Sovarinthy - an EA game for somewhat busy people (in progress)

[Bananadine]

You may have noticed that I already have a "game for busy people" going. Why would a busy person want to be in two games? Well variety is important--I would rather be in two slow games than one relatively fast game, unless my nation in the fast game happens to be playing an extraordinarily interesting role. So, since I'm currently getting knocked out of Aquarium, here's another new slow game from me. :)

In this one I am going to try setting the turn delay to slightly over three days, and leaving it there forever. Science demands that we attempt these things!

Other settings: A large, wrapping map, no graphs, and... the Conceptual Balance Mod. I cannot stand doing anything in the normal way. :)

Who is with me?


Players:

Agartha - Ephraim
Atlantis - Caerun
Caelum - Pelthin
Ermor - yandav
Fomoria - Gregstrom
Hinnom - Bananadine
Kailasa - Alneyan
Lanka - Hoplosternum
Mictlan - Reverend Zombie
Pangaea - BesucherXia
R'lyeh - charshep
Sauromatia - slayers_ai

[Pelthin]

I'm game. A nice slow game would be awesome.

[Bananadine]

Okay well pick your nation! (I am even now picking mine.)

[Saarud]

This is just what I've been waiting for. I would love to join and if it is ok I'd like to play as Kailasa.

[Bananadine]

I'm gonna need Hinnom it turns out.

[Hoplosternum]

I would like to try Lanka please :)

[Pelthin]

How about Caelum, for a change of pace.

[Caerun]

Would like to join in, preferably as Atlantis.

For the record, though, I've not played an MP game of Dominions since Dom1 so I'll probably suck. A lot.

If that's ok, however, sign me up. :)

[Ephraim]

I'd like to try Agartha.

Guess that means I'll be sharing 2 games with the top banana, since I'm in Mistletoe as well.

[BesucherXia]

I'd like to give pangaea a try.

[Gregstrom]

Put me down for Fomoria, please.
Oh, btw: I'm running a couple of games with 4-day turns myself. It works quite nicely.

[Reverend Zombie]

Mictlan, please.

[Reverend Zombie]

Are we using CBM 1.3?

[Bananadine]

I don't know. I have only gone so far as to cavalierly decide to use the mod at all; I don't know anything about different versions of it. Is there a choice?

[charshep]

I love the idea of a slow game. Rlyeh please if there's still room.

[Hoplosternum]

Well my vote would be for CBM 1.3

It is the CBM mod now. It does remove the greater magic scale difference of 1.21 back to the normal game version but it balances some of the other scales.

The changes made were made after feedback from the earlier CBM versions and further experience of how the mod played and mp in general by the developers

Apart from that CBM 1.3 has the changes the developers of the mod wanted. To play any other CBM seems a little odd. It would be like playing the game but with the 3.10 patch. It would play but why deliberately choose something with less development in it unless you have some particular reason to do so?

[BesucherXia]

I have never used CBM before but would still enjoy it since I found almost every changes regading my races very helpful.
Yet if you were going to replace it with original version, I think it ok.

So I will keep neutral.

[slayers_ai]

count me in, Sauromatia, thanks:D

[Bananadine]

Apart from that CBM 1.3 has the changes the developers of the mod wanted. To play any other CBM seems a little odd. It would be like playing the game but with the 3.10 patch. It would play but why deliberately choose something with less development in it unless you have some particular reason to do so?

I don't know! That is generally my thought about any sort of software--use the latest version unless there is some very special reason not to. You're heading me off from taking a path that I did not know existed. :) Can I assume there is some kind of controversy about which version of CBM is best? Well I guess that makes sense; the nature of CBM is to express one group's solution to the problem of imbalance in the unmodified game, which is itself another group's idea of sufficient balance. It is inherently controversial.

Anyway yeah we'll use the latest one.

Wow, there are a lot of smilies in this editor.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
:eek::eek::eek::mad::eek::eek::mad::eek::eek::eek:
:eek::eek::eek::mad::eek::eek::mad::eek::eek::eek:
:eek::eek::eek::mad::eek::eek::mad::eek::eek::eek:
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
:eek::mad::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::mad::eek:
:eek::eek::mad::eek::eek::eek::eek::mad::eek::eek:
:eek::eek::eek::mad::mad::mad::mad::eek::eek::eek:
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[yandav]

I'd like to try ermor.

[Hoplosternum]

Well as far as I understand some of the earlier versions had more extensive changes.

Specifically the magic scale used to be +/- 1 per point so +3 for Magic 3. And some of the items and spells were made more difficult to get/cast e.g. Dwarven Hammers and I think some of the Gem generators.

These 'radical' changes were largely removed for 1.3 leaving the mod as mostly tweaks. But nearly all IMHO for the better.

Basically it makes scales you rarely pick (Luck, Production etc.) better. The Pretenders not usually picked (none Cyclops Titan types, Rainbows, many of the unloved 'nationals' etc.) better and so more viable. The battlefield spells you never caste because they are too expensive or inaccurate better. The Summons nobody uses (Drakes, Wyverns etc.) cheaper or for Leader types etc. Many of the magic items that are rarely used are made cheaper or forgeable earlier.

It also tweaks a few costs especially of Cavalry which is less Resource heavy and boosts the hoof attacks in many cases so they actually become quite useful. And Archers in general are slightly worse.

So the game with CBM1.3 won't be radically different, but the none optimal spell options/ pretenders/ troops etc are better and therefore the picks people make are likely to be more varied. It is therefore actually better for beginners as it 'softens' the less optimal picks.

[Bananadine]

Hmm well I am sick of Wyrms and Fire Brands or whatever they're called so that all sounds good to me. Do people really shy away from those cheap human-type pretenders? They seem pretty good to me already. I had a Freak Lord in Aquarium that was a terrible killer of men, despite his low hit point count and eventual plethora of crippling injuries. Anyway it'll be interesting to maybe see a few sea dogs for once!

I plan to start the game tonight sometime.

[Bananadine]

Here is the map. If you see major problems in it, please tell me. If you are troubled by minor quirks in it, please ask the Dominions 3 developers to allow automatic generation of wrapping maps. :)

[Bananadine]

I'm having some troubles getting the map onto LlamaServer, but anyhow you can still start making your pretenders. Note that you'll need CBM installed in order to do that, since the mod affects pretender forms. You can find it here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=621998&postcount=1

[Bananadine]

Okay I can't get the map up on LlamaServer (I'm using a modem and it keeps timing out). Can somebody do it for me? You just have to go here: http://www.llamaserver.net/uploadMap.cgi
and do what it says--upload the .map file, and then the .tga file, and then I guess you'll probably have to provide a description or something, I forget how it works but there's not much to it. Here, say this: This is a randomly created map, updated mostly trivially so that it wraps. It has 258 provinces and is 1400 x 1400 pixels large.

ALSO you have to tell it what post has the map attached. You can just follow the instructions the site gives you, it's easy. But anyway I think the ID it wants is this: 638215

If you decide to upload the map, please announce in the thread that you're doing it so that only one person actually tries it.

