ComfortZone - All MA Nations - Running

[cleveland]

ComfortZone is an All MA Nations game. It is unique in that it's as non-unique as possible in every regard.

The game uses no mods, no crazy settings, and no special rules. In other words, it makes no attempt to compensate for perceived imbalances in Vanilla Dominions 3.

Consequently, it places the burden of balance on the players.

Sure, some nations are powerhouses. Sure, some nations get great starting positions. Sure some nations will turtle, clam, and try to wish their way to victory. In a vacuum, these would be the nations that win. But we're not in a vacuum. Instead our universe is populated by 23 agile, cleaver, & opportunistic minds all expecting to win. Through trade, diplomacy and good ol' fashioned treachery, these 23 are capable of dynamically balancing & rebalancing the game better than any artificial mechanism ever could.

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Excited? Good. The specifics:

Setup: Middle Age, all nations, Llamaserver PBEM (under the name A1ComfortZone)

All game settings: Default for MA (except for renaming, because it's not really a setting, and HoF=15, because here in America everybody deserves a chance at unequaled obesity)

Mods: none

Victory: "There can only be one." - Dominions 3 Manual, back cover

Diplomacy: "All's fair in love and war." - some creepy rapist
[Note to new players: this means that Non-Aggression Pacts (NAPs), which are very common in MP games, may be broken without affecting a player's out-of-game reputation. In other words, if your pretender is a lying backstabber, feel free to lie and backstab; nobody will hold it agaist you in other MP games. Though the players in this game may think twice about dealing with your underhanded pretender. Also, think carefully before entering into any NAP/alliance; they tend to benefit strong nations more than weak nations.]

Map: By popular demand, we'll be using a slightly modified version of Fallacy, a 330 province map by Velusian. Download from the link below.

Hosting: We'll be using a novel hosting scheme. Full explanation is available in this post (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=652405&postcount=25). Key points:
- In general, the game will run on a 27hr quickhost.
- The game will change to a 51hr quickhost only when a majority of players vote to do so. Same goes for 75hr, etc.
- During major "traveling" holidays, when most go to visit with family, hosting will be postponed during the travel period, and quickhost will be turned off.
- Reasonable extensions will be granted upon request with sufficient notice.
- You will be PM'ed if you stale. If you don't reply to the PM within 12hrs, a sub will be found.

Advice: This is a game. Don't take anything personally and don't make anything personal. Refer to your enemies by their nation's/pretender's name. Smilie your trashtalk ;). Have fun.

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Upcoming delays:
none

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Current status: Game is running on 51hr quickhost.

Llamaserver status. (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=A1ComfortZone)

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Roster:

Abysia - licker - defeated
Agartha - duncanshriek - AI
Arcoscephale - slayers_ai
Ashdod - hunt11 - defeated
Atlantis - JimMorrison
Bandar Log - Omnirizon - defeated
Caelum - qio
C'tis - vfb
Eriu - zzcat - defeated
Ermor - Quitti - defeated
Jotunheim - rabelais
Machaka - Otherling
Man - cleveland
Marignon - phalent - defeated
Mictlan - alhorro
Oceania - Mithras
Pangaea - Juffos - defeated
Pythium - Fakeymcfake - AI
R'lyeh - MadFrancis
Shinuyama - DonCorazon - defeated
T'ien Ch'i - statttis
Ulm - BesucherXia
Vanheim - Valerius

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Map file: 7263
Note: You MUST redownload, even if have the Fallacy image previously posted here. It has been very slightly changed to work on llamaserver.
7274
Orange dots = caves. Yellow line = unexpected connections due to "fjords."

[DonCorazon]

I am in - Shinuyama please!

[Xietor]

The Fallacy map is pretty good for an all middle age game. Velusion created the map, but I have the map file. if you are interested let me know and I will link it for you.

[cleveland]

DC! Long time, no see (rimshot)! :) Hope all's well, I can't wait to mix it up with you again. Glad to have real-life finally stabilized so that I can resume abandoning it for Dom3.

Xeitor - Thanks a lot. If you get a chance send me the link, but no rush. It remains to be seen if the game will make it off the ground, which you can help do by signing up, by the way. :)<o></o>

Both - The ghosts of Eriu await you both in the Kingmaker afterlife... ;)<o></o>

[JimMorrison]

I am unable to resist.

I'll be the fat kid who pees in the pool - AKA Atlantis.


(EDIT - I'd be happy to run the map generator nth times to get a good map, then optimize start positions and whatnot, to your specifications, if you would like.)

[cleveland]

Welcome aboard Jim!

Now let's see which brave, self-assured soul will take Oceania, the kid who pees in the Special Olympics pool...<o></o>

[hunt11]

I'll take Ashod

[Fakeymcfake]

Sign me up for C'tis

[MadFrancis]

I'll play R'lyeh.

[DonCorazon]

DC! Long time, no see (rimshot)!
Heh, took me a second to get that - good to have you back Cleveland. Your sense of humor and eye shield fetish have been missed.

[Xietor]

I made a mod that i play tested in single play called KOA. It beefs MA Man up a tad, but not too terribly much. It moves them from the bottom towards the middle, but in no way near the top.

And it does make Man much more fun to play. I am going to put a link for it in the mods forum after this post. I would love to see it tested in mp.

But I had my hands full playing Man with the mod with jotunheim on ai, so it is NOT overpowered.

I meant to start a MA game to test Throne of Heroes and the Kingdom of Avalon mod(Ma Man) this fall, but Kingmaker has taken its toll on me and I am taking a break from mp after it is done. But if I can do anything to talk you into playing MA Man with the mod let me know.:smirk::smirk:

If not, i understand and I will one day start a similar game and try and twist KO's arm to play MA Man with the mod.:)

[Nikelaos]

Welcome aboard Jim!

Now let's see which brave, self-assured soul will take Oceania, the kid who pees in the Special Olympics pool...<o></o>

i've urged myself not to be that kid, well actuaslly i am that kid but only in the doedicurus game so for this i'll be someone else.

i'll take Tien Chi

[Valerius]

Vanheim, please.

[Fakeymcfake]

Would it be alright if I switched my nation to Pythium?

[licker]

Abysia if its still available please.

[Juffos]

I would like to command the mighty hordes of Pangaea to victory.

[Mithras]

Being a newb I'll take the fat kind who's been genecticly fused with a fish (Ocenia fit that left anybody guessing). Never even played them in SP before so it should be interesting :D

[Quitti]

I'd like Ermor.

[cleveland]

We filled 12 of 23 nations in just 5hrs. Awesome.

Xeitor - Sorry, but it'd be against the spirit of the game to change anything, though I'd personally be very interested in trying out your mod for myself.

Fakeymcfake - You got it. The Pythanese await your orders.

Mithras - Welcome to MP! Oceania has a bit of a bad reputation, so expect a rough row to hoe. If you haven't seen it, I HIGHLY recommend reading Baalz pseudo-guide on Oceania, which should give you an idea of what they might face in an MP environment.

[vfb]

The Fallacy map is pretty good for an all middle age game. Velusion created the map, but I have the map file. if you are interested let me know and I will link it for you.

Oh, forgot to mention this before I left Fallacy: The Fallacy map has a province with no connections, #37. It looks like it should be connected to #51.

[licker]

Oh, and I would vote FOR using CBM if you are still considering it.

Though I'm still game if you decide against it.

[alhorro]

I'd like to join with Mictlan.
And what's with the hosting interval? Settings are great for me, but it's very irritating when the interval moves to 48h+ early. (:

[llamabeast]

You are of course more than welcome to use the LlamaServer.

Sounds like this'll be a fun game.

[cleveland]

licker - I'd like to keep the game mod-free, if it's OK with everyone. While the base game isn't perfectly balanced, the cleaver members of this Mensa-esque community tend to compensate beautifully through trade, diplomacy & cunning. But thanks for still sticking around!

alhorro - Mictlan's yours. Re: Hosting. I also hate when the game grinds to a snail's pace by turn 15. But I also understand that some players have important jobs curing cancer and will probably need some flexibility. I've given it some thought, and will post my proposed hosting schedule shortly.

Llamabeast - Thank you very much! I certainly expect it to be fun, right up until the bitter self-loathing that accompanies a crushing defeat. :)

[cleveland]

I propose the following novel hosting scheme. I hope to hear some feedback...

In general, the game will run on a 27hr quickhost. 27hr is unusual, but I think it will keep the game @ 1 turn/day longer than a 24hr quickhost would by mitigating the time-crunch issues that usually cause a game to switch from 24hrs to 48hrs. For example, let's say a player begins his turns at 9pm each night. If he submits at 10pm, and he's the last to do so, then the deadline for the following turn will be 10pm. So the following night, he begins at 9pm, and is last to submit at 9:45pm...eventually, like a fossil-fuel-based-economy, this system collapses, and that player complains he can't get his turns done in 24hrs, invariably leading to a 48hr schedule. By setting the quickhost to 27hrs, everyone will ALWAYS have an additional 3hr buffer to micro-script for those important battles, which will hopefully allow for several months of smooth 1 turn/day play.

The game will change to a 51hr quickhost only when a majority of players vote to do so. Following standard parliamentary procedure, when any player feels the game timer should be permanently increased, he makes a motion to do so by posting in this game thread; if another player seconds that motion, a vote will be held: all players vote to either increase the timer or not. Quorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum) shall be 75% of ACTIVE players, and >50% vote wins. If the vote fails, no new vote can be held for at least 2 full turns. Similar votes must be held to move to 75hrs, etc. Just like in the real US Senate, I suspect laziness will act to maintain the status quo until change is absolutely necessary (God bless America, land of oppor-lethargy :))

There will be 3 exceptions to the above schedule:
1) The game will begin on a Saturday @ 12pm GMT, and be on a 12hr quickhost until the following Monday @ 12am GMT. This is 36hr @ 12hr quickhost, so we should be able to push through at least the first 3 turns during the first weekend, probably more. Given that it takes most cognizent beings approximately 37sec to complete these turns, this is a very reasonable way to get the game rolling quickly. If we fill up soon, we'll start this Saturday (11/15); otherwise we'll start on 11/21. After that first weekend, we'll immediately assume the above 27hr schedule and stick to it.
2) During major "traveling" holidays, when most go to visit with family, hosting will be postponed during the travel period, and quickhost will be turned off. Don't be that guy that skulks off to the john with his laptop during Thanksgiving dinner to check for new .trns. Spend time with your families, come back to Dom3 afterward. Here in the US, the next 2 upcoming holidays are Thanksgiving (11/27) Christmas/New Year's; the game will consequently be postponed from 11/26-12/1, and from 12/23-1/2. If you have any similar holidays, let me know and we'll make similar arrangements.
3) Reasonable extensions will be granted upon request. Kindly give everyone as much warning as possible, nobody likes to get a delay message 4min before hosting. If you feel you can't keep up with your turns, please request a sub early, nobody likes a Houdini.

Thoughts?

[licker]

Those holiday delays work well for me! I'll be gone from 11/26-11/30 and from 12/20 (a bit early...) to 1/4 (a bit late)...

so I suppose I may need a sub for a couple of turns around your proposed xmas break.

Also, I'm not married in any way to CBM, I just prefer its flexibility in nation design, but as I said, I'm happy to stick with vanilla as well.

