MilkShake - Vanilla; Multi-Age; Catan Rules; Mulligan(1) - Closed

[AreaOfEffect]

(Please read the rules before volunteering for this game.)

Description: I've hosted a few games before and played in many more. I want to avoid many of the pitfalls that most games tend to have, especially those with randomly generated maps. This game will have special rules for starting locations and nation selection. I will also be borrowing a very simplified version of the rules from chrispedersen Mulligan game. These rules will hopefully allow me to alleviate any problems people have while the game is in running. The ultimate goal is to avoid any player complaints, mostly by distributing responsibility onto the players themselves.

Catan Rules:

Players will start by reserving a position in the game. Players should not announce there nation of choice yet.
The game will start with a map already generated. After examining the map, each player will announce the start location they would like in the order they were positioned. First player to last player.
All start locations must be at least 2 provinces away from each other. If there are no more valid start locations, the selection will conclude and the remaining players will unfortunately be rejected from the game.
Once a player has announced a valid start location their choice cannot be undone for any reason.
Once all start locations have been chosen, players may begin to select their nation of choice, but in the reverse order of their position. Last player to first player.

The above rules should remove any complaints about poor start locations. Your the one who chooses, so no more whining. Selecting the nations in reverse is designed to counter any disadvantage from being bottom on the list. Remember, if your down at the bottom and there doesn't look like anything good is left, there is no pressure on you to play.

Mulligan(1) Rules:

Each player will begin the game with one mulligan.
Any player may expend their mulligan provided there are still 12 hours left until the next turn is hosted.
Once a mulligan has been expended, the game will be rolled back to the previous turn.
This is the only way the game will ever experience a rollback. There are no free rollbacks.
You can use the mulligan for any reason.

Additional Rules:

Finding a substitute is the sole responsibility of the player, not the host.
If any player stales 3 times within the last 5 turns, they will automatically be set to AI. Playing every other turn isn't really playing at all.

The additional rules above is so that I have a clear guideline that allows me to move the game along in the case of player absence. Now for the details of the game itself.

Age: Multi-Age (all nations allowed)
Map: Randomly Generated, 216 provinces (Attached Below)
Mods: Single Age (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=608870&postcount=41), Streamers and Standards (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989)
Host: llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net)
Players: 11

Renaming: Allowed
Graphs: Off
Special Site Frequency: 50
All Other Settings: Default

Position/Player/Location/Nation:
01.AreaOfEffect (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9867).......186..MA Ermor :computer:
02.chrispedersen (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=5693)......87...LA Ry'leh :computer:
03.hEad (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9700)...............182..EA Tir Na n'Og :clock:
04.viccio (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=14879).............86...LA Gath :clock:
05.mikh4il (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=15940)............94...EA Helheim :hurt:
06.Ossa (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9937)...............7....EA Hinnom :clock:
07.Falkor (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9519).............25...EA Lanka :dagger:
08.Unoptimized (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9991)........114..EA Niefelheim :hurt: (Formerly controlled by Incabulos (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=12348))
09.Starshine_Monarch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9076)..132..LA Abysia :hurt:
10.Dragar (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=10050).............189..LA Utgard :dagger:
11.statttis (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=13251)...........31...LA Marignon

Icons:
:hurt:: Eliminated - Nation defeated with either no dominion or no provinces.
:computer:: AI Controlled - Nation in play but controlled by a bot.
:dagger:: Player Kill - Granted to a player from another player who was eliminated or set to AI.
:trophy:: Game Winner - Remaining players concede that this player won.
:clock:: Mulligan - Player still has a mulligan available for their use.

[chrispedersen]

Sign me up - 87 And cool rules =)

[AreaOfEffect]

Nice move Chris! I like that the game has already become strategic. I'm already convinced that this is the way to run games in the future.

[chrispedersen]

This is the way Settlers of Catan does setups - It was a great idea you had AoE. I was tempted to ask you to put me in position 4 or so ..... but I thought that would be toooo cheesy =).

[hEad]

Nice Idea! I'll take 182 please.

[viccio]

I'll take 86 (I would try this rules :) )

[mikh4il]

i'd take 94

[AreaOfEffect]

I've just updated the game page. All start locations so far are valid. I've also added an image file of the map that discretely defines peoples starting locations so the incoming players can more easily choose their base of operations.

Note: It isn't necessarily for you to choose a start location the same time you sign up for the game. My suggestion is to reserve your position first, then carefully choose your capitol. Nothing would be worse then taking the time to choose a start location and then find it to be invalid because of someone's recent post. However, this is not a license to take your time as the people after you will be waiting on your decision.

@chris. Interesting comment about Settlers of Catan. I do enjoy that game, but I can't say I was inspired by it at all.

[chrispedersen]

I like the game a lot; also liked citystates; and the board game Dune. I was a Dune fanatic at one time - memorized every hand every player had... old and forgetful now = )

Excellent job on the map updates and icons. Innovative. Now you could put a 1, 2, 3, 4 in each territory....

[Ossa]

I'd like to start in province #7

[Falkor]

Very interesting concept.
I'd like to start in #25.

[AreaOfEffect]

Interesting choice Ossa. I know most players would scream my head off if they got a start location like that one. I can't wait to see what your nation of choice will eventually be.

Also, given the similarity these rules have to Settlers of Catan I've renamed the rules accordingly. Not a big deal though. Just sounds better.

[chrispedersen]

Aww, I liked calling it milkshake rules. But Author gets to name = ).


Comments:
But, on the subject of open positions left - I don't think you can really shoe horn more than 3 or *maybe* 4 positions in.

More than that and the person that will pick last will be very close to someone that will pick first.

Suggest you start having votes. Close it whenever the majority want to close. That way people *won't* want to leave a big space for anyone - but at the same token they will balance that with not wanting someone to start next to them.

Its an idea anyway = ).

Also realize, theres nothing preventing anyone from starting a strong bless nation.. right next to you!

[AreaOfEffect]

Well, that's part of the game. If someone chooses to place themselves two provinces away from you and then chooses a bless nation, then their hand has been revealed. You still have the chance to choose a nation and/or pretender fit to counter them.

