Lost in Time and Space?

[Grottnikk]

Got a message one turn that my pretender had become "Lost in Space". Aside from a really bad 1960's TV show, I have no idea what the hell this means. It's been several turns now, and my pretender has not returned from her 3 hour tour, and I'm thinking things have progressed beyond the "danger Will Robinson!" stage.
Anyone have any tips? I'm playing EA Tir na n'Og, and my pretender had all 10's before she got black-holed, as I like to call it.

[Zeldor]

Haha! Well, probably you had Boots of Planes on. You can consider your pretender dead. He can appear anytime anywhere, in any province on the map. But it can be 30 turns, or 100. Or never.

[Humakty]

You are given a nifty god, and you loOse it ?!!!
Be ensured the guarantee won't work on this one !

I leave to our great wisemen the honor to help you, as my memory is uncertain on this one.

[Grottnikk]

well aint that a ***** :)

oh well, if she pops up somewhere and gets herself whacked, at least then I can summon her back home. What's the chance per turn of her popping back into this dimension? Anyone know? Same as the chance of going poof in the first place?

****EDIT****

Just alt-tabbed out to post a reply and when I go back in she's there safe and not-very sound. She's back in this dimension, but she is now officially crazier than a ****-house rat, with an insanity level of 20. Yes, you read that right. TWENTY! Anyone know any good therapist units in EA Dominions?
Seriously though, any way to cure insanity?

[Zeldor]

No idea really. It can really be just few turns or over 30 [I lost my guys once that I put Boots on for the first time and he never got back in that game].

[archaeolept]

hmm, I'm not sure about it being boots of the planes - there's nothing in its description indicating getting lost in time and space. instead, it horror marks you.

The dimensional rod, otoh, does say you run the risk of being lost in time and space, though I haven't ever seen this. I'm not sure why you would equip a super pretender with it; unless it was when first trying to get to Wish.

No idea how long it takes to come back, on average.

edit: no way to cure insanity, or remove curses, or reduce horror marking :)

The dimensional rod does cause insanity, so it sounds to me that that's what's going on, and you just haven't noticed the insanity icon before. Load up an old turn, if you have one, and check.

[Zeldor]

archae:

I am 100% sure Boots of Planes have the chance for being lost in time in space. I think it's about 1-2%.

[archaeolept]

it would make sense, well enough, just that I haven't ever seen it (and have used the boots more than I have the rod), and it isn't explicitly in the description text, while it is for the rod.

[lch]

If you're banished to Cocytos or Inferno or happen to end up there in some other way, or if you're getting lost in the Void, your unit becomes "lost in time and space". AFAIK you are being randomly attacked by enemies, and you have a chance to break free every turn, though I'm not sure right now what the roll looks like. If you manage to stay alive and break free, you re-appear in a random province, which counts like normal movement. (in enemy territory, you attack, you can drown in the sea etc.) The game does have special provinces and battle conditions for these three provinces, but somehow you can never see the fights appearing in them, which probably was a decision later on.

[Sombre]

I'd say he had boots of the planes on, not the rod, since he was told 'you probably have boots of the planes on' and didn't respond 'nope'.

It would make sense for a unit returning from some sort of void to have insanity. They looked further and deeper and it looked right back.

[Johan K]

The game does have special provinces and battle conditions for these three provinces, but somehow you can never see the fights appearing in them, which probably was a decision later on.

What?? Are you sure you don't get to see them? That is not intended.

[Grottnikk]

It was the damned boots. I'm putting those things in a nice dark corner of my vault and locking the door. Or, I could give them to someone I don't like...

Thanks for all the help, guys. That's one thing I like I about this forum, very nice community. :up:

[Endoperez]

Manual mentions that Boots of the Planes can cause this.

Nice to see Johan active on the boards. :D

[chrispedersen]

Playing Ryallah I have often gotten lost in Time and Space.
It usually doens't take that long to come back.

The Tomb of Infernal Power boosts your chances of coming back from the Inferno - I surmise there might be other items that boost your chances of coming back, as I always seem to come back in 8-12 turns.

I wonder if you spread dominion frm there...

Hmm that would be interesting - check your hit points .. that would tell you of the dominion status of inferno.

[MaxWilson]

R'lyeh is pronounced "rull-yeh," not Ryallah.

-Max

[chrispedersen]

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
=)

[Vanslime]

R'lyeh is pronounced "rull-yeh," not Ryallah.

