Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!

[Gregstrom]

Hey there!

As another in my (very) occasional line of slowpace cames, I present Pyrothere.

Turns will be 96 hours (although I hope players will be rather faster than that for the first 10 turns).

Map: Spring Rains (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42427), with custom start points.

Other settings: Vanilla, renaming on.

Hosting: Llamaserver.

Mods: None.

Players:
Gregstrom - Mictlan
Greenaris - Ulm
Agema - Utgard
AlpineJoe - Marignon
Unoptimized - Ermor
Fate - Jomon
P3D - Gath
Caerun - Atlantis
cupido2 - R'lyeh
Gokufan1988 - Pythium
Anticipatient - Agartha
AreaOfEffect - Bogarus
Aethyr - Midgard
hEad - Pangaea
Illuminated One - T'ien Ch'i
Licker - Caelum
LdiCesare - Man

[Alpine Joe]

I'll take Marignon

[Unoptimized]

Oh! Sounds like fun. Any room for an LA Ermor?

[Gregstrom]

I don't have a problem with Ermor appearing, so... cool.

[Fate]

I would like to join as Jomon.

[P3D]

I'd try Gath.

[Gregstrom]

Cool - you're both in.

[Gregstrom]

In an act of shameless advertising: Bump!!

Also: If we don't get many more players, we'll need a smaller map.

[Caerun]

Atlantis for me, please.

[Gregstrom]

Duly noted, and added to the top post.

[cupido2]

May I join as R'lyeh? Never played them, not even in SP...

[Gregstrom]

Well, we already have Ermor so why not?

One caveat: If we don't get enough players for Asia Twist, the map we end up with may not be suitable for a LA game with R'lyeh as the only water nation. If so, I might have to ask you to change your selection.

[cupido2]

Yeah, that's alright.

[Gregstrom]

Okay. I'm still happy to have new players, but the pace of recruitment is slowing. I'll give it 48 hours, then if nothing has changed I'll close recruitment.

We'll need a smaller map than Asia Twist, and if nothing better suggests itself perhaps a slightly modified Urraparrand from this thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41374) would work.

Mods: I'm fine with vanilla, but we could perhaps use the gods and heroes from CBM 1.41. I'll leave that one to public debate.

[cupido2]

I'm fine with vanilla too and don't care what map. If I think about it, I'm fine with everything and don't have an opinion about anything.

[Gokufan1988]

Can I get in as Man?

[Gokufan1988]

Can I get in as Man?

Actually I changed my mind, I'd rather be Pythium instead. Sorry!

[anticipatient]

I'll take Agartha, please =]

Oh and Gods and Heros is fine by me. The whole CBM is okay with me, even, but just Gods and Heros is okay too = ]

[P3D]

I'll take Agartha, please =]

Oh and Gods and Heros is fine by me. The whole CBM is okay with me, even, but just Gods and Heros is okay too = ]

Urraparand should be fine for 8 land and one sea players.

[Gregstrom]

Shame we're now on 10 land and 1 sea player :)

Urraparrand would give LA R'lyeh about twice the provinces of any land nation, although that would have depended somewhat on Atlantis.

[cupido2]

Oh, that's fine for me. :) I could content myself with Man instead of R'lyeh though.

[Gregstrom]

Okay, after a scan of the maps already on llamaserver, Shahrivar and Cradle of Dominions both look good.

Cradle is slightly better for R'lyeh, but Shahrivar would be acceptable (I think - cupido2, have a look and see what you think) and is the prettier of the two.

@anticipatient: I would have suggested all of CBM 1.41, but Dedas has voiced what appear to be good and valid concerns over the changes to pikes made in this version.

[ano]

C'tis please.
As there're 12 of us now, maybe use Cradle with fixed starts that is at llamaserver? It has 12 starts: 11 land and 1 sea.
Also, I'd suggest increasing magic site rate at least to at least 40-45%.

Won't play with CBM, sorry. I'm learning it step by step but it is a quite new game for me I don't feel quite ready to play.

[Gregstrom]

12 players and one of the two fixed start Cradle maps sounds good to me, assuming that one of the two options on llamaserver has a coastal start point set. If anyone else joins up inside the next 24 hours we'll have to look for a different map.

I'm going to keep the basic game settings as per the top post, though.

[Gregstrom]

Bother this time limit on edits.

I was going to say: While site frequency won't be changing from default, I could add in Endoperez' site mod v0.80 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41189) to give more interesting sites.

[ano]

I think, if you don't want to change the site rate, let everything be default as it is because modded sites are harder to guess.

[Gregstrom]

You say that like it's a bad thing... :)

[ano]

Of course, it is bad at some degree. If I, for example, see unexpected chaos scale in the province, I may be sure that there's a nature or (more probably) fire site in the province. Also, I know that it is generally not worth site searching with more than level 3 in some schools because chance of finding anything valuably is pretty low. With new modded sites it becomes unpredictable which I generally don't like. I have nothing against this mod as well as any other (CBM, for example) but to play with it effectively it needs to be learned and I don't want it at the moment:)
I prefer playing with site rate of about 50% in any era but if you don't want it, so be it.

[Fate]

Extreme randomness has always seemed very much in the spirit of Dominions to me.

Other than that everything sounds good.

[AreaOfEffect]

Is there room for Bogarus?

[Gregstrom]

Sure is.

Any ideas on the maps front?

[ano]

Anything balanced with predefined locations.

[Aethyr]

Midgard please

[Agema]

The water is far less unbalanced than you might think. At face value, Rlyeh is technically the only sea nation in LA at all. However...

Although LA Atlantis (which I'm playing elsewhere in MP) starts on land it is every bit as good underwater as EA and MA Atlantis. (And although slightly limited without missile troops or cavalry, very handy on land too.) Not only that, but it needs to get underwater to access half its magical firepower.

Secondly, LA Mictlan is present, which has a dose of Atlantean influence. Although Mictlan can't build castles or build national units underwater, it can recruit underwater PD. Furthermore it has the nature mages to search for magic site kelp fortresses, and can supply adequate amphibious mages and sacred troops from its capital. It's weaker underwater than Rlyeh or Atlantis, but not so badly it would be a walkover.

Finally, Ermor is also present. Although strictly not a water power in any way, all its units are undead therefore (poor) amphibious, and it can grab water provinces right from the start if it wishes.

Consequently I'd argue we've effectively got 2 water nations, one halfway water nation, and one ready-access if slightly incompetent water nation.

[hEad]

I'll take Pangaea!

[ano]

Hm. If we got some more people we might use Alexander map with predefined starting locations or maybe even AsiaTwist. However, it seemed to me that AsiaTwist contains too much water for Late Era when I looked at it.

