PGM's and ARM's

[Listy]

So I was playing a game and I noticed a disturbing trend as nearly every one of my considerable Air defences (I went from 12 Gepards and a battery of patriots to 1 Gepard) was vaporised by a bunch of Russian jets. I soon worked out what was happening.

As Wild weasel Air craft seek out and attack radar, their ARM weapons automatically target Radars. These sometimes shut down to doge the missile, which is fair enough.

However if the ARM equipped plane has a PGM as well that auto targets the same target. Even if the planes bombard hex is some distance away. So essentially AA Radars will attract PGM weapons as well, which are far better at destroying the target.

This seemed somewhat skewed.

It also allowed the enemy to para drop a battalion of Para's on one of my Rifle companies supported by tanks and bunkers, and Rout the lot of them in under a turn, for very few casualties. :doh:

[Marcello]

However if the ARM equipped plane has a PGM as well that auto targets the same target. Even if the planes bombard hex is some distance away. So essentially AA Radars will attract PGM weapons as well, which are far better at destroying the target.
This seemed somewhat skewed.


Well, PGMs other ARM are used against SAM units in real life too...

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

However if the ARM equipped plane has a PGM as well that auto targets the same target. Even if the planes bombard hex is some distance away. So essentially AA Radars will attract PGM weapons as well, which are far better at destroying the target.
This seemed somewhat skewed.


Well, PGMs other ARM are used against SAM units in real life too...
Just a noob question, What's a PGM?

[JohnHale]

Precision Guided Missile - I think?

[Listy]

Precision Guided Missile - I think?

Yup.

[thatguy96]

Precision Guided Missile - I think?
Basically, but Munition is generally what the M is spelled out as because PGMs cover guided missiles and bombs.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Precision Guided Missile - I think?
Basically, but Munition is generally what the M is spelled out as because PGMs cover guided missiles and bombs.
Yeah, i bought a strike equiped with those, they're deadly, but the targetted tank was 50m away, i hit a SAM battery :D

[PanzerBob]

Good day,

12 Gepards!!! Wow Listy did you have them formed up on parade? ;)Must be some size force that they were supporting. Fast Air tends to give AA assets number one priority, especially if it knows where those assets are. I would also let loose as well if that was the case in any battle I was fighting.

Bob out:D

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Good day,

12 Gepards!!! Wow Listy did you have them formed up on parade? ;)Must be some size force that they were supporting. Fast Air tends to give AA assets number one priority, especially if it knows where those assets are. I would also let loose as well if that was the case in any battle I was fighting.

Bob out:D
MHWAHWAHWAHWAH!!!
that's why i use mixed aa SAM/AAA/SAM/AAA, i just don't like to see that my opponent has some of those, also, did someone noticed that the AI pick very few AA/SAM and aircraft/helico? Even when they're given lots of points?

[Koh]

Maybe the AI wants to buy realistic in stead of having a company supported by an air army and a SAM regiment.

[Listy]

Maybe the AI wants to buy realistic in stead of having a company supported by an air army and a SAM regiment.

Zing ;)

Well I had a Battalion of Germans and a re-enforced Company of Danes on the map. In my Previous game, I'd had "realistic" levels of AA support (4x HVM covering the entirety of the Royal Anglian Regiment). Those got smoked on turn 0 (By I suspect ARM/PGM combo mentioned above) leaving the Entire Regiment with out any AA weapons. I was trying to shoot down helicopters with 81mm Mortars for crying out loud!

Then when I ID'd the 5th Guards Tank army rolling towards one of my companies I moved reinforcements down to help that unit. However a couple of SU-25's dropped in to say "hi", and wasted the most of them.

This Time knowing my opponent, I figured he would do an Amphibious landing, so I got some boats to block him, and I suspected a Para drop on the Airfield. I Dug the Danes in on the Airfield, and lo and behold he did exactly what I thought he would. However the Danes, despite being Dug in on, and around the LZ in good positions, with some .50's to help out still caused Bugger all damage and got routed by RPO shemel fire.

So knowing there was Likely to be an Airdrop by considerable forces I went with a AA heavy army. :) It didn't work though, it might have worked if it wasn't for the PGM/ARM game play issue above.

[Griefbringer]

Sounds like you could have used a few non-radar guided AA assets. Sure, they lack in accuracy, but they can still ruin the day for a transport aircraft. And they would not be attracting radar seeking missiles.

Griefbringer

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Maybe the AI wants to buy realistic in stead of having a company supported by an air army and a SAM regiment.