Pretender designs will be the ultimate last chance to balance yourself against the given environment. I find it to be fair and much more balanced then random place settings. Luck will have little to do with the victor of this game.

[chrispedersen]

I wasn't complaining = )... Variant for next game?

Make a list of nations:

Ea-Niefle
Ea-Mictlan
LA-Ermor
Ea-Vanheim
EA-Caelum
etc


let the players sign up for the nations.. and then let them pick the starting setup in reverse order... So Caelum would pick position first, then vanheim etc.

Also interestingly, you could start with different nations having advantages for example. Perhaps bogarus would start with three territories...

Bandarlog would start with two, on an island in the middle of the board....

[Incabulos]

Great concept.. 114 please

[Starshine_Monarch]

Can I have 132 please?

[AreaOfEffect]

Of course you can. Original post and map updated.

I'm not sure why, but it seems that people so far have given me a lot of breathing room. That won't last however as the picks for decent start locations are limited mostly to my region and perhaps a few spots near a lake. I'm pretty confident that we can squeeze in the remaining 3 players. 18 provinces a piece was a good call I think.

[AreaOfEffect]

It becomes clear to me that in order to start this game fairly, we are going to need at least 2 more players. If any of you knows anyone you think might enjoy this game, by all means, ask them to join.

[AreaOfEffect]

Alright everyone. We have three major options in my opinion.

-The first is that I do up another smaller map and we go through this process again. Though if we do this I expect we might lose a player or two given the lengthiness of the process.

-The second option is to play the game as it is and deal with the consequences of that.

-The third option is to bump the post until we get at least another 2 players.

Opinions anyone?

[Dragar]

i'll play, can't access the map for a fair few hours though to pick a site. If I haven't picked by the time only one spot is left, please assign me to that location!

[Incabulos]

Alright everyone. We have three major options in my opinion.

-The first is that I do up another smaller map and we go through this process again. Though if we do this I expect we might lose a player or two given the lengthiness of the process.

-The second option is to play the game as it is and deal with the consequences of that.

-The third option is to bump the post until we get at least another 2 players.

Opinions anyone?

wait for the players in my onion.

[hEad]

What about we close off the players, keep the map and the order we have, pick our places again if desired and get cracking!

[chrispedersen]

AoE you've done a great job, so don't take it personally.

I'm twisting JimMorrison's arm into playing, and I'm trying a few others.

But if they don't sign on soon - I'd say there's nothing wrong with the map - and even nothing wrong with the number of players - just people a bit unevenly distributed.

Why not start from #1 and go to the end, in order, and see if people want to change their starting locations. Seems like the fastest process.

[Dragar]

187

[GrudgeBringer]

hEad has been recruiting and has asked if I was interested..

The premise is GREAT and I like what I see (even though I don't understand everything involved).

MY individual problem isn't with the game, map or players....

Its these single age games confuse me. I have enough trouble picking a Nation when its 1 age.

I just don't know what Nations measure up to others and the advantages (or should I say Disadvantages) when they are competeing from different eras.

So, I will watch from afar and try and gather in as much info as I can for the next one.

I just wanted you to know that your players are out there recruiting and that even to a relative newcomer to MP the game seems like a lot of fun.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Can I request applying the Streamers and Standards mod to this game? It won't do anything to gameplay, but some nations have the same flag throughout the three ages. If we had say, two ages of C'tis or MA and LA Man on the same map, it would end up being quite confusing without the mod.

[Dragar]

sucks there is no sheep port on this map :(

[AreaOfEffect]

Starshine, That's request is fine with me.

GrudgeBringer, My apologies for the 1 age thing. I'm sure there are way too many of these game around, but I myself haven't played in many of them at all. I personally may not know how the nations stack up against each other, but the best way to know in my opinion is to just play a game. Plus, if I remember correctly, it was mostly, though not completely, early-age nations that had the best survivability in the last all-nations game, Kingmaker.

With the addition of Dragar and the possibility of Jim, I'm inclined to wait it out and bump regularly. I'll update the things when I'm don't with work later today.

[AreaOfEffect]

Took me long enough, but the game page and map is updated. I'm more comfortable now with the number of players. There is still room for more, but I'm tempted to place a deadline that has us choosing nations by this Sunday.

[statttis]

I'd like province 31

[Dragar]

Sorry, got the number wrong, meant 189. Sorry AoE

[GrudgeBringer]

Ya know..what the heck, I can lose at this just as fast as any other game.

If you still need players I'm in....I guess now I need to pick a province to start in just in case your not full.

[GrudgeBringer]

I will take 106

[AreaOfEffect]

106 would be an invalid starting position. It is directly next to another player and you need to be at least 2 provinces away. Sorry Grudge. Try again if you like.

[chrispedersen]

Figure you your nation Grudge! Looks like you pick first .. Hinnom?

[chrispedersen]

Weird! Did someone edit my post???

Hey AoE, why not let people choose their nations in secret - just have someone not in the game tell them if they can choose that nation or not.

[AreaOfEffect]

I thought about that and it gets complicated real fast and I don't trust that someone else would do it correctly.

I don't know about the editing bit. You look like your grammatically challenged.

[chrispedersen]

Weird, I had suggested like 140, 144, 160

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I knew it looked to good to be true....I have having trouble with figuring out how the provinces are numbered.

I wrote down EVERY dang Persons starting place and spent an hour trying to figure out where I wanted...

I will try agian after work and if that doesn't work I will bow out so you guys can get on with it.:D

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, 112 then and if thats too close for someones taste then I would trust AOE, Ossa, Chrisdeperson, stattis, ect to chose me a place. I plan on playing a cash intensive nation if that gives anyone a hint (LOL):D

[AreaOfEffect]

112 is invalid, it is one province away from the 9th pick. You really make this harder then it has to be. I've done that work for you. That's why there is a modified image file of the map in the original post. Just locate a province using that and then find out what province it is using the real map.