[DonCorazon]

You may have ascended into the Dominions lexicon with that post - I may propose all my games be hosted "Cleveland style". I would add an idea (IIRC from Omnirizon) that turn reminders be sent out 9 hours in advance so most anyone with average or below sleeping habits has a shot at getting a reminder while still awake.

Everything sounds fine to me.

[Nikelaos]

We filled 12 of 23 nations in just 5hrs. Awesome.

Xeitor - Sorry, but it'd be against the spirit of the game to change anything, though I'd personally be very interested in trying out your mod for myself.

Fakeymcfake - You got it. The Pythanese await your orders.

Mithras - Welcome to MP! Oceania has a bit of a bad reputation, so expect a rough row to hoe. If you haven't seen it, I HIGHLY recommend reading Baalz pseudo-guide on Oceania, which should give you an idea of what they might face in an MP environment.

i never really got why oceania has such a bad reputation?

itchycentaurs should be the scourge of R'lyeh early game but seem to be overlooked, i mean they are too skilled to be taken out by R'lyehs chaff slaves, to big to be trampled by shambler thralls, and have unusually high magic resistance aswell as being exellent flanking troops to bust those tentacled fellows.

against atlantis they also fair pretty well except perhaps against those lobsters, but there are cheap ways around that.

krakens are an easy way to stop lobsters and with oceania being able to use that nature spell that calls animals depending on the terrain they tend to get a handful of kraken with the usual batch of chaffy sea critters.

later on you have naiad warriors, nice aquatic guys with awe - and they come in groups of 15. And gift of health to give you more of an edge.

and so on and so forth i could keep going on about how you can take out both atlantis and R'lyeh possibly before the late game. Oceania i accept tends to be weaker than the other two late game but they are more than competative early game and have a decent chance mid game.

Mithras embrace you're nature magic, an earlly game n2 thaumaturgy spell tends to work quite well *hint*hint*

[Mithras]

*Takes notes*

[BesucherXia]

This seems to be a nice game. Please let me join you as Ulm.

[cleveland]

I'm glad you guys like the hosting schedule, I think it'll be an improvement over the standard. Keep the critiques coming.<o>

</o> DC - We'll definitely use Omni's 9hr warning idea...of course, there's no surprise that the philosopher takes 9hrs of rest each night. :) Speaking of which, where is he? Perhaps with some cajoling...<o>

</o> Nikelaos & Mithras - I found the link to Baalz Oceania post (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39212&highlight=oceania). It should be noted that shortly after that post, Baalz put on an impressive show during the early game of Kingmaker as MA Oceania, dominating the province count with a truly stunning initial expansion. With just a little cleverness, who knows what's possible?<o>

</o> Speaking of impressive initial expansion, with the recent addition of Ulm, we've managed to fill 60% of an all-nation game in 1 day of recruiting. :up:

Speaking of cajoling, start working over your MP buddies to join-in...I'd have no problem starting the game this Saturday if we can fill the roster.<o>

</o>

[hunt11]

I'm glad that this game is filling up so fast. I have one question though, what map are we going to use for this game?

[Mithras]

You'll be suprised to hear I was not filled with confidence when I read that thread. Which is a pity because I'm used to Baalz posts giving me a warm fuzzy feeling inside :D.
Oh well I'll do my best. Don't blame me for not being much of a threat to the other two water naations and I'll stick with this and hopefully learn something.

[Xietor]

MA Oceania is even more handicapped than you know! if you do not play with Throne of Heroes, Oceania does not get ANY heroes whatsoever. Shameless plug for my update to WH 1.8 for the Middle Era.:):) I know-no mods. But no heroes:confused: What a sad race with no heroes.

I tweaked the Fallacy Map. Fallacy had 22 players. So let me know if you want to use it. if you do I will see if Llamabeast can download it directly to his server so it is one of the available maps. I may do that in any event as my plan to use it one day myself.

Good luck.

[JimMorrison]

Actually, I would request that we use Worthy Heroes at least - I don't think it substantively changes the balance of the game in any way (unless Oceania is overpowered suddenly, if maybe they might possibly get a minor hero?), it just spackles in a few cracks. ;)

[Xietor]

Bah, if you do use a hero mod for the middle age you should use Throne of Heroes rather than WH. Since Throne of Heroes is an update to Wh 1.8 for the middle era only. It is a Turin approved update to Worthy Heroes 1.8. Turin being the creator of Worthy Heroes.

Besides correcting a few bugs in WH 1.8, it does add about 8 new heroes, including 3 for MA Oceania who really needs them. Those heroes were all done by Burnsabre. Shameless plug two:D.

[Nikelaos]

MA Oceania is even more handicapped than you know! if you do not play with Throne of Heroes, Oceania does not get ANY heroes whatsoever. Shameless plug for my update to WH 1.8 for the Middle Era.:):) I know-no mods. But no heroes:confused: What a sad race with no heroes.

I tweaked the Fallacy Map. Fallacy had 22 players. So let me know if you want to use it. if you do I will see if Llamabeast can download it directly to his server so it is one of the available maps. I may do that in any event as my plan to use it one day myself.

Good luck.

that's not true?

many times i've gotten triton king multi-heroes as oceania.

okay no unique heros but regardless heroes aren't really anything to rely on as a strength, and they don't seem to change much at all.

Edit: may be because of worthy heroes but heroes still don't really change anything.

[duncanshriek]

Count me in with Agartha, please

[Omnirizon]

may i have Bandar Log?

[sansanjuan]

C,
So tempting to join but too many irons in the fire right now. I'll enjoy reading the AARs.
-SSJ

PS Just occured to me. Another crazy addicting game the wife and I play teamed together is "Bookworm". Strangely addicting for us at least.

http://www.popcap.com/gamepopup.php?theGame=bookworm

.... with decent Free trial period. -S

[slayers_ai]

Bandar Log please :)

[Valerius]

slayers_ai it looks like Omnirizon already chose Bandar, though Cleveland hasn't yet had a chance to update the first post (Agartha has also been chosen since the last update).

[zzcat]

Can newbies join the game? I'd like to join with Eriu but I never played a MP before.

[Phalent]

Marignon please

Thank

[cleveland]

I was delighted to wake up to 18 nations!

Per the opening post, the game is now official. In the no-mods, no-frills, aversion-to-change spirit of the game, it shall bear the name "ComfortZone"

Are there any objections to beginning the game this Saturday, 11/15 @ 12 GMT (http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc)? This is about 24hrs from now...I'm happy to push it back 1 week if desired.

Regardless, I'll get the map stuff sorted out very shortly, and the game will show up on llamaserver soon, so get your pretenders designed! If you haven't played through llamserver before, here's how: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160

SSJ - Too bad! Maybe next time. We shall all do our best to keep the AARs flowing. Oh and Bookworm is definately addictive, particularly for someone like me, who's weekly futile attempts at the NYT crossword leave him feeling pathetic each Sunday evening...

slayers_ai - Unfortunately Valerius is right, Omnirizon reserved Bandar Log 45min before your post, and nations are first-come, first-served. However, Arcoscephale, Caelum, C'tis, Jotunheim, and Machaka are all currently available, I hope you stick around.

Xeitor - If you're still following this, could you send the Fallacy map? I'll start generating some random maps just in case, though.

[vfb]

Nobody likes lizards? Poor lizards.

I will take the lizards so they don't get any hurt feelings.

C'tis, please

[cleveland]

Alright, the map is complete!

I lucked out with the random map generator, getting a map with 345 provinces (15 per player, with proper proportion as sea) in a "surrounded single ocean" configuration.

Here's what it looks like:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3780/startsrl3.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=startsrl3.jpg)http://img266.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

I've made 20 land starts and 3 sea starts (yellow dots), all of which are randomly assigned. Nobody will start on the Southwest landmass, which intentionally can't be reached by sailing. All start locations have at least 6 neighbors, and have at 2 indy provences between the nearest enemy.

The map looked like crap as a wraparound, so I'm trying something interesting to keep the corners from becoming un-dislodgeable safehavens: the 3 corners of the Northeast landmass are interconnected caves (red dots); similarly, the 3 corners of the Southwest landmass are interconnected caves (orange dots).

It's available in Post #1. Please download and check for errors. And please give feedback.

Now to figure out how to upload to llamaserver....

[licker]

It looks to me like the starts in the SE corner are VERY tight.

Actually most starts are pretty tight, but the west has a little more room, and it appears as though that SW corner is only accessible by water provinces? And easily defensible by whatever water nation crawls out of the sea first...

Just some observations, not saying I'm rejecting the map.

Also if you plan on sticking to your 12h quickhost for the weekend I will have to drop out, there's no way I can manage that.

[JimMorrison]

It looks to me like the starts in the SE corner are VERY tight.

Actually most starts are pretty tight, but the west has a little more room, and it appears as though that SW corner is only accessible by water provinces? And easily defensible by whatever water nation crawls out of the sea first...

Just some observations, not saying I'm rejecting the map.

Also if you plan on sticking to your 12h quickhost for the weekend I will have to drop out, there's no way I can manage that.

You can't get to the comp twice in the first 24h, and have your first couple of turns memorized, and can do them blindfolded underwater? Are you sure you're a Dominions player? :eek:

[DonCorazon]

What happened to Fallacy? I haven't seen it before but I have to say that I never have enjoyed playing on these random maps as much as the man-made ones like Alexander or Epotara. This one looks like there are 4 mountains in the whole map...

[Fakeymcfake]

Wow, that's a big pond you got in the middle there. And I have to say I'm with the Don on this one. I've grown to dislike the wide openness of the random maps after a few bad experiences and find that it lacks the same sort of strategical expansion you'd find in handmade maps. I'll keep in though.

[Valerius]

Cleveland, I really like your idea of 27 hour hosting and think it will work out well. But if, as seems likely, 24 hours isn't enough time for everyone to get their pretenders submitted I wonder if it might be better to start the game on Mon./Tues. with regular 27 hour hosting rather than wait until next weekend to begin.

As regards the map, I think there should be at least one land nation starting on the SW landmass. Given that the water nations are getting 15 provinces each I don't think they should have easy access to land. And there should be a land connection to either end of the SW landmass. Also, the land start north of the SW landmass seems too good - lots of space around it compared to some of the other starts.

Lastly, I also tend to prefer the hand-drawn maps. Both because they look better and because they tend to have better balance than the random maps. So perhaps we should consider one of those.

[licker]

It looks to me like the starts in the SE corner are VERY tight.

Actually most starts are pretty tight, but the west has a little more room, and it appears as though that SW corner is only accessible by water provinces? And easily defensible by whatever water nation crawls out of the sea first...

Just some observations, not saying I'm rejecting the map.

Also if you plan on sticking to your 12h quickhost for the weekend I will have to drop out, there's no way I can manage that.

You can't get to the comp twice in the first 24h, and have your first couple of turns memorized, and can do them blindfolded underwater? Are you sure you're a Dominions player? :eek:

Nope, cannot do it *this* weekend, or practically any weekend. I have about a 2-4h block of time on the comp and that's it, so I'm just letting cleveland know.

And yeah, while it's nice to get a couple extra turns in, meh, I really don't care about speeding through the game anyway, not like I don't have other MP games going which take up more of that time anyway.

[cleveland]

It looks to me like the starts in the SE corner are VERY tight.


