Smoke vs buildings

[redcoat2]

Can you use smoke munitions to set fire to buildings in the game?

[BadCompany]

nope.Try using a flamethrower.

[redcoat2]

Damn. My cunning plan to smoke out the Chechens has been foiled. :D

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Using flame rockets Can prove to be effective

[Griefbringer]

Yep, in the game the smoke ammo cannot start fires. In real life it sometimes can, though: when I was in military on one exercise a smoke canister chucked by one officer started a small fire in a dry forest - luckily some guys in my squad quickly spotted it and managed to extinguish it.

However, most HE rounds of any significant size can start fires: mortar and artillery shells, tank main gun rounds, RPG/bazooka/recoilless rifle rounds, satchel charges and so on.

Also, don't really expect the fire to drive away any dug in enemy - though it can cause pinning.

Griefbringer

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Yep, in the game the smoke ammo cannot start fires. In real life it sometimes can, though: when I was in military on one exercise a smoke canister chucked by one officer started a small fire in a dry forest - luckily some guys in my squad quickly spotted it and managed to extinguish it.

However, most HE rounds of any significant size can start fires: mortar and artillery shells, tank main gun rounds, RPG/bazooka/recoilless rifle rounds, satchel charges and so on.

Also, don't really expect the fire to drive away any dug in enemy - though it can cause pinning.

Griefbringer
i use fire to drive away enemies, i set their hexes on fire and they'll be at least pinned, a not dug-in/moving unit can rout, also fire blocks vision and can block TI (still need to know how many hexes are needed for TI blocking)

[Listy]

Damn. My cunning plan to smoke out the Chechens has been foiled. :D

Why not just smoke the building their in, move up and beat the snot out of them? Ti scouts if you've got it, TI tanks if not.

Or take up positions and wait for your smoke to clear.

[redcoat2]

Thanks for your replies.

I asked the question because I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the Russians used smoke shells (which are incendiary by nature) to set fire to buildings during the Chechnya War, especially during the Battle of Groznyy - which I played as a random battle the other day.

As it was, I was able to suppress the Chechens with ‘shmel’/artillery/rocket fire (and tank fire from a safe distance) and then attack their buildings with infantry protected by smoke screens.

P.S. I can’t remember where I read about the smoke shells being used as incendiaries and so I’m not sure whether it was true or not.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

now i see, skirmisher's right, the ten year old code limits what can be done

[Listy]

Thanks for your replies.

I asked the question because I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the Russians used smoke shells (which are incendiary by nature) to set fire to buildings during the Chechnya War, especially during the Battle of Groznyy - which I played as a random battle the other day.

Sure they're not talking about WP? Reporters are rather notorious for giving out the wrong details ;)

[Marek_Tucan]

AFAIK lots of smoke shells actually contain small quantities of WP so it might be same same :)

[redcoat2]

I asked the question because I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the Russians used smoke shells (which are incendiary by nature) to set fire to buildings during the Chechnya War, especially during the Battle of Groznyy - which I played as a random battle the other day.

Sure they're not talking about WP? Reporters are rather notorious for giving out the wrong details ;)

I can’t remember how reliable my source was - as I said. It could have been a news reporter (i.e. unreliable) or it may have been a defence journal or Russian eyewitness account. The Russians certainly used WP in Groznyy. And, as Marek has pointed out, their smoke shells probably contained white phosphorus as well.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

I asked the question because I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the Russians used smoke shells (which are incendiary by nature) to set fire to buildings during the Chechnya War, especially during the Battle of Groznyy - which I played as a random battle the other day.

Sure they're not talking about WP? Reporters are rather notorious for giving out the wrong details ;)

I can’t remember how reliable my source was - as I said. It could have been a news reporter (i.e. unreliable) or it may have been a defence journal or Russian eyewitness account. The Russians certainly used WP in Groznyy. And, as Marek has pointed out, their smoke shells probably contained white phosphorus as well.
WP nades would be great in game, i'll try to make one, i guess that infantry flame is the class

[thatguy96]

Sure they're not talking about WP? Reporters are rather notorious for giving out the wrong details ;)

I can’t remember how reliable my source was - as I said. It could have been a news reporter (i.e. unreliable) or it may have been a defence journal or Russian eyewitness account. The Russians certainly used WP in Groznyy. And, as Marek has pointed out, their smoke shells probably contained white phosphorus as well.
WP nades would be great in game, i'll try to make one, i guess that infantry flame is the class
You could probably achieve the desired effect by just changing the class of the basic grenade to "Infantry Flame."

Also of note, the napalm class for aircraft isn't ruled by the 1 hex to the rear distance restriction that bombs and cluster munitions are (ie, if you make a bomb or cluster bomb using either of the relevant classes it will always drop behind the aircraft). What this means is that you can set napalm weapons to range +1 and actually get incendiary rockets, etc, with the napalm effects.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

I can’t remember how reliable my source was - as I said. It could have been a news reporter (i.e. unreliable) or it may have been a defence journal or Russian eyewitness account. The Russians certainly used WP in Groznyy. And, as Marek has pointed out, their smoke shells probably contained white phosphorus as well.
WP nades would be great in game, i'll try to make one, i guess that infantry flame is the class
You could probably achieve the desired effect by just changing the class of the basic grenade to "Infantry Flame."

Also of note, the napalm class for aircraft isn't ruled by the 1 hex to the rear distance restriction that bombs and cluster munitions are (ie, if you make a bomb or cluster bomb using either of the relevant classes it will always drop behind the aircraft). What this means is that you can set napalm weapons to range +1 and actually get incendiary rockets, etc, with the napalm effects.
Yeah, i play around the OOBs all the time i have a new idea

[PanzerBob]

Yeah, i play around the OOBs all the time i have a new idea

Let us know how that works out. FYI I believe there are several "flame" genades:mean: in winSPWWII, Germany comes to mind, but I haven't the game here to check.