[Gokufan1988]

Hm. If we got some more people we might use Alexander map with predefined starting locations or maybe even AsiaTwist. However, it seemed to me that AsiaTwist contains too much water for Late Era when I looked at it.

Asia Twist has 37 water provinces, which does seem like a bit much when only one nation starts out in the water. Atlantis, Mictlan and Ermor notwithstanding. Not to mention a lot of them border a huge number of land provinces.

[Unoptimized]

Hooray! More people! I'm actually really glad this is taking a while. I'm trying my best to plan a LA Ermor strat which is not the patented "dude flood" approach. If this goes well, I may even make a guide!

[cupido2]

As I said, I'll switch to Man. No problem. Otherwise I take what I get with R'lyeh, even if it's only a pool of muddy water in the capitol of Ermor. I don't care about winning.

[ano]

If map with much water is chosen and you switch to Man that means that someone among land nations with access to water (Mictlan, Atlantis, Ermor) will grab nearly all water and have a huge advantage.
So map with a lot of water is not very good at all. Alexander is better than Asia Twist, however, in the aspect that its water is very distributed.

[Illuminated One]

I'd like to be in as Tien Chi please.

[LDiCesare]

If there's still room, I'm in. Of the remaining nations, I think T'ien Ch'i would be my choice.

[licker]

Yeah, why not make it a family game ;)

I'll play as Caelum if you need/want more.

[Gregstrom]

LDiCesare, I'm afraid you've missed out on TC by 32 minutes. Do you have another choice? Illuminated One, Licker; welcome!

[licker]

17 players...

How many more for full LA representation?

[Gregstrom]

Four: Man, Patala, Abysia and Arcoscephale.

Map-wise, it's likely to be Orania, Alexander or Asia Twist due to the size of the game. Alternatively, I could make up a random map.

[Ludivico van]

hmmm . . . I haven't had much online experience, but I don't agree with having newb servers. I would rather show flattery of the highest form: imitation. Learn from failure, because nothing meaningful comes from victory. Is this okay with everybody?

If that answer is yes, then I would probably choose patala. Haven't played as them yet . . . will probably do some AI games.

It'll be a learning experience . . .

[LDiCesare]

Aargh, too bad. Man instead then.
I had been checking the remaining nations before I hit the Submit button, and then checking what to do with LA TC as I only know EA TC well.
Well archers and crossbows then.

[ano]

19 players... That is a lot indeed.
For Alexander it is, probably, already a bit much. Also, I'd like to point out that with this many players predefined locations are nearly a "must-be" because chance of overcrowding and even capitals in neighboring provinces becomes very high.
So, I'd say we need a big balanced map. I heard about World of Geometry and similar maps. Maybe try something like that?

[Ludivico van]

I get the feeling that late age is a lot about cannon fodder and a definite inflation of the value of a life (think of life as a dollar. I realize the wording is easily misread). Is that in the ball park . . .?

[Gregstrom]

Well, it's less about summons than other ages because of the relative lack of gems. Troop lives are still relatively expendable though.

WoG, by the way, is a 12 player map and thus no use to us.

Faerun 466 is big enough to not have worries over start placements, but probably has a bit too much water.

[Gokufan1988]

I get the feeling that late age is a lot about cannon fodder and a definite inflation of the value of a life (think of life as a dollar. I realize the wording is easily misread). Is that in the ball park . . .?

Mages are weaker and magic gems are less plentiful. The average soldier has better gear and a higher resource cost. That's the general rule.

I just took a look at Patala and other than the decrease in magic gems this doesn't really seem to hold true for them. Their cap only Nagarishi looks like he could hold his own with any EA mage (although the lack of a boot slot on an earth mage must be annoying) and their non-capital troops look almost exactly the same as EA and MA.

I think Patala is generally considered to be one of the weaker nations, so keep that in mind.

[Ludivico van]

also, its [faerun] confusing as hell (thats allowed isn't it?) to differentiate between the land and the sea. I personally would choose a less aesthetically pleasing map thats easy to read than one thats detailed but confusing. I would say use something made for dominions. there was a 1000 or so province map, but that may be a tad extreme.

From looking at them, theres going to be a lot of monkeys runnin around everywhere. I think I'm looking at using numbers to drown the enemy in a swarming mass of feces and furry little bodies.

And serpant creatures . . .?

[licker]

Late age is about BLOOD!!!!

Well sorta, but perhaps you catch my drift ;)

Also remember the undead usually are not put off by feces, though they may harbor some resentment of the furry bodies flinging it.

[ano]

On the second thought I decided not to take part, sorry, guys. C'tis is free. Have fun:)

[Ludivico van]

as far as I see, which isn't far, i'll have my monkeys eat sharp objects so that their feces will have some mortal qualities to it. hopefully they should adapt enough to deal with the digestive needs of this. or have them ingest massive amounts of mortar and stone and have them . . . lets just say we'd have a lot of bricks.

also, oeridia was the map I was thinking of. it has 1055 land, 170 water. I think thats a bit too much. but i do like the idea of caves. haven't tried those out yet.

[Ludivico van]

i think i'll take C'Tis. I've at least a cursory knowledge of them, if thats alright.

too bad. monkeys s***tin bricks was ingenius.

[Gregstrom]

That would be oversized. There's a map posted here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42427) that looks about right. Any comments?

[licker]

I'm not super picky about the map, but the 15 provinces per player thing is tight.

If you're taking a poll on it, I'd prefer slightly more breathing room, like 20.

[Ludivico van]

i think it looks good, especially for a slow pace game, considering that it has enough open land for huge battlefields but enough other terrain to use as an asset. I'm feeling pretty good about this map.

I'm willing to look at alternatives, though. should we get a list of possible maps and take a poll?

[Gokufan1988]

also, its [faerun] confusing as hell (thats allowed isn't it?) to differentiate between the land and the sea. I personally would choose a less aesthetically pleasing map thats easy to read than one thats detailed but confusing. I would say use something made for dominions. there was a 1000 or so province map, but that may be a tad extreme.

From looking at them, theres going to be a lot of monkeys runnin around everywhere. I think I'm looking at using numbers to drown the enemy in a swarming mass of feces and furry little bodies.

And serpant creatures . . .?

I'd use the elephants to expand against indies at the very least, they're pretty great for that. From what I've heard the serpent creatures (Naga) aren't very good and looking at them I'm inclined to agree. They're quite expensive but and also slow, use tiny shields and have less hp then you'd think something that pricy would.

Just looking at the nagarishi makes me think you could make a pretty cool linebacker communion.

Have the nagarishi cast:
communion master, summon earthpower, invulnerability, quickness, whatever

then have a yogi cast:
communion master, body ethereal, personal luck, resist magic, whatever

have someone bless the communion (since all your mages are sacred, I'd reccomend a minor earth bless at the very least) and have a bunch of yogis armed with frost brands cast communion slave and then attack.

