Betelgeuse - Blood for the Blood Gods!! - Blood Nations CBM Single Age

[Starshine_Monarch]

The theme of this game will be Blood Nations. Being a blood nation doesn't necessarily mean you have to be a blood superpower like Mictlan or Lanka to play (though they certainly qualify). The only rules to nation selection are that your nation has to have at least one nationally recruitable mage with at least Blood 1 (not just randoms that include Blood). This mage may be Capital Only if he's all you have.

Betelgeuse Game Status page on Llamaserver: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Betelgeuse

=====Statistics=====

Settings - Magic Sites at 50. Magic Research at difficult. Gold Income at 125%. Renaming on. All others at default for now, but additional settings may be suggested.

Mods -

chrispederson's Conceptual Balance Mod 1.44 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7673&d=1233461962
Streamers & Standards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989
Single Age Complete http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6299&d=1212179279
Edit: Link has been fixed for Single Age Complete


Map - Map is Asia Twist which can be found here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=649938

Hosting - Hosting will be every 27 hours with Quickhost on to start with. After 20 turns we'll change to 48 hours.

Size - We now have 14 players. We're willing to accept one or two more players

Diplomacy - As in my other game, Sol, Diplomacy is really up to the players. Just note that treachery certainly won't win you any new friends, and if your victim has friends of his own to back him up, you might find yourself in over your head.

Victory Conditions - Victory Points. You must hold 6 Capitals for 3 consecutive turns. If you are in a siege, the defending nation counts as holding the province.

=====Players=====

Nations signed up:

- EA Lanka: Starshine_Monarch
- EA Sauromatia: JimMorrison
- EA Mictlan: chrispederson
- EA Hinnom: P3D
- EA Abysia: DryaUnda

- MA Pangaea: rtyffg
- MA Vanheim: Alpine Joe
- MA Jotunheim: klagrok

- LA Abysia: Dragar
- LA Ulm: Incabulos
- LA Gath: pyg
- LA Marignon: Apsophos
- LA Mictlan: Scarlioni
- LA Utgard: Stretch

=====Status=====

We have now started and are no longer accepting new players. Thanks to QM for allowing us to start quicker.

[Dragar]

LA Abysia please

[Incabulos]

EA MickeyLand please.

[rtyffg]

Does MA Pangaea qualify? If it does, then i'd like to take them.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Pandemoniacs are indeed recruitable Blood mages, so yes, they qualify.

[llamabeast]

Holding 9 capitals for 2 years sounds like a bit much. I doubt people will want to play a further 24 turns when it's already obvious who's won.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Hm. you're probably right. Does 6 capitals sound more reasonable?

[JimMorrison]

Hm. you're probably right. Does 6 capitals sound more reasonable?

Well I don't think it's the #, but the duration. Most games either end when you hit the VC (if it is set in game, it ends that turn), or request you hold them for 3 contiguous turns. Even holding them all for 6 turns would sort of be overkill at 50%.

God I am so tempted, I had wanted to do a game with this theme for awhile. :p

[rdonj]

Yeah, if you can hold all the victory points for 24 turns without ever losing them, you're probably fighting nothing but scattered barbarians anyway...

[Incabulos]

ooh I didn't pay attention the small details I saw blood and my mind blanked. if you can hold them 5 turns you can hold them 12.

Like folks have said 3 turns is the standard. I think with those victory conditions the people waiting for the eventual winner's timer to countdown would end up going AI and would find it hard getting subs.

Although that has given me an idea for a game/map..

[Starshine_Monarch]

Ah okay. I've actually never done a VP game before, so I wasn't exactly sure what was the standard. 6 capitals for 3 turns sounds fine to me, if that's what everyone wants.

[JimMorrison]

There's at least 21 by my count. As I just learned, 6 VPs for 21 nations is not nearly enough. Just make it a flat %, and round up is usually the best policy. It's really annoying to have a game end, when you never even had a chance to interact with the victor. :p

[Alpine Joe]

Why income 125 %? Wouldn't that discourage bloodhunting?

[jimkehn]

OK. I will take Bogarus, though I have not found a way to win with them!

JimMorrison. Succomb to the temptation and enter!

[Starshine_Monarch]

Why income 125 %? Wouldn't that discourage bloodhunting?

My reasoning for that is that if you're blood hunting in a few choice provinces, you won't be missing out on as much gold as you would be under 100%. With a bigger income, Blood hunting will have more of an opportunity cost, and yes, you will still have to choose what is more important to you: Gold or Slaves. However, if you are Blood Hunting, the additional income from the provinces you aren't hunting in should make up for the cost more than if you were hunting under 100%


@ JimMorrison

I must have miscounted somewhere then. I was thinking of 1/3 of the capitals and got 6 for 18 nations. If it's really 21 nations, then that would be 7 VP. Perhaps that's a bit low as well? How's 8 or 9 sound for 21 players?

[JimMorrison]

Well, a couple of games ended rather abruptly. So since I am in love with Sauromatia, I would like to share my love with all of you. <3

We need more people though! I thought Blood was more popular. :o

[Starshine_Monarch]

We need more people though! I thought Blood was more popular. :o

Yeah, I'd had thought we'd get a LA Ulm by now at least.

[JimMorrison]

I was REALLY tempted to pick them, as they're extremely fun to play. But in my tests, I haven't gotten my early-to-mid-game transition worked out yet, and they can't shine without a clear plan of how to succeed. So far it mostly looks like:

1. Mass Amazing Infantry
2. ???
3. Profit!

:p

I've got some ideas of ways to change my setup with them, but I'm not here to experiment, I'm here to chew bubblegum. :D

[Incabulos]

Actually I thought LA Ulm was taken which is why I didn't pick it(that is actually in crimson skies that they are taken). I want to try them out. So would be happy to play them and open up EA Mictlan to someone else.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Will do Inca. If anyone else wants to change, please let me know while we still have slots open.

Also, we should probably discuss the Map we want. I've been trying to work the Llamaserver map browser and it's not working. When I select a different map, the preview and description won't change.

