! Are you totally freaked out? Then please move along. :)

As for other settings: I want to try playing on a large random map, with ~20 provinces per player; I haven't gotten a chance to do that yet and I think it would be interesting. Also, score graphs will be turned off.

I will default to using no mods, but if people want one then I'll consider it.

Players:

Atlantis - Bananadine
Bogarus - Gregstrom
Caelum - Ephraim
C'tis - LDiCesare
Ermor - djo
Gath - hoo
Man - slayers_ai
Marignon - Executor
Mictlan - Hoplosternum
Pangaea - AdmiralZhao
Patala - Slobby
R'lyeh - Kojusoki

[Executor]

I guess we won't be waiting for someone to stale 3 times before we make them AI!
My choice is Jomon.

[Ephraim]

I'll try LA Caelum.

This will be my first multiplayer game, so pardon my noobitude, and if you'd prefer this game to be just for more experienced types, let me know.

[Slobby]

Patala for me please!

[archaeolept]

I'll try LA Caelum.

This will be my first multiplayer game, so pardon my noobitude, and if you'd prefer this game to be just for more experienced types, let me know.No no - it is important that there be meat.

[Bananadine]

I'll try LA Caelum.

This will be my first multiplayer game, so pardon my noobitude, and if you'd prefer this game to be just for more experienced types, let me know.
Haha well declaring yourself as such may not do much for your chance of survival. But you are welcome.

One more thing I forgot to mention at the start is that I want the map to be looping, with no borders. I think you can do that with a random map? Well if you can, then I'm going to.

Anyway I'm going to be Atlantis.

[Kojusoki]

Ill take Rlyeh if you dont MIND :)

[Hoplosternum]

I would like to try Mictlan a try please.

[Ephraim]

I'll try LA Caelum.

This will be my first multiplayer game, so pardon my noobitude, and if you'd prefer this game to be just for more experienced types, let me know.No no - it is important that there be meat.

Well, if meat I must be, then I hope at least to live past being appetizer meat (e.g. vienna sausages) to become main course meat (e.g. chili dogs), or even, dare I hope, dessert meat (e.g. ...uh... maybe twinkie weiner sandwiches?)

See you all in-game :)

[Kojusoki]

when are we going to start?

To be honest, Ryleh should be banned, as any nation who lives next to Ryleh will have certainly less chances to win then the others... Ryleh is killing population and making people insane.

So, I wrote that I want to be a Ryleh, but I will have no problems with choosing any other nation.

[Executor]

Well the new patch gives a little protection against R'lyeh, for Atlantis at least, and I guess he'll be the one you'll be fighting first probably.

[djo]

I'd like to play. I was thinking of starting a slow game myself when I saw yours.

I would like to play Ermor, but if anyone objects, I would take Marignon instead.

Do you know what victory conditions you are going to use?

[Digress]

I would love to give Gath a run

[JimMorrison]

You had me until No Graphs. 8(

[Bananadine]

when are we going to start?

All my games have included maybe ten or twelve people at least, so I assumed we would wait for a few more unless it took too long, but this isn't one of the things I explicitly intended to explore so I have no strong opinions on it. We seem to have enough to start right away if we had to, but maybe we should wait a little longer anyway. I won't stretch it out too much though. Does anyone have a preference?

To be honest, Ryleh should be banned, as any nation who lives next to Ryleh will have certainly less chances to win then the others... Ryleh is killing population and making people insane.

So, I wrote that I want to be a Ryleh, but I will have no problems with choosing any other nation.

I haven't seen anybody complaining yet. :) You're free to change your mind! Anyway this is another matter with which I have little experience (although I do at least know the basic features of the nation) so I hate to do anything as heavy-handed as banning a whole nation unless players especially prefer it.

[Bananadine]

Haha Ermor and R'lyeh both! Much learning will occur.

[Bananadine]

I figured I'd do whatever the default victory condition is. Killing everybody else I guess.

[Jarkko]

I'd sure be interested and a 6 day quick-host sounds like a very good thing for me if I'd survive to the end-game :) Most likely I'd commit some spectacular suicide (I tend to do that...) before that, but if against all odds I'd get there :)

However, LA R'lyeh and LA Ermor are in the game? No thanks, I'll pass :( Maybe next time if you set up a game in a different era or another LA game without R'lyeh or Ermor? :)

[Kojusoki]

Well, I say it this way: I have choosen RlYeh, becouse I dont want anybody else to be Rlyeh:) So if we ban it I will ceratinly switch to other. Your decision. I simply hate when somebody is Rylyeh and is making my pop insane... I will make my population insane by myself:)

[llamabeast]

There is a lot to be said for banning R'lyeh in LA games. The whole game tends to become focussed on killing R'lyeh. Even then R'lyeh often wins.

Personally I think they are much less fun to play against than Ermor. Even having Ermor present, of course, dramatically changes the game.

[Executor]

Ok, I'm switching to Marginon with my luck I know I'll either start next to Ermor or R'lyeh.
Like Llama said this changes the game a little.

[Kojusoki]

So if we agree not to take Emor or Rlyeh, Il take Agartha

[djo]

Haha Ermor and R'lyeh both! Much learning will occur.

You and me both. I've never played Ermor in MP. And when I've played Ermor in SP, I've gotten sloppy due to the micromanagement. I figured a slow game would make that less of an issue.

If Jarkko joins, though, I will gladly drop Ermor for Marignon. Or, as I see this is already taken, something else.

[Hoplosternum]

Ermor and R'lyeh! Well they will certainly change the game if they are in. Which is both good and bad.

As long as those two realise that the game will be those two against the rest (then when they kill the rest of us off fighting between themselves :p ) and the rest of us realise we can't fight each other until those two are dead then the game will work.

But I have played in two mp games with LA Ermor (and LA R'lyeh is worse!) recently. In both I was next door to them. In one I hesitated to attack when I met them in about turn 5. They attacked me by about turn 10 and it was a slow but relentless death after that even with financial and sometimes military help from others. In another I took over a power early on who was next to LA Ermor. But some of Ermors other neighbours wanted to fight amongst themselves for a few turns before turning on Ermor. Big mistake as Ermor grows much more quickly than anyone else. I was eliminated and not too long after even a grand alliance of everyone else threw in the towel.

So a LA game with Ermor and R'lyeh should play out very differently than an ordinary game. Otherwise it is just too easy for those two assuming roughly equal player skill. I don't mind playing against them as long as everyone knows the score. If players treat these two as normal powers at least in the early to mid game then it won't be much fun or challenge for anyone.

[Kojusoki]

I fully agree.
Just keep in mind that it will be my first MP as Rlyeh. However Im not a noob and Im playing Dominions for 2yrs (MP) :)
I just hate when somebody is playing Rlyeh:)

[Bananadine]

Well dang people, I guess this R'lyeh business is a pretty big thing to explore on its own. I don't want to make things TOO unfamiliar here. But, you know, a person has to learn somehow, and y'all seem to be taking this in stride, mostly. So apparently this is also going to be my big R'lyeh-and-Ermor exploration game too. I hope that doesn't swamp the other exploration I'm trying to do, but if it does, then I guess I can just start another new game afterward. :)

And anyway, it wouldn't be like Atlantis to refuse the chance to destroy R'lyeh!