Later on you can have a Kinnara add:
communion master, mistform, mirror image, flight, air shield

I have no idea how practical this would be but it's fun to think about.

[Ludivico van]

see, i'm at the point where i know how to do normal shhhhhtuff and thats all. I have sought after the effect of communion slave/master spells. does it say it on there? i thought i checked, but i didn't see it. all i know is how its done. WHAT THE HELL DOES IT DO!

I hope you didn't inconvience yourself getting all of that for me. like, hopefully you didn't look all that up from the time i posted that post you quoted from until now. I'd feel like an a**hole for switching. I'm just more familiar with c'tis. although, I get the feeling its the same sort of idea in terms of troops, but with greater variation and undead and . . . well, not all that similiar. thank you though. I will most likely still use that combination or some variation of it, seeing as I have none of my own.

[Gokufan1988]

see, i'm at the point where i know how to do normal shhhhhtuff and thats all. I have sought after the effect of communion slave/master spells. does it say it on there? i thought i checked, but i didn't see it. all i know is how its done. WHAT THE HELL DOES IT DO!

I hope you didn't inconvience yourself getting all of that for me. like, hopefully you didn't look all that up from the time i posted that post you quoted from until now. I'd feel like an a**hole for switching. I'm just more familiar with c'tis. although, I get the feeling its the same sort of idea in terms of troops, but with greater variation and undead and . . . well, not all that similiar. thank you though. I will most likely still use that combination or some variation of it, seeing as I have none of my own.

Haha, don't worry about it. I've played Bandar Log single player so I'm familiar with their mages. And like I said I don't know if using that strategy would actually be a good idea.

The way communions work is that you have masters and slaves. One joins the communion by casting the astral 1/thaum 1 spell communion master or sommunion slave. Putting more slaves in the communion boosts the masters' magic skill in all paths as follows
+1 at 2 slaves
+2 at 4 slaves
+3 at 8 slaves
+4 at 16 slaves
and so on.
In addition, when the communion master casts a spell the fatigue generated from the spell is spread between all the members of the communion. Finally, any buffs applied to the masters are applied to all of the slaves.

There's a (long) guide here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37499

[Gregstrom]

Ludivico, you're down as C'tis now :)

Baalz wrote a nice guide to communions which might help you understand them better, by the way.

Unless people (including myself) find something wrong with the SpringRain map linked in my earlier post, we'll be using that.

I'll also be closing the game to new players at this point.

[Ludivico van]

i can live with that.

i hadn't played as ctis LA, only with that theme in dom 2 . . .

I miss my slaves haha but i can dig this map.

[Gregstrom]

Hokay. I've taken the map and after a bit of a struggle I've set some start points. The map's a little short on choke points, but never mind. Everyone should have 5 neighbours to their capital.

I've put the game on llamaserver, so feel free to submit your pretenders as soon as you like.

[hEad]

Gregstrom me old mate,

the link for the map down load appears to lead one to a post in the babylon 5 mod for space empires. Any chance you could ah, make the necessary adjustments please?

[Gregstrom]

I can't adjust the link on llamaserver, sadly. Instead, I'll put the link here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42427) and in the top post.

[hEad]

I can't adjust the link on llamaserver, sadly. Instead, I'll put the link here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42427) and in the top post.

Excellent! :up:

[Gregstrom]

Yay! 50% of pretenders uploaded already. Good stuff, y'all :)

[Gregstrom]

Hmm. It's been 13/18 for a fair while now. I'll pm reminders to the remaining 5 sometime over the next 24h.

[anticipatient]

I'm going to have to withdraw. don't have the time I thought I would.

[Gregstrom]

Well, that makes it 14/17 I guess. Unless someone passing by reads this and wants to sub, of course :D

[Agema]

I'll have my pretender in this evening. Apologies - I hadn't been keeping up with the file and failed to notice it was set up.

[Gregstrom]

I guess we can call it 15/17 :)

Excellent!

[Gregstrom]

...and now 16! Excellent. If we don't get a replacement for Anticipacient before the last expected pretender comes in, I'll force a start.

[Agema]

BTW, on that map supplied, one of the provinces (70 as I recall, a wasteland province) possibly has a bug, it only connects to two neighbours when it looks like it should connect to about 5.

[Gregstrom]

It's not province 70, 170 or 270, sadly. And it's not a start point either.

Still waiting on Ludivico Van to submit a pretender...

[llamabeast]

Fixed the map link!

[Gregstrom]

A thousand thankyous, llamabeast!

[Gregstrom]

Ludivico's not responded to an earlier PM I sent, so I've sent another.

Ludivico: If you're reading this, when can we expect to get your pretender in?

[Fate]

Just checked, the abnormal province appears to be 80 (it connects to 72 and 66 and looks like it should also connect to 88, 100, and 98).

[Gregstrom]

So it is. Thanks, Fate. The .map has been fixed and uploaded to llamaserver, and the game settings have been changed to use the fixed .map file.

On another note: I'm going to give Ludivico van about a day to speak up or submit a pretender before I kick this game off. He's been on the site recently enough to have both seen the game is accepting pretenders and picked up at least one of my pms.

If any of you have contact with him over other channels, could you give him a reminder please? I'd rather not lose a player, but I don't want to see this game dead in the water either.

[licker]

I found another couple provinces missing 'obvious' connections. Neither of them were particularly egregious, so long as no one winds up starting in one I suppose.

If I have time tonight (which is looking doubtful) and you haven't started it already I'll send them in.

I also had some glitch with the pretender I sent in (somehow I sent in one from a CBM build, even though the paths and scales were identical, just a difference in some points left over), I've sent in my 3rd pretender now anyway, but hopefully I got this one with the right email and right mods (or lack thereof).

So yeah, just a reminder to make sure you didn't have any mods that alter pretender designs active when you made yours and sent it in, and hopefully we don't get a 'Caelum Cheated' message proving me to be even more incompetent than usual.

[Gregstrom]

I checked all start positions on the map before setting them. There should be 5 neighbours on each land start and 4 for R'lyeh IIRC, since there wasn't much choice in water start positions.

[Gregstrom]

Well, it's been about a day... and a fair bit more. Serves me right for planning to do something on a Friday afternoon.

Off we go - last one to become transcendent is a big sissy!

[Caerun]

Transcendence?

Sod that, that's for sissies.

The last one to kick the collective behind of every single one of his/her neighbours is a gigantic sissy!

Also...

How the bloody *countless expletives deleted* does *expletive deleted* Atlantis end up starting in the middle of a *expletive deleted* forest? Just *expletives deleted* wondering.

[Gregstrom]

Now that's bizarre, and just plain bad for balance. I tried a couple of tests and got the coastal start province each time (also, the game is obliged to start LA Atlantis on the coast). I'm guessing there's some problem in the .map file that I don't yet have enough knowledge to understand.

