Magellan: All-EA Nations CBM game, 3D spherical map, Running

[cleveland]

Setup: Early Age, all nations, Llamaserver PBEM

Game settings: Default for EA, except for Renaming On, Hall of Fame=15, and Difficult Research

Mods: CBM 1.41 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39679) and Standards & Streamers (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989) (available at these links)

Victory: "There can only be one." - Dominions 3 Manual, back cover

Diplomacy: "All's fair in love and war." - some creepy rapist
[Note to new players: this means that Non-Aggression Pacts (NAPs), which are very common in MP games, may be broken without affecting a player's out-of-game reputation. In other words, if your pretender is a lying backstabber, feel free to lie and backstab; nobody will hold it agaist you in other MP games. Though the players in this game may think twice about dealing with your underhanded pretender. Also, think carefully before entering into any NAP/alliance; they tend to benefit strong nations more than weak nations.]

Map: PlanetRorschach v4, a 375 province 3D spherical map I made. Details here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42474).

Hosting:
A modified version of a hosting scheme I proposed in this post (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=652405&postcount=25). Key points:
- In general, the game will run on a 27hr quickhost.
- The game will change to a 51hr quickhost only when a majority of players vote to do so. Same goes for 75hr, etc.
- During major "traveling" holidays, when most go to visit with family, hosting will be postponed during the travel period, and quickhost will be turned off.
- Reasonable extensions will be granted upon request with sufficient notice.
- When you feel the game timer should be permanently extended, post a notice in this thread. If another player "seconds" your motion, a vote will be held. The current turn timer will be immediately extended by 24hrs (to prevent turn-specific influence), and the admin will send an email to all players announcing the vote. All active players will then vote to either (A) Permanently extend the game timer, (B) Keep the game timer as-is, or (C) Abstain. Quorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum) shall be 75% of ACTIVE players. Majority vote wins. Should a vote fail, no further vote shall be held for 3 turns.

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Game Status: Running on 27hr Quickhost

Llamaserver status link (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Magellan)

Upcoming Game Delays: none

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Roster:

Abysia - Dragar
Agartha - Bluff
Arcoscephale - GrudgeBringer
Atlantis - Isokron
Caelum - cleveland
C'tis - Fakeymcfake
Ermor - Revolution
Fomoria - fungalreason
Helheim - Aethyr
Hinnom - KIM
Kailasa - Hadrian_II
Lanka - Juffos
Marverni - Starshine_Monarch
Mictlan - Quitti
Niefelheim - Alpine Joe
Oceania - stattis
Pangaea - Jarkko
R'lyeh - Zapmeister
Sauromatia - Incabulos
T'ien Ch'i - chrispedersen
Tir na n'Og - hEad
Ulm - Ossa
Vanheim - otthegreat
Yomi - Lavaere

[GrudgeBringer]

I'll take EA Arco

[Alpine Joe]

I would like in on this as Niefelheim. I am pretty new so it seems like a good fit.

[Dragar]

Abysia please

[Incabulos]

Sauromatia Please

[hEad]

Marverni thanks.

[Juffos]

I would like to try Lanka.

[Quitti]

I'd like to take Mictlan (BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD)

[Zapmeister]

Hinnom please

[Jarkko]

Pangaea please :)

[Hadrian_II]

Kailasa please

[hEad]

eHad?

thats one hell of a typo! :)

[cleveland]

:D It was early and I was tired.

[Zapmeister]

Gak! - I've just read the Baalz guide on Hinnom and decided they're way too overpowered for my liking (read: way too embarrassing if I do badly).

Cleveland, please withdraw my signup.

[Ossa]

I'd like to go with Ulm.

[fungalreason]

I'll take Fomoria

[hEad]

I've changed my mind - could i have Tir na n'Og instead please.

[Starshine_Monarch]

I've changed my mind - could i have Tir na n'Og instead please.

Assuming cleveland allows this, I'll happily take Marverni from you.

[GrudgeBringer]

Just a thought....Do we want to limit Hinnom to a newer player rather than a vet?

Just a thought, its your game and it looks like FUN!!!!

Heck, lets make it double difficult research...that should put a crimp in the ol bazooo.:eek:

[Lavaere]

I'm in on this game if as Yomi

[Isokron]

I would like Atlantis

[otthegreat]

Vanheim please.

[cleveland]

eHad - swap made!

Starshine_Monarch - Marveni reassigned!

Zapmeister - Hinnom dropped! Would you like to choose another? Perhaps a nice, pre-zombified Ermor?

GrudgeBringer - I'd love it if a newer player picked Hinnom, as they are quite tough. But I don't believe in restricting nations; if a powerhouse player wants to choose Hinnom, he's welcome to...under advisement that I will certainly be at war with him from Turn 1! These things have a way of balancing themselves out in that regard. RE Research: Setting the research to Difficult is alread going to limit the number of players that join, simply because folks like magic. I personally prefer Very Difficult research, but this was a concession to inclusiveness. But I think it's gonna be fun too. :beer:

[Aethyr]

I've no experience with CB; might as well try it out.

Helheim please

[statttis]

Oceania

[Fakeymcfake]

I'll take C'tis, also yay computer is fixed.

[Revolution]

Sounds like it could be a fun game


Ermor please

[cleveland]

3.23 is released! And we already have a staggering 20 players committed to the game after just 2 days of signups. Based on the criteria in my original post, we'll start this weekend. Details to follow, but in the mean time, design your pretenders.

Also, any cleaver names for the game? I was thinking "Aardvark" because it'll be close to the top of the list of llamaserver games...

Though I expect a surge of MP interest due to 3.23, please start pestering your friends & foes to fill the last 4 open slots. [I'm personally quite surprised that Hinnom is still open...nobody want's to be the big bad wolf?]

[chrispedersen]

Tien

[KIM]

Hinnom, please.:angel

[Zapmeister]

Well, may I have R'lyeh and may my friend James (who is waiting for his account activation to come through) have Agartha please?

[GrudgeBringer]

I have a question, I have played 5 pratice starts and have ended up in the same starting place 4 out of 5 ( not a bad place to start either).

I also had the same meighbors most of the time...

My question is are these preset starting locations due to Nation or set Random starting locations and this was just an abberation?

[cleveland]

Z ... Sure thing. So that means I'm caelum and the game is closed. Will update op tonight as I'm at the salt mines on crackberry

Gb... Wired. Start locations are strictly random. But I know some start with special conditions. Like la atlantis on the coast. Not sure about ea arco though.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Can I make a humble request that we use the Streamers and Standards mod for this game? It won't affect gameplay at all, I just like the look of the flags better.

[Cidi]

If it´s possible I would like to play with Agartha

[GrudgeBringer]

what is the official name of the game for Pretender Design?

[cleveland]

And I'm back. Long day topped off nicely with a few St. Paddy's day Guinnesses.

Cidi - Are you James, by chance? The one that Zapmeister foretold would lead the Agarthans? If so, welcome aboard.

(er, if not, I'm afraid you're slightly out of luck thanks to Zapmeister's call bet. BUT, if you're interested, you're welcome to be 1st alternate, wherein you have dibs on any nation that's a no-show on the deadline. Not such a bad deal, actually...even if everyone's 99% committed to this game, there's still only a ~79% chance that everyone shows up...)

GrudgeBringer - Hmmmm. I expected to have gotten a couple of responses to my call for A Cleaver Title by now. As Aardvark is most certainly not cleaver. My semi-sober brain is urging me to consider the title "Janus" in honor of the roman god whose 2 faces pointed in opposite directions, much like our map. Do you like it?
:)

Oh, and Starshine_Monarch - Sure. Sounds good.

[Dragar]

How about Magellan, in honour of the first global circumnavigation? The winner of this game will prove that the Dominions world is a sphere!

[cleveland]

How about Magellan, in honour of the first global circumnavigation? The winner of this game will prove that the Dominions world is a sphere!

Brilliant! I think we have a winner!

[GrudgeBringer]

Sounds like a winner to me!!!!!!!!!!!! (Ya know he died tho before he got back home:eek:) Hope thats not a baaaaad omen for the person who names the game...:p

[Bluff]

Hi cleveland and peoples :)

Just letting you know i'm Zapmeister's friend playing Agatha and have had my account activated.

Looking forward to this game!

[Jarkko]

if everyone's 99% committed to this game, there's still only a ~79% chance that everyone shows up
Oooo, nice that there people around who like to play with probabilities, and *know* how they are calculated :)

[chrispedersen]

if everyone's 99% committed to this game, there's still only a ~79% chance that everyone shows up
Oooo, nice that there people around who like to play with probabilities, and *know* how they are calculated :)

Sure, 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Dragar]

and 68% of people believe them

[Jarkko]

And then there are *lots* of people who do not understand probabilities, chance or statistics at all :D Statistics are one thing, probabilities are another thing, and it looks like at least Dragar and chrispedersen have some issues understanding the difference ;) You might want to pick up your maths books again :angel

*If* (notice the word if, it is there for a reason :) ) something would be presumed to have a 99% chance to happen, then there is 21.4% (ie 1-(.99^24)x100%) chance that at least one in twenty-four would fail. Statistics could then be used afterwards to prove the assumption to be correct or false (within the limits of statistical means, of course :) ).