Will the rest of us be enough to balance these dangers? I'll wait about one more day to start, unless somebody thinks we should do otherwise.

[Gregstrom]

Can you put me in for Bogarus please?

[Crust]

I would like to join as Man.

[djo]

As long as those two realise that the game will be those two against the rest

Let it be noted that although I've been playing this game since Dominions 2 days, I'm not all that good at it!

[LDiCesare]

Hi, I'd like to play as C'tis.

[Bananadine]

Okay, I'll start setting things up with LlamaServer in a couple of hours.

[Elos]

If it's not too late I'd join as Pangaea?

[Bananadine]

One more player, just in time! Recruitment is closed now.

[Bananadine]

Closed as of the moment after I added Elos, I mean. :)

[Bananadine]

Hmm I've had to learn and fuss about for a while to make my wrapping random map. I hope it's okay!

I am currently uploading a 7 MB .tga file to LlamaServer... over a modem. :)

[Bananadine]

THE MAP WILL BE ATTACHED TO A POST I MAKE SHORTLY AFTER THIS ONE.

I linked LlamaServer's entry for the map to my preceding post, thinking I could attach it there, but apparently I can only edit the first post in the thread. And I'm not attaching it to THIS one because I'm having trouble connecting to the forum site.

Anyway y'all can upload your pretenders now.

[Bananadine]

Here is a temporary link to the map. (http://tinyurl.com/6zan23)

[LDiCesare]

Province 38 is impossible to reach. If someone gets spawned there, like Ermorian cultists through an event, or worse a starting position, they will be impossible to reach until teleportation spells and such kick in.
Is it possible to change the map file so 38 gets connected to something?

[Kojusoki]

whats the IP address to subbmit the pretender?

[djo]

whats the IP address to subbmit the pretender?

It's an email game, automated through the llamaserver. Short answer is email your .2h file from "newlords" folder to "pretenders" at llamaserver dot net with the game name in the subject line. See llamabeast's FAQ for the whole story:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160

[Kojusoki]

Thank you - pretender has been sent.
When we start?

[Bananadine]

Province 38 is impossible to reach. If someone gets spawned there, like Ermorian cultists through an event, or worse a starting position, they will be impossible to reach until teleportation spells and such kick in.
Is it possible to change the map file so 38 gets connected to something?

Ahh what a strange thing. I assumed this was some little mistake I'd made in my manual fiddling with the map, but no, the game actually appears to have randomly generated Tibet or something. Yes, I can easily make that change in my copy of the map, but not in LlamaServer's copy... there doesn't appear to be a way to do that other than asking Llamabeast to intervene. It would probably be an easy change for him to make, but he is a busy guy. I could also change the map, delete the whole game, upload the changed map, and start a new game (a hassle for almost all of us, especially me).

It looks like this is not a big problem, unless, as you suggest, somebody's capital ends up there, in which case I would want to restart... unless it was Caelum I guess.

It seems like it wouldn't be too bad to start right next to that province--you'd maybe miss out on a high-population income source (until you could get in there magically etc.), but, well, too bad. :) A person with that problem might still be better off than somebody who started next to R'lyeh! Dominions is not entirely fair.

Does anybody see any other crippling problem that could stem from this? I don't. You wouldn't own the province unless you actually started there, which is pretty unlikely, so I guess a lot of the random events that could put units there just wouldn't happen, in the early game at least. It seems most likely that if we play with this map, the province will spend a year or three under Independent rule, which is fine, until somebody decides to invest the resources in using it as an interesting, unusual military base. Again, Caelum is a new player, so maybe we need not be too afraid of raptors infesting the plateau. :)

Of course I will look out for this strange occurrence in the future, regardless....

[Kojusoki]

I fully agree, maybe except that you dont like Rlyeh ;)

[Bananadine]

Okay here is a permanent copy of the map file for the forums! Although who knows whether future game makers will actually want to use it, given its strange properties. (If you are a future game maker, see my previous post for information about said strangeness.)

Kojusoki, we'll start when everybody's got their pretenders in... unless somebody convinces me to change the map first, in which case we'll all have to resend our pretenders.

[Bananadine]

The hosting interval has been changed to 144 hours.

[Bananadine]

Agh, this map appears to have victory point provinces! I see about five of them. How did that happen? Well I guess they won't affect anything, except maybe by spreading dominion a bit... so if you want a cheap, mediocre temple, then I guess you should capture a victory point.

Or maybe they don't even do anything when the standard victory conditions are in force. Does anybody know more about this? It seems like, again, it's something to avoid in the future, but not too big a deal right now....

I'm learning a lot by doing this. :)

[llamabeast]

I think the VP things are a bug. Come to think of it I should probably report. I haven't really looked into what causes it, but the number of VPs is definitely set to zero, so it seems like a bug.

Like you say though, they don't really matter. They are just weak sources of dominion (equivalent to a Dom-5 temple).

[djo]

I recently sent private messages via this forum to two players in this game, one in reply to a PM, one in reply to an in-game message. However, neither one appears in my "sent" private message folder. I am wondering whether they were sent or not. If either of those players have not heard from me, send me another PM with your email address, and I'll get back to you. I have definitely received PMs, I'm just not sure I'm sending them.

Thanks!

[Digress]

I recently sent private messages via this forum to two players in this game, one in reply to a PM, one in reply to an in-game message. However, neither one appears in my "sent" private message folder. I am wondering whether they were sent or not. If either of those players have not heard from me, send me another PM with your email address, and I'll get back to you. I have definitely received PMs, I'm just not sure I'm sending them.

Thanks!

You have to tick a little box at the bottom (amongst the "additional options)" after you write the message but before you send it to have it saved to your sent items box - which is a bit silly. There may be a better way to do it - but I haven't had the time to find it yet.

[djo]

Thanks! I never noticed that.

[Kojusoki]

is the game dead at the very begining or did I miss something?:)

[Digress]

I think we are just waiting for Patala's turn to come in. Is hosting as advertised ;)

[Bananadine]

I think we are just waiting for Patala's turn to come in. Is hosting as advertised ;)

Yes. I have just sent Slobby a reminder, in case he has simply forgotten about this game. I don't intend to hassle people like that in general, but I figure most people aren't used to these settings so it's probably easy to forget to take your turn. I hope we'll get used to it soon enough to run a smooth game... but if not, then this game will take quite a long time, which is fine with me. :)

[Slobby]

I think we are just waiting for Patala's turn to come in. Is hosting as advertised ;)

Quite. :D

[LDiCesare]

Just posting to warn everyone that LDC is now LDiCesare (as I used to be before the site change) in case anyone wants to send PM's to C'tis.

[Slobby]

Just curious, did C'tis stale last turn?

[djo]

I think it was Pangaea, not C'tis. If they didn't stale, they played their turn within the last couple hours before the scheduled hosting.

[Bananadine]

Pangaea seems to be deceased. I guess I'll look for a substitute.

[Bananadine]

Uh okay Pangaea has taken a turn but hasn't replied to my message. PANGAEA ARE YOU HERE

Well taking the turn is the important thing.

