LlamaServer fixed

[GrudgeBringer]

I have been trying to join a game and I can't seem to get the server to take my pretender.

This is not my first game and I have tried it 4 different ways and sent it 7 different times.

I also (just to check) E-mailed a revised turn into the server (even tho it has a different address) and it won't take that either.

I have e-mailed myself and 3 friends and they have all received my e-mails.

I have just D/L the 3.20 patch but I was having this problem BEFORE I D/l it.

ANYONE having the same problem or any ideas?

If I don't get this fived I will have to drop out of 5 games....HELPPPP:eek:

[GrudgeBringer]

And BTW its obvious I have no problem connecting to this forum or any of the others...

[Psycho]

Try a different mail account

[llamabeast]

GrudgeBringer, did you read my response to your PM? Try e-mailing it to me (my e-mail address is at the bottom of all LlamaServer e-mails), and PM me when you do so I can see whether I get it.

Also, yep, try just opening a gmail account and use that. That should work.

[archaeolept]

llamaserver seems to be having problems connecting to the mailserver, so hosting times have been delayed. However, what is strange is that the message to this effect no longer shows on the game pages, but clearly it is still having issues as turns are not acknowledged, and crazy emails about not having a pretender file attached are being sent ;)

hopefully this gets resolved easily - llama is away on holiday again. Mostly I'm posting this hoping for some sort of official comment on the situation :)

[ano]

Maybe, if you attach pretender file everything will be fine? Did you try it?;)
/just joking

[Bwaha]

Well I just sent a turn to Llamma and I get no response. No change in the status of the game.:confused: I just checked the other two games on Llamaserver and also no change in status.:eek:

[Executor]

I'm not getting response either.

[Crust]

I'm also having this problem.

[Innocence]

Same here :shock:

Oh well :o While it's unfortunate let's not forget that Llamaserver is a free service. If Llamabeast is on vacation or simply unable to solve the problem in his precious freetime, that's something we got to accept :)

[archaeolept]

as i said above, there was a message in the games on his site about not being able to contact his email server, and that hostings will be delayed until this is resolved. I was just hoping for an explicit update from Llama :)

[Zeldor]

Hosting times are not moving. And I can't wait for the whole night. I hope it really gets fixed soon or postpones all hostings by 12-24h.

[archaeolept]

well, hopefully the games don't host until the email issue resolves, and then your sent turns will be processed correctly

heh, I emailed him, and got this error:

Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 554 554 5.7.1 <llamabeast@llamaserver.net>: Recipient address rejected: the recipient domain has exceeded our free daily usage limits - try again later

[Innocence]

the recipient domain has exceeded our free daily usage limits - try again laterUh oh - we're the cause of the problem :doh:

[lch]

Got this from the net:

Gmail has the following limitations on its users :
- You can only send 500 mails in a day. (Thats 500 times hitting the send button)
- There could be maximum 100 unique recipients for a single mail.
- Maximum limit of sent mails is 2000 in a day (for example, sending one message to a group of 100 people twenty times)

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=22839

That does sound like "for each individual account", though. llama could circumvent this by having Google Apps host his mail services and creating a new mail account for each game he's hosting. The error message "554 554 5.7.1 : Recipient address rejected: the recipient domain has exceeded our free daily usage limits" seems to indicate that this is counted for the whole domain, though - that would be bad.

[Zeldor]

Huh, llamaserver using gmail account? That would be new thing, they all come from llamaserver.net and I would be surprised if it was hooked up to gmail system. And that problem would occur on 1st day, he is sending quite often more emails than 500 a day.

[Dedas]

Something seems wrong with the server. The game Divine_Might should have hosted yesterday but hasn't. Also I'm trying to send in my turn to it but get no response.

[Jazzepi]

He's on vacation, but thanks for playing :D

Every time he leaves things go FUBAR :(

Jazzepi

[Innocence]

I would be surprised if it was hooked up to gmail system
llamaserver.net MX (mail) record points to hostgator.com.

According to HostGators forums they're having problems caused by hurricane Ike - perhaps that's the reason their mailhosting is behaving badly.

http://forums.hostgator.com/hurricane-ike-procedures-t38304p3.html

[lch]

Huh, llamaserver using gmail account? That would be new thing, they all come from llamaserver.net and I would be surprised if it was hooked up to gmail system.
Whoops, the mention of Google made me think he is using Gmail. One can get free email services for domains and subdomains from Google through Google Apps.

This here is about Hostgator:

Hostgator hosting permit up to a 200 email sending per hour per domain. If you send over this amount in any hour, most of the e-mails will bounce back with a undeliverable error. That makes 4800 emails daily limit.

