What SC do you wish for?

[Epaminondas]

I am trying to diversify from Seraphs. So I've begun to wish for 4-armed pretenders. Who or what else is powerful enough to waste 100 Astral gems on? :)

[Epaminondas]

I recall someone wishing for Rudra; but wouldn't 4-armed Pretenders better? Or are the resistance bonuses from the Rudra off-set the hit points deficit?

[Epaminondas]

Oh, I also wish for Mother of Rivers as a Niefel Flames launcher :)

[Sombre]

The Chayot is a solid wish. At least as good as te seraph.

[Baalz]

I recall someone wishing for Rudra; but wouldn't 4-armed Pretenders better? Or are the resistance bonuses from the Rudra off-set the hit points deficit?

Rudra has 3f 3d 3a, which pretender chasises don't. The hps are lower, but the magic paths much higher and of very useful paths (you can cloud trapeze, but not be magic dueled). You've also got flying including stormflight, immunity to lighting and fire and a fear aura.

[Falkor]

Mandaha is another candidate for a good SC. 3A, 3D, 2B, 3H, auto darkness, auto sleep cloud, flying, sacred, fear aura, all slots.

[Epaminondas]

I recall someone wishing for Rudra; but wouldn't 4-armed Pretenders better? Or are the resistance bonuses from the Rudra off-set the hit points deficit?

Rudra has 3f 3d 3a, which pretender chasises don't. The hps are lower, but the magic paths much higher and of very useful paths (you can cloud trapeze, but not be magic dueled). You've also got flying including stormflight, immunity to lighting and fire and a fear aura.

I guess you are right. Also HPs can be easily made up by Wishing "power"--and Astral gems ought to be abundant at that point.

[Epaminondas]

The Chayot is a solid wish. At least as good as te seraph.

I will Wish that one next--thanks!

[Epaminondas]

Mandaha is another candidate for a good SC. 3A, 3D, 2B, 3H, auto darkness, auto sleep cloud, flying, sacred, fear aura, all slots.

Nice. Just got him.

[Skirmisher]

Where /how is all this wishing taking place? You mean in the game you can wish for stuff?

[Epaminondas]

Where /how is all this wishing taking place? You mean in the game you can wish for stuff?

Yes. I am play a single player game against 11 Mighty opponents.

[HoneyBadger]

I wish...heh...that there were wish-forms for Pretenders. Like, if you were to wish for a Cyclops, he'd come with atleast enough magic to make him comparable to the high level wishable summons. The Pretender chassis would be separate from Wishes, and it would open up a much, much wider selection of good SC's to wish for. National Pretenders could be Unique-and if already selected as Pretenders-Unwishable-giving another reason for Nations to take their own Pretenders, since it keeps them out of enemy hands.

[Aezeal]

Well I think a Oni-Dragon might be a decent idea myself :D

[Edratman]

Where /how is all this wishing taking place? You mean in the game you can wish for stuff?

Wish is Aleration 9 ritual spell requiring requiring an S9 mage and 100 pearls.

There are many threads in the forum about what you can and cannot wish for.:)

[Skirmisher]

Where /how is all this wishing taking place? You mean in the game you can wish for stuff?

Wish is Aleration 9 ritual spell requiring requiring an S9 mage and 100 pearls.

There are many threads in the forum about what you can and cannot wish for.:)

Thanks I haven't survived long enough yet but good to know.:up:

[Epaminondas]

Where /how is all this wishing taking place? You mean in the game you can wish for stuff?

Wish is Aleration 9 ritual spell requiring requiring an S9 mage and 100 pearls.

There are many threads in the forum about what you can and cannot wish for.:)

Thanks I haven't survived long enough yet but good to know.:up:

It's a uber-powerful spell. I actually think some of the things you can Wish for is plainly over-powered. For instance, you can Wish "magic power" and get 1 level of magic level each. All for just 100 Astral gems. Compare that to what it would require you to get a level 9 mage in every paths to level 10 in every paths. Over 1000 gems altogether?!

