Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysterio's Revenge, EA, CBM, Game Over. Vets defeat Noobs.

[Septimius Severus]

Game conceded by the noob team at turn 31. Congratulations to the vet team.

And so it begins.

Mysterio, the only man who can withstand the gaze of a gorgon, happening upon the mortally wounded Mysteria who lay dying on the battlefield after the defeat of her veteran pretender god allies, vows to avenge her defeat and restore her to life. Using arcane magicks, Mysterio travels back into time to destroy the ancestors of the noob pretender gods and their armies to ensure that they will never be born and thereby prevent the death of his beloved wife and half sister Mysteria.

This is a team game and the sequel to the original Noobs vs. Vets.

This time around the focus will be on magic, longer term stategic planning, development, and accelerated research.

Here are the settings for the game:

Hosting via Llamaserver

Early Age
CBM 1.41c (or latest CBM)
Teams and map: 10 Noobs vs 5 Vets on Orania, fixed starts, 1 water nation required. Additional slots will be available to the last to join as alternate/standby players.
Treaties: A mutual global Non-Aggression Pact will be in effect for 10 turns from the start of the game. Both sides will refrain from initiating any hostile actions against each other until the beginning of turn # 11.
Hosting interval: Quickhost. First 9 @ 32 hours, turn 10 = 38 hours, 6 hours added every 10 turns thereafter with the maximum to be decided by consensus.

Magic Research: Easy.
Magic Site Frequency: 75.
Indie strength: 4.
Score Graphs: On.
Victory conditions: No vps/victory, annihilation of opposing team.
Delays: Liberal. Automatically granted provided I receive a PM in time and you post on the thread as well to let everyone know, and there are no major objections.

Teams:

Noobs
Septimius Severus - [Ermor]
Grudgebringer - [Fomoria]
Ossa - [Sauromatia]
Lavaere - [Lanka]
Illuminated One - [Mictlan]
viccio - [Abysia]
LumenPlacidum - [Agartha]
Darloth - [C'tis]
Stretch - [Vanhiem]
P3D - [T'ien Chi']

Unoptimized (standby/alternate)
mikh4il (standby/alternate)
majuva68 (standby/alternate)
Jachra (standy/alternate)

Noob Forum: Team Noob HQ (http://teamnoob.forumotion.net/forum.htm)

Vets
Lingchih - [Niefelheim]
TheDemon - [Caelum]
atul - [Atlantis]
Ironhawk - [Helheim]
Quantum_Mechani - [Hinnom]

Zeldor (standby/alternate)
namad (standby/alternate)

Vet Forum: Team Vet HQ (http://teamvet.forumotion.net/index.htm)

Backup Admin: rdonj

Alternates will be contacted/selected to fill vacanies during the game.

Thanks.
IMPERATORCAESARLVCIVSSEPTIVSSEVERVSPERTINAXAVGVSTV SPIVS

And don't miss the third and final installment in the critically acclaimed Noobs vs. Vets series, coming to a Dominions server near you: Twice as large as NvVII, more than 30+ players (including alternates), and massive battles. Reserve your spot today.

[alansmithee]

I'd like to sign up for the noob team, if possible.

[rdonj]

Hold a spot for grudgebringer, I think he might still be interested.

[Ossa]

I'd like to join -and I'm ok with both teams. I've played quite a few games so far but hardly ever reached the endgame.

[Lavaere]

I was hoping LA again, since I've finally getting used to Bogarus. MA I play Shinuyama, and haven't gotten around to a EA nation yet.
So what would be a good mage central nation for EA that I could play as

[Septimius Severus]

I was hoping LA again, since I've finally getting used to Bogarus. MA I play Shinuyama, and haven't gotten around to a EA nation yet.
So what would be a good mage central nation for EA that I could play as

Hmm, EA has an emphasis on magic already built into most of the nations, I'm not quite sure, perhaps T'ien chi, or Arco maybe. Ponder it whilst we finish getting signups and then you can choose.

[Septimius Severus]

I'd like to join -and I'm ok with both teams. I've played quite a few games so far but hardly ever reached the endgame.

You or Grudgebringer (one of our returning alternates) would be fine on the noob side, provided there are no objections from the vet team before we start, that has been and will always be their right. Understandably so, given the odds and as very green noobs are prefered.

[Septimius Severus]

Hold a spot for grudgebringer, I think he might still be interested.

Will do.

[Zeldor]

I may be interested to join as Hinnom, but it depends on who else wants to join on vet side and if I'll have enough free time :)

[Lavaere]

Well I do like the Three Kingdoms literature, so I'll try Tien Chi this game

[Ironhawk]

I'm tempted to play in the rematch but I think that the timing is way too slow. Especially for a game thats expected to last even longer than the original.

[pyg]

I'm not playing but I would like to comment that I think the 2:1 odds is really too much against the vets. I think almost every matchup at these odds will result in the noobs winning esp. if they press their advantage early in the game. I think 3:2 would be more fair/exciting. In the last game many of the noobs didn't even have access to the vets and I suspect the game would have been even more lopsided if they had.

[Illuminated One]

This sounds like a lot of fun.

Can the teams work coordinated like individual team members taking roles (like frontline fighter or forge whore) or is the start to random to do that?
If so I'd like to join the noob team.

[GrudgeBringer]

I am already trying to keep Baalz from beheading me in WOTR.

I love these games however, my knowledge of Magic (or lack there of) would be a detriment to the team especially in a LARGE game.

Put me as an alternate and I will play if you need someone to round out the Noobs....Try and save Arco for me as its the one nation I DO know a little.:D

[GrudgeBringer]

OOPS, didn't see the part about not picking nations...:doh:

[rdonj]

In the previous game it didn't quite work out coordinatedly. We had fixed starts but did not know them until the start of the game and some people were given access to the enemy, and some were not. This one will be on a larger map, with fixed start locations also. It should allow everyone access though. So it would be more possible to play for the team by having some players forge and others take up other duties as theri primary responsibilities.

Pyg, in the previous game you probably would have been right about that. In this one I am not so sure. The vet team in the first game was very weak magically and did not have room to expand. In this one I think overall gold income will be much closer, plus the vet team will be able to make much better use of their magic. It's a pretty strong disadvantage they're at at the beginning, but if you bump their numbers up too much it will be almost impossible to give the noob team any chance of victory.

Grudgebringer: That's the point! This is a game intended for people who are not that practiced at the game. The point is to learn by watching all the horrifying things the vet team comes up with to do to you. Think of it as a crash course in magic 101 ;)

[Lingchih]

I'm afraid I won't be playing if the odds are 2 to 1 again. We have already proved that is untenable. I will play if, as Pyg suggest, the teams are instead 3:2.

[rdonj]

Oh well, I'm not playing anyway so I don't care that much about team sizes :D

[quantum_mechani]

So, I'm on the fence about playing again, I thought the last one was lots of fun, but that was largely due to the small map.

Would be possible to find some kind of compromise map? Last time was around 7 provs per player, the current selections are I think around 20. Maybe something like 14 per player?

Also, I disagree about reducing the odds, I think 2 vs 1 is fine, especially on a bigger map than last time.

[Ironhawk]

If the map is large, giving us some time to build up an advantage, 2:1 is probably still ok. 15+ provs / player might be ok, but we should err on the side of caution given our last experience. My main worry being that even if a nation has 15 provs allocated when you think about laying out those provs radially, you might have as little as 2-3 provs b/w your cap and the enemy front. Thats not a long distance for an early rush, still.

[viccio]

I'm interesting to play with noobs... i will Try EA abissya

[namad]

your settings don't seem to agree with your description about the game....


massive gem incomes and easy research do not make for a long strategic game but for a shorter game....


anyways I'd be willing to play for either team.

I've been in 4 PBEM games total including the one I am in now
but i'm also on IRC like 8hours a day 5-7days a week...

in all honesty i probably am slightly too good to be a noob and slightly too bad to be a vet but if you wanna play the bigger map or get desperate filling slots.. or whatever.....


also what's with the non-standard timing? don't most games play 24h for the first 10-20turns 48h for the next 10-30turns and then 72h for turns above like 40or50?

the first dozen turns really should only take 15minutes each... assuming you practice a bit in single player against the independents the multiplayer game is very simple until the first war breaks out?

[ano]

I think that such timing is quite good. Team game is very different from normal and even in simple team game players NEED to constantly discuss and make decisions together. If they want to be successful, of course. 6 hours per 10 turns is a bit little though, IMHO. 8 might be better.
Also, from what I read at the previous game topic, it was mainly cooperation, discussion and coordination what won that game. Smaller team will always be a subject to rush and without proper discussions when each nation is left on its own it has no chance at all. Each arrow on the map may be crucial and so is each soldier's life. It is not nearly an exaggeration.
I also think that vets should be given some advantages (for example, more capital pop or selecting nations first) have a chance to be successful.

[llamabeast]

Thanks for the invitation to be a vet! I won't take you up on the offer because I'm writing up my PhD thesis at the moment (and will be for the next few months), so I'm not starting any games. When I finally finish though, I'll definitely be signing up for some!

[Illuminated One]

In the previous game it didn't quite work out coordinatedly. We had fixed starts but did not know them until the start of the game and some people were given access to the enemy, and some were not. This one will be on a larger map, with fixed start locations also. It should allow everyone access though. So it would be more possible to play for the team by having some players forge and others take up other duties as theri primary responsibilities.

Yeah, that's what I mean. If I knew my starting location and that I was protected by other players I'd love to take a supportive role. Given the huge impact this would have on overall strategies this would really make a kind of new game.

[Lavaere]

yeah i think maybe 3:2 would be more fun. is there a way to make fixed start locations, but who starts at those locations random. if so I say we go with that for the game.

