Buggy- LA - Llama server - Send in your Pretenders

[Pelthin]

Information: I wanted to try a new pretender online. So I figured I would get the game together.
Age : LA
Map: The Eight Gates
Turns: 48 to start, 24 after everything is set
Number of players: 6
Mods: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39679

Let's keep it civil, and keep any treaties that are made.

1. Pythium - Pelthin
2. Ulm - Licker
3. Man - Grudgebringer
4. C'Tis - Ossa
5. Mictlan - Hoplosternum
6. Utgard - Dragar
7. Atlantis - Nikelaos
8. Midgard - nozshand

Game has been set-up on Llama server, here is the link to the game page: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Buggy
Changed the name to Buggy, as Llama wants at least 5 letters in the name.

[licker]

I'd like to sign up, though I'm not great with LA nations, so I'll have to hold off on picking my nation until I get a chance to refresh my memory on what LA nations I like :p

[Pelthin]

Feel free to suggest maps. I am looking through them on Llama server, but if they are not on the server let me know.

[GrudgeBringer]

If we don't have Ryleh or Ermor I will play...I would take man just to see what he can do ( I am pretty new by the way)

[Ossa]

I'd like to give Ermor a try;)

[Pelthin]

If we don't have Ryleh or Ermor I will play...I would take man just to see what he can do ( I am pretty new by the way)

Does it matter if someone plays Ermor? Are they way over powered or something?

PS - I am kinda new as well.

[licker]

Put me down for Ulm please.

I don't care about Ermor, its not necessarily a smart pick since everyone is potentially going to go after them anyway, but we'll have to see what we see when we see it.

[Hoplosternum]

I would like to play. Mictlan please :)

[Dragar]

Utgard

[Hoplosternum]

If we don't have Ryleh or Ermor I will play...I would take man just to see what he can do ( I am pretty new by the way)

Does it matter if someone plays Ermor? Are they way over powered or something?

PS - I am kinda new as well.

Yes Ermor are very powerful. As long as the rest of us act accordingly then there should be no problem. But if you treat LA Ermor as an ordinary neighbour then there will be problems.

Basically LA Ermor should comfortably win any 1v1 conflicts.

Plus his dominion kills population very very quickly so even at peace with him he trashes your lands (Ermors domain should always be 10 and he will be actively spreading it). So it is extremely hard to fight him in his lands (low or no pop = no supplies). And unwise to be next to him :)

His army grows hugely and losses are fairly meaningless to him. He will soon field armies of hundreds, then thousands and not really care if they get destroyed so long as he is causing your armies damage in the process. Expect his army after the first year to be many times the next strongest on the graphs. He is rubbish at sieging forts though :) His army looks more scary on the graphs and on the field than it really is, but numbers in the end do count.

Of course this power comes at a price. It is hard for Ermor to make friends and strong though he is he can't fight everyone else at once. At least unless the rest of us let him get established :)

The reason why he (and LA R'lyeh) are so often banned is not that they always win. Although they are strong they can be ganged up on and pulled down. But that they dominate the game that they are in. All of the rest of us have to play with Ermor in mind. Build lots of priests (Banishment is the best spell vs Ermor for a long while), fight him or at least not fight those who are etc. Until he is dead or has won. If you do kill him off there is then a large dead (no pop) area where he once was.... This game will be all about LA Ermor. That is both good and bad :)

[Hoplosternum]

By the way I am fine with Ermor being in. It can be good fun fighting him, if a little frustrating at times. Especially if you win yet realise the lands you take are worthless :p

[Pelthin]

Awesome. Let's see how we fare then.

Did not know all that about Ermor. If anyone wants to change just send in the different pretender, and i will update afterwards.

:)

[licker]

Just to make sure I'm clear on what I need to do...

I send an email to llamaserver with Buggy in the subject and my pretender (with CBM 1.3 compliant) as an attachment correct?

[Pelthin]

Yeppers send a pretender to pretenders at llamaserver dot net.

Subject needs to be Buggy and it needs to be compliant with 1.3 CBM.

Also, the map is at: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=36215

Hope that explains it. Feel free to PM me if you need help.

[licker]

Ok, I sent in my pretender file...

I hope I picked the right one :p

Oh, btw... which version of 8 gates are we using? Also it is something like 35 provinces per player which seems pretty big, but I suppose that's fine.

[Dragar]

yeah just took a look at the map (well, one of the 4). It is very big for 6 players. Ermor will be licking his lips

[licker]

It is a nice looking map though.

You could probably stand to add another couple players if you wanted to, but its understandable to want to keep the game smallish too.

[Pelthin]

Does everyone want to add more players? I am open to it, just wanted a smallish game.

[licker]

Well its up to you, I'm fine either way, just pointing out that there is plenty of room on a 220 province map for more than 6. Though keeping it at 6 would hopefully mean that it also moves more quickly, and lets people not worry about rushing that much.

[Pelthin]

My thoughts exactly. <shrug> Let's keep it at 6, unless everyone else has an issue with it.

Nice long game with plenty of magic. :)

[GrudgeBringer]

I have extracted the game ( I think there are 6 parts to my maps folder but it isn't appearing like th eothers I have D/L.

Now it has been a while since I D/l a map so I may have done it wrong. I extracted it hit CnTrl and cpopied it (all 6 of the files including the TGA) into my map file but nothing shows up when I an doing a test creating a game. I am not sure if I am adding too amny files or what...any help would be appreciated.

[Pelthin]

Did you D/L the Zip or Rar file.

I D/L'd the Rar and I can see 4 maps when I go to create a test game.

eightgates.tga looks like the main file. There are 4 others other than that.

Make sure the eightgates.tga is in the root maps folder, and not in a folder in the maps folder.

Hope that makes sense.

[GrudgeBringer]

I D/L the zip... I just checked other map files and besides the TGA there are other files just not 5 total.

I D/l to desktop and then put it in my map folder and extract the TGA and all the other files are in htier but nothing happens...I know nothing about RAR files

[licker]

Well it extracts them into a folder, and you have to take the files out and put them in the main maps directory.

At least that's what I did.

[Hoplosternum]

Well it extracts them into a folder, and you have to take the files out and put them in the main maps directory.

At least that's what I did.

Same here. Then they work fine.

[GrudgeBringer]

Man....I took a nap and when I woke up it was clear how I did it before (sigh).

Better hope I don't make my moves after a nap...I might last 25 turns

Pretender will be in shortly

[GrudgeBringer]

I was just on the IRC channel and was asking about a map this big with 6 players and Ermor and the general concenses is that because of the limited players and the size of the map...Ermor could have around 30 to 40 thousand armies (mostly chaff) by turn 40. Its a Beutiful map but as they said the games already decided.

So I will withdraw since I always stay till the end and it sounds like a horrible end for a noob.

I will check back and if we get more players or ermor is not an option I would love to play and change to LA Argatha.

If not I wish you all the best of luck!!!

[Dragar]

I have to agree, we really shouldn't have ermor with a map this big - neeed to either increase number of players, change map or not allow ermor

[Pelthin]

Well since Ossa has not sent in Ermor, why don't we jsut take him otu of the loop as Ermor.

He can change or not play.

I will send him a PM. I like the idea of a big map and a few people as it will give us all time to really get into the magic..

So Ossa, change and let us know.

Thanks.

[GrudgeBringer]

With 6 I think we have an average of about 33 Provinces (approx) each....

Even if ossa doesn't play I think we need to open it up to one more player to keep it at 6.

I am deciding between Argatha and Man....I am somewhat new and have never played LA so it will be one of those pretenders I send in tomorrow.

[Nikelaos]

i'd like to join as atlantis if there's a position open.

[Ossa]

Sorry for the delay - had problems with my internet access.

Will take something else than Ermor and submit my pretender immediately.

[Pelthin]

Great only one more play then.

:)

[Nikelaos]

C'tis, wow thats an interesting choice, i'm guessing you want some undead chaff output then, well good luck, i can't remember the last time i saw someone choose LA C'tis, their not that bad to be fair but it just seems weird when someone chooses them.

[nozshand]

i'd like to take midgard if you still need one mroe

[Pelthin]

Midgard it is.

[GrudgeBringer]

Guys, I had a problem at work and if you would give me till tomorrow (Sunday) evening and I will have my Pretender in.

If you can't wait I will understand....Thanks:doh:

[Pelthin]

No worries. Sunday is fine.
:)

[Ossa]

Actually... I just took Ctis by chance. I just wanted something different;)

[GrudgeBringer]

Sigh....Now it says I cheated on my pretender.

I am pretty computer challenged, could it be because I have CB on?

I just assumed that if the game wasn't set up for it then the gmae wouldn't read it.

What do you want me to do...it says it reduced my power but I would like to see HOW it reduced it...

I'm sorry guys,it seems as if I am being an anchor on this game.:doh:

[GrudgeBringer]

I just checked and I have NO mods enabled....can someone clarify why it says I cheated.

No where in the description does it say that any of the CB's are included.....

Just tell me what to do and I will do it...sorry

[Pelthin]

Grudge

Most likely you forgot to go itno the mods and turn on the CBM prior to making your Pretender.

Turn it on, and remake your pretender. I will get rid of your current pretender and roll back the turn.

[Pelthin]

Sorry. It looks like everyone needs to resend the pretenders to

Game: Buggy1

Sorry about that. When I rolled back the turn it deleted the game.

Guess I should have done something differently.

[licker]

Heh, don't worry it'll all work out eventually.