[Dragar]

AoE, are yuo able to alter my start position to 189 as mentioned above? had typoed it in. As long as stattis doesnt' mind I suppose, he selected his before I posted the change

[GrudgeBringer]

OH....:doh:

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, after looking at all the spots I have the choice of being in the dead middle of about 3 players or have no fertile provinces (guess thats what you get when you pick last).

Thanks for helping me Chris and for pointing out the starting positions marked on the mao in the forum AOE.

I D/L the map but really never looked at the one on the forum.

I DO like the idea of picking first nation, but would hAVE to go with an Ashod or Hinnom to rusg someone and I really am not that good of player.

I will sit this one out and watch it and be prepared for the next one....

Thanks for waiting for me and I'm sorry if I set you back.

[AreaOfEffect]

My apologies Dragar, I had the map file correct with position 189 marked, but I forgot to list your position as 189 on the original post. I did feel like I was bending my own rules at the time, but I didn't think it mattered since stattis didn't choose a location anywhere near where you were.

Since a highly interested player won't play because none of the remaining positions seem desirable, I'll declare the first phase of MilkShake complete.

Congrats everyone! It is now time to choose our nations. Starting with statttis.

[statttis]

LA Marignon

[Dragar]

LA Utgard

[Dragar]

do yuo want to put the game up on llamaserver so people can upload pretenders as soon as they have selected? Might save us a day or two at the end of selection process

[Starshine_Monarch]

LA Abysia for me, please.

[AreaOfEffect]

Interesting, it seems the mulit-age function on the llamaserver adds the Single Age Mod. Oh well. The game page has been built. The current map is just a place holder for the finalized version of our map.

[Incabulos]

Niefelheim Please

[AreaOfEffect]

Interesting choices so far. I surely thought statttis was going for a strong amphibious nation, but a versatile sailing nation works just as well.

I think chris should be glad that Incabulos choose a powerful land nation rather then an amphibious one. Though that's going to be a tough nut to crack and they do have thugable commanders and water magic for eventual water invasion.

Excited to see what the next choice will be.

[Falkor]

My choise is Lanka

[chrispedersen]

Interesting choices so far. I surely thought statttis was going for a strong amphibious nation, but a versatile sailing nation works just as well.

I think chris should be glad that Incabulos choose a powerful land nation rather then an amphibious one. Though that's going to be a tough nut to crack and they do have thugable commanders and water magic for eventual water invasion.

Excited to see what the next choice will be.


Mutter, mutter: And I think you should have let one more person join =P.

Oh great: Incan gets My number again = )

[Ossa]

That would have been my choice as well:/

So I'll choose EA Hinnom

[mikh4il]

so i ll go for ea helheim

[viccio]

I will try LA Gath

[hEad]

MA Man for myself please.

[chrispedersen]

Well LA-R was hit pretty hard with the nerf bat - but I still find they're a lot of fun to play and a good way to make people vary from their plans..(my prophet did what#??!!!!).

So LA-R'yleh and a quick exit most likely = )

[chrispedersen]

hey also AoE

There is a milkshake game on Llama server - but its using albathia map.

Is that us or a different game?

[AreaOfEffect]

Yes it is. You'll note that in one of my updates said I put up the game page and used another map as a place holder since I only wanted to upload the map once. I couldn't finish the map until I could properly set everybody's start location.

Wow, so its finally my turn to pick. I choose MA Ermor.

Now to finalize that map. Feel free to submit your pretenders, provided the llamaserver is accepting them.

P.S.: I still think your crazy chris. MA Ry'leh pretty much all the same bells and whistles, minus the management of a dominion trying to kill you just as much as it tries to kill everyone else. Oh well, I suppose being crazy comes with the territory.

[AreaOfEffect]

Alright, we are finally down to the last step. Everyone please submit your pretenders. Once everyone has done so and I confirm with llamabeast that its safe to start, I'll begin the game.

The game page for the llamaserver has been updated to use the MilkShake map. The map everyone has currently should work well enough as I'm sure only the llamaserver needs to actually know the start locations. Links to the needed mods can be found either there or at the original post of this thread.

The OP has been updated and everyone has been granted their mulligans. If you haven't already noticed, each players name in the list is linked. Clicking the link while logged onto the forums will result in a new private message page for the selected player. This is to help facilitate communication.

Good luck.

[chrispedersen]

Yes it is. You'll note that in one of my updates said I put up the game page and used another map as a place holder since I only wanted to upload the map once. I couldn't finish the map until I could properly set everybody's start location.

Wow, so its finally my turn to pick. I choose MA Ermor.

Now to finalize that map. Feel free to submit your pretenders, provided the llamaserver is accepting them.

P.S.: I still think your crazy chris. MA Ry'leh pretty much all the same bells and whistles, minus the management of a dominion trying to kill you just as much as it tries to kill everyone else. Oh well, I suppose being crazy comes with the territory.


Laughing, yeah I know. LA-R, really has been nerfed in the last patch - and I know MA-R is the smart choice. And I'll rue it, when I *lose*.... But until then it has such a different feel to it. Just be prepared to deal with EA-N when he eats me alive = ).

[AreaOfEffect]

I think it would be really awesome if we can get started by this weekends beginning. Yet we less then half the pretenders submitted.

[hEad]

Would anyone be put out if i changed my nation from MA Man to Tir Na n'Og? I am prepared to use my mulligan for it if required.

Thanks!

[chrispedersen]

Tactically, this is a huge disadvantage for me head.

However, in the interest of sportsmanship, its ok with me, if its okay with everyone else. And giving up the mulligan isn't required either.

[hEad]

Tactically, this is a huge disadvantage for me head.

However, in the interest of sportsmanship, its ok with me, if its okay with everyone else. And giving up the mulligan isn't required either.


Thanks CP! :up:

Sorry if this has stiffled your plans to destroy me.... I was sort of hoping we could be friends. ;)

Cool with everyone else?

[Incabulos]

Meh, it is ok with me I guess. I find any stealthy fairyfolk in my lands I will have to make a bee-line for you though :lol:

[chrispedersen]

I think by definition it will be the unstealthy ones you find = ).

[Falkor]

I have nothing against you changing nation hEad.

[Incabulos]

I have magic beer goggle of unstealthingnessingenginginging.