[Starshine_Monarch]

... Or they could just be trying to make a joke. I think you need to ease up on them about 80% more. I don't know if you're a math teacher or not but this is a *game*. You may as well leave your textbooks in the classroom for all the good they'll do you here.

No offense meant of course.

[cleveland]

Emperical evidence suggests that no statistically significant difference exists between my odds of winning here and my odds of winning in Atlantic City.

[Dragar]

While I have to admit that it is a while since I completed my finance and engineering studies, and haven't picked up a maths textbook in quite some years, I have undertaken a fair amount of risk analysis in the past few years, performing reliability and availability modelling for offshore gas facilities. While it is true that probability and statitics aren't the same thing, per se, they are very closely linked. The 79% chance is a probability*, and 80% of all statistics being made up says that there is an 80% chance that any average individual statistical measure has been made up. Very much the same thing

* there is a large and one would think inherently false assumption in the derivation of there being a 79% chance of someone not showing up - it assumes the actions of all participants are independent, whereas with such a group of people in a community this small and friendly that is very unlikely to be the case - surely if I hadn't submitted a rpetender near closing I would be reminded/encouraged/coerced by a player in this game I am on friendly terms or in another game with?

[GrudgeBringer]

Dang all that stuff....

All I need to know is its 220 to 1 that you will get Pocket Aces Preflop on a ten person table.

Or that to Flop a set three of a kind with a poket pair in your hand) is aprox 7 to 1 agianst you.

that kind of stuff....:p

[Incabulos]

I work for a slot machine manufacturer. It is the general lack of understanding of probability, randomness, clustering and volatility that makes casinos possible(and rich).

One of my favourite probabilities is how few people there need to be in a room to make the likliehood of two people sharing a birthday highly probable.

[Jarkko]

Heh, this is getting funyn :) Always interesting how people fail to understand basic chance calculation :) Just for the record, I am not a mathematician, I am a pharmacist, but that hasn't stopped me from being able to figure out how to calculate probabilities; probabilities are after all quite simple if you think about for more than three seconds :)

... Or they could just be trying to make a joke. I think you need to ease up on them about 80% more. I don't know if you're a math teacher or not but this is a *game*. You may as well leave your textbooks in the classroom for all the good they'll do you here.

No offense meant of course.

Heh mate :) It never did cross your mind that my above post per chance (sic) was a joke? All those smilies might have been a give away, you know ;) Perhaps *you* should lighten up a bit, and not believe everybody are dead serious all the time; it is after all about a *game* :) Still, when people talk about bananas and somebody walks in and trumps the discussion with "But apples are always red!", it does leave one a bit baffled.

No offense meant, of course :)

there is a large and one would think inherently false assumption in the derivation of there being a 79% chance of someone not showing up - it assumes the actions of all participants are independent
The joke here is that nobody claimed a 79% chance of *somebody* not showing up. You *are* actually missing the point, are you not? :)

The point, I believe, was that it is practically 99% certain each individual will show up. You know, one might get run over by a car, the computer might fry, etc. Nobody can be 100% sure they will even wake up tomorrow. The ~79% chance thus derivated has no hard evidence behind it, but it is based on the fact that nothing is certain in life; lets give the unforseen a 1% chance. As a matter of fact, in human sciences it is customary to give that 1% chance for unforeseen phukk-ups per individual, because life has proven it *is* true: There is always about 1% chance something phukks up in an unforeseen way when you are dealing with humans :)

Thus the derived 21% (which I still think is a very clever gig from Cleveland, my hat is off in respect!) chance is not the chance that *one* player fails to appear (as you seem to be believe), it is the chance that one *or more* players wouldn't make it. It would be very bold indeed to assume people who sign up to not make it in 79% of the cases; in fact, if that was true, basically no MP games ever would launch :eek:


It would be interesting to calculate the chance for one or more people failing to comprehend this post and getting angry. But given human nature, it is practically guaranteed somebody will not understand and get angry ;) :p I believe I have now pissed off enough people (always a smart move to piss off people right before you start a game where diplomatic skills are needed... :doh:).


To Incabulous: If you want a better than 50% chance the answer is 23 :)

[Starshine_Monarch]

... Or they could just be trying to make a joke. I think you need to ease up on them about 80% more. I don't know if you're a math teacher or not but this is a *game*. You may as well leave your textbooks in the classroom for all the good they'll do you here.

No offense meant of course.

Heh mate :) It never did cross your mind that my above post per chance (sic) was a joke? All those smilies might have been a give away, you know ;) Perhaps *you* should lighten up a bit, and not believe everybody are dead serious all the time; it is after all about a *game* :) Still, when people talk about bananas and somebody walks in and trumps the discussion with "But apples are always red!", it does leave one a bit baffled.

No offense meant, of course :)

Never once did cross my mind. Dang, now I feel like an idiot. To me it just sounded like you were making fun of them.

[Lavaere]

If we have a couple days to post pretenders, then were the game at. Because I ain't seeing no 'Magellan'

[chrispedersen]

Pretender all set and ready to go..just need a place to send it too.

[cleveland]

Right. I'm home now, haven't yet gotten around to uploading everything to llamaserver. I have a conference call in a few hours that I have to prepare for...I'll set it up during the con call. It's not like anything will actually be accomplished during the con call, whose sole purpose is to ensure all members have prepared for the con call, and are sober enough to operate a telephone. After that, you're free to zone out. :D

[cleveland]

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Magellan

:up:

So if you're new to llamaserver, have no fear, it's very simple to join the game. First, install the 2 mods linked through the above link (i.e. CBM 1.41 and Standards & Streamers). Then activate them. Then design your pretender using the Dom3 pretender creation tool. Then follow llamaserver's FAQs:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160

[GrudgeBringer]

I guess we now need to Re-Patch to 3.23b before we start.

They said it was on the main Dom page but I didn't see it, if we could get someone to put a link in here it would surely speed up the start and cut down on the confusion.:confused:

[fungalreason]

Yeah it's on this page in the lower right: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/DOM3/DOM3_page.html

[cleveland]

2 announcements:

1) Pretenders are due in around 8 hours, so make sure you get them in!

2) House Rule: No Trans-Continental sailing is allowed across province #215 (aka "The Maelstrom")

A last-minute announcement, I know, but I think it's necessary to avoid a potentially unfair situation...Long story short, if a sailing nation starts adjacent to that province, they'll have sailing access directly into another player's capital. By forbidding trans-continental (i.e. from one continent to the other), this problem is avoided. Flavor: a massive maelstrom perpetually swirls at the center of this province; no sane sailor would dare try to cross it. Any Questions?

[cleveland]

So pretenders were due 3hrs ago, and 3 players haven't yet submitted.

But it turns out to be a blessing in disguise. This will give me a chance to alter to map to eliminate the unsightly house rule I had to announce last night.

I've sent PMs to the 3 players asking if they still intend to play. Hopefully they won't all submit before I finish modding the map!

[Aethyr]

Clevland, will we need to dowload the map again once you've finished with the changes?

[cleveland]

Unfortunately Yes. But I've finished with the RGB file modifications, I'll post it here now.

It's big, but even with a 1 baud modem you'll probably get it before I finish with the .map file (all the neighbors & terraintypes need to be adjusted...) :)

Note that you won't be able to view it in Dominions until I finish the .map. But you can see it in an RGB viewer (like GIMP). The only change is that I'm splitting province #215 into 2 seperate provinces.

The real problem was that - thanks to my requirement that all start locations have at least 6 same-landtype neighbors - there are only 2 valid coastal start locations on Planet Rorschach. And thanks to it's unique geography, those starts are seperated by a single sea province. In other words, sailing nations that automatically start on coasts - like Formoria - will have turn 1 access to another player's capital. Decidedly Un-Fair. It's a subtle problem, but one that could make the game quite Un-Fun for one of our players.

It'll take me a few hours to fix, but anything worth doing is worth doing right. :up:

[GrudgeBringer]

Its 12:30 PM CST (USA) amd I have a Rigby Game to play....

Won't be home until.....errrrrrr, the beer runs out after the game.

So I take it that link is to the new map and I need to D/l it befroe I try and play first turn but my pretender is fine.

I just delete ALL old map files and add the new ones, correct?

If I don't see a response when I get home I will do just that.

(response would be better as I have no idea how many kegs they will have):eek:

Cheers:D

[GrudgeBringer]

Make that read Rugby (in case my oversea brothers think we have REALLY tainted the game!!):p

[cleveland]

All - Alright! Modifications complete! That was a pain, but I'm very pleased with the final product and think we'll have a great game ahead of us. So without further ado...

GAME ON!

GB - It's not necessary to delete the old files, though they are obsolete now...but yes, you must download the RGB image I just posted and place it in your maps folder.