Thanks for any help. :(

[Hoplosternum]

I have tried but when I upload the .tga file I get this message:

Received file does not appear to be a valid image file. Please check you used the correct file and try again.

So I'm afraid I'm stuck.... You may want to contact Llama. Or if you are not completely wedded to the map pick another? The map appears to be a standard wrap around random. There are a number of them about the same size already on Llama. But of course you will then lose all the work you spent making the map.

PS. I think I am doing the uploading correct. The .map file works then when I upload the image (the .tga) it uploads but I get that error message.

[Hoplosternum]

I am sure someone else or Llamabeast himself will be able to help get the map uploaded. But if you decide to go for an alternative here are some choices already on LlamaServer.

Your map:

Sovarinthy: 233 land + 26 Sea (Wrap)

Possibles:

Alexander 247 Land + 43 Sea (Wrap). There are two water nations so extra sea is not bad perhaps?
Mistletoe 222 Land + 30 Sea (Wrap). A new 'random' set up for a game a week or two ago with very similar dimentions to yours.

None Wraps:

Glory of God Multiplayer: 227 land + 47 Sea. Very popular map.
AomOrc 3.01: 227 land + 32 Sea. If you like unusual graphic maps!

Orania has perhaps too little sea (just 20) but is a commonly used wrap about the same size. Or you could squeeze us all in to Cradle :)

[Saarud]

Ok so we are using CBM 1.3, right?

Worthy heroes is also a good mod that would be fun to include.

[Hoplosternum]

CBM 1.3 includes Worthy Heroes :)

[Bananadine]

Thanks for the attempt Hoplosternum. My map isn't that great, so I'll accept this as a training effort (I learned a few more things about how not to make random wrapping maps!) and use one of the maps you suggest. (I'll also send a message to llamabeast so he knows there's some kind of problem, but that need not delay this game.)

Anyway I like the looks of Alexander. Here's the link to that one: http://dom3maps.wikidot.com/system:alexander
Sorry for the confusion people!

Also, does anybody know what the logic is for whether you can edit a post? I seem to be able to edit some posts and not others, and I don't understand why. But in the meantime: HEY EVERYBODY PLEASE IGNORE THE MAP I UPLOADED AND USE ALEXANDER INSTEAD: http://dom3maps.wikidot.com/system:alexander

[Bananadine]

The game is up. Enable your CBM and send your gods!

[Gregstrom]

I am somewhat busy at the moment,and don't think I'll be able to get a god in for 24 hours or so. Sorry, all.

[charshep]

R'lyeh pretender sent.

[Bananadine]

Hmm LlamaServer is taking its time accepting my pretender.

[Bananadine]

Hm okay I sent it again but it's still not accepting it. Also it does not seem to be updating consistently.

[charshep]

Hmm, didn't seem to accept mine either. Anyone know what's going on?

[Bananadine]

It looks like the server is down for the moment. Most likely sunspots.

[Bananadine]

Oh apparently it is actually a hurricane (I was close).

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40430

[Pelthin]

Sent. Not sure if Llamaserver is up. :)

[Pelthin]

Doesn't look like the server is getting my email.

I will let you all know when it accepts the email message.

Thanks.

[Bananadine]

I wanted to play Dominions 3 today (I am not always busy!) and because LlamaServer was down I started a small game against three impossible-level AI's. Then I did pretty well for a long time, and came close to the point where I could maybe stop defending and start conquering, and then one of them busted through my defense, probably never to be pushed back again, so I immediately gave up. Three hours gone! SAVE US LLAMABEAST

[Gregstrom]

I think he's on holiday until the 20th...

[llamabeast]

Things should be working again now. Are they not?

Note that I've only just this minute got back, so I've not got to grips with things again yet. But I'm not yet aware of any remaining problems.

[llamabeast]

Aaahhh, rubbish, the server's exploded. See my "Server 'sploded" thread. Hopefully I'll have it all back online in the next day or two, sorry for the delay guys.

[Bananadine]

I played another single-player game, this time with a large map but only one opponent. I picked Abysia (EA) and naturally was pitted against R'lyeh. So I held off the slave troopers for years and years and slowly built a ludicrous thing: the level 5 Abysian water mage. Then I cast the requisite spell and sent my Burning Ones underwater where they very very slowly mowed down the enemy. And I won!

[Bananadine]

Hmm LlamaServer appears to have taken my pretender without telling me via e-mail that it did so. Well I guess that's okay.

[Hoplosternum]

I am trying to change my Pretender. But I get no confirmation so who knows what I will end up with :) It's good to have Llamabeast back :)

[Bananadine]

I would assume it accepted your new one, given what it did for me... but the site appears to allow me to delete pretenders, so I could delete yours and let you resend it if you want to be sure. (I've never used that function but it probably works as one would expect.) Otherwise yeah you'll just be surprised. :)

[Hoplosternum]

Hi Bananadine - please delete my Pretender and I'll resend. Thanks :)

[Bananadine]

Ok _

[Bananadine]

I did the same for myself to confirm. Yeah, it just seems like the server isn't sending e-mails. I wonder what that will mean after the game starts.

[Gregstrom]

It's sending turn files on other games, if that's any help.

[Hoplosternum]

Yes it's sending turn received files in the other game I am in. New Pretender sent :)

[Pelthin]

I sent in my Pretender again. Hopefully it get's through this time.

[Pelthin]

It worked, looks like the game can start. Sorry for being the last guy in.

[Bananadine]

No problem.

[BesucherXia]

I think the Rlyeh player has staled his second turn.
It's not a good start for us. Shall we look for sub or leave it AI if he also failed this turn?

[Pelthin]

Let's post for a sub, as it is so early and if that does not work out then we can always set to AI.

:)

[Bananadine]

I sent a message--if nothing comes of it pretty soon then we'll do what you suggest.

[charshep]

Sorry guys, had a busy week and for some reason thought I had until Saturday night.

[Bananadine]

Hooray, the prodigal Aboleth has returned!

[BesucherXia]

It's getting a little silent recently. Any news from the front?

[Bananadine]

Well Lanka appears to have gone vacationing to Kokytos or some such. :(

[Saarud]

Well it is supposed to be a a game for busy people. However for future games perhaps the first 10 or 15 turns should go in abit faster pace. :)

[Bananadine]

Yeah, I'll probably do that in the future. The only reason I'm mentioning Lanka is that they staled last turn... I sent a message; if another stale occurs I'll look for a substitute.

[Hoplosternum]

Hi I (Lanka) am back. I have taken my next turn. But feel free to boot me if you like.

I thought I would have internet access while I was away and took my Laptop with Dominions on with me. But in the end the wireless modem could get no signal.... :(

Hopefully I won't be too far behind after staling twice. At least I had a stack of cash to return too :)

[Bananadine]

Ah well I don't think we need such harsh discipline as to require the removal of somebody who had network problems but no longer has them. If I had actually found a substitute I would not steal the nation back from them (although I'd feel a bit badly that you lost it), but since I didn't, you're welcome to it! Just as long as somebody is taking the turns and trying to win. :)

[yandav]

I'm afraid that I won't be able to play from 29/10 to 1/11 ( or from 10/29 to 11/1 for US readers :) ). I will try to find a sub.