[Bananadine]

What is with people failing to reply to my messages? Don't y'all have your forum accounts hooked up to your e-mail accounts? Maybe I will say I am requiring that, next time I start a game. Then I won't feel badly about kicking out people who miss their turns and then ignore my messages!

Eh well, science marches on. You can't stop it!

[LDiCesare]

Did you send everyone a message? I don't seem to have received any.

[Bananadine]

Oh no I only sent messages to the people who were staling.

Executor (Marignon) has replied, he says he was distracted by personal stuff for a while but is back now. However I'm halfway through the process of getting a substitute for Marignon sooo I don't yet know who will take the next turn for that nation.

Pangaea seems to have slipped back into a coma, but I guess we won't know that for sure until the turn deadline! But if Pangaea stales again I guess I'll do something decisive.

WE CAN HOLD THIS TOGETHER PEOPLE

[Executor]

Illuminated One was kind enough to let me continue this game, really nice of him!
I'm back I guess, Banandine I've sent you my email address.

[Bananadine]

OK now I'm trying to get Illuminated One to be Pangaea (seems to be working). :)

[Illuminated One]

Ok, hi all, I'm here to take over Pangea.
Anything I need to know?

Oh, and how do I get llamaserver to send the turn files to me?
Or can you do that Banadine?

[Bananadine]

It appears that anybody can do it for anybody. I already did it for you, as I said in my private message, and I've just now done it again. Has nothing come?

(To do this, go to http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Mistletoe and click Request Turn Resend or whatever at the bottom.)

[Bananadine]

Anyway I set Pangaea to your e-mail address, so if nothing comes please tell me. Maybe I typed the address wrong? Maybe you typed it wrong? Maybe I didn't set it right?

I hope we can set you up correctly in time for the turn, but if you do stale, well, don't feel too badly. It's probably what Pangaea would have done. :)

[Illuminated One]

@Banadine

Sent you a PM.

[Bananadine]

Looks like you got in. Hooray!

[Executor]

This really does seem to be a game for VERY busy people, I can't imagine how much time mid and late game turns will take if the first 10 turns are taking about 4-5 days each.

[Bananadine]

4-5 days, presumably. I don't intend to increase the turn duration, after all.

[Illuminated One]

It's too easy to forget about this game... :(

[Illuminated One]

Well, since the last turn my computer has broken and I've got a new one, so to play the next turn I'd need the map again.

But I'm in no good position in game anyways and having to die slowly over over the course of several months makes this rather unfun.
So I'd like to be set AI or subbed by someone who doesn't mind.
Sorry about that.

[Kojusoki]

well....indeed...it is a very, very long game...
I am a busy man, but I have a feeling that I play with Presidents at least...

Comeon guys, who is Putin, who is Bush!?

[Bananadine]

It is pretty brutal when people stale in this game.

[Bananadine]

Oh boy I hadn't even realized people were posting here! I didn't get an e-mail for some reason.

Okay, I will try to obtain a new Pangaea.

For the record, I am having fun in this game. :)

[AdmiralZhao]

Hi all, the new Pangea here. I haven't looked at a turn file or a map yet, but I hereby lay claim to all forests. Please vacate your troops from them in an orderly manner.

[Bananadine]

Our R'lyeh seems to have gone into a coma, but so has LlamaServer so it's okay... for now. I hope I don't have to replace R'lyeh!

[Bananadine]

Ohhhhhkay R'lyeh is STILL not replying to my messages and apparently still has not sent in a turn... unless LlamaServer just isn't accepting whatever turn was sent? Oi. Well regardless, failing to answer me for two weeks or whatever it's been is not cool! So I am posting about a sub for R'lyeh. :(

[Executor]

Llamaserver's back actually, just got some turns.
Just my luck. I had a very good arrangement with R'lyeh and now he's gone.

[Kojusoki]

hello its Ryleh...
I havent received any information yet...
To be honest I opened this forum to write that it takes way too much time to make a turn and I resign :/
Have you sent me any emails?
I am sorry for this but I had no info that we are still playing...

Can someone sent me an email with my turn, or am I already AI? I havent got any emails from server for a long long time:(

PS
I see I had 3 messages, but PM not email unfortunatly :(
Again sorry for stalling

[Bananadine]

Okay people, please have your forum accounts configured to send you e-mail when you get messages or when somebody posts to a thread you've subscribed to!

Now about R'lyeh: Kojusoki, I hope you will at least take your current turn, just to minimize harm to our game in the short term. But as for the long term: You say the turns are taking too long. Is that because of this temporary LlamaServer problem? Or is it just because of the six-day turn duration? You say you were intending to resign--do you still intend to?

If you do, then would it help if I were to reduce the turn duration? Of course if we all took our turns faster, quickhost would get them to us faster, but this is a game, not a job--if the particular discipline required to take your turn reasonably early without a deadline pushing you does not come easily to all of our players, then maybe I should pull back the deadline. I wanted to see what would happen with such a long duration; well, one trial does not a science experiment make, but anyway this at least gives me a sense of what happens. :) Still, for my own comfort I would prefer not to reduce the duration by more than about two days. Would this be enough to bring back our R'lyeh? It seems pretty hard to find substitutes, for some reason...

[Bananadine]

Ah, Kojusoki, I just noticed you were asking for your turn file. Anybody can have a turn sent to them via the game page on LlamaServer--go to the game page and click "Request turn resend". But I've just done that for R'lyeh. If you don't get the e-mail for some reason, you might try doing it yourself as well.

Haha and here I was asking you here and in a private message to please take your turn--it's so easy for messages to cross, in this complicated communication system we have. Wouldn't it be nice if the forum and LlamaServer and the Dominions 3 program were all integrated? Hmm maybe after Illwinter wins the lottery.

[Kojusoki]

I am still playing, turn has been made (I dont know if you realized, but almost everytime, I was one of the first who finished their turns:)

So I am back to the game, we can still be dreaming, I hope you will be dreaming also :)
Thank you for the turn.

And yes, it is a good idea to have email notification for this thread - becouse it is a one that is not too... occupied:) If I had a email notification in other games, I would have my email blocked;)

To the host: in my opinion, I would prefer to have the turn limit of 2 days. It is so early that come on, it is not a big deal to spend 5 minutes every two days for a such interesting thing like a Dominions game:)

[Bananadine]

OH MY GOD A NEW TURN JUST CAME

(not your god, though)

[Kojusoki]

Yes, my god was asleep as I received a stale turn from the host after sending my file:/

I hope it will not hapen again - anyway - my turn is done :)

[Bananadine]

Okay, well you can have e-mail notification for private messages without getting e-mails for threads, can't you? I think you can, anyway. I suppose if somebody had a problem with that, though, then I could always just require everybody to give me their e-mail addresses when the game started. I just need SOME way to contact people privately, in case they start staling or whatever.

As for turn duration: You may spend five minutes on a turn at this point in the game, but I surely do not. My turns take 30-60 minutes (I haven't tried to measure), and they will generally get longer unless somebody starts really killing me. So I am still proposing to reduce the turn duration to a bit over four days--I'm in two games now, which will give me 30-60 minutes' Dominions every other day or so, and that's what I want.

