WildPansies -started

[Omnirizon]

hey folks,

this is WildPansies, a new no indies no diplo (NIND) game. it will be set in LA with CBM and difficult research. we will be playing on the infinite sands map. this is an eight player game.

everyone is invited, but be forewarned, this game is likely not suitable for newbies. NIND means you're on your own, you can't have a lopsided nation that can lean on indie mages and trades to make up for design sacrifices. this map is mostly desert, and not a lot income or resources are available, you can't just build forts anywhere. similarly, all the desert means it is difficult to move large armies around (also, supplies are likely to be set lower than default, to really crank up the feeling of that desert pain). the large map and all the wasteland does provide nice gem incomes, but magic sites will be set at LA default, so that will be clipped a little.

DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT display your nation choice here. simply sign up. I will find a manager or devise some other scheme for choosing nations shortly. this is not random assignment, we will be choosing nations. just do not show what you are choosing.

because they would be even more suited to this game, Ermor is unavailable. further, there is no water so water nations or nations requiring coast are not playable either.

lets rock.


Game: WildPansies
Map: infinite sands v1.01ni (no indies version)
Era: Late Age
Players: 8
Indies: default
Special Sites: default
Money: default
Resources: 150
Supply: 75
Score Graphs: On
HoF: 15
Research: Difficult
Victory: Standard
Mods: CBM 1.41
Notes: No Diplomacy

Players:
1. Omni
2. Dragar
3. qio
4. Reverend Zombie
5. Tolkien
6. Incabulos
7. Burnsaber
8. Lingchin


Nation selection will proceed as follows:

an arbitrator (probably Pasha) will randomly assign a number to each player. you will then be contacted by this person who will inform you of your number; it will be between 1 and 8. Wait until all those numbers ahead of you have submitted their pretenders, and then you may submit your own.

you can see how many have already submitted at the game link at:
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=WildPansies

for instructions on using llamaserver see:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160


this is a big map, but with very few players. this is due to the terrible income of low pop wasteland. keep that in mind.

EDIT:
resource settings altered to 150
rational: low resource nations had advantage in this large and mountain-sparse map with their flexible fort placement. this makes the high resource nations of LA more playable.

[Dragar]

I'm in

[qio]

Sign me up.

All FIFOs are bad ideas. Just randomize the picking order for nations. Not too much work with 8 players. (i.e. give each player a number)

[Omnirizon]

Sign me up.

All FIFOs are bad ideas. Just randomize the picking order for nations. Not too much work with 8 players. (i.e. give each player a number)

hrmm. ok. i'll have an arbitrator randomly assign numbers and contact players with their number. once you've got your number wait for those ahead of you to submit, then submit your own.

i like that idea, it is nicer and still keeps everything anon.

[Omnirizon]

a bump for græt justice, and to get some more players.

[Revolution]

Would diplomacy using the in game message system be allowed or is this supposed to be one big free for all?

[Omnirizon]

nope. this is an absolutely no diplomacy game.

[Reverend Zombie]

I'm in.

[Tolkien]

I'm in.

[Incabulos]

I like the challenege of the format, would like to have a go. Just had a look at the map.

[Burnsaber]

Seems like a quite different experience. Consider me in.

[Omnirizon]

hey folks. there is an updated version of CBM on the OP, you will need it for this game.

it fixes the blindlord (giving them H1 instead of A8)
it adds +1H to each Grave Consort, Tomb Priest, Tomb King

the holy boost for C'tis' Tomb Summons is something I've recently asked for in CBM, and think needs to be included. the main reason for this being that C'tis has national spells they can't even cast because they have no priests who are high enough level! further, the manual lists these priests as one higher holy than any of them actually are. additionally, C'tis has never won an MP game, so I don't think this is in any danger of making them imbalanced, rather I think it is just filling in what was supposed to be a key element of their strategy, and maybe giving them a much needed competitive boost.

it would be kind if someone played as C'tis to give this little boost a whirl, and see how they work out. :D

[Lingchih]

I guess I make eight. Sounds interesting, and I'm light on games at the moment.

Though if the vets vs. noobs game actually happens, I'll be at four games with this one, which is over my limit of 3. I guess I'll just have to choose which one I play.

[Dragar]

This one will be less time consuming due to the lack of diplomacy :) especially in comparison to the newbie/vet game

[Incabulos]

So I assume we are just awaiting our number assignments, so we can pick nations?

(in other words no point in making firm plans regarding a nation/pretender until we know we get our choice?)