[Bananadine]

Sounds like you'll miss just one turn then? Tell me if you have a lot of trouble finding somebody--we can delay the turn for a day-ish if necessary, although it would be better not to.

[yandav]

I've already found someone but I'm not quite sure what I've got to do with the llamaserver.

[Bananadine]

Well I have to do it--there's a page in the "Admin options" for the game that allows changes to players' e-mail addresses, and a link on the main page that lets you resend a turn to anybody. That takes care of it. But only I can change the e-mail address.

So when the time comes, I will need your substitute's forum name, so I can talk to them if necessary, their e-mail address, so I can have the turn sent to them, and your e-mail address, so I can restore the nation to you when you come back.

[yandav]

I've just sent my orders. Olive will sub for me this week. I will send you his e-mail address by PM.

[Ephraim]

Hi All,
Sorry for the stale turn yesterday...I'm not quite sure what happened. I played my turn...and thought I sent it...but must not have. (grr for lost opportunities)

See you in game.

[Olive]

I've just sent my orders. Olive will sub for me this week. I will send you his e-mail address by PM.

Hi. I come in peace. :)

[yandav]

Well, I'm back to buisness!

[Bananadine]

Okay, I'll restore you once LlamaServer revives.

[Bananadine]

LlamaServer isn't accepting my admin password... all involved parties have been notified (including llamabeast via the thread about the server problems).

[Bananadine]

Okay, yandav is back for real now (I think). Whew! I sure have sent a lot of messages during this LlamaServer crisis.

[BesucherXia]

Everything seems to be ok now except that Caelum has left us. I guess this would increase the tempo a little.

[Bananadine]

Oh boy now Kailasa is slipping into a coma! I wish I could give out beepers or possibly Dominions 3-branded cellphones to everybody, so I could wake them up when they stop taking their turns. SHRAPNEL GAMES SHOULD PROVIDE THIS SERVICE

[Hoplosternum]

Hi All,

I have set my nation to AI and sent in my turn.

I have had a poor start and with some stale turns when I was away followed by another during the Llamaserver issues I am a long way behind.

I have had to take risks to grab even a few neutrals and this has cost me dear as I have lost a lot of troops to 'meeting' engagements with stronger neighbours. So I now have a small nation with little land and far too few troops for this stage of the game. There are no long or even medium term prospects for Lanka so there is no point looking for a sub. As I have many neighbours by quitting they all have an equal chance of sharing my lands rather than me 'choosing' who to try and fight. I would rather the AI made that choice as none have done anything bad to me in this game. Also it releases anyone who has an agreement with me from watching others eat me up, for thoose that stick to such agreements :)

Good luck everyone and enjoy the game

[Bananadine]

Ummm you know you can keep some of that stuff secret, in a game without score graphs.... :)

Well anyway thanks for playing.

[Bananadine]

Alneyan is the new Kailasa.

[Alneyan]

Alneyan is the new Kailasa.

Why can't I be the new black instead? It took me a bit of time to get through that first turn, as I was busy doing research and assessing the state of the union... and cursing whoever was in my seat before.

Still, you should all be advised that the Dance has resumed, now that someone has managed to find a new pair of pointe shoes for our prima ballerina. Please remain seated until the end of our performance, thank you!

If Kailasa has any agreement with your nation, please let me know and I'll see to it. Thanks :)

[Bananadine]

Lanka seems to be doing pretty well, for an abandoned nation!

[Alneyan]

Kailasa would like to warn all friendly nations that Sauromatia should be treated with the utmost caution. They have suddenly launched a treacherous attack on our borders, and you would be well advised to keep an eye on them lest you too should fall to a sneak attack.

According to our best information, Sauromatia has left their own borders poorly guarded, and we would be more than willing to offer gold, gems and items to any friendly power who might be rightly concerned by the Sauromatian threat on their own borders.

[yandav]

Hinnom has just declared war to ermor. I think that I will soon make a post in the thread " no more MP for hinnom " :hurt: :)

[BesucherXia]

The Hinnom must be stopped.

Pangaea hereby declare war on Hinnom. After the NAP3 is honored, the devil giants can expect my forces at turn 25.

[charshep]

I've sent in my turn for Saturday (turn 23) but I won't be available again until the following Thursday. I believe that's one day past when turn 24 will be due. Any chance we could move that date back a day?

[Bananadine]

Well it's 2 AM and I was just playing Deus Ex for like eight hours so I cannot answer your question now. I will sleep, and then answer it, scientifically.

[Gregstrom]

The original Deus Ex? If so, that was time well spent.

[Bananadine]

OKAY. I can think now. A delay of a day or two would be okay. I have sent myself a reminder to take care of this when the time comes.

[charshep]

Thanks

[Caerun]

8 hours on Deus Ex?

Pfft. Lightweight. :)

[Bananadine]

I hope that guy takes his turn soon (I guess he probably will).

[Bananadine]

Hinnom has an interest in accumulating a number of earth gems. Send offers to Hinnom.

[Alneyan]

And Lanka bites the dust! Hurray, it means my Kailasa isn't going to be the first one... phew! We're bleeding, though, with our rif-raff barely repelling the first Sauromatian assault on our capital.

I'd love to strangle whoever thought it'd be a good idea to pick a bless heavy imprisoned Pretender for Kailasa!

[BesucherXia]

Small correction: Caelum is the first one.
But right now the killer Hinnom has met a true challenger.

Yeah, the evil giant can kill hunderds of the lesser beings, but finally some maenads will come to his face and take their revenge.

[Bananadine]

It is true, Taurosatyricos is great! With his powerful mages, his dozens of provinces, and his eight fortresses (one in dispute), he truly is a being that other nations must envy. Surely even the Fomorians are kneeling at his borders, and the tritons on his shores!

[Alneyan]

Is anyone interested by a Ring of Sorcery? I've got one for sale, so let me know if that sounds like something you'd like to get for Christmas! It comes in a mint condition but we just need gems and money more than magic trinkets, and we will accept returns if the ring is deemed to be faulty (we can't cover horror summonings going awry, though).

The undead monkey people of Kailasa

[Bananadine]

EXECUTIVE DECISION: I delayed hosting twelve hours. Too much holiday travel etc. I took one turn during a long long car ride today, but could not bear to take two under such conditions. Feel free to respond to this action by sending Rings of Sorcery (or other magic items) to Hinnom, care of the playful winds of Hinnom.

[Bananadine]

Huh, I guess some others were in need of a delay as well.

[Alneyan]

Meanwhile Kailasa keeps on dancing... we're doing pointe work, though, and our legs are really starting to tire. If anybody would like to join our ballet and help crack the nutty Sauromatians (remember, they flay people... alive!)...