However, nobody else has discussed this yet. Are there any objections to what I propose? I mean, will anybody (Kojusoki or anybody else) quit over this?

As for our Nagot gick fel--well argh! I've barely even looked at my turn yet, but it seems okay. I mean I have lots of money. What are y'all's situations? Will we have to rewind the turn (I hope not), or can we accept the stale?

[Kojusoki]

So now we can see who is our biggest threat ;)
I will be playing anyway, unless it is a 10days limit for a turn:)
I didnt loose to much for this stale turn so it is ok with me.

[Executor]

Well I'm usually the first to get the turn in so I forget about this game a lot. Don't remember what I planned to do next and such, but I've started writing it down now.
I'm up for a 4 day hosting interval too, and as for the stale it will probably take people 3-4 days to answer here weather they'd like to roll back so you better either do it now or just go with the stale, I'm good either way.

[LDiCesare]

I don't care much anout the turn duration. I usually always play my turns the day I recieve them so it doesn't matter how far in between they are, as I make sure not to play too many games. As long as I can skip playing during week-ends whatever duration you pick is fine with me.

[Gregstrom]

I can live with the Nagot Gick Fel!, but it's a frustration. It may be worth asking Llamabeast if the llamaserver made a mistake somehow.

I'm okay with the host time being reduced, too.

[djo]

I guess I'm OK with letting the stale stand. All that population was going to die sooner or later anyway...

As for duration, I suppose I'd be OK with a 4-day quickhost, but no quicker. I signed up for a slow game, and that's what I want!

[llamabeast]

It was a problem with the server, caused by lack of disk space as it turns out. I'll rehost...

[Gregstrom]

Excellent. Many thanks :)

[Bananadine]

Cool, no stale.

If I change the turn duration, I will do it early next turn so nobody is too badly surprised. Yeah djo, I wanted to keep it the way I said it would be at the beginning, just because it was what I said, and I still want to (even though 4 days might be a bit easier for me personally)--but my first interest is in keeping the game going. So if anybody is thinking of quitting for this reason or any other, please tell me first!

[Kojusoki]

unless it is a 10 days "quick" host im ok:)
At this speed, my son will be playing the 45th turn when he grows up (he is 5 now;)

At his 18th birthday, as a gift, he will receive his father Kingdom and the Marignon beautiful princess as his wife;)

[Bananadine]

Do the rulers of Marignon believe that illithids can be trusted with their daughters?

[Executor]

The high-born of Marginon will be sacrificed in the name of our Great God, unless one proves himself worthy of such a reward.
Many wars have been fought for the hand of our daughters but none of the invaders lived to tell the tale.

[Kojusoki]

Such a marriage would strenghten our eternal friendship between our Nations. We, the peace loveing nation of Ryleh hate wars... we dream, dream about the better future.

All the other Pretenders and Gods are welcome to the wedding ceremony. The wedding gifts, please send directly to our ministry of treasure. All the donations will be spend for a new "love castle", where other gods and pretenders may visit and have fun (the crones and necromants will have an accomodation in a seperate wing of the castle). You are all welcome.
Let the dream begin...

[Bananadine]

Oh.

[LDiCesare]

You know R'lyeh's dominion is becoming even worse with the latest patch?

[Executor]

Have no fear, Marginon is near.
At least I don't have to worry bout that.

[Kojusoki]

Oh, come on... R'lyeh is not so bad...

[Bananadine]

I had a little trouble in my other game about the exact terms of an NAP, so I thought I'd spell out here what I mean by NAP before I make another one, to prevent confusion (and to let other players point out that I am breaking the common definition, if that's what I'm doing). In the future I will put in a little blurb about this in the opening post of the thread for any new game I make.

I consider an NAP3 to mean that the two nations involved will be at peace indefinitely, until one of them explicitly cancels the pact at (or very near to) the start of a turn. Then, the next three turns, including the one starting with the cancellation announcement, will be turns of peace--meaning that no battles between these two nations would be shown in their Messages. And that's all.

Particularly, this means that it would be allowed to give attack orders against the other nation involved in the pact on the third turn of peace after the cancellation--the fact that attack orders are given wouldn't make it a turn of war, by my definition. Only actual battle can do that, and the battle doesn't happen until the start of the next turn. Is this how people normally think of it? It's what makes sense to me, anyway. But that's the thing that created a misunderstanding in my other game--I was in a pact with a dude who thought that giving attack orders wasn't allowed in a turn of peace.

I don't mean to start a big debate or anything--I just hate having that kind of big, simple misunderstanding get in the way of the game.

[AdmiralZhao]

That's how I think of it too. To avoid confusion, it is polite to add "My armies will arrive on turn X and crush you".

[Bananadine]

True, but that clarifies the issue only when the pact is on its way to being cancelled, not before it's made.

[BesucherXia]

I am the person Bananadine refers to.

This game is a simultaneous-turn based, means the result is always generated after all players have submitted their orders instead of immediatly resolved. Thus what we read from the messege list is the result of last turn, and the turn you give attack order is also the turn you "officially start war".

The spirit of NAP-N pact is to delay attack by N turns and thus called “none-aggression”. Assuming we have a NAP1 pact, and that does not mean one can attack another at any time given noting him before the new turn is generated, which means no war is delayed at all.

Sorry for my English since its not my native language. I believe you can inquire other verterans in the main forum if it's still not clear.

[LDiCesare]

I tend to believe that th turn of war declaration doesn't count as one of the turn delays. The NAP1 example is quite compelling.

[Hoplosternum]

I tend to believe that th turn of war declaration doesn't count as one of the turn delays. The NAP1 example is quite compelling.

I agree.

There are still other possibilities for confusion re overland spells and globsld.

Plus if I announce the end to the pact can my opponent attack at once or is he bound by the pact for those turns too? If he is not and he does attack me am I then still restricted on later turns - or does he by attacking end his protection early?

[LDiCesare]

There are still other possibilities for confusion re overland spells and globsld.

Plus if I announce the end to the pact can my opponent attack at once or is he bound by the pact for those turns too? If he is not and he does attack me am I then still restricted on later turns - or does he by attacking end his protection early?
My view is that spells which can be identified are breaking of the NAP. Spells are usually anonymous but if you're obviously the only one to be able to cast it...
As for globals, Burden of Time is akin to a declaration of war on everyone (well, except LA Ermor). Many other globals I wouldn't consider a breach, although the admiral and other such spells enter the category of 'attack spells'.

Both parties are bound by the delay. Your opponent's attacking you immediately because you announced the end of the NAP is a breach of the NAP.

Then again, there's no rule that says NAPs must be respected. It's "just" going to earn you a very bad reputation around here.

[Executor]

I agree about spells being NAP breakers.
Casting any spell against someone is a hostile act. If that weren't so you could cast spells against anyone and still say it isn't a hostile act. ( although nobody is stupid enough to believe that )
For example VOTD, you kill someones pretender and that isn't a NAP violation? Unlikely
And what about send horror. Mictlan would be in a position to take someone out before the war even starts.