Edit: This may require a restart, people. Apologies to all.

[Caerun]

No need to restart on my account. I don't mind starting inland.

Though I will warn anyone standing between myself and the nearest body of water to quickly move out of the way. :)

[Gregstrom]

Well, it's a quick fix and if it isn't done then R'lyeh gets unchallenged access to a lot of water, as I'm nowhere near the sea either. A restart isn't going to cost anyone too much time redoing their turns, either.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Fate]

Better a restart now than later, I am flexible.

[licker]

Whatever is fine. I like my start position, but am sure to like the next one as well.

I'm easy like that ;)

[Aethyr]

I think we should restart.

[cupido2]

I don't mind a restart

[Donny]

The problem is that the map originally is not a fixed start map, which works well i think, since the creator has set nations not be set to provinces with few connections. If it's changed to fixed start, and some other nations randomly picked up all the coastal start position prior to LA Atlantis, then it will have no choice other than starting in an inland province.

[Gregstrom]

So it seems. I had assumed the game would force Atlantis into a coastal province as it does with #setstart, but apparently not. A restart is forthcoming.

[AreaOfEffect]

@Gregstorm - I'm pretty sure that's intentional and hardcoded into the faction. Mictlan is considered an amphibious nation (amphibious units and underwater PD) and are obligated to give Ry'leh a hard time. A restart will not fix this.

[Agema]

Atlantis definitely should start on the coast, Mictlan I'm not sure.

[Gregstrom]

Mictlan has no requirements AFAIK.

[Illuminated One]

Meh.
Restarts hate me.

[Aethyr]

Hey folks, I've noticed that hosting has been set to quickhost @ 24 hours. Is this this intentional?

[Gregstrom]

No, I must have lost the preset hosting time when we restarted. I'd just assumed everyone was being timely about thair turns... I should have known it was too good to be true. I'll reset it to the originally announced turnaround now.

[Unoptimized]

Hey guys! I'm going to be gone untill next wend.

If the game could be postponed, I'd appreciate it :)

[Gregstrom]

Sure thing. I'll let turn 4 get generated, then postpone the next hosting as required.

[licker]

Marg staled last turn, can we get a confirmation that he's still in the game, as early drops kinda make a mess out of things normally.

[Gregstrom]

A PM has been sent. AlpineJoe has been logging on, so hopefully he'll read it shortly.

If I get no response, I'll post for a sub.

[Gregstrom]

Welcome back, Unoptimized!

[Fate]

Just to check, are we going to switch to patch 3.23?

[Gregstrom]

We're on llamaserver, and as can be seen elsewhere on the forum (here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40400), in fact) llamabeast has already patched llamaserver to 3.23. You'll need the patch to run today's turn.

[licker]

And there will be many 'cheating' messages which can all be ignored I think.

[Gregstrom]

There's not much point taking them seriously, as far as I can tell.

[Illuminated One]

One question, what are the rules on diplomacy?

Binding or Backstabbing?

[Gregstrom]

Hmm. I didn't specify, did I? It'll have to be the forum default then - I read that as being closer to binding than backstabbing.

[AreaOfEffect]

"Forum default", as I've known it, is never binding. This game isn't set up to enforce such contracts. That said, unbroken NAPs depend on how much people put stock into being trustworthy and honorable.

In theory you can always announce to the other players that some person broke an NAP, and people usually do. However, such announcements don't insight action on the part of others. They often get ignored and people tend to brush it off as petty squabbling.

If you really want to get assistance against someone who broke an NAP, the better way is to address his neighbors directly with PMs. This individualizes them and encourages action on their part. That's not really enforcement though, that's actually just good old fashion diplomacy. Still the best weapon in you arsenal.

[Gregstrom]

Well, that works for me.

[Agema]

I don't think NAPs should be utterly binding unless clearly stated as part of the game rules and in this game it wasn't. But anyone who would like others to know about someone's treacherous conduct by telling all should feel free.

[licker]

I don't think NAPs should be utterly binding unless clearly stated as part of the game rules and in this game it wasn't. But anyone who would like others to know about someone's treacherous conduct by telling all should feel free.

I don't see how it's even remotely possible to make NAPs utterly binding without the devs adding some code to enforce it.

It is as it always is, break a nap at your own risk to your reputation.

State naps publicly if you really want the extra 'protection' of course it's a good idea to make sure your partner wants it stated publicly as well ;)

[AreaOfEffect]

I don't see how it's even remotely possible to make NAPs utterly binding without the devs adding some code to enforce it.

The devs have no interest in coding such enforcements. They have purposely neglected adding in any such feature because they personally don't like it.

That said, there is a conceivable way to enforce it. Not in this game though. You would have to mod a game and create an overpowered nation. This nation would then be controlled by a moderator who wouldn't actually participate in the game. The nation could then be set in a province with no borders and cast down judgment using remote spells or teleportation. The moderator could not only enforce public NAPs, but also cause arena fights using a national version of the wish spell and hand out worth while rewards to the arena champs.

Another alternative is to play with people you know personally and agree to collectively beat on the guy who brakes an NAP.

[licker]

I actually did play in a game like you described (was dom2 though) but the moderator wasn't there to uphold naps, they were there as part of the larger narrative of the game (and to provide additional defense for victory points).

But yes, you can create artificial to deter people from breaking naps, but my point was more that you cannot do anything to actually stop them from issuing the orders.

That said, while I am not a nap breaker myself, i am a bit more relaxed in my attitude towards when they do get broken, though there better be some powerful extenuating circumstances for the justification. Rarely would I consider there to be justification in a last demigod standing game though.

So yeah, no worries about me in this game :)

[Agema]

A way to make enforced NAPs without mods would be to have the game organiser enforce a penalty on a NAP-breaker.

He could change email and therefore withhold the .trn file from the offender and enforce one or more staled turns; as a step further even access the .trn file himself and pay the victim gems or gold from the NAP breaker's treasury (although not if he was playing himself as he'd also get unfair advantage info on the nation); he could give the offender's .trn file to all the other players so they'd know exactly what he had; in really severe situations he could simply kick the player out and get a sub or turn it AI.

It's not impossible they could do a rollback when a complaint was made, access the turn and either undo the attacks or enforce a stale instead, but it's much less fuss to to create a punishment far worse than any advantage gained by the NAP treachery.

[licker]

I would never play in a game like that Agema. Far too much room for abuse and I cannot imagine how much people would whine and complain about it.

Still it could be done, but it still doesn't stop people from breaking the nap in the first place, only penalizes them after the fact. Only some kind of coded alliance system could do that, and we're not getting that :)

[hEad]

A way to make enforced NAPs without mods would be to have the game organiser enforce a penalty on a NAP-breaker.

