Wild Red - MA game (in progress)

[Baalz]

Another game brought to you by the llamaserver

Era: MA
Mods: CBM
Settings: everything default with renaming on
Map: picked after we see how many people, ~15 provinces per player
Hosting: 24 hours per turn for the first 12, after that we'll bump up the hosting every time at least 3 people ask for it. Quick host on.

Notes: Its been kind of annoying how many people are dropping out lately, please don't join this game unless you're committed to playing for the next 6 months or at least until you personally line up a substitute player. 'course you might be eliminated a lot sooner than that...

Nations:

Oceana - Baalz
Abysia - Dragar
Atlantis - Incabulos
Caelum - statttis
Shinuyama - Lavaere
TC - DonCorazon
Machaka - Nihil
Phytium - Kim
Bandar - Deadnature
Ermor - paulus
Agartha - fungalreason
R'yleh - GC64
Jotunheim - PAR
Eriu - archaeolept
Arco - Toran
Pangea - Falkor
C'tis - Firewalker
Ulm - paparapapa
Man - Jazzepi

[Dragar]

Abysia

[Incabulos]

I will take Atlantis

[statttis]

Caelum for me please.

[Lavaere]

Lets try Shinuyama

[DonCorazon]

Tien Chi

[Nihil]

Machaka please.

[KIM]

Phytium for me :up:

[Deadnature]

Bandar Log please :)

[Baalz]

Map is open for discussion, but assuming we land 18-20 players I was looking at Asia Twist: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=649938

Anybody got a strong opinion?

[paulus]

I like playin sauromatia.

thanks

[Deadnature]

I'm strongly in favor of asia-twist...but of course any ol' map will do

[Festin]

I'd like to join as Ulm.

[fungalreason]

Agartha please. Also would re-naming of commanders be turned on? I think it's off by default

[Baalz]

Ah yes, I intend to put renaming on. Always forget that's off by default.

[DonCorazon]

Did i miss something - I dont think Sauromatia is MA

[Baalz]

Absolutely right DC, didn't engage my brain when I accepted that. Paulus - please pick a nation from MA.

[GC64]

I'll take R'lyeh.

[Radioheart]

Signing in as Man, please.

[Festin]

Oops. I'm really sorry, but I won't be able to play this time, due to sudden work overload. Please count me out.

[Ossa]

Is there still space for Vanheim?

[PAR]

could i join as jotunheim

cheers

[archaeolept]

I think my big game is ending... so that would allow me to join a new one :)

hmmm all my favourites are gone... tentatively MA Mict then... give me a chance to actually try out a strat on them.

[archaeolept]

I'm strongly in favor of asia-twist...but of course any ol' map will doAsia Twist is a beautiful map, but I think it needs a revision in order to more balance it out. Still, I wouldn't refuse it.

also, Baalz, no interest in banning the huge end-game globals? I'm a bit tired about how they dominate the game so...

[Baalz]

I'm strongly in favor of asia-twist...but of course any ol' map will doAsia Twist is a beautiful map, but I think it needs a revision in order to more balance it out. Still, I wouldn't refuse it.

also, Baalz, no interest in banning the huge end-game globals? I'm a bit tired about how they dominate the game so...

I'm open to it if there's a general consensus, but I don't generally feel like they dominate any more than other end game stuff like tartarians or clam hoarding...

Also open to other map suggestions, my primary motivation is to have roughly 15 provinces per player with an appropriate amount of water for 3 water nations - and me not having to personally tweak it at all. Asia twist is the default at this point until somebody nominates another.

[archaeolept]

tarts are more fluid - everyone can go for them to some degree, and wish away the chalice if needed. AN, or BoT, or AC all seriously hamper the normal dynamics of the game, IMO... i'm just tired of dealing with them :)

[Baalz]

I don't know, by that stick you start banning a lot of stuff. Forge of the ancients is no less game changing, it's just less in your face obvious. Gift of natures bounty will mean you've got to face three times as many enemies down the line, but it's not immediately killing off your guys so it flies under the radar. Utterdark changes the whole game as does wishing away artifacts or for armageddon.

I tend to feel that really annoying behavior should be met by lots of people kicking the crap out of you in game. :)

[Dragar]

I agree, let the market sort out the problems :)

[DonCorazon]

You clearly don't live in the U.S! :)

[archaeolept]

haha - or in the rest of the world either ;p

[Toran]

' won't last for six months :p, but would love to get my hands on Arcoscephale, por favor!

[Falkor]

I'd like to join as Pangaea.

[Baalz]

Running out of nations Paulus, if you don't speak up I'm going to remove you from the list.

[pyg]

I'f the game isn't full already, I'll take Ashdod. I'm probably in over my head here.

I like Asia Twist!

[archaeolept]

I'd vote to ban ashdod, though baalz is probably fine w/ it :)

(I know you're new to playing MP, so it wouldn't really be a big deal at all)

[pyg]

I'd vote to ban ashdod, though baalz is probably fine w/ it :)

(I know you're new to playing MP, so it wouldn't really be a big deal at all)

Is Ashdod overpowered in CBM as well? I thought the point of CBM was to level the field.

And yes, I am a noob who admits to being intimidated (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42142) by the idea of playing Baalz in MP.