[Epaminondas]

ROFL, I tried to Wish for a Grigori, and I ended up getting a weak dude with a head scarf.

[Kristoffer O]

ROFL, I tried to Wish for a Grigori, and I ended up getting a weak dude with a head scarf.

But he has the longest lifespan in the game :)

Unfortunately, he has other business to attend to and will leave your service in a couple of months.

[Edratman]

[QUOTE=Skirmisher;639373
Thanks I haven't survived long enough yet but good to know.:up:[/QUOTE]

If you want to fully experience the magic possibilities, try the mod "Gem Valley".

To win you will have to use magic, rituals, battle magic and summons, because the recruitables are limited, weak and quite vulnerable. But the mages are very powerful, if wild, and you have the means to access enough gems to fulfill your wildest magic dreams.

All spells and items, excluding anything related to blood, are possible, but not guaranteed.

Updated to Ver 1.2 today.

The above message brought to you by the "School of Shameless Self Promotion". :D

[JaghataiKhan]

[QUOTE=Skirmisher;639373
Thanks I haven't survived long enough yet but good to know.:up:

If you want to fully experience the magic possibilities, try the mod "Gem Valley".

To win you will have to use magic, rituals, battle magic and summons, because the recruitables are limited, weak and quite vulnerable. But the mages are very powerful, if wild, and you have the means to access enough gems to fulfill your wildest magic dreams.

All spells and items, excluding anything related to blood, are possible, but not guaranteed.

Updated to Ver 1.2 today.

The above message brought to you by the "School of Shameless Self Promotion". :D[/QUOTE]

Sounds interesting. But how will Ulm play? Ulm ME is simply a nonmagic war machine, a Nichtzauberpanzer :D

[Edratman]

There is one way to find out. Try it.

[Edratman]

In fact, if you play as Gem Valley on a map with about 125 provinces using MA Ulm and the 5 nations in the "Improved Computer Opponents" mod at impossible or whatever setting you feel comfortable with (more shameless self promotion), I absolutely 100% guarantee a game like you never experienced before.

Furthermore, if you find these claims misleading or misrepresentative in any manner, the FULL price of the mods will be cheerfully refunded. (Shipping and handling fees not included.):D:D

:party::party::party:

[AreaOfEffect]

Sounds interesting. But how will Ulm play? Ulm ME is simply a nonmagic war machine, a Nichtzauberpanzer :D

I resent that statement completely. MA Ulm can easily be a magical powerhouse. Especially with a blood stone factory. They can also unload huge amounts of magic items. They are anything BUT non-magical. Sacred power on the other hand is non-existent.

Edit: Getting back on the topic, I would love to summon a pretender but the limited magical abilities often prevent this. One exception would be the immortal thug gods like the Risen Oracle. Low magic power but amazing HP and MR for an immortal unit. My guess is that a national hero might easily trump this option though.

[Epaminondas]

I've taken a 180 on the Wish issue. It's way too unbalanced (esp. in SP, because the AI doesn't seem to know how to utilize it at all), and makes the SP game too easy. So I've disabled it altogether. I may even begin to use Kristoffer's mods that restricts your magic research if I deem too many upper-level spells are over-powered.

[thejeff]

You really can't expect end-game SP to be balanced. To much of the game is focused on being able to react to your enemies strategies, especially later in the game when you have so many options available.

Without actually producing a real learning AI, the game just can't counter what good player can throw at it. It could be improved, but it's never going to be able to respond to tactics the way a real player can. SC counters, army destroying spells, etc, etc are far too situational.

It's much better earlier in the game when the gold/production advantage impossible AIs get is more relevant. Especially with some of the tricks suggested here (NI mod, using map commands to design pretenders, etc)

So, yes, Wish is unbalanced against the AI. So are dozens of other high-level spells. That doesn't mean they're unbalanced in MP.
Besides I've never gotten to Wish in an SP game without being already so dominant it's not fun anymore. With the SCs and hordes of battle mages I'll have by that point it's just a matter of slogging through the remaining provinces.