...yo ho, yo ho... ;)

[cleveland]

http://blog.stevienova.com/wp-content/uploads/LiveWriter/ClassicTechnicalDifficultiesImage_1388B/9f042.jpg

I instructed Llamaserver to start the game...but clearly that hasn't happened. PMing llamabeast to get this sorted out...

[cleveland]

:doh:

Figured out the problem...totally my fault, llamabeast/server is completely innocent!

Basically, the very last thing I did before uploading the file to llamaserver was overwrite it with an earlier incomplete version. Killing the game during startup.

I've PM'ed llamabeast, hopefully it's just a quick .map file swap and we'll be up and running. Worst case scenario: we'll all need to re-upload our pretenders.

Terribly sorry everyone. How embarrassing...

[Jarkko]

So we don't need a new .map file now? I have to admit I am a total idiot regarding Dom maps (them *too*), but shouldn't there be a .map file now that points to the PlanetRorschach_V4.rgb instead of PlanetRorschach.rgb ? Or are we meant to rename that V4 rgb to something else? Or have I once again totally missed the point?

[cleveland]

Yeah it wasn't clear to me at first either. The way it works:

The HOST (llamaserver, in this case) needs both the IMAGE and MAP files.

The PLAYERS (us) need only the IMAGE file.

In this case, the IMAGE is called PlanetRorschach_V4.rgb, which is different from the original IMAGE, called PlanetRorschach.rgb.

So as long as you have PlanetRorschach_V4.rgb, you're good to go for this game.

However, if you were to create a seperate game (like a practice game against the AI), you become the HOST, and therefore need both the IMAGE and MAP files. Both of these files can be downloaded from the PlanetRorschach thread in the Maps subforum (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42474).

--------

Our current situation is due to a mistake in the MAP file. The IMAGE file is completely unchanged from what I posted previously (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=681467&postcount=62), so again, as long as you have PlanetRorschach_V4.rgb you're all set.

Again, sorry about the oh-**** back there, it was really a stupid mistake. Never keep 2 copies of the same file open at the same time!!!!!

[llamabeast]

Fixy fixy!

You should all have just got Turn 1, hopefully.

[chrispedersen]

I got the turn, but it is using the older version of my pretender. I had really hoped to use the newer version....

[GrudgeBringer]

If Chris got his Pretender in in time I think he should be able to use it.

If we are going to start over, lets do it now and live with any other problems that come along.

[cleveland]

I agree.

Thanks to llamabeast's ingenuity, it's very simple to take the game back to pre-start conditions...i.e. we won't have to resend pretenders.

Chris: please notify us when you receive confirmation that you're proper pretender is received, we will restart immediately thereafter.

Again, please accept my apologies for all this nonsense. I'll get it right next time. :)

[Jarkko]

Just to be certain (sorry, haven't had my morning coffee yet, so the old Brain Mk.I is not yet fully rebooted), the turn we recieved is not the turn we are supposed to take? We wait for chrispedersen to confirm his correct pretender is uploaded, and then the game launches from start again, correct?

[GrudgeBringer]

I asked the same quedtion and Cleveland told me the answer was YES.

But it will be a complete restart, new positions (RE-Ramdomized) ect. In effect a brand new game but we just don't have time invested in it.

For me its good for one reason and bad for another so its a wash.:up:

[Incabulos]

I get an awesome start and of course it's a false start. :sick:

[cleveland]

In theory, they're all awesome. :D

[Jarkko]

In theory, they're all awesome. :D

I am happy for the restart. I wouldn't mind to have at least one forested province in the neighbourhood and not just hilly terrain; I mean, who ever heard of the Pan who sat on this unforested hill playing the flute??? How are the naked women supposed to... ummm... I mean, how does one engage in joyful revelry on sharp rocks and not soft moss?

[Incabulos]

In theory, they're all awesome. :D

8 provinces attached to your capital awesome? 2 forest and 6 standard. I have never gotten a start like that before, ever.:doh:
But such is the fickle finger of fate.

[cleveland]

"Game started! Players should receive their first turns in the next few minutes."

Good luck everyone! Sorry again about the 1 day delay...don't take it out on the birdmen!

[chrispedersen]

<--- Ducks his head in shame.

DOH!

I am a complete idiot. And y'all think the we should just play I'll oblige.

I emailed cleveland saying I had (re)sent the pretender in.
Unfortunately I got a message back saying "No pretender file attached." Idiocy.

And I can't tell from my starting scales *what* pretender I have.

So I will say again- DOH!!! And publicly acknowlege I am a complete idiot.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well, worse comes to worse aim to go out in a blaze of glory. Always good for amusement.

[cleveland]

I suppose it would be a terrible shame to have previously delayed the game for nothing.

We'll do one final restart...and chris, you're now obligated to put up a hell of a fight this game!

Everyone, thanks for your patience. I know it's frustrating, but it'll make for a much better game, and I know I'd certainly want such accommodation if it were me. You may all rest assured that there won't be any opportunities for rollbacks past the first turn.

Cheers,
cleveland

[Bluff]

Turn 1.. take 3.. and ACTION!

[Lavaere]

Boorrrrrrrringg

[GrudgeBringer]

So that NEW first turn I just got is valid???:confused:

I went from bad to medium start sooooo, guess this one should be GREAAAAAT!!!:p

[Fakeymcfake]

Hopefully third time's the charm.

[cleveland]

I think that was the fourth :embarrassed

[Jarkko]

So ummm... I sent in my turn today before getting to work, but if I understand right the game has once again restarted?

-The very confused Pan

[statttis]

Is this map supposed to wrap around from north to south? Right now it only wraps east to west. Also, not that I'm complaining, but my captial borders 10 provinces and that doesn't seem fair.

[Fakeymcfake]

We all border a lot more provinces than usual so we're all in the same boat. Also yes the map is only supposed to wrap around from the east to west.

[cleveland]

For the record, several of those 10 are other-landtype, so won't contribute to capital resources.

Indeed, everyone should be happy with their number of neighbors. The spread is from 6-8 same-land type neighbors, which imho is substantially more fair than 4-6.

If you're unsure if you've completed your proper turn, simply check our game status page on llamaserver.net. Ill post a direct link when I get home tonight.

[chrispedersen]

whats an other land type?
*interesting!*

[Fakeymcfake]

Water as opposed to actual land I assume.

[GrudgeBringer]

Abysia and Arco enter a Nap3 on turn 3

[Fakeymcfake]

Wow, that was quick.

[Hadrian_II]

Abysia and Arco enter a Nap3 on turn 3

did i miss somewhere an all naps have to be announced rule?

[cleveland]

Abysia and Arco enter a Nap3 on turn 3

Caelum declares war on EITHER Abysia OR Arco, whichever is slowest to conspire with me against the other.

---------------

H - Nope. There's absolutely no requirement to announce NAPs, or any diplomatic arrangement for that matter. Though, Declarations of War, when accompanied by taunts and demonetization, are strongly encouraged. :D

[Incabulos]

Abysia and Arco enter a Nap3 on turn 3

Caelum declares war on EITHER Abysia OR Arco, whichever is slowest to conspire with me against the other.

---------------

H - Nope. There's absolutely no requirement to announce NAPs, or any diplomatic arrangement for that matter. Though, Declarations of War, when accompanied by taunts and demonetization, are strongly encouraged. :D

I declare war on uh... Caelum if either Abysia or Arco needs an ally against the alliance against them.
(small print: unless this means Caelum actually attacks me in which case I will reveal that Caelum and I had a secret secret alliance (so secret that even Caelum didn't know about it) going which was used to draw you to a false front of war so that Caelum could gobble you up by surprise):angel

[GrudgeBringer]

Now we are twice as big, twice as bad, and have a Capital A in our names!!:p

[chrispedersen]

yeah.

tArget.

[GrudgeBringer]

May I ask for a delay this weekend (Friday 4/3 to Sunday 4/5).

I was supposed to go to Oklahoma to play Rugby last weekend but it snowed and we are traveling there this weekend.

If we could get a turn in thursday or EARLY Friday (before 9 AM Cst USA) I could complet it and we would only have to postpone one day.

Thank you...GrudgeBringer Arco

[cleveland]

Of course.

On Friday, hosting will be postponed until Sunday evening. Quickhost will still be on though, just in case.

[hEad]

Hi guys,

well with easter coming up i need to let you all know that I am taking my self and the family away for a week. (much needed mini holiday...)

I'll be leaving good Friday 10th April and returning the following Friday, the 17th. Would it be possible to get a week break in the game turns or...?

[Hadrian_II]

normally it is not very hard to get a temp sub while in early game

[hEad]

normally it is not very hard to get a temp sub while in early game

I've got a few games on at the moment so getting subs for them all may be a bit difficult. Could we then for that week go to 48hr turns and i'll try find a net connection for my laptop?

[Quitti]

I'll be going away for about a week also, starting from wednesday, but I'll be grabbing my laptop with me so I'll probably be able to do all my turns in time. At least I'll try.

[Zapmeister]

News from the Deep
Watchers of the score graphs cannot fail to have noticed the astonishing speed with which Atlantis has been overrun by Oceania's blessrush. In a difficult research game, it's the obvious way to go if you can and in the hands of a skilled exponent such as skitttis, its a deadly strategy.