[chrispedersen]

Aren't those the same goggles that let you catch leprechauns and be irresistable to women?

[hEad]

Aren't those the same goggles that let you catch leprechauns and be irresistable to women?

No, they are the ones that make leprechauns 'look' like irresistable women!

And thanks all for being tolerent with my nation change, you are just a bunch of legends.

[Incabulos]

Bah sorry, I am going to have to resubmit a pretender. I forgot it was vanilla (all my games are CBM) sorry for the false start!

[chrispedersen]

Phew. I'm not the only one looking like an idiot =).

Thanks Incab = )

[AreaOfEffect]

Sorry about the duplicate turns. I tried to un-start the game and it for some reason started it again automatically.

To top it off, the admin password suddenly stopped working. I'll try to sort this out as soon as I can.

[hEad]

Is this awaiting a restart? I seem to have started in the wrong position 120 - infact, i have started right next door to Abysia. I should be at 182.

[AreaOfEffect]

My apologies, when you submitted a pretender of a different nation, I didn't get the chance to change and resubmit a new map. The llamaserver did apparently just drop my admin password from existence. I've got a new one and should be fixing this all real soon.

[llamabeast]

Ah! This is a multi-age game isn't it? There's a known bug with restarting multi-age games, I should have thought of that. I'll un-start it for you myself.

[llamabeast]

Okay, done. Hope that was helpful!

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm a little frustrated because we can't play this game until everyone resubmits pretenders. The llamaserver seems to glitch whenever I try to change any settings. Dropping passwords, pretenders, and even whole games.

The end result is that I had to make up an all new game page. Please resubmit your pretenders to 'MilkShake2'. The map has also been updated so that Ehad starts where he is suppose to.

[llamabeast]

If you would give me a chance to help, then I could do so. There is certainly no need to resubmit pretenders, they're all saved so you don't need to worry about that. I think most of the "glitching" was because we were both doing things at the same time. The remainder was the aforementioned bug with restarting multi-age games.

Give me a few moments, and I'll get it all fixed up.

[hEad]

Having personally not yet organised a game, I am always appreciative of the efforts made by others such as yourself to make these things happen. So relax AoE, you'll be kicking my a$$ in no time.

(Only saying this to cheer you up. I would of course prefer you kicked the butt of other more eviler and deserving nations....)

[llamabeast]

Okay, it's all fixed up. Sorry about the kerfuffle, I made some noob errors when trying to fix it earlier. It's just waiting for you to start it AOE.

[Incabulos]

Uploaded a fixed pretender.

[chrispedersen]

Please don't get frustrated AoE. Admining a game is like herding cats.

And I for one think you've set up a great game, and done a great job.

[AreaOfEffect]

I wasn't as frustrated as I sounded. I was only a little rushed because I needed to get to work and be worky. Thank you llamabeast for all the work. Now that everything is order (finally), I'll get this game started.

[Dragar]

Don’t sell yourself short, I’m sure we’ll see some sandgroper resilience from you :)

Having personally not yet organised a game, I am always appreciative of the efforts made by others such as yourself to make these things happen. So relax AoE, you'll be kicking my a$$ in no time.

(Only saying this to cheer you up. I would of course prefer you kicked the butt of other more eviler and deserving nations....)

[AreaOfEffect]

I just realized that since Ehad changed his pick, I'm now the only one representing the Middle-Age.

[chrispedersen]

Around the world, in the minds of the high and low alike - the following message plays....

"Seas for the sea peoples". The wheel of time has come indeed - and no longer will the seas accept those of air. For too long air breathers have stolen our lands, fished our waters, and fouled them with the effluents of their blood and war. They have desecrated our holy places, and sailed on the roof of our world.

But the wheel of time has come -

Seas for the seas peoples.
Land for the sons of land.

To those that respect these rights and the rights of the sea peoples everywhere.. we extend the tendril of friendship - and we are willing to to live in peace and in commerce.

But those that do not - we extend a different tendril - one of hunger. And it will not come alone - but it will come - by the hundreds. We who sleep in the depths will not rest until the seas once again breathe free..

[hEad]

Don’t sell yourself short, I’m sure we’ll see some sandgroper resilience from you :)


shhhhh.... i'm trying to play the 'underestimate me' card! :D

(quickly looks in deck to see if he actually has one there...)

[Starshine_Monarch]

Would someone mind delaying the turn for about 8-12 hours? I've been having a weird day today, and I just need some sleep before I do my turn.

[AreaOfEffect]

Postponed. Good night.

[hEad]

Hi guys,

well with easter coming up i need to let you all know that I am taking my self and the family away for a week. (much needed mini holiday...)

I'll be leaving good Friday 10th April and returning the following Friday, the 17th. Would it be possible to get a week break in the game turns or...?

[AreaOfEffect]

I don't suppose you could find someone to sub for you? If not, well then I'm fine with the delay. You have your current turn in so we'll at least get to the end of the first year.

[chrispedersen]

I'll probably be out from Good Friday till Easter - I'd like to suggest turn off scheduled turns but leaving quickhosting on.

As for the rest, head, I'd suggest a sub as well - it should only be a few turns.

[mikh4il]

I ve staled didnt I, gosh was sure i sent the turn yesterday night, can i use my mulligan?

[Incabulos]

unless staling had drastic consequences seems like a waste of a mulligan to me :)

I staled too :/ btw :D Thought I sent mine in too but checked my sent mail and must have brain farted this morning.

[chrispedersen]

Inc...! since you would get a free fix yourself your supposed to be *encouraging* him.

[Incabulos]

Yeah haha I thought of that but I am a boy scout at heart ;)

An evil boyscout that likes burning ants with a magnifying glass maybe; but still a boy scout.

[AreaOfEffect]

As per mikh4il's request, the game will be rolled back at the expense of his mulligan.

Feel free to resubmit your turns if you want to, however, it is not necessary if you submitted turn 11 the previous time. The llamaserver remembers your last moves and will use that turn file if hosting expires and you haven't resubmitted.

Since we're holding the game for eHad, this is actually good timing for a mulligan as it will not slow this game down any. Since eHad submitted his turn 11 the first time, he shouldn't have to worry about being away for of all this.

