Transformation questions

[Illuminated One]

Ok, so I'm playing around with transformation.

You can change only to normal animals with it, right?
So changing into say a dragon is impossible?

If you get one of the smaller animals like a dragonfly is your mind always damaged? And can that damage be healed or is it just that the brain is to small to contain a human mind?

[Nikelaos]

Ok, so I'm playing around with transformation.

You can change only to normal animals with it, right?
So changing into say a dragon is impossible?

If you get one of the smaller animals like a dragonfly is your mind always damaged? And can that damage be healed or is it just that the brain is to small to contain a human mind?

IIRC you can change into any unit with an animal tag, dragons don't have this tag but i have once been turned into a fire drake which is sorta close if mighty lesser.

occaisionally you're caster may turn into a foul spawn and becom feeble minded, this affliction can be healed like any other.

[Endoperez]

I think it's just a list of several many animal forms, not all beings with an animal tag. You won't get monkey forms, as an example (except Winged Monkey).

[Trumanator]

The greater question as far as I'm concerned is is it worth it?

[Tyrant]

Some of the mythological foul-spawn types are on the list for sure- i remember Chimeras, and i think Coakatrice as well. You can heal the feeble mind affliction if that happens, but it's difficult.

Is it worth it? Not in a general sense, but perhaps situationally. It's what i call a "toolkit spell." MA Man, for instance, might want to roll the dice on a few Crones to try to get some mages that have more hit point or a faster move rate. I've also heard people talk about using it on an immobile pretender chassis.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive found some of the changes to be very useful.
Particularly when I change the Naiads who cannot leave their home province.

Changing a weak mage into a better armored unit that can lead more troops and still does the same magic is rarely a waste as far as I am concerned.

[Illuminated One]

Yeah, that was a bit along my thinking. If you have strong but vulnerable mages and the enemy has fliers why not have a mage in bear form?
And although it's probably a waste of gems I have the mad idea to make the most frightening dragonfly ever. :D

What does the winged monkey you get have?
Is it the same as in the spell winged monkeys?

[Dectilon]

Also, some underwater mages that get their magic nerfed when ashore regains their full power when transformed. The only problem is if you're using boosters other than rings and the like : /

[Endoperez]

What does the winged monkey you get have?
Is it the same as in the spell winged monkeys?

Yes. It has full or almost full stats IIRC, so it's one of the better results. It's small and very weak, though.

[Nikelaos]

IIRC it also gives you a 'young' version of the animal so nature mages with old age could make good use of it. You could perhaps use it as a way to avoid upkeep costs aswell though it is costy on the gems.

[Gregstrom]

IIRC the possible results of transformation depend on the terrain you cast the spell in. I think Wastes are one of the better options for casting the spell.

[thejeff]

It's really nice for TreeLords, as for the immobile pretenders.
Mobility and I think you may be able to summon the TreeLord again?

[Tifone]

Is there the chance to have your mage become something really tough?

[Illuminated One]

I think not.
You can get a bit better stats out of it but not enough to place the mage at the frontline. And you loose all slots except two misc slots, so you are very limited when building something out of it.

However I think this spell is rather good for human mages:
If you have no intention or not the capability to really equip your mages it is a nice alternative to giving them shields or armor and some animal forms are probably an even better defense when someone casts earthquake or similar spells - additionally the enemy will not get hold of items when you loose.

Another point is that you most of the time get very good movement. Forrest Survival, Mountain Survival, sometimes even Flying or Stealth. Now your mapmove 1 mages can keep up with your armies, are upkeep-free, and not as easy to take down. I think that's really worth 3 nature gems.

[Endoperez]

You may get something big, and/or something with 30+ hp, but most tough forms lack slots. Bears, Great Eagles and similar are about as tough as they come, apart from some big monsters from Crossbreeding.

[Gandalf Parker]

Its useful in getting something tougher, more mobile, more leadership..
but not something REALLY tough.

[Tifone]

Yeah, I was thinking bout something on the line of the Diablo druids (becoming those mighty bears) but i feared this was not the case :o

[cleveland]

But remember, your animal will have N magic (at least)

An animal with a Lucky Pendant & (Barkskin)(Personal Regeneration)(Elemental Fortitude)(attack)(Poison Touch)Attack Closest will definitely be tougher than whatever feeble old mage you used to have. :)

[Tifone]

Yeah, but it will be 5 astral pearls for the pendant, +8 nature gems for the transformation, +1 or 2 N gems x combat (I'd say) not to fatigue too much for those buffs, + the 20% risk of having an "at least" N3 mage feebleminded or dead and the risk of having him become something of little worth... :(

Your idea is nice :) but seem expensive and risky for the result... Being Alt 7, this spell seems a bit underpowered to me...