He could change email and therefore withhold the .trn file from the offender and enforce one or more staled turns; as a step further even access the .trn file himself and pay the victim gems or gold from the NAP breaker's treasury (although not if he was playing himself as he'd also get unfair advantage info on the nation); he could give the offender's .trn file to all the other players so they'd know exactly what he had; in really severe situations he could simply kick the player out and get a sub or turn it AI.

It's not impossible they could do a rollback when a complaint was made, access the turn and either undo the attacks or enforce a stale instead, but it's much less fuss to to create a punishment far worse than any advantage gained by the NAP treachery.

I think that the opportunity for treachery is what makes diplomacy. I can see games played against the AI benefiting from some type of enforcement regime, but a pure MP game benefits from the unpredictability of human behaviour.

The consequences are apparent enough with in the game; no other player would be inclined to trust the backstabber - most likely leading to an eventual gang up on the now diplomatically isolated nation. Besides it just doesn't seem right for baby eating Lanka to be constrained by a little bit of paper...

Self regulation is the key. Let the games unfold as they will.

[Agema]

Yes, I mostly agree, although I do think if people signed up to a game where it was stated that NAPs were considered binding in metagame terms, you'd be making NAP-breaking cheating, and only cheats would do it, so it shouldn't be too bad. The punishment only really exists so people know what's coming to them if they cheat, and therefore sort of acts to reduce arguments.

Although obviously what was and wasn't acceptable under NAPs would also have to be totally clear, and I think you're right that there could be a lot of arguments anyway. Imagine if stealthy preaching was banned and you found a stealthy priest in your territory - the other NAP player could say he was just moving through or scouting and not preaching: impossible to resolve without an impartial 3rd party. Ideally the host would not play and be a referee, so he can see the 2h files when there's a dispute and know exactly what's happened if a complaint goes in.

But by and large it would be lot of trouble and effort for little gain. Personally, I'm not in favour of binding NAPs, but I think players who wanted to make it work could do so.

[licker]

I'm going to be gone from March 27th through the 30th so as this is already a slow game I'm hopeful that a little longer down time during that period will not be too much to ask for.

Otherwise I will try to find a 1 turn sub, but sometimes that's not so easy to do.

Thanks

[Gregstrom]

If things don't speed up, I doubt we'd even notice your absence.

It's possible AlpineJoe has disappeared, in which case a sub/AI would be called for.

[Gregstrom]

Cancel that - he's still putting turns in.

[licker]

Ok, so tonight may be my last night to put in a turn as we may leave tomorrow evening to beat a storm, so don't plan on me being able to play another turn until late Tuesday.

[Gregstrom]

No problem - keep us posted :)

[AreaOfEffect]

I understand this game is suppose to be slow and all, but I don't understand why we extended the turn for players who wait until the last moment. The only person who asked for an extension, to my knowledge, is licker, and his turn is in.

[Gregstrom]

Oops, I'd thought licker was TC when he's actually Caelum. In which case, the postponement is hereby undone.

As per originally, the turn will generate at 17:35 GMT.

[cupido2]

"*%ç"£! Fthagn these Indys! Iä! Iä!

[licker]

I'm back (if you even missed me) but could use 24h to get the turn in as it's so late now I don't want to bother doing anything screwy in a rush.

Are you Man Cupido2?

If so, yeah, @#$@$#ing indies ;)

We should talk though :)

[cupido2]

Man? Fthagn? R'lyeh n'gwuluh!

[Gregstrom]

The turn still has ~27 hours left to run, licker. Do you need more than that?

[licker]

Nope it's all good, woke up early (damn jet lag) and sent it in.

[Gregstrom]

My sympathies. Last time I had jet lag it was after a flight from NZ->UK, and that knocked me out for half a week.

[hEad]

Hi guys,

well with easter coming up i need to let you all know that I am taking my self and the family away for a week. (much needed mini holiday...)

I'll be leaving good Friday 10th April and returning the following Friday, the 17th. Would it be possible to get a week break in the game turns or...?

[LDiCesare]

hEad, I'll be leaving too from the 11th to the 19th, so a break would suit me too. (although I should be able to connect to the web on the 13th)

[licker]

It's fine with me.

[Gregstrom]

Hokey doke, I'll put a delay in at the time.

[hEad]

Thanks alot! :)

[Illuminated One]

So many knights...

[Gregstrom]

So true...

[P3D]

Grats to Unoptimized to Rushing me with Ermor and doing a good job for dom-killing me. Gath is now on AI.

Only other three games to run, yay!

[hEad]

I'm off early in the morning (10th) Back next friday (17th).
Hope you all have a good Easter.

[Gregstrom]

I reckon so. Have a good Easter yourself.

[Fate]

I am gone Sunday to Wednesday, but I guess it doesn't matter (assuming you're already delaying for hEad)

[Gregstrom]

Indeed so. The delay is now in, btw.

[Unoptimized]

Yea, thanks for the really good mach P3D. That war was full of nail-biting momments for me. You had a really impressive invasion army there. Considering what you had at your disposal, I was lucky that I found you early :). I'm just happy that I managed to make Ermor a little less early-game vulnerable.

[Unoptimized]

Hey, Marig has staled for the last two turns. Do we want to look for a sub or set them AI? I'd rather not wait until Sat. only to have another stale.

[Gregstrom]

I think I'll need to. There's no real excuse for staling twice in a row on a 96h turnaround.

[Agema]

My email has been iffy for the last week and totally down since Friday. I don't know when they're going to fix it but I might need a small extension or some other arrangement like a quick one turn pass to an alternative email.

[Gregstrom]

Passing to an alternate email will be no problem. Send me a PM.

As an alternative option, I've slapped on an 8 hour extension. That'll give you until midnight on Monday, which is hopefully enough time for the techs to fix things.

[Illuminated One]

Does anyone know what's up with Caelum?
They staled two times now.

[Gregstrom]

I was worried they might. Time for a sub/AI - as it looks like a strong position, hopwfully there won't be too much trouble with getting a sub. If anyone knows of a potential sub, please feel free to get in touch.

[Fakeymcfake]

I just took over Caelum so if anyone had any deals worked out (NAPs and the like) send me a PM to let me know.

[Illuminated One]

Tien Chi is looking for earth gems.
We can offer pearls, fire or water gems (or gold).

[AreaOfEffect]

This early in the game Earth gems are probably the most sought after gem.

[Fate]

I will be gone for the next week (Monday through Friday). Sorry for the late notice (I will still make it in this turn).

[Illuminated One]

My Email is down, can the game be delayed?

(Or is this a llamaserver problem the emails are sent but I don't get a response from the server)

[Gregstrom]

I've put in a 24h delay. I could try resetting your email address too, if you pm it to me.

[Illuminated One]

It's ok, they are sent, just extremely slow. No extension needed.