[Dragar]

I think so - its hard not to plan properly already, but if you get number 8 not much point doing anything yet! That said, if we all start from scratch when it's our turn we could be weeks getting this moving.

Off-topic

I just had a fun idea for a variant on this(to be tried another time perhaps). Naturally whoever gets picked first in this method has a big advantage over someone picking last. That could be countered by each subsequent player making a selection of a game variable.

For instance, for 8 players, leave 8 variables open. Number of players, allowable nations, mods, map pre-set. Each player picks the following (within predefined ranges to avoid it being ridiculous)

1st – sites (30-70%)
2nd - research difficulty (easy to difficult)
3rd – income (50% to 200%)
4th – resources (50% to 200%)
5th – indies (3 to 7)
6th – supplies (50% to 200%)
7th – diplomacy (yes, no, in-game messaging only)
8th - graphs (ON/OFF)

So the 1st gets his pick of nation, and can choose sites within a range of 30-70%. He doesn't have much else to go on though

The more information a player has about the game, the less choice he has about nation. The 8th player doesn’t have many nations that fit well the previous choices, but can at least tailor his pretender perfectly. Someone going 4th has a decent balance, but may get hammered by very strong indies or insufficient supplies if he hadn’t planned for them. An overall “balanced” random game.

[Lingchih]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but in a RAND type game like this, you should probably turn off renaming commanders. Their names can be used to send messages to other players.

[Omnirizon]

HOLY CRAP YOUR RIGHT!

what kind of criminal mind would conceive somthing like that. OK. I'll fix the settings.

Pasha should be contacting people tomorrow with their number.

I know its a little hard to think too much about pretenders when you arn't even sure if what you are planning to go with will be available to you. so if some people take a little time I think that's ok. however, given that there's eight players and 17 available nations, i think most people will get something they want (remember, no Ermor, and R'lyeh, Mari, and Atlantis all require water or coastal starts, none of which there is on this map). so with 17 nations, assuming people pick randomly, even the last person to submit has about a 50% chance of getting their choice.

[qio]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but in a RAND type game like this, you should probably turn off renaming commanders. Their names can be used to send messages to other players.

...

Let's hope no-one figures out you can PM people via this forum, or use IRC.
I am clearly missing something so devious, I haven't come up with it. Otherwise your observation would just be silly.

If I can't rename my w4n3b2 mage to w4n3b2, I tend to get very upset having to go through 24 icons to find the bastard. But maybe that's just me. For the record, I hate kittens also.

[Lingchih]

Mostly, the honor system works for this type of game. But yes, the commander renaming can be used as a sort of invisible communication, eg: commander name "Don't attack me".

[vfb]

And also everyone would know whoever names their mages w4n3b2 is qio. Not everyone renames their mages, or renames them the same way. This is a secret-identity game, right? Qio, just pick a nation that has few random paths on mages.

... I'll go back to lurking now ...

[Omnirizon]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but in a RAND type game like this, you should probably turn off renaming commanders. Their names can be used to send messages to other players.

...

Let's hope no-one figures out you can PM people via this forum, or use IRC.
I am clearly missing something so devious, I haven't come up with it. Otherwise your observation would just be silly.

If I can't rename my w4n3b2 mage to w4n3b2, I tend to get very upset having to go through 24 icons to find the bastard. But maybe that's just me. For the record, I hate kittens also.

yes, but the elaborate pretender submission scheme is all meant to keep nations anon, so no one knows who anyone is. and if you try mailing random people, then you risk someone giving you up, or worse yet lying about what nation they are and getting you to start wars with the wrong person.

and actually, i am thinking the renaming isn't that big a deal. they could just as soon send you a real message in game, and have the same effect. can't really say that your commander named "letsganguponMictlan" is just an innocent oddity. I'm not sure what someone might gain by communicating that way. In fact, it only opens there clandestine message to more eyes.

so, i'll leave renamingn on

[Tolkien]

But yes, the commander renaming can be used as a sort of invisible communication, eg: commander name "Don't attack me".

It might just be me, but if someone does that, I take it as a sign of weakness and will do the exact opposite. :p

That and report it of course.

[Lingchih]

I think it's a mistake to leave renaming on Omni. It can be abused.

The renaming can be very subtle.

[Omnirizon]

like subliminal renaming?

[qio]

Assuming everyone is just playing the game, and not trying to abuse any rules - I fail to see how renaming is problematic. Yeah, my example was just an example. I don't actually name my commanders according to their paths.