Atlantis is gone and R'lyeh (me) has been given his eviction notice. The security of distance - being located at the opposite pole - was an illusion and Oceania is already at the door finding me, I confess, unprepared.

So this is a heads-up, a warning to all you air-breathers that Magellan is likely to soon be a one-water-nation game with a heckuva lot of water. If you also have sacred units blessed to to the eyeballs, now is probably the time to challenge Oceania's land holdings. His focus is still in the sea but, when the sea is secured, it may be too late.

[Fakeymcfake]

For some reason the game sent me turn 13 and it says it's still on 12. What's up with that?

[chrispedersen]

this has happened a couple of times to me. contact llama.

One incidence of this bug will reject any turns you submit...

[Fakeymcfake]

Wonderful... Cleaveland want to get on this or should I just bug Llama?

[Zapmeister]

It's happened in at least 3 other games as well, the llama knows about it, and he's promised to look at it in the morning (his time).

[Fakeymcfake]

Okay, can we get a delay of game then so I don't wind up with a stale turn, or are all the affected games delayed already?

[fungalreason]

It looks like it's fixed already

[cleveland]

Without lifting a finger, you fearless admin has the game back on track.

Thank Llama, everyone, for his continued attentive support to this and every llamaserver game. With your wallet (http://pledgie.com/campaigns/1716).

This is where I'd thank YOU, if you actually donated. Cheapskate. :D

Regardless, an Oceania bless-rush, huh? No equivalently blessed Fomorians wading into the water? I suppose it's up to the birdmen to stop the fishmen...if only Hinnom would stop eating my Eagle Kings...

[statttis]

My scouting forces haven't seen any serious resistance from R'lyeh and Atlantis will be eliminated soon. I welcome anybody with amphibious troops to come fight me, I'd hate to be stuck with the upkeep from my aquatic troops.

[KIM]

...if only Hinnom would stop eating my Eagle Kings...

Was an accident :angel, I like birds.

[Dragar]

Colonel Kim's famous 13 herbs and spices?

[Quitti]

I'll be leaving to Estonia today, I've submitted my turn but I'm not 100% sure if I can get my next one submitted in time, probably will. The worst case scenario is that my laptop blows up and I can't get any turns in for the next week, which I doubt.

[hEad]

I'm off early in the morning (10th) Back next friday (16th). I will endevour to get a turn or 2 in to keep things moving.

Hope you all get a few eggs each.

[chrispedersen]

I don't recall what we said for this game: I also am off for easter returning monday. Can we get schedule off and quick host on?

[cleveland]

With as many players as we have traveling this week, how's this sound: beginning next turn, the hosting deadline will be set to next Friday (4/16) with quickhost on. On 4/16, we'll resume the normal 27hr quickhost.

[GrudgeBringer]

Sounds Good...have a great holiday everyone!!!

[Quitti]

Sounds good to me :) I got my turns in in time and I have a stable connection here so I could keep on going with 24h hosting until I start travelling back to Finland (The trip takes about 19 hours for me).

[cleveland]

One player has PM'ed me a request to extend the game timer until Sunday, due to unforeseen circumstances. It will of course be accommodated.

Cheers,
cleveland

[GrudgeBringer]

Good with me..

[Hadrian_II]

One player has PM'ed me a request to extend the game timer until Sunday, due to unforeseen circumstances. It will of course be accommodated.

Cheers,
cleveland

So even when people have more than one week to get their turns in they will wait to the last day, to be surprised by unfereseen circumstances:rolleyes:

[Lavaere]

sorry, I had forgotten all about Magellan. I'll do my turn now but probably just to set it to AI

[chrispedersen]

LaVere are your circumstances that bad? Finding a sub might be better for the game...

[Lavaere]

I have only fort thats about to go, so AI.

I had thought the turn had already been sent in. Which was why I deleted the folder. But the reminder proved otherwise.

[Jarkko]

---
FNN (Forest News Network)
*BREAK THE NEWS*

Today a glorious battle at the capital of Pangaea was fought. The screaming maniacs of Sauromatia were utterly destroyed. Now with the Sauromatian false pretender dead and all Sauromatian armies destroyed, Pangaea will begin to reconquer its lands. All free peoples can now breath in relief!
---


Shish kebab those androphag archers are *mean*. Oh oh oh, and that Gorgon, she was one mean #%¤#"%&#*! Happily for me tough they are all now gone :) It is a time for a happy little dance. God bless the berserking minotaurs, it is absolutely fabulous they do not understand when all hope is lost :angel I feel so skilled now :D

[Juffos]

I request a 12 hour postpone to the hosting on behalf of Quitti, whose internet connection doesn't work.

[Incabulos]

The ghosts of Sauromatia shall watch as the armies of Pangaea and Abysia clash over the lands once held by the Gorgon Queen.


---
FNN (Forest News Network)
*BREAK THE NEWS*

Today a glorious battle at the capital of Pangaea was fought. The screaming maniacs of Sauromatia were utterly destroyed. Now with the Sauromatian false pretender dead and all Sauromatian armies destroyed, Pangaea will begin to reconquer its lands. All free peoples can now breath in relief!
---


Shish kebab those androphag archers are *mean*. Oh oh oh, and that Gorgon, she was one mean #%¤#"%&#*! Happily for me tough they are all now gone :) It is a time for a happy little dance. God bless the berserking minotaurs, it is absolutely fabulous they do not understand when all hope is lost :angel I feel so skilled now :D

[Quitti]

Well, it has not been a very lucky weekend for me. My computers gfx-card died on me first, and then my internet connection simply ceased to work (damn ISP messing up with something again).

But anyhow, I got my turn in.

[Jarkko]

The reconquest of Pangaean lands vs Sauromatia has begun in earnest. Sadly Sauromatia refused to bend over and fade away, but did put some serious fights. Happily tough there are always a couple raging berserks (gotta love those Sauromatian arrows, as they make centaurs and minoutaurs very very angry ;) ) on the Pangaen side who refuse to rout when rest of the army has already been running away for a good while :D

[GrudgeBringer]

And out of the blue Came the Stealth Armies of Vanheim to Rape, pillage, and Plunder Arco...

My Capitol is under siege and has damaged walls....this may be a short game for me as I don't think I cam stop the Cap from falling next turn.:(

[otthegreat]

I don't know about that, you have two sizeable armies closing in on me and the walls aren't down so I can't storm your fort yet. Its far from over.

[cleveland]

Caelum has taken a bite out of Hinnom!

Actually, it was unfortunately more of a nibble. Unless you want ol' Hinnom to fatten up on some plump Caelum turkeys, I advise an immediate attack. ;)

----------

Also, if you need an extension, PM me. I'm slammed in RL, rarely checking the forums these days (or getting turns in on time, apparently), but PMs come up immediately on my Crackberry.

Cheers,
cleveland

[Starshine_Monarch]

Marverni is willing to trade 15-25 Astral pearls for an equal amount of Air gems. Any who wish to trade must PM me on the forums.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Amendment to above post: The gem trade has been arranged with Fomoria.

[cleveland]

So after 20 turns, I have to ask: how's the map? Any suggestions/feedback? How about the game overall? Criticism welcome! (except from poor KIM, who I've ruthlessly attacked! :D )

[Jarkko]

Regarding the map: I do not find it ideal that some capitals start just one province apart from each other (like #345 and #372). Even tough the other is land and the other is water nations, it still is uncomfortable that the other one will constantly have a "hostile" province right next to their capital.

Other than that I feel the map feels just great :)

[Jarkko]

I have just been informed by my wife (altough she claims she told me weeks ago...) that I will be traveling May 1st - 3rd. I may or may not have access to the internet during this time. Is it possible to set hosting interwall to 48 hours during that time?

[Aethyr]

I think we should honor Jarkko's request. Further, by this time we may be at a point where it makes sense to go to a 48(or is it 51?) hosting permanently (until amended of course). Anyone else agree?

[Aethyr]

Regarding the map: I like it a great deal. The combination of 6-7 adjacent provices to the cap in combination with *neighbors* that are 3 provinces way make for some interesting dynamics.

[Quitti]

Well, I'm in the dead center, and while having lots of neighbors is great, it's the lack of any farmlands even near my start that I find a bit disturbing. There's not much income coming in from here, though being mictlan that isn't a huge issue in the long term...

Also, I'd like to move to 51h timer also sooner than later.

[cleveland]

Timer extention has been requested and seconded. Vote to follow. I'm traveling but will delay hosting and send admin message when I get to a proper comp. C

[chrispedersen]

Against

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm also against, I might think otherwise in a few turns though.

[GrudgeBringer]

If you don't do it now....When do you expect to do it.

I will also start traveling The middle of May on weekends (I play Rugby) and have no laptop.

I don't want to be asking for extensions every weekend or having to Stale.

So I guess my vote is yes.

[Starshine_Monarch]

I vote for as well. I'm willing and happy to accommodate for the people that need it.

