Doedicurus - Introductory CBM (PBEM, Llamaserver) - Upload Pretenders :)

[Gregstrom]

I recently joined a CBM game, thinking 'well, how different can it be?' I found out, and didn't last 20 turns. Not all of that was due to it being CBM (I made various strategic errors all of my very own), but not knowing the mod certainly cost me some opportunities.

And so I thought I'd start up a game for anyone who, like me, is interested in learning the CBM game.

Age: MA
Mods: CBM 1.3 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39679)
Number of players: 23
Map: Faerun 466 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40776) has been suggested.
Other Settings: Default

I'll cheerfully listen to ideas about maps/mods/game settings/whatever people would like to see.

And, in an attempt to redeem my appalling record with them, I'll be playing Ashdod. I hope one day to survive the early game with them.

Players:

Gregstrom - Ashdod
Ylvali - Ermor
Ossa - Ulm
Crust - Machaka
Janlm - R'lyeh
Meglobob - C'tis
gotchaaa - Pythium
Quitti - Abysia
Hadrian_II - Pangaea
Kojusoki - Marignon
Radiogibbon - Vanheim
Saarud - T'ien Ch'i
Nikelaos - Oceania
Rabelais - Man
Jybalbyle - Arcoscephale
Psykmoe - Agartha
Deadnature - Bandar Log
Slayers_ai - Jotunheim
Shikome - Eriu
Juffos - Caelum
Konming - Mictlan
Radioheart - Atlantis

[Omnirizon]

I don't think I should sign up, but I just wanted to posit that with CBM, production dependent nations get a huge buff and are worth considering and playing with max prod max turmoil max luck.

In general, production dependent nations (without some superpowered troops like the giant nations) are rarely on the same power level as nations that don't need to depend on this scale. read through the nations evaluations thread, the OP of the preponderance game thread, or just look around at nation strength opinions in general and you will notice that all of the nations believed to be particularly powerful tend to sport at least one high-powered/low resource unit, or at least very high cost to resource ratio units. Mictlan, Vanhiem, Lanka, Pythium, Nief, ect. There are of course many other such nations that are not considered powerful, but the point is that for any nation to really be considered effective they need to be able to produce lots of good troops. Those nations that are too dependent on production for their good units can't produce them fast enough, and are really forced to build forts in very specific areas where they can get more resources. They also must divert points into the production (generally considered an overall weak scale) rather than order (generally considered on of the most important scales) or another scale (like magic). Overall, the production dependency just puts a burden on these nations that the typically high-powered nations do not need to deal with.

CBM fixes this by making production intensive units a little cheaper in gold cost, and by making the luck scale more intense. Taking a production scale is more efficient, allowing a nation to swing with a turmoil luck scale. But the luck scale is more intense, meaning you will get more good events. The higher efficiency of the high resource units (being lower in gold cost, and typically being more robust due to higher prot) allows the nation to run fine with limited funds. But the luck scale will kick in intermittently and you will get nice gold boosts that allow you to build things like forts and such pretty painlessly. Additionally, you will get some bonus gems from the luck scale. On the flip side for the Order lovers, they will have to deal with a more intense misfortune scale, typically a favorite point mine for Order nations. With the intensified effects of this scale, even max Order is really getting risky with Misfortune of 2; this helps deprive these nation of at least one basically free positive scale pick.

At least, that's my analysis of one of the biggest changes in CBM. In my testing, the nations that have some high resource units as their elite units are really a lot better now.

[Ylvali]

I´m in. Haven´t played CBM much (actually haven´t played tha game itself that much either) And I´d like to play MA ermor.

[Ossa]

I'd like to join with MA Ulm

[Crust]

I could join as Machaka.

[Janlm]

i'll sign up as rlyeh

[Meglobob]

I have only played 2 CBM games, eliminated early, around turn 20 in one and never had the chance to do much in the other, overwhealming Hinnom win.

So, I would like Ma Ctis.

[gotchaaa]

can I plz take pythium?

[Gregstrom]

Of course :)

[Starshine_Monarch]

Give me Atlantis. Can't have Rlyeh hogging up the water wihout any competition.

[Toran]

I would love to try MA Abysia, thanks!

[Hadrian_II]

Pangaea please

[Kojusoki]

Marignon please

[RadioGibbon]

I'll take Vanheim if your still recruiting.

Cheers.

[Saarud]

I'd likr to join as T'ien Sh'i!

[Nikelaos]

oceania please.

[Jybalbyle]

Still recruiting...?

Helheim if possible.

Jybalbyle

[Gregstrom]

Nikelaos: Done.

Jybalbyle: Sorry, Helheim is EA and this is an MA game. I'm still recruiting though.

People in general: My thoughts on scheduling are that the first turns should probably be okay with a 1-day quickhost but because of the differences in CBM it would be a good idea to go to a 2 day hosting on turn 15 or so. That way there's time to look more carefully at those important early research and casting orders. Thoughts?

[Meglobob]

Sounds good to me.:)

Any thoughts on maps?

Well I am happy to play on any map, how about Edi's new adventure, Faerun 466 (no. of provinces) adventure. Its basically Forgotton Realms, has set starts, so we are all guarenteed 5 adjacent provinces and has, 'special' provinces which are defended by extremely strong forces, they do have powerful sites however.

It should add more spice but like I said any map is good.

[Nikelaos]

i think to be fair a few games go to 48 hours hosting from the mid game onwards anyway, so from turn 15 or so sounds about right, possibly a little further down the line though, turn 15 is still kinda early.

[Gregstrom]

466 is pretty darn big for 14 players. However, Faerun is a pretty nice map and has some neat features including the nice VP's and so on.

