Improved Arena

[Dectilon]

As it is now there's rarely good reason to fight in the arena, is there? I think the concept of the arena would be way more interesting if different things were offered to the winner each time.

Examples would be a bounty of gold or gems, or some unique magic item that could only be won there (obviously the prices would be weighed against how many turns into the game you were).

Perhaps the awards could even be based on odds? For example if an indy commander were to defeat some Ashdod commander the reward would be greater than vice versa.

[Aezeal]

Try The mark of the Champion mod.. it's very nice and while not exactly what you say it will make the arena worthwile.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not sure if Arena would ever be worthwhile for MP.
It seems more of an RP solo playing thing.

[MaxWilson]

My favorite thing to send in is a D4 commander set to Raise skeleton x2, Drain Life x3. Against what the AI sends in he pretty much only loses to someone spamming Frozen Heart.

-Max

[Redeyes]

The big problem now is that the Arena sees less use than it should (my opinion).

A quick analysis of the arena shows that the risk of participating usually outweighs the reward.
One problem is that the reward really isn't that great nor useful for every participant.
Another that your commander will likely end up dead.

That's why I suggest that the arena be made strictly non-fatal. If the only cost is that one of your commander can do nothing else for a turn the Arena would probably see a near 100% nation participation rate whenever it occurs. A massive improvement from people avoiding it.

Furthermore you could involve giving bonus experience for every fight won, to alleviate "the winner takes it all" syndrome. Which would be a bit silly in the massive mega games around today.

[Aezeal]

just try the friggin mod, that reward is worth quite a lot to improve your character and while you'll probably still better not send your god it can certainly be worth it to send a decently kitted thug.

[Dectilon]

A mod is good and fine, but it just seems like something that should be part of the vanilla game. It would be sort of like mercenaries. In no way gamebreaking, but something that might give you just the right boost you need to get over the hump :)

[Gandalf Parker]

Everything has its pros and cons.
I think that if Arenas were made non-death then it might also be a good idea to say that no pretenders can be sent to the arena. Otherwise you just have the thug gods winning every time.

[Aezeal]

yeah but then the first 50 turn the thuggish nations would win most.. it's nice as it is, non lethal isn't that "realistic" since nations are at war anyway.

[Sombre]

I think the mod does a lot to sort it out. To the point where I don't mind it and sometimes send something.

[Endoperez]

Wow, thanks for the praise guys. There's a link to the Mark of the Champion mod in my signature.

While it would be nice to get the arena improved in the vanilla game, it's been suggested many times before and the developers don't want to. They don't want it to become important, because human nations can't expect to win it if there are giants or starspawn or such in the game. If it gave something like 1000 gp and random gems (gold and gems are often suggested as prices useful for everyone) to the winning nation, it would be an unfair advantage for those non-human races.

[Dectilon]

Maybe there could be tiers? Dependant on size or something? :)

[Endoperez]

Then it wouldn't be fun to RP, and you'd never get your prophet accidentally killing a Jotun. Also, too complicated to balance. If it's easier to ignore than to implement, it probably won't get in. :p

[Dectilon]

I refuse to believe there's no way to make the arena interesting and useful :(

How about this then: Keep the open arena as it is, but add a 'closed' arena as well where you get presented with a number of thugs which you can then place a bet on, and depending on the odds you get rewarded if that thug wins.

[vfb]

The Arena is a chance to send your champion up against the champions of the other nations. I'll min-max my site searching, but I'll never squander an opportunity to visit the Arena, even if it does cost me 40 gold for the commander! (He's probably a little sick too, but hey, at least my nation gets represented.) :)

[Sombre]

I personally prefer to send 20 gold scouts. I find them less vulnerable to armour destruction spells.

[Aezeal]

I refuse to believe there's no way to make the arena interesting and useful

We agree, and it's been proven
--> you must have missed all mine and several other replies in this thread.. there is a mod that changes it, more than a mod you will NOT get that has been made clear. So try to mod and test it and you'll see.

[mighty_scoop]

My proposals for the arena fight would be :
1) instead of commanders let normal units fight there ... the unit who wins will be awarded to a commander, get upgraded stats and earns a hall of fame hero status ( thus needs to get at least as much experience points as the last one there has)

2) commander fights ... wining one gets a limited wish ... you can wish for an item (perhaps lvl 4-6) ... some gems (perhaps 10 in all categories), or upgraded stats for your commander ... commander will get hero status as mentioned above

[MaxWilson]

I still think the most thematic reward for winning the Arena Death Match would be Immortality until the next Death Match. I don't know if it would be good for the *game*, but fame is immortality, right? And it makes (mostly) certain that he will be around for the next Death Match.