[hEad]

AoE,

I don't actually leave until good Friday the 10th April, returning the following week that of Friday, the 17th of April, so the game can continue for another week!

[AreaOfEffect]

Yeah, I misunderstood. Let the game proceed.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Dammit, looks like I forgot to send my turn in when I was done...

Then again, when you have 40+ EN blessed giants bearing down on your only fort, using the Mulligan really won't matter much. I'd love to continue, but I don't think I can get out of this. I simply can't kill enough of him before Utgard slaughters the rest of my army. I never thought I'd be outnumbered by Utgard of all people.

As my dying wish, I would have my Mulligan given to Gath, my only non-hostile neighbor, in hopes that I shall be avenged. (Though, feel free to do whatever with it.)

[chrispedersen]

Hey AoE...

The thumbnail with the starting locations - has it disappeared? Can you repost it? Just more convenient than looking at the mapfile for starting locations.

[AreaOfEffect]

Starshine, I suppose you could grant your mulligan to another player. I didn't really expect it to be used as a commodity though. Sorry you got pummeled so early. That's just the sort of thing that can happen though in this game.

Chris, I figured there was no use for it anymore. I also didn't really want to encourage people memorizing peoples caps. Oh well, just everyone be weary of terrible remote spells aimed at their home base.

[hEad]

I'm off early in the morning (10th) Back next friday (16th). I will endevour to get a turn or 2 in to keep things moving.

Hope you all get a few eggs each.

[chrispedersen]

I also am off friday, returning monday. Quickhosting on, schedule off correct?

[AreaOfEffect]

I'll set that up real soon. It seems that all turns have been in for a while now. The server hasn't updated for over an hour and a half. Its possible that our game is the source of the problem in this particular instance.

[mikh4il]

I give up, too hard for a noob like me,
well done dudes, good luck everyone

[AreaOfEffect]

It was an honor. Who would you like to attribute your demise to so that they can get a little dagger icon?

[mikh4il]

ermor and lanka

[Falkor]

Thanks for the game Mikhail.

[chrispedersen]

Rylleh is trading earth, water or nature gems for astral, in quantities of up to 100.

Perfect opportunity for you to break into one of these schools.

RSVP

[chrispedersen]

May I request an extension? I have (or will have shortly) the current turns in. However, I have been called out of town Wed/Thursday, and so would like a 36 hour extension, delaying any processing on thursday to Fri/sat?

[AreaOfEffect]

Understood. I'll extend the next turn as requested.

[chrispedersen]

Mulligan request: Well apparently the turn I sent in this morning did not get received. I am not home to review the turn, yet.

AoE, I'd like to inform that I may wish to use my mulligan. I will let you know in about 3 hours, when I can actually see the turn.

(Thanks)
R.

[chrispedersen]

Mulligan please.

[AreaOfEffect]

Understood. I'll rollback this instant. Will you still want the extension as well?

[chrispedersen]

I'll get this turn in tonight..
I won't be able to get to the next one until friday probably.

[AreaOfEffect]

Just as a reminder, please use the latest version of this turn. Using the original can and will cause glitches and weird behavior.

[Falkor]

I'd like to use my muligan, please.

[AreaOfEffect]

Wow, double mulligan. The anticipation of turn 29 rises even higher.

[chrispedersen]

Just as a reminder, please use the latest version of this turn. Using the original can and will cause glitches and weird behavior.

Huh? Usually the understanding is that you don't have to resubmit a turn on a roll back.

Also, I'm not sure I understand....


Turn 27
Turn 28 Ryall stales, asks for mulligan
Rolled back to 27.
Turn 28? (I never received this!)
Turn 27??

Is this where we are at now?

[AreaOfEffect]

We are back to turn 28 for a third time. If you staled the 3rd round of turn 27 the llamaserver will automatically use the turn file from a previous submission. So the moves you submitted after the first roll back should be in play.

What I was trying to say before is that you should use the latest file from the turn we rolled back from, not the turn we rolled back to.

If you you are not sure you have the latest turn file, try using the resend turn option.

[chrispedersen]

I'm out of town again Sunday - can we delay hosting till late sunday EST?

[chrispedersen]

I got a turn in, but I'd still like to ask the indulgence of the delay.

Best.
Chris

[AreaOfEffect]

Postponed 12 hours for your convenience.

[AreaOfEffect]

I pushed the hosting interval to 36 hours.

[Dragar]

Good job keeping the pace up for 30 turns everyone, it has really been fun

As an aside, what are everyone's thoughts on the mulligan system so far? Does it sway people from springing surprises because they don't want to waste it on a mulligan? It will be interesting to see by game's end how long people horde them for, and what they will be willing to let slide rather than use one up.

[chrispedersen]

Well, I love it. And kudos to AoE again.

I only used it to avoid a stale. But I've seen combat results for other people I really think it enhances a game.

a. It lets newb's learn from a mistake. If a newb sees the tactic and gets a do over - they can learn about the tactic and how to defeat it.

b. Really avoids unlucky events - barbarian walks up and kills your prentender with 216 pts of damage on a single hit.

Mulligans fix luck but not tactics. And it gives you a chance to recover from something you've never seen before.....

Now I just have to persuade people to do it 1/20 turns = ).

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm going to request a rollback upon my own behalf.

[Dragar]

Come on, wasn't that bad!

[AreaOfEffect]

Its not about losses, its about positioning.

[chrispedersen]

Quite frustrating. I have a sent mail confirmation llamaserver received the turn at 5:20 this morning but the *old* turn got processed.

:bleh:

Don't necessarily want to do anything about it but gripe, kvatch, moan, grumble. Bleh.

[Dragar]

I may need a delay later this week. I am going in for corrective eye surgery (lasik) on Thursday, and am not sure how long until I'm seeing well enough to play. My guess is two days.

I'll play every turn I have available Thursday morning my time (late wed night US), which means nothing will be due for at least a day, but may not be able to play turns then, and even if I can probably shouldn't be staring at a screen.