If we can get 20-odd players for the game, then I'd definitely go for it.

[rabelais]

Man please... probably hasn't changed that much.


thanks,

Rabe

[Jybalbyle]

Duh.... I'd like to withdraw that request for Helheim and I would like to try Arcoscephale instead... Please.

[Nikelaos]

actually can i withdraw oceania and have mictlan instead please.

[Gregstrom]

Sure thing. Oceania, anyone?

[Nikelaos]

oceania are great i just wanted to try something more interesting,

with oceania though it usually gets results for me it is all to easy to just spam itchycentaurs, feild gift of health without much trouble, use voice of tiamat to rack up massive gem income then spam naiad warriors (awe +3 :D)

Mictlan should be more interesting, especially with the lack of immediate blood access.

[Gregstrom]

Cool - I guess that means Pan get the GoH instead then :D

[Toran]

Bah, all that talk about water... I mean, what's so great about it anyway? At standard room temperature (Abysian scales) it's cooking already, thus difficult to contain.

A mermaid might be nice for the eye, but the Abysian virgins are really hot, you know (at least before the sacrificing)..... tsts, water lovers... now, when's the game gonna start? :p

[Psykmoe]

Well if you don't mind a total newbie I'd like to give Agartha a try. In any case I'm interested in the CBM ;)

[Deadnature]

Bandar Log please, I always wanted to try them

[slayers_ai]

Can I have Bandar Log? thank you ^_^

[slayers_ai]

Bandar Log please, I always wanted to try them

upps...dont know it's taken...
then can I change to Jotunheim? thanks:D

[Nikelaos]

Cool - I guess that means Pan get the GoH instead then :D

nope, mictlan has some pretty decent nature magic of it's own, so i wouldn't bet on pangea for GOH.

[Gregstrom]

Wow - 19 players!

Okay, if we can get 1 more then Faerun looks like a possibility.

Not that more wouldn't be better, of course :)

I guess I'll give it a couple of days to see if more people want to join, then start.

[Shikome]

If you don't mind that its my first MP game, I'm in as Eriu (think they're still free, yeah?)

[Gregstrom]

Well, while I wouldn't recommend CBM for someone's first MP game, I guess it's your funeral. If you've read Baalz' guide to Eriu (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37996) then you'll have an idea where to start.

[Shikome]

Yeah I fully expect to get slaughtered, but I have a tendency to learn better from jumping in the deep end rather than taking things slow and simple so that's not a problem in my opinion.

I do have some experience with CBM in SP so I'm not completely inexperienced with it, though i doubt the SP experience will count for much really.

And yeah i read that guide, very handy, as all Baalz guides are.

[rabelais]

I would like to argue for difficult or very difficult research so that end game hopeless nations (like man) have longer to flail around aggressively before being crushed by high level astral and death summons.

Since we are attempting to learn CBM, a slightly slower game doesn't seem out of place.


Other than that I have no opinions on settings.

[DonCorazon]

Shinuyama please.

[Gregstrom]

Hum. Big game, tough research... could work.

And we're at 21 players! Woo. Welcome on board DC :) I'll start looking at the game setup. If both water nations start in the western sea area of the Faerun, they shouldn't have too much room to grow unchallenged.

Barring objections/better ideas, we'll look at playing on Faerun 466.

Rabelais has suggested difficult/very difficult research - what do people think?

[Juffos]

I would like to join as Caelum.

[Toran]

Well, with the number of 21+ players, map that big and (potentially) longer research times, this is probably going to be a lil' bit more to me than just an "introductory" CBM game and a bit too large for my part - so better count me out and leave Abysia available to others again.

I was just more focussed on the "introductory" character and not aware it would turn out that large. Sorry, but 20+ is still a strong number ;)

[Quitti]

I'll take abysia then :)

[Edi]

Just one word of warning: The Faerun 466 map does NOT have set starts. This is due to the fact that there are so damn many nations in the game that I would need to do different versions for each era and it would still be extremely difficult to manage in any sort of balanced fashion. So with that many players, you may end up starting fairly close to someone. If you play with VPs on, set the number of required VPs to somewhere around 35 - 45. There's 100 of them on the map, so several different regional wars will eventually determine who ascends.

[Gregstrom]

Well, with the number of 21+ players, map that big and (potentially) longer research times, this is probably going to be a lil' bit more to me than just an "introductory" CBM game and a bit too large for my part - so better count me out and leave Abysia available to others again.

I was just more focussed on the "introductory" character and not aware it would turn out that large. Sorry, but 20+ is still a strong number ;)

Well, I'm sorry to see you leave, Toran. The interest in the game surprised me too, but I don't think it'll get in the way of learning CBM too much.

However, with the player count at 22 I think I will now close down on signups.

[Nikelaos]

okay then.

[Gregstrom]

I've looked at game setup on Llamaserver and I'm happy with how the interface works. Before I start the game up, though, I want to be sure of the settings we'll be using.

I suggest a VP vctory. Looking at Edi's advice, if I let each capital be 1VP in addition to the 100 on the map, then a 45 VP victory might be about right.

I have sympathy for the idea of difficult research as it's quite a large game on a large map. However, there's only been one voice asking for it so far - I'd need to see more people supporting difficult research before I impose it.

Basically, speak now and you will be heard.

NAP-wise, this will not be a Machiavellian game. Picking up on CBM is enough to be thinking about, without the distraction of mistrusting all your neighbours and trade partners.

The Faerun map is here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40776) - the same link is in the top post.

CBM is here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39679) - link also in the top post.