[BesucherXia]

The people of Pangaea are always willing to help their weak neighbors. But they are still struggling against other man-eaters. And the situation is dire: over 700 lives including their best leaders have been sacrifised within last 3 months just in exchange of 3 giants...

Heck. At least their courage should have kept those monsters from further invading.

[Bananadine]

Yes, and only about 100,000 female peasants remain in the Pangaean reserves. Can tax-free Hinnom afford the 500 warriors it will take to destroy them all? Well, perhaps in time.

[Bananadine]

Also, one of the giants in our latest fight has become feebleminded. Let's not forget that.

Incidentally, I am surprised and pleased to learn that the fire bola is actually pretty good, in some circumstances. With it, a mere Avvite priestess severely injured several centaurs, even destroying a few of them, before she herself was struck down by their brothers' pagan hooves.

[yandav]

Hello to all. I've got big problems with my internet connection and I won't be able to play the next turn at least. I've already stale the last turn so I think that it would be a good idea to search a sub for me or to set myself to AI. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience, I was having a lot of fun playing this game.
@ Bananadine: do you need my password?

[BesucherXia]

I think set a nation into AI will always spoil the fun, except he is dying and cannot do things much better than AI.

I have no idea if Ermor is currently fighting any neighbors, maybe just leave him staling a couple more turns while we try finding a replacement? Our new monkeyking has done quite well in subbing, I am looking forward to another lucky event like this.

[Bananadine]

Hello to all. I've got big problems with my internet connection and I won't be able to play the next turn at least. I've already stale the last turn so I think that it would be a good idea to search a sub for me or to set myself to AI. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience, I was having a lot of fun playing this game.
@ Bananadine: do you need my password?

I don't know what you mean by password. If you are leaving, then all I need is the e-mail address of some new player, somebody who could either play your turns or turn you into an AI.

It's been several hours since you announced your problem and you still haven't taken your turn, so I guess I'd better start looking for a substitute now. Do you know when you might be able to return? If you send me a message when you become able to play again, I could try to get you back into the game, unless your nation has been destroyed or set to AI by then.

Anyway, if you know a good substitute, please send me that person's e-mail address. But I'll start looking for one now.

[Bananadine]

I think set a nation into AI will always spoil the fun, except he is dying and cannot do things much better than AI.

I have no idea if Ermor is currently fighting any neighbors, maybe just leave him staling a couple more turns while we try finding a replacement? Our new monkeyking has done quite well in subbing, I am looking forward to another lucky event like this.

Yeah AI sucks. Whether or not Ermor is fighting now, it probably will be attacked soon if I give it to the AI. I'll try to find a substitute.

It's too bad that Lanka guy gave up. I think he could have done okay.

[yandav]

I think set a nation into AI will always spoil the fun, except he is dying and cannot do things much better than AI.

I have no idea if Ermor is currently fighting any neighbors, maybe just leave him staling a couple more turns while we try finding a replacement? Our new monkeyking has done quite well in subbing, I am looking forward to another lucky event like this.

Yeah AI sucks. Whether or not Ermor is fighting now, it probably will be attacked soon if I give it to the AI. I'll try to find a substitute.

It's too bad that Lanka guy gave up. I think he could have done okay.

I was at war against mictlan and, before my 2 stale turns, I think I wasn't in a bad position. Sorry for the extra work Bananadine and thanks again.

[Alneyan]

Okay, I'm on holidays right now and while I remembered to take my Dom CD, I forgot to take my CD-key with me. Oops. So, I can't play for Kailasa until I'm back on Wednesday. Sorry about that :(

It's not worth finding a sub for my nation as I'm so weak, and it's not worth waiting for me if I'm the only one missing. If Ermor isn't around either, though, it might make sense. Note that I'm effectively dead if I stale for too long, so setting me to AI would probably be best in that case.

[Bananadine]

Okay. Ermor still concerns me, but nobody is answering my substitute requests. Does anybody here know somebody who might be a good substitute? I don't really want to delay the turn... maybe I'll delay it a little and then set Ermor to AI.

[Bananadine]

Hmm, would it be bad to set Kailasa to AI and then make Alneyan the new Ermor? That would be a bit cheaty, for somebody to play two different nations, and it would require another stale from Ermor, but I think it would still be better than AI....

[BesucherXia]

Well, at least I am for that idea.

I think Alneyan has worked hard and fighted bravely to keep Kaliasa surviving. He derserves another chance to win.

I (Pangaea) am neighboring both Kaliasa and Ermor. To be honst I will benefit from it if Ermor is not easily defeated. But besides that, Pangaea has no special negotiation with either of them yet, thus feels it fair.

How about Sauromatia/Mictlans' mind?

[Bananadine]

Okay well not knowing what was best I made a judgment call in favor of the thing that would seem to make the game maximally interesting. Kailasa should be AI-controlled now; Alneyan has been offered the Caesar's seat or whatever of Ermor (subject to veto by other players). Ermor will stale this turn, and if Alneyan doesn't take the job I'll make them AI too.

[Reverend Zombie]

That's fine with me.

[yandav]

Hello to all. I've got big problems with my internet connection and I won't be able to play the next turn at least. I've already stale the last turn so I think that it would be a good idea to search a sub for me or to set myself to AI. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience, I was having a lot of fun playing this game.
@ Bananadine: do you need my password?

I don't know what you mean by password. If you are leaving, then all I need is the e-mail address of some new player, somebody who could either play your turns or turn you into an AI.


I put a password on my pretender because I forgot that it wasn't necessary with the llamaserver. The password is "connery".

[Bananadine]

Why was the turn delayed? Because I spilled water into my laptop.

[Gregstrom]

I hope none of the magic smoke escaped.

[Bananadine]

Alneyan has declined my offer. :(

[Bananadine]

Reverend Zombie has requested a delay.

[Bananadine]

Thanks to the playful priestesses of Pangaea, Barbas has begun a new lifelong hobby: meeting Horrors! He was approached by a friendly-looking one just this month, and immediately welcomed it with his sword, warping whatever prong it uses to walk and thus giving it a bad limp. It bravely continued to attack, and now Barbas has a little pile of ethereal claws and things that he has been showing off to all the other Rephaim. Hooray for Pangaea!

[charshep]

Sorry for the stale turn guys.

[Bananadine]

Poor Agartha. Normally the Rephaim would scoff at leaders unwilling to fight to the bitter end, but even they would have quailed, briefly, after such a decisive change in fortunes....

[Gregstrom]

By the way, that Melqart of yours seemed to be a little off the beaten track - did he get lost?

[Bananadine]

You are mistaken, plenty of beating has occurred there.

[Gregstrom]

I noticed that, and wouldn't like to speculate who came off better in the exchange.

[Bananadine]

Probably Atlantis

[Bananadine]

Praise Scox!