-Max

You could have told us so... earlier.

... get it? Earlier? R'lyeh?

...I'll be going now...

[Lingchih]

The game does have special provinces and battle conditions for these three provinces, but somehow you can never see the fights appearing in them, which probably was a decision later on.

What?? Are you sure you don't get to see them? That is not intended.

I'm pretty sure you can see the fight if they pop back into an enemy prov. I used to play a lot of R'lyeh and seem to recall witnessing a few of those laughable fights.

[JimMorrison]

The game does have special provinces and battle conditions for these three provinces, but somehow you can never see the fights appearing in them, which probably was a decision later on.

What?? Are you sure you don't get to see them? That is not intended.

I'm pretty sure you can see the fight if they pop back into an enemy prov. I used to play a lot of R'lyeh and seem to recall witnessing a few of those laughable fights.

Nono, you will always see the battle that happens when they pop back into "reality", however the issue is that you never see battles taking place INSIDE of The Void, Kokytos, or Inferno.

I for one am stoked that Johan is troubled by this, and if it is fixed in a patch, I will send many Starspawn (blues, of course!) through the Void Gate, so I can see what happens. :D

[Kristoffer O]

You are supposed to fight in disco light. IIRC there was a screenshot of this occurence sometime.

[vfb]

One of the nasty things about non-R'lyeh units becoming lost in time and space is that when the return, they land in a random province. Any random province, including water. So if your god is wandering around up there, when he comes back he might splash down in the middle of the ocean, and if he can't breathe underwater, well ... at least you can call him back now.

Also in addition to the insanity, you've got a chance of +1S. Does anyone know if you can get this if you have no astral? It would kind of make you a little vulnerable to Magic Duels.

20 insanity is not so bad, you still get to tell him what to do 80% of the time.

[vfb]

You are supposed to fight in disco light. IIRC there was a screenshot of this occurence sometime.

I thought that was from a Dreams of R'lyeh battle.

[vfb]

If you're banished to Cocytos or Inferno or happen to end up there in some other way, or if you're getting lost in the Void, your unit becomes "lost in time and space". AFAIK you are being randomly attacked by enemies, and you have a chance to break free every turn, though I'm not sure right now what the roll looks like. If you manage to stay alive and break free, you re-appear in a random province, which counts like normal movement. (in enemy territory, you attack, you can drown in the sea etc.) The game does have special provinces and battle conditions for these three provinces, but somehow you can never see the fights appearing in them, which probably was a decision later on.

I've always just had my units pop out of the void or hell, and never seen any battles there. I think all my units eventually came back, they never just died there.

[JimMorrison]

I've always just had my units pop out of the void or hell, and never seen any battles there. I think all my units eventually came back, they never just died there.

You know, when you say you -think- one thing, and then state -never- the obvious, it comes off a bit misleading. ;)

I'm pretty certain that in all of the games that I played, I've won/quit some with commanders still "Lost in Time and Space". I'm not sure that there is any way to know if they're dead, other than a pretender or a prophet. I've noticed that less powerful beings (ie- weaker than a Tart or a pretender) often come back with afflictions, which could imply combat of some kind.

[vfb]

Okay, how's this?

My units have never died when lost in time and space (I think).

:)

But I'm less certain now, since you say yours came back with new afflictions.

Oh, wait: My units nearly always are scripted for returning (the lost in time and space ones). And as I remember, they either land in an enemy province with 2 pearls left and cast returning, or land in a province of mine and don't use the pearls.

Now ... was this before or after I started giving my void gate guys 4 pearls instead of 2? I've got no idea.

But if they were in combat while lost, they should show up in my capitol with no pearls, instead of in an enemy province. Unless Returning doesn't work in the lost in time and space combats.

[JimMorrison]

But if they were in combat while lost, they should show up in my capitol with no pearls, instead of in an enemy province. Unless Returning doesn't work in the lost in time and space combats.

Now THAT is a very good point. I am completely confused now, because even Johan seems to think battles occur in these places. It's a grand mystery.

[Grottnikk]

Hey, I just had an idea... Could I somehow wish for less insanity? Just curious :) Or perhaps just say "sanity" when typing in the wish?

Oh, and what happens if you put in something for a wish and the game doesn't have an answer for it? You don't blow up, do you? :)

[archaeolept]

sometimes... ;)

usually just nothing happens. other than having wasted 100 pearls :)

[JimMorrison]

sometimes... ;)

usually just nothing happens. other than having wasted 100 pearls :)

Nope, it won't finalize the command, it says - "You cannot Wish for that.". Then you get to try to issue orders again.