[Gregstrom]

Further startup info:

If you haven't played on Llamaserver before, the Llamaserver FAQ (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160) will explain what you need to do. Don't try submitting pretenders before the game has been set up - they'll be rejected.

If you haven't done the mod game thing before, remember to enable CBM 1.3 Complete before creating your pretender.

[Nikelaos]

you know what?

i have the urge to get an acient kraken pretender and simply name it "Giant Killer Octopus"

yes it's quite sad and i'm a pain but i really don't care i'm changing back to oceania.

after all it's more than 60 provinces of sea for atlantis and R'lyeh to share and don't tell me they won't try it on with some land provinces between em, well it looks like a job for pangeas fishy cousins, original lords of the deep till the atlantians came out of the abyss and then offcourse that damn star fell out of the sky, i mean typical - just our luck. Well we shall prevail.

[Gregstrom]

Ah. Actually, the map file is currently set up so Atlantis and R'lyeh are sharing the main sea area of ~40 provinces, which is about right (the inland sea was all on #nostart).

Still, in this case what is done can be undone without major effort. I'll update the top post.

Do you have any opinions on research settings?

[Nikelaos]

difficult sounds pretty fair for me.

And Mr Giant Killer Octopus thinks it's a good idea too.

(holy giant killer octopus i'm sad)

[Psykmoe]

I guess I wouldn't mind difficult research even if it'll take longer for me to get up my golems, heh.

[Meglobob]

Difficult research and VP victory sounds okay with me.

Have to re-think my pretender now, was going to have drain 2!

[konming]

22 players! It's a shame not to have the full house. :) If it is OK, I will join as the last player, Mictlan. :)

[Saarud]

I'm ok with the difficult research, the VPs and of course the map as well. I feel so agreeable right now! :)

[Gregstrom]

22 players! It's a shame not to have the full house. :) If it is OK, I will join as the last player, Mictlan. :)

Well, while technically the game's closed I guess Nikelaos has left enough room on dry land for one more. In you come :D

[Gregstrom]

Looking further at the chat, it seems like things are heading towards difficult research. I'll see if I can get things set up in a little over 12 hours time - make your opinions heard before then!

[Nikelaos]

Difficult research and victory points, the difficult research means the nations with weak late game will have more chance - and more time to get a head before everyone begins to reach full effectiveness.

VP sounds good, don't you just hate when a game drags on and you already know who'll win.

[Ylvali]

I vote for difficult research and graphs off.

[Shikome]

Difficult research sounds good to me (not biased by the fact Eriu has a rubbish endgame of course! :p ), VP is good as well, plus the map seems fun, will we be playing with the 'adventure' version or the plain one?

[Janlm]

i vote for super easy research... actually i'd prefer to have it all from turn 2 or 3.

[konming]

I like difficult research. And please no graph off. It only benefits strong players and sometimes cheaters go wild in games with no graph.

[slayers_ai]

I like difficult research. And please no graph off. It only benefits strong players and sometimes cheaters go wild in games with no graph.

I'd like to second this:D

[rabelais]

I think graphs off would be a terrible mistake, max info is good for a newb game this size.... If someone is kicking ***, remember to ask them how they did it later?

Are we doing standard magic site concentrations and gold/resources/supplies? I'll be using normal troops as far as the eye can see, so I'd love a gold/resource boost, but that's just naked self-interest. For that matter I have a lot of nature magic lets make supplies 50% or whatever the minimum is...:p

More seriously, I also tend to play with independents at 9... is that contraindicated in MP?

[Gregstrom]

Bother. I seem to have come across an unexpected problem. Llamaserver doesn't have Faerun available as a game map, and while you can upload .map files you can't upload .tgas.

I'll drop a pm in Llamabeast's direction, and if things go well we may be able to start uploading pretenders over the weekend.

I am planning on using the adventure version of the map, by the way.

Settings so far agreed on are:
Difficult Research
45 VP victory condition
Graphs On

[Edi]

Greg, I just uploaded a new version of the map files on my webspace. They incorporate all of the fixes we have talked about and there's a separate borders map file which makes it easier for you to redo marking the seas as nostart. While you're waiting for llamabeast to upload the map to the server, you might as well go ahead and get a better version of the map to play on.

[Nikelaos]

I think graphs off would be a terrible mistake, max info is good for a newb game this size.... If someone is kicking ***, remember to ask them how they did it later?

Are we doing standard magic site concentrations and gold/resources/supplies? I'll be using normal troops as far as the eye can see, so I'd love a gold/resource boost, but that's just naked self-interest. For that matter I have a lot of nature magic lets make supplies 50% or whatever the minimum is...:p

More seriously, I also tend to play with independents at 9... is that contraindicated in MP?

I find graphs on a pretty good idea, it makes people have to think and try not to expand to quickly or risk getting ganged up on.

gold/resources boost would affect everyone though a high resource lvl makes high resource nations pretty damn powerful because they only need a small bulk for it to cut down through any number of lighter armed troops, whilst gold tends to favour nations such as shinuyama who have troops such as the obakemonowho cost quite a bit in gold for a unit but have a tiny resource cost (aka 1), going to extremes will only disadvantage nations in the middle with middle resource and middle gold value troops rather than high resource/low gold or vice versa. so let's keep that standard.

taking low supplies tends to favour nature nations who can feed their troops just by having a mage there so that unbalances things too - better leave that standard.

independants at 9 is harsh for some nations, nations not strong early game will almost certainly lose because at the best of times they can't expand fast. Bogarus (LA - so not in this) is probably the best example, all their units are either chaff or overpriced or both but their mages are better than a vast majority of early age nations (in general early age = good magic but bad troops, late age is bad magic but good troops and middle age is somewhere in between), bogarus' mages mean they have a more competent mid game and a powerful late game but they would never reach that far with independants at 9 because they couldn't sustain enough early game expansion to survive.

with such a large amount of players there will be nations from all over the spectrum playing and independants at 9 will automaticly nigh-impossible for those late age nations to win.
Again i believe standard would be fairest.

