enemy range report

[chuckfourth]

Hi
Something that Id like to see removed is the range report that you see in the bottom information bar when the enemy fires at you.
Yes thats right Im a realism nut and it isnt realistic, ie for example your infantry is traveling along a jungle road its straight, long and narrow. MG opens up now in real life this would be a big problem as you dont know where (ie how far away) it is, but in-game the info bar tells you. So, no worries you can drop artillery straight on top of it even though in-game it is invisible.
Also
It gives the live player an advantage against the AI.
Best regards Chuck.

[EJ]

Chuck,
Instead of eliminating it how about making it a pref the player can turn on or off??

[chuckfourth]

Hi EJ
Thats a possibility I didnt think off.
Best Regards Chuck.

[Mobhack]

Chuck,
Instead of eliminating it how about making it a pref the player can turn on or off??

The game does not have any concept of any address to messages. All messages go to all players - i.e. broadcast.

Switching off messages would screw up PBEM message replay no end.

To change the original code to use a different message to each player would need a total rewrite of the packet code, revisiting nearly every message string generation point to make a P1 and a P2 string, and/or a "broadcast" one to both players. The PBEM replay file would then fill up with double the strings P1 and P2 versions). The replay code would also need rewriting for P1, P2 and broadcast messages. Then there is the fact that the muzzle flash is shown on-map too.

All in all, too much work to do unless it was designed into he code from the git-go.

What you have with PBEM replay was a kludge that at least made PBEM possible. All fire messages were saved in a replay buffer with a note of the firer and target locations and the animation(s) to play.

Remember SP1 where you received your turn with a mass of destroyed units, but since there was no replay you had absolutely no idea how it all happened?. Probably not many folk played SP1 PBEM for that reason (and the several 100K save files were expensive to attach to email in those days!).

IIRC the initial SP2 had the same system, and it was only the later patch that introduced PBEM replay and needed you to upgrade the RAM on your 386 to a whole 4(? :)) MB to do so. Lots for 1998 anyhow. One of the original drivers for sp2ww2 was the desire of Don to be able to play WW2 games with PBEM replay.

Cheers
Andy

[JohnHale]

Aah - sp2ww2!

How many of us go back that far? (You two excepted!)

[Marek_Tucan]

SPWW2? Tried version 3 or somethinbg such - recall that downloading it via dial-up was a pain. Then went for a while with SPWAW, I re-discovered SPWW2 some time around ver. 6 (or 5?) - wait, not that, re-discovered it thanks to first version of MBT.

[Lt. Ketch]

I started on SP1, but then lost track of the series until now.

In regards to the messages, you can always incorperate the broken VCR method
1. Identify the space that the range shows up on the screen when an enemy fires at you.

2. Cut a piece of electrical tape (or paper) that is the same size of the space.

3. Apply the tape (or paper) to the screen.

4. Remove when it's your turn.

I would recommend the paper unless you want to replace your monitor every few days. You can also use white-out. :D

Hey, it worked for the blinking numbers on VCRs, I'm sure it will work here. Good luck!:up:

[DRG]

Chuck,
Instead of eliminating it how about making it a pref the player can turn on or off??



I've got an even better idea. Chuck, and any other realism "nut" playing the game can simply not read the messages that appear.

Simple and effective. I never look at those messages so it shouldn't be hard for Chuck. Turn the message delay to zero and it's a snap

It's a game ( and am SO frigging tired of saying this ) these messages are there to keep a player informed and he/she has the simple option to read them or not. The number of players who think this is an impediment to realism already have a list of dozens of things about SP they think is an impediment to realism and the only thing that could possibly ever shut them up is a complete re-write of the game that would leave the vast majority of people who actually do enjoy the game in it's current form unhappy.

Don

[DRG]

I started on SP1, but then lost track of the series until now.

In regards to the messages, you can always incorperate the broken VCR method
1. Identify the space that the range shows up on the screen when an enemy fires at you.