Zing ;)

Well I had a Battalion of Germans and a re-enforced Company of Danes on the map. In my Previous game, I'd had "realistic" levels of AA support (4x HVM covering the entirety of the Royal Anglian Regiment). Those got smoked on turn 0 (By I suspect ARM/PGM combo mentioned above) leaving the Entire Regiment with out any AA weapons. I was trying to shoot down helicopters with 81mm Mortars for crying out loud!

Then when I ID'd the 5th Guards Tank army rolling towards one of my companies I moved reinforcements down to help that unit. However a couple of SU-25's dropped in to say "hi", and wasted the most of them.

This Time knowing my opponent, I figured he would do an Amphibious landing, so I got some boats to block him, and I suspected a Para drop on the Airfield. I Dug the Danes in on the Airfield, and lo and behold he did exactly what I thought he would. However the Danes, despite being Dug in on, and around the LZ in good positions, with some .50's to help out still caused Bugger all damage and got routed by RPO shemel fire.

So knowing there was Likely to be an Airdrop by considerable forces I went with a AA heavy army. :) It didn't work though, it might have worked if it wasn't for the PGM/ARM game play issue above.
Mhwhwahwah, trying to shoot down Helicos with 81mm, Doesn't sounds easy, also, does anyone thinks that We should be able to fire RPGs,LAWs,BAZOOKAS,Whatever into those helicos?

[Koh]

No. Because due to the backblast that would be extremely unwise. Unless you are in a tree or something.

And you already are able to fire them at helos. I've downed several helos with man portable AT weapons. I believe the helos need to be still and at low altitude to enable firing AT weapons at them. Same goes for MBT main guns.

- Koh

[Listy]

No. Because due to the backblast that would be extremely unwise. Unless you are in a tree or something.

And you already are able to fire them at helos. I've downed several helos with man portable AT weapons. I believe the helos need to be still and at low altitude to enable firing AT weapons at them. Same goes for MBT main guns.

- Koh

Correct, the Helicopter needs to be moving slowly, and you can nail it as a normal target. I bagged a Flight of AH-64's with T-80's like that. If A helicopter sit still in front of a infantry line I'll Unmask an ATGM for that shot.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Weird, I could never do that, i'll just try it.

[PanzerBob]

Another tactic against Helicopters if you are in a bind is hosing them with all the MG fire you can, the heavier the better. While you may not hit them I've found it will at minimum throw off their aim and at best suppress them. Of course if it's the Commanders Birthday or if you are very lucky a dead helo is possible!!! Transport Helo's can be "convinced" with this method as well usually with much more satisfying results. I once had an arty mission fall on a LZ I was landing in, 152's I believe, it ruined my whole day.:doh: So if you can divine the LZ for an Airmobile Assault getting your artillery retasked there would be to your advantage, especially any cluster munitions or large calibre guns.:eek:

No matter how it’s sliced purpose built attack helos can be problematic.

Bob out:D

[Listy]

Another tactic against Helicopters if you are in a bind is hosing them with all the MG fire you can, the heavier the better. While you may not hit them I've found it will at minimum throw off their aim and at best suppress them. Of course if it's the Commanders Birthday or if you are very lucky a dead helo is possible!!! Transport Helo's can be "convinced" with this method as well usually with much more satisfying results. I once had an arty mission fall on a LZ I was landing in, 152's I believe, it ruined my whole day.:doh: So if you can divine the LZ for an Airmobile Assault getting your artillery retasked there would be to your advantage, especially any cluster munitions or large calibre guns.:eek:

No matter how it’s sliced purpose built attack helos can be problematic.

Bob out:D

Yeah in the above mentioned battle my opponent very thoughtfully picked an LZ which had a priority target marker on it.

I did after much hammering away managed to wing one of the attack helicopters with a .50 from my battalion HMG platoon.

[BadCompany]

I didn't know you can attack Helis with AT weapons.I tryed to do a 'Black Hawk Down' style city assault.I gave the ai plenty of RPG teams but my Blackhawks weren't attacked by a RPG once.....thats unrealistic,it really takes away the feel.

[narwan]

I didn't know you can attack Helis with AT weapons.I tryed to do a 'Black Hawk Down' style city assault.I gave the ai plenty of RPG teams but my Blackhawks weren't attacked by a RPG once.....thats unrealistic,it really takes away the feel.

Did you keep them hovering for at least a whole turn (ie not moving them) within range of those rpg's? That's what happened in Somalia and that's what needed for AT weapons to fire at them. I think the max you can move a chopper and still be a AT target is something like 2 hexes.

It would be very unrealistic if you could hit a fast moving chopper with rpgs. So if you want the Mogadishu feel of black hawk down, keep circling the chopper right over the enemy at low speeds.

Narwan

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

i played Human x Human, and i managed to fire a RPG into a helico, it missed, but the helo ran, missing it's DZ for 1 more turn