[Edi]

Indies 9 is a bad idea if you intend to get the game off the ground quickly. The standard indies 5 is ridiculously low. I have always played my SP games on indies 7 and that's a level where you do need to put in some thought as to where you go and what you do and awake SCs need to be slightly more careful or they can end up hurt.

[konming]

Other than research difficult, HoF 15, and rename on, I think all else should be set to default. We have full 23 nations and we do not want radical settings to kill off some nations automatically.

As it is, rush nations have an advantage (many provinces, wide open land, and difficult research), we should not make them any easier by jacking up gold or indy strength.

[Nikelaos]

Other than research difficult, HoF 15, and rename on, I think all else should be set to default. We have full 23 nations and we do not want radical settings to kill off some nations automatically.

As it is, rush nations have an advantage (many provinces, wide open land, and difficult research), we should not make them any easier by jacking up gold or indy strength.


kudos you have brains,

also we want the independant strength relatively low anyway in such a big game so it doesn't take so long waiting for people to prepare that bit more in order to take provinces, and as you should know by now the higher the independant strength the bigger the advantage for those rush nations who already have a big advantage because mid game shall be coming late due to large map and difficult research.

[Nikelaos]

ecuse my double post but llamaserver does seem to be playing up (sure you noticed the thread about it) unless noone minds waiting till llamabeast fixes it it may be worth finding some alternative?

[Meglobob]

Llama will be back the 1st of Nov. and all will be well shortly thereafter, at least until he goes away again!

[Nikelaos]

fair enough

[DonCorazon]

Although this looks to be a fun game, given upcoming holidays and hard research, which I am not a fan of, especially as a non-rush nation, I am going to withdraw from this one.

[Janlm]

I don't know what has changed now that wasn't so for a few days ago, but whatever. I'm sure the llamaserver will be sorted out soon, i do hope everyone else is still interested in playing this game, despite the long wait.

[Jybalbyle]

I'm still in. I keep checking this board and the llamaserver. Happy to hold on (got Fallout to play anyway!).

[Ylvali]

Llamaserver is back! let´s get started.

[Psykmoe]

Well, I haven't seen this game show up on 'Games waiting for pretenders' so I haven't sent in yet >_> But of course i'm still up for playing.

[Gregstrom]

I'm still waiting on llamabeast adding the extra map to the server. I haven't wanted to be pushy yet, because he's been having enough trouble just getting another server set up.

I'll send another pm in a short while.

[slayers_ai]

I am still in (since the long waiting of the llamaserver, might want to re-check that all the registed palyers are still in?)

[Saarud]

Of course I'm still in. Llamaserver is online again and I have already made my Pretender, so now I'm just waiting for this game to show up on Llamaserver.

[Nikelaos]

I'm still in.

[Gregstrom]

I'll do a massed pm once llamaserver's wrinkles are ironed out (it still seems to be messing up on turn generation or something) and I have the game open.

[Meglobob]

Llamaserver seems ok now, so are we starting soon?

[Gregstrom]

Yup. Llamabeast is going to be uploading the map file to Llamaserver shortly (<12 hours if we're lucky), at which point I'll be putting the game up.

[Deadnature]

I'm still in too, in case anyone was wondering :)

[rabelais]

We are doing indies strength 7, correct? while practicing in SP I noticed that with indies 7+ you couldn't predict who would be the fastest expander in a full game, with indy strength 5 (default) it was always jotun and ashdod....

It seems to me that making everyone focus fire for the early game is more likely to lead to parity than letting the rushers take multiple provinces early, unless of course they have an awake SC, but then you have to pay for that.

Rabe (who really hates his longbows were accidentally not unnerfed)

[Gregstrom]

It's been suggested and not disagreed with, so I guess so.

The game is now available for pretender uploads - yay!

[Nikelaos]

All praise Ice Cube

after realising he will never quite be as good a rapper as jay-z or dr dre he now believes he has more chance of becoming god.

all praise ice cube, Lord of the ocean, Substitute Demigod of urban music.

his recording studio is now open for any who wishes to strike a pre-gig deal.

[slayers_ai]

It's been suggested and not disagreed with, so I guess so.

The game is now available for pretender uploads - yay!

maybe we can change the thread name to “pretender upload”, just let people know the status...:angel

[Shikome]

OK sent my pretender in

[rabelais]

With regard to the map... I found the listing on llamaserver, but the only thing I can download appears to be a 356k PNG... is that what I need or has it been so long since I played in an MP game, that I have completely lost even basic skills?


In other news... I still have like 8 pretender designs to choose from. If only I knew which scales were needed for the large (or small and permanent (+money events.) Anyone have hints on minimum order/productivity?

[Gregstrom]

The map link is in the OP, so go from there. For serious +money events, you need Luck 3 (and possibly Turmoil 3).

[Nikelaos]

With regard to the map... I found the listing on llamaserver, but the only thing I can download appears to be a 356k PNG... is that what I need or has it been so long since I played in an MP game, that I have completely lost even basic skills?