[archaeolept]

yes. we need a united front against the Oceanic menace!

cbm hasn't done much to ashdod.

[DonCorazon]

If you are in as Ashdod it just means an immediate alliance will be organized against you and you will be attacked mercilessly. It will grind down all your neighbors and yourself. Whoever did not start next to Ashdod will go onto win the game. Now that I have called it, we can just end this and move on to the next game where hopefully Ashdod is banned :)

[paulus]

Sorry,Can play which Ashdod??

[DonCorazon]

paulus, I don't know what you mean by "which Ashdod?" there is only one. The nation has different names in different ages eg it is called Gath in LA.

My comment/joke above was in reference to the MA nation Ashdod, which is viewed by many as a powerhouse and is usually ganged up on.

You should pick an MA nation that hasn't been chosen if you still want to play. If you are confused, open up Dominions and create a new game in the Middle Age and see what nations are available - Sauromatia is not one of them.

[Baalz]

yes. we need a united front against the Oceanic menace!

cbm hasn't done much to ashdod.

Haha, maybe I should play Ashdod. In the drink with R'yleh and playing the weakest nation in the game and the alliances are already forming.

[Dragar]

abysia offers oceania all of its aquatic powers in the fight against rlyeh ;)

[Incabulos]

yes. we need a united front against the Oceanic menace!

cbm hasn't done much to ashdod.

Haha, maybe I should play Ashdod. In the drink with R'yleh and playing the weakest nation in the game and the alliances are already forming.

I've got a knife in your back Mate.

[Baalz]

Alright, we've got 17 nations picked. Lets leave Ashdod out, which leaves:

Ermor, Ulm, Marignon, C'tis, Eriu

I'll leave the game recruiting for another 24 hours or so, or until those are filled. Asia Twist seems popular, the though the floor is open for other nominations until I start the game.

[archaeolept]

asia twist has 19 pre-set starting locations. It might be best to have the full complement if we go w/ that map.

also, there are two versions. I think the one w/ ports is preferable.

and standard research for such a large game? In my current asia twist game, it certainly seems like research is too quick. OTOH, i'm down for mictlan, so I have no complaints whichever way.

edit: if there are only 18, and we use asiatwist, i'd suggest killing the borneo start as it is central to the island complex; and I feel that the island starts are _slightly_ inferior.

[Dragar]

I vote for no change - already spent a bunch of time on a strat that won't work with diffiuclt!

[Baalz]

Normal research, I'll cut it off at 19 which is one more player if paulus wants one of the remaining nations.

[GC64]

yes. we need a united front against the Oceanic menace!

cbm hasn't done much to ashdod.

Haha, maybe I should play Ashdod. In the drink with R'yleh and playing the weakest nation in the game and the alliances are already forming.

When considerations of experience are brought to the fore, I hope my Atlantean compatriot as well as any damp surface-dwellers will realize the great relative threat you pose compared to me.

[Firewalker]

I'll join in as C'tis if there is still time!

[Baalz]

Alright, one slot left. Ermor, Ulm, Marignon, Eriu. First come first served, if you want one speak up Paulus...

[archaeolept]

yes. we need a united front against the Oceanic menace!

cbm hasn't done much to ashdod.

Haha, maybe I should play Ashdod. In the drink with R'yleh and playing the weakest nation in the game and the alliances are already forming.
ah, sorry Baalz, it was a joke :)

I'm sure you can do fine w/ oceania, but it is certainly no-one's power nation.

[paulus]

Ermor, Sorryy :smirk:

[Baalz]

Alright, full house. I'll give everyone a day or two to design a pretender then I'll kick off the game.

[Baalz]

Alright, game's up. You've still got a couple days to make a pretender, but feel free to upload anytime you're ready.

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=wildred

[Falkor]

I can't submit my pretender because the spot (Pangaea) is already taken.
I suppose someone sent wrong file.

Baalz, could you please delete that file?

[archaeolept]

you should still be able to submit... just send your pretender to pretenders@llamaserver.net, w/ wildred in the subject. Unless the procedure has been changed - is llama sending you some error email?

[Falkor]

You can change the file using the same email address only. The original file was not sent by me.
Game admin can delete the file, though.

[Baalz]

Alright, Pangea is deleted leaving the following needing pretenders:
Atlantis - Incabulos
Man - Radioheart
Vanheim - Ossa
Pangea - Falkor

[Falkor]

Thanks. :)
Pretender submited successfully.

[archaeolept]

we're just missing Van (ossa) and Man (Radioheart). Strangly, even though it rhymes, Pan has submitted.

[Dragar]

we've been waiting days for the last couple, any chance of an upload soon guys?

[archaeolept]

yah i don't know the man player, but ossa has played a few before... dunno what's up.

If he doesn't show I'd request a change to van from mict, as it looks like I actually have to continue playing in my other mictlan game ;) and there are more interesting pretender strategies for me w/ vanheim. (in this case, Baalz, just delete the mict pretender and post here and I should be able to upload a van pretender toute de suite)

but maybe we should also open up recruitment - see if there are a couple people who are willing to quickly join up so we can get this guy on the road.

[Baalz]

Alright, I'll give 24 hours from this point for the missing guys to upload or say something then assume they're MIA.

