Retreating into enemy territory

[Dorjan]

If you have the spell that is meant to return you home if you die active you aren't returned and are lost :(

Could this be fixed? Please! :D

[Fantomen]

It is not supposed to return you if you die from one hit, it only returns you if you are hurt and survives.

Hence, it is not a bug.

[lch]

Please add bug reports like these to the Bug discussion thread.

[Dorjan]

It is not supposed to return you if you die from one hit, it only returns you if you are hurt and survives.

Hence, it is not a bug.


Oh... I thought it worked even if you "died" in one hit. Still, I can't imaging why the would be classed as dieing in one hit just becasue they ran away.

So I'll leave it here for discusion

[llamabeast]

I guess this is the issue with dying on running from an assassination again? Did you lose a pretender? That kind of bad luck can be very annoying.

There's been some discussion on whether it's reasonable that fleeing from an assassination kills you. I think the conclusion was "not entirely reasonable, but necessary to make assassinations at all effective".

[Dorjan]

I guess this is the issue with dying on running from an assassination again?

No, this is after another MP game, totally different event, but I thought I would bring it up at the same time.

This one was actually from an attemp at a remote attack using call of the winds for the useless birds to backup a mage that put himself right into the thick of it (I was really new and didn't realise about the losing troops will make the top mage run away >.<) and he ran and died even with the spells active.



There's been some discussion on whether it's reasonable that fleeing from an assassination kills you. I think the conclusion was "not entirely reasonable, but necessary to make assassinations at all effective".

No offence, but they are rubbish at making assassins then :lol:

[Endoperez]

How can you "make" assassins? That implies someone spent gems on him, and spending gems on anything that can be killed by province defense is very risky. To my knowledge, no one has figured out how to make massed assassins useful in competitive multiplayer. If you feel someone has, I'd very much like to read how me managed it.

The problems with assassinations are two-fold: assassins die easily, and assassins need items to kill their targets.

Very few nations have worthwhile national assassins. EA and LA Abysia might have, but they're capital-only, which severely limits their use. C'tis Empoisoners are nifty because enemy mages will spend gems against them. Blood nations can put a Black Heart on anything stealthy, which opens up some really tough creatures - Jotun Scouts and Pans, for example - and that MIGHT be worth it. However, most assassins lack the offensive ability to kill someone with bodyguards, and can't surive more than a few of the things a mage worth killing can cast.

Not to mention that assassins can be killed with province defense, patrolling militia or spells like Mind Hunt that can target stealthy commanders. Note that assassination spells and normal assassins are usually talked separately, because the former are used and the latter aren't. Assassination spells can be sent anywhere, their gem cost/success ratio is better and your enemy can't switch his army to "patrol" to remove the troublemaker.


Now, there are exceptions. Assassins can be used to force a player to give all his important commanders bodyguards (taking resources away from elsewhere) and/or invest in patrollers, and a surprise assassination can really ruin someone's plans. Succubi (with their good hp and flight) are tough and fast assassins, and there's always the small chance of successful seduction. Black Heart could also change things.

As I said, if you've seen assassins used effectively, more detailed explanation would be appreciated. As you've noticed, most people here don't think that assassins are as bad as you make them to be. Alternatively, you could just start using assassins yourself - most people here wouldn't expect them, so it could end up working really well.

[JimMorrison]

...Note that assassination spells and normal assassins are usually talked separately, because the former are used and the latter aren't. Assassination spells can be sent anywhere, their gem cost/success ratio is better and your enemy can't switch his army to "patrol" to remove the troublemaker.
...
As I said, if you've seen assassins used effectively, more detailed explanation would be appreciated. As you've noticed, most people here don't think that assassins are as bad as you make them to be. Alternatively, you could just start using assassins yourself - most people here wouldn't expect them, so it could end up working really well.

Judging by the other thread, I'm quite certain that he is referring to having remote spells spammed at him repeatedly.