I agree it looks tight at first glance, but look closely at the size of the provinces in the Southeast corner - they're all very small, and consequently that area has a very high province density. I'll definitely grant that the southernmost "coastal" start is probably the toughest on the map, and will be removed (and the area rearranged) if we can't fill the roster entirely.


Actually most starts are pretty tight, but the west has a little more room,


Same goes for the west - it seems roomy, but there are quite a few high-surface-area provinces, giving it a low province density. The "lone" western province therefore certainly seems to be the best start, but after initial expansion, you'll only have 1 (maybe 2) neighbor(s), who ain't exactly gonna be surprised when you attack...


and it appears as though that SW corner is only accessible by water provinces?

And easily defensible by whatever water nation crawls out of the sea first...


Partly by design (had to work with what the mapgen gave). It wouldn't make any sense to start a land nation in the SW, and with so many land nations so close together on the NE landmass, it'll be very difficult for the water folks to come ashore. We don't want them to be bored, so they can duke it out for that patch of dirt. I set most of those provinces to "small" to limit it's overall usefulness.


Also if you plan on sticking to your 12h quickhost for the weekend I will have to drop out, there's no way I can manage that.

Well we certainly wouldn't want to lose you. I expected it'd be tough with so many players. If you're sure you can't do the 12hr, we'll start at 27hr.

What happened to Fallacy? I haven't seen it before but I have to say that I never have enjoyed playing on these random maps as much as the man-made ones like Alexander or Epotara. This one looks like there are 4 mountains in the whole map...

I haven't heard back from Xeitor regarding the Fallacy map yet, and it's no longer available through that game's link. I put this one together in case Xeitor can't dig it up. I'm certainly not married to this map, and would be happy to run the game on Fallacy - or anything else you guys like.

Cheers,
cleveland

[cleveland]

Cleveland, I really like your idea of 27 hour hosting and think it will work out well. But if, as seems likely, 24 hours isn't enough time for everyone to get their pretenders submitted I wonder if it might be better to start the game on Mon./Tues. with regular 27 hour hosting rather than wait until next weekend to begin.


Seems perfectly reasonable. I suppose this has been a pretty rushed start...I was just trying to avoid the 6-week lead time that normally accompanies new games. Probably in everyone's best interest to wail until Monday, though I'll be hesitant to push it further back.

Start changed to Monday @ 12 GMT @ 27hr quickhost.

Do you have any hand-drawn maps in mind?

[Purgatorio]

I'd like to take Arcoscephale if no one else has ...

[Caec]

I'd like to join as Caelumif its still open

[hunt11]

I've checked llamaserver and the game is not up yet

[BesucherXia]

A small question:
Can I update my pretender design after my uploading？ I believe there is no overwrite function for pretender uploading yet.

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm pretty sure you can update your pretender as long as the game hasn't started yet.

[Valerius]

@Cleveland: Hmm, good question. I was thinking of Glory of the Gods but we may already have too many land nations. With 18 land nations the average is 12.6 provinces per player; if we get the full 20 land nations it will be 11.3. I've never played on Alexander but that would give us one more province per land player.

In any case, I'm fine with the map you generated. I just think we should connect the SW landmass with the other landmass - that way we can also start a nation or two in this area. I also think that lone western province is too good a start position.

@hunt11: We can't create the game on the llamaserver until we decide on a map.

@BesucherXia: Fakeymcfake is correct, you can revise your pretender until the game starts.

[cleveland]

I've checked llamaserver and the game is not up yet

Llamaserver won't let me start a game without a map.

Xeitor is graciously trying to find the map from Fallacy, a past All-MA game which used a handcrafted map by Velusian that was specially designed for All-MA MP. Once it's found - assuming there are no objections - the llamaserver entry will be created. :up:

I suppose I should have clarified my earlier post: I've created a map just in case we can't find anything better, which shouldn't be hard. :)

[JimMorrison]

To be honest, I think the map you generated looked great - IF it were a wrap-around (though I would tend to agree, large tracts of land without some sort of physical barriers, tends to be annoying, and give too much power to the highly mobile).

Anyway, I could do a jiffy job of making it wrap-around, or if you managed to get another that is as nice, but maybe with a bit higher amount of impassable mountains.

What I do with the mapgen, is I set it to Border Mountains, and then by hand I place actual Mountain terrain where the layout implies certain provinces are more mountainous than others, then clean up the connections here and there, and then assign potential start locations. If you wanted me to see what I can come up with, I could just do all the other work, then forward it to you for starts if you like (I generally just apply a heavy layer of No Start provinces, rather than set specific starts, myself).

[Xietor]

I have emailed the Fallacy map to Llamabeast. And I am trying to upload it now to llamaserver. But it is a new feature that I am not familiar with. Though you may have to be starting a game(which i am not) to upload a map.

So I am going to post the map and image file on this thread as well.


image http://www.mediafire.com/?wmbdw2ajiza

map file should be attached.

I like this map as their are 2 continents, with 2 access points to each. Fallacy had 22 players, and all 3 water races, though of course Oceania did not last long. Ryleh was a major power, and Atlantis was still alive when the game ended, so the map is not that bad for water.

[vfb]

I think we may need to request that llamabeast upload the map himself. Last time I heard, the upload feature was broken. The Fallacy map is pretty nice, I think.

[DonCorazon]

Has anyone played Glory of the Gods (multiplayer)? - it looks nice. By my calcs it would be about 13.3 provinces per land nation (assuming we stay at 18) and 15.6 per water nation.

Not sure if water nations ideally have a couple more provinces then land nations. Anyway, I am fine with Fallacy but thought I'd throw out a more visually appealing possibility.

[Valerius]

Glory of the Gods is a nice map and I think plays well (played one game on it). The problem is that it will be somewhat crowded even if we stop adding nations now. By my count it will average 12.6 provinces per land nation (227 provinces, 18 land nations).

While it doesn't look as nice as Glory of the Gods I really like the Fallacy map. I think I'd give that my vote.

[DonCorazon]

I meant to say "assuming we stay at 17" land nations (20-3) which is what my calc is based on, but I am happy to go with Fallacy.

Edit: While the first post reads 20 nations taken, I think it is actually 21, so your calc is right Valerius.

[rabelais]

since no one seems to want it I will take iron woods (is it THAT bad... i.e. machaka bad? ;) )

Or if sign up is closed that's fine too. let me know.

[archaeolept]

the jots are good. machaka's not bad either :)

[Omnirizon]

machaka certainly isn't bad, but they arn't good either. Yet for some reason they don't catch the same kind of negative press that nations like Yomi/Jomon/monkeys do, despite the fact that Machaka has ZERO wins ever.

The deal is they have a good base, but they just don't have any of those solid gigs that they can pull off that it takes to propel a nation through mid-game and into late. sacreds too expensive and cap only, top mages capital only, no nationals (NONE), no solid and affordable non-cap units. They have decent stuff available outside their cap, but for a nation that can't really swing a bless and has no summons, they just don't have enough. If the Bane Spider and the Spider infantry guy and/or the sacred spider rider were not cap only or if they had some good national summons they might be in business. Otherwise they are just a hair under par in ALL categories. The supposedly weaker nations then them typically have SOMETHING they can do, Machaka is just too pale; which is odd considering they're all black.

[Otherling]

Well, Machaka certainly looks like a wonderful pick, what with that sales pitch and no one wanting it.

Nonetheless, I think I'm willing to give it a try. If you don't mind a fairly newish player (only a couple MP games so far), count me in for Machaka.

[slayers_ai]

i'll take the Jotunheim then :)

[Xietor]

Though I have never played Machaka in mp, but if I did I would take a nasty bless and ride those spiders as far as I could go. I would take either a f9 or n9 bless, though they likely need e4 as well. Maybe a f9 n4 e4.

But since they are capital only, to win the game, you need to think of a way to gate(astral) those spiders around the map in the midgame). Without having even tested at it, maybe an imprisoned monolith with f9 e4 n4 s4. shrug.

You do get some design points with machaka, but you likely need some production as well(:

[vfb]

Why would you take F9? Spiders have high-damage attacks with death poison. They do not need help dealing damage. I'd go E9 to crank up their already high protection and keep fatigue at 0. Once the rider dies, the spiders are cool and have nice HP, but they've got an MR of 6 or something. It's better to keep the rider alive IMO. E9 on a Colossal Fetish is doable. And your Fetish will let you actually grab some land early.

Spiders have got 3 attacks at 12/12/13, so they don't need a lot of help hitting. E9N4 will help keep them alive longer. Even though in rider form they've only got 13HP, with their great protection they will take just a few HP of damage usually. E9S4 gives a bit of protection versus Smites (while you've still got a rider), and sets you up better in the late game. At S4, your god is vulnerable to Magic Duel, but E9S6 is expensive.

Besides the spiders, you'll probably want Flaming Arrows ASAP.

[cleveland]

Good morning! And might I say WOW...we filled 23 slots in under 3 days. Outstanding.

And the icing on the cake: Xeitor has provided the Fallacy map!

I've tweaked it ever so slightly, and it is now available at the bottom of the first post. I ask that everyone please download it and provide feedback asap. If there are no glaring problems, I will open the llamaserver game at 10pm GMT tonight, so design your pretenders accordingly.

The map is shown below. Velusian's version has the following characteristics, which haven't been changed:
1) There are no set starting locations.
2) All lands with fewer than 5 land neighbors are NoStart.
3) All seas with fewer than 4 sea neighbors are NoStart.
4) There are no preset magic sites.
5) There are 330 total provinces, 35 of which constitue a continuous central sea. (14.3 prov/player, be ready for a knife-fight!)
6) Mountains are impassable.
7) Invisible land bridges join the 2 continents.

A brief changelog from the original map:
1) Minor connectivity inconsistencies were resolved, mostly regarding impassable mountains. Overall map connectivity has not been significantly changed.
2) Mountain & Boarder Mountain terraintype issues were resolved, resulting in an overall increase in both. With such a tight packing of players, the boost to planatary resources will be helpful.
3) Many provinces were given the Fresh Water designation. This is a wet map, and should be treated as such. All inland lakes are considered Fresh Water, and provinces touching them were set accordingly. Total Fresh Water provinces have probably tripled, though this has no impact on gameplay other than altering the frequency of certain magic sites (and maybe population?).
4) Inland provinces adjacent to fjords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord) were given a connection to the closest sea. It's not unreasonable to assume an aquatic amry could traverse up a fjord unopposed, as is supposed by the narrow causeway in the Eastern portion of the map. Plus it acts to increase connectivity, and therefore strategic options. In practice, only 6 new connections were made (represeted by the yellow lines in the image below)
5) All provinces with only 1 neighbor were changed to Caves. 4 total (represented by the orange dots). This is mostly for flavor, and is aesthetically pleasing :)
7254

[Xietor]

f9 bless gives the spiders a magical attack, and your attack skill can never be "too high"
especially when machaka's sacred spiders can fight angels and other thugs with very high defenses effectively. Plus you get fire damage on all 3 attacks.

But as I pointed out, I did not actually sit down and design a bless for machaka. All I said is if I played them, I would take a very heavy bless and ride the spiders as far as they would take me.

It would require a lot of testing for me to ultimately decide upon the best bless. And to do that you also need to look at some of the units they likely will be fighting.