But I still lose to the AI a good chunk of the time in the early game.

[Epaminondas]

You really can't expect end-game SP to be balanced. To much of the game is focused on being able to react to your enemies strategies, especially later in the game when you have so many options available.

Without actually producing a real learning AI, the game just can't counter what good player can throw at it. It could be improved, but it's never going to be able to respond to tactics the way a real player can. SC counters, army destroying spells, etc, etc are far too situational.

It's much better earlier in the game when the gold/production advantage impossible AIs get is more relevant. Especially with some of the tricks suggested here (NI mod, using map commands to design pretenders, etc)

So, yes, Wish is unbalanced against the AI. So are dozens of other high-level spells. That doesn't mean they're unbalanced in MP.
Besides I've never gotten to Wish in an SP game without being already so dominant it's not fun anymore. With the SCs and hordes of battle mages I'll have by that point it's just a matter of slogging through the remaining provinces.

But I still lose to the AI a good chunk of the time in the early game.

What setting do you play at usually?

Though I've never played MP, I am very skeptical that Wish is not over-powered even in MP. You may be right in the sense that most MP games are decided before Wish is researched; but once someone has it, sheer arithmetic demonstrates that it is too powerful (see my example of what "magic power" does and compare it to how many gems it would require to pull off the same at the higher levels). Another MP factor that I may not be sufficiently account for may be, however, that the AI rarely dispels my Arcane Nexus global, and hence I am getting 100-plus Astral gems per turn easy.

[AreaOfEffect]

What setting do you play at usually?

Though I've never played MP, I am very skeptical that Wish is not over-powered even in MP. You may be right in the sense that most MP games are decided before Wish is researched; but once someone has it, sheer arithmetic demonstrates that it is too powerful (see my example of what "magic power" does and compare it to how many gems it would require to pull off the same at the higher levels). Another MP factor that I may not be sufficiently account for may be, however, that the AI rarely dispels my Arcane Nexus global, and hence I am getting 100-plus Astral gems per turn easy.

You are correct, Wish is the most effective way in the entire Dominions universe to raise your magic skills. (Unless you already have a rainbow mage with all or almost all magic paths. Then a Ring of Wizardry or Robe of the Magi is better.) However, that in of itself is not a winning strategy. It is instead investing more gems into a single unit which can be destroyed. It only amounts to victory if those extra skills allow you to do something you couldn't before, which is in actuality the victoriously overpowered spell.

Wish, by itself, can't make a province yours. Wish can't assassinate a particular unit. Wish can't even grant you an army. (A huge pile of militia does not count as an army. It counts as a waste of your gold via upkeep cost.) Wish is a tool to be combined with other spells. It can't even grant you an actual super combatant until you cast Gift of Reason afterword. Even then you need to forge quality items in order to keep that initial investment of 120 gems safe. Just because you see it amazingly efficient at doing one thing, does not make it overpowered.

Edit: By the way, you really need to play a MP game.

[thejeff]

I usually use impossible AIs. These days I've been playing smaller maps so there's more action early on when the AIs are more effective.
If I'm rushed by huge AI armies from multiple nations early on, I'll probably lose. If I get time to grow to midgame, the AI stops being able to compete.

As far as MP goes, I've never really been a factor in the late-game, so I'm mostly judging from commentary here. Bear in mind you won't be the only one wishing in MP. Arcane Nexus is one of the game-ending spells. Don't cast it in MP unless you're actually intent on declaring war on the rest of the world. Clamming and eventually wishes for gems are the usual way of funding wishes.
Magic power is generally not considered a particularly useful wish, sure it would take far more gems to duplicate without wish, but it's not all that useful to have 1 caster with 10s in every path. Hardly needed for rituals and if you send him out on the field, even fully equipped he'll likely die in a battle or two. Sure arithmetic shows it's powerful, but is it useful?