In other news... I still have like 8 pretender designs to choose from. If only I knew which scales were needed for the large (or small and permanent (+money events.) Anyone have hints on minimum order/productivity?

luck will give you the events but they will come in big burts rather than a fixed income, for cash order tends to be a good idea, growth is better than productivity for cash because it's the same income percentage boost but you're population is also growing which means more taxes over time.

try an imprisoned oracle, you can take order 3, growth 3 and luck 3 and still have points to spare, if you need extra points (unlikely with an imprisoned oracle with no bless)you could try drain - you're mages (you are man right?) slightly resist a drain dominion though i believe it still has some effect.

[slayers_ai]

14 players already~ not too far away~ :)

[Meglobob]

Hopefully we still have all 22 players but some may have deserted with the long delay.

So we might want to put a deadline for uploading pretenders and after that open the game up to players again until we have the full 22 players.

[Gregstrom]

We have only 2 known dropouts at this stage - all current no-shows have been PMed by me already.

I've also posted a new thread asking for volunteers (as you'll probably have seen).

[Kojusoki]

im in! when we start?

[rabelais]

are we in fact playing independent strength 7, llama does not appear to think so. If we arent let me know so I can take more sloth?

[Gregstrom]

We definitely are, yes. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Deadnature]

also, what version of Faerun are we playing? "No specials" I presume?

[Kojusoki]

to be honest i would prefer adventure one

[Deadnature]

well, I could go either way. I just want to know which one we'll be using so I can run an SP game for practice.

[Gregstrom]

It's the adventure map, as posted somewhere above IIRC.

[Ossa]

sorry - was without Inet for one week but now I sent my pretender

[Gregstrom]

Excellent.

We're only two short of where we should be, by my calculations.

[Gregstrom]

Those two are Saarud, and Radioheart who has kindly agreed to replace Starshine_Monarch as Atlantis. A big welcome to Radioheart!

[Radioheart]

Hurrah!

Pretender is GO!

[rabelais]

what is the status here? do we know whether the missing player is still committed?

[Gregstrom]

No response as yet. I guess if we get a volunteer, they'll probably get the spot instead.

Otherwise, I can always force the game to start with one player less than expected.

[Kojusoki]

I suggest we start

[Nikelaos]

i would say wait till tommorrow if we are still in the same predicament then start.

[Deadnature]

I say we start already, the difference between 21 and 22 players is negligible.

[Gregstrom]

Well, except for Saarud of course. The difference to him would be noticeable.

As he's had ample chance to notice the game was starting, I guess I'll have to work on the assumption that he's forgotten the game (and then missed a pm from me) or dropped out without mentioning it. I'll give him maybe 5 hours, just in case.

[konming]

Sorry guys, real life crunch came and I have to withdraw from all games I am in. Since this game has not started yet, please either delete mictlan pretender file or find replacement. Sorry about the trouble I caused.

[rabelais]

received two turn 1's from llamaserver, does it matter which one I play?

[Nikelaos]

2?

weird i only got 1?

[Shikome]

Heh and I didn't get any turn at all (till I asked it to resend, all's fine now, just sent it in)

was one of the turns you received Eriu's by any chance? :p

[Gregstrom]

konming: We'll either find a sub or get you AI'd - I should be able to sort at least one of those out.

rabelais: use the most recent, I guess.

[Nikelaos]

oh btw anyone interested in a trade relationship or anything with oceania, we promise lots of gems, especially since we can't use em all.

[Janlm]

Rlyeh will be happy to take all the gems you don't want...

[nozshand]

i'd like to filling in the spot as mictlan if you guys still need one

let me know and i will be sending my pretedner asap.

[Nikelaos]

Rlyeh will be happy to take all the gems you don't want...

to put it bluntly, how about no, we aim on killing you off sooner rather than later and have already made arrangements with atlantis (our illegitamate half brothers of the sea) to destroy you.

prepare people to see the oceans turn yellow with the vile urine like blood of the illithids.

And in proper racist fasion

GET OUT OF OUR SEAS YOU FAT, SMELLY PEOPLE COULORED LIKE A SALMON'S REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS!!!!!

[Janlm]

hmm yes... It will be a pleasure to add your people to our collection of enslaved races...

[Janlm]

and nozshand, we have already started, so there won't be any sending in of pretender files.

[Meglobob]

It would be a good idea to put Ma Mictlan AI.

Better a inept AI flailing around than the nation doing nothing.

Did the caelum player blindly attack 2 provinces?!? Brave and well done!

Mean while in the land of the lizards, everyone was sat on there eggs thinking someone else had given troop recruitment orders, hence scrambled orders...doh!

Oh well, enjoy the head start guys...

[Agema]

I'm going to be fielding Mictlan from now on. It's a pleasure to be taking over one of Dominions 3's top blood nations during their brief period of non-sacrificial niceness.

[Shikome]

Eriu commander 1: Hey looks like there's only woodsmen and dark vines over there lets squish em!

Eriu commander 2: Err what exactly is a 'dark vine' that sounds dangerous....

Eriu commander 1: Pfft! its just a plant, you're not afraid of a plants are you?

<10 rounds later>

Eriu commander 1: AAAAARRGH!!

[Nikelaos]

weird according llamaserver it is taking in files for turn 4 but i haven't been emailed my turn?

[llamabeast]

You should request a turn resend then.

[Gregstrom]

I've extended the hosting interval as a support for rabelais in his current situation. We're still on quickhost though.

[Agema]

Well, it's not been a happy time for Mictlan. First two turns staled before I took over, so much catch-up. Anyway, After the delayed start, my plucky iron-ignorant savages had conquered a decent chunk of territory and had two fortresses mid-build.