If I was participating in this or any other game with 2 of my friends. How could you ever figure out we were colluding anyways? We'd take screen shots and message via IRC or so forth.

I get the point of this being 8 random people that don't supposedly know each other, but if you are gonna assume folks have integrity then let's pretend we're all following the rules. That way I get to rename my commanders.

It takes 2 to tango or cheat.

[Dragar]

I agree we should leave renaming on.. if two people really wants to cheat they can, I choose to believe that no-one will

[Lingchih]

Dudes. I have played Rand games. I know what renaming can do. Please leave it off.

Allright, time to get to the tough sell. Renaming is of, or I am out

[Omnirizon]

huh?

for renaming to work, the intended target has to _receive_ the message.

receiving a message is receiving a message, no matter how they receive it. in this context, they could just as easily sent an actual in game message to the exact same effect.

because there is no way to turn off messaging and we are not having a third party check turns, renaming is no different from sending an in game message. renaming as a means of communication is equal to sending an in game message. turning it off would have no effect because it would subtract nothing from the possible ways for a person to cheat.

EDIT:
eh... keeping it less verbose. you get the point.

if you wanna still quit then go on ahead though. just let us know so that we can all call you a pansy.

[qio]

Dudes. I have played Rand games. I know what renaming can do. Please leave it off.

Allright, time to get to the tough sell. Renaming is of, or I am out

Dude. If someone wants to circumvent or abuse the intended rules as set currently, it will not be by renaming their commander "bomb the village on the left". If 2 people choose to collude, there is NOTHING you can do about it and no sure way of proving it has taken place.

The renaming can be very subtle.

You want this as a formal model or in iambic pentameter? Seriously.
If I (player A) want to cheat in a game and another person (player B) also endorses this there is nothing you can do to prevent this. And you could never prove it has taken place. Renaming is not the "real" issue.

[PashaDawg]

I have sent everyone their submission numbers.

Have fun.

Pasha

[Omnirizon]

Thanks Pasha.

if anyone is leaving this game we need to know now so we can find another player.

if everyone is still in then no worries and lets get rolling.

[Incabulos]

ok so we wait to see when a pretender has been submitted to the server and when our number comes up we submit, correct?

[Omnirizon]

incabulos:

correct. hopefully it won't take too long since there's only eight players. but yes unfortunately we are kind of locked into a submission order that will slow it down a bit.

it was suggested that this method would be a little more fair of way of handling anon nations while still allowing players to choose there own. that maybe right, but I think if I do another game like this I'll just set a 'submission start data' and let it be first come first serve. the extra step just isn't that worth it :(

[Incabulos]

Considering the length of games I don't think it hurts too much and makes things a little fairer.

[Omnirizon]

another thing is that people must download the CBM version on the OP. it is a slightly different version that fixes the blindlord mistake (with them having A8) and gives C'tis tomb summons +1H (so that the Tomb Kings now have H4, and can cast their nationals).

Also be sure to activate it. It should be called 'CBM 1.41c' or some such. if you do not have it active when you make your pretender, llamaserver will barf and we'll have to resubmit, which will be a big pain. if you've already submitted but didn't have this mod active, then you can just resubmit up until the point when all eight get in.

[Lingchih]

I'll stay. And yes, I was being a pansy :)

[Dragar]

1 pretender in, we're moving! :) I think it's going to be a long haul, especially the last few players who will likely be picking nations they hadn't initially considered

Just a thought.. maybe we can speed this up, if Pasha is willing to put a little extra work in, by each player sending a list of preferences 1-8?

Pasha can then very quickly assign each player their nation, reply via message and let everyone get to work on their pretenders?

[Omnirizon]

1 pretender in, we're moving! :) I think it's going to be a long haul, especially the last few players who will likely be picking nations they hadn't initially considered

Just a thought.. maybe we can speed this up, if Pasha is willing to put a little extra work in, by each player sending a list of preferences 1-8?

Pasha can then very quickly assign each player their nation, reply via message and let everyone get to work on their pretenders?

I had considered something like that initially, but don't want to burden the third party manager with any additional tasks; they're nice enough to do whatever they do in the first place.

[qio]

Seems there are 3 pretenders submitted. It should not take more than 24h for each pretender submission. Just a matter of the next person being awake and online. Best case scenario is probably a reply time of 12h.

Let's hustle folks. Mush.

[Lingchih]

Hmm. 4 in now. We might be able to start this thing by the weekend.

[Tolkien]

3 more to go.