He was storming a fort with two of his brothers (one crippled), and only managed to bless himself and the cripple before the enemy augurs paralyzed them both for about 25 rounds. The other Rephaite charged forward and fought bravely, but was killed. Then the enemy light infantry advanced, and destroyed the cripple. But Scox, in his regenerating obesity, stood strong--and stood, and stood, and stood, somehow resisting all further attempts to extend his paralysis--and finally let loose with a triumphant flame eruption that destroyed the whole crowd of tiny humans around him! Immediately thereafter the enemy mages fled, and Scox composed a short battle-hymn about his exploits as he chased them from the fort.

It goes like this: Scox! Scox! Scoooox!

[Gregstrom]

Perhaps I should have tested Dance of the Morrigans before using it in battle.

[Bananadine]

Was there a problem?

[Bananadine]

Charbos the Pan died a very very frightened Pan indeed!

[BesucherXia]

Was there a problem?

Its fine. Its just too fine.

[Gregstrom]

I was a little surprised, yes. Still, I mustn't grumble :)

Ta to Pangaea for the freebies.

[BesucherXia]

Bravo for Morrigans. Now I have to think another strategy over.

Btw. the 72h quickhost is now making me quite pain. I have to use 4 hours in one day to place my army effectively, or round 2h/day*3days if I cannot afford such a long time in a day - its very likely since the game is supposed to be "for somewhat busy people".

Can you please extend the quickhost to 96h?

[Bananadine]

Haha! I was beginning to have that problem myself. I didn't want to be the first to say anything because I'd already stated that my plan was to leave it at about 3 days forever. In the future I will plan to be more flexible.

But 96 is unacceptable! I will increase it to 99.

[Bananadine]

Whoa, apparently llamabeast reset it to 48 hours. No wonder the next deadline seemed so soon!

(It was never actually 72--I started it at 77.)

[Bananadine]

CRAP I FORGOT MY TURN

But I remembered it with 30 minutes to spare. I just postponed hosting for 2 hours and will take it immediately. Sorry folks!

[Bananadine]

Taurosatyricos must now step aside, for there is a new greatest warrior.

Unrelated: It turns out that paralyzed were-jaguars look very much like werewolves! How confusing.

[Bananadine]

Hmm, Morrigans are pretty good.

[BesucherXia]

A bloody battle. Hmmm... now I have some idea why they call Fom a powerhouse.

To be honost, I was not caring about Hinnoms attack, just because I believed the outcome of that battle might even settle the whole game.

[Bananadine]

Don't you go and quit now!

[BesucherXia]

Whow, then you may bribe me to keep fighting him.

[Bananadine]

Are you only saying that you think Pangaea can't survive unless Hinnom helps in the fight with Fomoria? If so, then I accept your message, and it will certainly influence my next move. (Until now, I thought you were winning!)

But if you are saying that you will quit playing unless I do something differently in the game, then I don't think I can help you, because the game I am playing is about gods, and gods don't quit! (I would still prefer that you stay, but of course you can do as you wish. :) )

[Gregstrom]

The battle seemed exceedingly painful for both sides - I know I'm hurting from it. I really don't see how it could alter the outcome of the game, though. Pan still has 4 of 5 globals and a land area that dwarfs me, pretty much all the blood uniques from the look of it, and hordes more battlemages. The only troops lost were Maenad chaff, which is hardly a big deal.

On the more cheerful side, I hadn't even rated myself third in overall power so I'm quite pleased to think I'm regarded as dangerous.

I wasn't expecting all that air magic to show up, by the way. Nice one.

[BesucherXia]

That's not becuase of the outcome itself, but some mistakes that make me disappointed. I have planned for that battle long, but still failed to foresee something. Blood Communion is so hard to handle.

Pangaea has wasted about 70 gems and 120 blood slaves in that single battle, including 2 unique items and 1 Heliophagu which are hard to compensate. Also I believe that province is critical to the big picture.

Anyway, I never said I would quit. More battles awaits.

[Bananadine]

Okay I feel better then! Now let's all kill one another. Except for those kindly aboleths, who are set upon creating a peaceful undersea commune where all are brothers and love drifts upon the currents.

[charshep]

Okay I feel better then! Now let's all kill one another. Except for those kindly aboleths, who are set upon creating a peaceful undersea commune where all are brothers and love drifts upon the currents.

:)

Don't mind us. We are simple, peace loving folk.

[Bananadine]

Nagot gick fel!

Presumably you all got the same message from LlamaServer as I did. As I understand it, we can now do one of two things:

1) Roll back the turn, destroy any .2h files related to it, and redo it.
2) Accept the stale and play the new turn.

Either way, I'll probably do most of the same things as I did the first time. The strategic situation has changed, but probably not enough to deeply change my plans. So I could go either way. Does anybody else have a strong opinion? Have there been any disasters that you would have avoided if not for this?

It's hardly any extra trouble for me to roll the turn back. Thoughts?

[BesucherXia]

I have experienced alike situation in another game months ago. We did roll back once, but we still failed to generate the new turn and finally accepted it.

To be worse, the same error happened again just after we had received another turn successfully.
After that, we decided to abandon the game and report it to llama and illwinter.

I once thought this issure was resolved since it is mentioned in the current changelog. So you shouldn't take that story too serious. But an error reporting to llama seems to be necessary.

[Gregstrom]

It's not just happening in this game - Preponderance seems to have something similar going on too. I'm hoping it's a coincidence rather than llamaserver issues.

[Gregstrom]

I'd like to try a rollback at least once, if possible.

[Bananadine]

I did it.

My intention is to open two copies of Dominions in two windows. Then I will attempt the following:
Load my old moves for turn 61 in one of them (from the old, bad .2h file).
Delete the old, bad .2h file.
Open turn 61 in the second window and make my moves there, while looking at the first window for reference.
End the turn in the second window, creating a new, clean .2h file.
Send the new .2h file to LlamaServer.
Close the first window, saving nothing from it.

Hm actually here is a safer plan:
Set up my .trn and .2h files so that I can immediately open my old moves for turn 61.
Leave Dominions open, with those moves showing.
Copy the whole program directory.
Delete the .2h file in the copy.
Open Dominions in a new window, from the copied directory.
Make my moves in the new window.

I'm just speculating here. But anyway it seems like we can do this without TOO much trouble if we are clever.

[Bananadine]

Mist does not seem to be a very good spell.

[Gregstrom]

That may depend on what you're using it for. Although Storm is often more useful, I agree.

[Bananadine]

Well, I guess it reduced the range of enemy spells and missiles, as advertised. But then it stopped working because the guy who cast it was killed by an enemy spell or missile, even though he was standing in the back, in some mist.

[Gregstrom]

Well, I now have 2000-odd maenads bottled up in a castle. Are they going to hide away behind locked doors like cowards, or are they going to come out and massacre me in a fair fight?

Only time will tell...

[BesucherXia]

Mist will only halve the precision, and even can not effect the precision bonus from experience and magic too much.

I believe the key point is Hinnom should have separated their formation to avoid the missiles, or even cast arrow fend. Too shame if they have not researched that given such a late phase.