[Dorjan]

...Note that assassination spells and normal assassins are usually talked separately, because the former are used and the latter aren't. Assassination spells can be sent anywhere, their gem cost/success ratio is better and your enemy can't switch his army to "patrol" to remove the troublemaker.
...
As I said, if you've seen assassins used effectively, more detailed explanation would be appreciated. As you've noticed, most people here don't think that assassins are as bad as you make them to be. Alternatively, you could just start using assassins yourself - most people here wouldn't expect them, so it could end up working really well.

Judging by the other thread, I'm quite certain that he is referring to having remote spells spammed at him repeatedly.

Thank you for your input. It's both actually but I've had it before, don't think this is a rant about "omg someone is using a 1337 spell and i'm losing" It's not. I'm winning and if i'm not going to end top 2nd (if there is such a thing in dom3) is 100%. This was a 5 player game also. Exactly your point about normal assasins but the other thread is about how assasination attempts (spells or otherwise) is handelled. I still kill every other Earth Elemental but the things i'm mentioning (in the other thread) happens it makes me not want to play dom3 (even if i'm winning) because it feels broken.

Anyway this thread has nothing to do with assasins so can we go back to the orginial point :)

[Sombre]

Pretty sure this is WAD. Returning isn't meant to return you if you're killed by having nowhere to retreat to.

[licker]

I like Tirs assassins personally, but they have a limited window of opportunity, unless your opponent has no access to lightning immunity.

Even then they can spam some ghost warriors and hope :)

Oh, and if you actually put anything on them, they yeah, even betterness!

[Ornedan]

Pretty sure this is WAD. Returning isn't meant to return you if you're killed by having nowhere to retreat to.Pretty sure it's a bug. Or rather an interaction not thought through properly.
Ritual of Returning is supposed to take you home if you are damaged. Dying from having nowhere to retreat implies you get caught and killed. Which implies damage happening at some point.
And if one wants to think about it sensibly, if you're under RoR and have nowhere to retreat to, just cut yourself or drop a rock on your foot. Or something. Successfull retreat right there.

[Sombre]

Well if you want to think about things sensibly there's a huge amount of stuff in dom3 that makes no sense at all (like a flier dying when escaping from an assassination, as a random example). But most of it is WAD, not a bug.

[vfb]

New Dom3! With emo scripting!

(Summon Earthpower)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Cut Self)

With RoR if you are insta-killed, you don't return. Retreat into enemy territory equals capture and decapitation.

[JimMorrison]

New Dom3! With emo scripting!

(Summon Earthpower)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Cut Self)

With RoR if you are insta-killed, you don't return. Retreat into enemy territory equals capture and decapitation.

Seriously, I would stab myself in the leg, before I was caught. :p Right in the meaty part of the thigh, with conviction. It's just a flesh wound!

[Fate]

New Dom3! With emo scripting!

(Summon Earthpower)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Cut Self)

With RoR if you are insta-killed, you don't return. Retreat into enemy territory equals capture and decapitation.

Seriously, I would stab myself in the leg, before I was caught. :p Right in the meaty part of the thigh, with conviction. It's just a flesh wound!

Would you also stab yourself in the leg when the Flying SC cuts off your escape route and laughs as your measly 8 health is overcome by their fire shield?

[JimMorrison]

New Dom3! With emo scripting!

(Summon Earthpower)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Blade Wind)(Cut Self)

With RoR if you are insta-killed, you don't return. Retreat into enemy territory equals capture and decapitation.

Seriously, I would stab myself in the leg, before I was caught. :p Right in the meaty part of the thigh, with conviction. It's just a flesh wound!

Would you also stab yourself in the leg when the Flying SC cuts off your escape route and laughs as your measly 8 health is overcome by their fire shield?

Yes. I can only stab myself in the leg for 2HP (I am a flimsy mage!), so why would I even take a swing at the guy with an 8dam Fire Shield? I just want to go home!

[Meglobob]

It is WAD and is a needed mechanic in Dom3. Otherwise, Dom3 would be spoiled by everyone going for returning mages that were effectively unkillable and could slaughter entire armies without chance of dieing.

If you think about it, what you are argueing for is immortality in enemy dominion. Not good, not good at all. It would be a worse exploit than the air mage/air queen casting Mists of Deception then retreating, which so, so many people complained about.