This turn, two random events. 50+ Barbarians pillaged the province one fortress was being built on, and defeated the PD by the narrowest of margins. In the second province I was mid-build, I got a random attack of knights who utterly trounced the PD.

So, 2000 invested gold destroyed and my development set back about another 4-5 turns on top of the 2 already lost.

This is why I really hate Misfortune scales. Curse you, Fate!

[slayers_ai]

that's why if i am using Misfortune scales, i always put at least 25 pd on the province that a fortress was being built on:D

Well, it's not been a happy time for Mictlan. First two turns staled before I took over, so much catch-up. Anyway, After the delayed start, my plucky iron-ignorant savages had conquered a decent chunk of territory and had two fortresses mid-build.

This turn, two random events. 50+ Barbarians pillaged the province one fortress was being built on, and defeated the PD by the narrowest of margins. In the second province I was mid-build, I got a random attack of knights who utterly trounced the PD.

So, 2000 invested gold destroyed and my development set back about another 4-5 turns on top of the 2 already lost.

This is why I really hate Misfortune scales. Curse you, Fate!

[Agema]

Heh. That's one I've learnt as well now - I've barely ever used misfortune before :D

Admittedly, even 25PD would probably have only stopped the knights because the H3 that was there at the time might have been able to smite enough of them down - I think they suffered no damage at all except from him.

[RadioGibbon]

Machaka has staled 14 turns out of 19 (Including his last six). Might speed things up to set him to AI?

[Gregstrom]

Yes, it would. I'll need to find a volunteer.

[Meglobob]

No need, Machaka died last turn, someone got a easy kill!

[rabelais]

judging from the gem and castle differential, it *MIGHT* have been ashdod.


Morrigu the Witch

[Gregstrom]

Sorry, 'fraid not. I'm nowhere near them... I think.

[Gregstrom]

Also: I've slapped a delay on the next turn to give Nikelaos a chance to sort out his computer situation.

[Ossa]

Can I get a delay until 4th of Jan? I'm on vacation;)

[Gregstrom]

Sure thing. Postponement going in... now.

[Agema]

I'm moving house in a week or so. I will almost certainly not have home internet access for a while, hopefully just a week or so, but if the telecoms company cocks up like last time it may be up to a month.

I'll have to get the turns at work, transfer them by flash drive, and transfer them back to work to email. I'll need 48h turnaround at least until the home internet is up, with extensions possible and near-certain at the weekend.

Apologies in advance, I'll do my best to cause minimum disruption.

[Janlm]

hey everyone

I think we have lost oceania, he has stalled 6 times in a row now. Perhaps its possible to set him to ai?

Ermor has stalled two times in a row as well, btw.

[Gregstrom]

I'd need a volunteer to set Oceania to AI. Or just a sub - he's in a pretty safe position currently, and will have an awful lod of gold and gems piled up. I'll set turns to 48h, and advertise.

[Deadnature]

Bandar Log is interested in trading air, water and especially earth gems in exchange for nature gems.

Also, I'll pay handsomely for any earth-boosters.

[Agema]

Can I request a 24h delay to Saturday, please?

[Gregstrom]

Sure thing.

[Deadnature]

While we wait we should really consider setting Oceania and Ermor to AI, they've both staled for the past five turns or more.

[Deadnature]

bump, Bandar Log now is seeking Astral gems as well as nature gems---will trade earth gems for either.

Also, can we please set Ermor and Oceania to AI? Both for balance and to speed the game up...

thanks

[Gregstrom]

Oceania and Ermor are both AI as from next turn. I'm not sure it'll slow their conquest down by very much.

[Quitti]

The Warlocks of Abysia bring grave news. This day we were struck unannounced by our neighbors, the Man, who we had a NAP3 with. They have not announced their wish to cancel it, and hence they should be considered untrustworthy by anyone. We urge you to strike them now, while their forces are concentrated on their western borders. If you think you can ignore this problem - see the score graphs. They are there, on the top, just growing and growing.

Also, beware their lapdogs, the Arcoscephale, who DID announce a war with us, and have honored their contract of non-aggression pact with us. Still, they are working with Man and should be either totally decimated or at least castrated of their power.

[rabelais]

What?? We had no nap3... my first communication with you was to find out whether you were at war with marignon.... I have one with the rest of my neighbors, but I've been nervous all game since there was nothing but dread silence from abysia. Usually people were falling over one another to offer them when we met, but... not abysia.

If you have a recollection to the contrary, pm me, because I very conspicuously do not. Arco can confirm this has been my situation all along.


(edit) I did have a NAP with Ctis, it was canceled some turns ago)


Rabe

[Gregstrom]

Well, after dealing Marignon and the Jotuns a fair deal of hurt, the forces of Ashdod are effectively done for.

Thanks for the good game, and enjoy the rest of it. I'm setting to AI, as I've nothing left.

[Janlm]

thank you for remembering to go ai :)

[Jybalbyle]

Ahem,

Although we are grateful for the Warlocks of Abysia in praising the honourable conduct of our nation, the term 'lapdog' cuts a little...

Arcoscephale and Man have had a long and bountiful relationship so far, so we stalwartly stand by them. I do recollect some of our earlier messages of concern about Abysian expansionism and there was never any mention of non-aggression pacts at the time...

But then, what do you expect a lapdog to say about his master... ;)

Perhaps a gift of the mighty Gellithox's divine manure will pave a way to a new peace between our nations. He could fly over your capital and fertilize it from above...

[Deadnature]

Don't trust the hated people of Man!

The Monkey-People, in our desperate time of need, facing two large invasions from powerful enemies, paid Man handsomely to "attack C'tis."