This way I get to use a different pretender design anyway :)

[GrudgeBringer]

Ok I set up CB 1.3 and resent to Buggy1 if this isn't correct (The 1 part) let me know

[llamabeast]

Yeah, you wanted to "restart" the game, not roll it back. I guess I should remove the rollback option from games on turn 1. It hadn't occurred to me.

I can restore the original Buggy if you want, but it looks like you've got most of the pretenders back in anyway.

[GrudgeBringer]

Ok, now that we are started I would like to know just a little about the map...What do the provinces with the Alters do?

I take it they represent the differnt schools of magic but what do they actually DO for you? More magic sites...artifacts...able to recruit magic users of that school...or are they just pretty?

BTW, its really is a very nice looking Map

[Pelthin]

You know I have no idea what they do.

I just thought the map looked nice, and the alters would add a touch of excitement, kind of like VP's.

:)

[licker]

Which version of the map are we using?

[Nikelaos]

Ok, now that we are started I would like to know just a little about the map...What do the provinces with the Alters do?

I take it they represent the differnt schools of magic but what do they actually DO for you? More magic sites...artifacts...able to recruit magic users of that school...or are they just pretty?

BTW, its really is a very nice looking Map


the alters allow you to go to the corresponding special province at the rightmost of the map, the special node provinces from a test on 1 of the maps contain a 3 magic sites, 1 is inkpot end which will disease some troops, 1 curses troops, and another depending on which of the maps you are using, gives you gems and indie mages of that element, i'e the astral node will have an astral mage for the taking. you can then from that node move to any altar of the same element so i can see an interesting game where noone is safe against attack from anyone.

anyways control over these nodes will be paramount if you want to win, they offer gems, a gauranteed indie mage to give you more magical diversity and finally the ability to transport your armies around the map quickly.

fellow death nations(and ulm-i think they're playing) i will hint that undead won't be penalised by the disease from inkpot end so be sure to station some on your nodes. At the least i think death nations have the strategic advantage on this map just for this.

All others, nows your chance to pester pelthin to start the game again.

Edit: forgot to say no population on nodes so no food for soldiers, another reason why i think the winner will be a death nation.

[licker]

Nice analysis, but we could be playing the vanilla version of the map where the nodes only serve as connectors to get you around the map faster.

I'm not sure whether I like the nodes or not (and I'm Ulm so I can concievable use them more easilly than some nations), but I'll give it a shot anyway.

Now if the Nodes were tagged as victory point areas and the victory condition of the game were to control all of them...

but yeah, that's not the condition ;)

[Pelthin]

Eww... I hadn't realized that was how the nodes worked.

Do we want to start over again? We can if you like and we can choose a better map.

Or just see how this plays out. Always fun to learn a new way to lose. :)

[GrudgeBringer]

I'm not sure I understand all this anyway (sorry I am new), SO....If I attack a Province with an alter and win, I will be whisked to the Icon on the side which I have to play lets make a deal and pick door 1,2,or 3.

Which I will either be screwed on 2 of them or rewarded on 1 and have to Protect it but I have no supplies.

Now the DEAD nations don't eat so they can park thier army there and not only protect it but transfer around the map?

Its a pretty map, but I think it may be a little too complicated for someone as new as I am.

I will withdraw but would be interested to read your forum as you play and see your take on it.

Thanks guys..

[GrudgeBringer]

I am not advocating changing the map but if a solution is worked out I would go ahead and play.:)

[licker]

I don't mind playing this map, but it would be nice to know which version we are playing.

There were 4 in the zip, one with nothing special at the nodes, and 3 with different kinds of specials/defenses at the nodes.

Anyway, when you take a province with a connection to a node you don't actually move anywhere, you just have a path to that particular node, think of them as stargates or something where each has a nexus point you can occupy.

I think you might as well give it a shot GB, this is my 1st MP game as well, and while the nodes may be confusing at first I think you'll figure it out quickly, but we do need to know if there is anything in the nodes to make them a priority to occupy or what have you.

Otherwise they just make the map 'smaller' since you can jump around more quickly if you have the right connections. Honestly they probably favor fliers more than anything else, but Caelum isn't in this game right?

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, we just did turn 2 and I have no idea whether I want to race for the alters or stay away till I am stronger....

I would like to know which version we are playing before next turn which I think is pivitol to us all.

Thank you and sorry for being so anal about it but I just don't want to go 10 turns and find out my strategy is oppisite of what it needs to be and I am doomed to a horrible end (i've had horrible ends...nooooo fun).

[Hoplosternum]

I think we are playing the version which has the mages at the special sites (The 'Recruity' gates version).

I think the game will be quite unusual as it is difficult to 'camp' at the gates as they have no population (someone said) and they link everyones empires so are very vulnerable. Usually you have fairly well defined borders but you won't be able to in this game as people will be able to move armies in to your heartlands via the gates.

I am not sure the gate bonuses will be crucial. Indie mages are nice and in this game everyone can diversify by recruiting from the gate sites. But they are rarely as good as your national mages. I don't know what has been placed at each site so this may not be correct although I can't think of an indie mage that is better than a top line national mage?? So apart from helping diversity they shouldn't decide the game. Plus everyone will be able to get in to death by recruiting at the death gate so everyone can go down that path in any case.

A few bags of wine/ cauldrens of broth/ Summer Swords will allow any army in to a gate safely anyway. But they will be hard to hold due to the number of directions enemies can come from.

Although we are up to 8 that is still only a few for a map this size, but the gates should let us meet each other much sooner. It should be an interesting and unusual game :)

[Nikelaos]

[QUOTE=Hoplosternum;641765]

A few bags of wine/ cauldrens of broth/ Summer Swords will allow any army in to a gate safely anyway. But they will be hard to hold due to the number of directions enemies can come from.
QUOTE]

afraid that won't work, magic sites in nodes cause disease and curse,

i would advise due to the amount of noobs playing and the difficult nature of the map we either use a different map or allow people to have a couple of days to work out the quirks in the map be we start it again.

also upon reaslising the nature of this map i myself would like to change to a more suitable nation, let alone our unexperienced players who need all the help they can get.

[licker]

Well first maybe we need to be sure we actually are playing on the version of the map with special nodes...

Or at least with the bad sites at the nodes.

[Nikelaos]

it's not even the sites on the nodes which concern me, but rather being able to transport armies with the nodes(i think this happens in all 4 maps), it can confuse our newer players and there are some which don't understand at the moment and need a chance to work it out.

I'm not sure I understand all this anyway

[licker]

I suppose, but people should play test the map a couple of times and have the hang of it.

This is my 1st MP (well since 4 years ago with dom2) and I'm not that concerned about it.

Its not too hard to edit the map so that the node sites are inaccessible though.

[Nikelaos]

i guess but i think it would be easier just to give people a couple of days to SP it or do a diferent map altogether, thou

[Hoplosternum]

I don't have a problem with restarting. But if we do I would simply choose a more standard map if that is what the problem is. I don't fancy practicing for a couple of days ;) If people simply want to choose different races / pretenders thats OK, but it will mostly help the experienced over the inexperienced.

I don't really agree that the map massively helps anyone in particular. As everyone can get access to death with recruity gates it's not too bad. Disease etc. does not kill quickly and you don't neewd to hold the gate for long although many of the gates will have massive unrest that has to be reduced before you can recruit.

The unusual nature of the map means that even the more experienced players will not know how it will play. We should have plenty of room due to the map size vs number of players. Yet the gates will shake this up.

But if all you can build at the sites are Necromancers or Illusionsist etc. they are not going to decide the game. Simply aid diversification (a bit - it is often combinations of paths that are crucial for forging). And all but undead / demons can't use the gates that easily due to disease but you can guard your access to the nodes easily with PD and standing forces.

Personally I have played a few mp games but am still inexperienced. Plus I have not played a blood nation in sp or mp before (although this is the third game I have just started with one). So I doubt I will win whatever we do :) I was quite looking forward to an unusual and chaotic game, but I appreciate that isn't to everyones taste. And if people feel at a disadvantage already I would rather we restarted.

[licker]

If we're voting I say stick it out, but, we need to know which version of the map we are playing on so that we can make the appropriate decision to prioritize gates or not based on if they are just connectors, or if they actually have fixed useful sites.

[GrudgeBringer]

Me too...I just want to know for SURE which version we are playing and what it will do.......

After that we can make a decision what we want to do. I agree that restarting on the same map does no good as we are only on turn 2 and redesigning Pretenders ect isn't in any of our best intrests.

As far as SP goes, I have kinda messed around last night with SP but don't know which map we are using so that was kind of a wasted effort EXCEPT I did find I was able to recruit a Priest (IF I built a temple) in one of the nodes.

As far as it taking me to the side Icons...it didn't do it so I expect I was playing the wrong game...

[Dragar]

i tried out the map for a bit and couldn't work out anything special about the node sites..

[licker]

Well there are 4 versions of the map, the '1st' one has nothing special at the nodes, the other 3 are variants on magic sites, extra defense, and dangerous sites.

[GrudgeBringer]

Ok, its not this hard....

Whoever set it up tell us which version it is.....PLEASE

[Nikelaos]

well seems the people have spoken, the show shall go on, now feel the wrath of my 29 research rainbow mage.

[Hoplosternum]

We are playing the Recruity Gates version per the Llama Server. Which has the mages at the gates and some bad stuff but not the really bad stuff at the gates / less guards at the gates. I think!