Everyone will have an end-game strategy. Using clams to fund wishes, mostly for Seraph class SCs is one of them. Maybe even the most effective. Clams require a lot of investment upfront and can be hard to mass if you're forced to fight most of the game.
Blood nations have their own paths. Tartarians are still effective and cheaper.

[Epaminondas]

Edit: By the way, you really need to play a MP game.

I know! But I don't see how things can work out logistically. How can you coordinate a turn-based game with over 10 people (which is the critical mass required to have a good game)? Do a turn a week? :)

[thejeff]

Usually a turn a day (or more if people get to it quickly) to start, eventually slowing to every 2 days or more as turns take longer.

It's well under an hour a day for the first few years. Just sign up for a game and try it out.

[Tifone]

That's what I'm waiting for too ^^ But MP games good 4 n00bs come out with much less frequency than expected and I really don't have the experience to organize one myself :o

[JimMorrison]

That's what I'm waiting for too ^^ But MP games good 4 n00bs come out with much less frequency than expected and I really don't have the experience to organize one myself :o


Half the games I see posted, say they're for newer players, or rookies, or some such. ;)

In fact, one filled up just a couple of days ago.

It's actually quite easy to admin your own game on Llamaserver. Just go through the create game page, and set it up much like you would an SP game. Then post on the forum like the others you see, listing age, # of players, map, settings. As people sign up, list them in the top post. Eventually, you may even find a sucker, er, helpful person to pass off the admin to once the game gets rolling. But really, Llamaserver is mostly very simple and intuitive.

<3

[Tifone]

To the original topic:

The best SC to wish for is THE GIANT MOUSE OF MINSK!!

http://imgboot.com/images/Tifone/minsk.gif

Lifeless, Mindless, Never Heals, Fear +10,000, Animal Awe +10,000 :D

(Whoever remembers this, wins one million points :D)

[rdonj]

Goodbye Mr. Ratcat. Catrat?

[Trumanator]

Is that rat monster from Fieval, an American Tale?

[nordlys]

"go for the eyes Boo, go for the eyes"

[Stavis_L]

You can't post that without this:

"BUTT-KICKING...for GOODNESS!!!!"

:-)

[Aezeal]

Ok this makes me want to put a giant minature space hamster in my dom 3000 mod :D

[Trumanator]

How big is giant miniature?

[Aezeal]

well normal sized really, don't you know Minsk and Boo from baldurs gate?

Google for giant space hamster (there really is a DnD sheet for them for the spelljammer thingie, never played ti but I saw it once)and Boo is a miniaturized version :D

[JaghataiKhan]

A Stellar Dragon from 3rd Edition Dnd.

These dudes are actually entire constellations linked with sentience kindly watching the Universe. They love gathering info and chatting with wizards. Information forms in shapes of pearls in their bodies.

[Agema]

Do people often avoid seraphs to wish for, on the grounds against an astral nation, a few astral duels (even from S1) and one of them is going to stick?

[Stavis_L]

Do people often avoid seraphs to wish for, on the grounds against an astral nation, a few astral duels (even from S1) and one of them is going to stick?

Along these lines - does anyone know if a Chayot is "immune" to astral duels by virtue of the shapechange? i.e. do they just convert form, or are they down for the count at that point?

[Gregstrom]

AFAIK they just change form, like Hydra hit by Soul Slay.

[PsiSoldier]

Hrrrm will a Chayot hit by a Dimension Rod or a spell like Claws of Kokytos that banishis them to an icy real actually work? or will they just change shape.

[chrispedersen]

Do people often avoid seraphs to wish for, on the grounds against an astral nation, a few astral duels (even from S1) and one of them is going to stick?

Along these lines - does anyone know if a Chayot is "immune" to astral duels by virtue of the shapechange? i.e. do they just convert form, or are they down for the count at that point?

I fought one on several occassions in Glory.

They are hardy little bastards. I killed all but one of his forms on multiple occassions -but killing him was tough. Finally managed it by cutting off his escapes and making him route.