-Max

[Tifone]

That's a nice idea but we return to the problem that Giant nations would probably get an early immortal SC :(

Maybe if there were more Arena Death Matches, an increase in the reward would be viable. As it is you maybe get one match in what, 4 years? more? In this way Niefel or someone else gets the reward and bye-bye, if it was gold or gems it would be much more unbalancing.

If there were 1 every year i.e., and possibly rewards increasing in value over time, we would see more interest around it, and maybe the balance of it shift from the giant nations which have early thugs, to other nations which become able to send specialized summons :)

The Arena has a lot of potential and for as the lands of Dominions work, I think it should become an important appointment not to miss, and to properly prepare for :cool:

[Gandalf Parker]

Remember that the worry isnt what you add to this game.
The worry is what you add, each nations ability with it, what the players can add on top of the thing you added, and the grand total thereof. Many things sound good until one of the expert players starts adding it all up and showing you the total.

[thejeff]

My thought for the Arena prize has long been, make it better each time a contestant wins. Starting with something along the lines of the base Trident and working up to something really good for anyone. Still an item though, not gems or cash. Maybe with pathboosters, reinvig, mr, whatever.

But you have to keep winning it. If the previous Champion loses, or doesn't return to defend his title, the new Champion gets the base item and starts working up again.

This couldn't be done seamlessly with modding, but it could be done by changing the mod after each Arena match.

[WingedDog]

I've been thinking about Arena improvement recently and discovered this old thread.
What if a reward for victory in a Deathmatch should be a dominion boost? Let's say +3 dominion change towards the winner nation in every single province of the world, and the Champion's Trident gives 1 temple check in the province you're in.
The restrictions are: no pretenders are allowed and no deathmatches during the first year.
Thematicaly if fits perfect: you are the champion of your God, the whole world is gazing at you and your victory will prove prove the power of your your God, while your defeat would turn potential followers away.
The practical gain is situational, and it's up to you to decide whether to risk a commander or not, but it would surely make deathmaches more populated.

[LumenPlacidum]

Well, that would certainly make 3 dominion even less attractive than it is now, what with the event suddenly making you lose. It seems awfully strong to do that drastic of a dominion shift. It seems like it would take some significant time to recover from that even if it didn't kill you immediately.

[WingedDog]

I haven't ever seen anyone playing with domstreight of 3 in MP game.

Still, there could be lesser dominion loss if your champion kills at least 1 opponent, and no dominion loss if he kills 3 opponents. It would make sense to send your best if you are on the edge of death by domkill.

And if you do not send anyone you suffer even greater dominion penalty, it would make people at least send some chaff, so champions of other nations for whom loss of dominion is critical, or rasing of a dominion is important could compete with.

[Illuminated One]

I like the idea, although I too think that's far to much.
Even with a domstrength of 8 maybe half your provinces have less than 3 candles.

[WingedDog]

I like the idea, although I too think that's far to much.
Even with a domstrength of 8 maybe half your provinces have less than 3 candles.

So the desire not to loose your dominion would force you to send a better combatant. In most important areas loss of 3 candles would be recovered fast, but still if it is too much it could be 2±1 depending on random as everything else in Dominions.

[NTJedi]

I like the idea, although I too think that's far to much.
Even with a domstrength of 8 maybe half your provinces have less than 3 candles.

So the desire not to loose your dominion would force you to send a better combatant. In most important areas loss of 3 candles would be recovered fast, but still if it is too much it could be 2±1 depending on random as everything else in Dominions.

I definitely agree the arena death match should be improved. The arena death match is a very interesting and creative idea, unfortunately the prize is not worth the life of a good commander. Several suggestions have been made in the past such as a gem reward based on current game turn, but nothing has ever changed.
We'll have to wait for Dominions_4.

[earcaraxe]

I'm playing with the idea of setting up a new game in which arena gets more emphasis. Is there a way to call a death match - say - every 10 turns?

[Gandalf Parker]

Not that I know of.
You can change the arena's reward, or expand on it, thru mods. You can also set up a server-side notification of an arena happening so that for games you might be running but not playing in you will get a notification that an arena happened so you can jump into that game and award a special prize using one of the DungeonMaster mods.

[thejeff]

You can set up a GM nation that can wish for Death Matches.
That's been done before.

[ologm]

Arena is fine as it is. If you find it worthless don't send anyone and I'll enjoy the free heroic ability and great thug weapon.

This happens pretty much every time in multi-player where I am almost the only person sending in a cheap tough commander and getting a nice cheap thug back.