[Lingchih]

Well, I suppose I should play, since the game is named after my previous Pretender, but something has to change. Either 3:2 player ratio, or either of the suggestions by QM and IH. And this is early age, so it's a whole different ballpark for Pan, though I could still use the same Gorgon build.

[Septimius Severus]

Well, I suppose I should play, since the game is named after my previous Pretender, but something has to change. Either 3:2 player ratio, or either of the suggestions by QM and IH. And this is early age, so it's a whole different ballpark for Pan, though I could still use the same Gorgon build.


Yes you should play Lingchih, otherwise I'll have to change the subtitle and this way provides a continuum from the last. Mysteria must get what is coming to her!

I will grant you and all the vets first choice of nations to give you an additional advantage. This should ease your feelings regarding 2:1, also some vets seem not to have an issue with it. Remember, your knowledge of the magic system and the time to use it will certainly level the playing field.

I do not wish to repeat the rush type of game in cramped quarters with no development that contributed to the vets loss last time. I do not want a game that is going to end 20 turns in.

I will see to it, that there is quite some distance between both camps to prevent any early hostilities. I want everyone to have room to spread and time to research.

[Septimius Severus]

your settings don't seem to agree with your description about the game....


massive gem incomes and easy research do not make for a long strategic game but for a shorter game....

As I'm a noob and not experienced with all of the magic system beyond level 4 or so, tell me why you believe this will shorten the game? especially when both teams have equal access?

Yes, there are global enchants and spells to wreak havoc in distant provinces, but is this really a concern with regard to game shortening?. In the previous game, noobs learned primarily battle tactics in a rather frenzied environment, with almost no experience towards spell research and use. This game is meant to quickly allow noob players access to the spell system and give them a chance to familiarize themselves with it and indeed use it against the vets.

With regard to hosting interval:

As ano pointed out, we are using a non standard hosting interval larglely to allow time for discussion among team members, and also to accomodate my sometimes busy schedule and those of others (selfish, I know, but what can I say). Turn completion time has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, I think we might begin at 32 rather than 30.


I'll put you down as a standby for the noob team right now.
Should you end up in the starting roster, the vets will have final say as to whether you are "Too good".

[Septimius Severus]

So, I'm on the fence about playing again, I thought the last one was lots of fun, but that was largely due to the small map.

Would be possible to find some kind of compromise map? Last time was around 7 provs per player, the current selections are I think around 20. Maybe something like 14 per player?

Also, I disagree about reducing the odds, I think 2 vs 1 is fine, especially on a bigger map than last time.

QM, some players saw action and some did not, I was forced to place 15 players on a tiny map, largely attempting to accomodate yourself and the vets. I think the prov/player ratio is fine and will tend toward what I had originally intended, a longer playing game.

I was upset with the last game, because it was totatly not what I wanted, but went along for everyone else's sake. I am willing to compromise, though, if there is absolutely no other alternative. I urge you, and the any other vets on the fence, to go ahead and join us, and not fret about the prov/player ratio.

Btw: do we have a new version of CBM compatible with the latest update to Dominions?

[Septimius Severus]

I'm interesting to play with noobs... i will Try EA abissya


Your in, though hold off on nation selection for right now please, with the exception of returning alternates and vets. Thanks

[LumenPlacidum]

I'd like to try again on the noobs side, please.

[quantum_mechani]

So, I'm on the fence about playing again, I thought the last one was lots of fun, but that was largely due to the small map.

Would be possible to find some kind of compromise map? Last time was around 7 provs per player, the current selections are I think around 20. Maybe something like 14 per player?

Also, I disagree about reducing the odds, I think 2 vs 1 is fine, especially on a bigger map than last time.

QM, some players saw action and some did not, I was forced to place 15 players on a tiny map, largely attempting to accomodate yourself and the vets. I think the prov/player ratio is fine and will tend toward what I had originally intended, a longer playing game.

I was upset with the last game, because it was totatly not what I wanted, but went along for everyone else's sake. I am willing to compromise, though, if there is absolutely no other alternative. I urge you, and the any other vets on the fence, to go ahead and join us, and not fret about the prov/player ratio.

Btw: do we have a new version of CBM compatible with the latest update to Dominions?
I appreciate you went with the flow last game, and for what it's worth I thought it worked great with the small map. I mean, yes, it was over fast but it was lots of fun and I think at worst the smaller map called for a less extreme noob to vet ratio. The one problem is as you say some nations not making it to the front lines, but that's more function of the particular map than the size.

Current CB should work with the newest patch, there is also a good chance I'll release a new version before this game starts.

[namad]

the more research the faster players can die... if you want to make the game longer you make the research more difficult.... maybe we can get someone like ironhawk or QM to comment on this but i am almost totally certain that your change to settings will only serve to decrease the total number of turns played before the game is over


i'm not saying thats a bad thing... i'm just saying it seems like you can't make up your mind between a high magic game and a long drawn out game... and it'd only be fair to change the description to match the settings

[Ironhawk]

Using easy research does generally speed the game up. However, in this case using easy research is the right thing to do since the intent is to have the noobs gain experience by exposure to mid/late game magic. This setting will insure that the vets bring out the tricks sooner and are more resistant to rushing.

[Septimius Severus]

the more research the faster players can die... if you want to make the game longer you make the research more difficult.... maybe we can get someone like ironhawk or QM to comment on this but i am almost totally certain that your change to settings will only serve to decrease the total number of turns played before the game is over


i'm not saying thats a bad thing... i'm just saying it seems like you can't make up your mind between a high magic game and a long drawn out game... and it'd only be fair to change the description to match the settings

Generally, I'd agree, we'd also increase pd as well to drawn out the game, and increase the prov/player ratio. But as Ironhawk has said the intent in this game is to quickly familiarize the noobs with the magic system. Will it shorten the game, perhaps, particularly for the noob team who don't know how to use it effectively, but I think we can live with it. I want a long game, but not forever. Also, there are different dynamics in a team game.

Since I've never played with easy research, exactly how easy is easy? If you've got a unit researching at 12 per turn in normal, does this mean, they now research at 24 in easy, or 6 in hard?
If it turns out that it is too quick like 4 or 8 times normal, then that might be a concern.

[namad]

so then the description should say something like...

"accelerated magic development, for earlier use of advanced tactics"

the tactics are coming online earlier... not being prolonged... that is an honorable and fine goal.. it's just not what the sentence he used said... or at least if thats what it meant i didn't understand myself

[TheDemon]

Sign me up as a vet.

[Lavaere]

easy research, ain't that 20 points for level 1 magic. this is going to be fun. should be fun as I normally play very difficult in my SP games

[atul]

If there's room I'll sign in.

Vet side, if they take me.

We get to pick nations already? Sauromatia?

And qm has a point about 20 provs per player being a LOT, but it's up to admin of course.

[TheDemon]

I kind of agree on the provs/player being high. For me a "high" provs per player is 15. 20 is on the extreme side. With that and double speed research and first dibs on nations, it seems the vets hold all the cards this time. Of course, that might be the point, I dunno. Oh and if I get to call a nation, I'd like Caelum, pending a team discussion of course.

[Ironhawk]

It is high and worth discussing. However keep in mind that this game will effectively be a duel. So its not impossible that some indy provs will just get overlooked. Happened even in the last game with a smaller map and way less provs/player just because the fighting was so intense.

[namad]

so rumor has it the noob team has a top secret forum for discussing top secret plans?

if this is true i'd like to get into it, asap...

i figure if QM or maybe ironhawk or whomever will authorize me joining the noob team that would serve? or he can invite me to play on his team instead, or he can suggest i don't play the game at all... i'd understand any of the options ... but whichever one it is i'd like to join the top secret wiki/forum for that particular team ... an open wiki might be best because it can allow for good organization of information AND theres also sections for discussions included? ...maybe i'm rambling, eh?

[rdonj]

http://teamnoob.forumotion.net/

All the discussion from the last game was "archived", and there's a hidden forum on there that only people in a user group can see, currently there's nothing in it though. It will be used again to organize the game unless people decide to do things differently.

[quantum_mechani]

I haven't actually joined so I guess I don't really have a vote, but I'm ok with namad on the noob team.

[namad]

don't worry QM i'll sign up on your behalf!

uhm guys... the entire forum is public... if your gonna discuss top secret stuff you should make the forum unreadable except to registered members and you should have a moderator only accept registrations from the team members....


wanna look into a wiki?

[Lavaere]

thats because its been archived so anyone can see it. of course once the new game starts, only those in the group will see whats happening.

wonder if rdonj, will allow a vet forumgroup. that way when a game finishes both sides will have an archive of what they did.

also can't wait until a couple more games down the line. I might be good enough to be on the vets side facing the Noobish Horde

[Lingchih]

Yeah, a vet forum group would be most helpful. I guess I could set one up, or maybe rdonj could do it for me? Would be much better than the occasional email we sent each other last game.

That is, if we ever get any vets to sign up. They're not exactly breaking down the doors to get into this one.

Oh, and namad, I've played with you. I don't consider you a noob. I'm not vetoing you, but if you play on the noob team, I would consider you a ringer.

[archaeolept]

no, i'll vouch for his nub status ;)

ok, him and ossa are probably 1.5 nubs... should be x vets vs 2x-1 nubs :)

[Septimius Severus]

Let me address the issue of prov/player ratio.

20 prov/player is not bad, me and Lingchi are in a game where there's 60+ provinces per player, in a FFA game, 4 players on a large map,so this shouldn't be a major concern. As this is a team game, you can certainly coordinate with your team members if you wish to take on a more or less provinces, or play a supporting role, or whatever you like. This is certainly not micromanagment hell.

With regard to map choice:

I have purposely limited map selection to only those maps included in the Dom3 distro to keep it simple for noobs. Orania (200+) , and the orginal Glory (400+) are the only maps large enough.