[Zapmeister]

Against

[Aethyr]

To clarify, my observation was that Jarkko's request for extension should be granted and that we may want to make the extension permanent at THAT time. I'm OK wih the current hosting until then.

So, against.

[chrispedersen]

I'm all in favor of granting any requests for extension. We're only on turn 2x of what will likely be a 7x or 100x game. I'd just rather get to mid game 30ish or so before we increase the timer.

[Jarkko]

I am btw also against increasing the hosting schedule in general at this point, but wanted to bring up my timing problem next week properly in advance :) However, considering that in a week we are already are at 30+ turns, perhaps the situation is differen by then.


EDIT: I am also btw fine with no extension for me. I may be able to get hooked to the internet from somewhere, and at worst I'll stale one turn only.

[hEad]

hmm, plenty to do each turn already, so yes to 51hrs from me.

[fungalreason]

I'd rather have a faster schedule and grant any extensions needed. Against 48h for now.

[Dragar]

i prefer 27 hrs with the odd extension. This game is still early enough that turns shouldn't take too long

[GrudgeBringer]

YES, I'm going to be out of town regardless of what we decide on weekends.

If it gets too much I will just let the wolves gobble me up!!

[Revolution]

My turns are still going pretty quick! :D

oh wait...

:(

[statttis]

I'd prefer you just grant extensions as needed. It's only turn 22, the game will take forever if the timer is increased so early.

[Jarkko]

i prefer 27 hrs with the odd extension. This game is still early enough that turns shouldn't take too long

This is pretty much my opinion too :)

[Bluff]

B) Keep the timer at 27hr quickhost

Turns aren't taking that long yet

[Zapmeister]

The entire sea now belongs to Oceania.

[Fakeymcfake]

The entire sea now belongs to Oceania.

Last one into the pool is a rotten egg!

[cleveland]

No time for a formal count atm, but at first glance it looks like we don't have quorum. Regardless, Caelum formally requests an additional day for this turn, as we comically are traveling by air again today. c

[chrispedersen]

May I request an extension? I have (or will have shortly) the current turns in. However, I have been called out of town Wed/Thursday, and so would like a 36 hour extension, delaying any processing on thursday to Fri/sat?

[cleveland]

Of course.

Again, if you have any requests, a PM is the best way to reach me. For example, your request to help me against Hinnom :D

[Revolution]

Going AI, good job Agartha and C'tis

also,

Nice map cleveland

[fungalreason]

Let it be known that T'ien Chi is a NAP-breaker. The following PMs were sent no less than a turn ago.

http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tienchibreaksnap.jpg

We urge other nations bordering T'ien Chi to take notice and realize what agreements made with them are worth. Fomorians may only have one eye, but we saw that one coming a mile away. Fortunately, we made adequate preparations. Hopefully Chris has as well, because there won't be any mulligans in this one ;)

[Starshine_Monarch]

Let the same be said of the Pangaeans, who broke their pact with Marverni to invade my territory while my forces were otherwise occupied. A tempting proposition to be sure, but is shattering the bonds of trust with the nations of the world truly worth it?

[Jarkko]

To the noble Marverni. Pangaea did suggest a NAP and co-operation against some third part when you did move some 180 troops to my border. Marverni replied they are not there to attack Pans, but ignored the NAP offer or the suggestion about co-operation, and mentioned you had an on-going war with another nation and didn't want anybody interfering. I then communicated with this other nation, and they seemed to be slightly surpised to hear they are at war with Marverni.

When somebody moves lots of troops to my border and ignores discussions about NAP, do not seem to have any excuse for the massed force, and tries to pull an outright blatant lie, then I tend to get slightly worried. I can't help it, it is one of my many shortcomings :( Sadly, when I am worried, I send in the maenads. And I am not short of maenads.

Did I shatter the trust with the other nations? That may be so. However, I would be interested to know how they would have acted if all of the sudden Marverni moved massed forces to their un-guarded border, and Marverni then simply ignored pleas for a discussion on a NAP?

I don't know, all the mails going between Pan and Marverni might have been confusing somehow. But I got the impression Marverni has zero interest in any co-operation with Pan. If I got the wrong impression, then I am sorry. Please use more clear words in the future, I get easily confused by long words seemingly meaning nothing :confused:

[otthegreat]

Let all nations know, Vanheim claims all lands neighboring province 224 by right of conquest. All who infringe on these lands face the hostility of the Vans who have sacrificed much for them.

[Jarkko]

Let all nations know, Vanheim claims all lands neighboring province 224 by right of conquest. All who infringe on these lands face the hostility of the Vans who have sacrificed much for them.
In other news, Pangaea scouts have witnessed a few battles where Vanheim was present. The conclusion is this: Vanheim is by far the most dangerous nation Pangaea scouts have had the luck to witness in action. I do not know how Vanheim graphs looks so mediocore, but their actions are simply said superb.

[Jarkko]

Chris, your private message box is full. I will now attack the province I mentioned earlier, please PM what you feel would be adequate consequenses for this.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Requesting a 12-24 hour delay to plan my next move, assuming I have such a luxury at this point. It's getting rather late here and I tend to not think as clearly at this time. I'd rather send my turn when I'm more clear-headed and when not as pressed by the deadline.

[cleveland]

Requesting a 12-24 hour delay to plan my next move, assuming I have such a luxury at this point. It's getting rather late here and I tend to not think as clearly at this time. I'd rather send my turn when I'm more clear-headed and when not as pressed by the deadline.


Since a separate request was also made to extend the hosting interval this weekend, let's run on 51hr quickhost from now until Monday.

Cheers,
cleveland

[Starshine_Monarch]

Wow. So many brain farts this game. First I forgot to tell Jarrko I was fine with the NAP, next I got enemy armies on two fronts in practically the same turn. I'm not coming back from this. Anybody who wants a piece, come get it while it's fresh. I'm going AI. Good game people.

[Jarkko]

Chris, if you expect to recieve answers to your questions, you really really (and I mean *really*) should consider emptying your PM box a bit :)

[chrispedersen]

LOL
I empty it as fast as I can

[Fakeymcfake]

Hey, don't hate Chris cause he's popular, dude can't help it.

[chrispedersen]

I will pay a bounty of 300 gems to the first person to capture a Fomorian castle.

I will pay a bounty of 200 gems to the second person to capture a Formorian castle. It may be the same person (but wouldn't you hate it if it were? - sign up now to avoid that conundrum!)

You must immediately advertise herein your intent to do so.

May the race begin......

[Fakeymcfake]

Bold proposition, I'll personally think on it but promise nothing.

Edit: oh and I'm in the market for a water booster, PM with offers, will pay in gold, nature, death, astral, fire or earth.

[fungalreason]

Tien-Chi has already shown his true colors by breaking a NAP. Do you really want to put your trust in their vaporous promises? At the rate they are leaking gems, there's no way they'll make good on that offer.

Fomoria will counter with an offer it can actually keep. No harm will come to any who assist us in freeing the world from fear of their powerful, triple-blessed sacreds. Take what you will of their lands and harvest their gems for yourself. The giants have already seen indications that they currently control two very powerful magic sites. Don't let your neighbor beat you to the spoils!

[chrispedersen]

Certainly, I admit I broke the nap - not deliberately as you know. Say what you will to sway game opinion; but I do wish for purposes of honor you would inform what happened.

One of my groups (out of six or seven) moved to your territory. 223->169 vs 223 ->173.
I was trying to join two armies and missed. On finding my mistake, I paid you double the province income, emailed you, and moved every army away from my border.

I certainly accept that you elected to go to war. However, given that I have a reputation of never breaking a nap, and made every effort to correct it I do think its a bit of a stretch to call it a vaporous promise.

My gem income was 49 previously. 500 gems on turn 28 is therefore quite possible, and in fact I have them in hand already - as other people can attest. As for making good - the only real question will be whether they'll do it in time to get the reward. As for conquering my lands shouldn't the question be would they rather these lands were in Tien Chi's hands or the Giant Formorians? Its rather moot, as I doubt anyone will be able to beat *you* to them and even if so, can they beat your armies?

Your castles I know about are 169, 207(capital), and 175... Let the race begin!

In the event of my death, with no one capturing one of your castles, I will forward my gems to Jarko if he hasn't screwed me, or to Ctis/Mictlan (same conditions).

[Jarkko]

I will forward my gems to Jarko if he hasn't screwed me
Oh damn, there went my opportunustic plan... :angel

[fungalreason]

Fomorians know nothing of T'ien Chi intentions. All we can go by is your actions. And the very turn after you requested and extension to a NAP, 4 armies appeared at my borders. One of those armies actually attacked! I believe any sane person would have made the same conclusion I did. If you think a promise of ~40 gold 20 minutes before a turn hosts with no chance for me to recall any orders is every effort to correct your 'mistake', you're clueless.

Secondly, instead sucking it up and fighting a war that was sparked entirely by your own actions, you choose make a grandiose bounty post that, if paid, would clearly eliminate any chances you have for victory. That tells me two things: 1) you're weak, and thus I made the right decision and 2) you're vindictive... not someone I would want to continue to deal with in the future.