[Incabulos]

It's been broken a while now (for me at least)... I think Llama knows, but I am not sure. A few people have posted about the same issue.

[Alpine Joe]

Alright i'll join as MA Vanheim

[pyg]

Alright i'll join as MA Vanheim

I'll counter Alpine Joe's Vanheim with LA Midgard. How many games are we in together Joe?

I like the Blood concept. Playing evil can be a lot of fun! Who is the evilest? I vote no diplomacy or at least no expectations for thematic purposes.

I am a newbie. Doing poorly in my first MP game as MA Pangaea (http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=Rothfuss). Just starting a second game as Fomoria (http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=Yanging). Don't be to hard on me, OK?

[JimMorrison]

Fomoria is one of my favorites, I'm jealous! Wait, I'll be okay..... Sauromatia is one of my favorites, too. :p

If I lose this game, I am going to start another with the same theme, named "BloodVengeance". ;)

[Starshine_Monarch]

Bumping because we need more people.

And as soon as we start, everyone can gang up on Jim.

[chrispedersen]

Ea Niefleheim, please.

edit: Nah, with Sauromatia in the game, LA-Mictlan.

[chrispedersen]

Will do Inca. If anyone else wants to change, please let me know while we still have slots open.

Also, we should probably discuss the Map we want. I've been trying to work the Llamaserver map browser and it's not working. When I select a different map, the preview and description won't change.

Here's a workaround I have discovered:
Start a game. Pick your settings... includind a map Now if you want to change a map - highlight the new map. change one other setting - apply the changes.
then you can go back in, and it will show you the info for the map you chose

(whatever is the current default displays ok). Makes looking at maps cumbersome but it works.

[llamabeast]

Gosh I really should fix the browser. Sorry, I'll try to get to it as soon as I can.

[chrispedersen]

Hmmm.. lets try a new strategy: EA-Mictlan!

[Starshine_Monarch]

I've decided I'll allow chrispederson's modification to the Conceptual Balance Mod, but I'd like it if we can get an okay from some more players before I make it official. It includes tweaks to a few pretenders and some additional bugfixes as well.

The mod can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yFUtJhUb7Q&eurl=http://onceuponawin.com/page/16/&feature=player_embedded

Changes are listed in the Readme. Look it over and decide if you want it or not.

Also, I've thought about using the World of Geometry Team Arena, however this requires us to have 24 players.

If we want to use this map, we'll need three more players after all the Blood Nations are taken. These three players may pick any other land-based nation from any age on the condition that their pretender take Blood 2 or higher, depending on their preference.

If we don't want to use it, well, I'll just look for something else.

[JimMorrison]

Honestly, I've come to feel that the WoG Remake has some odd balance issues, due to the geography.

In the game Human War, we are using the Asia Twist map, with no one starting in the water starts. This is providing a very interesting wrinkle to the game IMO, and is a lot of fun. Doing something similar here would only require us to get to 15 signups. Also, we had the idea for a variant that would place AI in the 3 water starts, rather than having the seas empty - they would be at Normal difficulty, so not terribly problematic, but they'd provide an interesting dynamic, as every nation will have water access on that map.

Just some thoughts, but I really do think that WoG may need another iteration before I want to play on it again. (Wouldn't have to be totally redrawn, just needs some tweaking.)

[chrispedersen]

I *love* the wog map - but I have to say that the balance issues are huge.

At one point I was third in provinces, with very positive scales - and I was almost last in income. The cave systems income seems about 1/2 what the interiour is.

Which is fine for a team game - but I don't think it would be so fine in a non team game.


I love the interior garrisons - but they are *so* strong that its a losing proposition to take them. The've essentially been ignored, because the benefit is not worth the reward.

You win by killing your opponents = ).

I love strong garrisons... but they have to be material to the game. So for example if you were to play 8 gates - putting strong garrisons on the gates would be relevent - because the gates provide access to the rest of the map and thus provide a huge incentive to take.

[Starshine_Monarch]

I do like the Asia Twist map and fewer signups would mean that we could get started quicker...

If anyone else has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Right now, I'm browsing through some of Gandalf Parker's works for something interesting. I'd prefer Wraparounds for whatever you guys have in mind, those get priority.

[klagrok]

Still recruiting? If so, sign me up as MA Jotunheim.

[Dragar]

Change mine to EA Abysia please

[Dragar]

sorry, cancel that. I'll stick with LA Aby

[Meglobob]

Argh, can't resist joining another game, should do but I can't!

Ea Helheim please.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Awesome. So far we have about half of everyone here now. With 9 more people we can start the big game once we've decided on a map.

However, recruitment has been a little slow, and 11 players is a good size for a game (Plus, we'll be able to pick a smaller map). If you wish to start ASAP, please post here saying so. I will still be accepting new players until we have a majority of votes to start.

If we do elect to start earlier, victory conditions will be reduced to 4 capitals for 3 turns, or 5 capitals if we get more than 12 players total.

[Incabulos]

I prefer a game of 11 or 12 players myself

[Dragar]

yeah its a good number, will likely move faster

[Apsophos]

I hesitated about playing but I think I'll take LA Marignon.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Apsophos has been added.

[P3D]

I'd try Hinnom.
As a noob, my only aim would be to survive for a while.

[Starshine_Monarch]

P3D has been added.

[Scarlioni]

If LA Mictlan is Still available then I would be happy to take them.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Scarlioni added.

We're filling up now. Whoever else wants to start ASAP, please say so.

[AlgaeNymph]

I'd like to be EA Abysia.

Is this PBEM?

[Meglobob]

About starting I will go with the majority.

[pyg]

About starting I will go with the majority.

Me too. I'm being quiet because I'm OK with everything suggested so far. I'm ready to start and I'm in no hurry.

[chrispedersen]

Sounds like you're pretty committed to Wotg Starshine...

[Starshine_Monarch]

I'd like to be EA Abysia.

Is this PBEM?

Sort of. This game is played through Llamaserver. PM pretty much anyone here and they'll tell you everything you really need to know about it.