[Hoplosternum]

Per the map creator: Llama - The nodes have 0 population in all cases - no-one lives in these very weird and frightening places... and this makes them produce little gold, supplies and resources. The nodes hurt people with two sites... I think they are something like 1-5% horror mark and 1-5% disease per turn. (one is infinite vale or horror, the other is.. mayabe inkpot end). I wanted to throw a cursing one in also, but those all have other consequences I didn't want, like a city you can explore, etc.

So it should be Horror & Disease at the gates with the later not affecting demons or undead. For none Undead / Demons there is also the lack of supplies. But there is nothing so bad that you wouldn't walk an army through the gate on its way somewhere as long as you have supply items. Sure some troops will pick up a disease on the way but it shouldn't be crippling unless you actually camp there....

[Nikelaos]

tip: whilst testing this map with cealum one of my mammoth expansion forces passed through a node and 1 of my mammoths caught battle fright reducing it's moral to 5, next battle for no exact reason my harab elder decides to fly directly behind my mammoths even though i stationed him to cast spells from the corner of the map, the battle fright mammoth routed and obviously trampled my harab elder.

make sure when sending elephants and such units through nodes, you leave behind any who catch battle fright from the disease or make sure you take extra caution.

[licker]

Ulmish Commander: So forge priests of Ulm, when can we expect our new armaments?

High Forge Priest: Well, we'd really like to start turning out some weapons, but unfortunately we have no earth gem income.

Ulmish Commander: Excuse me? I thought that Ulm was a forging nation with high paths in Earth and a forge bonus?

High Forge Priest: Ahh, well perhaps you've been reading the history books too much. We're now a weak astral nation with a small forge bonus on our priests, who don't really have much earth magic to begin with. Oh, and we still don't have any earth gems.

Ulmish Commander: So what I am I supposed to equip my troops with? Sticks and Stones like those damn dirty apes?

High Forge Priest: Well, no it's not that bad, we still make decent enough gear, but if you want decent magic kit you'll need to find us some earth gems to use. I mean we could forge you some death, or astral, or nature items, except for one thing...

Ulmish Commander: Yes? Spit it out!

High Forge Priest: Well see, the forge priests don't actually have access to Death or Nature magic, and our astral magic is rare and weak. Besides the soothsayers claim they need all those astral gems for 'predicting the future'...

Ulmish Commander: So, you're telling me our fortune tellers couldn't figure out that we don't have any earth gems, and our forge priests can't use any of the gems we do have??? What a bunch of useless hags!

Soothsayer: I knew you were going to say that.

Ulmish Commander: Shut up!

Soothsayer: I knew you were going to say that, too!

Ulmish Commander: *sigh*... ok, so we've got forge priests who can make cheap items, but no gems for them to make anything with, and we've got fortune tellers who couldn't foresee this, and I've got to get my army together.

Ulmish emo goth kid: Blood! You need blood! and Vampires, and... damn, I just cut myself... hold on, let me dig up my Smiths CD...

Ulmish Commander: What the hell was that?

High Forge Priest: Yeah... see, Ulm now has been overrun by a bunch of these annoying all black wearing kids who keep on cutting themsleves thinking that they can conjure up some kind of Vampire Count or something. I don't really get it, but my kids tell me that all the cool kids are doing it.

Ulmish Commander: Uh huh... damn, I knew I should have stayed put at my last assignment, there were buff knights, and the forge priests actually had earth gems to use to make all kinds of sharp and pointy things.

Ulmish emo goth kid: I'm a creep.... I'm a weirdo... I'm... damn it, cut myself again, hang on...

Ulmish Commander: Ok, seriously, get that stupid kid out of here, and you, forge priest, get some earth gems, and find someone who can use them!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well there you have it, Ulm is (already) looking for people with spare earth gems. Maybe you don't have them now, but if you do have them, we'll be happy to deal with you to trade for them.

[Nikelaos]

i am suprised with some of the nations whom have had good starts, i really didn't expect the ambitious C'tis choice to do so well mind you perhaps my choice of atlantis was rather ambitious and i got to a good start (even taking away the massive research lead from my 29 research pretender)

also the proud nation of atlantis is willing to trade gems and very soon magic items for cash.

[licker]

Well if you don't start surrounded by heavy cav provinces any nation should be able to expand easily enough.

[GrudgeBringer]

Ohhhh, so you have scryed on my area already huh!!!

I am surronded by 70 barbarians on one side and heavy cav on another and just to make it interesting on the third side I have Heavy Inf, Archers, and light inf.

In about 10 turns when I have an army worth a damn I MAY get out of my Fort (and find Earth Gems to trade for virgins as my men have nothing else to look forward to)!!!:doh:

[Dragar]

One of my armies didn't move this turn, grrr... hate it when that happens

[Ossa]

Sse Lizzards of Ctis are cunning and mighty!

No, actually we just did so well because we could send both our men and women to war. We dont nurse anyway, and it's quite difficult to tell the difference between our genders in the first place.

[GrudgeBringer]

They must visit some of the same bars I do...

[llamabeast]

Hallo, just in case there's still any doubt about the map, you are indeed playing on the Recruity version. The map is by Zylithan by the way, not me.

I think it is an awesome map, and I've wanted to play on it for ages. I hope it's working out to be fun.

[licker]

I think the map will be fine, but it puts a larger emphasis on diplomacy since you will likely have many neighbors.

I do find the node sites to be unbalanced relative to each other though, some nodes are just better than others. However, I think that just makes it more interesting as there will really be contention over who controls which nodes, and you can't defend them easilly since they connect to so many diverse provinces, and the whole disease thing...

Looking forward to another couple turns when people start hitting the nodes for real :)

[Nikelaos]

the great nation of atlantis rejoices as we take the earth node, weirdly it gives a nature gem each turn and no earth (sorry ulm) and we decide we don't need the gems yet and will sell the gems from the site to the highest bidder.

atlantis also will be willing to give free rewards to long term customers for their loyalty and customers will be gauranteed peace with atlantis. Please also note that all profits from our gems will be put towards protecting atlantian nodes so the enemies of our customers will not be able to pass through them to attack. speaking of our protection policy for safety reasons we cannot allow people to own alters to atlantian nodes, terms and conditions apply.

SHOPPING REPORT - expect air gems to be in stock very soon!

[licker]

Ulmish intel has indicated that the Earth node is not really an earth node at all, but rather some relic from Pangeans past.

However, ulm would like to suggest that the 8 nations partition the nodes in a somewhat fair and proportioned mannor.

Ulm believes that the fairest way to do this is for the other nations to simply send ulm 50% of the gem income from each node they posses to help with the overhead in regulating proper node occupation governance.

Ulm is willing to take on this onerous duty, since our commanders are getting more depressed every day due to the ever increasing number of youths dressed in black cutting themselves in the capitol. Ulm believes that the commanders would be happier if they had something else to do, as crushing random militia and archers is not proving to be overly fulfilling.

[Nikelaos]

sure you're ulmish intel isn't my economical post saying i got the earth node or must i warn you to get your scout out of my lands?

also atlantis has will NOT be giving any free gems to anyone with the exception of long term customers as a reward for their loyalty, i suggest you get site searching and alchemiseing to give yourself gems as i doubt anyone will give you free gems from their nodes for nothing.

the atlantian corporation urges everyone to think carefully before giving away free gems, 50% of gems from all nodes is a heck of alot and ulm can't provide military support to everyone and as such have not valid payment for these gems, by all means sell ulm gems but make sure the price is right.

Atlantian International News(AIM)- horde your gems, ulm can't pay the price

[licker]

I didn't think I needed a ;) in the last post, but...

;)

Oh, and Ulm's soothsayers 'hacked' the map file to see what the nodes looked like. We tried to keep this knowledge from our commanders, but soothsayers looked into the future and decided that would be a mistake for them personally.

Of course these soothsayers also predicted that the new ulmish patriots would easilly defeat the Giants of neifelheim, and that really didn't turn out quite right... Several ulmish commanders lost their black plate in wagers with Pangean bookies.

[licker]

double post, stupid browser...

[Nikelaos]

lol the flavours here are awesome,would be epic if some other guys posted their flavours, now that would be a party.

for now atlantis is deliberating wether to spare ulm to keep teh flavours alive.

also i must ask- 50% of all gems from nodes? are you mad licker?

and do you think i outta put the translation to my signature in there, not sure how many people speak Malti here.

[licker]

Well in Ulm we like round numbers, mostly because we don't know how to work with jagged numbers as our priest smiths keep on hammering them back into round shapes.

The commanders wanted to go with either 100% or 00%, but it was pointed out that no one would go for the 1st, and the 2nd was pointless, so they decided to split the difference.

The commanders asked for a nice sharp sword with which to split this difference, having forgotten apparently that Ulm has no natural earth gem income, but the forge priests just told them that they would go ahead and split it for them, so that was settled.

The commanders then approached the soothsayers to get a new prediction so that they could win their black plate back. The soothsayers mumbled something about frozen fishies, which the commanders interpreted as a dinner order, so they are now setting off to find some fire gems since they don't like to eat their meals cold.

On the way our they ran into some more goth kids who demanded to know when the Vampire Counts were coming. Thinking this was the name of some new emo band the commanders promised to check at TicketMaster as soon as they had scrounged up the fire gems for the soothsayers.

In any case, the people of ulm are very confused about everything other than smashing random militias and archers.