So, if we can either put a delay in then, or if the admin can keep an eye out and if I haven't got a turn in I'd really appreciate it. Obviously as soon as I'm ok I'll play turns and post.

If for whatever reason I'm not back longer than people are prepared to wait, I'll wear a stale or two - don't think I've vanished and waste time searching for an AI.

If I don't come back for ages please look up a good eye specialist for me because mine obviously hasn't done his job right!

Thanks,
Dragar

[AreaOfEffect]

Understood. Good luck.

[Dragar]

Oof that was a lot of undead.. I don't think I've ever used that many giants purely as a meat shield - wall of dumb flesh stumbling about in the dark ;)

[AreaOfEffect]

Yup, a lot of undead. A lot of replaceable undead.

[Dragar]

yep, if you can do it fast enough

not as replaceable mages though - shame all the grand thaums escaped

[AreaOfEffect]

Its okay. Though my back-up singers may be dead, the encore didn't require their talents anyhow.

[chrispedersen]

Something has happened to Incabulous. He seemed to be doing well against hinnom - however he has staled twice in all his games, this has affected his position in this game.

[Dragar]

Its okay. Though my back-up singers may be dead, the encore didn't require their talents anyhow.

So the encore is when we find out they've been miming all along?

On Incabulous, yeah he has vanished everywhere. If he was in a decent position we should look for a sub

[AreaOfEffect]

I generally don't like subs, but I'll see what I can do.

Edit: I sent out a request.

[hEad]

I wouldn't say his position is good. I have his capital camped and well, its just a matter of time really.

[AreaOfEffect]

I've put out another request through the sticky. If it goes unanswered I will postpone the turn just enough for me to have someone outside the game set Neifelheim to AI. I much prefer setting the nation to AI then let it stale yet again.

[chrispedersen]

I wouldn't say his position is good. I have his capital camped and well, its just a matter of time really.

EA -Niefle has more than 6 SC's, with attending groups of 4 popsicles.

Matter of time was really not factual, IMO. Had he not staled both of the last two turns he could easily have defeated the 2? units on the capital.

Rolling back 1, still gives him quite fair chances, I think.

Shrug - but its all up to whether a sub is found or not now!

[statttis]

Neifel is in a terrible position, fighting 3v1 and losing badly.

You could probably just set Neifel to AI. Until a couple turns ago I was freely taking his provinces, even took some next to the capital with no resistance. I'd be fighting for his capital right now, but some squids came along and distracted me :(

[hEad]

I wouldn't say his position is good. I have his capital camped and well, its just a matter of time really.

EA -Niefle has more than 6 SC's, with attending groups of 4 popsicles.

Matter of time was really not factual, IMO. Had he not staled both of the last two turns he could easily have defeated the 2? units on the capital.

Rolling back 1, still gives him quite fair chances, I think.

Shrug - but its all up to whether a sub is found or not now!

2 units on the capital? Glamour doesn't show on the map. Besides, he cant recruit any thing and there is no way the units he has around the capital will dislodge me. He has Marignon inbetween his capital and his other provinces to which, Hinnom has just camped 2 more of his Forts.

He has no chance.

[chrispedersen]

Good point on the glamour.

[AreaOfEffect]

I've turned off quickhost and extended the turn by a total of 12 hours. I bumped the thread requesting for a sub as well. I'll set the nation to AI and if we don't get any takers by the end of the hosting time, then the Giants will remain Computer controlled.

My apologies to chris if this ruins his game, but unfortunate things do happen that are out of everyone's control. If it makes you feel any better, I might be equally doomed as well, solidifying Utgard as the true super power of this game.

[chrispedersen]

No problems AoE!

As we say in Ryleh.. Afhon awei3nosidj aenoiasn ew fh!

[AreaOfEffect]

Good news. I asked Unoptimized to set Neifelhiem to AI and he decided, after seeing the turn, that he wouldn't mind submitting an actual turn. So I guess we found our sub for now. Welcome to the game Unoptimized.

[AreaOfEffect]

Dragar submitted a Utgard turn post-Thursday. I assume the lasik surgery went better then expected?

[Dragar]

yep, seeing great within a day :) sorry forgot to post in this thread

[AreaOfEffect]

No problem Dragar. Just glad things went well for you.

My apologies but I have had a busy weekend and need a 6 hour delay for myself.

[chrispedersen]

R'yleh is looking to trade for astral or sell earth.

[Dragar]

Utgard will use its mulligan

[AreaOfEffect]

Really? :)

[Dragar]

had to give it a shot ;)

[Unoptimized]

I think the ice giants will use their mulligan as well. I hear the mythical land of turn prior had me with not being sieged everywhere ;).

[AreaOfEffect]

Interesting. It sounds as if we are rolling back to turn 35.

[Dragar]

we can roll back 2 turns? I suppose

[Dragar]

I just noticed the hosting time after the last rollback - needs to be pushed back, most people won't even be aware of the rollback by the time it hits. I'll barely be back from work

I'm guessing it didn't reset for some reason or other

[AreaOfEffect]

I fixed the hosting time issue.

Indeed, I never expected this case to occur. I obliged mostly because Unoptimized is new to our game and may be in a tough position. I feel it really hurts me a lot in my own war with you though.

[Dragar]

I'm getting fuzzy on turn memory.. does this bring us back to the turn before our really big battle, or the turn after? If the latter I can definitely understand your frustration, exactly the wrong timing for you.

What I am finding a bit difficult/random with the mulligan system, especially with 2 turn rollback, are all the bystanders that get affected with each mulligan. I use a mulligan because of a battle with you, and a bunch of other people can either gain or lose a lot. Momentum in a war gets destroyed and your opponent didn't pay anything for it. It also slows the game a lot for those in relatively stable times when a heap of mulligans get used in short order, as they have the past several turns here

[AreaOfEffect]

I understand. The good news is that we are fast running out of mulligans. We are also fortunate to have a game with a steady and fast pace. Most games I've played wouldn't be up to turn 35 at this point. Still, I think it best to avoid back-to-back mulligans from now on.

By the way, it is now the turn where we just concluded your successful attack. So yeah, I think the mulligan favors you.