Now that we have 15 players, I'm actually more inclined to start now using Asia Twist as JimMorrison suggested. Recruiting is now closed, game will be created shortly.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Since we haven't gotten hardly any OKs for ChrisPederson's version of CBM, we will just go with CBM 1.4.

[Alpine Joe]

Well I think we should use chrispederson's version. It makes three pretenders playable who aren't and I personally like his new freak lord, something you'd never hear someone say in regular CBM.

[jimkehn]

Not gonna be in the game guys. Sorry.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Well we haven't gone past the point of no return yet. Plenty of time to change.

Once again, especially to those who signed up after the first announcement of this:

If you want to use ChrisPederson's version of CBM, please say so! It's almost like everyone ignored me the first time I said it, so I'll PM this to all current players.

The mod can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yFUtJhUb7Q&eurl=http://onceuponawin.com/page/16/&feature=player_embedded

Changes are listed in the Readme. Look it over and decide if you want it or not.

[Incabulos]

I hav eno preference either way :) as long as it is CBM of some sort.

[Meglobob]

I hav eno preference either way :) as long as it is CBM of some sort.

Same here.

We are not ignoring you, just happy with whatever you want to do.:)

Having said that, the above link takes me to a video not a mod.

[Incabulos]

I hav eno preference either way :) as long as it is CBM of some sort.

Same here.

We are not ignoring you, just happy with whatever you want to do.:)

Having said that, the above link takes me to a video not a mod.

Heh I thought the RickRoll had returned.

[JimMorrison]

The 1.41 post doesn't list what "minor" changes were made, I thought it was mostly typos, and a few tweaks to the Bogarus units.

Personally, I have the official 1.41 here, and I would suggest that we just use that. The -ONLY- problem with it is the Blindlords with A8, and we are not playing with LA Agartha in this game, so moot point.

If people are terribly bothered by the thought of having that mod just for this game, then bleh, I don't know what to tell you. :p In that case I would vote for original 1.4 release, QM states that it solves many of the problems from 1.3 and I've played a LOT of turns in 1.3, and noticed few if any real problems, so 1.4 must be awesome. :happy:

[Starshine_Monarch]

I hav eno preference either way :) as long as it is CBM of some sort.

Same here.

We are not ignoring you, just happy with whatever you want to do.:)

Having said that, the above link takes me to a video not a mod.

:doh: I don't know how that link got there, I'll have it fixed in a jiffy.

Edit: Okay, this is the for reals link to the Modified CBM in case any of you want to look it over.

Readme is rather short so I'll post that here:

1.44 Changes (Not official mod, based on QM's great 1.41 CBM mod).


A. Freak Lord updated. Added 1 blood path, second shape, blood vengeance. Weapons need to be tweaked.
B. Scorpion Updated. Better thug chassis.
C. Skratti Pretender. Increased blood path. Added douse bonus.
D. Fixed Black Bull.
E. Fixed Agartha Blind Fighter
F. Hoburg priest costs reduced in line with other hoburg reductions.
G. Divine Emperor, reduces chance of bad luck. Awe. Still not competitive.
H. Wolves add a pb+1. As it was they were less effective at patrolling that humans.
I. Summon Umbral reduced to Conj 6
J. Blood Henge druids dousing bonus toned down slightly.
K. Succubus given an incubus form.

[JimMorrison]

1.44 Changes (Not official mod, based on QM's great 1.41 CBM mod).


A. Freak Lord updated. Added 1 blood path, second shape, blood vengeance. Weapons need to be tweaked.
B. Scorpion Updated. Better thug chassis.
C. Skratti Pretender. Increased blood path. Added douse bonus.
D. Fixed Black Bull.
E. Fixed Agartha Blind Fighter
F. Hoburg priest costs reduced in line with other hoburg reductions.
G. Divine Emperor, reduces chance of bad luck. Awe. Still not competitive.
H. Wolves add a pb+1. As it was they were less effective at patrolling that humans.
I. Summon Umbral reduced to Conj 6
J. Blood Henge druids dousing bonus toned down slightly.
K. Succubus given an incubus form.

< shrug > Sign me up? :happy:

[Starshine_Monarch]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7673&d=1233461962

Does this link work? This is the for reals for reals link to the Chrispederson CBM for those that don't have it. Law of Averages says I have to post this correctly eventually.

[AlgaeNymph]

If you want to use ChrisPederson's version of CBM, please say so!Yes, I'd like to.

[rtyffg]

I'd agree to edited CBM.

[Dragar]

indifferent

[P3D]

CBM 1.41, just to have a different opinion :P

[Stretch]

I'd like to play LA Jotunheim if there's still time to get in!

[Starshine_Monarch]

You're just in time, Stretch, and with that, recruiting is finally closed. All may now upload pretenders created with chrispederson's cCBM 1.44 mod. The mod is now linked in the Opening Post. (And yes, it's the actual, working link this time.)

[Scarlioni]

Will do my bestest to upload my pretender later tonight.

[Scarlioni]

I wouldn't object if someone posted idiot proof step by step inscructions on how it's done!

[Starshine_Monarch]

There's no such thing as idiot proof anymore. Idiots tend to adapt after several generations, sort of like cockroaches. However, I will do my best to make sure you newbies know what you're doing.

Step 1: Activate the mods we are using and create a pretender god for your nation.

Step 2: You remember where you installed the Dominions 3 folder right? Go in there and find a folder called "savedgames". Inside that folder is another folder called "newlords". Look for the era and nation name of your nation in the filename of the .2h files in the folder. If there are multiple files for the same nation and era, the highest numbered one is the latest pretender created, and probably the one you want (for example late_mictlan_0.2h).

Step 3: Attach this file to an e-mail and send it to pretenders@llamaserver.net. Make sure you include the game's name, (Betelgeuse, in case you forgot :p).

Step 4: There is no step 4. You're done. In case you want to change your pretender before the game actually starts, you can create another and send it to Llamaserver the same way you did the first. Llamaserver will replace your old pretender with the revised one.