The price was devastating: 2500 gold, and 50 gems(!!) The White Ones had to melt down and mint all of their prized golden bananas. A scam-lottery was held among the Markatas, and many other means were pursued to raise the funds...anything to save the Monkey-Kingdom.

And what did the "noble" kingdom of Man do? They canceled their NAP3 with C'tis, and then tried to extort money from them. NO ATTACK WAS EVER MADE.

Our White One-Diplomats were very clear, "attack" was the verb used in our negotiations. "Attack" was the word used by Man in response. Not, "cancel your NAP and do nothing." Don't trust Man....

- The Monkey People

[rabelais]

its true, I dropped the ball on that. ctis kept talking me out of it and then you made peace. Even though you just canceled your NAP w/ me, I will refund your money, let me know your gem preferences and I will send those along too.


Morrigu the Mediocre Merc

[Deadnature]

Wow, I commend you on your noble reaction: any combo of gems is fine...and it goes without saying that I take back what I said about not trusting you.

thanks,
Deadnature, Bandar Log

[Gregstrom]

Turn generation has been postponed at the request of Juffos, who is unavailable for the weekend.

By the way, did the last frenzied flailings of Ashdod do any harm to anyone? Going AI means you don't see the results of your final orders.

[rabelais]

going ai takes precendence over your orders, so they were rewritten by the AI.


what happened to ashdod? you were winning on every graph not long ago.... was there a conspiracy of dunceling princeings? its far away from my neighborhood, but I'm curious, if you are willing to tell the tale.

[Meglobob]

Why has the turn hosting been postponed a full week, till the 21st Feb.? Especially when Jeffos who requested an extension has already done his turn.

Perhaps postpone till Monday 16th Feb and switch to 72 hr hosting from now on? I think a few players are struggling to do there turns in 48 hrs.

[Gregstrom]

As the game's still on quickhost, if everybody gets their turn in then another will be generated.

I'm happy to reset the game to 72 hour hosting once Juffos returns.

Ashdod suffered the unfortunate fate of being attacked simultaneously by the forces of Marignon and Jotunheim.

Since I'd been putting money into research ather than armies, I couldn't resist both of them simultaneously - although I did kill quite a lot of jotuns and knights anyway. Massive spamming of Rain of Toads stopped me building enough troops to retake territory and hold it.

Atlantis also joined in on the assault once I was too distracted to threaten them, which pretty much finished me.

[Janlm]

We're still waiting for Mictlan, and it wasn't even him asking for the hosting delay...

[Janlm]

Are we going to keep having 1 week auto hosting?

[Agema]

Apologies for the delay. I saw the date moved to the 21st and took my eye off the ball.

[Meglobob]

Can we have 72 hrs hosting instead of 1 week hosting, please?

[Gregstrom]

It looks like Juffos is back, so I've set the hosting to the normal 72h again. Atlantis, BL and Mictlan have a grace period of just over 24 hours to submit their turns.

[rabelais]

any chance I can get a 48h extension? we have a broken pipe, and are moving to a hotel till it gets cleaned up... unlikely I will be able to get a turn in before late late Monday. alternatively I could set Man to AI, whatever the group prefers.

Apologies,

Rabe

[Gregstrom]

I've put in a 48h extension for you, Rabe.

[RadioGibbon]

Vanheim has switched to AI - those of you who have NAP's with me might wan't to be aware of that - although I doubt the few pathetic forces I have left will be able to hurt you.

[Gregstrom]

Well, thanks for playing then.

[Kojusoki]

Host problem - i didnt make any movement :( What we do with this? I lost pretty much this turn becouse of this and Man received a lot:)

[slayers_ai]

seems there's a problem for the host, will there be a rollback?:)

[Meglobob]

Lets have a rollback. Everyone staled due to computer error. Need to sort out who sent in the faulty turn file as well, otherwise it will happen again.

[Gregstrom]

I'll put in the rollback if required. I believe this means everyone will need to redo their turn and then resubmit it.

[Meglobob]

I'll put in the rollback if required. I believe this means everyone will need to redo their turn and then resubmit it.

I think everyone can put in there old 2h file, so no need to redo orders, except for which ever nation caused the crash. They will need to redo there orders. You might need Llamas help on this, hope he's not busy at the mo.

[Gregstrom]

I'm not sure there's a way of telling which player caused the problem. The automated email certainly advises that all players redo their turn.

...and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.

[Meglobob]

I'm not sure there's a way of telling which player caused the problem. The automated email certainly advises that all players redo their turn.

...and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.

Fair enough, a bit of a pain but there you go.

[Kojusoki]

so what we do? we resend the previous files?

[Quitti]

Just get the turn file llamaserver sent you after the error email, do that turn, and send it back.

[Meglobob]

Just get the turn file llamaserver sent you after the error email, do that turn, and send it back.

This means anyone next to powerful AI's like Man (who did move) after just accept any losses? Seems a little unfair...:(

[Kojusoki]

exacly - im close to MAN who did moved

[Ossa]

If we do a rollback (I'm fine with both decisions) we should do it within the next 6 hours plz

[Quitti]

I don't mind either way - I'm next to man and Man moved to siege my castle this turn though.

[Hadrian_II]

i would also vote for a rollback, but i can also live with it when we just play along.

[Gregstrom]

I think that's enough voices in favour of a rollback, so it has been done.

Given that players can't gain advantage over each other from a rollback in this instance, I don't see any major obstacle. I advise clearing your game folder before downloading the turn again - it'll reduce the chances of the bug recurring.