[Nikelaos]

the emos have a point though, you outta head towards blood because it's easier to get the resources, powerful, and vampire counts aren't too shabby and can summon eachover creating a sanguine cycle of vampire summoning and blood rituals, off course the extra research from vampire counts is also quite a good reason to go that way.

[licker]

Oh, don't worry, those emo kids are running more of the show than the commanders probably think ;)

Well that's what the soothsayers would tell them, but the commanders are very disillusioned with the soothsayers right now. That and the fact that they were apparently promised to be part of an Ulm based on fire and steel, not blood and fortune tellers.

They'll get it all sorted out eventually, one way or another :)

[Nikelaos]

LOL my research done is 135, 2nd place goes to C'tis with 72, How i love being magicly powerful, i can see this lead snowballing a fair bit. Anyway you know who to call to forge frostbrands for your thugs.

[licker]

I'm getting an error when I try to open my turn 7 file and so, cannot play it.

Hopefully llama or someone can figure this out or I may need an extension.

And yes, I've asked for the resend but get the same problem.

Also, Pelthin, check your PM box...

[licker]

Hmm...

Well it seems to have sorted itself out after I disabled all the mods (though I had none enabled initially...), somehow the first time I loaded the game it enabled two mods, which may have caused the problem.

I exited, disabled the mods, restarted and was able to run the turn. Odd behavior... I also lost the commander windows on the first load of the game, which is really annoying, restarting dom3 fixes that problem though.

Anyway, we're getting neighbors now, how fun!

[Nikelaos]

why are we the only 2 who post licker?

also ulm wouldn't be interested in the buying of magic items? how about a black bow of botulf or maybe a bane blade, you could even go for a rod of the leper king to give some undead learship till your commander dies of disease, but heck just swap the rod over to an indie commander before the disease finishes him. i'm pretty sure ulm has problems with undead leadership so i would urge towards the rod.

[licker]

Meh, we can forge our own death items, and I don't really need anything at the moment, but I'll keep it in mind.

Apparently the emo kids have found a solution for the undead leadership problem anyway, so don't concern yourself about that ;)

[Ossa]

I didnt know the inhabitands of Ulm were really so deep into this Emo thing... must be quite depressing to be their future god.

If the god is at least partly shaped by the wishes and thoughts of his people... oh dear.



Does anyone of you want to trade me a dwarwen hammer? I dont know what to offer yet, but I'll probably find out soon.

[Nikelaos]

you know i could do with a dwarvern hammer aswell.

would certainly keep me with a pile of gems to sell surplus to my forged products, atlantis offers magic items or gems to whomever gives us a dawrvern hammer.

also atlantis has too many air gems, will sell them especially cheap.

[licker]

The priest forgers of ulm will be able to make dwarven hammers eventually, however, as previously mentioned, the emo kids have for some reason eschewed finding any earth gems.

If you have earth gems you are willing to pay for your dwarven hammer in we will be happy to oblige, but it won't be for a few more turns unfortunately, as the emo goth kids have been really cutting themselves more deeply than usual in anticipation of their favorite band 'the Sanguine Counts' doing a show.

[Nikelaos]

the atlantian corporation accepts giving ulm the earth gems for our hammer, we offer a magic item of our own as payment. also atlantis needs to know how many earth gems ulm would need for the hammer.

[licker]

I believe it costs 15 gems to forge a hammer with no bonus.

However, the ulmish forge priests do have a 15% forge bonus, which makes the hammers cost either 12 or 13 because at the moment we don't recall how the rounding works... ;)

In any case we are at least 3 turns from being able to forge them as we will need to forge earth boots first.

We apologize for the inconvenience of having to wait, and understand if you take your business elsewhere in the meantime, however we will let everyone know when our forges are open.

Assuming the emo goths don't bleed all over them and ruin them :p

[Nikelaos]

atlantis understands,

also it seems agartha has wandered an army of 60 men onto an air alter. Atlantis would like to warn that attacking the air node would result in the death of that little army of yours, we have done countless tests (via shift u to add units to a battle replay to see how they fare) and it seems grom brave breaker and his 30 men can alone take out 60 agarthan light infantry with minimal loses, tests with various amounts of your crossbowmen with the light infantry have come to a similar conclusion, it just happens that atlantis is moving grom brave breaker onto that node just in case to intercept, also just in case we decided to invest in a little province defence.

i hope this pursuades you not to squander your soldiers, if you wasn't anyway then my apologies good sir, but if i should have to slaughter those 60 it will not end there...

have a nice day. :D

[Nikelaos]

hmm do you reckon Mictlan staled?

we were waiting for them yesterday and usually when you are last to do your turn you'd be the first next turn beecause you're already ready to play, however it seems we are waiting on mictlan again, what a shame.

[licker]

I don't think he's staled yet, its the weekend he could just be busy or having fun ;)

[Nikelaos]

true but the turn is staled is what i meant and that's not good early game, especially since i was going to attack mictlan which is probably why i found out about the stale, i was looking into every detail too see the way

[licker]

You mean he staled turn 8?

How do you see this? I was under the impression that everyone had been getting in turns before the 24h limit.

However, if he is gone you are right, it is not good for the game balance this early.

[Nikelaos]

i know he staled turn 8 because he was the last to finish his turn for turn 8 and still was last left for turn 9 though he should have been able to do it first

use this link to check who submitted turns:http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Buggy1

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, I took that air node and no party for my army (Btw, I would evecute your spy as you are WAY off on the size of my army) If you want to call 3 Crossbowmen and 5 inf an army....If it was me, I WOULD bring that merc on down as I don't like that Particular Commander that is running my 'Army' anyway!!

ON a more serious note...I see TWO nodes on the right that have flags over them. I just took 1 node and nothing, No gems, no movement opportunities, no ownership. In the meantime I get threatened (no problem with that by the way) because Atlantis can see my army in the node (even though his estimate is wrong). I feel like I am wayyyyyyyyyy behind in the understanding of this map (and its my own fault I suppose for joining something I don't understand).

Someone please explain this in language a dummy (me) can understand or I will have to pass on trying to play this out.

Thanks!!!

If I can't seem to get a handle and understand (pardon my stupidity please) these nodes I am afraid I will have to

[Nikelaos]

sorry for the threat, you just can't be too careful these days, also i think we may be talking about different alters/nodes.

you definately had a decent sized army on an alter (not node), and i could see it from my air node which was undefended at the time which is why i panicked a bit. And you didn't take my air node? you sure you aren't thinking about the astral node or something which i don't own?

anyway in regards to you're serious note you seem like you've confused something to be a node but i'm not sure what or how, can you tell me the province number of the node?

[licker]

The nodes are the areas on the right of the map, the alters or portals, or whatever are the icons on the 'main' map.

You took an air (I assume) portal, which allows you to move to the node, not the node itself, otherwise I assume Atlantis would be fairly pissed off ;)

[Nikelaos]

if it was the node itself atlantis would be spamming sea trolls and wights right now.

EDIT: seems i was right, Mictlan has gone AI, think now is the time for attack, spamming of sea trolls and wights will start next turn, already sent my turn grrrr.

[Hoplosternum]

Really sorry about this but I have gone on holiday and I believed I would have internet access so that I could continue the game and diplomacy. But although I have Dominions and a PC I have no internet access. I won't be back for about another 5 days. Please can the game admin turn me to AI (you will need to change my email address and take my turn - turning it to AI - to do this I think.

I am very sorry about this. I thought I would have internet access (I have before when going on holiday in the same area but the cottage I has gets no signal at all nor do the nearby villages).

[GrudgeBringer]

Can't you just stale 1 turn and we give you an extension?

I hate to see you turn AI for only a 5 day delay.

Its ok with me if we give him the delay for 5 days.

[Nikelaos]

too late now i think, already gone ai.

mind you i have no idea wether or not you can assign someone to a nation which is currently ai so don't listen to me.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I guess I DON'T understand (and Yes, my army was MUCH bigger than I said) HOW to get to the Nodes.

I actually looked for a way and checked to see if there was an "Enter Node" button, but there wasn't.

I am off to a fair start but this I feel like I am falling more and more behind as there are now 3 'Nodes' occupied and whatever benifits they give and I am just wandering around in the dark.

I am normally one to fight it out to the bitter end, but I really DON'T understand this map. That coupled with being a somewhat 'New' and (sigh) 'Poor' player makes for a very long frustrating game.

Everyone else seems to understand the map so maybe its just me, but I need to get a 'Quick' understanding of the why's and How's or I am also going to join the ranks of the missing (as much as I hate too).

[licker]

Well I don't know what you don't understand.

There are movement arrows (which I assume you've turned on, press '8' or '9' to activate them, the other does province names) and you can see how everything is connected.

Go to a node by right clicking on it and you'll see all the places it leads to. Move your armies as you would to any other province, really they are no different, they are just located on the edge of the map. The nodes are not the be all end all for the game though, while they do provide extra gems they also make you potentially a bigger target.

Start a new game on the map with indies set to 1 and just cruise some armies around to get a feel for what's where and what and all that, shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes to understand what the nodes are and how they connect to things.

[GrudgeBringer]

LOL....NO, I didn't know about turning on 8 or 9 (Sigh):doh:

[licker]

Heh, well hopefully now it all makes sense :)

[Nikelaos]

atlantis has TOO MANY air gems, we have nearly 30 air gems and seriously need to get rid of them, selling cheap.

[GrudgeBringer]

Yes it Does make sense now and I wish I was smart enough to have figured it out sooner....However, everything in its own time.