[chrispedersen]

I am having a deuce of a time figuring out trades and things...
can we delay things maybe 6 more hours?

[AreaOfEffect]

Indeed. Personally I just dug up the 2h file from last time and modified it. If you can't do that and didn't mind the moves you made last time, you could just stale.

Edit: I updated the original post to reflect the recent usage of mulligans.

[Dragar]

Yes it certainly has been a quick game, it's been very enjoyable to date, even with the mulligans lately which, as you say, are close to running out. Mind you those remaining are concentrated in the south of the map, so they may all be used in a rapid flurry like ours were

I agree I've had the better of this extra mulligan in terms of our war, but I don't think it is pivotal at all, unless you have something elaborate cooked up that will be effected by any changes in this turn ;)

[AreaOfEffect]

Your right, not dramatically in your favor, just slightly. However, cooking is actually one of specialties. Lets see what I can whip up for you.

[AreaOfEffect]

I extended the turn by 12 hours. We were apparently almost at the t-minus 4 hour mark. The turn seemed rather short to me and I didn't receive the six hour warning. I feared others didn't get the warning either.

[chrispedersen]

I am completely mistified by a battle result.

I sent 400+ free spawn vs. marignons 30 or so royal guards and 100 crossbow.

I cast darkness and rain - the precision of the marignon crossbowmen was *4*. Range was 24 to the closest unit and 30+ on average.

I am used to seeing wide amounts of scatter. In this case you see essentially *no* scatter. In the first 5 volleys virtually every single crossbow hit. None are long. None are short.

Only *1* shot in 500 shots inflict damage on the marignon royal guard, screening despite the fact that many are slimed or paralyzed and fatigued.

Can anyone explain this?

Also, I've looked at the debug log. But it seems that debug logs do not include crossbow resolution, the result just appear to load in from an army trs file.

According to the deviation formula EVEERY missile shot should deviate (range is > 4/2 -2), and the deviation (at minimum) should be.. 24*1.25/4 = 8 squares.. or more usually 10 squares.

But it never happens. at the *thickest point* my troops were 8 ranks deep. If the computer aimed smack in the middle... he could splatter and hit 4 in either direction. But not 8, and not 10.

[chrispedersen]

May I have a 3 hour extension? Green Elf needs sleep badly!

[AreaOfEffect]

Done.

[hEad]

Would it be possible to look at moving to 48hr turns?

[AreaOfEffect]

Sure, we are in the 40s after all. Well done for keeping up the pace for this long everyone.

[hEad]

Sure, we are in the 40s after all. Well done for keeping up the pace for this long everyone.

Excellent service - Thanks! :)

[AreaOfEffect]

First, I'm moving and my new house may not have internet established for about a week. I'll beg, borrow, and steal as much as I can, but I may not be able to respond to requests as timely as I am normally able to.

Second, poor Utgard is on the retreat for now. Still far from over though and I'm anticipating some new tricks from this colossus of a nation. Still, I'll savor my more recent victories. Long live the empire.

[chrispedersen]

First, I'm moving and my new house may not have internet established for about a week. I'll beg, borrow, and steal as much as I can, but I may not be able to respond to requests as timely as I am normally able to.

Second, poor Utgard is on the retreat for now. Still far from over though and I'm anticipating some new tricks from this colossus of a nation. Still, I'll savor my more recent victories. Long live the empire.

Huh.

#1: doesn't that mean its time for a mulligan?

#2. News flash: you're dead. Long live the empire is probably an epithet where you're from.

[hEad]

Why don't we all take a week break then until your back in action?

[Dragar]

huh? mulligan? dead? no comprendi

First, I'm moving and my new house may not have internet established for about a week. I'll beg, borrow, and steal as much as I can, but I may not be able to respond to requests as timely as I am normally able to.

Second, poor Utgard is on the retreat for now. Still far from over though and I'm anticipating some new tricks from this colossus of a nation. Still, I'll savor my more recent victories. Long live the empire.

Huh.

#1: doesn't that mean its time for a mulligan?

#2. News flash: you're dead. Long live the empire is probably an epithet where you're from.

[chrispedersen]

jokes man... didn't we have like 3 mulligans with you guys going back and forth on big battles?

And.. he's ermor. long live the empire seems like a nonsequitur...

[AreaOfEffect]

Chris, the undead are both alive and dead, therefore I could still wish it long life in my opinion.

Ehad, as for a break, I'm not going to request one as I can always snag internet from the local cafe. (Laptops are convenient.) If you are requesting a delay, then you can request one. Though I may not be able to respond until about this time tomorrow.

[hEad]

nah, its all good. Moving house rates highly in the worst things to do stakes, so i thought a few days off wouldn't be a bad thing for you.

[AreaOfEffect]

Thanks for the consideration hEad.

[chrispedersen]

I am going to be out of the country from Friday noon till monday noon. May I have a postphonement during those times?

Tia

[AreaOfEffect]

Sure. Who is Tia?

[chrispedersen]

tia = Thanks in Advance = )

[hEad]

tia = Thanks in Advance = )

whoa... cute and presumptuous simultaneously!

nice one! :D

[chrispedersen]

Aww hell I staled???? What a disaster.....what a freakin disaster..... HOURS to do that turn..... Micromanagement from hell

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys,

That stale cost me a capital (and miscellaneous damage) I would have retained otherwise. So I'm going to go AI. Just advising, in case you want to find a sub.

Lotta fun, thanks AoE!

Best...

[AreaOfEffect]

Thanks for playing. Sorry things turned out to be so ill.

As I said from the beginning, I'm not going to get into the habit of finding subs for other players. I'll be content with your judgment.

[AreaOfEffect]

I got my internet this morning (finally). My dependability is back up to full.

[hEad]

Seeing as R'leyh had to go AI because of bad luck, i'm willing to donate my mulligan to get them back in the game (best to try and avoid AI nations). However, seeing as its now two turns ago, some other generous character will need to tip a mulligan in as well and every one must be ok with a two turn roll back.

What do you all think?

[AreaOfEffect]

Postponed 24 hours for the discussion of hEad's proposal.