[Bananadine]

This game is a simultaneous-turn based, means the result is always generated after all players have submitted their orders instead of immediatly resolved. Thus what we read from the messege list is the result of last turn, and the turn you give attack order is also the turn you "officially start war".

A good point. It's easy to think of the orders you give as happening immediately after all battles you see, but who is to say that the battles don't happen earlier than when you get to see them. Really, the game doesn't say much about whether they happen right after you give attack orders, or right before you give the next turn's orders.

The spirit of NAP-N pact is to delay attack by N turns and thus called “none-aggression”. Assuming we have a NAP1 pact, and that does not mean one can attack another at any time given noting him before the new turn is generated, which means no war is delayed at all.

Also a good point, but this doesn't render my style of NAP1 completely meaningless. Without an NAP, somebody could attack you at any time, and you would never know it beforehand. With an NAP1 using my interpretation, somebody could still attack you at any time; there would be no delay, as you say. But they would be required to tell you what they were doing, at the beginning of the turn, so that you would have that turn in which to quickly respond.

Anyway I am currently thinking both interpretations are reasonable--which increases the danger of misunderstanding. What's important to me is not that we use the "correct" one, but that the people with whom I make agreements understand which one I am referring to without a big hassle. So maybe when I make games in the future (as I will probably continue to do since I have slightly unusual tastes) I will arbitrarily pick one of the NAP definitions but let the players override me if they like--just so long as we agree on one, with minimal pain, before the game starts.

As for the many subtleties involving sneaky spells and sneaky Sidhe armies and whatnot--well those are complex, diplomatically significant issues, whereas this question of what the 3 in NAP3 actually means is just a silly naming problem. If somebody fudges the terms of a pact by causing a hurricane in my rich farmland, I will consider it part of the game. (I don't mean it's entirely "okay", but still, it's part of the game.) But if I suddenly learn that I disagree with somebody about what the 3 means, well that's not part of the game, that's a silly misunderstanding getting in the way of the game. I am only concerned here with the reduction of silly misunderstandings. :)

[LDiCesare]

But they would be required to tell you what they were doing, at the beginning of the turn, so that you would have that turn in which to quickly respond.
So for instance if they send the message in-game before they write the orders, is this valid? In such a case, the attacker DOES tell at the beginning of the turn, before the attack order is even given, but the target has no time to react.

I think the problem is that there are both turns and in-between-turns. If you limit yourself to in-game diplomacy (which, by the way, is the only one that is sure to reach your target), then the NAP1 you propose is equivalent to zilch. If you allow for out-of-game diplomacy, then it looks ok. Except if you're running on quickhost, send the message 1 min before posting your turn and yours is the last turn, quickhost starts and the defending player would be definitely right to be pissed off. On the other hand, if he has time to react before posting orders, for instance you wait for him to answer your message before sending yout orders, then I think it would be ok.

[Kojusoki]

To be honest I used to play according to the Bananadines rules.
But now, I realize, that it doesnt have to be the best option, becouse of the problem WHEN the other side is being informed about the ending of the NAP. I see, the Bananadines definition is ok only when we use ONLY the ingame message system

Otherwise, even with NAP2, we can "earn" one extra turn:)

[Bananadine]

A new era has begun for Mankind. Crust has fallen into Kokytos apparently so I have put in slayers_ai as our new Man. Please update your magickal indices of world rulers accordingly.

[slayers_ai]

err...where's the map?

never mind...i found it...:)

[djo]

The nation of Ermor deplores the cowardly and hypocritical sneak attack by Pangaea on our lands. Without so much as a declaration of war, Pangaea's forces stormed over the borders of a nation that has never attacked another. In a shameful piece of propaganda, the Pangaeans called themselves a "living nation" while simultaneously fielding undead of their own in battle. Hypocrites, one and all!

We invite Pangaea's neighbors to demonstrate to that rotting nation what a sneak attack is like. We will have to satisfy ourselves with a more conventional, and more honorable fight. Mark well how a civilized nation acts: we hereby declare war on Pangaea. And having done so, we now feel free to attack, knowing that no right-minded nation could find fault in our actions.

the Eternal Senate of Ermor
(in continuous session since the fall of Ermor, and not intending to recess anytime soon)

[AdmiralZhao]

Pangea did lay claim to all the world's forests a couple of months back. :)

In any case, it will soon be the Eternal Senate of Ermor in Exile, as the invincible armies of Pangea will be laying siege to Ermor next turn.

[AdmiralZhao]

As promised, Pangea has laid siege to the Ermorian capital and torn down its walls. In a desperate, last ditch gamble, Ermor threw its remaining armies at the besiegers. In the resulting battle, the armies of Pangea stood firm and destroyed the elite corps and corpses of Ermor's army. Six hundred Knights of the Sepulchre, undead calvary, and legionnaires were destroyed. The one sad note of the battle was that we killed none of the enemy's leaders. However, we did cut off some of their lines of retreat, and so we hope to have destroyed several leaders after the battle.

Pangea renews its call for all living nations of the world to join us in wiping out Ermor. The undead are weak, and ripe for the crushing.

[djo]

Pangaea is not paying close attention if they think they need the help of all living nations to wipe out Ermor...

And playing Ermor looked so easy in SP!

[AdmiralZhao]

Do you hear that LA Ryleh? Pangea is coming after you next!

[Bananadine]

Are you after kelp forests as well?

[LDiCesare]

I'll probably be unable to play my turn between the 24th of december and the 1st of january. I'll try to find an internet access, but don't be surprised if I stale as I'll have no internet access from now till the 4th of January .

[djo]

On a similar note, it would be a great help to me if at least one player does not submit their current turn until Monday. The only way I'd miss a turn due to travel is if the next turn hosts tomorrow (Sunday). I know that's unlikely, but still.

[Bananadine]

I'll probably be unable to play my turn between the 24th of december and the 1st of january. I'll try to find an internet access, but don't be surprised if I stale as I'll have no internet access from now till the 4th of January .

From now? I guess you won't be able to find a temporary substitute either, then? (You can send me a message anytime, with your e-mail address and the substitute's e-mail address, and I can make the switch.) I could post a message asking for a substitute, myself, but if you couldn't easily talk to them or me it probably wouldn't work out. Also, turns do come at unexpected times, and with a week-long absence you could miss two instead of one. Could you at least give me an accurate time for when you'll DEFINITELY be back online? If you give me that information, then if a turn deadline happens to come up just before that time, I will delay the turn slightly.

Otherwise, I guess you'll stale. :)

djo, I'm traveling today myself and it's likely that I'll send in my turn after the time you specify. I'll keep an eye on the situation, anyway.

Would these problems become simpler if I turned off quickhost until a day or two into January? I could even delay the hosting... although it's already pretty well delayed on its own in the normal course of things. :)

[AdmiralZhao]

Eek, I just noticed that I'm going to miss the current hosting time. Could you delay hosting for 6 hours? I should be back at my dominions computer by then. Sorry about the delay; I'll try to get the turns in more snappily next time.

[Bananadine]

Hm yes that will lighten my own load as well.

[Bananadine]

Okay I delayed it. Sorry everybody, Jesus is getting born etc. (You should consider worshiping Freagarthach instead however.)