If memory serves, their pd is awful, so i likely would not take misfortune for design points.
But good luck to the player that took the spiders!

[licker]

f9 bless gives the spiders a magical attack, and your attack skill can never be "too high"
especially when machaka's sacred spiders can fight angels and other thugs with very high defenses effectively. Plus you get fire damage on all 3 attacks.

But as I pointed out, I did not actually sit down and design a bless for machaka. All I said is if I played them, I would take a very heavy bless and ride the spiders as far as they would take me.

It would require a lot of testing for me to ultimately decide upon the best bless. And to do that you also need to look at some of the units they likely will be fighting.

If memory serves, their pd is awful, so i likely would not take misfortune for design points.
But good luck to the player that took the spiders!

If you dig in the forums I started a thread discussing a machakan bless strat using w9 since I feel that it offers them the most benefit. f9 would be easier to get without mangleing your scales too much, but I didn't find it really helped that much (though I would recommend that you take a f4 minor bless if possible).

I believe I used a divine glyph (AWAKE of all things...) with f4w9s6, of course scales were not great, but I've not found the misfortune (at 2) to be too bad considering that you should also take O3. Drain is a bit of a pita, but you should be able to forge skull mentors natively, once you find some death income, and in MP finding death income is nominally not too difficult if you find someone willing to trade for hammers or fire or earth gems. You will probably also need to take a touch of sloth, but unless your capitol has a really bad starting position with respect to neighbors with resources, once you clear the area around it you have enough resources so as not to be limited there with your spider production.

[Xietor]

I would definitely want n4e4 in there at a bare min. Once the rider dies, the spider has a ton of hps and can really benefit from regeneration. That also helps keep afflictions down.

E4 is also key as fatigue can bring down even the best sc. In fact that is how I typically kill sc's.

Given their low mr without a rider though, and the number of s races in the middle era, maybe a s9 n9 e4 bless is the way to go.

And if you run into ethereal right off(ermor) use flaming arrows. Flaming arrows has to be high on your list as machaka I think in any event.

[Xietor]

With respect to the machaka spider bless, you can do the s9n9e4 with an imprisoned Sphinx order 3, 1 prod, 3 heat, 2 misfortune 1, 0 luck, and 2 drain. If you do not like bad events, or micromanagement associated with misfortune, scrap the 1 production
and take 1 death and 0 luck scales.

The berserk at n9 gives some protection boost, attack boost, and of course good units that fight to the death are always nice. Especially units with high hps, protection, and regeneration.

With 22 players in the game, make friends with a race with high research(ctis) and trade with them for some lightless lanterns and that drain 2 is more helpful than not.

[JimMorrison]

Okay, as I really dislike that map (it's pretty and all - for an SP map) for the same reasons I dislike many maps; it is actually really awful for aquatics.

So as I promised you Cleveland, here are 4 examples of my efforts with the generator last night, let's see if I can figure out how to get the images to display properly, I seem to remember it's more complicated than it needs to be.....


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/bobonomad/Comfort1.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/bobonomad/Comfort4.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/bobonomad/Comfort3.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/bobonomad/Comfort2.jpg

[Valerius]

Thanks Cleveland, the map looks good to me.

[JimMorrison]

Okay, well that worked just fine! \:happy:/

Anyway, if there is any support for a change here (I think the one with the 2 lakes is fairest for water and land, and they are split perfectly for 1 aquatic in the small lake, and 2 in the large), then I will do up a quick job of fixing terrains, neighbors, and potential start locations, and post the completed file for mass consumption.

I ran the mapgen 30x last night, don't you want to sample my luscious fruits? :shock:

[DonCorazon]

i vote to stick with Cleveland's map

[Mithras]

Fallacy looks good to me, I'll just have to hope I'm not in the middle lake. I agree with Jim in that it forces conflict in the water, but thats what I want apparently, so looks ok for me :D

[Xietor]

Fallacy map sucks for water races? Ryleh likely was one of the top 3 powers in Fallacy. He started in the right hand side, made peace with Oceania(middle water) and Oceania and Atlantis fought in water. Ryleh went ashore and took large chunks of land on the Northern Continent.

I think your have tunnel vision if you think the water races are limted to water, or that the map should give them a huge water area so that they have no need to come ashore.

I actually favor Making the water races come ashore if they want to be a major factor in the game, and not giving them a huge water area where they can sit and build tons of forts and clam until the endgame.

[Valerius]

Hi Jim. I agree that water nations have a tougher position with the Fallacy map but I think water nations are just kind of problematic. With 3 water nations in the game you can win 1 or 2 wars and then just camp out the rest of the game, clamming and researching in relative security. This makes me lean towards making it tougher, not easier, for water nations. I also vote to stick with Cleveland's version of Fallacy (though I agree map 2 looks nice).

[JimMorrison]

Nonsense, Xietor.

The problem has multiple facets, with long strung out waterways.

First, it doesn't "force" underwater conflict, as you show with the strongest power out of the water being the one that made peace in the water. ;) Also, it severely limits underwater mobility, so those early aquatic wars become brute force tug-of-wars in narrow channels. With more solid water terrain, raiding and other tactics become viable, beyond just "my army must beat his army in province X, if it does I win the war, if it doesn't I lose".


But beyond that, I have 2 major complaints with the long skinny stretches of water, and I think they become the 2 primary reasons that water nations rarely win games, beyond considerations of the national capabilities -

First: While aquatics can (and should) get onto land early in the game to get a foothold, they still produce most of their elite forces underwater. Your coastal castles can build "something useful" usually, and your inland castles make nothing but indie troops. The severe lack in most maps of adequate places to put decent underwater castles (most spots have 2-3 neighbors), puts a severe limit on production of a nation's best troops (such as Icthycentaurs, or Shamblers of the Deep - let alone 40ish resource Basalt Pillars). Ironic that you used R'lyeh as your example, again, as most people rely on lobos and Illithids, which only require 1 resource apiece.

Second: The logistics of Dominion spread force aquatic nations to struggle to not be Dom killed, let alone to propagate their own beneficial Dominion just for the benefits that they spent design points on.


In my opinion, Glory is bad enough for aquatics, but this Fallacy map is even worse.

[Xietor]

None of the 3 water races had dominion issues in Fallacy. I agree that can be a concern in a cradles of dominion map. But this map is not that.

And it was a Bit## for me to go in and dig out the Ryleh fort by fort, and that was using crumble every single time. He had a fort in every water province. You can imagine the nightmare if he had 45 underwater provinces with a fort in every single one!

And even with a clam nerf in Fallacy(cost more to make), I think Ryleh had a substantial clam income. You have no mods here, so clamming is an even bigger concern on a large map with the underwater nations.

Atlantis was alive as well at the end of Fallacy, but he lost a war with the Ryleh(after Ryleh had his clams and communions going). In fact ryleh crushed both Atlantis and Caelum at the same time. And both of those nations had won earlier wars.

So you are not going to hear anyone crying a river for how tough the Ryleh have it. They are easily a top 2 or 3 race in the middle era.

[JimMorrison]

So you are not going to hear anyone crying a river for how tough the Ryleh have it. They are easily a top 2 or 3 race in the middle era.

I already agreed that R'lyeh is the least hurt by the "decentralized lands" problem. I have not played MA Oceania, but I know that R'lyeh not only gets useful 1 resource troops in water, but their coastal castles have better recruits than Atlantis.

Just to clarify, I am not playing R'lyeh, so they are not my major balancing concern in the map. I'm playing Atlantis, which has some severe economic issues with spread out provinces, and whose coastal provinces only make Atlantian Light Infantry, which suuuuuuck so badly. Looking at Oceania, they will suffer even worse underwater when starved for resources, but I can't comment on their coastal recruits - though I am reasonably sure they are getting the worst of the deal.

While I agree that it's possible to turtle up underwater, and clam or whatever, it rarely seems to win the game - it only should if the rest of the world is either lazy, or deadlocked, otherwise once a land nation gets a strong advantage and leverages it, the aquatic nation with all those clams will likely be SOL by the time they realize they are actually losing.

[cleveland]

Jim - Thanks for putting in the time to try synthesize a new map. I agree with you: preventing the water nations from turtling is a major responsibility of the land nations. As Xeitor points out, failing to do so means a possible stalemate. Regardless, I appreciate the time you invested, I know how much it takes to get the mapgen to spit out a coherent water mass.

But it seems popular opinion hasn't budged from Fallacy, so we'll stick to it.

Speaking of which, I've identified a few more "fjord" type connections to be made for consistency. An updated picture of the map, with all fjord connections in Yellow:
7257
Sorting out the connectivity of that NE island was tough, but I think a proper balance is struck by treating province 223, which is land cut in half by the sea, as a barrier to aquatic travel (represented by the red line). Presumably the inhabitants of this province would occupy both banks of the province, and therefore be able to stop any armies trying to travel through. Thoughts?

[JimMorrison]

I appreciate your time too, Cleveland, you're doing good things with this game. <3

I'm unsure about the issue with 223. That waterway should be miles wide, and by extrapolation, is probably at least 1000' deep? Not sure the landlubbers would even know there were troop movements, let alone have researched Depth Charge technology to deal with it. Would be interesting if there were a mechanic to differentiate between deep sea dwellers (gillers) with surface water dwellers (lungers).

Anyway, we'll have a good game one way or another, and if I have to win on a map that is not very good for aquatics, then the victory dance will only be that much sweeter. And if I lose (95% or so probability!), then I'm blaming the map, not my pretender design, or any decisions I personally make thereafter. ;)

[cleveland]

I'm unsure about the issue with 223.

Me too. I'd originally tried simply connecting everything, but it turns out to be a convoluted mess...lots of connections, lots of aesthetically disturbing lines criss-crossing each other, very hard to decipher. I didn't want to simply eliminate the inland connections either, just because it's a neat geographic feature. I think this is a nice compromise, though I'm in full agreement that depth charges are definitely a LA technology. :)


And if I lose (95% or so probability!)

Me too. ;)

Off to upload to llamaserver...

[cleveland]

http://blog.stevienova.com/wp-content/uploads/LiveWriter/ClassicTechnicalDifficultiesImage_1388B/9f042.jpg

Hmmm. Llamaserver seems to think the map is already located in it's databanks, and therefore won't allow me to upload it. A thorough scan of the map browser revealed nothing, though.

It's around midnight in the British Isles, so Llamabeast is probably either drinking Newcastle from a boot or dreaming of quantum electrodynamics in non-integer dimensions. Either way, I don't think we'll be online until the sun rises on the British empire...

[archaeolept]

you can do the s9n9e4 with an imprisoned Sphinx order 3, 1 prod, 3 heat, 2 misfortune 1, 0 luck, and 2 drain. I see - this is why "machaka never wins" - people keep trying insane bless strats. go for scales, a good pretender, and spider knights/hoplite armies :)

oh, yeah, their PD is truly awful. don't bother with it, other than a pt or 2 to dissuade scouts.

[rabelais]

Machaka's hoplites in dom2 were awesome... and their archers were cheaper...not sure why they were nerfed for dom3. It's true that a critical mass of web attacks are shockingly effective in sp... but they'e never been a MP scarecard. also giving the sorcerors a break in the age dept (they have magic/demon blood after all) would go a long way to restoring machaka's battlemage potential. eagle eyes + fire darts is fun, but it stops there, pretty much.