[Scarlioni]

Gratis

[pyg]

I don't mean to be a pain, but can I switch to LA Gath? I'm already tired of Midgard although I hadn't played it much before I signed up.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Not a problem Pyg. If anyone else wants to make a last minute change in nation, please let me know. I've disabled automatic start just in case this question should arise.

[erios]

Bye my name is Erios, Can play whit Pythium MA, sorry for time...

Erios
(erio.lusvardi@aliceposta.it)

[erios]

I reeding only now,play only peaple whit blood...
O.k.

Bye Erios

[Incabulos]

will upload my pretender shortly.

[Incabulos]

uploaded... let's get ready to ruuuuuumble

[Starshine_Monarch]

Alrighty, everyone's in, let's begin.

GAME ON!

[Incabulos]

doesn't look like it auto started

[chrispedersen]

Starshine turned auto start off a few posts ago.. I thik he needs to remember to start the game.

[Incabulos]

I checked in the settings and now it is set to start when all pretenders are in. But maybe since he set that up after they allw ere in it won't auto start since it won't get the triggering last pretender uploaded.

I will resend my pretender and see if that triggers it to autostart.

Edit: Didn't trigger autostart (which is now enabled)

[Starshine_Monarch]

I did turn off Autostart, but I most certainly set the game to begin right after I posted last time. I figured it just took a little while to work.

Anyway, I did "Start Game Now" again just now, we'll see if that works.

[Incabulos]

I think it might have something to do with single age.

I think you should set that as an option on llamaserver rather than as a mod or something similar to that at any rate.

[JimMorrison]

That would be a weird inconsistency, but at this point, it's sort of moot. Just PM Llama and ask him to do a manual start. I feel bad, he's got a lot on his plate right now, but it only takes but a moment, I am sure he's got other people making much larger requests, some of them with much less need, but more urgency. ;)

[Starshine_Monarch]

I'd like to see if I can at least get this working myself first, that way we won't need to bug him unless it's necessary. There seemed to be two different versions of Chrispederson's CBM mod there, and I wonder if I just picked the wrong one. I changed it to the other one and did another manual start. Let's see if this one works.

[chrispedersen]

The version to use is the last one on the list - the first one also works - the second one merely fixes a description error.

[Incabulos]

Yeah I think it is more to do with how you make the game all ages. I know one version of all ages does not work with llama, another does and also llama has the option to select all ages as a game setting rather than as a mod.

[JimMorrison]

Well, I just looked, and:


Game: Betelgeuse
Multiple Age, max 15 players
Players so far: 15

Map: Asia Twist
Mods: Single Age Mod, Streamers & Standards, chrispedersen version of CBM


The first one, indicates that "Single Age" was selected as a game option. The second, indicates that Single Age Mod was selected in the mod options.

In my experience, the files are in fact identical, and interchangeable (other than slight filename difference), -however- if both are selected, the game tends to not want to start, just like this. :(

[Starshine_Monarch]

The Single Age Mod wasn't even in the mod options, so I just set it as Multi-age in the game settings.

[llamabeast]

Er, so, there's a parameter for games which haven't started yet, which gives a time (in seconds since the start of 1970!) before which the game's not allowed to start. It's not a feature that's actually used though, so it's always set to zero. Somehow for this game it was set to 1234567804! Which is very odd and mysterious, and we may never know why.

Anyway, I changed it to zero, and the game's just started.

Also there used to be confusion with a choice between a "Multi" age game (which works) and choosing the single age mod manually (which doesn't). I've removed the mod from the list now though, to remove that confusion (it was user-uploaded in the first place).

[klagrok]

Ok---Single Age worked fine for Timewarp--but cant seem to get it to work here. Keeps wanting the SingleAgeComplete.dm file. Had Timewarp running on "Single Age" folder with 'Single Age mod.dm" file in the folder and in the MOD section. Now every time I try to get this game to run get the same fricking message. Followed the 'rules' at the beginning of this thread, even though I already had it set up as such. HALP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh even redownloaded on some off chance MOD was modified. Same dates for the files so assuming that isnt the reason. Looks like time to head back to school..... :p

[rdonj]

If you created your pretender with the other mod running, I think you'll have to have that mod in order to play the game.

It might be best to close this game and re-submit pretenders using only the proper mod to make sure everything runs smoothly.

[klagrok]

Figured it out---just kept the file as "SingleAgeComplete.dm" and worked fine--until I realized I needed llama's streamers :D

[Meglobob]

Yea, it works fine, as long as you ignore the 1st post about renaming the single age mod.

Essentially download that mod in the 1st post BUT DO NOT RENAME IT and bingo your good to go.

No need to re-submit pretenders.:)

As you can see, several players have already done there turns overcoming any small 1st turn glitches.

[klagrok]

Yeah had to rename the file and folder for Timewarp--so next Single Age I try Ill just try the SAC.dm first and then the S A mod.dm 2nd if it doesnt work.

[JimMorrison]

The pretender file does not save any information directly relating to the mods that were active on creation, name of the files or otherwise.

The only mods you ever actually -need- to have active to create your pretender, are mods that affect pretender selection, or costs, OR nation mods that may be applicable for the game.

When the game is started, it just looks at the data without any thought as to what is a mod or not, it just loads the files, pulls the relevant info from the database, and checks spent points to make sure that all is proper and legal.

At that point, then you must have the same mods (or really, just any .dm files matching the name of the files used to create the game) in order to open the turn, but again, the turn doesn't have -any- of the mod data within it, so you could have empty text files, or totally different mods renamed in your folder, and the turn will run, but you will observe very strange behavior on your end, and you could potentially send in corrupted turns that cause hosting errors.

Don't know if any of that clears up anything that needed clearing up, but there you go. ;)

[Stretch]

Got SingleAgeComplete.dm as well as the other two in my folder and it's working fine. :)

[AlgaeNymph]

I don't mean to be a pain but the game turns were sent to the wrong e-mail address (fixed now though). Could we please restart?

[JimMorrison]

Oh my.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.....