Definitely an awesome unit - and to my mind superiour to a seraph. However, he was using the chayot bug. IF that were banned, I'd call it more close to even.

[Sombre]

What's the chayot bug?

[Humakty]

Do they keep their equipment when they change shape ? The last patch tells me they should, but I wonder if anyone tested it.

[JimMorrison]

What's the chayot bug?

If given a Ring of Wizardry, they suddenly have access to magic from all 4 forms, rather than just Astral.


And yes Humakty, all shapes have all slots, so retain all gear.

[Gregstrom]

Now that's interesting. I wonder how empowerment affects a Chayot?

[chrispedersen]

Now that's interesting. I wonder how empowerment affects a Chayot?

I imagine that if you give a chayot a RoW, you will be able to empower him based on the buggiest higher values.

[MaxWilson]

The RoW bug is great for diversifying Ashdod's magic--you can do cross-path stuff like forge the Ark. I can't imagine that it would be a big deal on a SC though, because you don't have time to cast all the buffs it enables. My typical Chayot script is

Divine Blessing
Body Ethereal
Personal Luck
Resist Magic
[Astral Shield]

I can imagine dropping Astral Shield in favor of Invulnerability or something, but you lose a misc slot and pay an extra 36 gems for the RoW. To me this isn't worth it.

-Max

[chrispedersen]

The RoW bug is great for diversifying Ashdod's magic--you can do cross-path stuff like forge the Ark. I can't imagine that it would be a big deal on a SC though, because you don't have time to cast all the buffs it enables. My typical Chayot script is

Divine Blessing
Body Ethereal
Personal Luck
Resist Magic
[Astral Shield]

I can imagine dropping Astral Shield in favor of Invulnerability or something, but you lose a misc slot and pay an extra 36 gems for the RoW. To me this isn't worth it.

-Max

Max,
Do you recall if after the ROW the stats are boosted? I don't.
Ie., is prot boosted by E? MR by S?

Also, if you twiceborn a Chayot with a ROW what magic paths are retained?

[MaxWilson]

Max,
Do you recall if after the ROW the stats are boosted? I don't.
Ie., is prot boosted by E? MR by S?

Also, if you twiceborn a Chayot with a ROW what magic paths are retained?

S doesn't boost MR. I don't recall whether RoW boosts Prot from E (although a boost of 1 is pretty negligible anyway). Edi has reported that Chayot and Seraphim do not receive a boost to their natural FireShield effect from extra F, so it's possible that they're also weird about other misc effects like Prot from E.

I've never twiceborned Chayot (who empowers Chayot in Death anyway?), but I should mention that I happen to know that Phoenix Pyring Chayot stops them from shapechanging upon death (i.e. if you die w/ more than 100 fatigue, you just die instead of becoming the next Chay form).

-Max

[chrispedersen]

Belphagor

[sum1lost]

Gorgon, simply for the petrify.

[Taqwus]

I've never twiceborned Chayot (who empowers Chayot in Death anyway?), but I should mention that I happen to know that Phoenix Pyring Chayot stops them from shapechanging upon death (i.e. if you die w/ more than 100 fatigue, you just die instead of becoming the next Chay form).


This is probably a good limitation. Imagine the hydra unique, on Phoenix Pyre...

[chrispedersen]

Hmmmm

4 Communion master with phoenix pyre, well in advance of the 8-10 communion slaves. Cover the whole line of battle

Comm Ms - Com Mas, FireShield, Phoenix Pyre, hold, hold,

Com Sl - Body Ethereal, Personal Luck, Communion slave

[MaxWilson]

I'm not sure what the goal of the above communion is--is it a linebacker communion where you're going to send the slaves in on Attack Closest while the masters fire crossbows? In that case, why aren't the masters casting different buffs? (Summon Earthpower/Invulnerability/Personal Luck/Soul Vortex/Phoenix Pyre/Fire Shield/Resist Magic/Astral Shield spring to mind.) Each slave will get every buff cast by at least one master.