I think Man will be ok in this game, it seems to me that CBM makes them weaker, so the old version with range 40 resource 8 longbows will do pretty well, even with the weaker pretenders.

[Xietor]

I have won my share of mp games. It is my humble opinion that the best, though admittedly small, path to victory machaka has is through an aggressive early game on the back of its Sacred Spiders. But there are more than one way to skin a cat.

You can get some of both worlds with a monolith s9n9 3order, 6 dom, 2 drain, 1 growth, 3 heat. Those are pretty good scales and gives you growth to lessen the old age effects of your best mages.

I have fought Machaka when it has had good scales, and it is basically helpless with hoplite armies. The stealthed banes can be easily mind hunted. The early thugs with constr 4 gear like banelords will plow through any castle bought troop that machaka can throw out.

In fact in 2 of the games I won I had 1 on 1 wars with machaka. And in both games they had decent players. And in both cases they had no bless and in both cases they were soundly beaten.

Though Sir_D_D did have an interesting strategy with them he had the Pheonix and used flaming arrows, arrow fend, hoplites, and various death summons and had several stealth bane armies, plus evocation spells.

But in the end they just came up short-way short-against Shinuyama who i was playing.
And when i fought them as Pythium it was a pretty big mismatch.

I think the sacred spiders with their web attack, poison, and a good bless, could make
Machaka somewhat feared. You could possibly get by without the e4 bless until you got relief depending on who you fought. But stellar cascades could be brutal for the spiders without it.

And the Monolith is superior to the Sphinx in that it can gate armies around. Oracle can gate as well, but i hate the 10 hps more than the immobility.

I guess you could always take a sleeping Lich, d5, e3, a3, and try to tie into death and use the Lich to beat off all comers in your dominion. That is a valid strategy with any nation. basically what I did with la arcos in Kingmaker, and what I would do if I ever played Man, Oceania, or any other race that had no tie in to thugs.

With diplomacy, and a Lich with the proper buffs, it is always possible to pull a game out of the hat.

All of that said, I have never played them in mp, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

[archaeolept]

old age does not affect machaka's mages so much - they tend to lose their afflictions when they "die"... We really should have a new machaka thread; KO has mentioned doing some work on them, and it would be nice to pique his interest in some way... I'd be happy w/ machaka if they had pd that wasn't utter ****e, and a buff to their sacreds or their troops.

[lch]

KO probably meant that he's working on Machaka's EA version titled "Lion Kings". I wonder if this includes Simba, Pumbaa and Timon national heros...

[Xietor]

Maybe my version of the fallacy map was uploaded by llamaserver after all. You may need to talk to llamabeast about the tweaks.

[cleveland]

Alright! After some unexpected difficulties, we're cleared for takeoff by Captain llamabeast. Though I do want to thank lch, who very graciously offered to host the game if llamaserver fell through.

Kindly do the following:

1) Upload your pretenders ASAP. Follow the llamaserver instructions HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=529316&postcount=2). Do not forget to disable all mods! The title of your email to pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net should be ComfortZone. If you don't submit your pretender by Monday, 17 Nov @ 12noon GMT (http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc), you'll be PM'd a reminder. If you don't submit by 17 Nov @ 11pm GMT, you will be replaced.

2) Download the map file in the first post (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=652132&postcount=1) EVEN IF YOU ALREADY HAVE FALLACY, and unzip in your dominions3/maps directory. It's slightly different to mesh with llamaserver.

:up:

[hunt11]

Llamaserver is not excepting pretenders right now

[llamabeast]

I think it is, isn't it?

[BesucherXia]

It could be a bug. The game setting says "max no players" instead of "no limits"

[llamabeast]

Hmm, something funny happened to this one. It seems to have tried to start with no players. You'll probably need to create it again - use a name like ComfortZone2 or something.

[cleveland]

OK! Second time's a charm.

The game is now called ComfortZone2. Please follow the above instructions, but instead send your pretender in an email titled ComfortZone2

Cheers,
cleveland


Ignore everything in red. It's still not working.

Llama, from llamaserver: "Game ComfortZone2 is already full."

....?

I set the # of players to "No Limit"...presumably the problem is with this setting?

[JimMorrison]

Game: ComfortZone2
Middle Age, max No players

Map: ComfortZone
Mods: None

Nations joined so far:
None


Actually, I think you're right Cleveland, there may be a glitch in the "No Limit" setting itself. I think this happened to someone else awhile back, and it was fine when he set a finite number of players.

[llamabeast]

Ah, you're doing a good job of uncovering the bugs in the LlamaServer's create game pages. Indeed, it turns out that I never wrote any code for the "No limit" option, so t just stuck "No limit" in a file where a number would normally go, causing a degree of confusion to the server.

Anyway, I have fixed that now, so you can now use that option without problems. Further, I'll free up the name "ComfortZone", so you can use it again.

[licker]

Great, I won't be able to get in my pretender for another 10 hours or so, but am happy to get this thing started, even if it's only to have it pause again next week ;)

[cleveland]

OK! Third time's a charm.

The official Llamaserver name is A1ComfortZone, so it should be easy to find in the phonebook. Please follow the instructions HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=653337&postcount=101), but instead send your pretender in an email titled A1ComfortZone.

Please note that the deadline to submit your pretenders is now delayed by 24hrs: If your pretender is not uploaded by Tuesday, 18 Nov @ 12noon GMT, you'll be PM'd. If it's not uploaded by 18 Nov @ 11pm GMT, you'll be replaced.

Cheers,
cleveland

[cleveland]

Pretenders are due in just under 9hrs.

Cheers,
cleveland

[cleveland]

We are waiting on just 2 more pretenders. The game has now been set to automagically begin on their arrival. Both overlords have been PM'd, so we can expect to start shortly :up:

Cheers
cleveland

[cleveland]

JimMorrison,

I'm not sure if you've checked your PMs today, I'm afraid if you don't submit your pretender in the next 4hrs, I'll have to give ATLANTIS to slayers_ai.

If you're a work & can't send PMs, email me at dom3cleveland[ at ]gmail[ dot ]com.

Cheers,
cleveland

[JimMorrison]

Hey I'm here, just getting moving and then I was going to do a final check on my pretender. Not meaning to hold things up, I just had a kind of long night last night. :p

[cleveland]

Game is live!

Good luck everyone.

-Man

[Purgatorio]

Silly question here. How is it possible that Abysia research is already at 116? Am I doing something wrong?

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=A1ComfortZone

[JimMorrison]

116 is odd. The Llamaserver tracks total points though (from the scoregraph), not current rate. So if he started with an awake high magic rainbow/researcher, it's possible, but he's sacrificed a lot to get that pretender out there with that many paths.

Also, has anyone else been screwed with excessively powerful indies? I had to check the settings to confirm that the game started at Strength 5..... 2 of my neighbors are Sea Trolls and Kraken (both, no one in each), and most of the rest are no pushover militias. o.O

[licker]

Silly question here. How is it possible that Abysia research is already at 116? Am I doing something wrong?

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=A1ComfortZone

All you are doing wrong is not surrendering to the massive research lead abysia already has.

Certainly all resistance is pointless, and you should simply kneel before the true god of the world.

A wise man once said 'knowledge is power', and verily this will be proven true. Well assuming that no one else bothers to get any knowledge for themselves...

[vfb]

Indies are normal in the land of the lizards, but it is just a wee bit crowded in our neck of the woods!

[Mithras]

Oceania has been having its backside handed to it by independants, but then what did you expect? I had one unlucky event though so I'm blaming everything on that :D
Hope we're all having fun!

[DonCorazon]

News from Shinuyama:
Religious scholars in Shinuyama are heatedly debating whether saying "the One Who Should Not be Named" is a actually referring to the one who should not be named, and thus blasphemy. Its quite perplexing for our goblin minds. We are contemplating the adoption of a symbol (like the US singer once known as Prince) to resolve the religious dilemma.

[vfb]

Blasphemer!

***vfb chucks a rock at DonCorazon

[Mithras]

Hmm, scholar from Oceiania says
If 'he who must not be named' materializes (it wont of course, being a false idol) will it be blaspheming itself by being in existance (As surely existing is akin to being named as to exist one must be named...) And thus will it get stoned?
Oceiania demands rocks be thrown at the god of Shinuyama for the crime of blashemy agaisnt itself.
All worship Brian, the one true god.

[vfb]

Ooooooh!

***vfb chucks a rock at Mithras

[Otherling]

The fact that your god's name can be comprehended by mortal minds in the first place is the very proof of its falsehood. This is why the Machakans worship the true god, Ahktalana (not our god's name, but rather Machakan for "name which cannot be pronounced").

[Mithras]

We just spent several lines explaining the oposite. If a god has no name it cannot exist, or it blashemes agaisnt itself ergo Brain is the best name for a god, not only is it memorable but it is easy to chant when all you've got is gills :D

[cleveland]

Excerpt from the Nation of Man's contribution to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:


"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

[Mithras]

Man then goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the nearest zebra crossing :D
I love Douglas Adams

[cleveland]

All,

I hope everyone's enjoying the limited elbowroom of ComfortZone.

Just a reminder, this game will be postponed from Wed, Nov 26th to Monday, Dec 1st with quickhost off.

Cheers,
cleveland

[licker]

I'm not sure if 'enjoying' is the right word...

buckle up folks the rides about to get bumpy...

[cleveland]

All,

Rabe, leader of R'lyeh, has had a family emergency, per his post in the MP board.

Unfortunately, I didn't see his message until after CZ hosted.

I think it's appropriate to begin the planned Thanksgiving break a bit early, and have therefore set the game to host at 4:45 GMT on Dec 2nd. However, I will leave quickhost on for the next 18hrs, just in case everyone can get one last turn in, and will turn quickhost back on at 18:00 GMT on Dec 1st.

Cheers,
cleveland

[alhorro]

Hmm, but as I see, Rabe is Jotun leader and his turn was in time.

And as for the break — why don't you just set the interval to 7 days and leave quickhost on?

[cleveland]

Hmm, but as I see, Rabe is Jotun leader and his turn was in time.
Ah. I'm a bad host who doesn't check the roster before stating his assumptions. My mistake.


And as for the break — why don't you just set the interval to 7 days and leave quickhost on?
Because invariably someone won't be able to/won't want to play, and won't submit his turn until 1hr before the hosting deadline. Meanwhile, the rest of us will spend an entire week splitting our time between punching refresh on our inbox and publishing scathing diatribes on the boards about how inconsiderate that one guy is. Unnecessary drama, considering the delay is completely unavoidable, particularly with so many players. In my very humble opinion.

[Fakeymcfake]

But.... I was already working up a rough draft of my diatribe with convenient blank spaces so as I could easily fill in the name of whomever aforementioned last minute one guy is.

DRAT IT ALL, MY WORK IS FOR NAUGHT!!!

[cleveland]

Your welcome, previously-destined-to-be-filled-in-the-blanks guy. Enjoy your awkward Scotch with Uncle Creepy, guilt free. :)

[cleveland]

Alright. Quickhost will be disabled in 3hrs. If you can't get your turn in before then, no big deal, I'll eat the criticism. To those in celebration of Thanksgiving (and now, more than ever, Black Friday), I wish you a happy holiday. To those who aren' t: on behalf of the US: sorry about that whole credit meltdown thing. Spend money, please. The only thing we have to fear is complete global economic meltdown itself.