Lingchih, the vets should definately have a forum, get with rdonj, if you need assistance in setting it up. Forumnation, is a good choice. PM or post the website address and I'll stick it to the main page.

Let me reiterate, I want only green noobs on the noob team. Namad, perhaps your more qualified for the vet team, or at least as a standby, but if the vets don't veto you your fine on the noob team if there are no more really green noobs signed up.

QM and Ironhawk, lets have a decision soon, so I can get these teams organized properly and this game underway.

Easy research appears to be 20 for level 1 as opposed to 40 in normal, so that is effectively twice as easy, that is fine for our purposes.

[quantum_mechani]

20 prov/player is not bad, me and Lingchi are in a game where there's 60+ provinces per player, in a FFA game, 4 players on a large map,so this shouldn't be a major concern. As this is a team game, you can certainly coordinate with your team members if you wish to take on a more or less provinces, or play a supporting role, or whatever you like. This is certainly not micromanagment hell.
Just because there are other insane games out there with 20+ provs per players doesn't make it fun or a good idea. As for supporting roles with less provinces, that's just slightly less micromanagement with almost none of the fun.

As for coming to decision, feel free to start without me if you've got enough players, the settings just scare me as it stands.

[Septimius Severus]

so then the description should say something like...

"accelerated magic development, for earlier use of advanced tactics"

the tactics are coming online earlier... not being prolonged... that is an honorable and fine goal.. it's just not what the sentence he used said... or at least if thats what it meant i didn't understand myself

I'll see if I can be a bit more precise in my description. Generally when I think of tactics, I think short term, battlefield movements, positioning,etc, strategy or strategic, generally implies longer term, campaign planning, sort of stuff. And this will be longer term compared to our previous game.

[Lingchih]

Well, I think with a decision from QM and Ironhawk on if they will play, we could get the ball rolling. I've asked Micah to play, but he seems reluctant, though interested.

Personally, I think if we could get Micah into the game, it would make a much better game.

Oh, and on the micromanagement thing, I just meant that EA Pan is a beast of micromanagement. I didn't mean anything about the game settings. (Freespawn Maenads and all).

[Septimius Severus]

20 prov/player is not bad, me and Lingchi are in a game where there's 60+ provinces per player, in a FFA game, 4 players on a large map,so this shouldn't be a major concern. As this is a team game, you can certainly coordinate with your team members if you wish to take on a more or less provinces, or play a supporting role, or whatever you like. This is certainly not micromanagment hell.
Just because there are other insane games out there with 20+ provs per players doesn't make it fun or a good idea. As for supporting roles with less provinces, that's just slightly less micromanagement with almost none of the fun.

As for coming to decision, feel free to start without me if you've got enough players, the settings just scare me as it stands.

What else scares you about the settings?

The vets should have an definate advantage with easy research and extended play (past turn 20). It was your own suggestion.

You guys have first nation choice, you may choose the nations generally banned in other games (such as Hinnom).

I shall keep the noob team as green as possible. You've got veto power to boot.

What else do you want? Come now. Will you not indulge me this time around? (as I have done last game), do it for your vet team, avenge your loss.

More prov doesn't necesarilly equal less fun, every player has their own preferences. It also means more income to support larger armies, and diversity of non-nation recruitment. 15 vs 20 is no big difference.

[atul]

You just put me into noob team on the list on 1st page. Fun as that might be, I dont think I'd qualify. ;)

Any room in the more experienced end?

[Zeldor]

I wouldn't count namad as a noob really. I don't know why he would want to be counted as one either. For me noob is someone with 2-3 MP games max. After that you are a normal player, not experienced, but normal. Vet would be a player with some games won or at least plenty of them played.

Anyway, count me as alternate, not main player. I am not sure if I have enough time to join next game [even though I'd really want to take part in it].

[rdonj]

Yeah, I can set up a forum for the vets if you guys like. A forum on the already-existing one would be much easier, but with the unfortunate side effect of me not being able to set it so I can't see what you all are saying :P If you trust me not to look I'd prefer to do that, otherwise I will go ahead and make you your own forum. That said I probably wouldn't trust me. Don't mind me, just trying to avoid a little work.

How many more players would it take to bring the ratio down to 15 provinces a player? Would it be an acceptable solution to reduce the province count that way as opposed to playing on a new map entirely?


Namad: I just logged out of myself to double triple quadruple check, and there is definitely no way a non-user can see the hidden forum. There are four forums on the site, and only members who are registered and given the proper permissions have access. Believe me I made sure before letting septimius give out the address publically.

[quantum_mechani]

20 prov/player is not bad, me and Lingchi are in a game where there's 60+ provinces per player, in a FFA game, 4 players on a large map,so this shouldn't be a major concern. As this is a team game, you can certainly coordinate with your team members if you wish to take on a more or less provinces, or play a supporting role, or whatever you like. This is certainly not micromanagment hell.
Just because there are other insane games out there with 20+ provs per players doesn't make it fun or a good idea. As for supporting roles with less provinces, that's just slightly less micromanagement with almost none of the fun.

As for coming to decision, feel free to start without me if you've got enough players, the settings just scare me as it stands.

What else scares you about the settings?

The vets should have an definate advantage with easy research and extended play (past turn 20). It was your own suggestion.

You guys have first nation choice, you may choose the nations generally banned in other games (such as Hinnom).

I shall keep the noob team as green as possible. You've got veto power to boot.

What else do you want? Come now. Will you not indulge me this time around? (as I have done last game), do it for your vet team, avenge your loss.

More prov doesn't necesarilly equal less fun, every player has their own preferences. It also means more income to support larger armies, and diversity of non-nation recruitment. 15 vs 20 is no big difference.

Perhaps I should rephrase, the setting don't scare me in the sense of 'impossible to win' so much as 'a nightmare to win (and maybe even to lose)'.

I realize you bent for the vet team last time, but the difference is with the small game settings the game was over very fast whether you liked it or not. With these settings, if you don't like them, you are stuck with them a very long time.

It's interesting you bring up non-national armies though, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I dislike giant games. After playing a lot of dominions, the non-national stuff gets extremely boring and familiar compared to the national (since the non national pops up every singe game).

Really though, as much as I would like more of a compromise map, I'm not trying to force anything, just saying I think I would regret joining as things stand. I'm sure there are other more flexible players to choose from.

As for more players vs small map, that would be better than huge map and few players, but I'm not sure it really solves the issue.

[namad]

i just wanted to join a cool sounding team game

i figured i might not qualify for either team, which seems to be the case... maybe what lingchih suggested would work? playing 5-9 or something and deeming the noob team too good? I'm definitely not "green" at all...


if you made it 5-20 and the 20players were using like pd50 and not scripting their mages or formations nor focusing on maximizing research the 20would still lose but you know... your probably right though ... maybe leaving me as a standby would be a good solution and only add me to one of the teams if your absolutely desperate to fill the ranks? maybe even then it might be a bad idea

[Septimius Severus]

Perhaps I should rephrase, the setting don't scare me in the sense of 'impossible to win' so much as 'a nightmare to win (and maybe even to lose)'.

I realize you bent for the vet team last time, but the difference is with the small game settings the game was over very fast whether you liked it or not. With these settings, if you don't like them, you are stuck with them a very long time.

It's interesting you bring up non-national armies though, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I dislike giant games. After playing a lot of dominions, the non-national stuff gets extremely boring and familiar compared to the national (since the non national pops up every singe game).

Really though, as much as I would like more of a compromise map, I'm not trying to force anything, just saying I think I would regret joining as things stand. I'm sure there are other more flexible players to choose from.

As for more players vs small map, that would be better than huge map and few players, but I'm not sure it really solves the issue.

Ironhawk brought up a good point, as this is something of a duel, there is no law that says you must grab every indie province, make your realm as large or small as you want, most players will be concentrating on those provinces between themselves and the enemy. Alas, it is your decision.

[Septimius Severus]

You just put me into noob team on the list on 1st page. Fun as that might be, I dont think I'd qualify. ;)

Any room in the more experienced end?

Whoops sorry about that atul, it is corrected.

[Septimius Severus]

i just wanted to join a cool sounding team game

i figured i might not qualify for either team, which seems to be the case... maybe what lingchih suggested would work? playing 5-9 or something and deeming the noob team too good? I'm definitely not "green" at all...


if you made it 5-20 and the 20players were using like pd50 and not scripting their mages or formations nor focusing on maximizing research the 20would still lose but you know... your probably right though ... maybe leaving me as a standby would be a good solution and only add me to one of the teams if your absolutely desperate to fill the ranks? maybe even then it might be a bad idea


I've moved you into the alternate side of the vets team. If they want you or need your in.

[Ironhawk]

Ok, I talked it over with QM for a while trying to find some kind of compromise and this is what I came up with. We play on Orania, the smaller of the two maps, with 5 vets (ling, atul, demon, qm, iron) and 9 noobs. I say 9 noobs here only to give more provs/player overall which is something that sept would like to see, not because I'm worried about numbers. Dont think anyone really minds 10, if that would be preferable. Anyway, that works out to something like 17 provs/player - seems a fair difference b/w qm and sept.

What do you think?

[Lavaere]

I like the Orania map, and random starts please. Make it more of a challange, though perhaps a NAP for maybe 6-12 turn. In case opposing players end up starting on each others doorstep. 9 vs 5 looks good, we'll just need a couple more players. Unless some of the alts join the noob side.

[TheDemon]

I don't really care what the settings are in terms of balance, but a high number of provs or provs/player makes for a lot of micro in the mid/endgame, which leads to longer turns and more players dropping or staleing. 20 per player is manageable however and the point about this being like a duel where there's no diplomacy and it's better to steal land from your enemy is a pretty good one. I'd be fine with either the default settings proposed in the OP or with Iron's compromise.

[Lingchih]

Sounds good to me Ironhawk. A nice compromise I think.