[Omnirizon]

al.. most.. there

just.. one.. more

and remember folks, please make sure you did design your pretender with the modified version of CBM found on the OP.

[Lingchih]

I think you are up Omni. Time to make the game happen.

[Omnirizon]

uhh.... the game seems to have magically disappeared...

i've emailed llama.

[llamabeast]

I'm away from home at the moment, but I'll take a look and revive it either tonight or tomorrow.

[Redeyes]

I saw the same thing happen in another game we tried to create using one of the newer versions of the CBM.
There was some internal nagot gick fel error which caused it, but llama could fix it that time, I have faith he will again :up:

[Omnirizon]

thank you llama

you're a gentleman and a scholar

or a hustler and a pimp

i can't remember

[Tolkien]

The game's back up.

[Burnsaber]

Oh god, this is embarrasing.

When you said no independents, I thought that there won't be any independents. I just assaulted with everything on turn 1 and they all got slaughtered, including my F3E4W3A3D3N4B3 Ghost King.

No chance of recovering from that one, so I made myself AI (I'm not the kind of player to get kicks out of from trying to fight a uphill battle).
Next time, I'll try to be less retarted.

[Dragar]

Lol

I was unsure about that one, played a test game to find out that is meant no recruitable independents (except for those that come from sites)

Surely early enough for a restart rather than lose someone already?

[Omnirizon]

well... we could just rollback. if everyone is ok with it and burnsaber still wants to play.

i've turned off the quickhost until we decide.

[Incabulos]

I don't object to a rollback

[Lingchih]

Wow. That's a huge hit to the game.

I personally find it inexcusable that they did no do test games, to figure out the map. I would object to a rollback, but will go with the majority.

[qio]

well... we could just rollback. if everyone is ok with it

Fine by me.

[Burnsaber]

Wow. That's a huge hit to the game.

I personally find it inexcusable that they did no do test games, to figure out the map. I would object to a rollback, but will go with the majority.

Well, in my defense. I did test games, but I put independent strength to 0 since I thought that was the point of no_independents.

But it seems that a year in military service did not only rust my Dom3 skills, but also my common sense. :doh:

Omnirozon just send me a PM that we could rollback, and if that's not too much of a bother, I'd like try again. I think I paid for my mistake by revealing my pretender. (would you guys be so kind and not research Dust to Dust? :D)

[Dragar]

sure we won't... ;)

[Omnirizon]

ok. well i rolledback.

according to the llamaserver, its a good idea to delete your current 2h files, otherwise weird things can happen if you send a turn 2 2h file in for a turn 1 turn.

[Incabulos]

hmm only 3 hours to go and 4 players still not submitted turns. Hope this doesn't turn from 1 player wiping on turn 1 to 4 players stal(l)ing on turn 1.

[Dragar]

yeah its a very short hosting period after the rollback? I could easily have staled, one of the few days I logged on before work

[Omnirizon]

that is rather short... well, i've postponed by 12 hours to give everyone time.

hell, i postponed it this morning and then left for work, had I not checked the forum by chance, i might have stalled due to not getting home in time :o

[Lingchih]

The admin generally gives RAND type games a bump each turn, like "Turn 10 complete", to keep the thread on the first page. (nudge, nudge).

[Omnirizon]

I don't think the admin does that to keep the thread on the first page. I think it was because Pasha's RAND games were being manually hosted, and the host needed to let players know deadlines.

[Incabulos]

doh sorry thought I submitted my turn, I did it hours ago... just submitted.

[Lingchih]

I don't think the admin does that to keep the thread on the first page. I think it was because Pasha's RAND games were being manually hosted, and the host needed to let players know deadlines.

Just saying, a turn bump would be nice.

[Omnirizon]

certainly.

so how's everyone feel about their empires of waste :D

I like the style. its so different, you really have to play differently. i actually think the typical "land grab" strategy isn't trump here. saving gold, getting an early research lead, and building a fortress may be a stronger move in a game like this. land really isn't all that valuable early on.

i'm almost thinking about starting another game on the same map, but maybe with indies and diplo :D

i do miss the AARs and talking **** to other players :)

[Lingchih]

It's different, for sure. The Unique Indies are nothing to scoff at either. Quite a surprise.

[qio]

so how's everyone feel about their empires of waste :D

Not feeling the angst, desolation, despair or heat which would be thematic for a desert setting. Maybe heat and death 3 scales in all indy provinces would do it.

I like the style. its so different, you really have to play differently. i actually think the typical "land grab" strategy isn't trump here. saving gold, getting an early research lead, and building a fortress may be a stronger move in a game like this. land really isn't all that valuable early on.