[LDiCesare]

Well, I was off till the 4th, i.e. now. I could get one turn in on the 25th, but staled the next one for one day :(.

[Bananadine]

Take heart, for one day we will all have microchips in our elbows and you will be able to send in your Dominions turn merely by pointing your elbow toward the sky and wishing.

SAY as long as we're here talking, maybe one of you fine people should join my other game as a substitute for EA Ermor, which needs a substitute. Unless you're already in that game. Further details are here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=664144

[Kojusoki]

LA Ryleh has Awaken. So, who is going to dream with us again...Dream about victory? We were dreaming about Pangea, but where they are!?

[AdmiralZhao]

We are right where you least expect us, you void-scum. :)

[Kojusoki]

We deicided not to talk with you, when you call us void-scum;). We fall asleep again and we are dreaming of a better world:)

Our main computer has taken control over the dreamers!

Good job guys:)

[djo]

Ermor cannot be contained! Fear our roaming cultists, striking into the heart of enemy territory! Wherever you are, you are not safe!

[Executor]

Looks like someone else is collecting the death gems from Ermors capital now...

[djo]

It's a lie. We have, however, relocated the capital.

[Executor]

I wish you relocated The Holy Sepulchre also.

[AdmiralZhao]

The armies of Pangea have become listless and easily irritated. Perhaps it is just the dreary scenery of Ermor, or the fact that they have not had a bite of food in 18 months. In any case, I think a new war would be good for their spirits. Does anyone know who Pangea should attack now that Ermor and Ryleh no longer threaten the world?

[Bananadine]

Let's all reflect on the fact that Mictlan has a priest king named Buttermere.

He's got two nature gems, people! Keep him in your prayers.

[Bananadine]

Almost 23,000 have died in R'lyeh.

[djo]

Ermor wishes to congratulate R'lyeh on such a good start! Really, the first 20 or 30 thousand are the toughest. After that, the rest of the population just sort of withers away. But keep at it, and soon you too will be able to look over your serene, lifeless, gray hills (or waters, in your case) with a feeling of peace and accomplishment.

[Bananadine]

The illithids of R'lyeh will meet death themselves; perhaps after that Kraglos can congratulate them himself, if he still exists.

Any illithids not involved in the enslavement of Atlantians will join Atlantis, or die. The Forgiving Fathers have ways of measuring their loyalty. Soon enough, Atlantis will have nothing more to fear from any starspawn.

[Executor]

Man I hate LA games, so much gems less...

[Bananadine]

I pulled back the far-off hosting time that llamabeast set for us by about a day, in a fit of arbitrary impatience. Tell me if this is a problem!

[Bananadine]

I think I mixed something up while doing that, and the deadline went out even farther. I'm not sure about this but I pulled it back again anyway. Right now it's about five days off, and I don't plan to fuss with it again. I'll take my turn soon, and send encouraging messages to those others who haven't gone. :)

[Bananadine]

How sad when dudes quit playing! A human could perhaps have held Mictlan. But the silly AI tried to defend against arrows with slaves!

[LDiCesare]

Yes, the slaves just routed the weak rest of defenders faster than if they hadn't been there. The ai had giant toads sitting idly in the corner watching slaves be turned into pincushions and then leaving for their native marshes. The ai has always been crap with Mictlan, though at least it doesn't let them dominion-die in MA.

[Executor]

Against a human player we would have sent mages, but no need against the AI.

One thing interests me here, are eagle warriors considered fliers when they are blessed?

Also, another thing confused me in this game, Caelum and Man were fighting each other right? And than suddenly they both just turned AI.

[LDiCesare]

One thing interests me here, are eagle warriors considered fliers when they are blessed?
Do you mean for targeting orders? They don't get the icon when you clikc on details. One would have to try a fire fliers order against blessed, in-range, guard commander eagles to test it.

[Bananadine]

Also, another thing confused me in this game, Caelum and Man were fighting each other right? And than suddenly they both just turned AI.

Yeah that was a bit weird. I figured Man had simply decided he was going to lose, since he had indeed lost some big battles. He was still doing fairly well, but people do like to quit early for some silly reason...

Caelum, on the other hand, was in fine shape. Too bad!

[Executor]

I assumed this would happen sooner or later, but I kinda hoped later since I entered a new war a turn ago. Fighting on two separate continents is gonna be a blast. Especially since I don't know what the heck I'm doing with playing my turns every 6 days.
Banandine, be sure I'm gonna be annoying as HELL and it will take you a long long time to kill me, if you menage it at all...

[Bananadine]

Marignon makes assumptions easily! The Atlantians are passing through, on their way to another sea.

[Executor]

Somehow conquering my lands doesn't seem like a friendly gesture to me.
If you weren't a water nation I'd attack you back sinee you made no effort of letting me know this, but I can hardly enter the water.

[Bananadine]

God's people go where they will. Do your angels send word ahead before destroying the lizardmen?

[Executor]

The Angels of Marginon are on a holy mission to cleanse the world of dark arts, and that is our only goal.

[Bananadine]

I just postponed hosting by 5 hours. It's a little awkward for me to be relying on my own ability to delay turns at the last minute (well, the last ten hours anyway), since nobody else in the game can reliably do that! And so I prefer not to. But DANG I'm busy this week.

[Executor]

Bogarus you sneaky bastard!
Why can't I have just one little war with a single enemy in just one game without someone interfering.

I was under the impression that we had a NAP but I'm not sure doe, can't really blame you for attacking me, I know my memory is fading away, this game outlives my brain cells with such a slow pace....

[LDiCesare]

Bogarus looks very honourable to me :D.
IC:
As for Gath, what an abject nation of inhuman monsters! How dare you attack me, you warm-blooded scum? You should be striking Marignon instead, our cold blood is of no use for your creepy sacrifices. We will send you back where you belong!

[Gregstrom]

I am fairly sure I had no NAP with you, as we have no border. If I'm wrong, please accept my apologies.

[Executor]

Now somehow I think this does not look like a very promising situation for me.
I guess Atlantis isn't passing through this time.
I curse the Atlantis/Bogarus/C'tis pact!

This should be rather interesting...

[Bananadine]

We seem to be running low on Pans again. :!

[Bananadine]

I've posted advertisements for substitutes. :(

If you know anybody who might want to be our third Pangaean governor (or if you know what happened to AdmiralZhao), please tell me!

[Bananadine]

Ehh that's enough of that--I've given Pangaea to the AI.

[Gregstrom]

Oh great - that's just what I need right now.

[Bananadine]

I'm glad everyone is getting what they need.

[Bananadine]

Hmm, I'd assumed that your (Gregstrom's) recent post was good evidence that you would not, after all, stale.

Marignon is clearly still strong, but seems to have mostly given up, under conditions that didn't quite break C'tis (which is now on the rise). Are the colorfully dressed halberdiers somehow less brave than the herbivorous lizardmen?

Astonishing massacres are taking place in Caelum. Great credit goes to Fisher the Oracle, and Fenric, a minor, human commander of Patala, the latter of whom almost singlehandedly destroyed the seat of the Caelian religion after all his compatriots had fled.

