Amusing trick.

[chrispedersen]

N/ NW casters, casting on the same turn: Swarm + mossbody.

Holy homing Bat grenades!

One square of dragon flies gets 10-20 prot. Die you dragon fly!
And yet - if it does AoE4 Dmg 1 AN.

[P3D]

One use for limited utility NW mages.
How can you make sure that the Mossbody would be cast before the swarm leaves?

[Meglobob]

Chris means using 2 mages together, any mages size 3 or lower could pull off this trick. NW mages are great btw. One of the best magic combinations in dominions. You would after make sure the swarm mage cast 1st in the same battleround, easy to do, make sure he is listed above the mossbody mage not below.

[llamabeast]

Why is NW great?

[Jazzepi]

I've always thought soul vortex was like, the defining spell for SC chassis<es> how do you pluralize chassis? :(

Jazzepi

[Gregstrom]

I try not to. Chasses, maybe?

[Ornedan]

Chassis.

Web dictionaries ftw.

[chrispedersen]

Soooo you're going to face a paralyze spamming foe.

And you have troops with an area attack - like abysia's heat radiance. How do you get them there?

Set all the troops to guard commander. Give the commander hi mr (and prot from heat obviously in this case).

The units will still follow the commander around, even paralyzed.

There are a variety of uses for this trick. Surprisingly it works with elephants too.

[llamabeast]

What? Are you saying paralyzed units can move when they're set to Guard Commander?

That sounds like a nasty bug if it's what you meant.

[Sombre]

I wonder what else that command allows them to ignore.

[Humakty]

I think it is useful to add that you have to use a commander with less HPs than the troops guarding him, or he'll get paralysed in the first place.

[Agema]

If your opponent has that many paralysers, your commander should be loaded with well over 20 MR to resist, or part of an army with lots of high HP distracters anyway.

[Jarkko]

I've been doing that guard trick as Sauromatia with Hydras (the Hydras *always* get targeted first by the 100 precission spells, like paralyze) guarding a commander. I have until now thought it works (paralyzed Hydras keep on moving) because Hydras regenerate, but I guess I've been all wrong about that presumption. 10 Hydras (I didn't say it was cheap...) guarding a poison resistant commander who walks forwards is *mean* vs anybody who is not 100% poison resistant, and the Hydras just keep popping out new heads... Add in a fear causing item to the commander, and watch in awe this multi-headed spawn of a juggernaut rolling on :p

[chrispedersen]

What? Are you saying paralyzed units can move when they're set to Guard Commander?

That sounds like a nasty bug if it's what you meant.

It is indeed what I mean.

[llamabeast]

Nasty bug!

[VedalkenBear]

I find it interesting that no one has reported it until now.

[Sombre]

Well it is extremely situational. How often do you get paralyze being cast against troops set on guard commander where the commander actually moves?

[Ironhawk]

Troops that get targetted before the leader, at any rate. Plus you actually have to notice. It does seem like a pretty far out edge case. However, knowing it now, its quite exploitable as chrisp says.

Definitely needs a fix.

[Executor]

There's a good bug with shadow seers and one with golems, however I refuse to tell them. :)

[Ironhawk]

You'd best tell them now, Executor. If someone finds out you are using them in MP you'll probably be kicked out of the game for cheating.

[Executor]

Cheating? Hey it's not my fault I there are those bugs.
But ask me nicely and I'll tell you... :)

[chrispedersen]

Well, I don't want to come down as hard as Ironhawk has - I'd like to hear what you have to say - but Iron is right - willful exploitation of a bug is grounds for getting booted. (See Sheep's guidelines etc.)

A classic example is the skratti bug - a skratti in its second form incurs no upkeep cost. Purposely keeping all your skrattis in their second form for the purposes of avoiding upkeep is a bug exploit.

Its a bannable because it seriously undermines play - just like hacking the turn files etc. Sharp play using your knowledge of the rules is acceptable -sharp play exploiting bugs in the game are not.

[llamabeast]

Please tell us Executor.

Or else, please tell me. :)

[Executor]

Well for record I never actually used them, although I was aware of them.
When you teleport shadow seer on top of someone they won't cast RoR and run back home, instead they'll just sit back and wait magic duel, there goes that Seraph...
And I remember seems somewhere that golems didn't cast RoR in assassination attempts.

[vfb]

That's just the 'refuses to use gems because the enemy is too weak' problem, isn't it? Or maybe the 'screw you, ruthless overlord, I'm casting Astral Shield instead' problem.

Don't you get the same behavior if a Rishi/Druid/whatever teleports in?

[fungalreason]

It would be nice if there were flags of some sort you toggle for each mage for "Never override my scripts" or "Always use gems".

[Executor]

That's just the 'refuses to use gems because the enemy is too weak' problem, isn't it?

And a mighty problem it is when you lose a Seraph with 150 gems of equipment to 180 gold shadow seer.
But I'm not sure if it's a "too week enemy problem", I know infernal disease is a good way to use up gems on some commanders since they do cast scripted orders, like rain of stones or whatever.
That can come in handy very much.

[VedalkenBear]

CP: While I'm not saying I would abuse the Skratti 'bug', doesn't the Skratti lose some magic skills while in its alternate forms?

[vfb]

That's just the 'refuses to use gems because the enemy is too weak' problem, isn't it?

And a mighty problem it is when you lose a Seraph with 150 gems of equipment to 180 gold shadow seer.
But I'm not sure if it's a "too week enemy problem", I know infernal disease is a good way to use up gems on some commanders since they do cast scripted orders, like rain of stones or whatever.
That can come in handy very much.

Well, then it's your fault for not wishing for a Chayot instead. :)

Also, I think I had a single shadow seer trigger gem usage by an entire army when he was caught by patrollers, so you're probably right about which problem caused your Seraph not to return (was it your Seraph?). The easy way to find out why he didn't cast Returning is to look at the debug log.

[Executor]

Yeah, -2 research point for no upkeep, I'm not sure it's worth it.

[Dragar]

Yeah, I don't think I'd have a researching skratti in werewolf form. And if not researching or site searching or using them as spellcasting combatants I would normally keep them in werewolf form anyway

[VedalkenBear]

Executor: My point is that there _is_ a cost involved. 250g/0g upkeep for a 6-point researcher is still worse than 150gp/10gp upkeep 6-point researcher for 10 turns. 20 turns if the 150gp mage is sacred.

Also, IIRC, it's -2 rp 50% of the time, -3 rp the other 50%.

And that's not looking at the capital cost.

Is it balanced? Probably not. But you can at least argue the point. :p

[cleveland]

Lifelong protection + (Mossbody)(Mossbody)etc...
;)

[Arralen]

Set all the troops to guard commander. Give the commander hi mr (and prot from heat obviously in this case).
The units will still follow the commander around, even paralyzed.
There are a variety of uses for this trick. Surprisingly it works with elephants too.

Do you have a savegame available?
I tested with MA Arco 'phants and Illithids, and the 'phants got paralayzed and didn't move when their mounted commander did "hold, hold, attack rearmost".

[chrispedersen]

I'll see if I can dig up the turn I sent to illwinter.