I fail to see land in bulk having any value in this game, unless you have growth 3 scales and decades elapse. Expansion is more of a means of scouting out opponents, establishing some sort of border framework and conducting tentative diplomacy as we are not allowed to communicate. The greatest benefit is in trying to claim prime provinces. That in turn will lead to a few interesting scenarios, where this "silent" diplomacy will then commence. Someone that attacks you obviously wants war. Someone that doesn't advance too close to your center of power probably is cool with your continued existence for the time being.

Having score graphs off, might have been an idea.

It would also be cool if a person that turns on AI doesn't give away his identity in the game.

It's different, for sure. The Unique Indies are nothing to scoff at either. Quite a surprise.

You are saying this based on play testing the map of course. Not implying you are any specific nation that might have done a lot of site searching. :re:

[Dragar]

Actually yes, score graphs off would have been good. Can't say that I'm feeling the love for the setting, but it's early days yet.

[Tolkien]

certainly.

so how's everyone feel about their empires of waste :D
Well, there are spots of forests and regular territory for income. I can see wars being waged for them.

The waste does make for good buffer though. :P

[Lingchih]

Yeah, it's kind of goofy sending armies out to conquer provs that yield 7 or 8 gold. It's a very weird game.

[Tolkien]

But they make great buffers. Plus, you need to cut through some of the waste to get to the sparse income spots.

[Omnirizon]

toasty!!!

[Burnsaber]

I'm going to my sister's wedding thursday, so I'd need the game on hold from wednesday to monday.

This is certainly proving to be intresting game.

[Omnirizon]

ok. we can take a break from Wed to Mon I think

[Lingchih]

ahh, c'mon. We have to get another turn in before the break.

[Lingchih]

Cool deal. We got the turn in. Now I have 5 days to ponder.

[Lingchih]

One more turn before the break. Could it be?

[Burnsaber]

Who knows? My last chance to do SP turns this week is tomorrow morning about 14 hours from posting this.

[Tolkien]

I hate to delay the turns even more, but I've got to go to JHUMUNC from Thursday to Sunday. The latest I can send in a turn is Thursday morning (EST), and I should be able to send in turns again starting Sunday afternoon.

[Lingchih]

Well, I guess this has gone from an everyday game, to a once in a while game. Whatever. Don't any of you have laptops?

Don't mind me, sorry. I'm in a bad mood from some other games.
Another delay is doable. Sub would be even nicer though.

[Lingchih]

And the game is back on track. Cool. Should we try to make this the longest 24 hour host game in history? I think I could keep up.

[Omnirizon]

I actually set it to 48 hours whenever we had calls for delays last week. We've just been pretty good about being quick on turns.

I must say, this is one of the fastest turning mid-games I've ever been in. Usually by this period, many people are not getting turns in until the 6 hour mark. Must be the no diplo and vast stretches of waste, there's just not a whole lot to mull over.

[Lingchih]

Cool. Let's keep it up. I like fast games.

[Tolkien]

Let's see if we can't get one more turn in before Thursday, shall we?

[Tolkien]

Well, I'm off. Can you turn off quickhost so I know I won't stale?

[Omnirizon]

certainly

[Lingchih]

So... who is out? I notice that there are only five active players left in the game. Usually the players reveal themselves when they are beaten in RAND type games.

[Lingchih]

But, I guess this is not the case in this game.

[Lingchih]

And quickhost should probabaly be turned back on.

[Incabulos]

I was Pythium, butted heads early with Abysia and we sieged each others capitals then Abysia went AI, I hung on for a while but the ai nver managed anything and we ended up in a doom inducing siege stalemate until I finally went AI too.

Had I not managed to recruit 100 gladiators for fort defence the turn I saw Abysia heading to me, he would have quickly taken my capital, as it was his sizable force couln't damage my walls and handful of units I had down at his couldn't hurt his walls.

[Lingchih]

Thanks Inca. Not many AARs on this game.

[Tolkien]

On another note, I've found a City of the Damned. My explorers shall pillage the site until there is no more treasure to loot!

[Burnsaber]

Having all of the terrain be wasteland makes site searching a bit.. boring. I keep finding the same sites all over and over again.

Perhaps the next game could incorporate the magic site mod?

[Lingchih]

Yeah, not a ton of sites. Though I did find one very interesting one.

[Lingchih]

bump

[Tolkien]

City of the Damned was a nice find, though I'm just hoping I pull a Chalice or 10000 gold out randomly.