How does it get sent to the wrong email? It automatically sets the email to the one that sent the pretender file, so..... :doh:

[Starshine_Monarch]

Well, according to the Pretenders of the World report, chrispederson grabbed MA Mictlan instead of EA Mictlan, thereby making him the only nation (Mictlan of all things) in the game without natural Blood.

Since it's so early in the game, restarting is not much trouble. However, I'll be leaving for Florida tomorrow, so I won't start the game back up until I get back next Thursday.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Game has been un-started. It is now back to the "Waiting for Pretenders" screen. Game is now officially on hiatus until I return from vacation.

[llamabeast]

Please ignore the false extra start there, that was a glitch.

[Meglobob]

Well, if we are having a restart (which I have absolutely no problem with btw) can I drop out of the game. I have looked into my crystal ball and in the summer, when this game really gets going I am going to be too busy to play.

Sorry about that guys! If its possible just delete Ea Helheim pretender when re-starting or if anyone wants to join and play Ea Helheim, feel free to upload your pretender file over mine.

I would have liked to play but just not enough hours in the day.:(

[chrispedersen]

Huh.. Obviously I sent the wrong pretender to the wrong game. Mea culpa. I'm just glad we restarted *before* this was noticed.

I'll send the right pretender tonight if I'm allowed.

[klagrok]

Delete me as well---four games is enough :)

[chrispedersen]

Sorry to see you go klag - you were in my first mp game here.

[klagrok]

heck Chris, ya brought me back. One of the games might be over by then...pretty sure Megablob about to squish me out of existence in Qwerty. Just hope I get the same starting spot I had last time :)

[chrispedersen]

YAy! Welcome back!

[JimMorrison]

Yeah, my start spot had Sauromatia written all over it. I licked it. Then I peed in the corner. Remember that if you get it. :shock:

You were also in my first MP, Klagrok, glad you're with us. 8 )

[chrispedersen]

Star has asked me to stand in while he's away, if there's anything that really requires administrative work.

[Stretch]

In a holding pattern until we get this thing going for real!

[Scarlioni]

We get new starting positions!
NO!

Guess you cant get ur favorite capitol spot every time

[chrispedersen]

QM has decided to sub for star until star's return. so I am going to start the game as soon as I verify all the dead nations are gone = )

[quantum_mechani]

Hmm, I seem constantly out of sync with this game (it's my only one on 24h), I'll need another 2-3 hours on the clock to be able to get my turn in.

[chrispedersen]

Game delayed 3 hours per request.
I think this will be the last turn QM submits .. so I'd like to say thanks again.

Tempted to have QM 'sub' my position for a few turns so he can improve it as well = )

[Starshine_Monarch]

Thank you all for being patient with me. As of this moment, I am now back in business.

[chrispedersen]

I'd like to compliment rtyffg on a brilliant choice of nations.

Having carrion woods pre researched on difficult research game was a brilliant choice.

That 6 nature and 3 death income - on top of his normal nature income is huge this early. And non dispellable. And I presume he's projecting dominion into his neighbors....

Anyone know what section of the world he is?

[rtyffg]

That global is not as impressive as you present it.
Yes, it does give some gem income. It does bring some chaff. But it does kill people.
So neigbours have yet to consider, wheter it is better to attack Pangaea (and have siege it for long time (up to 30 turns in some cases)), or wait till it makes Pan's own lands useless and weakened.

[Incabulos]

if you own plenty of forest and put temples in those forests it produces way more than some chaff. Growth, Strong Dominion, Forest + Temple and you get a regular supply of pretty fine creatures from that province.

But yes generally it produces chafftastic amounts of chaff.

[Dragar]

To put it another way, if pan's neighbours wait for Carrion Woods to deplete its population, there will be little left worth conquering. An early attack is the only way to ensure maximum spoils. Every turn the return keeps dropping..

[Scarlioni]

A few questions.

What was meant by pre research the spell? Isn't a level 0 spell in this mod? Or do you mean he had his pretender pre configured for it?

He must of been site searching and alchmizing to produce the needed 50+ gems?

It's death scale that improves the result of this spell? From the text of the spell itself it sounds like +growth dominion improves the effects.

Tune of Dancing death 31+stun dmage aoe 25.
Guys that just seems wrong to me some how. What are the counters to this? Anti magic, archers and ranged damage... What else?

[JimMorrison]

What was meant by pre research the spell? Isn't a level 0 spell in this mod? Or do you mean he had his pretender pre configured for it?

Level 0, so he can cast it from turn 1, and yes he'd need to design his pretender specifically for that purpose.


Tune of Dancing death 31+stun dmage aoe 25.
Guys that just seems wrong to me some how. What are the counters to this? Anti magic, archers and ranged damage... What else?

It's Point Blank AOE. So, beating on the caster with sticks, is one effective counter. :p

[rtyffg]

It's death scale that improves the result of this spell? From the text of the spell itself it sounds like +growth dominion improves the effects.


1) Tried some tests, and it seems, +growth increases chaff numbers, nothing seems to increase gem output from it.


What was meant by pre research the spell? Isn't a level 0 spell in this mod? Or do you mean he had his pretender pre configured for it?

Level 0, so he can cast it from turn 1, and yes he'd need to design his pretender specifically for that purpose.


Tune of Dancing death 31+stun dmage aoe 25.
Guys that just seems wrong to me some how. What are the counters to this? Anti magic, archers and ranged damage... What else?

It's Point Blank AOE. So, beating on the caster with sticks, is one effective counter. :p

1) 1-st turn cast does not seem possible. Site searching is helpful, but MA PAN have a 5N income, alloving to cast it on turn 10 without search (most Early possible cast is at turn 7 without gem events)

2) Tune of Dancing death - it is not reliable enough, if an enemy is in range for it, then mage is probably doomed already.

[chrispedersen]

Tune of Dancing death - it is not reliable enough, if an enemy is in range for it, then mage is probably doomed already.

That is not true, at all. Pan probably has a carrion dragon; he will be trying to fight within his dominion. In that case he will have between 240 and 320 hp around now.