Thanks for helping!!!

[Nikelaos]

does noone want air gems?

[licker]

Sorry, I can't use em :p

[Nikelaos]

i know man can, would man not like some air gems?

[licker]

Man isn't in this game...

[Nikelaos]

oh yeah, my mistake, saw the name on front page and forgot grudge swapped to agartha.

[licker]

The forge priests of Ulm are pleased to announce that they are now able to forge Dwarven Hammers, and are willing to sell them to any nation interested in purchasing them.

Payment may be made in earth, death, or water gems, or perhaps other forged items.

Ulm is also interested in acquiring earth gems for nature gems.

Let the trading commence!!!

[GrudgeBringer]

We have a situation that I have never encountered before so I am resolving it after consultation with a couple ot other nations.

I had proposed a Nap with Atlantis who accepted thing I was another Nation.

It was a complete mistake from the start and I informed him that he had the wrong Nation immediately and he offered me a NAP and a war in progress with him and his 2 allies.

I informed him that it would be fine IF the other Narions approved it and he got back to me withmore info.

So far I have not heard from him ...But I HAVE heard from other nations and while some of the information was true, it wasn't quite the way it was presented.

He also has not got back to me as if this writing with the info I requested by in=game message, PM, or in game forum with the disposition of the other Nations or the acceptance of the NAP.

There fore I am recinding any offer of a NAP and as a COURTESY only I am giving 2 turns warning that the Nap is and never was valid.

This turn will count as 1.

This is for documentation puposes only and I have akready informes Atalntis on in game messages as well as the other nations involved.

Thank you...Three Toed Pete Prophet to the people of Argatha

[Ossa]

I would like to add that we Lizards are a peaceful nation, and we wish nothing more than watching our eggs... grow... ah... and do our research. We dont want war with anyone.


Atlantis on the other hand invaded our country, and while Ulms action against our expedition was justified as we were mobbing up indies too far from our own border, Atlantis is nothing but a ruthless war machine.

Luckily we won all the major battles so far and have our army marching inlands, though we have no idea where his lands lie.

[Nikelaos]

War machine?

atlantis would like to inform we were ASKED by ulm to offer help, and as you have stated ulm has a good reason for attack, we were simply protecting our trade interests by aiding a customer who we are currently processing an order for frostbrands from, once in the war our actions may have been harsh (declining a nap after some fighting) but such is the nature of war.

We would also like to point out that we have recently sent a generous gift of 50 air gems to utgard after agreeing peace.

Anyway i don ot believe our bad press is completelty justified and would like to propose a deal, Ctis we will leave you to lay those eggs of yours with no further campaign or rallying nations against you, for some simple win win trade, free magic weapon with the first order.

[Ossa]

Hmm... no, that deal is not acceptable right now.

[Dragar]

Once those eggs start hatching they need somewhere to live right?

[licker]

The ulmish high command feels the need to provide the following update:

Hammer production is underway, but earth gems are scarce, any nations asking for hammers from Ulm from this point on will have to provide prepayment of some earth gems to offset the cost.

Our brief war with C'tis resulted in control of the north east of this land, but the cease fire which was agreed to will expire on turn 25 (allowing for hostile actions again on turn 26). [note to C'tis, this is not a de facto declaration of the recommencement of hostilities).

In spite of catching a Pythian assassin in our lands the NAP with Pythium remains in effect.

Atlantis has proven an honest trade partner, and we thank them for their custom.

We have had contacts with both Agratha and Utgard, and are dealing with them in an open and honest manner. The only nation we have not had any dealings with (other than Mictlan) is Midgard, though we have not sent any emissaries to them either.

The number of unclaimed lands is rapidly diminishing, and the ulmish command is prepared to deal with the eventualities of new borders and perhaps new foes. The sanguine counts have awoken, and their numbers are growing daily, these immortals do not take kindly to intrusions into their dominion, and are more than capable of wiping out small to medium sized forces by themselves. The ulmish army in and of itself is also quite large and stands ready to repel any incursions.

Let it be known that Ulm is interested in open and honest dialog with any whom would seek it.

the Ulmish high command

[licker]

The 2nd circle is saddened to learn of the demise of their 1st count, however, he did not listen to their advice and rather than attacking as he was instructed he rather decided to spam mostly meaningless spells and over fatigued himself.

He will be missed, but there are a dozen others ready to take his place.

We also would like to state that while the Giants may indeed be large, they are mostly harmless if you keep your thermostat low.

[Dragar]

That's right, the big friendly giants of utgard just want to hibernate in their chilled caves. They are only stirred when nasty reptilian folk start melting the snow and flooding our homes

[nozshand]

Ad a friend of lizard people, Midgard demands Utgard to withdraw their amry from the peaceful nation. Fail to do so will result in the termination of Non-Aggression-Pact.

The justice has to be done.
- Nozshand, High Councilor of Midgard

[Dragar]

Excuse me??? Ctis attacked Utgard the turn after a NAP was breached. is midgard as dishonourable as the lizard folk??

[Nikelaos]

dragar i would stop you there, i do not believe midgard to be dishonourable, to keep such wild expansion without being too militaristic to others at all, i must say i am in awe of that.

however i do believe midgard may have been misinformed, or at very least not told the whole story, i do believe a spot of tea is in order?

EDIT:i really have to stop saying "i do/do not believe."

[licker]

Midgard would be dishonorable if they attacked before the NAP notification ended, I think that is what the Giants are mentioning.

So far Ulm has found every nation we have had dealings with to be honorable, and we have strived to treat all our negotiations as openly as possible. It would be understandable if C'tis were unhappy with our decision to press the war with them after the CF ended, but as explained in our communications with them, we were bound to honor other agreements with other nations.

What is most unfortunate for this game is that Mictlan went AI, which gave Midgard a 2nd area to expand into without any worries about diplomacy, so I'm not sure its really fair to credit them with non militaristic expansion, though they clearly took advantage of the situation better than anyone else was able to.

[nozshand]

Midgard will honor the NAP, As the NAP stated hostile action can only be taken 3 turns after the termination, thus the notification period ends at turn 34 and hostile action can be taken at TURN 35.

[Dragar]

Very well, the giants shall clash on turn 35, and the earth shall tremble.

Let it be known that Utgard warriors will honour equally their slain enemies, with skinshifter hide belts complementing their snakeskin boots.

[licker]

The ulmish high command would like to address the following issues...

While it is true that the emo goth kids were right about the counts, we still insist that they keep their blood lettings contained in the designated areas, the unrest it causes the regular peasants is very upsetting.

We would also like to apologize to C'tis for the mix up in the counts schedule. Seems they thought the lizards were interested in their music, though they aren't really musicians as such, and when the lizard fans rushed the stage, the count unfortunately was so frightfully awesome that the panicked lizards eventually fled their homes entirely. We are taking steps to counsel the sanguine counts on their behavior outside of friendly dominions.

It also seems clear that certain nations have taken advantage of the goodwill of the atlantian merchants, we are sad to see this transpire and hope that atlantis is able to at least maintain some presence, even if it is underwater.

It also seems that some members of the 2nd order were seen participating in an engagement with the army, we would like to remind the army that magic in ulm is banned, other than by the members of the priestly order, whom are seemingly too busy at their forges these days to actually police the magic sector, and when our captain was sent out to investigate he and his men returned in a feeble minded condition, clearly the members of the 2nd order are not to be triffled with.

We would also like to send our warmest regards to Pythium for remaining such a staunch supporter of our lucky lottery program, and to Agartha for maintaining the status quo in the east.

We cannot take an official position on the difficulties currently brewing between Midgard and Utgard, but are sure that two nations with such closely matched names cannot possibly be really trying to eliminate one another.

[Dragar]

Midgard will honor the NAP, As the NAP stated hostile action can only be taken 3 turns after the termination, thus the notification period ends at turn 34 and hostile action can be taken at TURN 35.

It is now turn 34, the last turn before the giants can war. Use the turn wisely warriors of Midgard. Enjoy your last meals, say goodbye to your loved ones and make peace with your gods

[Ossa]

The empire of Ctis has finally crumbled!
The vast armies of morale 8 PD fled the field before making contact with the enemy, and all our posion slingers tried to hit the same archer. (He died. Many times over, but unfortunatly alone.)

We were on the road to victory in our war with Atlantis, but against two nations we could make no stand. Especially with soldiers like our militia (I did not know they suck THAT bad), who managed to trample even our sauromancers on their flight.

May the nations of Midgard and X prosper and take the sacred relicts and leaders of our nation into their open arms and grant them a safe heaven.

[licker]

The ulmish command were surprised to see that the lizards had used so much pure chaff, indeed it never reached the battle proper, though the rest of the lizard infantry and assorted serpents comported themselves quite well, unfortunately they were still no match for the superior ulmish firepower.

None the less, the forts may be sieged, but the battle is not won by any stretch, ulmish scouts assure us that the lizards and their mother may yet have some surprises saved for us when the time for the assaults finally arrives.

C'tis indeed faced long odds against 2 nations, but saddly thus is the way of this world, as Atlantis can equally attest.

[Nikelaos]

indeed, we ourselves got our just deserts when pythium decided to attack us. we do not blame them, they had no room to expand and were the backwater nation of this game. Though we don't doubt they're cause we must also defend ourselves and that is what we shall do.

We urge some fairness for this fight and as such want it to be fought via the queensbury rules, we would like for noone to interfere, this is a battle of honour for atlantis against the now vastly superior pythium.