The sad thing is, in my experience, whenever Phoenix Pyre is relevant in this setup (i.e. you're facing something that can actually kill ultra-buffed communion slaves) it tends to become irrelevant, in that the slaves pick up lots of nasty afflictions from their deaths without the weak fire attack doing real damage to the nasties that are killing them. I dunno, maybe if I tried this on slaves with worthwhile weapons instead of random Ktonian Necromancers with quarterstaffs it would work better. Essentially you'd be relying on Soul Vortex + magic weapons to do the actual killing, with Phoenix Pyre as simply insurance vs. failing an MR check vs. Disintegrate/Soul Slay.

-Max

[Endoperez]

The point is that the slaves can't attack if the master(s) keeps casting spells after the buffs. A single Paralyze will stop one enemy and ALL of your communion-thugs!

[HoneyBadger]

This thread always gives me the desire to have a bunch of exclusively wishable SC's in the game. If I had my way, this feature of the Wish spell would be replaced by a separate high level spell that could be used to wish for a broad selection of SCable chassis that you couldn't otherwise get with any other spell, Nation, summon, or magic site.

Making every unit in the game Wishable just seems to cause problems, anyway. That's why we have Grigori in the game, afterall. Why allow one Nation to wish for the hero or the god of another Nation? It seems forced, and the same chassis seem to be wished for, over and over. Besides, it kind of erodes the specialness of Pretenders if you can just wish for one, collecting them like trading cards.

[MaxWilson]

The point is that the slaves can't attack if the master(s) keeps casting spells after the buffs. A single Paralyze will stop one enemy and ALL of your communion-thugs!

So you're saying it *is* a linebacker communion? Then why are the masters all casting the same buffs? Also, why are the slaves set *behind* the masters? Shouldn't they be placed forward so they're in position to attack?

The solution for the problem you cite is to either

1.) make the masters attack too (they're not as uberbuffed, but it's simpler so I usually do this),

2.) give the master a crossbow and set him to Fire, or

3.) have a master cast Blink. Soul Vortex + Fire Shield can kill things even if the slaves are sitting there passively because a master cast a spell. I've never tried #3 but it's at least potentially a real use for Blink. ;)

-Max

[Endoperez]

So you're saying it *is* a linebacker communion? Then why are the masters all casting the same buffs? Also, why are the slaves set *behind* the masters? Shouldn't they be placed forward so they're in position to attack?

It seems this isn't the thread I thought I was replying in. :confused: I thought I was answering to a question about using crossbows in a communion, instead of a question about the purpose of a spesific communion.

I think I'll go sleep now, before I do something weird again.

[AreaOfEffect]

Hmmmm

4 Communion master with phoenix pyre, well in advance of the 8-10 communion slaves. Cover the whole line of battle

Comm Ms - Com Mas, FireShield, Phoenix Pyre, hold, hold,

Com Sl - Body Ethereal, Personal Luck, Communion slave

I think the point was to have exploding communion masters who shared their fatigue with the slaves in order to explode again and again. Though I honestly don't think it works that way.

[MaxWilson]

It's been reported that Phoenix Pyre fatigue (from dying) is shared via a communion, although I don't know if it's pathlevel-adjusted like spells are. So I guess the point of having slaves cast Body Ethereal/Personal Luck is just to harden them against random arrows and such, while the masters wade into personal combat?

It could work. The problem I see is that 1.) Phoenix Pyre is a weak attack (10 AP although w/ AoE 50), 2.) since your damage strategy relies on dying a lot, you'll pick up lots of nasty afflictions like Mute and have to get new masters for the next battle. I see this having use mostly in desperate situations like "must retake capital from surprise attack without any chaff troops or skelly spammers." In most other situations it would be better to just rain Falling Fires on them, w/ Phoenix Pyre as an insurance measure and not your primary damage tactic.

-Max

[Gregstrom]

In response to 2: You only need base F1S1 on the communion masters, which puts them firmly in the disposable category.