Fomoria won't stoop so low as to post locations of your castles and other strategic resources in the forums. Anyone interested may contact me privately, however.

[Fakeymcfake]

I will forward my gems to Jarko if he hasn't screwed me
Oh damn, there went my opportunustic plan... :angel

Hey, I can't screw him if I can't reach him, here's hoping for a wealth of gems.

[chrispedersen]

That tells me two things: 1) you're weak, and thus I made the right decision and 2) you're vindictive... not someone I would want to continue to deal with in the future.

Formoria,

When I requested the nap extension I told you I was involved in a fight with Marverni. Any nation is 'weak' when involved in a fight with another nation.

As for the tools of war - you use the tools you are given. If you are willing to forgo giants, I for one will be happy to forego gems.

As for massing on borders, a picture is a worth a thousand words. Here is a screenshot of my borders in spring, the turn after you agreed to NAP, and you found out I was involved in a fight with Marverni. My troops massed on my capital - yours moved to the border. I'm happy to provide others if you contend these are inaccurate.

Casual observers will also note that my gem totals show 509 gems on turn 24 - let alone the gems earned since then. I don't lie.

Finally, my fate was sealed when you took advantage of an opening and attacked; my gem bounty didn't seal my fate - so far no one has even stated their intention to claim it (as required). We'll give it a turn or two - my intent is to purchase allies while it might still matter.

[chrispedersen]

I bear no ill will towards Formoria and its king - this is the clash of nations, and in your shoes I might have tried the same thing. But - if you think I'm going to just rollover - thats not in the cards.

By-the-way: Anyone that takes one of the territories with Formorian troops marked on the map - I will offer 20 gems of the victor's choice, subject to availability, of course. A good way to break into a path you may have not have access to. PM quickly.. Fomorians are at the gate= ).

[chrispedersen]

This will be the last turn for anyone to announce they are going to go for the various bounties.

[fungalreason]

When I requested the nap extension I told you I was involved in a fight with Marverni.

Flat out lie; you said nothing of the sort. Feel free to post any evidence to the contrary.


As for massing on borders, a picture is a worth a thousand words. Here is a screenshot of my borders in spring, the turn after you agreed to NAP, and you found out I was involved in a fight with Marverni. My troops massed on my capital - yours moved to the border. I'm happy to provide others if you contend these are inaccurate.


There's a big difference between a raiding squad of blessed flyers and a few javelineers guarding a site searching mage. I'm sure the other players can decide on their own which should be feared more.

Furthermore NEVER did we trust your word and suspected it was all just a ploy to get Fomoria to lower it's guard. At that instant in time those squads were deployed to deter raiders in addition to site searching duty. It turns out we were right... T'ien Chi attacked the very next turn.


I don't lie.

See first statement.... not to mention the broken NAP.


Finally, my fate was sealed when you took advantage of an opening and attacked; my gem bounty didn't seal my fate - so far no one has even stated their intention to claim it (as required). We'll give it a turn or two - my intent is to purchase allies while it might still matter.

This is the biggest joke of it all. A triple-blessed T'ien Chi that doesn't even attempt to fight before threatening to throw gems at random, and airing dirty laundry. The only nation whose fate will be sealed is the poor sap that believes you will actually make good on your offer and send them 80% of your gems. No doubt the moment the two of you roll Fomoria, you'll simply turn on them and thank them in kind by conquering all their lands.

[chrispedersen]

By the way - I have to compliment you on your Tartarian Factory; with the number of faerie queens you've summoned you've either got it, or will soon have it, this turn or next.

Came as a complete surprise. And its a real impressive feat this early in the game.

Proffs to you.

[Hadrian_II]

By the way - I have to compliment you on your Tartarian Factory; with the number of faerie queens you've summoned you've either got it, or will soon have it, this turn or next.

Came as a complete surprise. And its a real impressive feat this early in the game.

Proffs to you.

No one has enough research to either summon tartarians or faerie queens.

[chrispedersen]

By the way - I have to compliment you on your Tartarian Factory; with the number of faerie queens you've summoned you've either got it, or will soon have it, this turn or next.

Came as a complete surprise. And its a real impressive feat this early in the game.

Proffs to you.

No one has enough research to either summon tartarians or faerie queens.


Ah. After looking at the battle replay again I have to conclude you're probably right. I've never used the spell summon sprites - I've always gotten them with queens.

[statttis]

Time for the anticlimactic reveal...

Oceania is allied with T'ien Ch'i in the war on Fomoria. Probably not news to Fomoria, what with my huge army gathering by the shore. The reason I'm announcing this is to encourage others to join in and try to collect the bounty. Get your spoils of war while they're still hot!

[Dragar]

The vast might of Oceania enters the fray! Will anyone take the chance to get their feet wet before the sole remaining aquatic becomes too powerful? Tien Chi's gem stockpile must pale into comparison to Oceania's 74 gem income drive hoard!

[Jarkko]

The news agencies of Fomoria, Tien Chi and Oceania have gone all too silent. The Pangaean rabble is getting restless, all we see is the graphs going up and down, but we hear no smack-talking :(

So, what is going on? :)

[otthegreat]

Vanheim is not long for this world. While fighting a bloody losing war against Abysia in the west, the traitorous Sidh of Tir na n'Og have attacked us from the north. I'm willing to give my entire supply of 3000 gold and hundreds of gems (including more than 100 astral pearls) to anyone willing to do anything particularly nasty to either Tir or Aby.

[Dragar]

I may need a delay later this week. I am going in for corrective eye surgery (lasik) on Thursday, and am not sure how long until I'm seeing well enough to play. My guess is two days.

I'll play every turn I have available Thursday morning my time (late wed night US), which means nothing will be due for at least a day, but may not be able to play turns then, and even if I can probably shouldn't be staring at a screen.

So, if we can either put a delay in then, or if the admin can keep an eye out and if I haven't got a turn in I'd really appreciate it. Obviously as soon as I'm ok I'll play turns and post.

If for whatever reason I'm not back longer than people are prepared to wait, I'll wear a stale or two - don't think I've vanished and waste time searching for an AI.

If I don't come back for ages please look up a good eye specialist for me because mine obviously hasn't done his job right!

Thanks,
Dragar

[Quitti]

I don't mind a small break, even though the game is going rather nicely.

[otthegreat]

My computer just crashed and I'm not sure how long it will take to get it fixed. There's no reason to get a sub at this point so I guess I can stale or if someone wants to set me AI. I hope I didn't sound angry in that last post, it was more roleplay than anything... no hard feelings. Good job to Grudgebringer, hEad and Dragar I've had fun fighting you guys.

[cleveland]

In light of the various issues, lets go to a 75hr quickhost for a turn or 2.

c

[Fakeymcfake]

C'tis is in the market for water gems. Will pay in nature, earth, cold hard cash or items (I can forge about anything dealing with nature, death, water or earth, you want hammers I'll make you hammers) PM with offers and we'll work out a deal.

[cleveland]

The host humbly request a 24hr continuance.

Must...hold back...RL tidal wave...

Sorry,
c

[Jarkko]

I'll be traveling from June 3rd to June 17th. I *should* have access to the internet June 7th to June 12th. Thus I will not be able to send in turns between June 3rd - June 6th and June 13th - June 16th (will be home late on the eveing of 17th).

I would like to ask wether I should try to find a sub for those two periods, or can the game be slowed down during those two periods?

Thanks,

-Jarkko

[Jarkko]

Tien Chi just performed a massive scale sneak attack on Pangaea. They succeeded to conquer one province from Pangaea.

If Tien Chi so badly wants a war with Pangaea, then a war you shall have. I call for all my allies to stomp Tien Chi out for good, they have truly shown their colour by now to all and everybody.

For those going to war with Tien Chi, look out for their double blessed pegasii. Looks like TC has been *very* lucky with other sites too, thus their formidable magic arsenal is even more formidable now. Tien Chi truly is a power-house in its current situation.

[chrispedersen]

Ah, zombie brains.

'Formidable magic arsenal'? I'm dead last in research!

Reconquering lands that you took from me, while I was fighting Formoria hardly constitutes a 'sneak' attack. Especially since you cancelled our NAP yourself...... prior to invading my lands...

[Jarkko]

To Tien Chi:

1) We never had a NAP, altough Pangaea twice asked Tien Chi for one

2) Tien Chi demanded Pangaea to attack Marverni when we were not prepared, but in the name of mutual friendship Pangaea complied

3) When Pangaea then did attack, Marverni went AI and Tien Chi did immediatly pull out of the war to fight Formoria, leaving Pangaea alone to fight Marverni

4) At this point Pangaea informed whatever alliance we had reagarding Marverni would be now considered void, because it was apparent Tien Chi just had wanted somebody to attack Marverni while itself could focus on Fomoria. Again Pangaea asked for a NAP, but Tien Chi ignored it once again.

5) Pangaea has only taken lands from Marverni plus the one province back which had previosly been "accidently" conquered from Pangaea (funny thing how those accidents seem to happen regularily to some). Pangaea has never attacked Tien Chi lands.