[archaeolept]

oh, i'm fine w/ mictlan btw; van is just more fun, but it would be a power strat... ;p

[Jazzepi]

Baalz, who is missing? I could probably take over for them.

Jazzepi

[Incabulos]

Vanheim and Man unless archae swaps, then it would be Mictlan and Man

[archaeolept]

also
Ermor, Ulm, Marignon, C'tis, Eriu, would be available, I believe

[Baalz]

Alright, Jazzepi is in leaving one open spot. Available nations:

Ermor, Ulm, Marignon, C'tis, Eriu, Mictlan and Man

I deleted the Mict pretender for you Archaeolept.

[Baalz]

Alright if nobody joins by tomorrow evening I'll kick it off with what we've got (assuming Jazz can get a pretender in by then)

[archaeolept]

van is just too powerful for this map, so, as much as I love them and would like to push a strat, i'll leave them for laters.

I'll either resub my mict or i'll fool around w/ someone else before tues. eve, though jazzepi has priority on any of those left.

[paparapapa]

I've never tried MA Ulm post patch boost so if it's still available I'll take them :)

[paparapapa]

Got my pretender for ulm in, hopefully I didn't step on anyone's toes~

[archaeolept]

sounds fine - two people didn't show in a timely manner; you and jazzepi are stepping up to the plate.

I need to play something different, so I'll try Van's little brother, Eriu

no sailing, minimal earth, no blood... ouch :)

[Jazzepi]

I'll take MA Man.

Uploading pretender soon.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

I've got my pretender figured out, but now gmail is pooping itself :(

I've got to get some sleep, and I can try to upload again after that.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

hmm, I guess I'll stick w/ that pretender then :p

Baalz got it rolling... just waiting on everyone else's turns :)

fight well!

[Deadnature]

uhh, so we aren't using CBM 1.44 but 1.41

Is this correct?

[Toran]

Yep, correct, 1.41 (as the llamaserver page says - http://www.llamaserver.net/admin.cgi?game=wildred , and 1.44. isn't an "official" CBM version).

[archaeolept]

but unless there's a difference between the two versions for the pretender you designed, there won't be any issues. don't worry about it :)

also, 1.44? that's not a real version - some people are dumb enough to create their own variants but then to use the official numbering system instead of calling it "bob'sCBM1.44" or whatever

[llamabeast]

I've asked chris to change the name of his mod to chrisCBM to minimise future confusion.

You almost give the impression that you don't like him archae (don't respond to that).

[archaeolept]

heh, I didn't know it was he who made the mod... I merely surmised that if it were not him, it would be someone of like ilk :)

[Baalz]

Ah yeah, sorry the llamaserver started the game automatically when the game filled up, so looks like Van it is! :) Good luck all.

[archaeolept]

no - I took Eriu, but I was just fixing up a revised pretender when the game started... it's all good :)

A van bless power strat is just too cruel on this map ;)

[PAR]

sorry for slowing things up my coumputer went pop should get it back sunday if you need to swich me to AI no worrys

sorry again

PAR

[archaeolept]

no, better to delay for a day than have someone go AI. or delay for a day, then even if you miss one turn, it's just a single stale.

[archaeolept]

ah well, you look to have been staled that turn - Baalz, if you're around, pls consider delaying this turn for a day so that hopefully PAR can get his machine up and running.

[Baalz]

Postponed for 24 hours

[PAR]

i am back yay

[archaeolept]

didn't receive the turn and had to ask for a resend

[fungalreason]

I had the same problem last turn, Archaeolept. Then I received the original turn about 3 hours AFTER the re-send. I blame hotmail though :)

[DonCorazon]

i had same problem this turn. happens every now and then with llamaserver in my experience.

[DonCorazon]

what happens actually, is i eventually get the turn, like 10 hours after hosting but its timestamped on the email as if I received it when the turn actually hosted. wierd - has happened in several games now sporadically.

[Baalz]

Man, I realize that I'm *****ing to the people who didn't bail, but after making a plea to please not join unless you could at least commit to lining up a substitute player we've now two guys who just walked off without a word.

I've set Ulm AI. I also have been effectively eliminated as Oceana (weak position and simultaneous attack by R'yleh & Atlantis), so I'm going to step in and sub for Bandar. Unless they come back with a really amazing excuse, I'm also blacklisting those two players from any game I'm in in the future.

Ulm - paparapapa
Bandar - Deadnature

[archaeolept]

i've played w/ deadnature in the past - he's a fairly new player, but was pretty dependable at getting his turns in even until the bitter end. I would expect that something wayward occurred. Nevertheless, the nation needs a player, so that's great that you're taking over.

[Jazzepi]

Man, I realize that I'm *****ing to the people who didn't bail, but after making a plea to please not join unless you could at least commit to lining up a substitute player we've now two guys who just walked off without a word.

I've set Ulm AI. I also have been effectively eliminated as Oceana (weak position and simultaneous attack by R'yleh & Atlantis), so I'm going to step in and sub for Bandar. Unless they come back with a really amazing excuse, I'm also blacklisting those two players from any game I'm in in the future.