I can hope, can't I?

[Lingchih]

bump

[Tolkien]

From the score graphs, looks like Midgard and Gath are going at each other.

Can't tell how it's going to turn out yet, though.

[Omnirizon]

since midgard went AI really early in the game (for no apparent reason), I would reckon Gath will come out ahead on that one.

on another note, as admin i've put us on a 72 hour schedule. We are a little overdue for it.

[Lingchih]

Ahh, Omni. We were all doing well on 48 hour. I guess 72 hour is fine though.

[Tolkien]

Midgard is a computer, eh? I never noticed.

Now I have to go and carve a chunk off him before Gath gets too fat. :p

[Lingchih]

I think there are only four non-AI nations left in the mix. Might be five... not sure.

Never the less. I think it is time to quit picking on the computer, and start kicking each other's asses.

[Tolkien]

Well, do we rollback the turn for this one?

[Lingchih]

I think we are just skipping the last turn, since we all staled, and going on with the next one.

I would like to know why the game crashed though. Has anyone changed their mods or anything?

[Burnsaber]

I'm pretty curious about the crash too. But my other CBM game is running fine so my mods should be okay.

Let's see if it happens again..

[Lingchih]

yeah, if it happens again, I guess we will need to do some serious de-bugging, and probably roll back the next turn.

[Tolkien]

Looks like it happened again.

[Lingchih]

Whoever is the last person in, is screwing up the game. Re-install your dominions please. Rollback would be nice on this one.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, this is totally screwed up. Whoever is causing this , fix you ****, or this game is dead.

[Omnirizon]

the game appears to have disappeared off of llamaserver...

[Lingchih]

Yes, it does appear to be gone. My apologies if my last post gave the impression that I wanted the game to be done. I just want it to be fixed. But, alas, it may be too late for that.

Hey, I could be the one crashing the game. Who knows? But I am in 3 other games with similar setting and I haven't crashed any of them. It's just a shame that the game keeps crashing. I was having a very good time.

[Omnirizon]

me too... I really like this game. all the fun of late game without all the micromanagement. who knew? the solution to late game tedium was just to use a map where you can't really afford to even hire armies or commanders :p

[Burnsaber]

Has anyone contacted Llamabeast?

I was really loving this too.

[Omnirizon]

I have contacted him. no word yet. if it turns out that the game is lost (or its just more trouble than it's worth to save it) then I guess we can reveal our nations and deliver some AAR. We could decide winner through score graphs or a vote, or just not declare a winner at all.

[llamabeast]

Ohhhh, sorry. Yeah, I think it can be fixed, possibly without problems. I hosted Turn 50 manually, and it hosted fine. Is that the one that crashed? If so then I can just use this manually generated turn 51 and we'll be back on track.

Unfortunately I won't really have any internet access for the next 48 hours, so I guess I'll fix it after that. And right now I desperately need to be in bed. Sorry!

[Omnirizon]

thanks llama!

this is all fine with me, I've got a ton of end semester work to do that I'm running out of ways to put off; however Dom3 would only give me one more way to do just that, which I don't need. Thus, a little delay is fine by me right now.

[Lingchih]

Thanks Llama.

Do we have any idea why the game is doing this though? It will be quite frustrating if it keeps happening.

[llamabeast]

So: 1) Did you get an error message? If so what was it?

2) Has this happened before?

[Omnirizon]

1. we did get an error message, I copy & paste it for you below
2. this is the second time this has happened. the first time it happened we received a new turn file in which we had all staled, just like the error message said. This time we did not receive a new turn file, and the game disappeared.


"""
Hi. On trying to host WildPansies just now, Dominions crashed. This is not a LlamaServer issue, but rather Dominions itself crashed with a "Nagot gick fel" error.

These errors are normally caused by a (generally inexplicable) problem with one of the players' 2h files. Therefore the LlamaServer moved all your 2h files away before hosting again. This is why you will receive a new turn file in which you've staled.

There are two options from here. Either you can treat the stale turn as a random event and carry on with the game, or you can roll back the turn and try to host again. If you try the latter your game admin will have to do the rollback via the admin options on the LlamaServer website, and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.

I hope you manage to get the game back on course, whichever option you go for.
"""

[llamabeast]

WildPansies is back! I had to guess all the game parameters Omni, so you'll want to check them. Also I'll PM you the password.

Right, hopefully you'll be back on track now. Sorry to keep you waiting.

[Lingchih]

Thanks Llama.