6) After Pangaea had finally trashed Marverni, Tien Chi saw it fit to demand lands it never would have had a chance to conquer. Pangaea didn't even bother to answer such rubbish.


Tien Chi may be last in research, but funnily enough that doesn't prevent them to field dozens of combat mages to the field. A more suspicious mind might actually believe those two facts are somehow connected...


Notice: Tien Chi has *not* broken any NAP when the suprise attack on Pangaea began, simply because we never had a NAP. Foolishly I have however believed Tien Chi to be a friend of Pangaea, and that is why this sudden assault feels so nasty. I really thought I would be smarter than fall for the oldest trick in the book, but seems that was not the case this time :(

[chrispedersen]

I find bald faced liars tiresome.

Provide one authentic screen shot of me fielding "dozens" of combat mages and I will resign the game.

As for 'abandoning' the fight against Marverni:

The second picture, turn 25, shows who actually was fighting Marverni. Notice not a single Pan force except all the way up in the ittybitty right.

The first picture shows that you have opportunistically conquered all the lands I formerly held. Except of course the one I just retook.

As for province 304 - it was taken from Arco at his request. And of course I have the documentation to prove that.

I know that TC is widely viewed as a tasty snack - and so it has been this game... having combat with no less than 3 nations to date.

And I have no illusions about actually *beating* you pangaea. My entire objective at this point is to ensure that you choke on your ill gotten gains - and so *lose*.

To the other nations of the world: I killed 300 or so of Pans troops - you see the tiny dent it caused in his troop totals. If you wish me to continue denting pan (and you should), please contribute. If I can dent him long enough - his own carrion woods will consume him.

[Jarkko]

The second picture, turn 25, shows who actually was fighting Marverni. Notice not a single Pan force except all the way up in the ittybitty right.

How very convenient of you to show only your own empire in that picture without showing the mainlands of Marverni. Mainland where incidently Pangaean troops were fighting in full swing. As for the rest of the comments, I too can create pictures that conveniently leave out the important parts :)

TC did kill only some 280 troops this turn, true. But they were sadly not many maeanads or manikin present, but the heavy hitting stuff of Pangaea :( No, Pnagea is not on its knees for sure, but this means TC will be able to steam-roll for a couple turns. When the best of my best troops get slaughtered by a few double-blessed pegasii (supported by 6 combat mages in that one battle only, with more in the other TC forces), it is time for a strategic withdrawal.

TC diplomats are super quality. They make TC appear weak, so that others, just of pity, would jump in and help them. In Pangaea we found out the truth the hard way, hopefully others don't have to make the same mistakes :doh:

[chrispedersen]

The second picture, turn 25, shows who actually was fighting Marverni. Notice not a single Pan force except all the way up in the ittybitty right.

How very convenient of you to show only your own empire in that picture without showing the mainlands of Marverni. Mainland where incidently Pangaean troops were fighting in full swing. As for the rest of the comments, I too can create pictures that conveniently leave out the important parts :)

TC did kill only some 280 troops this turn, true. But they were sadly not many maeanads or manikin present, but the heavy hitting stuff of Pangaea :( No, Pnagea is not on its knees for sure, but this means TC will be able to steam-roll for a couple turns. When the best of my best troops get slaughtered by a few double-blessed pegasii (supported by 6 combat mages in that one battle only, with more in the other TC forces), it is time for a strategic withdrawal.


Most people would say that the "mainlands of Marverni" include its capital. Which is prominantly displayed on the pictures I provided.

It was you, not I, that made the statement that *I* had abandonned the fight against Marverni. So I showed a picture of Marverni troops deep within TC territories. And me fighting them.

I notice you are no longer contesting the fact that you invaded TC lands, not vice versa. Funny how pictures will do that.

As for steamrolling - thats not really the truth either now is it. If it were you would accept the following offer:
Challenge: Return to the turn25 boundaries shown on the map- accept Marverni's capital as your just rewards - plus all the *other* Marverni lands that you have already taken. Keep also the territory to the far right top - that you wanted so badly and where you admitted you *betrayed* me.. or do you need me to repeat your words?

You already have more of Marverni lands than I. Accept those- and its capital and you can have peace - and a chance to win the game.

But of course you will decline, as I am of no actual threat. A mistake, but I will prove it over the next several turns, starting by relieving the siege of Marverni, inshallah.

[chrispedersen]

TC diplomats are super quality. They make TC appear weak, so that others, just of pity, would jump in and help them.

you mean.. "jump in and help themselves to our territories.."

Sorry, not interested!
Fortunately, not all nations have zombies for brains =P.

[cleveland]

Game postponed through Memorial Day weekend.
Cheers
Cleveland

[Jarkko]

You already have more of Marverni lands than I.
Of course Pangaea has. Pangaea has done all the fighting while TC saw it fit to attack Fomoria, and *then* come back and claim lands Pangaea has bled for when Fomoria apparently didn't agree to roll over and die as TC had hoped.

Also, *please* try to have *some* truth in the communiques, they would be much more trustworthy if there was even one piece of truth to hang on to. For example, Tien Chi did attack Pangaea, I do not understand *how* you can make Pangaea the aggressor when I have never attacked a single Tien Chi province (except to take one province back from your "accident", which you admitted and gave clearence to(altough Pan had to slightly freak out before TC was able to admit its mistake)) and with Tien Chi pegasi landing out of the blue sky into Pangaean lands.

But of course you will decline, as I am of no actual threat. A mistake, but I will prove it over the next several turns, starting by relieving the siege of Marverni, inshallah.
Of course I will decline. It is time *somebody* stands up to face the TC bullying before TC is in the winning position, which it btw is not far away from at the moment. I applaud at the *very* superb strategic skill Tien Chi has shown far managing the charts in an excellent way: To show low performance in charts, while in reality building for a massive turbo annexing frenzy. This is a lesson I do value a lot, and I am grateful I have been able to witness it so closely!


I do not have high hopes about the result of the war if it would remain 1 vs 1. But then again, I am pretty sure it does not stay so; TC silver tongue will lure more people to foolish actions while I certainly do hope some would realise what is going on and stop TC before they grow out of all proportion. At the very least Pangaea will give Tien Chi a full run for the money. Tien Chi *is* already in a class of its own, and none can stand against their might alone anymore.

[chrispedersen]

You already have more of Marverni lands than I.
At the very least Pangaea will give Tien Chi a full run for the money. Tien Chi *is* already in a class of its own, and none can stand against their might alone anymore.

Snicker... and you said all that with a straight face....

[Jarkko]

Have we lost cleveland for good? Caelum had its second stale in row...

---

FNN (Forest News Network)

*BREAK THE NEWS*

A glorious victory for Pangaea against the cruel and evil Tien Chi invaders!

FNN reporters were present today to witness a Pangaean army under the command of the prophet Hippothoos taking defensive positions outside the city of Marverni. From the east the feared enemy, the forerunners of the Tien Chi army advanced seemingly unstoppable. The Tien Chi forward force consisted of some 50 pegasus riders together with some sacred footmen. During the battle half a score battle-mages were also seen casting deadly spells over and over again against the ranks of Pangaean braves.

After hours and hours of heavy fighting Tien Chi troops retreated off the field. Behind they left the corpses of most of their superb pegasus riders, as well as practically all the sacred footmen. Pangaean losses were incredibly high, some 400 pangaeans will not see the new day.

"This is a great day for Pangea!" exclaimed prophet Hippothoos after the battle. "We have shown what Pangaea is made of, the enemy may kill us in droves but we will prevail!"

Some Pangaen observers were not as positive of the result. FNN succeeded to recieve a comment from an un-named woodsman blowpiper fighting in the Pangaen army: "If it takes this heavy casulties to stop their forerunners, how will we fare when their main army arrives?"

Indeed, the Tien Chi pretender (who is ranked 9F9W5S on the unofficial thaumic meter) leads a massive army consisting of warriors of five elements, Tien Chi national demons and other assorted troops towards Pangaean lands. The land is said to tremble miles away when the army marches. According to one source the army has already slaughtered two Pangaen pre-emptive self-defenseforces, and they were not able to even scratch the Tien Chi army.

Will Pangaea survive the onslaught of the Tien Chi main army? How many victories of this scale can Pangaea take before the casulties get too high? Where is the Pangaean Pretender who almost alone destroyed Marverni forces in the previous war?

Stay tuned to FNN and you will be the first to know the answers!

[chrispedersen]

I'd like to report the use of an exploit:

As *specifically* listed as the biggest remaining exploit in Dominions, it is considered *not* permissible to use multiple domes in a province - which *was* used at the Marverni capital.

[statttis]

Isn't it only an exploit if you use multiples of the same kind?

[Jarkko]

I'd like to report the use of an exploit:

As *specifically* listed as the biggest remaining exploit in Dominions, it is considered *not* permissible to use multiple domes in a province - which *was* used at the Marverni capital.
I think the besieged Marverni AI has set up the other one. I am pretty sure when I attacked the province it had just the fire dome up, but I too noticed from this latest turn there are now two domes up. If needed I can backtrack turns and check what the situation was when I attacked the province the first time.