Ulm - paparapapa
Bandar - Deadnature

Baalz, I think you should send me all your money and gems just to make prove that you're not going to send them to Bandar :D:D:D:D

Jazzepi

[Incabulos]

keke..

[Dragar]

I was wondering about the renewed activity from Bandar ;) glad I didn't take advantage to attack while he was staling :)

[KIM]

Bye, bye guys...too much for me :yield:

[Jazzepi]

Thanks for playing!

Jazzepi

[fungalreason]

Atlantis / Caelum? I don't mean to pressure anyone, but a week of downtime in between turns is a good way to kill interest in a game.

[Jazzepi]

Seriously.

All my ****ing games are on week long timers right now, after having 3 days of downtime :(

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

I was expecting the admins to bring the hosting times forward.

[Jazzepi]

I was expecting the admins to bring the hosting times forward.

I was too! I'm not blaming you beast ;)

Jazzepi

[Incabulos]

in the SNAFU I forgot which games I had submitted turns for already.

[archaeolept]

in the SNAFU I forgot which games I had submitted turns for already.a likely story!

ok, now we just need stattis to wake up... Baalz, is it possible to send him a reminder email?

personally, I enjoy having an occasional break... but it is time to get this show back on the road :judge:

[archaeolept]

turn 20, an hour and a half from host, still 4 who haven't submitted... I guess we should be thinking about going to 48hrs soon :)

[Jazzepi]

turn 20, an hour and a half from host, still 4 who haven't submitted... I guess we should be thinking about going to 48hrs soon :)

I suspect this is just some post-disruption malaise. This always happens after a disruption. People get thrown out of the swing of things. A good hard STALE will wake them up :O

Jazzepi

[Lavaere]

sorry about last turn, had though I'd already sent my turn. and reminder wasn't until after I was asleep

[Baalz]

turn 20, an hour and a half from host, still 4 who haven't submitted... I guess we should be thinking about going to 48hrs soon :)

One vote, 2 more and I'll bump it to 48

[DonCorazon]

TC would like to trade for Nature gems. We can supply Fire/some Air. Quantities limited - act now!

[Jazzepi]

Man is interested in buying gems. We're offering 15 GP apiece. Looking for death and astral mostly.

Jazzepi

[DonCorazon]

TC may need about a 4 hr extension. Will prob get turn in earlier than that but just in case since I'm travelling - thx.

[archaeolept]

due to me having sucky gem distribution, I'm offering 27 fire gems for 18 gems any mix of e/s/d/n. Also, if anyone needs air, will trade air 1 to 1 for w/e/s/d/n. pm me if interested.

[Baalz]

Well, I'm eliminated a second time! Well played Toran. Any volunteers to take up admin duties for this game now that I'm not really going to be paying too much attention to it?

[archaeolept]

I nominate Doncorazon, as he is usually around, and seems pretty dependable. Last time I admin'ed I ended up delaying one turn a half dozen times due to "issues" ;p

[DonCorazon]

"seems?" wtf Arch :)
Unfortunately I am admining a couple other games and trying to reduce my Dom 3 exposure so I have to pass.

I counter nominate Jazzepi - he "is" reliable.

[archaeolept]

see? couldn't even depend on you to admin this little game here :judge:

[Jazzepi]

"seems?" wtf Arch :)
Unfortunately I am admining a couple other games and trying to reduce my Dom 3 exposure so I have to pass.

I counter nominate Jazzepi - he "is" reliable.

I'm going to be chairing a convention around the middle of May, and I've got a full load of class this quarter as well as a few games of dom 3. Sorry, I can't admin reliably.

Jazzepi

[Lavaere]

what does admining entail anyway

[Baalz]

Archaeolept volunteered, so send any admin requests to him. Admining (on the llamaserver at least) mostly entails granting extensions when people ask for them to get their turns done, or updating the email addressees for a substitute player. You basically just need the password and to pay attention if anybody asks for anything.

[Jazzepi]

You also need to put players to AI once they start massive staling. We're sort of past the point where large swaths of people will drop out. Generally you'll need to find a second party to help you, which requires posting on the forums to ask someone.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

yeah, np, I think I can handle it - easier to grab someone from IRC to set people AI.

[Toran]

One vote, 2 more and I'll bump it to 48

BTW, I'm all up for 48 hours from now on!

[Firewalker]

One vote, 2 more and I'll bump it to 48

BTW, I'm all up for 48 hours from now on!

Aye, myself as well. I've been just making it the last few turns.

[archaeolept]

I've been enjoying the pace, but it is about time to move to a more relaxed schedule. How about I change to 49 hr hosting next turn? so one more turn at this "brutal" pace ;p

[Falkor]

I would enjoy slower pace too.

[Toran]

I've been enjoying the pace, but it is about time to move to a more relaxed schedule. How about I change to 49 hr hosting next turn? so one more turn at this "brutal" pace ;p

Oh, I'm (and have been) enjoying this pace as well, and I will most probably get my turn in way before 48 hrs, but sometimes you'll need just another day to plot destruction, ya know :p

[statttis]

Oh, I'm (and have been) enjoying this pace as well, and I will most probably get my turn in way before 48 hrs, but sometimes you'll need just another day to plot destruction, ya know :p

Why would you need more time to plot when your opponent is incapable of putting up a fight :p

[Lavaere]

49hrs sounds great. in case my e-mail screws up again and blocks everything for a day causeing me to stale everything. while I'm just thinking there ain't no turn yet

[archaeolept]

ok, hosting has now been changed to 49 hrs.