Even without an undead priests healing him (an excellent tactic courtesy of cleveland) a carrion dragon may have awe, and will have significant fear.

Personally, I prefer tune of growth over tune of death - especially with an obscene fear aura - but either works. And the carrion dragon has recuperation to take care of any afflictions that occur.

Combine that with a centaur reanimated priest or prophet casting pangeas buffs - very potent indeed.

[rtyffg]

Hmm, carrion dragon with awe, and carrion woods tends to eat up too much design points, at least when trying to make it awakened.

[JimMorrison]

I would think that the most efficient design would be Dormant, with the exact paths needed to cast Carrion Woods, and with a Dominion around 7. You only -need- the Awe for solo work, but with Carrion Woods you will have readily available chaff to help screen the dragon..... If you have any buffers to assist, then it becomes a force that is almost invincible throughout the second year.

The question is, can the slow-ish first year expansion, and the Carrion spawn from that small amount of territories, be made up for with a second year rush, and is there a neighbor near enough who is grabbing their ankles in anticipation of the coming of the dragon? ;) (of course, graphs show Pan above the middle of the pack, so expansion has been adequate thus far, anyways)

[chrispedersen]

I was not meaning to say that I thought Pan had awe; I was trying to say that by no means is tune of dancing death or tune of growth unworkable.

Done correctly, Gorgons, Pans, Dryads, and Carrion Dragons can make effective use of these spells, right off the top of my head. So can the harpy queen hero.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
As for design choices: T3S3HXG3L3M1 leaves lots of points....

[JimMorrison]

I would imagine that spell in particular, is aimed precisely at Dryads who can safely hide tucked within size 2 line troops, and can avert most attacks that are directed at them, with their own Awe.

[Stretch]

I did not receive any turn updates after I sent in turn 13... is it a problem with my email or with the server? I've received everything else fine until now!

[Dragar]

llamaserver shows your turn as being received - you are utgard yes?

p.s. check your inbox if you haven't already

[Stretch]

Turn 13 said it was due by 1500 GMT Thursday, but I guess it got delayed a bit. I just got turn 14 and a note that says "The next 2h file is due in by 06:05 GMT on Saturday March 7th." so I'm good, thanks. Is there a command to see what turn each game on llamaserver is on?

[JimMorrison]

Turn 13 said it was due by 1500 GMT Thursday, but I guess it got delayed a bit. I just got turn 14 and a note that says "The next 2h file is due in by 06:05 GMT on Saturday March 7th." so I'm good, thanks. Is there a command to see what turn each game on llamaserver is on?

Llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/)

Try that.

[Stretch]

Great, thanks for the tip!

[Starshine_Monarch]

I won't be able to submit my turn tomorrow, so I'm going to have to delay hosting for a day.

[P3D]

I'll have somewhat sporadic internet access from Thursday for two weeks, would it be possible to switch to the extended turn periods by then - only a little earlier than the 20th?

[Starshine_Monarch]

Sure, I don't see a problem with that. I'll switch it to 48 hour hosting tomorrow.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Looks like that's curtains for me. I just lost nearly all my army to an offensive number of Minotaurs and Maenads, and now Sauromatia decides it wants a piece of me too. There's just no way for me to hold out against two huge armies at this point, so it looks like it's AI for Lanka.

I will still be admining this game however, so if anyone has any problems, drop me a PM.

[JimMorrison]

I wondered what was going on with you. You were just sitting there looking all small and juicy. <3

But that means I have to fight some stinky minotaurs over your capital? That's silly. I hope Pan knows what I can do to their Maenads. ;)

[Starshine_Monarch]

Yeah, I couldn't expand fast enough, so it's understandable why you and Pan thought that. I've never played Lanka before anyway, so at least I know now this strategy won't work.

[JimMorrison]

I find Lanka to be amazingly fun to play. You should just give them some more SP practice, it took me a bit of SP with them to figure out how to bring all of their tools together.

I'll drop you a note, the least I can do in exchange for your capital, is offer you some useful advice. ;)

[P3D]

Now we are back again to 24hr automatic turns. I won't be able to keep up with that.

[chrispedersen]

This last turn and this one- I am not getting turns is anyone else having the same problem?

After I reset the email address and reseent - I got the turn.

[klagrok]

Got my turn fine Chris. Not sure what is happening on your end.

[Starshine_Monarch]

As you've probably noticed, Llamaserver is having technical difficulties at the moment. Just take it easy for a while, we'll all be back on the warpath tomorrow, or the day after probably.

[Stretch]

Is hosting going to go back to its normal time period at some point?

[Scarlioni]

I assume the reason I havent recieved a turn for awhile is the patching process.

I've got no worries and no hurries, just naxious to see how my battles turn out.

[Stretch]

Do I submit turn 21 with the old version or new version of the game? I submitted with the old version awhile ago and Llamaserver seemed fine with it...

[P3D]

I assume the reason I havent recieved a turn for awhile is the patching process.

I've got no worries and no hurries, just naxious to see how my battles turn out.

You can ask for resend turn file, down on the page.
Version numbers should not matter.

[P3D]

Could we kick the game back into a higher gear?

[Dragar]

what, like neutral? ;)

[Scarlioni]

Following this thread with concern. I don't believe I've missed a turn. Everytime I check llamaserver it says my turn file has been recieved.

Idiot proof please... Is any action required by myself.

[Scarlioni]

The nation of LA Mictaln humbly and graciously accepts the offer of peace extended by EA Mictlan. NAP 3+

[chrispedersen]

EA Mictlan accepts as well - according to the details in my email to our younger brother.

On other subjects: MA Pangea has staled 4 of the last 5. Can a sub be found or can he be set to AI?

[chrispedersen]

EA Mictlan accepts as well - according to the details in my email to our younger brother.

On other subjects: MA Pangea has staled 4 of the last 5. Can a sub be found or can he be set to AI?

On other, other subjects: The status page for this game only shows 8 players. At least for me. LA Gath is missing completely, as are others. Anyone have an idea why?