[Innocence]

That makes 4800 emails daily limit.
After Llamaserver implemented the functionality where people could create new games, the number of games have multiplied. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason we've hit the limit :(

[Zeldor]

It's new day already, so it would send some more now. And llamaserver not refreshing + weird actions when trying to to anything with for example postponing suggests more serious problem.

[Gandalf Parker]

That makes 4800 emails daily limit.
After Llamaserver implemented the functionality where people could create new games, the number of games have multiplied. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason we've hit the limit :(

We were concerned about that. I created a MakeGame link on my server but never put it into use.
http://www.dom3minions.com/lab/MakeGame.htm
On a direct-connect server like mine the load would by much greater. We were hoping that a PbEM server could handle it better. But the idea that having it TOO easy to make a game would lead to a glut of same games that no one joins was a worry. Are there even threads here pitching most of the games made?

Gandalf Parker

[Jazzepi]

I've never seen a problem with supply out stripping demand. There always seems to be more people willing to play, then there are games, even with Llamabeast putting up the new "start a server" command page.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

Maybe his roommate plugged in the iron again?

[Gandalf Parker]

I've never seen a problem with supply out stripping demand. There always seems to be more people willing to play, then there are games, even with Llamabeast putting up the new "start a server" command page.

Jazzepi

Hmmm Ive seen many game threads that failed to get players. Also in the IRC channel its not all that uncommon.

I know that on my own server Ive questioned whether or not I should offer so many games. They rarely fill up and many of them end up with one or two players waiting for weeks for other people to join. Too many games only increases that situation. Rules of supply and demand.

Gandalf Parker

[Jazzepi]

I've never seen a problem with supply out stripping demand. There always seems to be more people willing to play, then there are games, even with Llamabeast putting up the new "start a server" command page.

Jazzepi

Hmmm Ive seen many game threads that failed to get players. Also in the IRC channel its not all that uncommon.

I know that on my own server Ive questioned whether or not I should offer so many games. They rarely fill up and many of them end up with one or two players waiting for weeks for other people to join. Too many games only increases that situation. Rules of supply and demand.

Gandalf Parker

I've only noticed that for the games that have really weird settings, or for people who start them and don't understand how to advertise their games properly. I always have a status meter in the title that shows how many spots are open and how many spots are left.

Jazzepi

[K]

I've never seen a problem with supply out stripping demand. There always seems to be more people willing to play, then there are games, even with Llamabeast putting up the new "start a server" command page.

Jazzepi

Hmmm Ive seen many game threads that failed to get players. Also in the IRC channel its not all that uncommon.

I know that on my own server Ive questioned whether or not I should offer so many games. They rarely fill up and many of them end up with one or two players waiting for weeks for other people to join. Too many games only increases that situation. Rules of supply and demand.

Gandalf Parker

I've only noticed that for the games that have really weird settings, or for people who start them and don't understand how to advertise their games properly. I always have a status meter in the title that shows how many spots are open and how many spots are left.

Jazzepi

The games I've started seem to fill up really quickly(2-3 days). I only start games with "no mods" and "if the game allows it, then it's OK" rules.

I've been looking to join a game for the past few weeks and have turned down every one because of mods or weird house rules. I'll probably just start another.

[Kadelake]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6859&d=1221632428

[lch]

LOL :lol

[Gandalf Parker]

Great picture. :)

[Innocence]

LOL indeed - it's his spitting image

[Kadelake]

It would make a good avatar :)

[llamabeast]

Hello all. I just got back from holiday. For now I think I'm just going to go to bed, but tomorrow I will try to catch up with any issues that happened while I was away. I can see straight away that the mail server was down basically all day on the 15th. Were there any other issues, and is there anything still playing up?

I'll read the thread more thoroughly tomorrow anyway, but most importantly it'd be great if people could tell me if there are any current issues.

[llamabeast]

Kadelake, your picture is fantastic. :) :)

[llamabeast]

Looks like all the issues were due to the hurricane. You lot are smart, figuring that out, nice one. I'm hoping everything is lovely and smooth again now?

There are no issues with the LlamaServer getting overfull by the way. So far as I know we're nowhere near any limits. And indeed, almost all games still seem to fill up very quickly. I was worried that might be an issue, but it doesn't seem to have become one.

[Gandalf Parker]

Excellent. Im certainly glad to hear that.

My new upgraded server (thanks to this community) is also handling all of its games really well. Im running 5 times as many as I did before and not seeing any load problems at all.