Ok, I talked it over with QM for a while trying to find some kind of compromise and this is what I came up with. We play on Orania, the smaller of the two maps, with 5 vets (ling, atul, demon, qm, iron) and 9 noobs. I say 9 noobs here only to give more provs/player overall which is something that sept would like to see, not because I'm worried about numbers. Dont think anyone really minds 10, if that would be preferable. Anyway, that works out to something like 17 provs/player - seems a fair difference b/w qm and sept.

What do you think?

[rdonj]

So lingchih, I see you joined the noob forum. Still waiting to see whether I'm creating a new forum or just adding an extra forum onto the forum for team noob.

[Lingchih]

Sorry, that was an accident. It really was.

Delete me please

[Lingchih]

OK, I've created a vets forum, but I'm not sure if we will use it, since it looks rather insecure to me. But it's there, and as I learn more about the security settings maybe I will feel confident about using it.

If so, I'll pm all the vets.

OK, I've figured out how to make it secure. I've set it up so only I can add new users. We should be good to go now.

[rdonj]

Glad to hear that's all sorted out. Now the teams just need to get ready!

[Lingchih]

OK, here is the url for the vets:

http://teamvet.forumotion.net/index.htm

Just register for the forum. It will send me an email asking if I want to allow you to enter the forum. When I confirm, you will be in.

I guess I should add a #6 to my sig. For serious post. This would be a #6.

[Lingchih]

I believe the Team Vet is final. Just need to get confirmation from you guys.

PM me vets. I need to get a final list together. Thanks.

[Septimius Severus]

OK, here is the url for the vets:

http://teamvet.forumotion.net/index.htm

Just register for the forum. It will send me an email asking if I want to allow you to enter the forum. When I confirm, you will be in.

I guess I should add a #6 to my sig. For serious post. This would be a #6.

Good job in getting the vet forum up and running. I've added the link to the main post.

[Septimius Severus]

I like the Orania map, and random starts please. Make it more of a challange, though perhaps a NAP for maybe 6-12 turn. In case opposing players end up starting on each others doorstep. 9 vs 5 looks good, we'll just need a couple more players. Unless some of the alts join the noob side.

I wouldn't do random starts. Too risky... I need control of placement to ensure team members end up near each other.

[Septimius Severus]

Ok, I talked it over with QM for a while trying to find some kind of compromise and this is what I came up with. We play on Orania, the smaller of the two maps, with 5 vets (ling, atul, demon, qm, iron) and 9 noobs. I say 9 noobs here only to give more provs/player overall which is something that sept would like to see, not because I'm worried about numbers. Dont think anyone really minds 10, if that would be preferable. Anyway, that works out to something like 17 provs/player - seems a fair difference b/w qm and sept.

What do you think?

You may have come up with a reasonable compromise, though we are a couple short on the noob side, even moving namad over and bringing grudgebringer in. You know how I like to have alternates especially for the larger team. I'll mull it over and while I give the map another look to see if it is something I can work with, whilst we see if we can get a player or two more.

As the noobs would be understrength, I may decide to nullify the vets first choice option (except for Lingchih) to compensate. We do need players with a decent attention span though, yes there may be some MM, that is an issue for the developers to take up, it is part and parcel of the game. You take the good with the bad.

I would like to keep the ratios straight if possible, though I prefer the 8 vs 4. Perhaps our vets will consider a 7 vs 5. No more players would be needed (without first choice of course).

[namad]

it's only been 3days since this thread was created if you give it time maybe you can recruit a bunch of really new players?

also if the vet team would be willing to have me play on their team i think it would defeat the purpose of the game to have me play on the noob team? I really wanted to play because the premise of the game sounds so cool but if me playing weakens that premise it'd be best for me not too... although i do feel like i would do a lot worse if the irc guys just ignored me for a bit ;)

[Septimius Severus]

Disregard that 7:5 proposal, it would be too lopsided.

[TheDemon]

10:5 on Orania seems fairest to me. That keeps the 2 to 1 odds, and the provs per player are 17.2 if you only count land, or 18.6 if you include water.

[Septimius Severus]

it's only been 3days since this thread was created if you give it time maybe you can recruit a bunch of really new players?

Namad has a point, there is nothing stopping us from going for the larger 16:8 on the larger map provided enough players sign up. Who knows.

It is important for all the vets to think of this series of games as a public service for new players 'pro bonum publicum'
. As vets, you have both a duty and responsiblity to educate fresh young noob minds and put your personal preferences behind you, while at the same time not seeking to shield them inordinately from the harsh realities of the game.

I thank all the vets who have participated or will participate in the future. Keeping this in mind, I charge you all to seek out fellow vets and noobs alike, and urge them to join, stressing the selflessness and nobility of our cause.

[atul]

Heh, noble thoughts.

But, in this particular case, I think you're misinterpreting personal preference and hard-earned experience. One of the things that people learn "through the heel" as us Finns say is that too big maps aren't fun on the long term. People get easily overwhelmed by the size of their empires. I know, having had more than 100 provinces in one game. It isn't a preference or weakness of mind, it's something that happens when you cross some threshold.

Rules of thumb are good to have: 15 provs per player -> big game; less than 10 -> crowded. 20 per player is huger than Cartman's behind. Just be warned.

[quantum_mechani]

I'd also point out that I'd happily perform this 'public service' in two 4vs8 small sized map games than a crazy 16vs8 giant map game, both of which serve the same number of newbs. And it would probably be a more useful service anyway, on that big of a map many players might not even end up fighting until it was already at the point of dropping tarts on their heads (experiencing that is all well and good but it hardly gives you a good idea how to play the majority of the game).

But philosophical differences aside, I think Ironhawk's compromise is a good one. If we end up going with that I'd tentatively claim Oceania.

[archaeolept]

do not let noobs determine size of map :p

Orania is about the maximum size for non insane people.

9 vs 5 would be good as two of the nubs at least are fairly experienced. But 10 would be more challenging :D

[Ironhawk]

it's only been 3days since this thread was created if you give it time maybe you can recruit a bunch of really new players?

In my experience of hosting games, you get most of your players in the first couple of days. If you wait longer than that, you start losing players who have already signed up. If you need to bolster the noob team numbers, then rather than waiting, you should just PM people you know or have played with them and aske them personally to join.

[Micah]

Just to chime in: Team games do allow substantially larger maps since no one player is having to manage everything. I generally find 50 provinces about the threshold of "fun" for me. Assuming the game would end if the vets get a bit more than half the map that would give 50 provs * 4 players / 50% of the map = 400 provs maximum. Of course if you disagree with the 50 prov number it changes things, but the point is team games cut down the amount of MM each player has to do by a lot. I'm also not playing this round, so I don't get a vote. =)

[Illuminated One]

Just because there are other insane games out there with 20+ provs per players doesn't make it fun or a good idea. As for supporting roles with less provinces, that's just slightly less micromanagement with almost none of the fun.

Hmm, I wouldn't say that it's no fun (unless you play I will just do what is asked forge whore). You wouldn't participate in the battles as much which maybe defeats the purpose of playing against the vets. On the other hand it doesn't mean that you'd never see any action just that it's less and with spies you can always play fly on the wall. :)
And if you'd use your resources to help teamplayers I'd say for the later game it would be much less micro because someone else would have to worry about managing that which you created.
I wouldn't mind I don't think I can swallow a complete intense game at the moment but I wouldn't want to miss the chance of playing against the vets.

@Septimius Severus

Hmm, maybe I'm not green enough (2 finished games, 1 at turn 60) so if you don't think I should play or could reliably get a supportive position just kick me out. :D

[Septimius Severus]

Just to chime in: Team games do allow substantially larger maps since no one player is having to manage everything. I generally find 50 provinces about the threshold of "fun" for me. Assuming the game would end if the vets get a bit more than half the map that would give 50 provs * 4 players / 50% of the map = 400 provs maximum. Of course if you disagree with the 50 prov number it changes things, but the point is team games cut down the amount of MM each player has to do by a lot. I'm also not playing this round, so I don't get a vote. =)

I agree with Micah and illuminated one. Heh. :) Though I'd wish you would join. I wouldn't mind having 8 the best in the game, actually, that was the idea.

[Septimius Severus]

In my experience of hosting games, you get most of your players in the first couple of days. If you wait longer than that, you start losing players who have already signed up. If you need to bolster the noob team numbers, then rather than waiting, you should just PM people you know or have played with them and aske them personally to join.

Generally, I agree, unless some games happen to let out when your's is starting up. So get those invites going out. Heh. :)

[darloth]

I think I'm still green enough, you can add me to the noob side if you're still looking for players. The last game was a fun thing to check every day or so, and I did indeed learn some tactics both obvious and less obvious from the last one. Thanks.

[Ironhawk]

So we are good to go now, right? With darloth signed up to noobs we can pull GrudgeBringer off the alts list and we are up to 9.

[Lingchih]

Let's get it started! I'm going on vacation in May, and I would like to have some turns done by then.

[Septimius Severus]

I think I'm still green enough, you can add me to the noob side if you're still looking for players. The last game was a fun thing to check every day or so, and I did indeed learn some tactics both obvious and less obvious from the last one. Thanks.

Welcome back darloth.

[Septimius Severus]

So we are good to go now, right? With darloth signed up to noobs we can pull GrudgeBringer off the alts list and we are up to 9.

Apparently there is a shortage of green noobs theses days. GrudgBringer is sort of noobish, not totally green I beleive.
Keep in mind I want at least 1 alternate on board for each team, I don't want to have to go hunting for them later on.

In any case, we will do one of these three, whichever comes first. Let us all agree.

1. We stick to the original design 8 vs 4, Grudgebringer remains an alternate and the vets drop 1 (decide amongst yourself who is the least experienced, and we'll move him to alternate status).