PS: is there a chance of becoming a Mammoth? ;)

[Gandalf Parker]

Probably too expensive for MP. Especially on smaller maps.
But not too expesive for some fun role playing in a solo game. :)

[Tifone]

Yep, but the risk is still very high. Why 20% btw? I understand the trouble of playing with Astral and Blood powers (horror marks, curses), after all you disturb immensely superior powers... but Nature? Trying to become a -normal- animal after 7 levels of research in alteration of the bodies, kills or feebleminds 1 out of 5 expert nature mages? That's a thing RPGs' druids do all the day... :p

[cleveland]

From an earlier discussion on transformation (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=619501&postcount=11). I'd taken turmoil/death/cold, so my income was crap. Once I'd finished most of the research, I used it extensively:

In CBM it's only 3N, and at that price, I found it extremely cost effective for my LA Pangaea Pans & Panic Apostates (330 & 320 gold, respectively; neither are sacred).

The spell turned 22 gold/turn units into 0 gold/turn animals. The major drawbacks are the chance of feeblemind (I guesstimate that's around 10-15%) and the loss of slots (most of the animals only have misc slots). However, I did once get a flying, fire-breathing chimera that could self-cast Invulnerability & Personal Regeneration; another time, I got a Winged Monkey with full slots. More typically, you get various animals with interesting abilities (like mountain-survival cave drakes, flying wyverns, or stealthy moose).

Plus, when your unit becomes feebleminded, it always transforms into a Foul Spawn of some variety, which can be not-so-terrible...

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3719/foulslk8.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foulslk8.jpg)

Besides, what could be more fantastic than cutting off your opponent's only path of retreat with a sneaky, rampaging moose? :)

[Tifone]

Lol, nice analysis :)

Manual states the chance of things going wrong is 20%. While becoming a b4d4ss foulspawn like that is funny, death is surely not :(

[Illuminated One]

Death happens only very rarely.
Becoming feebleminded isn't that bad if you can heal which shouldn't be too big a problem for a nature power.

[Zeldor]

I think it should cost 2-5 gems so it would be worth the risk for N mages.

[Tifone]

In CBM it is already repriced :)

[militarist]

Tried transformation on immobile pretender (FoB) as was mentiined by someone, no transformation happened, though gems on spellcasting were spent. Tried several times So this idea probably doesn't work with pretenders.

[Stavis_L]

Tried transformation on immobile pretender (FoB) as was mentiined by someone, no transformation happened, though gems on spellcasting were spent. Tried several times So this idea probably doesn't work with pretenders.

No idea whether it excludes pretenders, but it excludes lifeless/undead as valid targets (so you can't e.g. use it on a Tartarian with N paths to avoid them smashing your temple.) The Fountain of Blood is lifeless.

[militarist]

I think fountains/statue are the only type of pretenders that would worth to transform if it was possible on the stage of the game when it can be cast.

[chrispedersen]

Its my impression that pretenders are immune. But its also my impression that if they become a troll, it then works.

way to many hours playing this game.

[Apsophos]

First time I ever try Transformation, my treelord becomes a humanoid foulspawn. Now I've got a treelord wielding a treelord staff, great, what use is there for a N8 mage on the battlefield?

[rdonj]

Well, you could get a pretty epic storm of thorns going....

[Tryfan]

If you have a thistle mace equipped, what happens to it after transforming to animal (or dying)? Lost? Back to lab?

[WingedDog]

Dying - lost, animal - back to lab.

[August]

I feel like this could be used by some nations without a ton of astral pearls incoming for a lategame, or midgame gambit, round of wishing for the apocalypse. Especially doable and useful for Pangea with their expensive, non sacred mages and likely glut of nature gems.

[August]

*for surviving a a round of wishing for armageddon

Due to the lack of upkeep cost

Also works well for some death nations using twiceborn, if somewhat more expensively and complicatedly.

[Soyweiser]

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Transformation contains what we know about the spell. It is a fun spell imho, sadly it doesn't ahve that much utility due to the high chance of death/feeblemind.