For the fomorian fronts: everyone should understand that organizing over 2000 maenads is a great burden for the leader, so it is reasonable to save energie if it is obvious things will just remain the same whether trying or not, right?

[Gregstrom]

I take it that means a lock-in for the nude warrior women then?

One question occurs: They're in a castle under siege. No-one gets in or out. Where do the extra women come from each month?

[Bananadine]

They become stealthy upon first hearing the Panic tunes (distantly, from beyond the walls of the castle) and they sneak in. (After that they finish going wild and lose their stealth.)

[Bananadine]

(I just made that up, I don't know exactly how maenads work or even which castle you're talking about.)

[Bananadine]

Ah, yes, the game manual does say Mist only reduces precision. The in-game description is wrong! Well, now I have a painful defeat to look back on, so that I can remember it better in the future. Look out, future opponents!

[Gregstrom]

Well, after that I might as well give up. I must have killed nigh on a thousand maenads, but that castle isn't even getting scratched. At least it took the edge off your harrassment attack for the turn...

[BesucherXia]

Do you mean give up sieging or the whole game? I believe while you are wasting so many units waiting outside the wall for months, Pans have swarmed over any other corners of the world. So with each turned passed, the chance of turning the game seems less for Hinnom and Fomorian.

But even pan has still a long way to go before victory.- I havn't any plan to defeat Morrigans in the open field yet.

[Bananadine]

As Bifrons went, so will go Pangaea!

[BesucherXia]

Hmmm... seems to be some small victories for Hinnom. Finally they have got good news to celebrate.
Thanks to those 4000+ maenads, I have to spend more than 8 hours for one turn, and can not deal with every battle well. Now I believe the last and yet the biggest enemy in this game is myself.

[Bananadine]

:(

This map is a pretty big map, isn't it?

Well, all enemies will be defeated soon enough.

[Bananadine]

Seriously, though--8 hours is a LOT! Now, I am not ready to give up, and I don't know whether Gregstrom is. In fact, I would like to fight to the end, no matter who wins. So, you cannot hope that the rest of us would rather concede than slowly, painfully lose. Because I will not concede for that reason--I would rather slowly lose!

But I don't want to punish you for doing well! And if Pangaea were obviously going to win (which seems impossible now that you have lost Bifrons), then I would consider conceding in order to prevent you from having to spend your whole life playing this game. I do want everybody to have fun.

In the future, I think I will not use such big maps. :)

[BesucherXia]

Losing one of the ice devils one turn is quite acceptable for me, since I have enough blood slaves income to spend. But to carefully forge stuffs without filling my lab out is a much bigger pain.

Next time I will definitely suggest using VPs for large games.

This game is quite fun for me anyway.

[Bananadine]

Ah yes I forgot about VP's. I will consider that.

[Gregstrom]

Oh arse - I staled. Unsanity has unexpectedly turned into a nightmare of complex bugs and cobbled-together fixes, which is eating all my time.

tbh, I'm pretty messed up anyway, and have insufficient capability to put up adequate defence or offence any more. I should have done a lot of things differently about 15-20 turns ago... but that's life, I guess.

[Bananadine]

You fail to consider the effect on Pangaea of the loss of one of its ice devils.

Without Bifrons to excite them with his icy tunes, the maenads will all be surrendering soon.

[Gregstrom]

Well, I don't mind trying to make Pan's victory slow and painful for a while.

[charshep]

Anyone mind if I go AI?

[Bananadine]

I do--it is my general preference that people don't go AI, even if they're sure they will lose! But it's up to you. I won't be mad at you or anything. :) (Also thanks for asking. People usually just disappear!)

[Gregstrom]

I was half-expecting the next thing I heard from R'lyeh to be a series of wishes for Armageddon, not a request to go AI.

[BesucherXia]

I have watched the long stalemate in the water and concluded the victor will not not be a big threat to the land.
Striving to win my first game, I will welcome rlyehs decision. Hope he had enjoyed the game, and we could see each other again in another game.

p.s someone is looking for "Armageddon"? the bad news is I have forgotten how to spell this magical word, the good news is now he has reminded me. Now I wouldn't mind starting counting down, lets keep some gold reserves before I finally rasie a S9, shall we?

[charshep]

I do--it is my general preference that people don't go AI, even if they're sure they will lose! But it's up to you. I won't be mad at you or anything. :) (Also thanks for asking. People usually just disappear!)

Alright, I'll hang in for as long as I can.

[Bananadine]

A lot of blood mages made a lot of bad decisions this month! They certainly don't know how to deal well with the horrors that are always coming for them.

Well, at least one horror will found out what the Inferno is like!

[charshep]

Sorry for the stale last turn. I'll get the next one in.

[charshep]

Sorry, I'm going to need an extension. Won't have a chance to get to my turn until tonight (I'm -8 GMT).

[Bananadine]

Okay, by my rough and probably erroneous calculation that means you need at most seven hours, which I have provided.

[charshep]

Sorry everyone I'm trying to be a good Dominions citizen but I'm just too busy at work right now to get turns in consistently. I'm either going to have to go AI or someone is going to have to take over for me. Let me know which it's going to be.

Anyways, I had a lot of fun playing. I'll see you all again in some future game.

[Bananadine]

Well, I have trouble finding substitutes even in excellent situations (as for Ermor in this game), so I probably could not find one for you now. You may as well go AI. Thanks for playing!

[Bananadine]

Hmm. I just now postponed hosting, at the last possible interval, so that I could set R'lyeh to AI myself, since the nation was about to stale and it's clear that that matches charshep's intentions well enough.

But it turned out that R'lyeh was password-protected, so I could not make the change. Now we are stuck with staling R'lyeh until charshep intervenes! I will send an appropriate private message.

[Gregstrom]

The game master password should let you set R'lyeh to AI yourself, I think.

[Bananadine]

I have a password for the LlamaServer instance of the game, but not for the game itself... I know how to set a nation to AI by routing its turn to me, opening the turn in the game (with my eyes shielded), pressing Escape to go into the menu, and choosing to make it AI. LlamaServer says this is the way to do it. According to my understanding, this requires the player's password, if the player set a password.

[Bananadine]

R'lyeh is fixed.

[BesucherXia]

This weekend was busy as hell, and I am not sure I can finish my turn tomorrow evening. Could you please extend 12 hours so that I can make use of tuesday evening? Thanks.

[BesucherXia]

Hmmm... Two more SCs were lost in this war. But pangaea is still processing to its goals.
I am hesittaed to ask this, but if others are also losing interests in continuing the game, I would not mind stopping it either.

It is a very impressive game though.

[Bananadine]

Like I said before, Hinnom will never give up! ...But if you find it boring or painful enough to continue that you must quit, then it would be pretty silly of me to pretend I've beaten you. :)

And, although my willingness to play a nation until it's destroyed borders on insanity, I will definitely try to make things more pleasant for the winner, in future games that I host--by making the map smaller, or the victory conditions looser, or both.