2. I'll agree to Ironhawk's compromise, 9vs5, provided we have enough noobs and an alternate(s), however, I will not give vets first choice of nations in this scenario.

3. We do 10vs5, keeping the ratio's straight, the vets retain first choice.

Seems we need a couple of more noobs for options 2 and 3, so vets if you want to begin now, we do option 1, otherwise lets send out those invites for noobs. Fair enough? I must protect the interests of the noobs here.

[rdonj]

I think the best solution for now would be to have grudgebringer come in and take a noob slot. He doesn't seem to be following the thread though so he may need some prompting.

[Septimius Severus]

I think the best solution for now would be to have grudgebringer come in and take a noob slot. He doesn't seem to be following the thread though so he may need some prompting.

Grudgebringer prefers to remain as an alternate right now. He's in 4 games right now. If the vets want to begin at once, option 1 is the way to go. (Note: I chose the team size for a reason, it is easier for me to place players, I can place the vets in the cardinal directions with exactly two noobs in opposition.)

Personally being in more than 2 or 3, is pushing it, but it depends on your available time and the settings of the game.

[Stretch]

I've played one MA MP game to completion and am in the middle of one LA MP game now. I'm pretty green, got another noob slot?

[Septimius Severus]

I've played one MA MP game to completion and am in the middle of one LA MP game now. I'm pretty green, got another noob slot?

Sure, we can never have enough fresh green noobs. Tell your friends. Well, it won't be long now.

[Jachra]

I'd like a spot on the Noobs team, if'n ya please.

[Lingchih]

Sounds like we are good to go then.

[Lingchih]

CBM 1.4.1 C,correct? I'm about to make a new Mysteria pretender.

[P3D]

If you need noobs, I could try to get my fourth game running (hopefully will have time to manage all of them)

[Septimius Severus]

Jachra, welcome back, as a returning alternate you and the vets will be choosing nations first.

P3D, your in as well, though I would caution about getting into too many games at once. (depends on the settings, slowpace games and long playing games are different). If your sure you'll be able to commit, then I'd like you in the starting roster, if not then as an alternate.

I'd like to refine the teams a bit if possible in keeping with the spirit (green noobs vs best of the best).

Illuminated one, would you mind taking an alternate slot and switch places with P3D?

Lingchih, can you refine your team (maybe get Zeldor in and ask one of less experienced vets to go to alternate)?

I guess it is a go then, 10 vs 5 on Orania (God help us! I hope I can place everyone properly).

Jachra and vets, please choose your nations if you've not already done so (1 water nation max).

The rest of the noobs after them.

I will pick last.

We will be using 1.41c (attachment on main post) unless QM has something else ready to go before pretender uploads.

Noobs and Vets check in and signup to your respective forums (links are on main post).

[rdonj]

Actually the vet team looks pretty well-stacked, the only one I don't know is TheDemon, but everyone else I can say for sure is a very skilled player.

[namad]

thedemon plays on SA but hangs out in our IRC plenty....

so he is an unknown factor that is a veteran by some standards but unknown in our world

[Lingchih]

Zeldor knows he is first alternate. Other than that, we are ready to go. In fact, I just built a brand new Mysteria for the game tonite.

[Lingchih]

Kick it off Sept!

And keep the team posts to a minimum of victory reports on the teamvet forum. I just noticed that anyone can view it, though not post to it. So the security is pretty lax. We'll keep the top secret stuff to IRC.

[Lingchih]

Lingchih, can you refine your team (maybe get Zeldor in and ask one of less experienced vets to go to alternate)?


Sept, don't you know we hate to lose? That last loss ripped everyone's heart out. I will not cripple this team. We are coming with all our might. We will not lose again. You guys want a lesson? The lesson is coming.

That said, Zeldor is still first alternate.

[rdonj]

Okay, since it looks like all the noobs are selected and the game will be starting shortly, it's time to get you all signed up for the team noob forum. I'm going to change the way signingup will be handled as it just didn't really work last time.

This time around I will just have people register, they'll be automatically accepted by the forum. Then I'll have them pm me here with their name on the other forum, to make sure they're who they say they are, then I'll accept them into the Team Noob user group so they can see the strategic command forum. So please register before the game actually starts. If you do not you will miss out on the pre-game discussion stage, which is fairly important for team noob.

So to recap: 1) Register for the forum here (http://teamnoob.forumotion.net/). 2) On this forum, pm me with the username you chose for the other site. Preferably it will be the same username you are using here. 3) Wait for me to move you into the user group. I will tell you when this is done via a pm on this forum, unless you say you want to be notified in some other manner. 4) Tell me if for any reason something goes wrong, what went wrong, and how it went wrong and I will fix it as quickly as possible. I will then probably send you a pm telling you that it was fixed, or let you know in some other fashion.

If you played in the last noobs vs vets game and have an account on the other forum already you will not have to do any of that, as I have not deleted any users. So if you can't see the strategy forum by the end of tomorrow, give me a nudge and I'll fix that up for you.

[rdonj]

Lingchih, it's completely possible to make it secure, there are other ways to do it than I have been doing it also, I'm just doing it the way I am because it's more security for less work for me. As long as you cannot see 4 forums on the team noob website, I can guarantee you it works. But if you're not that worried about it it's probably not a big deal :). If you are interested though I am willing to help you get it working.

[atul]

Please (help) make the vet forum secure. The time zone separation between players is quite huge (I believe at least 10 hours between me and qm) so a forum could be useful.

[quantum_mechani]

(1 water nation max).
Is that per team or total?

[atul]

As Zeldor went to a substitute status, I'd like to switch my nation pick to Hinnom.

[rdonj]

I sent lingchih a pm, I think he has what he needs to get your forum secure now.

[rdonj]

As far as I can tell everyone who was in the first team and is playing again is able to see the forum.

Also, I am NOT moving anyone in until they verify that they signed up this time. For example, an illuminated one has registered, but I am not putting this user into the proper user group unless I hear from illuminated one here that they and the illuminated one on the other forum are the same person.

[Zeldor]

I'd advice not to allow any water nations, especially in EA, when they won't fight at all. If it's 1 water nation per team it means vets get the water and use it just to transfer funds to land. EA water nations are not really amphibious.

But well, I'm just an alternate :)

[Ironhawk]

Lets not give away all the strats now, shall we Zeldor? :)

[rdonj]

If you don't want to allow water nations it might be best to go the deadly seas route, ea has a number of non-water nations with recruitable ambhipbious units.

[Illuminated One]

Also, I am NOT moving anyone in until they verify that they signed up this time. For example, an illuminated one has registered, but I am not putting this user into the proper user group unless I hear from illuminated one here that they and the illuminated one on the other forum are the same person.

Lol. Yeah, that was me.

[TheDemon]

Jachra and vets, please choose your nations if you've not already done so (1 water nation max).

Caelum please.

[rdonj]

Also, I am NOT moving anyone in until they verify that they signed up this time. For example, an illuminated one has registered, but I am not putting this user into the proper user group unless I hear from illuminated one here that they and the illuminated one on the other forum are the same person.

Lol. Yeah, that was me.

Added.

[Lingchih]

OK, with rdonj's help, I believe I have made the forum secure. Thanks very much rdonj! Would someone like to try and see it? to see if I did it correctly? Thanks.

[rdonj]

I clicked on the link to your forum on the first page of the thread - it wants me to log in now to see anything. So it seems pretty well secure. Post away!

[Lingchih]

Due to objections from the other vets, I will not be playing Pan again.

I choose Niefelheim. My pretender, whatever it is, will still be named Mysteria (or Mysterio). It will be the ancient ancestor of the nefarious Mysteria from the first game.

[Septimius Severus]

(1 water nation max).
Is that per team or total?

1 water nation total. I've no problem with QM keeping Oceania as I don't ban any nations as a rule. If they are not really amphibious, that's fine, it'll keep QM out of our hair.

I've placed starting positions for 14 land nations and 1 water nation. Whew!
As I feared, due to density, 1 noob will be centrally placed (still can have access but it will require coordination), more of a supporting position. Who was it that wanted a supporting role?

TheDemon (darn, I was going to take Caelum, can I bribe you to give it up)?

Ironhawk and Jachra choose nations, rest of the noobs follow.

Well it looks like we noobs shall be hard pressed this time around, with PYG, Aristander, and the others gone, but we shall see, never thought we'd win that first one to be honest. Heh. But coordination and communication can overcome alot. :)

[Septimius Severus]

Due to objections from the other vets, I will not be playing Pan again.

I choose Niefelheim. My pretender, whatever it is, will still be named Mysteria (or Mysterio). It will be the ancient ancestor of the nefarious Mysteria from the first game.

Ancient ancestor? Come on... The whole game revolves around that whore. Oh well, how shall I reword the intro on the main post to reflect the escape of Mysteria and her ancient ancestor?

Mysteria having narrowly escaped ... summons her ancient ancestor for revenge? Sound good? I'll leave it to you.

[Illuminated One]

As I feared, due to density, 1 noob will be centrally placed (still can have access but it will require coordination), more of a supporting position. Who was it that wanted a supporting role?

Me.

[Zeldor]

Forums look quite secure, I doubt anyone would try anything anyway, especially some more advanced things. At least it's not outdated phpBB that every 11 year old could hack :)

Anyway - go go vets!

[Septimius Severus]

Forums look quite secure, I doubt anyone would try anything anyway, especially some more advanced things. At least it's not outdated phpBB that every 11 year old could hack :)

Anyway - go go vets!

It's good you got your forum secure. Now let me in, I promise not to tell. :)

I see you vets are taking full advantage of first choice, Hinnom, Niefelhiem, plus you'll control the seas. Perhaps you will have a chance at avenging your humiliating defeat afterall.

[Septimius Severus]

As I feared, due to density, 1 noob will be centrally placed (still can have access but it will require coordination), more of a supporting position. Who was it that wanted a supporting role?