[chrispedersen]

Nah, there's not much we can do if its the AI.

But #!@@@@!!! you red baron! Imagine if the other half of the TC army had made it there!

[cleveland]

Well, I'm sad to announce that RL finally caught up to me, and in my 2 stales, the combined might of Mictlan and the unscrupulous half-monkey/half-rats of Kalisa have dismantled the Eagle Kings Empire.

Will someone volunteer to take over admin duties?

[Jarkko]

Imagine if the other half of the TC army had made it there!
Considering your forerunners basically trashed my main army, I have to admit I think I can imagine what would have happenened if your main army had arrived :eek:

The city of Marverni has proven to be quite a death-trap for Pangaea. Tien Chi killed some 400 Pangaeans there, and earlier I have already lost on two failed assault attempts some 200 troops and 8 commanders...

[fungalreason]

Anyone else for moving to 48 hours now?

[Fakeymcfake]

I can take over cleveland. Just PM me the admin password.

[hEad]

I second a change to 48hrs.

[Jarkko]

Too bad to hear cleveland has to step down, I've really enjoyed the map and the game so far! I am however sure Fakey will do an equally good job as GM :)

I am also for 48 hours. I hope the new admin also agrees to (like cleveland already did) possibly hold the turn resolution next week (and the following week) when I am without access to the net; else I'll have a hard time trying to find a sub with such a short notice :(

[Quitti]

48h is good for me.

[Hadrian_II]

i'd also like to go for 48h

[chrispedersen]

Dismayedly, the tien chi foot soldiers regarded the monstrous 60 Pangean God bearing down on them.

"Ah, damn thats a load of bull"...

"No doubt" said the second, "but I am sure our glorious leaders have a plan"

"So do I" said the first. "Run!!"

It is said that the dust from the departing army did not settle for several weeks.... (with apologies to bored of the rings)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey, Poros the God of Pangaea, caster of several rituals, is in province 284. If someone wanted to dispel that Mother Oak, by means of arranging his 'accidental' death you would find an appreciative Tien Chi.


Inquire within....

[Fakeymcfake]

Well I can switch it over to 48h as soon as I get the admin info (looks in Cleveland's direction) as for the delays, PM me exactly what you want (dates/times/etc) and we'll work something out either in the form of a delay or a sub.

[Fakeymcfake]

Correction, I was informed that the rules at the start of the game was that a 75% vote in favor of the change in turn hosting had to be reached and it had to be reached in 24 hours time (which is wasn't). So you'll be able to call another vote in 3 turns. Also I'll send out notice to all the player's emails just so everyone will know if/when it comes to that (so you'll have more of a chance to hit a 75% majority).

[Dragar]

wow, we have a pretty tough constitution!

[cleveland]

Fakey - Thanks a lot for volunteering, but the venerable chrispedersen beat you to it via PM. chris is the new admin, though i'll keep watching my PMs to ensure everything transfers smoothly.

All - I postponed hosting by 24 hrs in response to request. The game lasted 42 turns without a permanent timer extension! That's got to be some kind of record.

I really appreciate the positive feedback, particularly concerning the map. I hope you all have had/continue to have fun with this game, and I wish everyone good luck.

Cheers,
cleveland

[Jarkko]

Marverni troops decided to storm out of the besieged castle, and caused massive casualties to Pangaea. Good thing TC didnt attack Marverni this turn but went raiding instead :eek:

[chrispedersen]

Massive casualties? You still own the place! You ought to try patrolling that siege zone by the way = )

Besides, I have no siege troops. The plan has always been to let *you* take the fort, and then take it from you. That way, you take the casualties, and fort defenses are still down the next turn. Hurry up, will ya?

[Jarkko]

Hurry up, will ya?
My first two assault forces were destroyed. Then I brought some reinforcements, but they were destroyed by TC. Then I brought a new wave of reinforcements and they were scattered to the wind by the Marverni.

That place is cursed, dammit...

[Aethyr]

I agree w/48 hours.

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, no skin off my back.

[hEad]

I also request a move to 48hrs.

[chrispedersen]

Yeah, according to the rules, the motion failed as it didn't get the 75% needed. Just set up another vote in 3 turns.

[fungalreason]

Well then I request 3 24 hour extensions for the next 3 turns.

[fungalreason]

Besides where are you getting the idea that a vote failed? Perhaps you'd care to point out a single person voting against it?

If the current admin can manage simple things fairly like the hosting schedule, perhaps someone else is willing to step up and take it over?

[Dragar]

I'm quite happy at 24 hrs but seriously, if this many people want it longer and no-one actually objects, lets amend (or ignore) the consitituion and push it. It has been a great game, lets not spoil it now by rushing people

[chrispedersen]

Besides where are you getting the idea that a vote failed? Perhaps you'd care to point out a single person voting against it?

If the current admin can manage simple things fairly like the hosting schedule, perhaps someone else is willing to step up and take it over?

Sheesh fungal. Just look at the conditions on the first page - I am simply following the rules that were agreed to by all the players.

A lot of people liked the fast turn-around the last time this came to a vote. As we haven't heard from them we can't really know whether they want to speed up the timer or not.

The turn was delayed 24 hours for the vote. If you seriously need another 24 hours, of course we'll delay. However, Jarrko has requested the game be pause for a week on June 3rd. And while he is looking for a sub, it seems likely he will not find one.

So, personally, I'd like to get 2 more turns in before the week pause by Jarrko.

[fungalreason]

Why does your preference weigh more than the 6 people that Actually responded!?!?!?!

I don't even see why this is an issue. It's turn 43. My turns are complicated, as I'm sure the other people that are in wars are too. I have other commitments than just this game, and at best you save TWO turns.

If you can't understand that, then you have no business being admin.

[Calahan]

- When you feel the game timer should be permanently extended, post a notice in this thread. If another player "seconds" your motion, a vote will be held. The current turn timer will be immediately extended by 24hrs (to prevent turn-specific influence), and the admin will send an email to all players announcing the vote. All active players will then vote to either (A) Permanently extend the game timer, (B) Keep the game timer as-is, or (C) Abstain. Quorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum) shall be 75% of ACTIVE players. Majority vote wins. Should a vote fail, no further vote shall be held for 3 turns.



If I can play the role of impartial outsider here regarding the issue of extending the hosting. The above constitution, copied from the status page, states that 75% of the current active players have to vote for a quorum to be reached, with the majority decision winning. It does not say that 75% of the players have to agree, or that they have to respond within a given timeframe.

So far the vote to extend the hosting from what I can see on the forum is...

In Favour

1. fungalreason
2. hEad
3. Jarkko
4. Quitti
5. Hadrian_II
6. Aethyr
7. Fakeymcfake
8. Statttis (Edit: added this vote)

Against

1. ChrisPedersen
2. Drager

So that is currently 7-2 (Edit: now 8-2) in favour of an increase. There are currently 13 active players (according to the llamaserver) so the missing player votes do not matter as even if all the other player voted against the increase, it would still be passed at a 7-6 majority.(Edit: now reads 8-5) The same goes for needing a quorum. (Edit: 10/13 is now over 75%)

Hope I don't offend anyone by posting my views and analysis, but I have a lot of RL experience with constitutions, and if you are following this one to the letter (never a good thing with any constitution in my experience since they all lack common sense) then even then the players wishing to increase the hosting would prevail.

Edit: Managed to edit in time to add statttis's vote below.

[statttis]

I vote to move to 48 hrs

[chrispedersen]

Why does your preference weigh more than the 6 people that Actually responded!?!?!?!

I don't even see why this is an issue. It's turn 43. My turns are complicated, as I'm sure the other people that are in wars are too. I have other commitments than just this game, and at best you save TWO turns.

If you can't understand that, then you have no business being admin.

I suggested you read the rules we agreed, which explained why the motion failed. Since you didn't, I'll repost:

"All active players will then vote to either (A) Permanently extend the game timer, (B) Keep the game timer as-is, or (C) Abstain. Quorum shall be 75% of ACTIVE players. Majority vote wins. Should a vote fail, no further vote shall be held for 3 turns."

We have *14* active players. *Six* is not the *11* votes needed.
I gave valid reasons for prefering to wait two more turns, but it isn't what any one player wants that matters.

The last time there was a vote, the exact same procedure was followed. You didn't give cleveland a problem - why are you giving me one?

Edit:
Calahan: At the time of the vote we had 14 players. We lost one player, and stattis voted after the turn processed (and no one in this discussion staled).

But I would be happy to have Calahan take up admin duties, if he's willing to accept.

[chrispedersen]

Look, this is what I suggest:

I have no problem in stepping down as admin and letting Fakey admin. I sent an email to that effect to Fakey.

In the interrim, it now looks as if the quorum of people want to extend the timer, (something that wasn't true at the start of this debate).

I'd like to suggest we just stay with the current schedule until June 3rd, and then switch to 48 hrs. But if thats not amenable then we can switch, now by all means.