[hEad]

C'est la vie! It would appear that luck has run out for the insane dwellers of the deep and their unfortunate leader. Silence appears to have condemned R'leyh to a mere foot note in the chronicles of our time.

[statttis]

I'd like to use my mulligan.

[AreaOfEffect]

Your request for a mulligan has been granted. The original post has been updated to reflect this.

[AreaOfEffect]

It was requested of me to change the e-mail warning to 12 hours instead of 6. I have complied with this request.

[statttis]

I won't have access to dominions for the next few days and would like to request a delay until monday evening.

[AreaOfEffect]

Game delayed 48 hours. That moves it to June 29th, Monday.

[viccio]

I use a Mulligan

[AreaOfEffect]

Understood. I have deducted one of your two mulligans.

[Dragar]

The long long war between Utgard and Ermor is finally over, as the last resistance from Ermor finally crumbles.

Well played AoE, I felt I had a much stronger position at the start and it took a long, long time to slowly win through, with some of the 3rd party mulligans going my way. You kept resistance up to the very end, even after the decisive battle it was painful.

Also, thanks to our neighbours for letting us fight it out all the way 1 on 1, it's rare that happens and it is so enjoyable.

[AreaOfEffect]

Indeed, you put up quite the fight. In the end I just wasn't strong enough.

[statttis]

Did anybody else get this message?

Hi. On trying to host MilkShake just now, Dominions crashed. This is not a LlamaServer issue, but rather Dominions itself crashed with a "Nagot gick fel" error.

These errors are normally caused by a (generally inexplicable) problem with one of the players' 2h files. Therefore the LlamaServer moved all your 2h files away before hosting again. This is why you will receive a new turn file in which you've staled.

There are two options from here. Either you can treat the stale turn as a random event and carry on with the game, or you can roll back the turn and try to host again. If you try the latter your game admin will have to do the rollback via the admin options on the LlamaServer website, and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.

I hope you manage to get the game back on course, whichever option you go for.

--llamabeast-------------------------------------

[viccio]

yes.


what we do?

[Falkor]

Yeah, llamaserver used its mulligan.
We need a rollback and forced hosting.

[Dragar]

yeah, i agree

[Falkor]

I sent a pm to AreaOfEffect.

[Falkor]

I submited the turn seeing almost all of the players did it. I still think we should roll back and host turn 71 again, but if we all play the turn I'll be ok with it.
Unfortunately, no sign from admin.

[Dragar]

i didn't do it, thought we were rolling back.. extremely unhappy with 2 stales

[Dragar]

is anyone else reading this thread?? going to message llama to see if he can pause the game till we sort out what's going on and get an admin sorted

Edit: his inbox is full, hopefully he clears it soon

[AreaOfEffect]

Sorry, been away for the last two days. I also didn't realize my inbox was that close to full. I'll see what I can do.

Edit: Alright, if I'm not mistaken the game has turned twice while in error. The request has been to roll back the game back to turn 71 (two rollbacks). Is this correct?

Edit: My inbox is cleared of all messages. That should solve the problem. That said, before I cleared it the forum said I had only used 167 of the 300 messages I was allowed. So I'm rather confused why it told you my box was full.

[Dragar]

My view is we need to rollback twice, yes.

[Falkor]

As stated above I'm for a rollback, too. If llamaserver stored 2h files for that turn we would not need to send new ones. Just forced hosting and we are in turn 72.

[AreaOfEffect]

Sorry, real life got in the way again. Shouldn't happen again. The roll backs are complete and you should be getting new turns soon.

[Dragar]

Thank AoE

Do you know if we need to resubmit out turns, or does llamaserver still have them?

[Dragar]

The dreaded astral corruption has been cast upon the world by the evil of Lanka in an early assault upon the might of Utgard (unless I have my turns wrong, with all the rollbacks anything is possible)

Nevertheless, the AC is a threat to the entire civilised world, and Utgard calls upon the free world to aid in shrugging this evil spell, either through Dispel or destruction of the Lankan empire until the caster is killed!

[statttis]

Yes, punish the evil empire of Lanka :p

[AreaOfEffect]

The llamaserver should have your turns still, but considering there was a problem I suggest you all resubmit your turns again.

In other news, to ensure a smoother running game, I've handed admin duties over to Falkor. I'm sure he'll be responsible with his duties. He also will hopefully keep me updated with changes needed to be made to the OP. Good luck to you all.

[Falkor]

I'll do my best. Thanks.

[Dragar]

With great reluctance the empire of Utgard will go AI. Following our long war with Ermor the assault of Lanka in conjunction with Marignons AC has overwhelmed the Utgardian forces, who were unprepared for such a war. I would normally fight it out to the last, however my time is currently sorely limited nad my actions are making little impression anyway.

This was a great concept and I enjoyed it, though sadly it was a very quiet, non-comunicative game, and losing Chris in the mid-game and having Tir go silent due to RL business detracted from it

Good luck to the rest, and hopefully someone can give lanka a bloody nose

Note I may yet play this last turn, then done

[Falkor]

Good game Dragar.

It's sad to see Tir Na n'Og turned AI. The nation was is good condition.

[Falkor]

24 hours dalay.
Granted myself and hoping to protect Gath from second stale in a row.

[Falkor]

Lanka cancels all peace treties. It's time for the last war.
Zew, fist of Veles


It seems we lost Gath. I don't plan to look for a sub. I will rather ask someone to turn it to AI. But, if you guys wish I will try to find someone. I just think it is time to finish this game.

[Falkor]

I will need more time to play the next turn so I changed hosting interval to 72h. I will change it back to 48h after the weekend.

[Falkor]

I set hosting interval back to 48h.

[statttis]

I'm ready to declare Falkor as the winner. I'm the only other one still playing... and I have 3 provinces.

[Falkor]

Thanks statttis. I see no point to play the game to the last soldier either. I will finish the game on llamaserver.

Many thanks to everyone playing the game.
Special thanks to AreaOfEffect for a very nice concept. I like the idea of chosing a nation and starting position.

[AreaOfEffect]

Congrats Falkor. Glad you all enjoyed the game.