Me.

Ok, then. Though, as one of our more experienced vets, I'd prefer to have you on the front, but whatever makes you happy.

[Ironhawk]

Ironhawk and Jachra choose nations, rest of the noobs follow.

Only a little bit longer. We have 4/5 nations picked for the vets team. Mine is the only one still under debate. We will have a selection by tonight...

[rdonj]

I'm not sure giving the vet team the only water nation is a good idea. I would say if you're going to have only one water nation, make it a noob. Either that or the noob team had better have a couple of amphibious nations. Otherwise you are just asking for it :P

[Septimius Severus]

I'm not sure giving the vet team the only water nation is a good idea. I would say if you're going to have only one water nation, make it a noob. Either that or the noob team had better have a couple of amphibious nations. Otherwise you are just asking for it :P

I generally agree with you, it would mean though not fully honoring my promise and if EA Oceania has few amphibious troops, perhaps it won't be that bad. Name some amphibious nations for us, while your at it, me being a noob I don't know nuthin....

If QM doesn't take a water nation, he'll endup in a centralized supporting role on land amongst the other vets, as space is at a premium in the both areas. :)

[Septimius Severus]

Due to objections from the other vets, I will not be playing Pan again.

I choose Niefelheim. My pretender, whatever it is, will still be named Mysteria (or Mysterio). It will be the ancient ancestor of the nefarious Mysteria from the first game.

Ancient ancestor? Come on... The whole game revolves around that whore. Oh well, how shall I reword the intro on the main post to reflect the escape of Mysteria and her ancient ancestor?

Mysteria having narrowly escaped ... summons her ancient ancestor for revenge? Sound good? I'll leave it to you.

I forgot we were going back in time, still I'll leave it to you to come up with a short quick shallow backstory. Heh. :)

[atul]

Name some amphibious nations for us, while your at it, me being a noob I don't know nuthin....

Fomoria and Agartha both have amphibious giants, and there are many death-heavy nations that don't have much trouble getting underwater with easy research. Having the single water nation is a bonus, but it won't be quiet in the lake. Oh, and I think Oceania was called on assumption that you wouldn't restrict water nations to one.

And I wouldn't yet fret too much about us calling strong nations, EA has plenty of those and it's still 2-to-1 uphill fight...

[Lavaere]

is there enough water for a water nation on each side

well since vets are still choosing, I'll give my two choices. I'll be either Tien Chi or Yomi

[Ironhawk]

I CHOOSE YOMI!!!

Hehehe, just kidding Lavaere ;)

[Lingchih]

Yes, we are going back in time. Mysterio will be the ancient pretender god that created Mysteria. When he left this world, Mysteria eventually chose to try and take his position as the pancreator.

(heh, yeah it's kind of weak. But don't blame me. I would have played her again. The other vets vetoed me).



Due to objections from the other vets, I will not be playing Pan again.

I choose Niefelheim. My pretender, whatever it is, will still be named Mysteria (or Mysterio). It will be the ancient ancestor of the nefarious Mysteria from the first game.

Ancient ancestor? Come on... The whole game revolves around that whore. Oh well, how shall I reword the intro on the main post to reflect the escape of Mysteria and her ancient ancestor?

Mysteria having narrowly escaped ... summons her ancient ancestor for revenge? Sound good? I'll leave it to you.

I forgot we were going back in time, still I'll leave it to you to come up with a short quick shallow backstory. Heh. :)

[Lingchih]

I believe the orignal Medusa was created by Zeus? Correct? So this would seem thematical.

[Ironhawk]

I apologize for the delay - the debate is over and the Vet team has finally settled on nation picks. They are as follows...

Atul: Atlantis
Quantum Mechani: Hinnom
TheDemon: Caelum
Lingchih: Neifelheim
Ironhawk: Helheim

With one caveat - our choice of Atlantis is based on us being the only water nation. If this changes and the noobs get a water nation too we reserve the right to switch out our water nation for a different choice.

[LumenPlacidum]

Great, now we can pick our nations. I think Agartha could be fun. At least I'll definitely have better mages than LA Ulm from last game...

[P3D]

Honestly, being on Standby/alternate is better for me unless I finish some of my games.

[Septimius Severus]

Honestly, being on Standby/alternate is better for me unless I finish some of my games.

That's fine. Be ready though, we may need you at some point.

[Septimius Severus]

Yes, we are going back in time. Mysterio will be the ancient pretender god that created Mysteria. When he left this world, Mysteria eventually chose to try and take his position as the pancreator.

(heh, yeah it's kind of weak. But don't blame me. I would have played her again. The other vets vetoed me).

But how does Mysteria get her revenge in the early age. She must have somehow invoked the spirit of her ancestor Mysterio (who happens to belong to another nation :confused: after she fled, and mysterio then called us back into that age. Did you mean Pantokrator? :D

[rdonj]

I don't know, pancreator is a pretty apt description of mysteria....

[Septimius Severus]

is there enough water for a water nation on each side

well since vets are still choosing, I'll give my two choices. I'll be either Tien Chi or Yomi

Was only planning on one water nation (there's only 20 water provinces), adding another one, would mean a tough early fight for our noob.

As it stands I think I shall enact a Non Agression Pact for the first 10/15/20 turns, whatever is aggreeable to both teams.

Let me know which nation.

[atul]

Actually it's her time-travelling son who later on meets her mother and becomes her father. But don't tell anyone, she's a bit embarassed with the whole messing up the timeline ordeal.

[TheDemon]

You could say that her ancestor scryed into the future and found out his descendant lost, so he decided to take revenge on the ones who defeated her in the past. Or something.

[Septimius Severus]

You could say that her ancestor scryed into the future and found out his descendant lost, so he decided to take revenge on the ones who defeated her in the past. Or something.

I suppose so. Bah. I'd rather Ling just stick with Pan. So much simpler.

[TheDemon]

As it stands I think I shall enact a Non Agression Pact for the first 10/15/20 turns, whatever is aggreeable to both teams.

When you say NAP do you mean NAP for the whole map? And if so what purpose would it serve?

[viccio]

I chose Abyssia

[Illuminated One]

When you say NAP do you mean NAP for the whole map? And if so what purpose would it serve?

I think as the game focuses on magic a short NAP will give the noobs time to research something before Hinnom/Niefel stomps over their defenseless troops. ;)

But how does Mysteria get her revenge in the early age. She must have somehow invoked the spirit of her ancestor Mysterio (who happens to belong to another nation after she fled, and mysterio then called us back into that age. Did you mean Pantokrator?

I don't know does it have to be revenge? You could say that the events here gave rise to Mysteria in the first place or maybe made her evil.
Or you could go along Hindu myth and they that this is not before but after the last game. It's just that the last aeon has ended and in the new aeon everything starts anew with the early age.

[TheDemon]

When you say NAP do you mean NAP for the whole map? And if so what purpose would it serve?

I think as the game focuses on magic a short NAP will give the noobs time to research something before Hinnom/Niefel stomps over their defenseless troops. ;)

Sure, it will give time for research, but it will also mean the vets will snap up all the indies quicker than you can blink if they aren't pressured early. A 10 turn NAP will basically eliminate the noob's numbers advantage. It's not like research will be faster or slower with an NAP in effect, and it's pretty much impossible to kill someone in the first 10 turns, so a 10-turn research counter can be reached no matter what the NAP conditions are.

I mean, I'll play under a 10 turn NAP without complaints, but enact one at your peril.

[Ironhawk]

Last night the vets got together and made a list of all the nations we expected the noobs to pick. I'm curiuos to see how close we come to reality!

[LumenPlacidum]

Last night the vets got together and made a list of all the nations we expected the noobs to pick. I'm curiuos to see how close we come to reality!

Make sure you share that with us once we determine what our final nations are. I know I'm curious to know how accurate it will be and what the reasons are for your choices.

[Septimius Severus]

Sure, it will give time for research, but it will also mean the vets will snap up all the indies quicker than you can blink if they aren't pressured early. A 10 turn NAP will basically eliminate the noob's numbers advantage. It's not like research will be faster or slower with an NAP in effect, and it's pretty much impossible to kill someone in the first 10 turns, so a 10-turn research counter can be reached no matter what the NAP conditions are.

Well, Illuminated One is correct on the intention of the NAP (of course it would be world-wide). The way I've placed the land nations, it will be at least 10 turns (I estimate) before the vets come into contact with us anyway. The main purpose of the NAP is keep the vet water nation from getting hostile early on, and to allow some research and development. So the idea that if there is no pressure early on the vets will run riot is a moot point. I would recommend at least a 10 turn NAP, however, 15 might be better. I'm sure if we take a vote it'd probably go along team lines, and the noobs might win as we've more votes.

[quantum_mechani]

I think it's kind of ironic that the newbs keep pushing so hard for settings that cripple them. I have no problem with the NAP, whatever length, but I totally agree it's to the vets strong advantage.

[Ironhawk]

Less talk about game settings, more nation picks

[llamabeast]

I wouldn't think the NAP would be a good idea myself, either.

[rdonj]

Less talk about game settings, more nation picks

The noob team is doing some of this discussion on the other forum.

However, some of them are still not signed up (one is, but not properly). So here is a list of everyone on the noob team that is currently signed up and has gone through proper verification. If you are not on this list, I strongly suggest that you sign up or else you will miss a lot of information.

1. Septimius Severus
2. Darloth
3. Illuminated One
4. Jachra
5. Lavaere
6. LumenPlacidum
7. Stretch

[TheDemon]

Well, Illuminated One is correct on the intention of the NAP (of course it would be world-wide). The way I've placed the land nations, it will be at least 10 turns (I estimate) before the vets come into contact with us anyway. The main purpose of the NAP is keep the vet water nation from getting hostile early on, and to allow some research and development. So the idea that if there is no pressure early on the vets will run riot is a moot point. I would recommend at least a 10 turn NAP, however, 15 might be better. I'm sure if we take a vote it'd probably go along team lines, and the noobs might win as we've more votes.