And since the game is back on, should we not all take our turns?

[Lingchih]

Wow, this game could take like 100 or more turns. I think we picked too big of a map.

[Lingchih]

I will be going on vacation for a week starting May 2. Please delay the game for 7 days from that date. If that is not acceptable, I will just stale for one turn.

[Omnirizon]

I think a(nother) delay of game is OK. From now until middle of May is end of semester for me right now, so I don't mind taking it slow during that period (and this is the only game I'm in!!! arrrggghh. no time!)

[Lingchih]

Thanks Omni. I hope the others will agree.

[Lingchih]

I had to cancel the vacation... something came up. So no need for the delay unless somone else wants one.

[Omnirizon]

I think this is the most fun game I've ever played :)

[Burnsaber]

I think this is the most fun game I've ever played :)

Ditto.

[Lingchih]

It's a fun game, no doubt. But games like this have always made me a bit uncomfortable, since I am a natural blabber, and I'm always afraid I will blab something important.

[Tolkien]

Looks like Ulm and Gath are duking it out. Anyone want to place bets?

[Lingchih]

I would never bet against Gath.

[Burnsaber]

I would never bet against Gath.

Ulm seems to be staling, could we at least set him to AI so that Gath wouldn't get all that land without resistance?

[Omnirizon]

I would never bet against Gath.

Ulm seems to be staling, could we at least set him to AI so that Gath wouldn't get all that land without resistance?

lookking for someone to do just that. started a thread in MP/ARR but got nothing. I'll have to ask some people directly :)

[Lingchih]

I still love your Avatar, Omni. If I did not already have a cool one of my own, I would steal yours.

Oh, and I hope I am not out of line here, but let's kill all these AI nations, then get down to killing each other.

[Omnirizon]

i'm struggling to get turns in because summer classes are incredibly intense. I've put us on 4 day intervals to help out. These classes only last until early June, so once they're over I'll go back to 72.

If anyone objects I can switch it back, but this would be a great help to me.

[Lingchih]

So, we are down to three, on a huge map with many AI nations. Is this even viable anymore?

We could declare the winner based on score graphs. I believe Gath has an overwhelming score graph lead. Granted... it was fun, but now it is becoming a bit of a beating.

[Burnsaber]

So, we are down to three, on a huge map with many AI nations. Is this even viable anymore?

We could declare the winner based on score graphs. I believe Gath has an overwhelming score graph lead. Granted... it was fun, but now it is becoming a bit of a beating.

Eh, yeah. Conquering all those lands and forts seems like a immense chore. Althought there is much less micro than in a regular game over turn 60, it's just going to get worse..

But I have to admit that this was really fun. My suggestions for Wildpansies 2:


- Magic site mod
- A map with a bit less provinces. I'm not too much into map modding, but I don't think that it would it be difficult to morph two provinces into one. I'm thinking about 25 per player? Should be enough to give the impression of huge amounts of wasteland.
- Nation selection like Gregstorm did in Unsanity (random selection, but with the twist that each player suggests a single nation into the pot)

[Omnirizon]

well it seems if I agree, than it's unanimous. So I'm OK with it, I don't think the remaining nations, even with strength combined, would stand up against Gath. Although, I do like to think I could make a good fight out of it :)

So revelations:

I am Agartha, king of the Tomb Oracles and Umbrals (I have a ton of them, many not in the HoF). I've been embroiled in a two front war with both C'tis and Midgard since the early game. For a short time, Patala made a stab at me, but quickly withdrew after the battle when three TO's slaughtered about 50 Ghandarvas and a ton of monkey fodder. I only ever kept a couple of TO's and commanders on the Midgard side (just enough to keep from losing land) and had to focus on C'tis who was quite an effective opponent. Neither of us could make any headway against the other, until recently I finally started to make some inroads.

I was guessing Burnsaber is Gath since he mentioned losing a Ghost King in a first attack, and I saw Gath on turn one (before the restart) lose armies on the score graph (while no one else did), I also observed Gath's Ghost King on my border.

Am I right?

At any rate congrats to Gath, be sure to go claim your victory in the HoF thread.

Burnsaber: those do sound like good suggestions, and I do intend to have a WildPansies II at some point (I really like the wasteland style maps and the kind of game they create).

[Burnsaber]

Yeah, I'm Goidius, the Rainbow in the Dark, Master of the Elements.

