Underwater Province Defense?

[Skirmisher]

I just noticed I can't buy any underwater PD. How do you strengthen underwater provinces?

[Poopsi]

you cant unless you are an underwater nation.

UW nations, however, can and do strenghten surface defenses. They just cant recruit anything but basic units. (barring LA atlantis)

[thejeff]

LA Mictlan also gets underwater PD, but no underwater recruitables :(

[Skirmisher]

you cant unless you are an underwater nation.

UW nations, however, can and do strenghten surface defenses.

That's not right it should work both ways, or remove the UW nations ability to have ground PD.

[Poopsi]

The rationale is that UW nations are amphibian, while terrestrial nations are not, barring some examples. (BTW, are you sure that Mictlan gets UW defense?).

As to whether it´s a big handicap or not hmm... I dont know, depends, I guess.

[thejeff]

LA Mictlan does get the standard Atlantean underwater PD.
Militia, Shield Wielder & Consort
then after 20
Militia, Light Infantry & Coral Queen

It's even in the manual.

[HoneyBadger]

LA Mictlan might end up with underwater recruitables, that's not terribly far-fetched, considering that LA Atlantis gets them.

I want Fomoria to get underwater recruitables! Undead ones, and creepy fairy sea-monsters, like kelpies, morags, merrows, cecaelias, lavellans, and dobhar-chu.

[Poopsi]

I want Fomoria to get underwater recruitables! Undead ones
wouldnt it fit better to have fomorian giants shapechange into something undead underwater (sort of like in Pirates of the Caribbean) and have those spawn "drowned sailors"?

[HoneyBadger]

Yes, I want that too, in combination with the above. :)

[JimMorrison]

Sure would be nice if everyone could at least get very basic (indigenous residents) PD underwater. It's hard enough to get into and fight properly in the water, but it's just depressing as hell when your opponent knows they can gobble territory back up with a lone scout or priest with impunity, because he knows nothing is defended.

And I'd go for some drowned sailors and creepy sea creatures that I may or may not have even ever heard of. >.>

[Lingchih]

It's usually possible to recruit an indie commander and some locals troops underwater, to kind of give a kind of PD. More expensive, but enough to keep scouts from taking your underwater provs.

[Poopsi]

When I was ten I was given a book on celtic mythology and another one on Egyptian, so I´m familiar with some general stories (such as the Fomorians, through I didnt know about the watery dead theme, or Long-Arm Lugh) and picked other stuff elsewhere. But I´m not too buff on those either.


My personal take: remove water nation´s surface PD capabilities. After all, they already have an advantage over their surface counterparts by having amphibious units, so they can still attack with minimal risk of reprisals.

[Loren]

As far as I'm concerned this is a symptom of a problem with PD.

Yes, as the game is written land nations can't recruit underwater PD because it would drown.

It bothers me, though--why do you always get national units in PD even if you can't recruit them in the province????

In the absence of a fort PD should be made entirely of local recruitables.

[Lingchih]

When I was ten I was given a book on celtic mythology and another one on Egyptian, so I´m familiar with some general stories (such as the Fomorians, through I didnt know about the watery dead theme, or Long-Arm Lugh) and picked other stuff elsewhere. But I´m not too buff on those either.


My personal take: remove water nation´s surface PD capabilities. After all, they already have an advantage over their surface counterparts by having amphibious units, so they can still attack with minimal risk of reprisals.

Ahh, Poopsi, you do not yet know how hard it is for water nations to invade the land. They need every advantage they can get, and then some.

[Trumanator]

Unless of course they're LA R'yleh

[Nikelaos]

yah but now there is LA atlantis to tackle them, don't forget other nations with amphibious troops such as mictlan and ermor.

[Edi]

LA Mictlan also gets underwater PD, but no underwater recruitables :(
This is a shortlisted issue known to the devs.

[Panpiper]

Recruit local, non magical leaders in the underwater provinces. Give them a little bit of local chaff for support. Equip each of those leaders with Rod of the Phoenix, Spirit Helmet, Boots of Quickness, and whatever else you feel useful to keep the hero alive and functioning. Give them the battle orders; 'Cast Spells'. You won't need many to provide a very effective deterrent against invasion.

[thejeff]

50 gems worth of gear on chaff leaders? I hope you won't need very many.

If you're worried about actual invasion, meet them with armies of your own. With mages & real thugs.

If you're worried about raiders & indy events, have a couple teleporting thugs ready to take them back.

Sure, hire local commander and a handful of troops to patrol since you don't have PD, but there's no need to go overboard.

[JimMorrison]

All I am saying is that the logistics of invasion are vastly different if you cannot do PD at all.

You can perform other, specialized forms of deterrence, but with their high cost, and inability to ever move more than 1 province/turn, they can't provide the same effectiveness as small amounts of PD, as far as forcing someone to commit larger forces to avoid attrition, or to at least commit something of value that they will fear losing.

[JaghataiKhan]

I want Fomoria to get underwater recruitables! Undead ones, and creepy fairy sea-monsters, like kelpies, morags, merrows, cecaelias, lavellans, and dobhar-chu.

DO WANT! DO WANT!

[HoneyBadger]

More PD-enhancing units, like the Watcher that we already have, wouldn't necessarily go amiss.

[NTJedi]

All I am saying is that the logistics of invasion are vastly different if you cannot do PD at all.


I know you can give any nation PD before a game starts using the map editor. I wonder what would happen if you give a land nation a starting water province with PD... maybe nothing, but who knows.