This may interest you-Einstossflammenwerfer 46

http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust11.htm#einstoss

Bob out http://www.militaryimages.net/forums/images/smilies/10_5_133.gif

[Griefbringer]

There are also "fire bombs" in SP:MBT - check for example the Demolition Teams for the country red. And amongst Insurgent Bands in the same OOB you can find Molotov Cocktails.

Griefbringer

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

There are also "fire bombs" in SP:MBT - check for example the Demolition Teams for the country red. And amongst Insurgent Bands in the same OOB you can find Molotov Cocktails.

Griefbringer
There are fire bombs, gasoline bombs, whatever bombs, tb grenades, He/flame rockets, i'll just play around a bit

[PanzerBob]

Don't get burned!!!:haha::haha::grenade:

Bob out :D

[Djuice]

Isnt there a bug with infantry flame causing 999 PEN against vehicles?

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Isnt there a bug with infantry flame causing 999 PEN against vehicles?
999 pen shows that weapon is flame (tb grenades, FT's..)
just made a WP grenade, causes BIG fires, but usually not so deadly, good for urban areas

[Marek_Tucan]

That's not a bug, that's a special code for "not ordinary penetration".

[Djuice]

But wouldnt that make Flame weapons much more effective against armoured vehicles then say weapons that use HEAT in the game?

Since the RPO-A Shmel can take out even the best MBTs in the game with a single shot. Then you wouldn't even consider using standard AT weapons, since the Shmel can be used on a variety of targets. It also provides anti-TI screen.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

But wouldnt that make Flame weapons much more effective against armoured vehicles then say weapons that use HEAT in the game?

Since the RPO-A Shmel can take out even the best MBTs in the game with a single shot. Then you wouldn't even consider using standard AT weapons, since the Shmel can be used on a variety of targets. It also provides anti-TI screen.
Not really, flame weapons aren't sooo effective,or else the armies using ATGM would be saying ooga booga, ALSO, it is a waste of ammo to use a RPO-A Shmel against a HMMWV or similar vehicles

[Djuice]

I was referring to WinSPMBT, firing a Shmel @ a soft skin vehicle (truck) results in a devastating amount of casulties. I've been using it more then RPG type weapons in the game, since if alot more effective.

[redcoat2]

The ‘Russia’s Arms’ (Оружие �*оссии) directory of Russian weaponry seems to say that the RPO-A thermobaric warhead is “intended” for use against infantry in buildings, fortifications and vehicles (soft skinned or lightly armoured).

There are two other types of rounds for the Shmel. The RPO-D, which is a red phosphorous smoke round and the RPO-Z, which is an incendiary round that can be used against buildings, soft skin vehicles and terrain covered by inflammable vegetation.

‘Russia’s Arms’ also says that in terms of blast, blinding (smoke) and incendiary effect these rounds are equivalent to 122mm artillery projectiles of a similar designation.

[redcoat2]

P.S. The RPO-M, also known as the RPO PDM-A ‘Shmel-M’, is an improved version of the RPO-A. The blast effect of the RPO-M thermobaric warhead is said to be comparable with that of a 155mm / 6" HE artillery shell.

[Listy]

Just as a point of note:
In the older games RPO's where lethal against tanks. In one game I nailed about 30 Leopard 2's with them. They've been downgraded at some point recently. Despite encountering a great many RPO rounds with my tanks they've not been killed (Bailed and routed yes, but not dead).

Now if you want a Weapon to be scared of, have a look at the US 40mm TB grenade launcher, that offs MBT's alarmingly well. In one game recently I was using some Cougar MRV's with engineers as route proving for my main attack. They got ambushed in a city by a platoon of chieftains. So they dismounted and cleared out the tanks with those grenades.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

I was referring to WinSPMBT, firing a Shmel @ a soft skin vehicle (truck) results in a devastating amount of casulties. I've been using it more then RPG type weapons in the game, since if alot more effective.
Still, those are far more expensive, i use AT4/LAW/Bazooka/Panzerfaust/RPG for attacking light/unarmored vehicles

[Griefbringer]

Back to the original topic, I saw today an article in a newspaper about a military fire brigade of a certain garrison here in Finland: this year they have had to extinguish several small forest fires started by the phosphorous in smoke shells.

Griefbringer

[redcoat2]

Back to the original topic, I saw today an article in a newspaper about a military fire brigade of a certain garrison here in Finland: this year they have had to extinguish several small forest fires started by the phosphorous in smoke shells.

Griefbringer

I guess those wonderful forests of yours can be highly inflammable. :campfire:

The wooden buildings (and brick/concrete buildings opened up by HE) in Chechnya were probably vulnerable to all forms of incendiaries.

I still can't remember where I read about the smoke shells. It was a long time ago - and it stuck in my mind at the time.

[Griefbringer]

I guess those wonderful forests of yours can be highly inflammable. :campfire:


Yep, during any sort of warm and dry period in summer time there is a danger of forest fires. However, it is nothing compared to the troubles they have in the Mediterranean or in California.

Also in April-May the dry tall grass can catch a fire, on those areas where it can be found. Again, this is a hazard that exists in a lot of areas around the world, whenever the grass is dry and the conditions are sufficient.

Not sure if there is a terrain type in the game to present inflammable tall dry grass - I cannot recall having seen one.

Griefbringer

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Is any terrain in the game inflammable?(even water?)

[Djuice]

I'm pretty sure that every terrain in the game is flammable, yes even water.

[Griefbringer]

Inflammable = something that catches fire easily.

About any terrain piece in the game can be set alight with flame weapons. However, other weapons usually seem to cause fires only in specific terrain types (eg. forest, buildings).

Griefbringer