I was wondering on why no-one opposed my ascension to power. But it seems that you guys were busy fighting each other. I was ridiciliously paranoid (you probably noticed those warrior naiads just sitting on the border, they were a hasty summon army when my pretender settled in a build a lab. Yeap, just standing there, protecting my pretender. I thought that my ridicilious gem icome would have painted a huge bullseye on my forehead. I knew from the start that this game could not be won by conventional armies. Hence the awake F3A4W3E4D3N4B2 Ghost King with turmoil 3, sloth 3, heat 3, death 3, luck 3, magic 3. Here is the kicker. I got dominion strenght 3. My plan was to expand outside my bad scales while my awake pretender would create "pockets" of faith to prevent dom-kill.

early on to turn 35 or so, my Ghost King did this
a) Attack independent prov
b) search it
c) repeat

You can notice how my early gem income graph gets a significant boost every second turn :D . The difficult research really almost boned me thought. I kept losing my sages in hordes to disease. But once I reached con6, I turned 240+ fire gems (due to my pretender & rigorious amounts of Augury) to lightless lanters in 2-3 turns. You can see this pretty easily in the graphs too. Lore Masters helped too thought.

Once I hit con8 for Well of Misery (cast with 80 gems, suckers!) and got elemental Royalty, things got easy. Well, things were pretty easy to me to begin with, I mostly waged war with AI Vanheim, who was too stupid to effectively counter my Bane Lord & Hashmal thugs. For 10 to 15 turns, I conquered like 25+ vanheim provinces with 3 Hashmals (with only pendants of luck for gear!) and 2 Bane Lord thugs.

Then I started steamroll over Ulm, who apparently hadn't really got his vampire economy going. At this point, I had death gem income over 60 per turn and I was able to equip a E2 Yeddeoni with Earth Boots, Blood Stone, Rune Smasher & Eye of the void (Petrify, how I love thee! If thing got seroius, those guys could aslo spam Living Earth with the blood stone gems) each turn and give him over 15 fossilized giants from that D/E national spell. As a raiding force.

Ulm fought pretty bravely, but I guess he lost spirit when he saw how the Fossil Warrior raiding forces just kept pouring in every turn. He also was unable to touch my main army (I had several guys there spamming Living Earth and air lore masters to arrow fend them against iron blizzards & two elemental royal SC's). I was also able to use earth attack to immobilize his troop deployments.

I really didn't bother with troops other than Levite Zealots & Giddeoni + summons (who are decbt with A4E4N4 bless), it took time to accumulate a reasonable force of them with my holy limit of 3, but with that gem income, I knew that time was on my side.

Some fun facts from my recent turn:
- I'm summoning, gearing and sending out a Ophan & Hashmal & Bane Lord every turn (and have astral gems to forge all the necessary astral gear too)
- I'm forging 3 Blood Stones per turn (I've been forging them form turn 35 or so, I could have reached them earlier if I hadn't messed up my research)
- I'm forging 2 to 3 clams per turn, my clamming really took a hit from the lack of nature sites in wastelands, I had to alcemize like 60+ gems to cast the mother oak.
- Fire income +31, air +23, water +30, earth +47 (before stones), Astral +47 (before clams), Death +81, nature +25, blood about 30 or 40 per turn on average.

[Lingchih]

And yes, I was poor Patala. Congrats Burnsaber. The graphs had looked pretty remarkably uneven for some time, but I was just kind of playing along, taking the AI provs and whatnot. After my ghandarva army got obliterated by Agartha's tomb oracles, I saw I was pretty much outclassed in this game.

I finally started to get some of my high-end summons towards the end of the game, but even they would have been no match for the other SCs in the game.

The one nice thing I learned is that they destroyer of worlds is a really awesome pretender. He never lost a battle, in fact, I don't think he was ever even hit. I should have used him more aggressively, but I was terribly paranoid of losing him, since I knew he was the only thing I had that could stand against the other SCs.

I'm not a monkey nation player generally, and had a lot to learn about playing them. But it was quite a bit of fun after all.

As for not attacking Gath... he was the first nation I met, and when we met, we both backed off from each other, and he never came back. So I figured, hey, he is my only friend. I'll leave him be. By the time he skyrocketed out of control though, it was kind of too late to do anything.

[Reverend Zombie]

C'tis here. What I hoped would be a counter to Agartha's TOs (Sauromancers spamming Wither Bones) turned out not to work with the forces I had arrayed against him, and I felt the momentum swinging his way. At that point it didn't seem worth the effort to install Dom3 on my new computer just to experience defeat, so I set myself to AI.

It was fun while it lasted, thanks to everyone involved for an enjoyable game.