Gandalf Parker

[ano]

llamabeast
Games don't host and emails are not accepted (not sure if llamaserver sends them). This is what I see.
Also, if you figure out and fix the issue, please pause all games so that they don't host occasionally. Some games should have been hosted on Monday or even earlier and people could not submit their turns since then.
Thanks!

[llamabeast]

Aaaaahhhhhh.

Aaaggghhh.

The above messages were far too hasty, and were based just on checking the error e-mails I'd received, and not even looking at the website (which hasn't been updated since Monday). On trying to log into the server... no luck. On trying to reboot it, it won't boot up.

So, the server's died. Hardware failure. It happened about 20 hours after the hurricane knocked out hostgator's mail services - whether that's coincidence or the problems placed some kind of load on my server (due to imperfect coding on my part) which overheated the thing isn't clear. In any case, I can't turn it on now.

The good news is that I've no reason to think that the hard disk has died - it doesn't get as far as using that. Even if it has died, which I think is unlikely, all the important files (including all game ftherlnd files) are backed up elsewhere.

I will try to set up a temporary solution in the next day or so, using my work computer. Then I'll set about working out what hardware I need to replace.

Many apologies, all, for the inconvenience.

[llamabeast]

Something funny happened to the LlamaServer on Monday, while I was on holiday. I don't know what. In any case, I can't turn it on now. The fans start going, but it never gets as far as showing anything on screen.

The good news is that I've no reason to think that the hard disk has died - it doesn't get as far as using that. Even if it has died, which I think is unlikely, all the important files (including all game ftherlnd files and all the code) are backed up elsewhere. Thank goodness.

I will try to set up a temporary solution in the next day or so, using my work computer. Then I'll set about working out what hardware I need to replace.

So, overall, I think all the games should be able to continue fine, and probably the majority of the downtime has already happened. But maybe there will be more, especially if for example the IT guy at my department stamps down on my using my work computer as a temporary solution.

Many apologies, all, for the inconvenience.

[Revolution]

Nice to have you back Llamabeast

[Fakeymcfake]

No need for apologies, after all you provide a free service and it would be rude to be overly demanding of someone so generous.

On another note, Revolution's avatar will haunt my dreams.

[ano]

No problem. Even the greatest servers sometimes fall)
Thanks for all you do for us.

[JimMorrison]

Hot steamy Llama <3

[Bwaha]

:pc: Great to have you back. I'm sure everyone would be willing to chip in a little to assist your system. If you want or need a little help create a site for donations. I will chip in...:party::party::you: :D

[DrPraetorious]

Let me be the first, not to thank you, but to condemn the rest of the forum for not thanking you with sufficient vigor.

The lot of you should be ashamed. :rant:

Llamabeast, this interpretive dance explains how your awesomeness relates to the divine unity of all consciousness. Nothing else is sufficient.

:bug: :eek: :sick: :rolleyes: :doh: :confused: :eek: :tough: :bow: :cheers: :wave: :censor: :ghug: :first: :pointup: :angel

[Dedas]

Love the llama!

[Xietor]

I will not only thank Llamabeast, but I am going to get to the post office and do my part to financially support Llamaserver. Llamabeast is not the Prince of England, he is a grad student.

So he likely can use help funding this effort from those of us that actually have jobs, and can afford to chip in.

Hope you had a good vacation!

[sansanjuan]

No worries mate. I think it is actually good now and then to be reminded of the thin veneer of technology that seperates us all from our base instincts (and having only checkers to play by candlelight). ...Not that I mind a good game of checker now and then. ;)

Let us know if you need a couple bucks for h/w, s/w or connectivity. Good to have you back.
-SSJ

[llamabeast]

Okay, an update. I'll write more later, but suffice to say the box is all repaired (inexplicably in fact, no new hardware needed), and I'm just trying to get the backlog of e-mails processed. Unfortunately that's no small task, but everything should be back to normal in a few hours.

Many thanks for all the kind comments. :)

[Jazzepi]

When the servers go back online, make sure you give all the games extensions if they're close to hosting. Many people were unable to submit turns.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Right, back online. In the end I had to throw away the backlog of e-mails. It was 35000 strong due to a morass of error e-mails and despite my best efforts for some reason I couldn't get rid of the things.

All games are set to host at (now + hosting interval), i.e. in 24 hours for a 24-hour-hosting game. You should all hopefully have got an e-mail explaining things anyway.

Thanks again all for your patience and kindness!

[llamabeast]

This post is no more than technical ramblings about what happened to the LlamaServer this week.

Okay, so on Monday the mail server, which is run by hostgator.com, apparently went down due to Ike. On coming back online the mailbox had 35000 error messages in it.