Old friend pythium, good luck on the road ahead, now prove you're claim to our frozen coasts.

[GrudgeBringer]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, I had to work this weekend and the 6 hour turn notice comes at 5 AM cst so I staled.

I HATE to stale!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess its my own fault, but that 5 am notice kinda makes it hard over here in the Heartland of the USA.

[nozshand]

victory after victory, the force of Utgard has been proved no match against the mighty army of Midgard, though the false god of Utgard has escaped his fate this time, the falling of Utgard empire is irreversible.

Nozshand, Midgard

[Dragar]

The boundless armies of Midgard wreak havoc in the lands of Utgard, but Dragar, Son of Niefel, remains strong! His people have full faith that he will deliver them from the tyrannical Galdermen and their swarms of skinshifting minions!!

[licker]

If possible can we move this game to a 48h schedule?

We've done really well so far, but I'm finding myself feeling a bit rushed, and would really prefer not to feel the pressure to put in a turn a day.

thanks for considering it

[Dragar]

I've really enjoyed the pace of the game, and would love it to keep motoring along (go on holidays in several weeks). That said, we want everyone to be able to give it their fullest

How about shifting to 48 hrs, but everyone tries to complete within 24 hours wherever possible? I'm happy to lift the limit, but would be good if most turns still come through quickly

[Dragar]

It seems to be a bit chilly in utgard at the moment, frost bite has sadly seen the demise of many midgardian skinshifters this past couple of turns. Perhaps they will fare better in warmer climes?

[Nikelaos]

Mighty large army you have there pythium.

[licker]

I'd still like to keep the pace up, but there have been a couple of turns I have sort of rushed in, and while nothing major was skipped I'd prefer to be able to actually have the time to think about some major scripting efforts...

That and there is quite a bit of chatter to get back and forth on, so a little extra time would be nice since weekdays I only have ~2-3h to actually review and submit my turns.

[nozshand]

i vote for 48hrs, i only have about an hour everyday to submit my turn currently, and im going oversea next week, so time is not on my side

[Pelthin]

I will change the time frame to 48 hrs.

[licker]

I will change the time frame to 48 hrs.

Much appreciated!

The ulmish scouts had long reported that the lands of Midgard were rife with mages and other powerful magics, and when the news of the pending war with Utgard came the scouts redoubled their efforts to ascertain the extent to which Midgard had prepared their military, since the early war with Mictlan was doubtless no longer a measure of their might.

The scouts were not surprised, but not happy, to see the full extent of the arsenal Midgard had at its disposal, artifacts of surprising power, armywide enchantments, masses of battle mages raining down lightning and trying to get into the minds of their opponents.

Thus it was decided that the war could not be allowed to transpire without some form of intervention, and while the tricky lizards of C'tis were proving difficult to completely subdue [due to what I percieved as a bug, since when I stormed your fort some turns after the big battle I had gotten zero scouting reports saying you had anything in it, and I assumed that the rout had killed your forces, otherwise I would have sent more than 3 stupid commanders to get slaughtered...], teh sanguine counts positioned themselves do do some raiding of the Midgard rear to hopefully disrupt their income and force their armies to respond.

These forays were successful, and will continue while our scouts search for better targets, and our armies reform themselves to repulse whatever forces Midgard may chose to send against us. We caution both Agartha and Pythium that while it may seem tempting to join your lots to that of Midgard the end result will not be beneficial for you, as the longer Midgard is allowed to project their massive research and mage advantage the less hope any of us will have.

ulm

PS. I would have posted this sooner, but my time is getting squeezed, and the forums were apparently down last night, or at least I couldn't get into them. I didn't really want my entering of the war against Midgard to come as a complete surprise (not that I think it did anyway, but Midgard and I have never really communicated on anything), and I hope to see some real fireworks now :)

[GrudgeBringer]

I have already staled once due to the turn limit coming at 5 AM CST.

48 hours would be great.:)

[nozshand]

i sent my turm twice, the llamaserver does not seem to respond to my email, maybe the server is down again

[licker]

Man, I just noticed...

Did you really go AI Pelthin? That's going to be a potential mess, its a big nation to drop out, is there anyway to snag a sub instead or is it too late?

[GrudgeBringer]

IF he went AI I need to reset my turn.....

Unless I hear from someone I am going to assume he DID go AI and your right its gonna be a MESS but a boon to Atlantis:eek:

[Dragar]

it was a couple of turns ago i think? its clear he did if you look at the game page on llamaserver

[Nikelaos]

he went ai, he decided the game didn't make any sense to him. i think i annoyed him a touch.

60 atlantians vs 260 of pythiums troops including his god and his entire army died except a handful of preists who seemed to do very little in the fight.

after watching the battle replay i couldn't resist sending him a message with a THIS IS SPARTA!!!! pun included.

anyway i've had like six revised turn messages sent to me even though i only sent my turn once? is it a problem with llamaserver and has anyone else had this problem, also my turn doesn't seem to have arrived though everyone's submitted. I'll check later it's 48 hr turns anyway so i got time.

[Dragar]

yeah the server is being didgy, as it always seems to be whenever llama isn't around!

[licker]

it was a couple of turns ago i think? its clear he did if you look at the game page on llamaserver

Well I know you told me this a few turns ago, but I didn't think I saw it reflected on llama...

Anyway, we're all aware of it now, so what's done is done.

Is there any chance of finding a Sub? Is it too late once someone goes AI?

Otherwise there's just going to be a bit of a rampage I guess :p

[Nikelaos]

too late once someone goes ai

[GrudgeBringer]

Wasn't he (Pelthin) the ADMIN for the game?

Someone is going to have to tak eit over...(Not I as I don't have a clue).

[Nikelaos]

Hmmm good point, any volunteers?

[licker]

I can do it, not really much to do other than grant extensions...

That said Pelthin can still do it even if he's not in the game, just a question of how much he will check the thread.

[Nikelaos]

he won't be, apparently he's quiting dominions for a strategy game that makes more sense to him.

[GrudgeBringer]

LOL, I have sometimes thought that myself!!!

[licker]

For the first time since the early years when C'tis sent armies through the astral node into what were to become Ulmish lands our dominion has been breached by a middling sized force of skinshifters from Midgard.

It was not unexpected though, as our raids into his lands were certain to provoke just such an occurrence, but the presence of the army dose not sit well with the ulmish high command.

They fear our rear forces have become too soft and unbattleworthy as the main ulmish host still remains in the former lands of C'tis quelling the remnants of the lizard empire. To be sure, our main battle host has seen combat with the C'tisian would be god 3 times, and twice emerged victorious, with the last victory hopefully crushing enough to finally spell the end of Lizard rule in the north of the land.

But as plans are made, so must they be unmade, the untrustworthy lizard riders of Pythium apparently broke all agreements, and sealed themselves in seclusion, refusing any communications and beginning to amass forces along our once peaceful border, while the forces of Midgard remain mostly hidden in their vast southern lands, with only sporadic armies retaking the provinces we raid with our host of sanguine counts.

However, all is not so amiss, the noble giants of Utgard have remained our friend, as we to them, during this time, and the secretive cave dwellers of Agartha have likewise given no cause for immediate concern, though our scouting reports from their lands remain sketchy at best.

The ulmish commanders have finally given in to the ever growing hoard of emo goth kids and their blood cutting ways, realizing that there is potential power in the horrors these children revere, even occasionally working with them to summon these horrors into existence, though always far from the ulmish homeland.

Only time will tell what the ultimate result of the nascent war with Midgard, and the brewing war with Pythium will bring, or even if the lizards of Ctis are finally beaten or if they have yet some trick to spring, but the sanguine counts assure everyone that they have nothing to fear from their sweet kiss, it brings only happiness and release from the burdens of this world, and all should be happy to embrace it.

[Nikelaos]

atlantis and agartha have agreed to share the lands of pythium, indeed pythium was aiming to decieve us all along and their hordes of troops crashed down on us despite our NAP,

our small elite has destroyed horde upon horde of troops who's bodies litter our lands, even their god slain twice, now they're high command has run and an artificial intellegence guides them, it is finally time for atlantis to take back what we deserve, though we also seek to keep good terms with agartha so that we may all unite to the real threat - MIDGARD

indeed they have become too powerful and our allies the noble giants stand trieing to hold them off, come people, unite before it's too late.

[Dragar]

The hordes of Midgard are quiet at the moment.. small raiding parties still leave their lands but the true might is hidden. It is too much to hope for the other nations of 8 Gates that they have lost their nerve. Where will they strike next??

Will they seek to challenge the might of Utgard's almighty pretender again? Will the forges of Ulm be targetted afore mighty weapons of destruction are perfected? Perhaps Agartha shall be the victim before Darkness can fall

All that is certain is that the giants of Utgard will stand strong with their allies, and that Dragar, Son of Niefel will drown his blade in Midgardian blood many times ere the war is over

[GrudgeBringer]

I am confused...

I did turn 43 and tried to send it in to no avail since we whrere having the problem with the LlamaServer.

Today I got a turn that also said turn 43....After some (sigh) consideration on whether I should REDO that whole turn, I decided to go ahead and load that turn just to make sure it wasn't a NEW turn 43 that had to be done as maybe the OLD one would not take (so to speak).

When I did I got a turn 44 and I staled I guess.

We need to roll it back, get the original turn 43 back or wahtever as it seems the whole game is at war with someone and staling isn't an option.