[Bananadine]

To clarify: I'm specifically interested in the idea of taking the game seriously enough that nobody ever quits. I want to do that, and I want to play with others who do that. And now I am finding out what happens when you do that. It does feel silly to finish this game, but sometimes doing silly things helps you learn!

I swear I could have saved Agartha's capital from Fomoria, if the guy had just stayed around for one more turn! I had about a dozen rings of tamed lightning all ready for his super-powerful earth mages to wear. But instead he lost interest, and staled on the exact turn when my offer of the rings reached him, so that when his mages retaliated they had no defense against lightning and they were slaughtered. People should not give up!

(Granted, a strong Agartha to rival Fomoria might only have made Pangaea's ascension easier, but the principle stands.)

Of course both of you guys have already played the way I want people to play; if you want to quit now that's fine. I will stay until the end.

[Gregstrom]

I have to admit I thought Agartha gave up a little quickly - I'd only taken two of his provinces. However, I think very little other than an alliance of most of the remaining players against Pangaea would have actually changed the outcome of the game.

[BesucherXia]

I beileve its because seeing Fomoria so esaily destroying Agartha that made the sauromatia give up, also forced Pangaea to enter this area. Fom had army decent enough to block Pangaea and had driven Pangaea to avoid a war in the openfield, it was due to the gap left by Sauromatia that finally let Pangaea overrun the borders.

I am no longer the guy enjoying playing against impossible AIs in huge map until ascension. At this point I know everything is just a matter of time and it can not be called a war anymore - like the two SCs lost in last turn, the major issue for me is only to calculate which gears should be forged again and how to cut the item list short in the lab. Thats not about challenge or strategy, just about working.

In my all Dom games I have never surrendered a single one, yet I have also never played a game using so much time. (say 5-6 hours just to finish the move without much thought in one turn, and its quite usual to script for one battle for extra hours.) Now I hear Fom is ready to surrender, I beilieve its the best time to save the fun and discuss some other things of this game. This will also improve your dom skills far more than just clicking against some AIs. (also improve my English):)

[Bananadine]

I have to admit I thought Agartha gave up a little quickly - I'd only taken two of his provinces. However, I think very little other than an alliance of most of the remaining players against Pangaea would have actually changed the outcome of the game.

Yeah, maybe. But at the time, I thought you were the strongest nation, and therefore that if you took Agartha, you might become too strong to stop. If my assessment of the situation had been correct, then rescuing Agartha with my lightning rings would have improved my chance of winning, and whether I was right or wrong, accepting my offer certainly would have improved Agartha's chance of winning. As it turned out, I was wrong to think that Fomoria was the most dangerous nation--but I was right to think that, if I were going to win, then the world must remain in balance until I was strong enough to take over!

If we had all tried to keep our rivals in balance, and if we had all accurately estimated the strengths of the nations, then at some point everyone except Pangaea would have attacked Pangaea. Accurately estimating someone's strength is something one naturally learns to do over many games. But keeping rivals in balance is not something you'll ever learn, if you always focus on your local situation, ignore the greater world, and give up as soon as it looks like your local war is going to destroy you!

Now I hear Fom is ready to surrender, I beilieve its the best time to save the fun and discuss some other things of this game.

Hm yes.

I have learned some important things:

Hinnom is very, very strong.

Hinnom with a super-powerful blessing is probably not as strong as Hinnom with a weaker blessing... but it sure is fun!

In general, super-powerful blessings are not as strong as they appeared to me to be, before I played this game. I was unstoppable at the start, and at that point I could have crushed whoever I attacked, except R'lyeh. But I researched very slowly, due to my limited gold and resources and my drain scale, and now my mighty Rephaim are almost useless. It pleases me that the blessing system is balanced in this way.

EA Pangaea is VERY strong, if it has the chance to grow large.

Blood Vengeance is good... but it's not as good as I thought it was. (I wanted to use it to save my nation, once the numerous Pans and maenads became able to overcome my Rephaim, but that didn't work out--I guess I'd have been better off trying to summon more Grigori!)

The spell that sends a monster boar to terrorize a province (until it is found and killed) can be devastating. BesucherXia, I did not say anything about this when it happened (because I didn't want to encourage you to keep casting that spell), but when you sent several boars to raise unrest in my capital, it crippled me for several months! Even when I stopped taxing the people there, unrest was uncontrollable. The only way I was able to catch the boars was by rapidly researching Watcher, and then empowering an air Ammi in earth and air so that he could cast that spell, and then sending out a few Watchers to patrol. During most of the lengthy time this took, I was unable to recruit my strongest units, and of course I had no income from my capital. That spell can be extremely strong! (Of course, it wouldn't have been as powerful against me if I hadn't been relying so heavily on units that could only be recruited in the capitol. But even so, there are probably many situations in which you could badly hurt somebody by sending several monster boars into some key province of theirs!)

Hunting for blood slaves in one's capital is actually not a bad idea, when you don't get much money there anyway (due to poor scales) and on top of that all of your capital-only commanders raise unrest as soon as they're recruited because they are enormous, tyrannical man-eaters.

Caelum has a strong capitol fortress, and besieging it takes FOREVER.

I don't like entering into NAP's. I hate breaking my promises, so once I'm in a pact I feel like I must obey its terms--but it's hard to keep track of exactly when the pact ends, and anyhow, I am better at improvising than I am at making rigid plans, so chaos favors me more than order does... and entering into an NAP decreases chaos. I had trouble with a pact that BesucherXia and I made, because we unknowingly entered it with conflicting ideas about how long it should last, and then later I had trouble with a pact I made with Mictlan, because I miscounted the turns and attacked them when I wasn't supposed to. In fact that attack ended up killing their god (I think you saw that one Gregstrom!), and afterward I felt so badly about breaking a pact AND killing a god that I repaid Mictlan with a Ring of Wizardry. Which was expensive. In the future, I might make casual peace agreements that have no exact terms, but I will not enter any more NAP's!

[Gregstrom]

I learnt that Fomoria is definitely more powerful than I thought it was, although its magic diversity genuinely sucks. And I learnt that they really need a lot more air gems than I was getting. I should have put up the gem generator global rather than getting 2 Air Queens, really.

[BesucherXia]

Check the Hall of Fame, and you will find Pangaea is not so great. I guess its because I have taken more lands and found some really nice sites in the early turns that granted me chance.

Monstor boar is ok. I had calculated its effect and made a detail plan before sending them, also combined with toad rains to ensure your capitol with 100+ unrests. But they are not cheap. As I saw you have found the best solution - Watchers, I just decided to enter next phase and save gems for thugs/GE/items. Beileve me I once planned to capture your lands, and I did not want them fully ruined either- thats why I did not send them everywhere.

We all know its hard to capture a capitol, but the reward pays off. I beileve Hinnom should have sent more armys conquering the indy provinces when the victory is ensured. You do not need an elite army to fight the walls.