[Trumanator]

How many F1S1 mages are there? I personally see this more as the ultimate chaff clearing tool. It seems like it has the potential to clear out Ermorian hordes very quickly. The problem is that there are better spells for that.

[JimMorrison]

I'm having trouble classifying 10AN+AoE50 as a "weak" attack. It may not be the strategy to take down packs of giants or to eliminate thugs, but against -most- chaff, it is extremely brutal.

If you have access to E+S mages, you only need an F1 as the master, as if you have enough slaves to distribute your fatigue, you are only worried about afflictions, not actual death. Thus, a Crystal Matrix allows you to use very cheap mages (if you have access), and you can theoretically clear quite a lot of chaff.

Note, this is probably mostly only of use for a nation who has access to FR troops, that can handle the bombs going off near your own lines. ;)

[mivayan]

I'm having trouble classifying 10AN+AoE50 as a "weak" attack. It may not be the strategy to take down packs of giants or to eliminate thugs, but against -most- chaff, it is extremely brutal.
It's AP, so the first explosion will probably just get the chaff down to 4 hp.

Once, I tried some abuse with Abysia and phoenix power in single player, and got very surprised when my fire immune troops got hurt. Turns out it's not fire damage at all. Just looks and tastes and smells like it. Old post with screenie of abysians and phoenix pyre. (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=31197)

[JimMorrison]

Well hot diggity. You see, apparently it's "explosive" damage, which is kinetic. :D

[vfb]

Thanks mivayan!

I was about to try myself some exploding Abysians! :shock:

[Ornedan]

Somewhat back to the original topic of the thread: What good SC chassis can be wished underwater? I'm going for a Wish end-game with a water nation, but noticed my pretender chassis, which I planned on be the one casting Wish, can't ever get out of the water (Scared Statue. Whoops).

[MaxWilson]

Vastness is an entertaining SC, if you have 50 earth gems to burn on empowerment. And it's amphibious so you can wish for it underwater.

-Max

[vfb]

Just teleport your sacred statue to a land province you own (preferably with a lab in it already). You can't buy a sacred status with less than 3S, and it's already amphibious.

[chrispedersen]

It's been reported that Phoenix Pyre fatigue (from dying) is shared via a communion, although I don't know if it's pathlevel-adjusted like spells are. So I guess the point of having slaves cast Body Ethereal/Personal Luck is just to harden them against random arrows and such, while the masters wade into personal combat?

It could work. The problem I see is that 1.) Phoenix Pyre is a weak attack (10 AP although w/ AoE 50), 2.) since your damage strategy relies on dying a lot, you'll pick up lots of nasty afflictions like Mute and have to get new masters for the next battle. I see this having use mostly in desperate situations like "must retake capital from surprise attack without any chaff troops or skelly spammers." In most other situations it would be better to just rain Falling Fires on them, w/ Phoenix Pyre as an insurance measure and not your primary damage tactic.

-Max

The point of casting luck and body ethereal is so that you don't kill your slaves with random blink + explosions.

Plus to prevent your enemies from killing with stray arrows. AoE 50 is pretty big.

More to the point, this strategy requires really only a few F1S1 mages, and more straight S1 sages, for example.

There are also some other .. interesting possibilities - but they up the costs.

A. Script them to attack whatever class you want... Large enemy monsters.
B. Equip them with bows of war, script them to fire.
C. Include a Blood Mage with the Relief spell.
D. IF you have 2-3 of these mages, you can cause the enemy not to be able to conquer a territory, due to time out.

[rdonj]

Can't a sacred statue just teleport out of the water? Even aquatic beings can teleport out of the water if given an amulet of the fish.

[Trumanator]

You might be mixing it up with the Sphinx, which really can't move. It can't even teleport.

[AreaOfEffect]

That's why I always get death magic on my Sphinx. Stygian Paths is a wonderful spell.

Edit: You could wish for more of the water royalty if all of them have been summoned already. Thier regeneration is amazing.