[JimMorrison]

If they're not on Status page of Llama, that implies they've gone AI already. I'm too lazy to check in game right now though.

[Scarlioni]

You still claim to talk peace after your perposterous, perfidious, and putred actions! Your emasarries send word that one province would be the price of a lasting peace, and we agreed.

Truly you come talking peace with a gilded tounge whilest holding a dagger in your hand.

Care to explain why on the turn commencing this vacuaous peace my troops are parading the head of your so called prophet between the great temples of the one true Mictlan?

Fortunately our armies were prudently showing the flag along our borders when this betrayal occured.

You want peace! The rightful Mictlan will leave you in pieces!

I call upon the nations of Betelguese to assit in vanquishing this vile oath breaker.

Bogoffrogs has spoken.

[chrispedersen]

Interesting choice of words since you attacked me first, and I have the turn file to prove it.

After you attacked I offered peace. I said that it was going to cost you *one* territory, but the cost was going to increase every turn.

Its not my fault you waited *three* turns! And now that I'm there - well you'll forgive me - but perhaps its time to enjoy the view.

As for the prophet - I can't actually stomach just running them in and killing them - so I try to get good use out of them. But I have undead hero just *dying* to be the next prophet. Well, no, thats not literally true as he's already dead. But the principle, the principle!

[Scarlioni]

I was trying to 'liberate' poor Vomi from your clutches.

As you requested, I will publically state that you attempted to make peace with me with private forum messages. Being ignorant that this was the accepted method of diplomacy I never checked my priavte messages after my brief communication with Star Shine Monarch on how to mail in my pretender, how to use mods, etc...

I had been trying to use the in game messages to conduct diplomacy. Using the in game message system I had believed we had agreed to a NAP last turn. Not knowing to check the forum message system I was unaware that further stipulations had been added for peace.

However, that said. Pratically calling me Luke Skywalker and your pathetic mewling for peace deserves a declaration of WAR

[Dragar]

What a shame, mictlan vs mictlan. We're all terribly, terribly sad at this turn of events. Think of all the poor virgins slaughtered at the altar and not an infidel in sight. Awful really. Tears. Big ones. I'd say my heart was bleeding but I'm afraid someone would take it for its reinvig bonus.

[Incabulos]

virgin chick fights... Huzzah! <pulls up a chair>

[chrispedersen]

Hey!

I'm going away for easter, leaving good friday. I return Monday. Can we turn off hosting for that time? (Or maybe leave quickhosting on)....?

[klagrok]

Chris, make sure you delete some of your messages in our box--just tried to send you one and it said you were 'full'. Happy Easter.

[chrispedersen]

Ea Mictlan is looking for water breathing items, barrels of air, manuals of water breathing etc to aid with our underwater, um, exploration. And where would you rather Mictlan to explore.. underwater or above it?


Magic items to trade, and gems or gold of course.

[chrispedersen]

Game politics aside, I am absolutely *amazed* at what Jim has done in this game.

113 gems / turn with 47 provinces... is more than 2.5 gems on average for EVERY SINGLE province. Unbelievable. With no plateau in site.. it just keeps going.. up.

[JimMorrison]

Always get Death searched first, there are significantly more available Death sites than any other, right?

That used to be a dual edged sword, since it would hamper your diversity a bit if you got early luck with Death. Now, Monthly searches will go back over, and find what you missed in the first pass. I love it. 8 )

[chrispedersen]

Speaking on other matters, in the Dome thread Executor mentioned stacking multiple domes.

There is a bug on stacking multiple domes; as with all games exploiting bugs is against the rules. So I wanted to bring it up and makes sure people were aware of it before it became an issue in game....

[P3D]

The more expansionistic parties already have several capitals under control BTW.

[chrispedersen]

If by several you mean.. one!
Did Jim get Lanka and Pan?

[chrispedersen]

May I request an extension? I have (or will have shortly) the current turns in. However, I have been called out of town Wed/Thursday, and so would like a 36 hour extension, delaying any processing on thursday to Fri/sat?

[JimMorrison]

I could really use an extra 6 hours to get this turn in properly - hope you get this in time. :o

[chrispedersen]

Dryaunda: willing to complete your trade request: Please check your messages.

[JimMorrison]

Well, I managed to stale again.

I'll see if I can keep in it if we extend the timer to 72h, but if people don't want that, then I should probably offer this position up for a sub.

[Dragar]

I may need a delay later this week. I am going in for corrective eye surgery (lasik) on Thursday, and am not sure how long until I'm seeing well enough to play. My guess is two days.

I'll play every turn I have available Thursday morning my time (late wed night US), which means nothing will be due for at least a day, but may not be able to play turns then, and even if I can probably shouldn't be staring at a screen.

So, if we can either put a delay in then, or if the admin can keep an eye out and if I haven't got a turn in I'd really appreciate it. Obviously as soon as I'm ok I'll play turns and post.

If for whatever reason I'm not back longer than people are prepared to wait, I'll wear a stale or two - don't think I've vanished and waste time searching for an AI.

If I don't come back for ages please look up a good eye specialist for me because mine obviously hasn't done his job right!

Thanks,
Dragar

[P3D]

ChrisP,

If I counted correctly, you'd have 5 capitals out of six needed for victory - but correct me if not.

[chrispedersen]

No, thats incorrect.

[Stretch]

Here's the capital ownership as it currently stands, as far as I know:

- EA Lanka: JimMorrison
- EA Sauromatia: JimMorrison
- EA Mictlan: chrispederson
- EA Hinnom: P3D
- EA Abysia: DryaUnda

- MA Pangaea: JimMorrison
- MA Vanheim: chrispederson
- MA Jotunheim: klagrok

- LA Abysia: Dragar
- LA Ulm: P3D
- LA Gath: chrispederson
- LA Marignon: chrispederson
- LA Mictlan: Scarlioni
- LA Utgard: Stretch

Good luck with the eye surgery, Dragar! I don't mind waiting, and we could use a sub for Jim as well.

[chrispedersen]

I have asked Star to set Ulm AI.