See you Monday. :)

[cleveland]

OK, the game is officially back online!

Quickhost is back on, and with only 1 nation left to submit, the game will host in around 12hrs.

Cheers,
cleveland

[cleveland]

It seems Real Life has reared it's ugly head at our friend Caec, the overlord of Caelum, who has asked me to find a sub for his nation.

I've asked him to play an additional turn if we can't find a replacement before the next hosting. If you know anyone who'd like to take over a solid MA nation that's currently in 3rd place on the Dominion graph, has a healthy gem income, and got one of the 4 corners in a cramped map, please have them post on this thread...first come, first served.

Cheers,
cleveland

[qio]

Ok, I can sub Caelum. See PM cleveland.

[slayers_ai]

opps, seems i am late again. :)

[DonCorazon]

The situation in our neighborhood is comedy. My neighbors include such heavyweights as Ashdod, Pangea and Pythium. Some capitals are almost right on top of each other and war has already begun while a swathe of indy provinces is just sitting there fallow. Not sure why we all seemed to head in the same directions or people go to war with anything they see. We'd ask He Who Cannot Be Named for wisdom but the divine leader is now sitting in our capital collecting pigeon droppings, after an unfortunate run-in with the lovely Wat. In other news, Arcos decided to get in the underwater province game starting another early game conflagration.

Shin predicts winner of this game will be the cat who sits in the corner while the dogs tear themselves apart.

[hunt11]

That's why Ashod is preposing a solution to this mix up. Instead of a mix of nations, their be one chaotic empire that as soon as world domination is achieved, we turn on our previous allies in the most bloody and short end game imaginable :D.

Really though, this has to take the cake for bad starting positions.

[licker]

Abysia agrees that the starting positions were screwy.

As our pathetic income attests, we have not seen a province with more than 6k pop in our general area. Thus making our only choice to take one with 30k+...

Still the corner nations have a massive advantage on this map it would seem, we'll see if they translate it into anything or not.

[Nikelaos]

the pink community of tien chi declares war, not really for land but just to see those hot sweaty warrior bodies, meow.

[cleveland]

Rabble rabble rabble!

Who the hell thought Fallacy would be a good idea?!?

:)

[cleveland]

OK, so qio has officially taken over Caelum from Caec. Hosting will be postponed by 12hrs to give him a chance to get his feet underneath him; the new deadline is 21:50 GMT on Wednesday December 3rd.

Cheers,
cleveland

[JimMorrison]

Rabble rabble rabble!

Who the hell thought Fallacy would be a good idea?!?

:)


No comment. :re:

[cleveland]

Nations of the world, rejoice!

Mismeasure, Prince of Strength, The Rock, Pantokrator II, of Man has awoken!

And to get things off on the right foot, He, as a demonstration of His infinite strength and unrivaled power, decided to rough-up a local feeble old witch for her magically powerful marble-rye bread. The exchange:


MISMEAURE: Gimme that rye!

CRONE: Stop it. Let go. Help! Someone, help!

Mismeasure wrests the rye from the old lady's grip.

MISEASURE: Shut up, you old bag!

Mismeasure races away down the street with the rye.

CRONE: (shouting after him) Thief! Stop him! Stop him, he's got my rye! CURSE!


That's right. In spite of paying for a Luck scale, my pretender awoke, and was immediately cursed by the stupid Vengeful Witch event.

I swear to Mismeasure, I've never had worse luck in a game...it was bad enough getting the the Brigands-Have-Taken-Up-Residence-in-a-Ruin event on f-ing turn 2, and getting my only useful Crone of Avalon diseased during this past Winter, but this Receiving-A-Cursed-Pretender business takes the cake. :mad:

[DonCorazon]

I am glad someone else sounds as miserable as me this game.

Imagine a neighbor who leaves 2 of the provinces adjacent to his capital unconquered while he beelines straight for you and petrifies your pretender, or another neighbor who sees an empty-Shin controlled ocean province (the kappa's were on shore leave) and thinks he can waltz in with a few mermen like nothing is going to happen.

What a debacle! PS starting wars with the first nation you see is not generally a good strategy for long-term success (unless you're Ashdod). I hope to prove that (shortly). :)

[JimMorrison]

What a debacle! PS starting wars with the first nation you see is not generally a good strategy for long-term success (unless you're Ashdod). I hope to prove that (shortly). :)

And Ashdod seems to be getting beaten down by TC already. ;) Hard to say who is actually winning, they're both awfully small.....

[alhorro]

Oh, Mictlanese attache can tell you about a bad luck.

Our naive Defense Minister was convinced by a local dealer to hire a company of elephants, that counted for 550 grp taken from our educational budget. The exotic beasts were huge and fearsome, however their stupid coward commander ran away with all our gold in the first battle, after receiving a 2-hp scratch from a feral ghoul.

After the incident the Lawgiver had to agree, that abandoning blood sacrifices was a really bad idea — all that capitalism stuff doesn't work. Demons were much more reliable. For that reason we would like to purchase some research items, for exchange we can offer gold, all types of gems (except D), D gems and best virgins would be available later for trusted contractors.

[Juffos]

Heh, I sure did underestimate your ability to resist early aggression, Shinuyama
:)

[Nikelaos]

What a debacle! PS starting wars with the first nation you see is not generally a good strategy for long-term success (unless you're Ashdod). I hope to prove that (shortly). :)

And Ashdod seems to be getting beaten down by TC already. ;) Hard to say who is actually winning, they're both awfully small.....

why tien chi is winning off course, in but 2 months of deciding on war we have claimed the capital of ashdod (minus the fortress), ahsdod seem to be sending in the reinforcements but it seems to mostly be gileadites (now i doubt they'll do better than the gileadites from province defence). Tien chi will owe it's victory to the immensly cheap cavalry our lord has gifted us.

Now this game is starting to get ironic, Ashdod getting RUSHED by the pink community.

[hunt11]

Don't count your eggs before they hatch (imagine what is the most feared part of early game Ashod, now guess what's in that fort:evil:)

[duncanshriek]

...
For that reason we would like to purchase some research items, for exchange we can offer gold, all types of gems (except D), D gems and best virgins would be available later for trusted contractors.

Agartha would like to establish trade relationships. Sorry, we don't produce research items, but are interested in death gems. We can pay in earth gems.

[Nikelaos]

Don't count your eggs before they hatch (imagine what is the most feared part of early game Ashod, now guess what's in that fort:evil:)

E/N blessed sacreds?

i'm afraid even you're sacreds don't last long when their armour falls off, yes i am at alteration 3 - 4 in 2 turns and with alteration 4 i can cast destruction to make that earth bless useless.

destruction + 100 lances = dead uber sacreds, you didn't think i didn't have a back up did you?

anyway yes the war is only young, but ashdod won't have an easy time this game,






BTW tien chi would like to buy 2 pairs of earth boots, anyone who can forge them just name the price.

[rabelais]

how do caves work exactly?

do I need darkvision to fight normally there?

are there connections to other caves not obvious from neighbor display, etc? How do they make corners less defensible, if not?


Thanks,

Rabe

[cleveland]

Rabe,

Caves are just like normal provinces except they have different populations & magic sites available only to them. They generally give you troops with darkvision.

No, you don't need darkvision to fight normally in a cave. I believe it's considered a bug, though. You need darkvision to fight normally in a Cave Fortress.

No, there are no non-obvious connections on this map. I had made a map and set each corner as an interconnected cave*; however, players preferred this map instead. This is just a normal map - the corners are highly defensible.

Cheers,
cleveland

*That map is called "Uncomfortable" and is available under the Maps/Mods subforum, if you're interested. It's also available on Llamaserver's map browser.

[alhorro]

Mictlan wtb flame helmet, earth boots, crystal coin. Payment in F/E/W gems.

[licker]

The pathetic nation of Man has declared war on Abysia, and if we weren't even more pathetic we'd just laugh at his laughable invasion. As it is though, it's not really all that laughable...

So we ask for nations non aligned with Man to consider well that if he should triumph over us he would own 3 capitols in a rather well defended position.

Man speaks of the Abysian research, but he doesn't speak of his 2 armies with more than 100 troops in each converging on our capitol. Further that with the fact that Abysian research has already been outpaced and will soon be passed by nations in surely stronger positions than ours.

This world is cramped, but allowing Man to continue his wonton conquests is surely not a wise course of action.

[cleveland]

This world is cramped, but allowing Man to continue his wonton conquests is surely not a wise course of action.

I'm honored; I don't think MA Man has ever achieved higher praise. :D

Vile foe: please buy a round of drinks for the family of your slain hero, on us. We have great respect for great warriors. I wish my Knights would display 1/10th his courage. :beer:

[Nikelaos]

Hurray, tests have found that destruction lasts on after the battle it was cast in, our tests on you are complete ashdod, rush us back at your pril and watch the armour of youre warriors fall in useless heaps - sheilds and all (bang bang cheap archers + bladewind). Your armies have no staying power now.

we warned you before, you shall not have an easy time with us, for once ashdod shall not just toss aside the nearest human nation like a dog with a rat.

Be warned again, the ants go marching and will reap desruction in they wake, for we are a nation, we are a unit, WE ARE ONE!!!

[hunt11]

Just remember it is not as permanent as you would like. I am curios though why are you making it out as if I was the aggressor? It was you who launched the invasion not me. The most aggressive thing I said was that you have not fought against my blessed giants yet.

[cleveland]

Wat happened?

[vfb]

Something happened?

[JimMorrison]

It did!

[Fakeymcfake]

HOLY COW STUFF.

Furthermore, I just noticed how many guys are in this game that are also in other games I'm playing.

[vfb]

A while ago, there was great gnashing of teeth and bellowing of bellows and all sorts of scary noises being made, in the neighborhood of C'tis. But cooler heads prevailed, and now winter is coming. C'tis begins to hibernate.

But we still read the papers, so please don't just tease us with your flashy headlines, or we won't be able to get to sleep. Details, please!

[cleveland]

*points to Hall of Fame*

[Fakeymcfake]

Ooooooh, yeah. I killed Wat. It was an awesome fight; my hydras (of all things) saved my butt. I guess that 14 MR really made a difference eh?

[vfb]

Ah, C'tis has heard tales of both these fearsome Hydras, and is guessing that Wat was a Gorgon. Anyway, thanks for the details.

We hope that the beloved Rappi does not meet a similar fate.

-- C'tis

[Juffos]

Wat the Mighty Gorgon chose to focus her gaze on the smaller heads of those Hydrae. An unwise decision :(

[JimMorrison]

Wat the Mighty Gorgon chose to focus her gaze on the smaller heads of those Hydrae. An unwise decision :(

Most Gorgons are attention whores, and she really needed the undivided attention of each and every head. It borders on OCD, I keep trying to get her to try counseling.....

[cleveland]

In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name. His name is Robert Paulson.

Farewell Shinuyama. : salute :

[Fakeymcfake]

Let it be known that Jotunhiem has no honour. In a sudden and unprovoked move the giants have turned upon their allies through sacred pact, the just nation of Pythium. All nations should be aware that these giants deal with smiles on their faces and knives in their hands and that any deals made with them are not worth the pages they are printed upon.