[fungalreason]

Agartha has an abundance of Fire and Air gems available for trade. I'm willing to exchange them for any other type.

[archaeolept]

oh, sorry, it took me a while to notice that we were just waiting on caelum... who was defeated this turn. silly little bug ;p

so forced hosting, and new turn.

[Jazzepi]

Wow. You just made us all stale. :D

I suggest you rollback the turn to 36, and that should be fine.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

rolling back... how the heck did that happen? I only submitted one request... oh well, should be ok :)

[statttis]

It's not a bug, just bad timing. When you get eliminated you get one last turn to send to watch the final battles and send messages. Apparenly I submitted my final turn at almost the exact time the host forced.

[archaeolept]

ah, you actually submitted the "fake turn" ... no one ever remembers to do that. umm, congratulations? ;p

anyways, hope you had a good game. see you in battle and all that :)

[Firewalker]

Can I get a 24 hr delay this turn? I'm in the process of moving from one place to the next and my computer will not be in the same one as I am this evening.

[archaeolept]

oh wait, i'm the game admin now aren't I?

hmm.. it says I have the incorrect password. I can pm llama, but it is too close to hosting for it to be stopped, I think.

edit: ok got it changed.

[Jazzepi]

Looking to trade for a rune smasher or two. We have level 6 construction, and access to many paths. Let us know what you need in return.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

I would need a mage capable of forging rune smashers. TIA. ;p

[archaeolept]

I might have to delay the turn for 12 hrs. mine is mostly done, but i've been projectile vomiting for the past day and a half :)

hopefully I can get the turn submitted, but i'm barely capable of watching tv

edit: ok, got it in

[Dragar]

Close to 50 Kings of the Deep have just landed in Abysia, as can be seen by the flattening of the Atlantian research chart. They won't be here long, but should anyone feel like dipping their toes into the water, now might be a good time.

[Nihil]

I have set myself to IA, I brought Machaka as far as I could :doh:

[Incabulos]

Ouch... Hmm I guess I should have forged some equipment for my kings...
Another lesson painfully learned.

[Dragar]

its ok, you still have 32 left. That's good for 2 more turns of experiment :)

[Jazzepi]

:mad::mad::mad:
MAN, I CAN'T WAIT TO GET MORE OF THESE USELESS HEROES!
:mad::mad::mad:

Why hasn't worthy heroes, or CBM, done something with these guys?

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

delaying for 12 hrs, as last week's food poisoning left me weak enough to pick up some bug... good times, good times. I'm pretty sure it's not the flying pig flu though :)

[Incabulos]

Dragar, what do you see in the battle replay with my queen of water and your fountain of blood?

I see my queen winning. But the results are different, so it's that battle replay bug. Just wondering if you got the correct replay so I know what happened to her.

[Dragar]

I have no idea, haven't had a chance to look at my turn yet - will still be another 10 hours or so I'm afraid. I'll let you know then

I have to say I'm very nervous! didn't think your queen would stand a chance there

[Incabulos]

Oh have no fear, the game results in me losing my queen (she is gone and I didn't win the province) the battle replay shows her winning.

[Dragar]

I saw the same battle as you, I have no idea what happened. I'm amazed how many times (in the battle we saw at least) your queen recovered from being down to single digit hit points! even once blinded

[archaeolept]

ahhh heck... I was so busy running around the apartment doing **** I forgot to send in the turn :(

[Jazzepi]

Oh god.

Why is earthquake so annoying.

WHY?!

Jazzepi

[fungalreason]

Just be happy the aftershock didn't work ;)

[archaeolept]

9hr extension due to extreme busy-ness

[archaeolept]

by 9 I of course meant a standard day's extension ;p

promise only to operate in terms of normal extionsions of one day's length in the future :)

[fungalreason]

Could we delay this next turn 24h? I'll probably get it in before that, just too tired to finish it up tonight.

[archaeolept]

delayed a day :)

[Jazzepi]

I'm under a huge work load here. I put in a quick 5 minute turn before the host, but it didn't get there in time. I'm sure is llamabeast checks the server e-mail, it'll show my time stamp.

I'd like to rehost with that turn in place.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

I staled on saturday, but I would be ok w/ a rehost if that were the general will. I believe you are in a war, and that always makes turns more difficult.

I generally check the thread fairly often, so even a late request for a turn extension would have some chance of being seen.

would this have to be a request to llama to sort it out?

[Jazzepi]

The e-mail records should show that I sent my turn in 2-3 minutes before the host. Or /at the very least/ I didn't get my "new" stale turn until after I had sent in last turn's orders.

Nobody has to do anything, really, Llamabeast just uses everyone's old turns, sticks in the one that I submitted earlier, and rehosts. It's quite painless.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

well, i haven't looked at what is most likely an uninteresting turn, so it's no skin off my back.

do i email llama about the issue, or can it be done through the admin panel?