[JimMorrison]

So I staled again..... I simply have to give this excellent to position to someone else, before it is ruined due to inactivity.

Check people you know - this is not your typical "it could be an interesting position". I LOVE this game, and wish I could have kept giving it the attention that it deserves.

[P3D]

IMO we should pause this game until we find a sub for Sauromatia.

[chrispedersen]

Perhaps rather than force Jim to hand off a position he has worked so hard for what would people think about increasing the hosting time 12-24 hrs?

[Stretch]

That's fine with me. It'd be nice if Jim could finish things out.

[klagrok]

24 hrs sounds good.

[P3D]

Do we have an admin after all?

[chrispedersen]

Yes, I just haven't heard any consensus on what people want to do.

[Stretch]

We really need a sub for Jim. Even if he stales this turn his position is still great. A newer player would be fine too... he could just unleash the fury on the entire world and we'd still have trouble taking him down.

I vote to pause the game until we get a replacement for Jim. I also vote to increase the turn hosting times at least until we find a replacement, if we don't wind up pausing it.

[P3D]

Either a new sub or extending the turn so it would suit Jim.
Definitely not an AI Sauro.

[chrispedersen]

Hey Guys:

Its a little unusual for players to request a delay for a different player, one that is still involved in the game.

It is often explained that stales are part of the game, and I have seen many other players take advantage of a staling opponent.

It is unfortunate, that this discussion to delay or not to delay may well decide who wins the game. It is my personal opinion that if the game goes 20-25 more turns Sauromatia wins. Delaying the game definitely hurts my chances of winning it.

The roll of the administrator is to grant a players requests for dealing with real world problems. And to deal with players performance that is so bad that it affects the quality of the game overall. Usually this is defined by three stales in a row.

In the interest of sportsmanship, I propose to delay the game 6 hours. In the interim, I (and I suggest others) email Jim and see if he can get his turn in.

If Jim then wishes postphonements, they will be granted, just like for any player. Likewise, if Jim wishes to increase the turn processing time. Jim has logged on today, hopefully he will again.

[chrispedersen]

I see back on the 5/9 Jim requested extending the game to 72 hours. I'm making that change now, unless someone objects.

[Starshine_Monarch]

I postponed the hosting another 24 hours in case we need it.

[P3D]

I need a few hours (say 4) delay to post my turn this evening.

[chrispedersen]

I need a few hours (say 4) delay to post my turn this evening.

Done.

[P3D]

Thanks, submitted in time.

[chrispedersen]

Jim has staled three turns in a row, and I haven't heard from him in over a week. Nor has he gotten any takers on his subbing.

I am going to post for someone to set him to AI (and or sub).

[shard]

I'll be subbing for Sauromatia.

PM me any existing agreements, deals, threats, bribes, tributes etcetc.
Err... i'm also having trouble telling the nations apart. Any suggestions?

[chrispedersen]

The full might of Sauromatia is about to be revealed.

Jim has a history of going for artifacts, - thats probably the biggest area his stales hurt - because I suspsect someone else has picked them up.

[chrispedersen]

Anyway as y'all can see, shard has graciously offered to pick up Sauromatia's position.

I will be extending the timer if he has any difficulty getting the turn in.

[shard]

I should be ok with the timer, will be putting on finishing touches to my turn.

[P3D]

Sorry for stalling, the conference I am at is more interesting than I suspected.

[chrispedersen]

I find today that I am going to be out of the country from Friday noon till Monday noon. I'll postphone hosting as appropriate.

[AlgaeNymph]

(psst, Chris, your inbox is full again.)

[P3D]

I'd like to gratulate ChrisP for taking my capital, and unless someone thinks that they can take some capitals back in the following few turns the game is over.

[Dragar]

Surely only sauromatia can hope to stop mictlan, rather than feast on the decaying carcass that is LA Abysia?

[shard]

Oh, hmm. So all the places with the squiggly lines are the capitals are they? I think all of Sauro's scouts died during the staling so i have very little idea of whats going on, and i've had no PMs from anyone other than mictlan; for all I know I'm at war with everyone BUT mictlan :p
However seeing what all the high level summons look like is pretty enjoyable but if anyone wants gems to dispel the ritual pls ask. For all the nice items in my closet there was a distinct lack of S boosters so I've had to make em from scratch. Judging from the lack of activity however I get the impression ppl just want this game to be over?

PS - Dragar; It was YOU who started it :p

[P3D]

I have the feeling that ChrisP was blood hunting for 10 turns or so in order to cast Astral Corruption with 999 slaves. You only need an S9-S10 caster and 1019 astral gems to have a chance to dispel it. Doable if you have enough clams.

[Dragar]

PS - Dragar; It was YOU who started it :p

Oh I'm not complaining ;) just mentioning that yours is the only chance to possibly stop mictlan and perhaps win. I'm indifferent at this stage and was testing out what an archdevil is like as an SC.

[Stretch]

Chris has about 1 million forts pumping out highly blessed jaguar warriors so I doubt anyone's going to stop him. BUT THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD in certain select provinces. I hope for the chance to put a few more armies to the werewolf before this game is up.

[Dragar]

LA Abysia out, enjoy the endgame!

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys,

given that I've had the required capitals for 2 turns now, and no capital can be stormed, does anyone object to just calling it now? Game is guaranteed over....

[Stretch]

I don't object. Nicely played Chris. Your expansion and fort production was pretty impressive.

[chrispedersen]

Thanks Stretch & everyone...

Without objection then I'll end the game before the next hosting.

I'd love to say it was my superior abilities - but I think its that mictlan is just that strong. Thank you Star for organizing the game... Thanks to Scarlioni for being a great ally (after backstabbing me!). Thanks to Jim Morrison; to shard for picking up Jim's position.

Good Gaming & best wishes to all.

[shard]

GG

Perhaps I could have done more if I picked it up earlier, but I'm not sure how the ritual would be preventable anyways.

Any chance of the game being continuable in SP mode? I want to see what the other Demon Lords are like....