[archaeolept]

oh yeah... been a long time since i've wished for something you can't wish for :)

[MaxWilson]

I for one am stoked that Johan is troubled by this, and if it is fixed in a patch, I will send many Starspawn (blues, of course!) through the Void Gate, so I can see what happens. :D

And I will start using Claws of Cocytus. And enjoying it when someone uses it on me. I love watching arena fights, for instance.

-Max

[lch]

What?? Are you sure you don't get to see them? That is not intended.

I'm pretty sure you can see the fight if they pop back into an enemy prov. I used to play a lot of R'lyeh and seem to recall witnessing a few of those laughable fights.

Nono, you will always see the battle that happens when they pop back into "reality", however the issue is that you never see battles taking place INSIDE of The Void, Kokytos, or Inferno.
Exactly. The battles do take place during hosting, and can be inspected in the debug log, I think, but the battle reports don't appear in the player messages and can't be seen. I only saw fights in the three special provinces and their special battle conditions (the disco lights are nice) by finding out about the Debug Console.

[lch]

Just alt-tabbed out to post a reply and when I go back in she's there safe and not-very sound. She's back in this dimension, but she is now officially crazier than a ****-house rat, with an insanity level of 20. Yes, you read that right. TWENTY! Anyone know any good therapist units in EA Dominions?
Seriously though, any way to cure insanity?
There is no way at all in the game to cure insanity, no.

[MaxWilson]

Exactly. The battles do take place during hosting, and can be inspected in the debug log, I think, but the battle reports don't appear in the player messages and can't be seen. I only saw fights in the three special provinces and their special battle conditions (the disco lights are nice) by finding out about the Debug Console.

??? Is that a mod? Or some secret beta-tester thing? I would LOVE to be able to watch battles without having spies present, in my SP games.

-Max

[Sombre]

He means the log file you get when you turn the -d -dd or -ddd switch on the command line.

[thejeff]

The Debug Console sounds like something else. At least I can't see disco lights in my log file. :)

[lch]

Yes, the host is able to generate log files for all the battles that happen in a turn, and the players can see the same debug info if they look at the battle report with debugging turned on. But you can't watch battles as a player that you don't have battle reports for.

In SP gaming, since you're the host, you can see the battles happening in the log files, but that's not really very useful to understand what happened. The proposed Watcher nation mod which nobody so far bothered to complete would allow to see them. Or if you can, just cast the "Eyes of God" global.

The Debug Console thing that I wrote about is a developer tool built into Dom3. It features a basic battle simulator, which isn't terribly useful, just for testing out abilities and weapons on multiple units.

[lch]

Attached is a screenshot what a battle in the Void would look like. There are colored glowing spheres, or blobs, which keep growing until they burst and vanish into dust. The units are fighting under the special battle condition "Dimension Overload" which halves their Att, Def, Prec and MR. There's a special icon for it.

[Gregstrom]

Do the various devil types get a bonus to return from the appropriate hells? It seems to me that, for example, an Ice Devil sent to Cocytos shouldn't have too hard a time of it.

[lch]

Devils don't have a bonus, but Arch Devils have a 100% chance to return from Inferno and Ice Devils have the same for Cocytos. The wielder of the Tome of the Lower Planes has a 50% chance to escape from them each turn.

[Sombre]

This is exactly why we love KO and JK so much.

I honestly thought JK was joking when he said "wait, you can't see them??" and he just had a /really/ dry sense of humour. The guy is a legend.

[Johan K]

That was not a joke and it has been fixed for the next patch. So soon you can see all the fun when your mage gets splattered by a void monster.

[Sombre]

You've shattered my dreams JK.

I used to think you were cool :[

[MaxWilson]

In SP gaming, since you're the host, you can see the battles happening in the log files, but that's not really very useful to understand what happened. The proposed Watcher nation mod which nobody so far bothered to complete would allow to see them. Or if you can, just cast the "Eyes of God" global.

If Eyes of God let you see fights, I would cast it all the time. But when I've cast it in the past I don't think it did.

-Max

[chrispedersen]

That was not a joke and it has been fixed for the next patch. So soon you can see all the fun when your mage gets splattered by a void monster.

You mean soon you can see all the fun when your mage casts Returning =).