[Gregstrom]

Cool. Any idea where Pan's turn has got to?

[Unoptimized]

Hey guys, I was moving this weekend and didn't have enough time to take a turn. Could we please have a 24h delay?

[Gregstrom]

Done :)

[AreaOfEffect]

I will destroy you Unoptimized! I will rain down hellfire upon your people! I will... wow this book of spells is REALLY interesting. What was I saying again?

[AreaOfEffect]

I attempted to contact the admin and get my email changed about 24 hours ago. My regular email is experiencing problems and I can't download the latest turn. Furthermore, my access to internet has become very limited. I will not have the time to finish this turn since my request went unanswered.

Therefore, I am requesting a 24 hour delay + the requested email change.

Currently, I need both or I will stale. I'll keep looking for other solutions.

[AreaOfEffect]

Mail problem fixed with time to spare.

Note: I got no assistance. Somewhat upsetting.

[Gregstrom]

Sorry - yesterday was the day I drove home from the Scottish Highlands. Things were a little unsettled, and I wasn't in a position to read my PMs. I changed your email before seeing this forum post, but I guess you'll want it changed back.

[AreaOfEffect]

The current e-mail will do for now. Don't sweat it, things worked out in the end.

[Agema]

Bloody armies. They just get in the way of the guys doing the real work.

[Unoptimized]

I thought I had you there, what with all those knights. Part of why I like this game so much is because of the absurdly good opponent quality. So thank you for helping me out with my future LA Ermor planning. I really like the nation, and I'm trying to find ways to make it competitive post patch.

I LIKED that legion, however, and will eat the marrow from your bones until I feel better. Nothing personal.

(Ugh, who knew that I'd be laid low by vine shields and good bodyguard placement?)

[Agema]

Over the last few months, the forests of Utgard have grown at twice the normal rate from the amount of size-4 fertiliser deposited by the prospect of tackling those knights! :)

It was very close. I thought I could clear the main undead horde okay, but those knights were another matter. If I hadn't killed so many of them in the first battle I doubt I could have won the second.

[LDiCesare]

Are there any dwarven hammer resellers out there? (Man gently inquiring.)

[Calahan]

Well that's it for Marignon. Didn't have too much to work with when I subbed in, but put up some extra fight.

Congrats to the player who finished me off (leave it to the player in question to post their identity if they wish). Happy with how long I managed to hold out, but can't say I'm too happy with how much of a fight I put up. Felt confident of holding out against at least your first siege attempt, but Holy Prye really didn't do the damage I thought it would. Should have scripted Flame Cloud from the off on reflection. Also a bit annoyed my communion master cast Blade Wind. Since despite the damage it caused on your ranks, it also destroyed the fatigue of the communion slaves because they didn't have Earth paths, so they lost all their casting ability as a result. But then again an Earth comm master allowed me to cast group Earth Power for the re-invig. Who knows?!?

Enjoy the rest of the game everyone, and best of luck in controlling Ermor without the ultimate Ermor killers around to help out :)

Calahan, Steward of Marignon.

ps. I have sent my final .2h file in, which many players forget to (out of those few who stick around to the end that is)

[Gregstrom]

Thanks for playing, Calahan. I'm sorry it didn't work out better for you.

[Calahan]

No worries Greg. I only took on the Marignon position because it was pretty bad. To be honest I sub quite often but never take on 'good' positions, and always prefer to take the no hopers instead. As I feel that helps keep games more balanced for all the players by not giving away easy nation scalps due to the AI's ineptitude. Plus it's always easier to find subs for good positions rather than bad ones. (not that finding subs for any position is an easy task)

Got your PM about taking over Ulm. Will have to decline unfortunately. I'm already close to my limit on games, plus Ulm are doing too well for me to take them on :)

[Aethyr]

Calahan,

I must confess that you made things (almost too) interestng, as your front line held out longer than I expected and my flying Vanjarl did not reach your holypyre/fire cloud spaming mages as soon as I had planned.

You've taught me some subtlties about battle filed placement, for which I thank you.

I hope we can be allies next time insead of foes.

Regards,
A.

[Calahan]

Cheers Aethyr

I was also quite impressed by how long my front line held out. Think I got lucky in that the fighting was happening in the gateway, which is perfect for the side with the magic advantage as all the units are fighting head-on in a 2x2 grid, so no swarming can occur, meaning extra numbers are just evo fodder.

Also think it's usually a good idea to keep units well away from commanders during siege defences. As there is a danger that if you put small groups of units on 'Guard Commander', all that does is give a valid target to the opposing thug fliers set to 'Attack Rear'. So in effect all you are doing is giving them a bee-line to your commanders, which usually ends badly (unless the guards can fight off flying thugs).

Look forward to playing in future games with you, be thee ally or foe :)

All the Best
Calahan

[Fate]

Forget until today to mention I will not be able to access my computer for a week. I think that translates into the next 2 or 3 turns.

I am sorry for the inconvenience.

[Agema]

Advance warning: I'm away from 2nd July to the 10th. I'll try to arrange a sub.

[Gregstrom]

I'll smack on a 72 hour postponement. That should cover your missing week, I think.

[cupido2]

wtf... what the heck are shrimp-, shark- and crabwarriors??

[Gregstrom]

The answer you seek lies elsewhere...

[Calahan]

wtf... what the heck are shrimp-, shark- and crabwarriors??
Very nice with some butter, mild seasoning, a side order of salad, and red wine.

[Fakeymcfake]

Nah, you'd be better off with a white, seafood after all.

[AreaOfEffect]

wtf... what the heck are shrimp-, shark- and crabwarriors??

Clearly you don't read the patch notes very carefully. Good luck playing with your food.

[Agema]

A light-bodied red is still good with poultry or seafood. Although all wine is substantially worse when you open the bottle underwater.

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm sure you could get some sort of water bladder or sippy cup or something. I mean we can command beings beyond the mortal coil the least we can do is fashion an underwater wineskin. Perhaps from one of organs of aforementioned sea critters.

[cupido2]

I never read the patchnotes. All they do is spoiling those wtf-moments. O.k. men! To the lobster crackers and the bottles of light-bodied red wine! COME ON JOMON! SHOW ME ALL YOU'VE GOT! I'M NOT AFRAID OF YOUR FOOD!
(Duh, shrimp-warriors... what's next? Funghi-fighters? Noodle-knights? Ho-burgers?)

[Fate]

Just wait until I decide to bring out my Rice Cakes!

And thank you all for the delay.

[Gregstrom]

A pleasure.

Mictlan is looking to purchase Dwarven Hammers and possibly Death Gems. PM me to negotiate price etc.

[Agema]

Utgard is still looking for Dwarven Hammers too (price to be arranged by PM).

They're in very short supply. Where are all the Earth nations when you need them?