Another lesson learnt from this game: do not waste too much time "manipulating the balance". If you really have enough power, hide it and get more. I think hinnom had not learnt too much from the first Hinnom-Pangaea war. Using archer against maenads is feasible, but you had also seen my Air mages long before. Like what Fomoria had done to block my advance, you need multiple armys strong enough to destory the maenads, and you need to control the lost in each battle. After all, you were too late to summon your angels, and the GE you casted is not very useful against maenads at all. The summoned assassins are also a great waste, why not save them for your SCs and Faerie Queen?

[Bananadine]

Check the Hall of Fame, and you will find Pangaea is not so great. I guess its because I have taken more lands and found some really nice sites in the early turns that granted me chance.

Yes, this map is full of nice sites! Almost too full... I had two libraries for a long while--without those I might have done very badly. I also made lots of owl feather things and skull mentors though.

Monstor boar is ok. I had calculated its effect and made a detail plan before sending them, also combined with toad rains to ensure your capitol with 100+ unrests. But they are not cheap.

That's good to know! I would be especially afraid of a spell that strong, if it were cheap!

As I saw you have found the best solution - Watchers, I just decided to enter next phase and save gems for thugs/GE/items. Beileve me I once planned to capture your lands, and I did not want them fully ruined either- thats why I did not send them everywhere.

Haha I did a pretty good job of ruining my own lands, with my death scales and bad luck and blood hunting and man-eating. I remember that just before you entered one of those highly populous provinces near Egypt--I think it was Memphis or something? (my game isn't open right now)--there was a random plague there that killed half the people. Many thousands died!

We all know its hard to capture a capitol, but the reward pays off. I beileve Hinnom should have sent more armys conquering the indy provinces when the victory is ensured. You do not need an elite army to fight the walls.

Yeah. I thought the Rephaim would only need to hang out there for a little while--I recruited horn-blowers as fast as I could, to help bring down the walls, but my income was low and I needed the money for more Rephaim, too, since I only had one fortress for recruiting both kinds of units. (Even after that, I never built a single fortress!)

Like what Fomoria had done to block my advance, you need multiple armys strong enough to destory the maenads, and you need to control the lost in each battle. After all, you were too late to summon your angels, and the GE you casted is not very useful against maenads at all. The summoned assassins are also a great waste, why not save them for your SCs and Faerie Queen?

Yes, I wasn't well prepared to fight you--the whole time I'd been expecting Fomoria to eventually become our main foe. Also I was intending to use fire magic, assassins, and high-level blood spells against you, but I mostly didn't quite manage to use the fire, and as you point out, the assassins and blood spells weren't as useful as I'd planned. And I still haven't used the expensive ether warriors I summoned. (This was the first time I'd gotten so far into a game, so I hadn't cast most of these spells before!) I'd expected to give shrouds of the battle saint to my assassins, but then they turned out to be unable to wear armor, due to their wings! A disappointment.

I also hadn't realized the Grigori would be so strong. Several of those would have been great!

[Gregstrom]

Yes, I wasn't well prepared to fight you--the whole time I'd been expecting Fomoria to eventually become our main foe.


Obviously I had privileged information about my own status, but there were a couple of giveaways that Pan were stronger than I was - they had about twice the territory I had (therefore ~2x the gem income), and 4 out of 5 globals.


Also I was intending to use fire magic, assassins, and high-level blood spells against you, but I mostly didn't quite manage to use the fire, and as you point out, the assassins and blood spells weren't as useful as I'd planned. And I still haven't used the expensive ether warriors I summoned. (This was the first time I'd gotten so far into a game, so I hadn't cast most of these spells before!) I'd expected to give shrouds of the battle saint to my assassins, but then they turned out to be unable to wear armor, due to their wings! A disappointment.



Assassins are generally considered not so good, it's true. And against Pan, who get some very useful patrollers...

Ether Warriors are decent thug-equivalents, and their leader can get you useful diversity.

[BesucherXia]

Yes, this map is full of nice sites! Almost too full... I had two libraries for a long while--without those I might have done very badly. I also made lots of owl feather things and skull mentors though.

Those two sites are placed by default. Its shamed to see Lanka quit so early, becuase one of them is just beside his capitel. But I agree this map is really full of interesting sites. I got 2 sites of AS mages, agar got the wizard, fom got the DSB guys, and the enchantness/magus is almost everywhere. My most favorite is a Blood-40 bonus. You could have guessed why I could afford almost every blood unique summons.

Haha I did a pretty good job of ruining my own lands, with my death scales and bad luck and blood hunting and man-eating. I remember that just before you entered one of those highly populous provinces near Egypt--I think it was Memphis or something? (my game isn't open right now)--there was a random plague there that killed half the people. Many thousands died!

Thats expected. So I did not continue the first war, otherwise I would be the target too obviously.

I'd expected to give shrouds of the battle saint to my assassins, but then they turned out to be unable to wear armor, due to their wings! A disappointment.

They need to be nude to seduce, thats my opinion. Assassin with uber bless is a good idea though. Not sure if the S9 bless is useful against Mind Hunts.


I also hadn't realized the Grigori would be so strong. Several of those would have been great!

If they had appeared about 10 turns earlier, I would have not too much resources to deal with them. Most of my SCs were busy in the Formoria/Sauromatia and I could not afford teleporting squads yet.
After the situation was stable, even air queens are no more important for me.

[BesucherXia]

Shall we declare the game is over now?

[Gregstrom]

Fine by me.

[Bananadine]

Oh all right Pangaea wins. :)

[Bananadine]

It was impressive that three nations disappeared at once.

[Bananadine]

OK I've digested my game administration experience. The result: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43513

Thanks for playing, fellow non-quitters, and please consider joining my new game!

(Well technically Gregstrom quit but that was an extreme case!)

[Gregstrom]

Sorry about that - after the discussion about lessons learnt from the game, I assumed it was being wrapped up. As a result, I wasn't too worried about getting turns done. My bad.

[Bananadine]

It effectively was being wrapped up--all that was left was my and BesucherXia's insane willingness to continue playing in spite of Pangaea's just-about-inevitable future victory. We had a few cool battles after that point, but it was still kinda silly to go on. If I'd been especially concerned about your surrender I would have hassled you about it!

[BesucherXia]

Sorry guys, I donnot think I have more time for this new game. Right now I am running my war against the degree paper, and even sleeping is quite precious now...

Technically speaking, the "surrender" of Fom had not affected the siege of Hinnom much. I had planned round 2 armies with comparable strength against two major nations, plus 3 minor armies against the 3 AIs. After the lose of Fom that army just laid idle - they would need at least 10 turns to reach the new front, enough long to organize a new one.

Last two battles were quite impressive, I lost quite a group of units too. But to be honest, even under that lost my total number of freespawns was still increasing. - Pan can be reciuited everywhere, and with the GE I had over 40k incomes for them... I once planned to make another blow using 600 freespawns+Glowing Fury+Life after Death, just to clear room for some incoming "true army" or buy time for another dominion kill(thats why no big mages had joined the attack). Didn't expect the Hinnom's lost on that turn either.