I'm fine with any length NAP, but please think it over. A NAP doesn't help with either of those objectives. Under a NAP, the water nation can snatch up land indeps without fear of being driven back into the water, making it more agressive than with no NAP. Research will happen at the same pace whether there is a NAP in place or not.

[Lingchih]

I'm not OK with any turn NAP with the Noobs. It defeats the spirit of the game. As soon as I see a Noob nation, I will attack it.

And yes, the Mysteria thing is confusing. Just go with it. The other vets won't let me play Pan, so I have to go with Nief.

[Lingchih]

removed

[Septimius Severus]

I'm fine with any length NAP, but please think it over. A NAP doesn't help with either of those objectives. Under a NAP, the water nation can snatch up land indeps without fear of being driven back into the water, making it more agressive than with no NAP. Research will happen at the same pace whether there is a NAP in place or not.

Conversly, with a NAP land nations may snatch up water provinces without fear of being driven back onto land. We (noobs) shall of course, think it over.

This game is/was intended obviously not to be a repeat of the rush type game in close quarters we had the first time around which proved nothing except that 2:1 will always win in that situation.

Should we institute an NAP I expect compliance from all.

[Septimius Severus]

Less talk about game settings, more nation picks

The noob team is doing some of this discussion on the other forum.

However, some of them are still not signed up (one is, but not properly). So here is a list of everyone on the noob team that is currently signed up and has gone through proper verification. If you are not on this list, I strongly suggest that you sign up or else you will miss a lot of information.

1. Septimius Severus
2. Darloth
3. Illuminated One
4. Jachra
5. Lavaere
6. LumenPlacidum
7. Stretch

I'll PM those who have yet to join, as I anticipated we may have lost one or two since inception.

Let's get those nation selections going as soon as possible (after any approriate discussion of course on the noob forum :)).

I hope to start pretender uploads soon.

[Lavaere]

to let everyone know, I have chosen Lanka.
so vets was that on your list of chosen nations

[Ossa]

I'd choose Sauromatae then

[Ironhawk]

We'll show our picks once the selection is done :)

[Unoptimized]

Heya! I hear there is room for another new fellow? :)

[alansmithee]

I'll take Formoria

[Septimius Severus]

Heya! I hear there is room for another new fellow? :)

Hello my green friend. We are currently awaiting nation choices for the rest of the noob team starting line-up. Currently we are at capacity, however, should someone drop or cease communication, or decide to go to standby status, you'll be in.

Right now, I'd love to have you as an alternate/standy. That means, you'll be called upon to sub either temp or permanently should the noob team find itself at less than full strength during the game.

Welcome aboard.

[Septimius Severus]

Lingchih, while we are waiting for the last few picks, how bout giving us some teaser info on your incredibly mysterious pretender build?

Will it be Mysterio or Mysteria? If not a gorgon, then what?

Tell us (especially the noob team) more!

Inquiring minds want to know. :)

[Ironhawk]

Will it be Mysterio or Mysteria? If not a gorgon, then what?

Tell us (especially the noob team) more!

Ha! Nice try to bait info out of us, Sept. However, you won't get any details about our builds until you face them on the battlefield. Looking forward to seeing you then!

[atul]

Actually Lingchih's build is so seeeecreeet even we don't know. This just to minimize all possible leaks.

Btw, are starting locations public knowledge?

[darloth]

Put me down for C'tis please. We'll see if I can pull it off. For the peanut gallery, I was originally going for Arco or Vanheim, but I changed my mind.

[Lavaere]

whats a good size for making these battle 3vs6 or 4vs8 or something else. and around how many regions per nation
because I was thinking of reinstalling Age of Wonders for some map making. or if I'm feeling adventurous CC2 and make a couple maps

[rdonj]

Most mp games tend to be around 15 provinces per nation, from what I gather. Usually people don't like playing with more provinces than that. So I would say probably between 12-15 provinces player.

[Lingchih]

Actually Lingchih's build is so seeeecreeet even we don't know. This just to minimize all possible leaks.

Btw, are starting locations public knowledge?

Actually Atul, my build is so secret even I do not know it. I had my mind wiped right after I made it.

[namad]

for the nation you've been forced to play there isn't a lot of options in terms of creative pretender design... as far as i know there are three possible chasis with very little difference between them, eh?

[Stretch]

Vanheim for me!

[Septimius Severus]

Actually Atul, my build is so secret even I do not know it. I had my mind wiped right after I made it.

I'll settle for knowing whether it will be Mysterio or Mysteria for now. If the former, I may change the name of the game to Mysterio's Revenge to be a bit more acurate.

[Septimius Severus]

Btw, are starting locations public knowledge?

Starting locations are not public knowledge at this point, and probably will never be. However, if your interested in your team's starting locations (once everyone has picked and I've placed individual nations) for planning purposes, I can PM them to you or one of the vets.

[Septimius Severus]

We are awaiting offical nation selections on this thread for Illuminated One, Jachra, and of course myself. Then we shall begin. If QM, has released another version of CBM we'll use that, I don't see any 1.44 yet though.

After some consultation with my noob colleagues, I think it best to impose a 10 turn NAP, which should be agreeable to the vets as well.

[Lingchih]

The new pretender is Mysterio. He is, of course, the pretender sent back through time to establish the reign of Mysteria. I know it sounds confusing. Just read Hyperion, by Dan Simmons. Then it will all make sense.

[atul]

After reading Hyperion nothing will ever make sense anymore.

As to personal starting location, yes it would be nice to know. After all, we plan to take over the world. As we do every friday.

[Ironhawk]

We are awaiting offical nation selections on this thread for Illuminated One, Jachra, and of course myself. Then we shall begin.

Put the lash to these guys! Its time to get the game rolling.


I have no objection to a 10-turn nap, I dont think it will significantly effect the game.

[Septimius Severus]

I've created the game on Llamaserver for those of you who wish to upload your pretenders (created via CBM 1.41C, file can be found attached to the main post). I'll change the map when we have all locations in.

Mysterio's revenge it shall be.

[Jachra]

T'ien Ch'i is my choice.

[Illuminated One]

I think I'll take Mictlan.

[Ironhawk]

Wooo - only sept is unannounced now.

I'll upload my pretender tonight or tomorrow morning

[Lavaere]

It's saying Desert Eye for the map. And you write a long enough name.

Also, lets go Habaek, the Water God.

[Septimius Severus]

Looks like we are set to go then, I'll update the map, place nations, and pm team locations tommorow. Pretender uploading begins. Good luck to both teams.

[Septimius Severus]

The new pretender is Mysterio. He is, of course, the pretender sent back through time to establish the reign of Mysteria. I know it sounds confusing. Just read Hyperion, by Dan Simmons. Then it will all make sense.

Yes, though I like Atul's suggestion of him scrying into the future, this version is more dramatic (if not oddly familiar):

Mysterio, the only man who can withstand the gaze of a gorgon, happening upon the mortally wounded Mysteria who lay dying on the battlefield after the defeat of her veteran pretender god allies, vows to avenge her defeat and restore her to life. Using arcane magicks, Mysterio travels back into time to detroy the ancestors of the noob pretender gods and their armies to ensure that they will never be born and thereby prevent the death of his beloved consort Mysteria.

[atul]

No that wasn't my take. Not enough greek tragedy "I'm your father" stuff in scrying.

But, what's your nation pick, Sept?

[rdonj]

I see he's just now put a question mark down for his nation pick, so I guess even he doesn't know!

[Septimius Severus]

No that wasn't my take. Not enough greek tragedy "I'm your father" stuff in scrying.

Edit my last post: Actually, consort(husband)/half-brother of Mysteria is what I was aiming at. I'll change it.

If you or Lingchih can come up with a better paragraph soon we will use that (assuming you both agree) :)

[Lingchih]

Hey, that's really good Sept. I like the backstory. It fits very well.

Now make your damn nation pick. And let's get this thing rolling. I am dying to kill you all.

[Septimius Severus]

Now make your damn nation pick. And let's get this thing rolling. I am dying to kill you all.

You needn't wait for me to upload your pretender my son.

I'll go with Ermor, don't see anything else I like.

[Ironhawk]

Helheim pretender up!

[alansmithee]

So what nations did you expect us to take?

[Lingchih]

Let's get it started. All pretenders should be in by Monday. It's the weekend folks, what else do you have to do?

Neifelheim pretender is in.

[Ironhawk]

We all had slightly different takes, but the consensus was that you would pick these:

Abysia
Formoria
Agartha
Mictlan
Sauro
Ulm
Van
Yomi

And then each of us in particular thought you would additionally, pick these:

Ironhawk: Tien Chi, Tir Na Nog
TheDemon: Tien Chi, Arco
Quantum: Lanka, Tir Na Nog

So, looking at what you did end up picking we had about a 70% accuracy rate.

[quantum_mechani]

So, looking at what you did end up picking we had about a 70% accuracy rate.That's a bit misleading, considering how few nations available were not on our list. ;)

However, the whole exercise was probably a bit silly in the first place, since people were picking based on what they felt like playing, and we were guessing what would have been most optimal.

[Lavaere]

woohoo I'm an additional

[Lingchih]

Umm, upload pretenders time???

[alansmithee]

I'm surprised you had Ulm, Agartha, Van, Abysia, and Yomi ahead of Lanka. I'd think Lanka is easily better than those nations.

[Ironhawk]

Ulm was a big favorite pick as team-forger.


Yeah for real - whats the holdup on pretender uploads?

[rdonj]

If I had been playing in this game, I would have taken either Yomi or Marverni :D. I think both would have been more or less ideal choices for this game.