[Illuminated One]

Well, I guess Tien Chi is some kind of earth nation.
But you know we have to dig those earth gems up and they are so hard to find and we don't really like the idea of giving the beautiful craft of our hands away.
Otoh we would very much like some air boosters or blood stones.

[AreaOfEffect]

Ha, if he had blood stones he wouldn't really need hammers.

[cupido2]

Waaah. Now I fear the food. They're PD, aren't they... omg...
(Hehe, what fun battle that was. Go crab general! Go! Save the day! Haha)

[Fate]

Yes, I fear if this war continues much longer Jomon will be bankrupt.

[Gregstrom]

I wish I'd seen that fight.

[cupido2]

It was like a hooligan fight. A ton of madmen and psychos an my side, a bunch of seafood on the other side. They met on a flat underwaterfield and charged mindlessly into each other. While my men fought bravley naked and with their bare hands the seafood wore heavy armor and had pointy sticks so they slowly butchered through my lines of lunatics. They even killed some of those void-blobs. Then, all of a sudden, everybody ran away. (Perhaps the police, who was called by a neighbour, was about to arrive.) All but a crab general and some of my tired out men. The crab general seemed to be in a food frenzy and ran like heck after the slower rest of my retreating troopers. Pinching them to death, one by one. Ouch... beaten by menu 3 in a fish-restaurant...

[Agema]

Well, Jomon has crabbed the headlines a lot recently.

[Unoptimized]

Hey guys, sorry for being out of contact. My computer has received a nasty virus (system security is the DEVIL), and I am reduced to posting in safe mode. I would offer to find a sub, but my internet access is sporatic at best. I'm really sorry about this, and incredibly frustrated at present. When this is all over, I'm excited to play in future games.

[Agema]

Thanks to Stretch, who will be subbing for me whilst I'm away.

[Illuminated One]

It looks like Ermor needs a sub or to be set to AI.

[Gregstrom]

Darn. I'd seen they were doing pretty badly on the graphs, but it's still annoying to have them stale out.

[Fate]

I thought I posted that Iwas leaving for two weeks here, but I don't see it now...

I apologize for the very short notice, I am leaving tomorrow for two weeks and do not have a sub. Would you like me to set Jomon to AI?

[LDiCesare]

I don't mind waiting one more week. Ermor's more of a concern if he stales systematically. Given its situation (eaten by TC + Jotun at least and the usual micromanagement of LA Ermor), I'm unsure a sub can be found.

[Gregstrom]

I'm okay to wait, too. Rather that than another nation going AI right now.

[Fate]

Okay, thanks guys

But it is 2 (not 1) weeks I will be gone.

I will submit this turn. feel free to sub/ai me if you wish (I am afraid I will not be around to turn myself AI anymore).

[Illuminated One]

Well, the AI doesn't do to bad with Ermor right?
So could you set them to AI it's kind of annoying, the sieges just go on and nothing ever happens.

[Aethyr]

So, after the next host we will have a two week delay?

[cupido2]

Duh, I'll NEVER EVER take misfortune 3 again. All my army does is running around in circles to fend off barbarian and triton-invasions.

[Agema]

Ah, misfortune.

I played Mis-2, once in a game by my own devising, and once as a permanent sub. In the former I found it very frustrating. In the second it was crippling: in 30 turns, I had about 5 labs and 5 temples destroyed (in one particularly bad stretch, I lost one of either six turns consecutively). Revolts all over my empire: cost me two castle builds (over 2000 gold down the drain!), and two would have doomed me had an enemy been more aggressive, as they hit a vital crossroads province that would have left me unable to combine my armies against his. (My PD even at 25 wasn't able to stop knights).

It's the unpredictability I can't bear, the chance that something really, really important goes. I'd take death scales any day. It might be damaging, but at least it's steady, controlled decline which you can plan around. Other people have other views, of course.

If you have high Mis, you might generally want high PD (20 or so?). Good PD should mostly stop weaker revolts like barbarians and tritons. On grassland and plains where you can get nastier enemies like knights, PD might not work, and you probably just have to suck that punishment up. Alternatively, if it's a really important province and you don't want to put a fort on it, build a lab, and station several research mages there. When the revolt arrives, they'll assist the defence and their spellpower should be enough to help the PD see off the invaders.

[Fakeymcfake]

Going on a short vacation and I'm not entirely sure when I'll be back. So while I've submitted this turn if it doesn't look like I'll get the next in before the date it's due in I'd ask that you delay the turn until wednesday.

[Gregstrom]

The big postponement for Fate is in place - hopefully the game will quickhost, at which point I'll put in another postponement.

[cupido2]

Thanks for the help Agema. I think I just suck it up. R'lyeh PD isn't the best even with all the freespawnchaff hanging around in the provinces. I usually take luck 2-3 so I'm used to a gold and gem shower every two month, so I presume those permanent bad news bug me more.

[Fate]

Wow, thanks for the VERY long delay. I am back and will continue to submit turns as usual. I shouldn't miss any for a while now.

[AreaOfEffect]

Looking for water gems. Message me with offers please.

[Hoplosternum]

LA Ulm has been set to AI as I was brought in to do. Sorry about the stall, I had got used to the two weeks between turns :p

I played a few turns just to see what LA Ulm was like. And they had a stack of cash I wanted to spend :) I have to say I don't think much of LA Ulm. The position was hopeless of course in this game. But I can't see they have much potential anyway. It is micromanagement hell without much power at the end.

Want to cast almost any battle spell? You'll need a communion. For just about everything, even to get Summon Earthpower :p

With very low path mages overland spells (even site searching) is tough. And globals, summons and more fancy forging impossible without trades or empowerment in all paths. And research seems poor, even for LA.

It is a blood nation but the low quality blood mages mean you can't do much with the blood without a lot of empowerment, hardly something limited to LA Ulm, but it does mean blood is more micromanagement than usual.

The immortal Vampire Counts gather free chaff and can blood hunt. But thats it. They make poor thugs as they have few castable buffs and are too weak to be used without equipment (which is lost when it dies).

I took a brief look at the guide and it mentioned a go to battle spell. Sadly it doesn't seem to be in my manual and it never came up as an option on my casting lists so I have no idea what it's requirements are or if it would indeed have saved them....

Anyway Ulm is gone to AI. The two main neighbours of Ulm are Vanheim and TC so these two are likely to benefit most. So the rest of you have been warned. Their lands lie in a strip along the Western edge of the map.

[Gregstrom]

Many thanks for standing in as long as you did, Hoplo. And more thanks are due for setting Ulm to AI.

[Aethyr]

So long Hoplo, even with all you've said you made be bleed for evary scrap of ground. :)

Although, seeing that Van is woefully behind in the two most vital areas (research & gems), I'm not sure how much of a threat we pose to anyone. :p

[AreaOfEffect]

Interesting, only four more players need to submit a turn and its been almost 24 hours I think.

