noob: how to get troops underwater

[ajoin007]

Hi,

i am playing the nation with the ice giants but i want to attach oceania. How do i get my troops to breath underwater.

And if i would play oceania how would i get to let my troops walk on the land

[Darkwind]

I assume you mean Niefelheim? They have water magic, so I'd suggest researching Construction and forging some items that give Water Breathing (for example the Sea King's goblet at Construction 6, which gives Water Breathing 100, or enough for 100 troops). There's also a global enchantment, Thetis' Blessing, that allows all land troops to enter the water.

Unfortunately, water nations have received no such love and aquatic troops can't really ever enter land, from what I know.

[ajoin007]

problem is i cant find earth gems to produce objects so i cant empower my mages.

are there other spells so i can enter water zones.

[thejeff]

Though the Amulet of the Fish (W1A1) allows aquatic commanders to enter land provinces.

All aquatic nations have at least some land troops. EA Oceania has various types of Mermen, for example.

[Darkwind]

problem is i cant find earth gems to produce objects so i cant empower my mages.

are there other spells so i can enter water zones.You don't need earth gems. The Sea King's Goblet is W3, which all Niefel Jarls get. According to the manual, that's 15 water gems, which is hopefully not too bad.

And, like I said, Thetis' blessing is the only way other way I know of, short of buying amphibious commanders and troops, to get units underwater. It's W5, so with a Robe of the Sea and Water Bracelet, you're good to go.

[lch]

Pills of Water Breathing (2A) transport 20.
Manual of Water Breathing (3N 1W) transports 50.
Sea King's Goblet (3W) transports 100.
Barrel of Air (4A) transports 150.
Orb of Atlantis (4W 1E) transports 200.

If you're short of some gems, you can alchemize them. First, alchemize any gem type to astral pearls, then astral pearls to what you want. The conversion ratio is 2:1 in both cases.

[JimMorrison]

Also remember, those figures should be in terms of "human sized" (or Size 2) troops. Giants vary between Size 4-6, so you'll have to pay attention to that, and figure accordingly.

[Endoperez]

Good point from JimMorrison.

Waterbreathing items' capabilities are affected by size. You can only take 10 giants (size 4) with an item that would allow you take 20 humans.

[Quitti]

Niefel Giants/Jarls are size 5, other jotun giants size 4, so 20 humans -> 8 niefel giants/jarls or 10 "normal" jotuns.

[vfb]

You can also hire or summon some water mages to bring your troops underwater. Sea King's court gives you a W3 mage, a bunch of aquatic trolls, and the Sea King can bring more units underwater without having to make breathing items. This post lists the number of human-sized units the water mages can bring underwater:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=661680&postcount=25

[NTJedi]

You might need to explore the recruitable independents along the shore as a few places might provide special amphibian types for purchase... thus no need for magic.
This is usually the easiest and fastest way to move into the water provinces.

On a side note the Independent Land AIs are terrible about attacking water provinces which provides the human player a huge advantage. If playing against AIs you'll eventually stop playing with water provinces because the human player has such a strong advantage.

[lch]

Also remember, those figures should be in terms of "human sized" (or Size 2) troops. Giants vary between Size 4-6, so you'll have to pay attention to that, and figure accordingly.
I could be wrong, but I think that the numbers that Darkwind and I posted are for Size 1 troops. For bigger sized troops, divide accordingly.

[Panpiper]

On a side note the Independent Land AIs are terrible about attacking water provinces which provides the human player a huge advantage. If playing against AIs you'll eventually stop playing with water provinces because the human player has such a strong advantage.

I like having delimiting 'terrain' on my maps which water provides for. I do not however like the problems water provinces have with the AI. My solution is that I use the 'Deadly Seas' mod. This effectively rules out going into the water, period. Water becomes simply the edge of the map and the game is played on land.

[JimMorrison]

Also remember, those figures should be in terms of "human sized" (or Size 2) troops. Giants vary between Size 4-6, so you'll have to pay attention to that, and figure accordingly.
I could be wrong, but I think that the numbers that Darkwind and I posted are for Size 1 troops. For bigger sized troops, divide accordingly.

Stop following me around and making me appear only partially informed. :p

<3

[Agema]

Also, be warned units that are not amphibious will take sizeable combat negatives underwater when (if) you get them there: -3Att -3Def as I recall, and an AP penalty so they'll be pretty slow. Plan your army accordingly, as you'll need a stronger army than to take out roughly equivalent land forces.

Make sure - in MP at least - that if attacking someone else you have adequate defences (good MR, guarding troops, chaff leaders) for your commander as well. If they are killed they take their waterbreathing item with them and your troops will drown.

[Dedas]

Talk about putting your life in the hand of your commander - literally.

[JimMorrison]

"Alright, listen up, maggots! You see these pills? They will let you breathe underwater for 24 hours. Take your pill NOW, I'll give you another one tomorrow - I promise."

:eek:

[Darkwind]

I think I'd like the Sea King's Goblet better. Drink from a king's cup every day, and get to hang with mermaids as a bonus (though you might get stuck with an icky Ichtyid). :D

[thejeff]

How about Barrel of Air? 75 people lined up to get gulps of air from one barrel?

Maybe they have hoses...

[Darkwind]

That brings up another question: why do nature levels bring supplies? How does that single mage feed people? Milk?

;)

I wouldn't want yucky old man milk. Would you?

[Tifone]

That brings up another question: why do nature levels bring supplies? How does that single mage feed people?

I suppose because he's gifted with the power of making plants grow fast... which he obviously uses... to make some herbs grow, that the troops smoke and don't feel the hunger :D

[thejeff]

What kind of herbs do they smoke and don't feel the hunger?

An entire army with the munchies is a terrifying thing.

[Gregstrom]

It explains Hinnom though.

[llamabeast]

Milk?! Ewww!

[Dectilon]

Since Nature magic manipulates animals as well he could perhaps use it to lure animals to him. Or make plants grow as you said.

Only the insane go for that... other alternative.

"I am the Milkman. My milk is delicious. It contains all they need. All they deserve."

[lch]

Herbalist, excellent cook/brewer/whatever, take your pick. You don't actually need him to make food magically appear, all he needs is to be exceptionally good at finding it in the province or preserving or processing it. But I know that you're all just pulling my leg.

[JimMorrison]

Herbalist, excellent cook/brewer/whatever, take your pick. You don't actually need to have him make food magically appear, all he needs is to be exceptionally good at finding it in the province or processing it. But I know that you're all just pulling my leg.

Is that where the milk comes from?


I'm just going to throw out a number, an average Elk could yield say 100lbs of meat. 1/2 lb of meat with some berries and whatever you can scrounge from the dirt, should feed a man for a day. That's 200 supply if you could catch an Elk a day, with your mysterious powers over the wilds. Maybe N1 mages are good at pulling rabbits out of hats?

[thejeff]

If they could just keep supplies from spoiling and keep the rats and bugs out that would go a long way.

[lch]

That's why edited my post and added a "preserving" shortly thereafter... ;)

[vfb]

I think that if you're low on supplies in a province, you should be able to pillage the province to get more. Pillaging and robbing is not just for money!