[DonCorazon]

I don't like rehosting. Its not a matter of players not having to do anything but the problem is battles can turn out differently or good events that don't happen or become bad events in the re-host. I had both a battle that went well and a good event last turn. Who knows what happens in the re-host?

Sending in a turn 2-3 minute before is rolling the dice IMHO. If I staled in that case I wouldn't ask for a re-host. I'll defer to the group though.

[Jazzepi]

Basically, yeah.

I'm a convention chair, and our convention is being hosted next weekend. I JUST got done putting in the order for the convention book. Ugh.

Jazzepi

[DonCorazon]

Well, I won't object if nobody else has a problem. But i'd say if there are 2 or more players who will be hurt by the re-host, we should just power through it.

[fungalreason]

I don't mind.

[archaeolept]

I think we'll probably re-host then, unless someone else speaks up. All in all, given the situation, it's ok.

however, if no one tells me exactly what I am supposed to do, I won't bother :)

i'll wait to give others time to object.

[Jazzepi]

Just contact Llamabeast and tell him to rehost the last turn, using all the old save files, and to stick in the one I sent in late in. He'll know what to do.

Jazzepi

[Dragar]

i don't mind

[Falkor]

I don't like it. Shall we rehost every time someone staled? Everyone has a good reason for it.
Archaeolept is very flexible and gives extentions everytime someone needs it, after all.

[archaeolept]

3 ok w/ it, 2 more opposed. Generally, I agree there shouldn't be rehosts; but the situation is borderline, and I'm guessing the email timestamp is before hosting. Nevertheless, while it is a bad precedent, i'll email llama.

edit: also, i had a 750 gold event :(

:p

[llamabeast]

Yep, in fact you can do this yourself archae.

You need to:

1) Rollback
2) Get Jazzepi *only* to send his turn in (you can see if anyone else does, because people will be shown as "Waiting for 2h file" even though their 2h files are in fact ready to be used on hosting)
3) Force hosting

[archaeolept]

the problem with that is that it allows an altered turn to be sent, as opposed to the "rush turn" that was sent in and time-stamped. As a general matter of proper procedures I'd have a problem with that. Everyone else would have to be allowed to send in a possibly updated turn, and it would be a real mess IMO.

I'd be opposed to rehosting the turn like this; that sort of thing allows for exploits, and I've certainly met some players in the past who would try.

OTOH, I'd also rather not cause any work for Llama: he should be under no expectation of any effort above and beyond what is necessary for maintaining his wonderful server.

Jazzepi, we all operate under similar constraints, and the error in essence was yours.

[Jazzepi]

the problem with that is that it allows an altered turn to be sent, as opposed to the "rush turn" that was sent in and time-stamped. As a general matter of proper procedures I'd have a problem with that. Everyone else would have to be allowed to send in a possibly updated turn, and it would be a real mess IMO.

I'd be opposed to rehosting the turn like this; that sort of thing allows for exploits, and I've certainly met some players in the past who would try.

OTOH, I'd also rather not cause any work for Llama: he should be under no expectation of any effort above and beyond what is necessary for maintaining his wonderful server.

Jazzepi, we all operate under similar constraints, and the error in essence was yours.

Bleh. We did this exact thing before in another game I was in, when the player I was attacking had the exact same issue, and instead of steam rolling him we rehosted with the time stamped file he sent in that didn't get included in the game hosting, and I got whomped, but it was straightforward and much more fair to that person.

I really don't think this is a huge inconvenience for Llamabeast, and I have a generally impeccable record with both staying in games, and getting my turns in on time (if not the first person). I'm not asking for a chance to submit some phoney redone turn, I just want the one that I sent in with the appropriate time stamp on it (I literally just moved armies around, set units to research, and did a basic round of recruitment) to be used.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

I don't believe you are being steamrollered?? please correct me if I am wrong.

I missed hosting by 20 minutes on Saturday - it sounds like that caused me greater damage than this one for you, as I was unable to protect my thugs from being mind hunted, and my responding attack (and a crucial forging) did not occur...

extended hosting by 24 hrs due to the status of the turn having been in question.

[Firewalker]

Forgive me for being dumb, but how exactly does a game get hosted missing a turn that arrived before the due date? Unless there is some known issue with Llamaserver not checking for turns that have arrived before it hosts the game, I fail to see the argument involved.

And I agree with others that re-hosting shouldn't be done except when there is a server problem. It can make quite a difference in the outcome of the game for other players who did fine getting their turns in and/or asked for extensions when they needed it.

[DonCorazon]

Yeah, honestly, I don't think I have ever been in a game where there was a re-host b/c someone staled.

I staled once in Kingmaker - I sent the turn a few minutes before I got the turn back with the stale - clearly the server was processing the turn - its not like it declines a turn that gets there in time. I'd never even think of asking for a re-host, much less telling the admin to take care of it for me.

Plus you never know how long it might actually take an email to get somewhere. Which is why i think if you send in a turn within 10 minutes of the deadline, you're taking your chances.

Here I don't even see what the big deal is. Just ask for an extension next time.

[archaeolept]

yeah, the issue was that jazzepi sent it 3 minutes or something before host, but the power of the interwebs defeated it from arriving in time...

I think it's best just to continue. Hopefully little happened to jazzepi other than him missing out on doing stuff.