ANYONE else have this problem....Stated agian, the NEW turn that says Turn 43 when loaded says turn 44.

[licker]

I haven't sent my turn for 43, and won't until llamabeast has figured out exactly what's going on.

I would suggest that no one send any turns until we hear from llamabeast about what's going on, and then we can hopefully roll back to 43 if we need to and just go from there.

Hopefully there were no 50/50 events/battles that turn which could go the other way for anyone.

[Nikelaos]

ugh i sorta deleted my turn 43, resend please when llamaserver is working?

[Dragar]

once its working you can ask it to resend the turn easily enough

i had a lucky event that turn :( more important to avoid a stale though, so no worries if we need to roll back

[Nikelaos]

nevermind i found it with all my other deleted email for the week,

also i seem to have a forgiving father here with 3 experience stars and a champions trident, but i can't remember there ever being an arena deathmatch (no way i could forget the list of 'there has been a battle in the arena' messages), was there one and was i the only person to send someone?

[licker]

nevermind i found it with all my other deleted email for the week,

also i seem to have a forgiving father here with 3 experience stars and a champions trident, but i can't remember there ever being an arena deathmatch (no way i could forget the list of 'there has been a battle in the arena' messages), was there one and was i the only person to send someone?

Probably, I saw the event, but never bother sending anyone, prize is not worth it to me.

[Dragar]

yeah I didn't send anyone. Congrats to the forgiving father, his mercy has been rewarded

[GrudgeBringer]

I got another turn 44...I am not going to send it in.

We ARE going to roll all this back to turn 33 correct?:confused:

[licker]

I did not send in my turn 43 and have recieved no new emails.

My guess is that when llamaserver is up again we should just send in our turn 43s and see what happens.

If its not on turn 43 then we will roll back to turn 43 since that's where it tanked.

[GrudgeBringer]

LOL, 33 would be a bit much...I meant 43.

Actually I received Yesterday or so a turn labled 43 but it was actually 44 when I loaded it and said I had a stale.

Tody I received a turn labled 44 and it also said I had a stale.

So it seems we are getting different e-mals from the server. Since our ADMIN bolted on us I suggest we Give that responsibility to Licker and let jhim do whatever is necesary to get us back on track...:up:

[Dragar]

we're rolling back one i presume?

[licker]

Seems to have been done for us, I got the same turn I remember for 43, and sent in my turn (which it had saved anyway...)

Hopefully everything is ready, if you notice any major wierdness let us know, if it's minor weirdness probably not much to be done though ;)

[GrudgeBringer]

I deleted the 2H file totally and just put the new turn 43 in there and it is up and running!!!!!!!!

Does anyone know how many hours GMT is ahead or behind (I suspect its ahead 5 or 6 hours) of Central Standard Time in the USA?

Also, I will be doing my turn over the weekend so I hope we have until Sunday to complete it.

Licker, are you taking over the Admin?

OK men...let the fighting resume!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[licker]

I'll take the admin if pelthin is really gone, I already asked llama about it, but he hasn't PMed me anything yet.

I hope this works, I got some error with my turn in another game, so hopefully no issues here, since it takes around an hour for me to do my turns for this game.

[GrudgeBringer]

I read somewhere where it was BEST if you DELETED the whole old 2H file and then put the NEW turn in that folder (or whatever you have it in) and go from there.....worked for me and I was having big problems until I tried that.

Might be wirth doing it so you don't have hidden problems also.:)

[GrudgeBringer]

arghhhhhhhhhhh, DO NOT delete the 2H file, DO delete the actual TRN file and replace with new...MY BAD

[llamabeast]

No, do delete the 2h file if it was produced from a different trn file.

Generally dom3 ignores 2h files from different turns. But if the turn number is the same, but it's from a different trn file (as happens after rollbacks and so on), dom3 can get itself in a massive confusion.

On the other hand, if you delete a 2h file that you're meant to be using, you just lose a load of work I guess. :shock:

[licker]

Just want to bring this up ahead of time...

This game has been most enjoyable, and still has alot of potential action left, but...

I'm going to be gone from Nov 26 through the 30th, I'm also going to be gone for 2 weeks around xmas. I'd prefer it if we could just take a pause over thanksgiving, but I understand that already having the llamaserver pause may not make that a very satisfactory situation for everyone.

Ideally we can find a sub for me as I have an interesting position (well at least hopefully it will still be interesting by then...), but I'd like to get a feel from everyone left in the game about their situation at that time and what everyone feels is the best solution.

[Dragar]

On that note I will also be looking for a sub soon - I go on holidays for a while on Nov 22, will start searching for a good sub a week in advance. It is a really interesting game and it would be a shame to spoil it by having a poor sub or nation go AI.

Wrt the holiday period I'm able to play but am not fussed about pausing if most people are busy.

[GrudgeBringer]

Speaking of which....I know its a little early, but seeing how this is my first few months playing what are we going to do about the holiday season.

Its my busiest time of year in business also (not to mention family).

[Dragar]

C'tis and Midgard just staled - we haven't heard from either of them on the forums for a while so its entirely possible that they're not aware llama is back up and running?

I'm not sure what we want to do here, would be a great shame for unfortunate stales at this stage of the game, midgard especially.

Actually, midgard has staled twice... not good for this game :(

[GrudgeBringer]

Guys did anyone UPDATE this to 320 file version 321?

It says my Dominions game is too old.....

Only game I am playing that says it.


Maybe we should put game on hold for the time being and PM these guys and check out whats the deal.

C'tis put up a good battle but he is about done isn't he?

But Midgard quitting would be VERY bad for the game.

[Nikelaos]

i updated got no problems here.

[licker]

C'tis being set to AI probably doesn't affect much, but Midgard...

yeah that's an issue.

[Dragar]

Ctis has submitted this turn, we really need to hear from midgard

[GrudgeBringer]

I'm updated NP here

Nikelaos, are you attacking the fortress next turn with that large army? OR are you being besieged, (I can never tell...sigh)

[licker]

I've changed the host time to 96h so that we have a little more time to get midgard back into the game.

2 stales in a row really sucks for him though, not that there was a lot of damage done, but it allowed Utgard and myself to further strengthen our positions against him just due to troop movement.

Not much to be done about that, but if we don't hear from him in a day or so we should look for a sub, setting him to AI is an option, but meh, I dont' think the AI will be able to use his advantages very well.

I can PM him, but I've never actually talked to him in the game, so maybe someone who's already chatted him up can do it, if not I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

[GrudgeBringer]

I sent him a game text this turn.....

I will PM him as I talked to him early on in the game although we havn't had contact in a long time.

[Nikelaos]

sorry guys it's been fun but i think i may go ai, i can't see me being much of a contender in this one and seing as i am having to pick up the pieces now from pythium i think it's getting a bit boring,

i've been wanting to give TC a go in MP but i need to clear some time into my timetable.

sorry guys cya.

Edit: can our gracious admin send me ai, can't be bothered to re send turn and it's alot less work for you :P

[licker]

Well it's your call, I will set you to AI for the next turn unless I find a sub.

Also any news on Midgard?

[vfb]

sorry guys it's been fun but i think i may go ai, i can't see me being much of a contender in this one and seing as i am having to pick up the pieces now from pythium i think it's getting a bit boring,

i've been wanting to give TC a go in MP but i need to clear some time into my timetable.

sorry guys cya.

Edit: can our gracious admin send me ai, can't be bothered to re send turn and it's alot less work for you :P

No, it's a lot more work for the admin, because the llamaserver "Set AI" function just tells you to go find someone who'll take the turn... then once you've found someone willing to do this for you, you need to update the email to their account, then resend them the turn, then they need to set the nation AI and submit the turn.

[Dragar]

yeah, can you please set yourself AI if you really want to go that way Nikelaos? Been fun playing with you, sorry to see you go

I think we need to find a midgard sub before this game just dies

[GrudgeBringer]

I PM'd Midgard and no answer.

Honestly, I just attacked Pythium because Atlantis wanted to continue so we made a line and i'm off and running....EXCEPT for one thing Now I have Atlantis as AI on my unprotecrted back and I have to battle BOTH of them.

NOW, lets throw in Midgard who I do have a 5 turn Nap with so I have a relative poor Defense agianst bordering Provinces. He goes AI and now I am at war with 3 nations and not enough armies.

This game is great but this is the ONE thing I hate about it.

We are in it around 2 months and all of a sudden I go from fairly secure and long range plans ...to at war with 2 or 3 folks because they dissaper.

C'tis...Congrats for hanging in there, your a trooper.

If we don't hear from Midgard soon we all need to figure out what we want to do.

Sorry, but this has happened in my last 3 games and when I am the one getting drubbed I at least try and raid and make someone take 2 or 3 armies to trap and destroy me. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:(

There, I feel better now

[Dragar]

I share your pain! It's definitely the most frustrating thing in this game, I'm a big believer in not going AI until you're literally 1.5 feet in the grave. We need a sub for midgard, not AI. Likewise for me when I go on holidays. A major nation going AI is just bad news.

[licker]

I made a sub request thread for both Atlantis and Midgard.

We'll see what we see, maybe C'tis would like to go AI and take over Midgard?

Its still alot of fighting, but at least it gives the chance for revenge on the two nations who took down C'tis.

[GrudgeBringer]

That would be ok with me....I've seen it done in other games and since they are familiar with the players and situations they generally do pretty well....Just PLEASE honor treaties already made...(LOL):D

[nozshand]

My apologies for the stale, but i have to withdraw from this game. My business trip took longer than i thought and i was unable to get internet access, even when im back now i still have alot unfinished work to do. It has been a good game so far and i hope i will play you guys again soon.