The LlamaServer code was written, I guess, slightly foolishly, in that every minute another instance of it would start up, and try to download the mail (I've now fixed this so it couldn't happen again). Normally that wouldn't be a problem, but being as the massive mailbox took essentially forever to download, I guess none of these processes could finish. So I imagine perhaps CPU load climbed to 100%, and then the computer overheated and died.

But the weird thing is how I fixed it. The computer wouldn't boot at all - not a single thing appeared on the screen. So I systematically disconnected all the components and tested if it would boot after each one (I'd given up hope to be honest, and already started researching costs for a new machine on the internet, but I thought I might as well check). I got down to just having the RAM left. There are two 512MB sticks.

I took the front one out. It still wouldn't boot. I took the back one out too. Wouldn't boot (unsurprisingly). I put the one from the back in the front slot. It booted! Miracle! (I can't tell you how happy I was!) Then I put the other one (which at this point I had concluded must be faulty) in the back slot. Still worked! Then I put everything else back in, and it remains fine. So the only net change is that I swapped the RAM sticks over.

Anyone have any thoughts on this oddness? Perhaps it will just remain a mystery. I'd assume a loose connection, but I wouldn't have thought you could get a loose connection just from overheating, and also RAM sticks are very much not loose.

[llamabeast]

Anyone playing on the LlamaServer should have received the contents of this post as an e-mail. But I thought I would post it here as well, just to make sure people see it.

---
Hello all,

So, on Monday, something funny happened to the LlamaServer. Let's say, for the sake of melodrama, that it exploded (it didn't explode). In any case it stopped working. I suspect the fault was connected with Hurricane Ike, which apparently took out the mail server for a bit. Maybe the LlamaServer's frantic efforts to contact the mail server made it overheat (I think I will post more about this on the forum, for any who are interested).

Anyway, I managed to mysteriously fix it by taking it apart and putting it back together again, exactly as I found it. So everything is now running smoothly again.

Please note that all e-mails sent to the server during the downtime have been lost. So you should send your turns in again if you didn't get a receipt e-mail. However, I've reset the timers for all the games, so you have a bit of time (e.g. for a game on 24-hour quickhost, it'll host about 24 hours from now). Game admins take note: this will have overridden any other delays you may have put in place.

Thanks for your patience over the last few days. Everyone's been very patient and very helpful, which I really appreciate.

Now, back to the games!

llamabeast.
---

[WraithLord]

Awesome!

A chorus of :clap: for llama :)

Many thanks for your efforts. I wish there was some secure online service by which one could express more than just words of thanks but also contribute $$$ to the cause.

BTW, MP game Victoria hosted shortly, I wonder if all players did manage to get their turns on time.

[llamabeast]

Victoria hosted due to all turns coming in. You can see if anyone staled by going Admin options->Show staling data. I realise this is a bit unintuitive, I'm thinking of rearranging the admin options for which you don't need an admin password onto a different and more obvious page.

In response to a number of startlingly generous requests, I think I'm going to look into adding a Donate button to the page. I feel a little uncertain though... there is certainly no need for any donations, although I guess I certainly wouldn't object to people offering a bit towards the initial cost of the server, or even just buying me a beer, so long as they emphatically don't feel obliged.

[Herode]

OK, the hotfix works perfectly.
Thanks for it, llama :banana:

[JimMorrison]

It's remotely possible that the extreme heat caused a small amount of stretching of the material - very slight. However, because RAM slots are so snug, when it cooled down, the connectors were still just slightly off, and shorting out, preventing boot. When you released them from their captivity, they were finally able to flex back to their original shape.

[DrPraetorious]

In response to a number of startlingly generous requests, I think I'm going to look into adding a Donate button to the page. I feel a little uncertain though... there is certainly no need for any donations, although I guess I certainly wouldn't object to people offering a bit towards the initial cost of the server, or even just buying me a beer, so long as they emphatically don't feel obliged.

Obliged? No, it'd be a privelege - of course, this means we have to converge in Limeyland for the official dominions 3 drinking contest. As per the relevant international treaties, round 1 is an alternation between shots of Soju, Irish Car Bombs, shots of Jaeger, shots of Tequila, and local entry #1 (which would be something with gin in it, I suppose.)

Be sure that your life can continue for 7 days without you - and keep in mind that the jet lag from a weeklong bender ending when you wake up in Johanesburg wearing portions of a women's IDF uniform (her phone # is written on the small of your back in permanent marker) to cover your new Triad tattoos can be fierce.

[Psycho]

Thanks llama! You should definitely add a donate button. Even if you don't have any costs running the server, you certainly put a lot of work into it and continue to do so. It would be a good way for people to show their appreciation.