In other news, Atlantis has once again rescued the endangered Ermorian skeleton from extinction, and will soon be releasing this strange creature back into the wild. But there is only limited hope for its continued survival.

[Executor]

Marginon is preparing for the end of the days.
The time of judgment has come mortals.

[djo]

In other news, Atlantis has once again rescued the endangered Ermorian skeleton from extinction, and will soon be releasing this strange creature back into the wild. But there is only limited hope for its continued survival.

I have never turned myself AI, and I don't plan to start now!

The turns are very quick to do...

[LDiCesare]

Marignon is clearly still strong, but seems to have mostly given up, under conditions that didn't quite break C'tis (which is now on the rise). Are the colorfully dressed halberdiers somehow less brave than the herbivorous lizardmen?
C'tis has mostly been taking back lands left undefended by Marignon who seems to be plotting something, while at the same time Gath built up a huge devillish force north of the lizards. Gath's record of sending devils against C'tis should be of some comfort to Marignon however.

[Bananadine]

In other news, Atlantis has once again rescued the endangered Ermorian skeleton from extinction, and will soon be releasing this strange creature back into the wild. But there is only limited hope for its continued survival.

I have never turned myself AI, and I don't plan to start now!

The turns are very quick to do...

I think it is fun to linger and to plot last-resort defenses--even if you know you won't win the war, you can still win battles! And you also gain freedom to try strange things, in that situation. Armies of will o' the wisps, etc.

I've been through several singleplayer games and several multiplayer games now, and I think I'm still the only person I've ever seen summon a Lammashta!

[Executor]

Does anybody want to try and dispel the AC?
Wait, that's not all more is coming.
Atlantis/Bogarus/C'tis I suggest the 3 of you hurry or there won't be much of a game left once I'm dead.

[Bananadine]

You may be underestimating the wealth of this world's seas.

[Bananadine]

Evidently Atlantis has underestimated Marignon as well.

[Executor]

Surly you realise now that those bane venom charms you put ain't worth crap.

[Gregstrom]

Ow. That's annoying. On the plus side, my Pretender chose exactly the right turn to cast Twiceborn :P

[Executor]

I think being ganged upon every in game is annoying...
You might wanna cast some more of those twiceborn.

[Gregstrom]

The thing about being huge and powerful is that it does invite ganging somewhat. Armageddon spam certainly makes the game interesting, though.

[Bananadine]

Atlantis is larger, and more powerful. And the strong bodies of the elder Atlantians withstand earthquakes easily. It was never Freagarthach's intention to kill all foreigners, but through Marignon's help, the lesser peoples of the world will be weeded away nonetheless!

[Bananadine]

CONFIRMED: Mages performing rituals via the corrupted ether, when they fight the horrors that notice their magic use, will be guarded by the units set to guard them.

ALSO CONFIRMED: Even a pretty cheap little spell can get noticed by some extremely strong horrors.

These results are due to the efforts of Tiquana the Angakok, may he rest in peace.

[Gregstrom]

To quote the unfortunate Jarith: "B-b-b-but... Umor? I only cast Haruspex!"

I got to see Kurgi, too.

[Slobby]

You know I've read of people complaining about the arma spam and how it wrecks the game, but for me I'm enjoying this! Arma spam essentially wipes out and further lessens the role of regular forces in the late game, so you have to rely more on summons, but since AC is up you can't really summon anything without giving up a mage! Quite interesting. Combine that with ermor and ryleh dom kill so a good chunk of the map is already barren, now the rest of the map is catching up! hahahahaha fun

[Executor]

Yeah, that was the plan, no gold, no use of gems.

[Bananadine]

And no Marignon?

[LDiCesare]

No Armageddon this turn?

[Gregstrom]

I think I saw one, at the top of the message list. It looks like we stopped an awesome size of AN from going up, at least.

Oh, and I think C'tis are likely to win after the dust settles.

[Executor]

Well, I've set myself AI.
Being torn apart by 4 nations isn't really my thing any more.

I've reduced micro as much as I could for you people, enjoy with what you have left, which isn't very much.

Have a good game and I suggest you eliminate Atlantis next since he is the biggest threat now IMO.

[Gregstrom]

Yeah, they probably are. I think it needed multiple nations to stop Mari being #1 threat, though. You had a lot of nasties available to you.

Thanks for playing :D

[Bananadine]

Yes, thanks for giving up in an interesting way instead of just giving up.

[Bananadine]

I was letting Gath slide for a while, with the staling, but if the nation stales again then I think I'll do something about it this time.

[Bananadine]

hoo is the new Gath!

[hoo]

If you have diplomatic relations with Gath please let me know as I'll try to honor some existing ones if they exist. I have examined the situation and found it rather interesting. Anyway, let me know if you have any Naps/alliances.

gath

[Bananadine]

Marignon has sent an arch-devil alone into battle against nine men, each of whom carried a Flambeau!

[Executor]

The AI Marginon must have been crazed by the constant Armageddons and the attacks of four different nation at the same time.

[LDiCesare]

Yeah, the AI is throwing its commanders in sometimes stupid ways, like sending some obviously ment to forge/cast into battle with little support.
However, I suspect Marignon to only field mages now and little or no troops, which won't help it. It's still able to deal some damage with its golems though.

[Gregstrom]

Well, that's pretty much it for me. It was a close battle, but not close enough. I could have sworn I'd told the castle forces to break siege... never mind. All I can do now is supervise the loss of all Bogarus to its immediate neighbours.

All hail our lizard overlords!

[Bananadine]

You will never blind the mighty Taharka!

[Gregstrom]

You might if you keep up those Solar Brilliances. The Nether Darts synergised nicely with that, much to my amusement.

[hoo]

Just FYI, I'll be on vacation August 8-15th. I'll try to get in a turn quickly and then take a turn that weekend I get back. GAth.

[Bananadine]

Haha, so much for the Infernal Sword!

[Executor]

Haha, so much for the Infernal Sword!

My good sir, please do enlighten us.
I believe that sword was in my possession, well rather the AI's now.

Oh, is my AC still up?
And how does the world fare after my evil attempt to destroy the world with Armag. ?

[djo]

As every AI learned in when they were just a little CPUling, the best thing to do with a well-equipped Fallen Angel is send them into the arena death match! As fast as possible! The trident, it glitters, it beckons...it cannot be resisted! The AI wants it, yes, precious!

[Bananadine]

I actually forgot to send somebody to the death match! I guess it's probably for the best that I did. Anybody unimportant enough to go would only have ended up dead or in hell.

[LDiCesare]

The ai had at least four other Fallen Angels to pick from. I'm seriously thinking of dom-killing your capital. I killed a stray golem, but I'd have to bring in at least five SC's as strong as the Fallen Angels to take the fortress... Or bring in a huge army of chaff hoping they're busy with the chaff until a lucky and deadly spell gets past their mr.

[Executor]

Yeah, those Marginon Angels are nasty, before the dogpille I started summoning one every turn, along with the occasional golem and the ERoys!

All in all I think this game was a dead race up until the point the EVIL C'tis convinced everyone to attack me!!!