Nozshand, midgard

[licker]

Sorry to hear that nozshand, but understood.

I'm sure we'll all see each other elsewhere and remember who did what to whom ;)

Err...

Maybe you should just forget this game then...

;)

[Nikelaos]

well i'll leave it a turn to see if you get someone else, if not i'll go ai.

[licker]

Well we're not getting anywhere with any subs so what does everyone want to do???

[GrudgeBringer]

Honestly, If we have all those bailing out.... it really does put me in a situation that would be a nightmare of not my making to continue.

Declare a winner if you want as I know its not me and I will agree.

I am open to suggestions but it really is a bad deal.


LICKER, I have been wanting to ask you...In a EA game as Fomoria How would you design your pretender and scales.

I have NEVER played them although they look like fun and I was assigned them by chance.

Eveything I have read has been somewhat at odds with each other.

So as I respect your knowledge I thought I would ask you....:D

[licker]

Heh...

Well thanks for the question, but I've never played Formoria other than maybe once or twice just to look at the units...

I will go ahead and take a look if you want me to, but first, what are your thoughts on how you want to/think they should be designed?

As to the status of this game...

We can set Atlantis to AI without too much heartache I think (well none for me :p), but midgard going AI would be a big headache to Agartha, maybe...

I thought Pythium going AI was going to be an issue for me, but other than the AI putting up some armies on the border they have done nothing hostile towards me. Likely since they are already warring with Atlantis and Pythium.

So while it may not be a perfect solution, it probably wouldn't lead to immediate attacks on Agartha since Utgard and Ulm are already in the thick of it with Midgard.

I admit I'm interested to see how my late game strategies will play out however this gets resolved, I'm also interested to see how the diplomacy amongst Utgard, Agartha, and Ulm would play out assuming we all stick to more or less our current arrangements (speaking for Ulm only, I don't know what or if Utgard and Agartha have in agreements).

So I guess that means I'm voting to continue the game, with midgard, atlantis, and Pythium as AI, for at least a little while.

I'll still give it through saturday, but at that point if we've not heard anything I will find someone to set midgard to AI.

[Dragar]

you realise I'm less than a week away from leaving too? would either need to fins a sub for utgard, or be stuck with another AI :(

[GrudgeBringer]

ok...i will hang in there and we will see what happens:)

[licker]

Yeah...

This thing may fall apart, or GB and I may just slug it out vs a hoard of AIs...

I dunno.

Pity.

[Dragar]

yeah, its been a really fun game :(

[Dragar]

I've just posted looking for a sub, i leave for holidays in 3.5 days. Hope someone is interested, would hate to leave you guys surrounded by AI, would really ruin the game dynamics :( regardless I'll get at least one more turn in.

[licker]

Heh, thanks for sticking in there dragar.

Though if you go AI I don't know who it affects the most.

While I'm glad the game will move again, I'm sad that there won't be a 'legit' victory against the mages of Midgard (though my attempts in 'removing' them are working pretty well).

I'm looking at this now since I'm so big as a chance to see how well I can deal with multiple fronts, even if against a slightly predictable AI.

Midgard already is reacting to my forces (so hopefully Agartha doesn't have to deal with him), and I've stepped up my attempts to take down his income and even siege a couple forts.

I'm going to open things up on Pythium as well since he's massing more forces on my border and my forces in C'tisian lands are now freed up to relocate elsewhere.

So ideally I'll wind up with at least one safe border with Agartha, and hopefully Utgard won't leave any armies on our borders (not like he has any now...) for the AI to misuse.

I should also point out to Agartha that while I do have a pile of units on our border in my fort they are being generated there to transfer via a node, it's just a matter of getting the right commanders there to lead them and I've been pushing my research so much lately that I haven't taken the time to move them yet.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thanks for that Loicker...

I assumed that was more than likely the case as it makes NO sense to fight EVERYONE (LOL).

I am trying to take out Atlantis NOW so he can't be a splinter in my behind, but Pythium is building up right in that area. If he waits 2 more turns I have about 150 Nemedians arriving. I will leave Midgard to you as you indicated that you had some things you wanted to try.

Utgard pull your armies to your core and then the AI can do what he wants.


I have a question....When you have Nemidians and a nemidian Commander you have all stealth troops.

I have never dealt with stealth troops so I ask this....can I move into a province without initiating a battle or will it give me the option 'to attack' or not?:confused:

[licker]

If you move them the order should default to 'sneak' which means they will not initiate combat, though if they are 'found' combat will start.

If you want them to move and attack, you hold down the ctrl key when clicking on their destination and their order should show 'move'.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thank you for the info....

1 more question on stealth troops.....I'm sure its in the manual, but I sure can't find it.

How do my troops get FOUND if on sneak?

If a province has a unit on Patrol?

Size of army would be more thematic as a huge army going thru an area would make a lot of commotion ect.

Or is it just luck of the draw?

(I would like to know in case I play a stealth race myself..lol):)

[licker]

I don't know the exact formula, but if you look at the stealth icon for your units it will have a number from 0 up to 30(?)...

Higher is better for the sneakers.

Size of force sneaking does affect it as well though.

[licker]

Well it looks like we are down to three...

I'm not sure what the Giant AI will decide to do, but it could be a serious wrench in my plans :)

Anyway, Pythiums capitol has fallen, and we continue the march onto Midgards capitol meeting little resistance.

C'tis is establishing a new homeland, it remains to be seen how succesful they ultimately are with that though.

Ulmish research is reaching new heights though, and may be able to rival that of Midgard one of these days.

I'm not sure if Agartha has any kind of upsetting endgame planed though, hopefully he does just to keep things interesting. Ulm has managed to diversify it's abilities though, so we are prepared for whatever the future might hold.

Well not really prepared if Utgard attacks along our borders, but not much can be done about that :p

[GrudgeBringer]

I talked to C'tis and as he is not ready to abandon us and the game I have taken a NAP with him and gave him back the Province I had taken from him.

Atlantis is down to about 3 Provinces and 1 Fort (but its in the dang water) but I believe C'tis can go in water so I will leave that to him.

Pythium is starting to fall quickly and I was looking at Midgard...However with Utgard being AI and on my soft underbelly also.....This game could get REAL interesting!!!

As far as end game plans..LOL, I am trying to get thru the mid game right now.:doh:

[licker]

After years of searching and research tan ancient ulmish prophesy has finally been restored!

The forge of the ancients has been discovered, at great cost, but now the forge priests of ulm will truly be able to forge as their ancestors once did.

In other news, Utgard has begun minor attacks on ulmish positions in Midgard. Whether this is the beginning of a larger war, of just squabbling over soon to be conquered lands remains to be seen.

Also the fortresses of Pythium are fast falling to invading ulmish armies with a massive vanguard of freaks and various deformed monstrosities. Many of these monsters are indeed poison immune, so even while the Pythian capitol lies in ulmish hands, and thus, no more hydae can be spwaned, the mages of pythium still seem to enjoy spewing all sort of foul vapors.

Our scouts are also in position to watch the end of Atlants, and or C'tis, certainly once our forces have pushed aside the remains of Pythium these two nations will begin to draw our attention once again, even as we are engaged in a tedious and resource draining war with Midgard.

[licker]

Sorry for me slowing down the pace again...

Busy here and these turns take FOREVER.

Let me know if it's too slow, I'm looking at 2 turns a week or so.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thats OK with me....2 turns a week is fine:D

[licker]

Ossa-

I will agree to a CF with you since I agree, this game is over, and now we are just having some fun.

I will take the provinces next to your old capitol and otherwise leave you to duke it out with Utgard south of there.

I'm about to finish blood9 research to go along with alteration and construction at 9, mostly just to play around with the high level spells.

I've got a couple dozen clams and probably 30 blood stones, so my gem income is actually higher than shown on the chart, also I'm getting 100-150 blood slaves a turn, and haven't even bothered to optimize my hunting, otherwise I could probably pull in over 200 easilly.

I've got huge armies of cross breed creatures backed with my xbows, and supplimented with my cavalry. I've got 10+ counts running around, I've got 6 or so vampire lords making normal vampires to escort them, I've got a golem, I've got 2 arch devils and one father illearth.

I've got artifacts, I've got...

Yeah you get it...

Fun game though unfortunately Midgard going AI when he did just allowed me to run over him with little resistance. Utgard going AI didn't really matter unless he was planning to stab me with Midgard, but I don't think that was his plan.

Agartha and I had good relations all along, though very little interaction otherwise.

Unfortunately for C'tis he got double teamed (or triple teamed if you count atlantis) and didn't really stand a chance, I was more geared up to attack Pythium, but frankly he didn't look very threatening so I kept my agreements with him rather than giving him the 3 turn notice. Besides Utgard was unhappy with the heat loving lizards :)

I really enjoyed this map as well, the nodes made for interesting decisions, and made no one really able to turtle. I don't think they are overpowered either for their sites, though they can give you a tad of an early boost if you get to one you really need.

I'll keep going for a while, just to finish of Pythium and midgard, and for Agartha and I to set up some kind of battle royale between our armies, mostly just for the fireworks which would come out of it :)

[Ossa]

I'm out. I cant even defend against Utgard AI with such a bad position;)


You did a great job in this game, though I wished we would have been allies. Then I might have defended my lands from those giants.