I see that most games resumed normally, but I think there may some problem with FallenKingdoms. Before the incident turn 12 was due and four people have already sent their turns in. Now it is still turn 12 but no turns are in. This would be no problem if it weren't for the fact that the admin options show that everybody staled turn 11 (which hosted normally before the hurricane). I tried resending my turn to see whether turn 11 is valid, but I received no mail. Could you look into this please. (Turn resend is not broken, it worked for another game).

[Zeldor]

llamabeast:

You should list all beers you can buy in your shop so we can choose what beer to buy for you :)

[Rathar]

Self healing machinery is the only possible solution. Smile, Nod and slowly back away..

[Omnirizon]

your computer is like Christine the car, and can repair itself. It would go on murderous rampages, except it has no wheels.

[Apsophos]

Did you try percussive maintenance before disassembling your box?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussive_maintenance

[Gandalf Parker]

In the military we called them Lockheed Fixes. Sometimes just banging it, or taking it apart and putting it back together, would fix the problem. But I agree it was most likely the connections.

However IF flipping the RAM was the fix then the front stick might have problems. I would run a mem check.

Gandalf Parker

[Jazzepi]

Victoria hosted due to all turns coming in. You can see if anyone staled by going Admin options->Show staling data. I realise this is a bit unintuitive, I'm thinking of rearranging the admin options for which you don't need an admin password onto a different and more obvious page.

In response to a number of startlingly generous requests, I think I'm going to look into adding a Donate button to the page. I feel a little uncertain though... there is certainly no need for any donations, although I guess I certainly wouldn't object to people offering a bit towards the initial cost of the server, or even just buying me a beer, so long as they emphatically don't feel obliged.

Please do! I'd donate.

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

My guess is... you were lucky. Resetting everything, including the RAM, set the computer back to operational. I would make a bet that this machine is set to implode again at some point though. It just sounds too fishy.

[Meglobob]

Nano technology, self repairing machines, its here, now!

[lch]

"llamaserver and e-mail problems",
"LlamaServer 'sploded (though things will be okay)",
"LlamaServer fixed",
"On the mysteries of the LlamaServer 'splosion",
and now even a "Llama server turn time" thread on first page is a little much for my taste. I'm merging all those threads sans the last one.

[chrispedersen]

I have sent 3 emails to llamaserver over 3 hours using 2 different email sources.

I get no response. As it is getting close to deadline, I am going to delay the game, World in Crisis. Llama, if the turn doesn't show in a timely fashion, could you look into it?

If it does, you can force host, if so inclined.

Thanks

[Zeldor]

I think it's for all games. Llamaserver did not update for an hour.

[Bwaha]

I just changed the message to players successfully, so Llama server is running. Someone want to force a hosting? Kickabout is on hold due to calem going AI.

[llamabeast]

What I'd like to add to this discussion is that I hate power cuts, especially when you get 4 in one day. That's not meant to happen in England.

[chrispedersen]

Thanks llama....

The weird thing was that I could ping / traceroute to your server. I could go to the admin pages. I just could *not* get the turn submitted.

We all know email is best effort....

But, perhaps I could make one small suggestion to the llamaserver.

Have a Env Variable - Hostable?.
Have a keep alive email send - say every 5 min or so.
If the llamaserver doesn't receive its own keepalive email it disables hosting (postpones all games) until 30 minutes after email reception returns.

This would prevent games from hosting in at least some instances where email couldn't be received.

Alternately, you could do keep alive pinging. Choose 2-3 well known ip addy's such as 4.2.2.2. Test for the return. If you can't receive ICMP returns - delay hosting.

My .02

Chris

[Bwaha]

I've one and only one complaint about Llama server, I tried to donate and the damn thing wants pounds, What the hell, I deal with US dollars. I don't want to do the conversion to whatever you guys use. I bought a gift card to do it and I'm miffed that theres no user friendly conversion to your money. :D

[llamabeast]

Thanks Bwaha! Apparently each pound is 1.73 dollars.

Chris - the reason you could still ping it is that the web server is a completely different machine to the LlamaServer itself. There's some explanation in the FAQ I think, although it might be outdated.

Anyway, a system similar to what you describe is already in place. The server won't host for as long as it's unable to check its email.

If contact with the mail server goes down, the website is updated intelligently to explain what's happening and hosting times are postponed. Unfortunately if the LlamaServer itself goes down most of the intelligence is lost, so the website just sits there dumbly pretending things are fine (which is what happened yesterday). Happily, power cuts here are pretty rare.

[chrispedersen]

Pretty Slick llama