However, Pythium will fight on despite this betrayal, and calls for allies to wipe out these cretins who strike out at those who would be their friends.

[JimMorrison]

...All nations should be aware that these giants are completely running away with the game and must be stopped, whether they have honor or not...


>.>

[Fakeymcfake]

Hey, don't step on my rhetoric, I rarely get a good chance to be justifiably bombastic. Either way, point is made, Jotun is running away with it and are untrustworthy when it comes to making deals. Granted I feel somewhat personally betrayed at the moment but my fault for thinking I could leave my flank exposed. If there is a time to squash them let it be now rather than later.

[Juffos]

Pythium, you brutal murderer, slicer of innocent throats! All those beaautimus maenads, now dead by your hands, how much beauty have you removed from this world?

I am sure the giants of Jotunheim sensed this abrupt chance in the world's balance and are now moving in to restore it.

You have no other option but to leave my lands and defend yours.

[Fakeymcfake]

Ah I only invade your lands to avenge the deaths of the poor tiny folk of Shin, whom you brutally slew with your much bemoaned Maenads. I only wish that I had acted sooner so as to save a few of the tiny green men. As for Jotun's motivations for turning upon me, I am well aware that it was a much more material one rather than cosmic, as I'm sure you also know. In any case, I find your lands very welcoming, and despite your deviousness I think I'll be holding onto them for a time yet.

[DonCorazon]

Voice from beyond the grave from the one who can actually now be named (he is called Mike, the petrified ghost king):

No mercy for the evil Pangeans who flew their gorgon straight to Shinuyama and turned us all into statues before we got to summon a single Oni. So much for getting to try Shin out... :(

[Fakeymcfake]

I always wondered how does one petrify a ghost?

[rabelais]

Hey,

we jotuns have no endgame strat or experience and are just trying to keep the world angel free, and keep astral powers from getting 3 caps...as for my gold advantage... extra temples to counteract my stupid pretender choice is unlikely to make me a steamroller.

the 6 month old, the true Pantokrat calls.


Rabe

[vfb]

C'tis is saddened by the loss of the entire population of The Mirks. Intor Vadul decided to pay me a visit. Oh, poor lizards of The Mirks! You are all mindless plant beings now, how tragic.

[Quitti]

Since the forces of Mictlan decided to attack us, the Ermor, without even declaring end to their NAP (bear this in mind, those who are allied with mictlan), Ermor is now fighting a losing war against 4 other nations, and is being set AI this turn. Thanks for the fun game, and see you around in others :)

[alhorro]

Huh, you confirmed the read recipient for the message with nap cancellation, and Mictlan honestly waited 3 turns of NAP after the confirmation, despite your fate was absolutely clear much earlier — we had scouts in every your province and observed every your battle. Don't try to justify your failed diplomacy with your other neighbours.

[duncanshriek]

Agartha declares to be defeated by Atlantis.

Since Atlantis is twice as big as Agartha and obviously can concentrate its forces against us, no further joy is to be expected for us. We managed to make Atlantis rethink its strategy several times, but without help that times are over now.

We annouce to go AI in 2 turns, if no support against Atlantis comes into view.

[JimMorrison]

It has caused us great pain to attack another ancient people, but the die was cast. You fight like a lion, and we are proud to have had the opportunity to meet you in the field of battle.

Not sure what happened to you at the start, but if you had expanded a bit earlier at first, it might have made us think harder before invading. Better luck in the next one!

[Quitti]

Huh, you confirmed the read recipient for the message with nap cancellation, and Mictlan honestly waited 3 turns of NAP after the confirmation, despite your fate was absolutely clear much earlier — we had scouts in every your province and observed every your battle. Don't try to justify your failed diplomacy with your other neighbours.

Then I apologize, I remembered it was another of our neighbors who did that. Mictlan does honor his contracts afterall.

[vfb]

TC has staled twice and looks like it's going to stale again.

Abysia has staled once and looks like it's going to stale again, and I think I saw a post by licker in a different game thread saying he's on holiday from the 18th or 19th or something.

[BesucherXia]

TC has said in another thread that he cannot play dom these days.
Luckily his only enemy Ashdod is not seeking a counterattack either.

[vfb]

For how many days? He should probably have gotten a sub or gone AI, it's weird for the nation to just sit there and do nothing.

[Fakeymcfake]

Edit - reread front. Personally I think we should start the holiday delay now so that these guys don't miss anymore turns.

[vfb]

Oh, that sounds like a better idea. Seconded.

[BesucherXia]

For how many days? He should probably have gotten a sub or gone AI, it's weird for the nation to just sit there and do nothing.

Here is the link to his announcement:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41632

I am also for an immediate pause until next year.

[duncanshriek]

Concerning an earlier pause: I don't care, since I already announced to go AI. Didn't do that this turn though, but could easily make that my only action next year.

[Juffos]

The nation of Pangaea would like to let the world know that the false pretender of Arcoscephale is a nothing but a honourless coward who doesn't stand behind his words. Every neighbour of his should reconsider their relations with them for they are unscrupulous deal makers.

[cleveland]

Ah, too bad I didn't see all this before hosting (holiday travels of my own). Beginning the break early seems quite reasonable. The game is now postponed until 20:55 GMT on January 2nd. But I'll leave quickhost on until Dec 23rd, the original holiday start date, just in case everyone has the chance to get another turn in. If not, no big deal. Have a happy holiday! cleveland

[MadFrancis]

Sheesh ...

Thanks for ruining my domionions3-packed winter vacation Christmas. Stupid holidays ....

hey christmas, why don't you just go fu ... oh hey, presents!

[vfb]

EA Aby has not played, has 2 stales, and licker is not going to be back until Jan 5th:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=660679#post660679

Can we postpone hosting 3 more days? If not, can we please get someone to set Aby to AI, because he's being eaten up at the moment, and easy meals are no fun for anyone.

TC also has 3 stales and has not played, but I don't know if they are currently being eaten. Given that they are at war with Ashdod, I'd expect them to become a light snack soon enough, if they continue to stale. Does anyone know if Nikelaos managed to get his PC fixed?

[cleveland]

I'm inclined to postpone until Jan 6th, and advertise for subs 24hrs before hosting. Any objections/thoughts?

[Fakeymcfake]

I'd seek to get conformation that both Aby and TC are in the game right away and give them a couple days to respond, then put out notices for replacements by the 2nd at the latest if they don't respond. Always better to have an actual person playing than a bot.

[alhorro]

}:[
Don't you think the two weeks pause was more than enough either to do the turn or to find a sub? For one that is missing there's no spoiling a wedding. I'd vote for no more delays — if we can find a sub by the time — great, otherwise set the stalers to AI or let them continue staling.

[rabelais]

I'll be leaving for a week starting the 6th, I intend to have my laptop with me, but in light of the modern necessity of travel, and having delayed a game or two, in my time I think we can wait a couple of days for the stragglers.

But I suppose its up to cleveland, since he's got the mojo.

Rabe the Vague on his Strategy

[cleveland]

I know it's frustrating, but these delays are expected this time of year.

I've contacted both licker (of Abysia) and Nikelaos (of Tien Chi) via PM. They're both great players with embattled nations; I'd hate to see either set AI.

Since licker stated he'd be back on the 5th, I'll postpone hosting until 20:00 GMT on the 6th. If I don't get PM replies 24hrs prior to hosting, I'll advertise for subs.

Thanks for your patience, and Happy New Year!

[licker]

Well this is annoying.

My understanding was that there would be a long enough pause for me to not have missed any turns.

Since that didn't happen I will go AI as my position is now completely untenable.

I must have misread something somewhere, but no big deal really, my position was hopeless anyway.

[cleveland]

My understanding was that there would be a long enough pause for me to not have missed any turns.


licker,

The original holiday start date of Dec 23 was announced several months ago. I would certainly have accommodated any requests for an earlier start date; however, I don't recall ever receiving one. But the break did begin early: the game was halted immediately after another player noticed both you and TC were missing turns (in my deficiency as an admin, I wasn't monitoring the staling log).

Please accept my apologies for the annoyance, and my commendations on a well fought game.

Sincerely,
cleveland

--------------

Everyone,

I'm going to immediately advertise for a replacement for Tien Chi. If no replacement is found by the deadline, TC will be set AI. There will be no further delays.

For the record, Man & Abysia have been at peace for the past 6 (maybe 7?) turns. Man has not benefited from Abysia's absence in any way.

Cheers,
cleveland

[Juffos]

Pangaea would like to inform that Arcoscephale has voided our previous agreement of non-aggression without giving the agreed notice.

[chrispedersen]

To one and all: Hail. The new king of Arcocephale greets you.
And I would like it to be known that I had nothing to do with such a despicale action Pangaeia.

To all nations, please do communicate with me directly to inform me of my obligations. Pangaiea specifically, please let us speak directly on what has occured, and how to repair matters.

Best wishes to all.

Heironyius
Captain of the Golden Arc

[cleveland]

OK, we're back up and running! A few announcements:

1) stattis has graciously taken over command of Tien Chi.

2) chrispedersen has graciously taken over command of Arcoscephale. He has not yet played a turn, so cut him some slack if his predecessor decided to break a NAP.

3) Since it's the first turn back from a long break and we have some new faces, 24hrs is being added to give everyone a chance to get their bearings back.

[chrispedersen]

Hmmm... you know its evil and underhanded when you break a NAP.

Its evil, underhanded and incompetent when you can't profit from it!


I hear the pipes of Pan... I just haven't found them...Paging pan!

[cleveland]

Unfortunately, it will be necessary to delay the game yet again.

chrispedersen, who has my sincere appreciation for volunteering to take over Arcoscephale, can no longer take over the position.

If Arco weren't newly involved in a war with Pangaea, I'd be tempted to allow him to stale while a sub is found. But it's a strong nation, and I think a swift dispatch at the hands of Pangaea would be overly disruptive to the game.

Please accept my apologies for the delay. I will begin a sub-search immediately.

cleveland

[chrispedersen]

Unfortunately, it will be necessary to delay the game yet again.

chrispedersen, who has my sincere appreciation for volunteering to take over Arcoscephale, can no longer take over the position.

If Arco weren't newly involved in a war with Pangaea, I'd be tempted to allow him to stale while a sub is found. But it's a strong nation, and I think a swift dispatch at the hands of Pangaea would be overly disruptive to the game.

Please accept my apologies for the delay. I will begin a sub-search immediately.

cleveland

and please accept my apologies. Severe personal difficulties have forced me to curtail my dominions. Best wishes and apologies again to all.

[cleveland]

Great news! slayers_ai has answered the call to lead Arcoscephale!

So we're now totally back on track. When the turn hosts, we'll be back on 27hr quickhost.

Cheers,
cleveland

[vfb]

C'tis has 24 air gems we don't need. We'd like to trade 1-for-1 for earth, pm vfb (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=8915) if you are interested. We'll also trade for nature or pearls, but earth is preferred.

[rabelais]

the 27 hour limit, though MUCH better than a 24-hour limit is beginning to kick my ***, anyone else interested in 51 hours?

[JimMorrison]

the 27 hour limit, though MUCH better than a 24-hour limit is beginning to kick my ***, anyone else interested in 51 hours?

I'll buy that for $1!