If this week is also busy, please just post in the thread and I'll be happy to delay hosting. 2 days/turn with this many wars is already pushing it for this stage of the game.

[archaeolept]

Eriu's expeditionary scouting force reports the existence of the much feared and fabled dead gods of tartarus in arcos' territory. Luckily, they do not seem to have a large army to accompany them nearby.

[Dragar]

I may need a delay later this week. I am going in for corrective eye surgery (lasik) on Thursday, and am not sure how long until I'm seeing well enough to play. My guess is two days.

I'll play every turn I have available Thursday morning my time (late wed night US), which means nothing will be due for at least a day, but may not be able to play turns then, and even if I can probably shouldn't be staring at a screen.

So, if we can either put a delay in then, or if the admin can keep an eye out and if I haven't got a turn in I'd really appreciate it. Obviously as soon as I'm ok I'll play turns and post.

If for whatever reason I'm not back longer than people are prepared to wait, I'll wear a stale or two - don't think I've vanished and waste time searching for an AI.

If I don't come back for ages please look up a good eye specialist for me because mine obviously hasn't done his job right!

Thanks,
Dragar

[archaeolept]

sure, that won't be a problem. i'll delay it a couple days, and that should give you the time you need.

edit: we could also consider going to 3 day turns reasonably soon if people are so inclined.

[archaeolept]

incabulus (atlantis) staled a second time ... supposedly he has not been heard from in any of his games. It might be wise to look for a sub - it's an attractive position, as rlyeh is AI and, I believe, atlantis is in no wars anymore.

[DonCorazon]

he was traveling in europe - had a PM from him about 10 days ago. hopefully the guy is ok but agree we should look for a sub or turn him AI.

[Dragar]

rlyeh is AI? atlantis is definitely a good position then. Atlantis and Abysia were warring for a while but we made peace a few turns ago

[archaeolept]

yah, I was surprised to see that R'lyeh was AI - and I'm horribly situated as a majority of my provinces border him...

ok, i'll make a sub thread for atlantis, and i'm delaying hosting for a couple days.

[archaeolept]

P3D has volunteered to sub Atlantis. All hail P3D.

I asked for the turn to be resent - P3D, if you don't get it try and request it from llamaserver yourself - option on the game page.

[P3D]

Got the turn the first time. Atlantis is in a worse state than I imagined.

[archaeolept]

oh lol sorry ;)

it must have been battered by the war.

hopefully you have the potential to prevail over the dreaded space squids?

[Jazzepi]

Can I get a 36 hour extension? I'm charing a convention, and I really don't have the time to do a turn this complicated.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

sure thing. 36 hrs added. hopefully that's enough for everyone :)

[archaeolept]

adding 12 hrs as no turn from Man or Atlantis. It could be that P3D has determined that Atlantis is un-savable; Jazzepi is most likely still dealing w/ his conference duties.

[P3D]

I could submit a few turns, but Atlantis does not have a single Nature mage by turn 53, and site searching done only by VoT.:(

[archaeolept]

well, it's up to you. I guess I was hoping that Atlantis was in an ok situation, and the prospect of taking out the seas might be enticing.

[Dragar]

he also lost about 20 Kings and a kitted elemental queen very quickly attacking abysia, possibly not an optimal landfall target for an aquatic race ;)

[P3D]

So there's where all the gems went.
Will set it to AI.

[Firewalker]

I'd just like to take a moment to thank Man for bringing back the gear and most especially the Precious ... it was difficult being apart from it all this time! <Golum, golum!>

[archaeolept]

thanks P3D for giving it a look over. I didn't know it was in such a sorry shape.

[Firewalker]

sure, that won't be a problem. i'll delay it a couple days, and that should give you the time you need.

edit: we could also consider going to 3 day turns reasonably soon if people are so inclined.

I have to say "uncle" and vote to go to 3 days turns.

[DonCorazon]

i was just thinking the same. 3 days would be nice.

[archaeolept]

ok, as we're all (i think) in complex wars, i'll move it over to 3 days - adding 24 hrs now, will change to 3 come next turn.

[archaeolept]

jazzepi has requested a 30 hr extension.

[Jazzepi]

Could you temporarily disable quick host for this turn only? That turn I submitted was an accidental garbage one (IE, I did nothing).

I e-mailed Llamabeast to ask him to remove the turn, but I think he's indisposed.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

ok QH off. I'll manually host the game at the correct time.

[Jazzepi]

No need. It'll host itself at the proper time.

All quickhost does is host if everyone has their turns in ahead of schedule.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

Okay, I got a proper turn in.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

QH back on

[archaeolept]

6 hr extension as requested by fungal

[archaeolept]

24 hr extension as per request by jazzepi; needs to pass out
:)

[archaeolept]

it's not clear that I'm going to be back in time to get my turn in, so putting hosting forward 12 hrs.

[archaeolept]

/me contemplates hangover

ok, 2nd 12 hr delay

[DonCorazon]

Can i get a 4 hour extension? thx

[archaeolept]

have extended for 12 hrs.