[Meglobob]

For me this is the only reason why a rollback feature exists to recover from purely computer errors outside of any 1 players control. Lets hope alls good this time, otherwise we are going to after figure out who has the dodgy 2h file.

[Janlm]

So, do we really need another week to send in our turns again?

[Gregstrom]

I doubt it. The host interval has already been reset to 72h, and quickhost is on. I've just cut the deadline back by a little less than 4 days, giving about 72 hours until the next turn comes.

[Meglobob]

Just a warning the new patch may produce cheating errors next turn. Its being discussed on the main board. I suggest we just ignore them if there is any.

[Meglobob]

The Lizards of C'tis would like to trade for N gems, we have F, S, D, W and A gems available.

PM me if interested.

[Agema]

I've been controlling the pathetic little remnant of Mictlan for a while to no real purpose, I'll be switching it to AI for next turn, so my neighbours please bear that in mind.

Thanks to everyone, it was good to fight some massive, crunching battles against Bandar Log and Caelum and fun whilst it lasted.

[Meglobob]

Well, its looking like Ulms going to win, he has 22VPs, just a few more and victory is his.

Can his neighbours do anything? Or is it already too late?

I don't even know where his empire is!?!

Btw, a bit sad this thread being on the 3rd page.

[Hadrian_II]

Well, its looking like Ulms going to win, he has 22VPs, just a few more and victory is his.

Can his neighbours do anything? Or is it already too late?

It looks like ulm is winning and the nation of pangaea is happy that our allies are winning and not the evil empire of jotunheim.

[Gregstrom]

So are the unquiet ghosts of Ashdod, if it comes to that.

[Kojusoki]

30VP are neccesarry? or more?

[Meglobob]

30VP are neccesarry? or more?

I think its 25vps, so Ulm needs 3vps?

[Gregstrom]

It was set as 45 IIRC, so there's still everything to play for. Easiest thing to do, though, is to look at the in-game graphs and see how near Ulm is to reaching the horizontal line across the screen.

[Janlm]

i haven't even met ulm yet..

[Kojusoki]

45!? Ulm has 22 already and is very close to the "winning" line

[Gregstrom]

I bet I know what happened here. Baalz started up a VP game on the Faerun map, and llamaserver defaulted the VP requirement to 25 rather than the 50 he wanted. My guess is the same happened here, but no-one noticed.

[Meglobob]

Well to be honest we are on turn 70, so 25 was probably a better total anyway. With 45 we could have been playing till turn 150 or so...not pleasent.

Still, it would be nice if someone could have a go at stopping Ulm, if at all possible.

[Kojusoki]

Mega war againts ULM?:)

[Kojusoki]

too late :)
Congratulations ULM :)

[Janlm]

yeah congratulations to Ulm, good game, thanks everybody.

[Gregstrom]

Well played, Ulm. Any chance of an AAR?

[Ossa]

Unfortunatly no, I dont have enough time at hand right now.

But the VP setting was really a bit weired - I noticed I was 3 provinces short of winning 5 turns ago. I had never been at war with *anyone*, I just happened to get a lot of the 4VP indie provinces. And managed to spam 4 iron angels a turn with my blood stone economy:)

[Gregstrom]

As noted above, it was supposed to be 45. A bug with llamaserver meant the game went to 25 VP instead, and nobody noticed until recently. I guess the game could be restarted, if you like? :D

Meglobob made a good point about the game time required though (although I think a nation with enough teleporting/Trapezing SCs could probably have stolen a win sooner than that).

[Meglobob]

Congratulations Ossa/Ulm.:up:

Well done and 4 iron angels a turn, very impressive.:)

No mean feat winning with Ulm, even if you didn't after fight anyone to do it. I take it Pan/Jotun got involved in a blood thirsty war with each another? Allowing you to sneak throu?

I should have built more stone spheres earlier and spied on the western VP provinces. Then hit them with my tarts. Oh well...nevermind.

[Ossa]

I'd definitly join a rematch;)

Niefel attacked Pangea, true. I didnt need to sneak anyone though, my position was so solid no one dared to attack me - I supported Hinnom in their war against Marignon and Niefel with thousands of gold coins, but they still lost - I have expected to be forced to go to war with Marignon right away, but we settled for a NAP.

[Gregstrom]

I was limited by resources rather than gold - Ashdod are seriously resource-hungry. And with my capital locked down by rains of toads, I had serious problems with recruitment anyway.

I did kill hundreds of knights and giants with heavily outnumbered forces, though, so it wasn't all bad.

[slayers_ai]

Congratulations Ulm
good game guys!
Ashdod and Pan were doing well too :)

See you guys somewhere...cheers

[Kojusoki]

Actually I (Marignon) have already sent an ultimatum to ULM: take one more province and our NAP is gone immidietly (we had NAP3, but when there was a bug in VLs, I thought it is acceptable). I had some forces there, but with 5 angels per turn I would be anihilated. Actually I was going to cast Nexus within 4-5 turns with 500-600 astral gems and spam 2 Top level Angels but...didnt have time. I also wanted to take one of the Cits provinces with 4 crowns (I think I had no NAp with Cits - but wasnt sure and that is why I sent messages to you all)

BTW thanx to MAN, I was able to take Abbysia. I was pretty lucky, as when Abbysia gone to war with us, next turn Man forces raided them and pushed back (no politics from my side...)

We signed peace with ULM what was my mistake. I had realy troubles with Ashod - they costed me like 200 blssed knights I belive. The plan was to attack ULM with Jotun, but we were out of time :(

War with Ryleh has ended, we signed peace so Ulm was next...

That was a really nice game gentleman!
Cu next time!
Kojus Maximus