Elemental/Dom 3 comparison on the Elemental forums

[sector24]

http://forums.elementalgame.com/330416

Mostly internet tough guys sparring on the merits of Dom 3, but might be worth a read if you're interested.

[Epaminondas]

http://forums.elementalgame.com/330416

Mostly internet tough guys sparring on the merits of Dom 3, but might be worth a read if you're interested.

I was going to bump up the Elemental thread on this forum, as we don't need 2 threads on a different game, but you beat me to it...

Wait, I will do it anyways.

[Endoperez]

I totally agree with what Luckmann wrote in their side:
The main, most important difference, is that Dominions 3 is here now. Elemental is 16-odd months away, at least. :D

[Humakty]

Twas fun to read : I'm an ex player of TOAW, and those guys have no idea of how much it is pleasant to have real graphics in a wargame...

[HoneyBadger]

The only time I really care about graphics in a game is for the horror survival genre. And that's got more to do with how they're used, than what level they're performing at.

Besides, ever since the day I updated my GalCiv2, and it started bluescreening constantly, I haven't had much faith in Stardock. I don't even like their forums--they've got nothing on this one, even in terms of ease of use.

[licker]

Why beat this horse in its own thread?

Whatever, there are some accurate 'complaints' about dom3 SP, no matter if the person expressing them was doing so in a perhaps overly aggressive manner.

Further that with the fact that the gfx and sound (sound? never use it...) are quite poor in comparison to most other products from the same time frame. And spare me the defense of this, I know it already, and I don't care about the gfx or sound anyway, but you have to admit that it is a turn off for some people.

And I'll leave it at that, no need to tell me about 'those people' or why gfx and sound don't matter, or that SP is the bastard step child of JK and KO...

[Endoperez]

I think the graphics discussion in the thread out there got out of hand due to the terms used. Small sprites aren't as good looking as well-done 3d-graphics, so Dominions could be said to use "ugly sprite graphics". On the other hand, the new sprites are very good for their size, so it can also be said that Dominions "doesn't have ugly sprites".

They suggested hand-drawn Dominions 3 battlefield. The battlefield has to be 3D to allow the player to go look at the rear units, but now that they've mentioned it I'd like to see what it could look like.

[HoneyBadger]

I agree with you about the sound, actually. I think it could be overall improved, and I wish there was more music variety included with the game (I like what we get, I just wish we had more, atleast more from the same artists). But as you say, it's hardly a major issue.

The graphics, atleast as far as sprites are concerned, are a moot point. If they were more advanced, there would be more problems, and less mod material. The maps are already of top quality, and I always liked the 3-D battlefields. I'd kill for better skins, though, and I wish more people who know how to do that, would make some good ones for the game.

I'd really like to have more role-playing aspects in the game, especially for the SP, and I think the AI we do have, could atleast be better harnessed, and address issues like wasting gems (never allow it to use gems, unless told to), casting useless or detrimental spells (set up a personalizeable list of spells that it should never cast, unless told to), and atleast building smart Pretenders, and even maybe some basic, generic SCs (forge amulets of magic resistance, forge shields if no shields are present, forge rings of regeneration if SC has 30+ Hp). Things that could be programmed *around* the AI, rather than asking it to make it's own decisions.

[Epaminondas]

I don't even like their forums--they've got nothing on this one, even in terms of ease of use.

You are certainly right about this one. I tried to register several times, and I have failed--though I used to attribute this entirely on the incapacity of my mind or my hardware :)

[HoneyBadger]

I had to use a very, very old screen name of mine to get in. Fortunately, I had one, but I had no success making a new one.

[Sombre]

The sounds and graphics of dom3 are bad. End of story. They're mid 1990s level, if that.

However it doesn't take much away from the game, which is fantastic. It also makes modding a lot easier and more effective. Would the game be better if it was a graphical powerhouse? Hell yes. But that's pie in the sky.

[krpeters]

Well, that was an entertaining flamewar to read...

The critic of Dom3 did raise a number of good points. But he failed pretty badly on the issue of combat resolution. The reason it is so important that dominions uses AI battle resolution is because it would be painfully tedious to use manual resolution. This is precisely why I don't play RTS games, and why I gave up on MOO3. I got sick of manually herding my units around.

It's a pity the AI sucks it. Then again, it doesn't suck nearly as much as the AI in RTS games and MOO3... probably precisely because you're so dependant on it that the developers have been forced to improve it.

[licker]

You could autoresolve battles in MoO3 you know.

Honestly that's the 'fairest' way to play alot of those kinds of games SP, since you don't get a potentially massive advantage on the AI, though the MoO3 tactical AI wasn't terrible, it just lacked some tools to make it easier for you to actually manage your fleets.

[Zeldor]

There are surely some problems with Dom3 and there is no reason to deny it there:
- graphics are really bad [even if they may be climatic], of course better than Dom2 or Dom1
- sound? huh, just try to listen to illithid mind blasts or trampling!
- AI - extremely bad, even considering in what environment it exists
- balance - there are huge problems with it in vanilla
- UI - also really bad, also could be much better even with same tools

There are many great things about Dom3 [MP mostly], but it has huge amount of flaws. Game would be surely better with one age, but better balanced, with good AI, normal map editor etc, but it's not correlated. And Illwinter is not a normal company. And on top of that comes Shrapnel, which can be described best with its ads [everyone knows which].

P.S. Maybe we should buy Illwinter and fund Dom4? :)

[JimMorrison]

And on top of that comes Shrapnel, which can be described best with its ads [everyone knows which].

P.S. Maybe we should buy Illwinter and fund Dom4? :)


Wait, I'm confused..... are you saying that I want to sleep with Shrapnel, but neither of us wants a serious relationship....?

I'm conflicted, I never wanted to sleep with an entire company before.... well, not since 3Dfx anyways.....


I will sell all of my worldly possessions and fly to Sweden if such a simple thing as a dedicated gopher speeds Dom4 along to it's eventual creation. ;)

[lch]

And Illwinter is not a normal company.
It's a Handelsbolag.

P.S. Maybe we should buy Illwinter and fund Dom4? :)
aka "kidnap JK and chain him to the radiator"?

[JimMorrison]

aka "kidnap JK and chain him to the radiator"?

I'm pretty sure that KO already did so.

Oh wait, was I not supposed to blurt that out? :eek:

[MaxWilson]

Dom3 is a great game with flaws, yes... which makes me want to know more about the "current project" that KO is always hinting at.

-Max

[HoneyBadger]

From what I gathered in the recent sorta-announcement, apparently Kristoffer has kidnapped a *girl* programmer, and will be chaining her up next to JK. Those kooky Swedes...

[sector24]

From what I gathered in the recent sorta-announcement, apparently Kristoffer has kidnapped a *girl* programmer, ...

Obviously false, as such things are the stuff of myth and legend.

[Zeldor]

I think it was an intern artist girl, she made Bogarus.

[HoneyBadger]

Ok, you've got me there, Sector24. Perhaps he's just constructing some sort of girl-robot.

[Illuminated One]

But there are girl programmers. I even know one ... from the internet. :D
Ok, I know one from real life, too.