Also, only 4 pretenders uploaded is surprisingly low. Come on guys, it's the weekend, this is the best time to do this.

[Lavaere]

well I thought we were suppose to play Orania, and last I looked it said Desert Eye

[Septimius Severus]

well I thought we were suppose to play Orania, and last I looked it said Desert Eye

The map has been updated. But that doesn't really matter. I used the old map just to get the game open and let people start uploading their pretenders.

I think I'll upload my pretender now, in case my Internet goes out at home.

[Ironhawk]

Speaking for the Vets team, we would like to request a new starting position for our water nation. It is not reasonable to place it in a position where it effectively has only two connecting provinces for resource purposes. Don't misunderstand, we understand that as the sole water nation in the game, it may follow that Atlantis gets a poorer start. But two provs is just not acceptable. And if you add onto that the fact that his position makes it a real possibility that he could be dominion-killed by his teammates it just goes beyond the bounds of fairness.

[Septimius Severus]

Speaking for the Vets team, we would like to request a new starting position for our water nation. It is not reasonable to place it in a position where it effectively has only two connecting provinces for resource purposes. Don't misunderstand, we understand that as the sole water nation in the game, it may follow that Atlantis gets a poorer start. But two provs is just not acceptable. And if you add onto that the fact that his position makes it a real possibility that he could be dominion-killed by his teammates it just goes beyond the bounds of fairness.

There were few options with regard to placing the water nation that did not place them too close for my comfort to the noobs. The few that did, did not have many neighbors either. The water nation was placed primarily to forstall any hostile action from them,and as they are the wildcard in the game, being able to attack anywhere at will (whereas the land nations are far enough apart to prevent this). Hence, the NAP.

At this point, rather than causing more delays, I'd prefer that you make the best of it understanding that others also have less than ideal placement. I didn't think it a big deal really. However, I'll take a second look and see if there is any other possible place that suits us both, as I don't want any accusations of unfairness and want everyone to be happy. If it turns out, I see none, I'll give Atul a choice of a centralized (supporting role) starting position on land as an alternative. Though once again, I'd prefer not to have to re-up another map. Atul, does have the sea to himself, and is a vet afterall.

[Ironhawk]

And as I said before, we understand that you want to give the water nation a weak placement. There is no objection to that. But two connecting provinces? Its crazy - I mean, would you be ok with only two connecting provs to your cap? Crippled resources aside, what if they were both knights or something?

Yeah please do take another look. Its not a total deal-breaker to not have this but it does feel disproportionate to the advantage of a single water nation.

[TheDemon]

Water castles don't draw resources from surrounding land provinces, nor do land castles draw from water. To put the problem in perspective, in most games provs with only 2 resource connections are set no start, and if someone got placed there, it can be legitimate grounds for requesting a restart. You say that other nations have less than ideal positions, but the only one land position with only 2 connections is the island in the middle of the ocean. Would you be fine if we could pick one of your nations to start there?

[rdonj]

I would suggest taking a look at the map and providing septimius with one or two province numbers that you deem more fair, it would probably be faster than having him look for a new one.

[atul]

I already provided him with few I would be happy with quite near the original one, but he declined. Me being too threatening an all that.

Oh well, this is silly and going nowhere. I'll just have to be a lot more aggressive than I intended thanks to the position. Lets get the game started, already 13 pretenders up.

[Lingchih]

We need our water nation to be in a good locale. 2 provs seems not enough to me. I request a re-emplacement.

And, umm, Sept? I go on vacation in one month. Could you call your people, and let's get this thing started?

[Septimius Severus]

I already provided him with few I would be happy with quite near the original one, but he declined. Me being too threatening an all that.

Oh well, this is silly and going nowhere. I'll just have to be a lot more aggressive than I intended thanks to the position. Lets get the game started, already 13 pretenders up.

Though I hate cluttering the server with more map files (I'll have to ask Llama to remove the last two), I see I'll have no choice. After looking at the map, I've given Atul another starting position with 3 water provs that should be fair enough for both sides.

No more changes. Let's get those remaining pretenders in.

[atul]

Thanks Sept.

Now that out of the way, lets get started.

[Lingchih]

Amen. Let's get it started.

[viccio]

sorry for delay

[Ironhawk]

Jachra (Tien Chi) is the only one out now

[Septimius Severus]

I've yet to recieve a response from Jachra to my pm's. It appears we may need to switch in an alternate for T'ien Chi. I don't want to delay this much longer.

[P3D]

Took over TC. Let's rock.

[Lingchih]

And so it begins. Mysterio will have his revenge.

Though, honestly, Mysteria never even got hurt in the last game, and would probably have killed thousands before she went down. But I'm cool with Sept's backstory. It's pretty fitting, considering all her allies were dying.

And Mysterio, (though god only knows why he loved a Gorgon), will be kicking *** and taking names in this game.

[rdonj]

Eh? Didn't pyg's wyrm get in a good bite or two? It may never be known what exactly happened to Mysteria, as records of those final days of the first great war have been lost in the obscuring mists of time.

P3D is set up in Jachra's place now on the noob forum, so as far as I know everything is in place and this game should actually get moving.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I think she did get pretty badly wounded. But with the recuperation of the Gorgon, it was not a big deal.

[TheDemon]

Looks like Noobs vs Vets II: Team "we have a better forum" vs Team #Dominions is up and running.

Good luck to both sides with your indy-stomping.

[rdonj]

The noob team really does need a place to organize and a quick way to discuss things. IRC would be faster, but I bet getting everyone on at the same time would be just about impossible.... It probably sounds like all I do is talk about that forum, heh :)

[Ironhawk]

Took over TC. Let's rock.

Ah, glad to hear it. I was getting worried about the game start

Good luck to all! :)

:dagger: And some extra luck to the noobs about to be hideously mauled!! :dagger:

[TheDemon]

The noob team really does need a place to organize and a quick way to discuss things. IRC would be faster, but I bet getting everyone on at the same time would be just about impossible.... It probably sounds like all I do is talk about that forum, heh :)

I was more commenting on that ALL of the vet team, including our alternates, are #Dominions regulars. I have no idea how it ended up that way.

[Lavaere]

sorry to ask with all thats happened. but I've just gone through 3 back-up computer cases to get this working. so can you add a couple hours to the first turn. so I can have some time time for finish some of my other works and still get the turn in

[namad]

i'm pretty much only qualified to be an alternate purely based on the ease of communicating with me on IRC not my actual knowledge or execution

[rdonj]

I was more commenting on that ALL of the vet team, including our alternates, are #Dominions regulars. I have no idea how it ended up that way.

Ah, right. Maybe it was just an easy way for lingchih to recruit people ;)

[Septimius Severus]

sorry to ask with all thats happened. but I've just gone through 3 back-up computer cases to get this working. so can you add a couple hours to the first turn. so I can have some time time for finish some of my other works and still get the turn in

The hosting interval is currently set to 32 hours, the game will host Friday 2:20 PM GMT, let me know if you will need more time than this.

Though of course, I was hoping we could all get at least our first turn in ahead of schedule.

[Lingchih]

Too big of a game Sept. Every turn will take the maximum hours.

And yes, I could go on about how the first turn takes like 5 minutes to do. But it would do no good.

[Lavaere]

ahh 32 hours. was think it was 24 hours and apparently took 25 till I finally got to it. well atleast I'm not the last to get my turn in

[Septimius Severus]

Too big of a game Sept. Every turn will take the maximum hours.

And yes, I could go on about how the first turn takes like 5 minutes to do. But it would do no good.

Yada yada yada...

- boring or empty talk, often used interjectionally especially in recounting words regarded as too dull or predictable to be worth repeating.

Yes, I know all about it.

I hearby charge you Lingchih with the task of sending out PM's too all late submitters for the first 10 turns. That oughta keep ya busy.

I hope Mysterio is slaughtered soon, then hopefully your ramblings will cease.

[atul]

Well it's only C'tis and Vanheim left.

Time to apply the pressure.

*applies the pressure*

Okay, someone else actually do something productive.

[Ironhawk]

FYI, I just thought I'd let everyone know that I discovered the Throne of the World in my cap this turn. Can't really beat that for a turn 1.

[P3D]

Ah, a second Throne, how interesting.

[Lingchih]

You want me to send notices to the late submitters to get their turns in Septimius? That's like asking a chocoholic to guard the candy store. Of course I will do it. And probably be quite an a-hole about it.

[Lingchih]

Following up on the last post.

Vanheim, wtf? get your turn in dude.

[atul]

It worked!

[Lingchih]

Damn straight it worked. Mysterio doesn't take well to slackers.

[Illuminated One]

Ton of Bricks, King of Many Names?

Nice try, what would it mean if he really had that epithet btw.?

[TheDemon]

In my defense I wasn't the only one to add an extra title (I'm looking at you Lanka).

[Septimius Severus]

Damn straight it worked. Mysterio doesn't take well to slackers.

Bravo! Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether my fellow noobs take 5 mins or 31 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds to get their turn in, as long as (certain of them) don't stale within the first 10 turns. That would be detrimental to us and could cost us the initiative. It simply cannot be tolerated. Especially without notice of some kind. I usually don't count the first turn as their are usually no troop movements during it.

Vets, on the other hand, feel free to stale as much as you like. Especially early on. :)

[Ironhawk]

Found another site in my cap on turn 2. Mountain of Power - beat that!!

[atul]

Damn, I really need to start searching for my capital for all those cool sites!

But, at least I'm bigger than any of you! Ha!

...now only if I'd find such sites as IH from my capital...

[Lavaere]

Why you looking my way. As for mine Habaek, the Water God. Its a real korean god. And if you ever get a chance to see some of my leaders you'll see more korean names.
Next game I'm thinking my own Maori culture. Though not sure which maori god to use yet.

[P3D]

Ironhawk, aren't you just frustrated with your capital placed on the Inkpot End?