2. Cut a piece of electrical tape (or paper) that is the same size of the space.

3. Apply the tape (or paper) to the screen.

4. Remove when it's your turn.

I would recommend the paper unless you want to replace your monitor every few days. You can also use white-out. :D

Hey, it worked for the blinking numbers on VCRs, I'm sure it will work here. Good luck!:up:


5. A post-it note

6. Self control. Nobodys forced to read the messages

Don

[Lt. Ketch]

I started on SP1, but then lost track of the series until now.

In regards to the messages, you can always incorperate the broken VCR method
1. Identify the space that the range shows up on the screen when an enemy fires at you.

2. Cut a piece of electrical tape (or paper) that is the same size of the space.

3. Apply the tape (or paper) to the screen.

4. Remove when it's your turn.

I would recommend the paper unless you want to replace your monitor every few days. You can also use white-out. :D

Hey, it worked for the blinking numbers on VCRs, I'm sure it will work here. Good luck!:up:


5. A post-it note

6. Self control. Nobodys forced to read the messages

Don

True. That WOULD work a lot better. :doh: I guess I better start cleaning the tape off my screen.

[Mobryan]

Yub, Yub, Lt. Ketch :D :D :D



Matt

[Marek_Tucan]

7. Pet rat. If out of the cage, my ratties occupy my attention enough so that I cannot pay attention to fire reports during my turn, let alone replay :)

[Imp]

Have to say generaly its much more fun to watch on screen action than the report. Do keep an eye on it for penetration effects if I think tanks range is borderline for a kill or to try & determine what just shot at me. Yes sort of cheating but as I am watching my troops in action miss it most of the time anyway. Seeing my squad turn tail & run while his icon shrinks to a few men is all the info you need for impending doom & gloom.

[chuckfourth]

Hi Don
You warned a player in another thread to watch out for sharks, good advice. The difference between the shark and the 'average' player is that the shark is aware of and using every little gamey(unrealistic) aspect the game has. Removing this one is pulling one of the sharks teeth.

Andy mentions that it is difficult to switch messages on and off as a player preference, that may be so. But, and correct me im wrong, wouldnt it be a very simple matter to -remove- the range info from the message but leave the message otherwise intact? ie substitute a blank or similar?

And yes I can turn it off but if my PBEM opponent doesnt then thats giving him an advantage, not to mention I miss the other information in the message. I dont mind losing but I dont want to make it that easy to beat me.

Best Regards Chuck.

[Mobhack]

Hi Don
You warned a player in another thread to watch out for sharks, good advice. The difference between the shark and the 'average' player is that the shark is aware of and using every little gamey(unrealistic) aspect the game has. Removing this one is pulling one of the sharks teeth.

Andy mentions that it is difficult to switch messages on and off as a player preference, that may be so. But, and correct me im wrong, wouldnt it be a very simple matter to -remove- the range info from the message but leave the message otherwise intact? ie substitute a blank or similar?

And yes I can turn it off but if my PBEM opponent doesnt then thats giving him an advantage, not to mention I miss the other information in the message. I dont mind losing but I dont want to make it that easy to beat me.

Best Regards Chuck.

Chuck, it is the way this game works and is fundamental to its core design. giving partial info or even erroneous info would need a completely new game design from the ground up. So it will not be changing in any way.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

Chuck, when I start to see people actually agreeing with you ( and not just one or two of your PBEM buddies ) I might start paying more attention but for now you are the one and only person I have ever encounted who thought reporting the range from the firing unit was some kind of insideous cheat that need to be ripped out of the game.

The bottom line here is I don't have a problem with it and Andy doesn't have a problem with it and the vast majority of players don't have a problem with it or we would have heard about now. That bit of code that reports range isn't just at one place in the code that could be easily commented out. It's spread all over the place and is duplicated depending on whether the player likes his range reported in hexes , metres or yards and we simply have no interest in tearing apart code to change something we don't have a problem with.

End of discussion

Don

[PanzerBob]

I must say I had to go and look at what Chuck was talking about as I spend my time mostly watching the battle space. On occassion I'll see roughly where any hidden fire is coming from. Don't see a need for change there. IMHO

Player since SP1 when my eyes were younger and I could see better.

Bob out:D