[archaeolept]

sorry, woke up really late, added a couple hours so i can drink a coffee and get in my turn :)

[archaeolept]

"traditional" 12 hr delay ;)

[archaeolept]

fungal has requested a few hours delay, but i'll just bump it up to a full day so everyone can chillax ;)

[archaeolept]

request by jazzepi for 24 hr extension.

[Jazzepi]

Posted looking for someone to take over my position. I simply don't have the time between school and my responsibilities elsewhere.

I'd like an indefinite extension until I find someone.

Jazzepi

[archaeolept]

that's too bad, as you are certainly one of the leading players in this.

but clearly you have been pressed for time.

also, it's not my most exciting game either :p

With an extended turn length would you be able to play while looking?

[DonCorazon]

Sorry, but I have lost most of my interest in this game. I can barely remember what I am doing turn to turn given the generally 96 hour intervals. If Man goes AI, I would propose declaring Eriu or someone else who thinks they have a shot (not TC) the winner or just abandoning this one. I will continue to play if everyone else is still interested - it might get fun again. But just looking at the game thread where the only posts are to extend hosting every turn my sense is this game is more work than fun.

[Firewalker]

Sorry, but I have lost most of my interest in this game. I can barely remember what I am doing turn to turn given the generally 96 hour intervals. If Man goes AI, I would propose declaring Eriu or someone else who thinks they have a shot (not TC) the winner or just abandoning this one. I will continue to play if everyone else is still interested - it might get fun again. But just looking at the game thread where the only posts are to extend hosting every turn my sense is this game is more work than fun.

Honestly, I am in the same boat.

[fungalreason]

Agreed. I'm still enjoying it, but there's not much point continuing with man as AI.

[Dragar]

i'm not fussed either way, willl go with the consensus

[Toran]

I'm not relevant anymore, I'm just spreading out scouts to get glimps of what's happening every turn :)

[Dragar]

Can we pleas hold the turn until we've decided? i don't want to spend the time on the turn pointlessly

[archaeolept]

yes i've added another 48 hrs.

Certainly i'm not the winner; it's a pity about this game, as rarely are there so many players who would be in contention. Of course, my game involves sieging forts of a 1000 maenads, so I can't claim to be especially excited by it :p

Really, the game shouldn't end, but I have no great fire to keep it going either. Jazzepi hasn't found a sub - mind you, Man was probably going to go down soon enough :)

so I can keep playing; otoh, I could console myself if it were to end prematurely ;p

[archaeolept]

umm... it's on hiatus at least. it seems a pity, given there are a good bunch of viable nations. Arcos is almost dead; pan is besieged but not exactly going anywhere soon; Man probably would have been in trouble, but w/ a sub it should be fine. Firewalker, dragar, and fungal would like to continue I think - anyone else?

personally, besieging 1000 maenads is pretty boring - i'm happy to ditch it, but also fine w/ continuing; as long as it's not me that has to find the Man sub ;p

[Toran]

Hm, get a decision made, guys :)

I mean, why do you start playing a game if you don't want to fight it out 'til the end? Sure, I'm just a spectator, but it's my vote ;)

[Firewalker]

So .... anyway ....

I guess I'll be setting myself to AI in this game just in case it does actually host again. I personally would have had more fun if I hadn't screwed up my original plans for C'Tis. But as things are, it's really just a matter of attacking and/or being attacked and getting stomped, so I'll let the AI handle it.

[archaeolept]

there seems to be no indications of any "renewal of interest after a short break", so it looks like the game is dead. unless someone objects in the next day or so i'll officially end it.

I enjoyed the greater part of it; but I am hardly a fan of the late game anyways :)

[Dragar]

yeah likewise. No point continuing with an obvious lack of interest, let's call it quits

[archaeolept]

winning is _quite_ over-rated in any event.

good game guys.

[DonCorazon]

i wish i could have been more enthusiastic but this game was like playing SP for me since i was at war with AIs the whole game. had maybe one fun battle with Machaka before he went AI. then it was AI wars with R'lyeh and Atlantis. had Man not abandoned the game the turn after I attacked him, it might have sparked my interest, but seeing as he apparently never found a sub, the thought of fighting yet another AI was enough to kill it for me.

anyway, thanks everyone who stuck around and thanks archaeo for picking up admin duties.

[fungalreason]

Yeah it's sad to see so many people giving up after their first defeat lately. I think I'm going to try to play only on small maps from now on, so there's less chance of people burning out.

I had fun as Agartha in this game at least. I was constantly war with at least one nation from turn ~12 on. Strangely I couldn't get ANY earth income either; I think I only had my capital for earth gems until turn 30 or so. The only thing that saved me was finding a 40% blood site early on in the game :)

[Toran]

Well, it was fun as long as it lasted - I thought I was lost just by round 5, having bad luck + mistakes vs. indies. But then I got lucky about my neighbour whom Baalz subbed for (luckily, it was in sufficiently bad shape for me to get him).

Well, and when I was about to attack our oh-so-Earth-poor Agartha, 75% of my army (>60 commanders plus a load of other stuff including Tartarians) got sneak-attacked by Eriu. He cut off my retreat and taught me *never* to leave a force that large unscripted, even though there is no danger 'apparent'... :p

Bah. Yeah, learning game. Still prefer games that get played til the end, although it was over for me at least ;)