Glimpses of hell indeed =)

[Endoperez]

You mean soon you can see all the fun when your mage casts Returning =).

Glimpses of hell indeed =)

Why did you suggest that casting Returning has a chance of throwing the caster into hell! :eek: Now it will be implemented and every time someone loses a pretender for that they'll start a war with you!

P.S. Then I will cast Vortex of Returning and conquer hell with my invulnerable army. :rolleyes::p

[lch]

That was not a joke and it has been fixed for the next patch. So soon you can see all the fun when your mage gets splattered by a void monster.
Thanks, Johan. Might I suggest to add an "Escape from Inferno" ability to Devils, unit number 304? They lack this, unlike the other usual Devil units.

[JimMorrison]

Jomon gets buffed, and now this. I am giddy and light-headed. Someone fetch me some scotch to tide me over until the patch!

[vfb]

Oh, this is gonna be really cool! I hope the patch comes out with Preponderance still running, since there's a whole bunch of Strange Houses in that game.

[Aezeal]

Hey JK, I've no idea what background those lost in space fights will use but probably somewhat spacy.. is it possible I can set them to be the backgroudn for forest provinces in my dom 3K mod (forest are space provinces there)

[JimMorrison]

Hey JK, I've no idea what background those lost in space fights will use but probably somewhat spacy.. is it possible I can set them to be the backgroudn for forest provinces in my dom 3K mod (forest are space provinces there)

Or perhaps be able to set Void as a terrain type. :happy::happy::happy:

[Gregstrom]

Odd - I'm sure I've had Ice Devils caught in Cocytos for more than one turn before.


Devils don't have a bonus, but Arch Devils have a 100% chance to return from Inferno and Ice Devils have the same for Cocytos. The wielder of the Tome of the Lower Planes has a 50% chance to escape from them each turn.

[lch]

One more thing, Johan, if one of the R'lyeh units summon units from the Void gate they can get assassinated by void beings. But the battle happens in the battleground for the province that the Void gate is in, i.e. the sea floor. Wouldn't it make more sense to have these battles happen on the Void battleground, too?

[rdonj]

One more thing, Johan, if one of the R'lyeh units summon units from the Void gate they can get assassinated by void beings. But the battle happens in the battleground for the province that the Void gate is in, i.e. the sea floor. Wouldn't it make more sense to have these battles happen on the Void battleground, too?

I don't really think so, since the summoner isn't actually going into the void gate, they're just using it. The void beings have to come through the gate to get to the caster... so it makes sense to have the battle on the sea floor.

[lch]

Odd - I'm sure I've had Ice Devils caught in Cocytos for more than one turn before.

Devils don't have a bonus, but Arch Devils have a 100% chance to return from Inferno and Ice Devils have the same for Cocytos. The wielder of the Tome of the Lower Planes has a 50% chance to escape from them each turn.
Let's say they seem to have some bonus, I don't know what it really does. I have inspected the item data and the unit data, and the Tome of the Lower Planes grants two things with value 50, which the Arch Devils and Ice Devils have with value 100 respectively. Maybe it's a percentage bonus to their escape roll, I haven't looked yet.

Okay, now I have looked, and the game does differentiate between being "Lost in Time and Space", aka the Void, and being lost in "some hell", aka Inferno and Cocytos. Being lost in the hells works like this:

- Every unit in them has an 8% chance to escape each hosting, plus their bonus value, which means that 100% units automatically escape
- Fire and Water magic skill respectively should probably get involved into the checks, but while it is queried, the value is never used.

- If they did escape, they have a 50/50 chance of popping up in a province under your control, or just any random province
- If they did escape and had some Fire/Water magic skill on them, then they'll have a 10% chance to increase their skill in it by one if it was between one and four.

- if they didn't escape, then they have a 50/50 chance to get attacked by monsters, units without commanders die instantly.

- in Inferno, there's a 50/50 chance to fight 2xD30 Imps (303) or 1xD8 Devils (304)
- in Cocytos, there's a:

27 out of 64 chance for 1xD8 Frost Fiend (449)
1 out of 4 chance for 1x Ice Elemental (831)
3 out of 16 chance for 2xD10 Unfrozen (1203)
9 out of 64 chance for 1xD20 Winter Wolf (511)

all these rolls are like DRNs, crits are rerolled and added to the sum.

Being lost in the Void works similarly to this, but astral magic actually does make a difference in the escape rolls, and some other stuff, too, and it might raise your astral magic like with fire/water above.