[MaxWilson]

More to the point, this strategy requires really only a few F1S1 mages, and more straight S1 sages, for example. snip

D. IF you have 2-3 of these mages, you can cause the enemy not to be able to conquer a territory, due to time out.

I don't think that would actually work in practice. Mages with nothing but Fire Shield and Phoenix Pyre are pretty fragile, and frequently get killed twice or more in a turn. Your only source of reinvig is the 5/turn from being > 100, so even with all the slaves to share fatigue I think you won't survive long enough to reach timeout.

-Max

[Kristoffer O]

> That's why I always get death magic on my Sphinx. Stygian Paths is a wonderful spell.

I had a vision of a most strange-looking sneaking stone sphinx passing through the stygian realms with a horde of scared little human followers, much to the surprise of Hades, Nergal and their likes.

[Executor]

Here's something I'd like to try, If you give some 4 armed commander, a Davana for example, 4 Eye Shields and fly him in a heavy Tartarian province could he blind them all? That is does Eye Shield have MR check?

[Tifone]

Don't remember bout the Eye Shield (probably it does though), but mind that usually if one has tartarians, he will almost surely have a way to get rid of afflictions, as they come when summoned with very nasty afflictions already...

[Executor]

Well, yes but you're not just gonna leave them hanging around blind you're gonna kill them.
Than again it's far easier to send someone with stone bird, gloves of gladiator and boots of quickness to knock down anyones defense in just one turn and then smite him down with something very powerful, I don't know if someone already mentioned this I haven't read the thread.

But it be interesting sending someone to blind the enemies sacred army for example, I'd had the pleasure to experience it myself, many blessed F9W9 jaguar warriors blinded and than massacred by damn meneads thanked to Jazzepi.

[Bwaha]

About the eye shield, yes it is a magic resisted effect. I was trying to blind a cyclops SC, The battle lasted 50 rounds and he still can see. :re:

[vfb]

That could just mean that there was never a successful melee shield parry in that battle. What was the cyclops' attack, and what was your unit's defense?

He has to actually hit the shield to get blinded.

[Nikelaos]

Here's something I'd like to try, If you give some 4 armed commander, a Davana for example, 4 Eye Shields and fly him in a heavy Tartarian province could he blind them all? That is does Eye Shield have MR check?

the blindness would be negated via magic resistance IIRC, but there are other ways to ruin someones tartarian filled day.

i remember once i was playing a small mp with some close friends, 1 had a particularly awesome clam factory aswell as a rainbow pretender who earned him quite a massive gem income, he popped up nexus and seemed to have invested a stupidly large amount of pearls into it because noone could dispel it.

later came the stupid amounts of geared up tartarians and though we all ganged up on him we just couldn't break through, armies were shattered, communions overpowered, raiding squads resulted in teleporting empowered tartarian dumped down on them, teleporting seraph resulting in 5 teleporting tartarians - it was ridiculous.

however the rather smart chap playing C'tis seemed to have found the remedy, he summoned a devourer of souls and teleported a comunion around with it to cast buffs and hold tartarians down with spells like tangle vines, he had also taken a rather large horde of chaff along to take the battering and reduce the tartarians defence skill via multiple attacks, and 1 by 1 (well 3 by 3, he aimed for large numbers of tartarians) tartarians fell to his devourer of souls.

it actually looked like nothing could go wrong at this point, untill the devourer of souls got enslaved by uber astral communion:doh:

[Soyweiser]

it actually looked like nothing could go wrong at this point, untill the devourer of souls got enslaved by uber astral communion:doh:

Impressive story :) Sound like a very exciting end-game.

[MaxWilson]

it actually looked like nothing could go wrong at this point, untill the devourer of souls got enslaved by uber astral communion:doh:

Heh. I believe Devourer of Souls is unique, so the guy with the clam factory could also have wished for it to deprive C'tis of its services. Uber communion is good too.

There's not much you can't do with a huge supply of pearls. :)

-Max