I think I'll give Marginon another try in some other game, had such a good start and great potential.

[LDiCesare]

the EVIL C'tis
We're peaceful lizards and resent being called evil. We don't slay people to summon demons. We only slay them so they can become our zombies.

[Bananadine]

Apparently it is possible to render an earth elemental elderly by reducing its size--its age doesn't change as its size decreases, but its threshold for old age does!

[LDiCesare]

Apparently it is possible to render an earth elemental elderly by reducing its size--its age doesn't change as its size decreases, but its threshold for old age does!

That's because he keeps the same number of wrinkles as he shrinks.

[Bananadine]

Whoooops I'd forgotten who held the Champion's Trident. Long live the memory of Sagtur!

[Bananadine]

I might have to delay a little, my car is messed up. :(

But if I do, I'll still take my turn today (it should only be a delay of a few hours I guess).

[Bananadine]

I didn't and won't delay after all.

However I'm now putting off my turn submission because an action by Gath will affect what I do and I need to know whether Gath will stale. HEY GATH TAKE YOUR TURN

[hoo]

will get turn in next hour or so

[djo]

I've been meaning to ask this for a while...is anyone winning this game? Is the end in sight? With graphs off, and having been cooped up one castle for a long time (scouts all dead), has left me with zero knowledge of the world at large.

[Gregstrom]

You've got me there.

[hoo]

There are some big fights going on. Is Ctis active? I thought he would have squished marignon by now!

[LDiCesare]

Squishing Marignon is not that easy. It's got lots and lots of damn SC's inside its castle, and building gear for my own sometimees results in dead mages, so it takes some time to bring enough forces to get rid of his capital. I spent a while taking down his other forts. Now I'm finally concentrating on that last fort and it's going to be an ugly fight soon.

[hoo]

One thing that has made this game interesting is that there's been a massive population dieoff. It's hard to recruit new armies. And you don't want to cast SC summoning spells right now. So all units are worth a lot more than they have been. So I think folks are being more conservative than usual!

[Executor]

No need to thank me for that. :p

[Bananadine]

Nice work, Nergal!

[Slobby]

AC is down... :o

[LDiCesare]

Yeah, finally...
It took me some time to get rid of those fallen angels and the oracle. The previous battle I had managed to kill a few, but this time I finally got them all. Nergal killed the prophet of the false god, and Asalluhe vanquished the oracle. Praised be their names!

[Gregstrom]

That was quite an impressive battle. I'm glad that the AC has gone, if somewhat less glad that I just lost yet another Starets to a random Doom Horror. Oh well, I guess that's how it goes.

[djo]

On this, the occasion of the 13th month and 80th turn of this game, I again pose the question: is anyone winning? Are we at a stalemate? Are empires not owned by AIs falling, or is everyone just sitting around?

[Slobby]

:angel After conferring with the most knowledgeable guru's of Patala, they foresee no immediate end to the ascencion war in sight.

[Bananadine]

Do you want everyone to reveal their plans?

[LDiCesare]

After finally getting rid of Marignon, I'm preparing myself to take over the world but I'm not ready yet as a certain spell prevented me from doing what I needed before.

[hoo]

I've shot my bolt as Gath at Atlantis. I laid siege to his capital and stormed his walls but died utterly. I have one or 2 tricks left but not much.

[Bananadine]

I did not expect the staling trick!

[Bananadine]

Thread about LlamaServer being down: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44190

[Bananadine]

Gath and Patala, have you sent your turn files in? If so, I will want to make a special effort to convince LlamaServer to host properly, since right now it claims to be missing those files. If not, then I won't mind as much if it hosts with two stale nations, since at least I would have the relief of knowing it's going to host at all.

[Slobby]

I did not send a turn file in.

[Bananadine]

Hm, well you might still have a chance?

[hoo]

I haven't...but i'm pretty done and llama is rather goofy atm

[Bananadine]

Okay, well if you've decided not to take any more turns then please send in a turn wherein you make yourself AI--I don't think I could find another substitute for Gath!

[djo]

Are we down to C'tis vs. Atlantis? Judging by forum chatter and what I can see, no one else looks like they are contending.

(My repeated questions are not trying to prematurely end the game (I can go one indefinitely), but I don't want to play if the game becomes post-mature.)

[Slobby]

Are we down to C'tis vs. Atlantis?

Nope ;)

[Bananadine]

Are we down to C'tis vs. Atlantis? Judging by forum chatter and what I can see, no one else looks like they are contending.

(My repeated questions are not trying to prematurely end the game (I can go one indefinitely), but I don't want to play if the game becomes post-mature.)

What is post-mature?

I've only finished one game that I personally hosted so far, and from that game, I learned that most dudes will not hold on until the end, and also (this is a separate, but related, fact) that a war becomes boring after a single leader has passed a certain threshold of success. I think that the victory point system can be used to ameliorate the latter problem, but we aren't using it here. So Mistletoe will eventually peter out in a mildly awkward fashion. (And, incidentally, I will aim to be the last one to leave, whether I'm winning or losing at the time, because I am crazy.)

Until then, some of us will continue to experience interesting battles!

[Bananadine]

Due to hoo's recent stales and seeming disinterest in continuing, I will make Gath AI myself, if we reach the last hour or so before hosting and it looks like the nation is about to stale again. Unless I forget, in which case I'll do it right after the hosting.

[djo]

The llamaserver's web page looks stuck again. Ermor's turn is in (hours ago) with confirming email.

[Bananadine]

Due to hoo's recent stales and seeming disinterest in continuing, I will make Gath AI myself, if we reach the last hour or so before hosting and it looks like the nation is about to stale again. Unless I forget, in which case I'll do it right after the hosting.

Well, I forgot (until the very last minute). I was distracted by an attempt to play the old game Master of Magic, which as far as I can tell is 100% obsoleted by some combination of Dominions III and Civilization IV. Disappointing!

Gath will become AI at the next opportunity.

[LDiCesare]

Why do AI's have to attack those they were at peace with and leave their enemies alone? Grrr...

[Gregstrom]

You're preaching to the converted here.

[Bananadine]

I am learning interesting things about spell interactions!

[Bananadine]

Nethgul is a tricky fellow.

[Bananadine]

Hail the mighty Rotflesh, who cut off the arm that held the Aegis!

[djo]

Ermor would like to thank Patala for the donation of the Aegis and other fine magic items. However, in the future, you may merely leave them on the doorstep and knock; these wargames we engage in are causing too much damage to the castle.

Sincerely,

Ermor, the eternal

[Bananadine]

Wow, Woundflame doesn't do what I thought it did, at all.

[vfb]

It might, depending on what you think it does. If you kill everything you hit, it won't do much. You need to be handing out some flesh wounds and scratches.

[Bananadine]

If that's true then I didn't know that either. But no, my misunderstanding was even more basic!

Still, it's mostly cleared up now. Along with some powerful mages, now deceased.

[LDiCesare]

I was quite surprised to see all those mages of yours die indeed. I wasn't surprised by my troops' fare though, since your SC is a real pain. I'll have to find something to throw at him, but underwater being doesn't help me much.

[Bananadine]

He would enjoy a bouquet of water lilies.