P.S.: It might be that a unit's escape roll throws them right back into the hell, if they'd escape to one of the hells or the void, but that's about the only thing that would make an Ice Devil stay in Cocytos for longer than a turn. Maybe he was in the Void or Inferno instead.

[chrispedersen]

Damn impressive.. how in the hell do you figure these things man?
Reverse assemble?

Ich, I don't know if you saw my other post -but since voice of apsu was made from any territory, to only your territories could you look at the differences between the patches to figure out the flag for ownly own territories?

[lch]

Ich, I don't know if you saw my other post -but since voice of apsu was made from any territory, to only your territories could you look at the differences between the patches to figure out the flag for ownly own territories?
There is a change that was done to Voice of Apsu between patches 3.15 and 3.17, which the other remote search spells already had, but I don't think that it can be achieved by modding right now. The things that can be modded, like #effect and #damage and so on, are the same like before. You could use #copyspell and overwrite the values that you want changed, though.

[lch]

Out of curiosity, I had a look at how being lost in the void works, too. I'm not as sure about it as I am about being lost in the hells, but this should be close enough:

- units without a commander have a 10% chance to escape the void into a friendly province
- units with commanders have the same chance plus a bonus of 20% per commanders astral level
- otherwise, according to what I can see, they should escape into a totally random province

- it seems that there's a 50% chance, minus 10% per commander's astral level, to get feebleminded upon escape. the code looks somewhat erroneous, though.

- if the unit escaped, there's a 30% chance to be affected by peering into the void. If the unit had less than 5S magic, it gains 2xD50 insanity, crits are rerolled like DRN, and if it was a commander then it gets +1S magic.

Now, if there wasn't an escape:

- units without voidsanity have a 99% chance to get 1xD6 insanity, crits rerolled
- units with voidsanity have a chance of voidsanity% to avoid this

Then there's a chance for encounters with void beings, at 20%.

- like in the hells, units without commander are killed immediately.
- in 3 out of 4 cases, the fight is against 1xD25 (no crits rerolled) void monsters.
- otherwise, in 1 out of 4, there will be an assassination attempt, but I don't really understand this enough. There's a 5% chance to fight a single assassin (a doom horror, maybe?) and otherwise, up to two other assassins.

[Dectilon]

R'lyeh is pronounced "rull-yeh," not Ryallah.

-Max

Actually, since no human has ever heard the true pronounciation (and lived) you should not be so certain, you post-signer, you ;)

I'm not sure if this is specific to the void gate in R'yleh, but I once got an Etherlord lost in the void, and when he returned he had 1 point of Summoning Skill, that skill Starspawn has that lets them summon more powerful beings in the void gate.

Twas a bit testing to try to use the void gate. I tried thrice, and every time I got attacked by the things he summoned and then he got lost in the void. He returned twice, but then never again :(

Do ether lords have a bonus for that sort of thing by the way?

[Sombre]

If no-one has ever heard it and lived and presumably no Old One has ever written it in the western alphabet, where did anyone get the word Rlyeh from in the first place?

[Dectilon]

In Call of Cthulhu the narrator says it kind of translates to that, but that it doesn't really do it justice. I think he suggest no human could pronounce it the right way. It's been a while since I read it.

[lch]

I'm not sure if this is specific to the void gate in R'yleh, but I once got an Etherlord lost in the void, and when he returned he had 1 point of Summoning Skill, that skill Starspawn has that lets them summon more powerful beings in the void gate.

Twas a bit testing to try to use the void gate. I tried thrice, and every time I got attacked by the things he summoned and then he got lost in the void. He returned twice, but then never again :(

Do ether lords have a bonus for that sort of thing by the way?
AFAIK Etherlords have S3 magic skill, which isn't perfect, but pretty okay for venturing into the void.

[Dectilon]

It varies actually. Some of them have 4. :)

[JimMorrison]

In Call of Cthulhu the narrator says it kind of translates to that, but that it doesn't really do it justice. I think he suggest no human could pronounce it the right way. It's been a while since I read it.

Definitive, irrefutable proof that ChrisPedersen is human. ;)

<3

[chrispedersen]

In Call of Cthulhu the narrator says it kind of translates to that, but that it doesn't really do it justice. I think he suggest no human could pronounce it the right way. It's been a while since I read it.

Definitive, irrefutable proof that ChrisPedersen is human. ;)

<3


=P = )