[AreaOfEffect]

Though it hasn't been that many turns since I last conducted diplomacy, it certainly has been a long while in actual time. I was also recently forced to clear out my inbox.

So for the sake of making things easy on me, please contact me if we have a standing NAP. Thanks.

[Agema]

Sorry to a bit throw toys out of pram, but I'm switching to AI if you can't find a sub.

The reason? Pretty much my entire army has just been wiped out largely because the AI, in it's great and glorious wisdom, declined to cast the one, critical spell I'd scripted it to that was entirely necessary - and yes, I had all the gems and paths I needed.

If the AI won't cast it, I can't possibly fight Ermor with any hope winning, and I'm just a little bit too pissed off to bother going through a long and protracted death.

[AlgaeNymph]

Pretty much my entire army has just been wiped out largely because the AI, in it's great and glorious wisdom, declined to cast the one, critical spell I'd scripted it to that was entirely necessary.What spell was that?

[Illuminated One]

Pangea is staling to death, too.

[Agema]

Relief. N1 mage, communioned with 8 slaves (+3), given 2 gems, one to get to n5, 1 to cast relief. And the AI cast swarm. I may still have lost the battle even it were cast, but at least my losses would have been something less than completely catastrophic.

[AlgaeNymph]

Oh yes, that would've been the perfect counter to Rigor Mortis. Instead, the AI decided to be stupid and make it easy for me.

[cupido2]

Huarg. I got a corrupt turn file. What shall I do?

[AreaOfEffect]

Request a turn resend from llamaserver. See if that helps.

[cupido2]

Request a turn resend from llamaserver. See if that helps.

Didn't help. It's still corrupted...

[Gregstrom]

I've put in a 24h extension to allow time for debate. Based on what I've read in other threads, this is pretty bad news.

I think rehosting has been tried, but the turn file in question was corrupt after the rehost too.

That said, I'm okay with rehosting the turn if that's what people want.

Can I have opinions, please.

[AreaOfEffect]

This is bad timing in my opinion. This could have been mentioned three days earlier. I hope your not suggesting a roll back cause at this point it sets us back 2 turns rather then 1. Also, these turns are getting very important for me and others and I generally consider roll backs to be bad.

Even if you just rolled back and immediately forced host, it would still require everyone to redo their turns because of rerolled random events and battles.

I would be more sympathetic, I really would, but last I knew R'lyeh was not at war with anyone. Plus the fact he mentioned an error which could have been known half a week ago. If he is at war, then by all means I apologize, but I would still think this is bad timing.

[cupido2]

Me too am against a rollback, strange things can happen there. If the next turn file isn't corrupt, I have no problem with stalling this turn (although I AM at war, but those wars are not at a crucial point right now. And I have to admit that I already stalled twice during this game. I apologize for this). But the timing-thing I cannot let sit on me. I chose this game with the long host-times because I'm busy at work and home right now, so don't blame me to not look at and play the turns immediatly after the hosting.

[Illuminated One]

I wouldn't mind a delay to sort things out.
A rollback would probably be bad though.

[Gregstrom]

Looks like noboday wants a rollback then. That's fine by me, and I'll wind back the extension since there doesn't seem to be much that can be done about the corrupt file.

[LDiCesare]

I'm in favor of a rollback personally.

[AreaOfEffect]

cupido, I mean no offense. I suppose people choose to play a slow game for different reasons. For me, it was so I would be forced to stew and think about each turn carefully. I often resubmit my actions an average of 2 times per turn.

Then again, someone also asked me if I would play in this game.

[Agema]

I'm generally only in favour of a rollback if something absolutely crucial occurred you could make preparations to prevent which would cause severe problems for your strategic position. (e.g. a major fort was being stormed and you needed to prepare the orders for its defence.) It also has to be something so critical that it overwhelms the importance of everything else that went on - for instance, if two other nations had a huge battle, a rollback allows the loser to change tactics or avoid the fight.

I appreciate it's annoying to lose a turn by corruption - I've suffered it and probably anyone who has played plenty of games has - but unless it makes a vast, vast difference to your position, it shouldn't really be done.

[Illuminated One]

Zhu Yi folds his hands and bows.

Really an awesome battle Algeanymph, and really close (at least in the battle bug view I get you killed my Golem at turn 70 or so) but never underestimate the might of the Celestial Empire. :D

[Agema]

A scout has reported back to Utgard HQ on that one. A mighty contest indeed, although even if the battle had occurred as per the bugged version it would have been a Pyrrhic victory for Ermor.

[Caerun]

... and Atlantis falls.

Going AI. Well played to the opposition. Good luck to anyone still in game.

[LDiCesare]

... and Atlantis falls.

Going AI. Well played to the opposition. Good luck to anyone still in game.
Well... Now I can strike back at Caelum.

[cupido2]

I'm a bit uncomfortable about my victory against the mighty Jomon superfighter. He did so well but fell to the three things-with-many-eyes. If only he would have been faster on his feet...

[Agema]

Atlantis fallen?

You still have your capital's fort with a decent mage force, at least one army, and plenty of provinces. There's life in you yet.

[Caerun]

Well, with my skill levels being what they are, I'm not seeing any conclusion to the situation that results in anything short of complete loss.

I've got a tenuous hold on a few provinces, a good third of which spent the past 50 turns under Ermor dominion, I'm looking at R'lyeh joining Man in the invasion process with an army that I might be able to annoy in the same way a speed bump annoys a 10-ton truck.

Once my capital falls, I'm very limited in my choices of mages and while I do have a decent number of Angakoks left, my scattered research means I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to use them. I've got taxes up to 200 on everywhere and yet I'm not even able to make upkeep, let alone recruit.

Simple fact is I've played myself into a corner. Now, I recognize I could indeed mount a last-ditch defense here and be irritating and perhaps even hurt the incoming Mannish and squidface armies, but I'm afraid I've got no fight left in me.

Make of that what you will.

[Fate]

I am confused as to what happened. In my version my valiant warrior served his purpose (except in the report of course). Do you see him getting paralyzed by the many-eyed beasties?

[cupido2]

I think combat turn limit was hit and he routed.

[Aethyr]

Guys--

I'll be setting myself to AI this turn. Midgard was simply no match for the brutal effeciency and impressive might at Bogarus' command. Watch out folks, he is VERY strong.

AOE, in spite of a half-hearted attempt at role play, the outcome was never in doubt. Well done.

[Gregstrom]

Thanks for sticking it out, Aethyr. Question of the day: can anyone stop the awesome might of Bogarus?

[AreaOfEffect]

Sad to see you go Aethyr. Thanks for putting up a fight and good luck to you in future games.