I'm not really having any trouble atm, but I'm all for making sure no one stales and burns out on the game. Plus 24h (or 27h) turns always make me slightly uncomfortable..... as on the off chance I don't have the time to do the turn the second I get the email, there's a slight chance of a stale. :o But, everyone has that same risk, so I grab my cajonas and ride into the great unknown!

[cleveland]

A motion has been made & seconded to permanently increase the turn duration to 51hrs (quickhost).

Per the overly-complicated rules announced at the start of this game (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=652405&postcount=25):
" Quorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum) shall be 75% of ACTIVE players, and >50% vote wins. If the vote fails, no new vote can be held for at least 2 full turns. "

The remaining players must now vote to (A) Increase the timer to 51hrs, (B) Maintain the current 27hr timer, or (C) Abstain.

Please post your vote here on this thread.

There are 16 players remaining in this game, so the vote shall be valid if at least 12 players vote.

Voting will be open for 24hrs, ending at 05:00 GMT on Friday, Jan 16th. The game will be delayed during this time.

Questions?

[vfb]

The kingdom of C'tis is small, and takes little time to manage. But we have no objections to giving other nations more time to manage their huge, burdensome empires.

C'tis votes: (A) Increase the timer to 51hrs.

[alhorro]

I must be very bad dominions player, but I've never understood how it may take more than 30 minutes to make a turn even in lategame, unless you are micromanaging every single piece of gold and chaff. And even if you do, that 2% additional efficiency you get come with -50% of interest for me — it's not only extremely boring to wait for another 27 hours, but it also consumes significantly more time, cause I have to remember what the hell I was planning 2 days ago. And, as for me, it's much better to lose an interesting game, than to win a boring snail-speed one.
So my vote goes for (B). Btw, isn't it logical to delay the next turn for voting, not the current one?

[JimMorrison]

In the late game, when you have many territories, and MANY mages, and are scripting multiple large scale battles, potentially with a communion here or there. When you are examining enemy SCs to determine potential weak points, and trying to gear yours to specifically exploit your enemy, while leaving minimal vulnerabilities. When you are managing your finite gem income to get maximal effect, because with some gem types you are burning through a surplus that you need to plan for the depletion of, or you are saving some to snag large summons or a global.

Oh yeah, a very complicated turn simply cannot be done in 30 minutes, unless you are already accepting defeat.

Not that we are that late game, or that anyone is that large in this game - but some people just can't reliably sit down every single day to run Dominions turns, unless they're the 5 minute variety at the start.

[rabelais]

Just to clarify, its not that the empire is so large (though it is getting there) it's that my 7 month old is teething, and it's hard to find an hour free every day. if I have 2 days, that puts a square in the denominator of my staling function.


Rabe, ....who originally wrote demoninator... coincidence? :D

[JimMorrison]

I don't think that 2 is the square of 1. :o

[BesucherXia]

Ulm votes for (A).
In SP I can finish dozens of turns within hours. But that's because I feel no pressure from the AIs. As for MP, there is always much more to think: which item to forge? which spell is priority? Enter a new path, but how? -Gambling for 10% chance? aim at summons? empowerment? There is a war between your neighbors, who should be aided and in which way?...

Though in this game I have very little objects to manage, I think I can understand why so many people need long time to finish his turn at this phase.

[cleveland]

Btw, isn't it logical to delay the next turn for voting, not the current one?

I didn't want anyone's vote to be influenced by the current turn's time crunch. Objectivity, and whatnot.

As the admin, I will (C) Abstain. My vote will count toward quorum, but will not otherwise effect the outcome; only (A) and (B) votes will be considered in the final calculation.

[MadFrancis]

I vote for A.

[slayers_ai]

Hi everybody, I vote for A:)

[cleveland]

OK, it's 5:00:00 GMT, voting is closed. Here's the tally:

rabelais - A
JimMorrison - A
vfb - A
alhorro - B
BesucherXia - A
cleveland - C
MadFrancis - A
slayers_ai - A

With only 8 votes cast, we did not have quorum (12 needed). The game timer extension therefore fails; we'll continue on 27hr quickhost.

The issue can be raised again on turn 37.

[JimMorrison]

I am going to forward the motion that despite the failure of this vote, that we convene the council to determine whether or not turn 37 is a realistic point to expect to be able to manage daily turns. >.>

[vfb]

Why would we need 12 yes's to approve the new schedule anyway? There are only 16 humans left. I vote that AI's don't get to vote. Also, it would have been a good idea to send out an admin email that we were holding a vote, for the players who are not reading the boards every day.

And rabelais, don't forget you can ask for an extension under extenuating circumstances, such as children teething on your keyboard.

[qio]

I rarely read these boards, so I missed this entire voting thing. I really do not have any opinion on the matter. However, if no-one objects to extending the turn times to 51h, I am in favor.

I'll repeat myself:
I vote in favor of turn extension to 51h in any further voting IF there are no players that object to an extension.

As you can also deduce from above. If you send a PM to this forum, I probably won't read it within 48h. In game messages work very well.

[cleveland]

Why would we need 12 yes's to approve the new schedule anyway?
It's not that we'd need 12 yes's, we'd need at least 12 votes for it to be valid. Of the votes cast, only 50% would have to be yes's. This is to prevent action from happening if only like 3 people vote.[/quote]

Also, it would have been a good idea to send out an admin email that we were holding a vote, for the players who are not reading the boards every day.
Yes, that would have been an excellent idea. I apologize for not thinking of it.

...IF there are no players that object to an extension
alhorro did object to the extension.

---------

How's this sound: Let's plan on another vote during Turn 37, and in the mean time, I will wield my Supreme Executive Authority to extend the timer to 51hrs. That way, everyone can get a feel for the extended timer, and make an informed decision. Sound equitable?

[vfb]

Thanks for the explanation Cleveland! But I had to go look at wikipedia anyway, because I missed your link the first time around.

Anyway, I'm sure rabelais' baby will enjoy the extra hours of having his dad's fingers over the weekend, due to your Supreme Executive Authority-wielding. :D


P.S. No apologies necessary, your fair and balanced adminning is much appreciated! :)

[vfb]

Oh ... it's turn 37 already, how did that happen. Anyway, are we going to vote again? I suppose the vote will have to be during turn 38. Could we have another 51hr turn when the game hosts please, so everyone has time to vote?

[rabelais]

both I and my son Zev vote yea, on 51 hour turns.

[vfb]

C'tis pays its respects to those nations who sent challengers to the Arena this month.

A great lizards chorus was heard singing in the swamps this month:

Da da DAAAAA da da DAAAAA da da DAAAA da da DAAA da da da da da da da da DAAAAA!

[cleveland]

Were they graduating? :)

I'm surprised C'tis didn't send one of his Tartarians. No worries; I'm sure we'll all get to see them soon enough. :eek:

-----------

OK, the vote is now on...rather coincidental, considering what's going on in the US today. Don't forget!

[alhorro]

Holy broken smoking mirror... 30 virgins... wasted on a deathmatch?! It was pain to watch it. Better sell your virgins to us — we are always interested in blood.

[Otherling]

I could probably use more time, even if it does look like my empire is running short on that particular resource.

I vote yes on extending to 51 hours.

[qio]

...IF there are no players that object to an extension
alhorro did object to the extension.


Sure. However, as long as you remember that I have given a statement to this effect, in any further votes conducted (or what-have-you) I am not just obstaining. As far as one player being against the extension, there are some myriad possibilities that exist.

1) He doesn't vote. 2) He changes his mind.

yada.. yada..

[Mithras]

Er don't know if we're still voting but I'll abstain on any turn time related vote.

[vfb]

There's only 15 people left, 75% of which is 11.25, and Zeb gets .25, right?

With the spirit of Florida guiding me, I think the current tally is:

1 rabelais - A
2 JimMorrison - A
3 vfb - A
4 alhorro - B
5 BesucherXia - A
6 cleveland - C
7 MadFrancis - A
8 slayers_ai - A
9 Otherling - A
10 Mithras - C
11 qio - C
11.25 Zeb - A

[BesucherXia]

Having received the reminding letter of voting, but haven't we already enough participants?

We have right now only 15 active players inculding those hopeless ones:

Arcoscephale - slayers_ai
Atlantis - JimMorrison
Caelum - qio
C'tis - vfb
Jotunheim - rabelais
Machaka - Otherling
Man - cleveland
Mictlan - alhorro
Oceania - Mithras
Pangaea - Juffos
Pythium - Fakeymcfake
R'lyeh - MadFrancis
T'ien Ch'i - statttis
Ulm - BesucherXia
Vanheim - Valerius

That means, 15*0.75=11.25 votes is the right threshold, not 12.

edit:
Hmmm...... So slow is my typing...

[cleveland]

Egads! You're both right...I didn't check the list for newly lost soldiers.

@ 15 players, quorum is11.25 votes, and rabelais's son indeed gets 0.25 votes...so it counts!

Motion passes, game is now on a 51hr timer!

Phew. Definitely will decrease the quorum requirement to 50% in future games.

[vfb]

The marshes of C'tis overflow with water gems, and we would be pleased to trade these away for nature gems.

Please PM vfb (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=8915) with your offers.

-- Rappi, God of the Swamps

[cleveland]

Avalon Records is pleased to announce it has just signed pop superstar Bogus!

Bogus, lead singer of "Bogus and His Band of Merry Adventurers," joined Avalon Records after intense negotiations, which ultimately culminated in hand-to-hand combat.

Fellow bandmates, shocked that Bogus would sell-out to the (nation of) Man, refused to join him in the contract, on grounds that, "It's not about the money, it's about the music and pillaging. Except for the money we get from pillaging."

In the end, Bogus was only able to convince Fang, the group's Bass Guitarist and Archer, to join him. He consequently slew the remaining bandmembers.

Bogus, whose discography includes such classics as "I Came, I Saw, I Conquered, I Stood Around for No Reason," has already begun recording his next hit single, a love ballad titled "Girl, I'm Gonna Rescue You (From a Blood Slave Dungeon)." Look for it in fine stores everywhere!

-------------

Though it would be awesome to steal Fang's "Fire Magic Users" command, the nation of Man does not need to resort such underhanded tactics to achieve victory. Below, a screenshot of good-ol' Fang, after a healthy wholloping with the nerf-bat:

7608

-Man

[vfb]

C'tis is still interested in trading for nature gems. I'll trade water or pearls.

Please PM vfb (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=8915) with your offers.

-- Rappi, God of the Swamps

[cleveland]

I assume Jotunheim's computer is still on the fritz, and postponed hosting by 12hrs accordingly. Will that be enough time Rabe?

[cleveland]

Poor Jotunheim. So many provinces, so little time, no computer.

Hosting postponed by 1 day to give him a chance to put in a good turn.

Speaking of which, shouldn't we all try to kill him sometime soon? :D

[vfb]

No no no ... Mictlan is the real threat! They have turkeys, you know, and one of them slew my S2 tartarian last month. Now all my other tartarians are taking the month off for his funeral.

[rabelais]

I still have no endgame strat and only a few crappy artifacts... all the boosters + the hammer were long gone. (not to mention illearth (grrr)) ...besides, due to the oddities of the map its hard to get to one another. I suspect the game will go on forever. Now to try to get my turn done before my wife honeydews me again.


Rabe