Lychantrops' amulet effects on national heroes

[Il Magno]

Just a question:

is the amulet capable to transform national or evocated characters?

Till now (I am a rookie) I have seen only indy commmanders transformed in wolf bersekers.
Actually I am testing it on a Sleeper, Dryad and white centaur ierophant, in a solo game (Pangea is my preferred nation)

regards

[Stavis_L]

Just a question:

is the amulet capable to transform national or evocated characters?


Yes.

Actually I am testing it on a Sleeper, Dryad and white centaur ierophant, in a solo game

Be careful if you place it on a creature with magic or particular traits you like. IIRC, this item doesn't just change the creature type to be a Skinshifter, it actually *replaces* the unit with a Skinshifter unit (overwriting all of said magic + special attributes, etc.)

That said, I'm not sure if *all* units can be affected by it. There was a thread a while back where someone suggested placing it on a Giant Squid pretender for an underwater nation, and the poster claimed that they'd never encountered a transformation due to the amulet in that case.

Has anyone ever investigated whether

1) Are pretenders immune?
2) Are underwater units in general immune?
3) Are any other categories or specific units immune?

[Edi]

The unique id is kept. All magics are kept. Just the monster type changes. I had one LA Ulm member of the Second Tier pick one up in a battle and he later changed into a skinshifter. Kept his magics, so he could still research. Useless in combat due to the autoberserking, though. The transformation requires a failure of an MR check and it presumably forces a check every turn. So eventually the transformation will occur.

[Kuritza]

I never, ever saw a bane lord transformed into skinshifter. Not sure if it's a good idea to eqip him with lycantropos' because of berserking fatique, though.

[Omnirizon]

I never, ever saw a bane lord transformed into skinshifter. Not sure if it's a good idea to eqip him with lycantropos' because of berserking fatique, though.

I don't think 0 enc units affected by berserk fatigue. I don't know about undead, but I love putting these on Shinuyama's Ghost General summons (ethereal undead) and they never change (I don't know if it is the undead, or etherealness that prevents it).

long story short, (ethereal|undead) are prime candidates for lync amulets

[Agema]

I would think it would be hard for the undead to suffer from lycanthropy. Although the idea of a zombie werewolf it interesting. I think this might have been brought up before (although I couldn't find where) and I think someone might have said it only affects humans and human-like human-sized beings, not giants, monsters and so on.

[chrispedersen]

I use em all the time, I never have seen anything change.

[Baalz]

I don't know for 100% sure, but (being the one referenced) over probably 150+ total game turns of testing my Kraken pretender never transformed. He was in a dominion-10 with high MR, so I suppose it might be possible. Since the results of that test a while ago I've sparingly used the amulet on things I thought wouldn't turn (undead, acquatic, etc) and haven't been surprised yet, though admittedly I don't use it often so that's not very scientific.

[Meglobob]

I have had a Kraken god in Qwerty with the Lycan's amulet for nearly 90 turns and its never transformed. I rarely use them but have never seen a transformation yet.

[ano]

Seems like monsters and undead (and maybe demons as well) don not transform which is logical, IMO.
As for Bane Lord, giving him an amulet is a bad idea due to another reason: it is quite vulnerable overall and the best script for him in most cases is to wait for several turns and then attack closest to be out of range of most spells. I've had very bad experience with BL's wearing Lychantrop's amulet. Mages slay them really easy.

[Kuritza]

Well, yes. Bad idea, that reason or another; in test games BL with lycan's died pathetically so I gave up on that idea.

[Baalz]

I find they work well with Iron Angels from Ulm and Angels of Vengeance From Mari - fly in there and kick the crap out of people before they're prepared. In CBM they're also only 5N, or 3N with a hammer so they make sense to stick on things like minotaur lords with a couple flesh eaters as cheap anti-thugs. Autoberserk is *good* when you want +attack +str for a 1 round kill and you're likely not gonna live if you take damage. Not the end of the world if they change...

[Gregstrom]

A category of units that seem (in my limited experience) to remain unaffected are those who can already change shape or have a secondform.

[Lingchih]

The Pebble Skin suit is another story.

[JimMorrison]

Oh oh, tell me a story! :D

I subbed a game where a Svartalf had the Suit on, and he never did turn into a Troll..... So I've always wondered.

[Jarkko]

As EA C'tis I've used the amulet, together with E-N bless, on Lizard Heirs in SP test games. Have a Lizard King scripted with Divine Bless, retreat and watch the carnage. Too bad the Lizard Heirs are capital only, but already a few seem to do wonders.

[Lingchih]

Oh oh, tell me a story! :D

I subbed a game where a Svartalf had the Suit on, and he never did turn into a Troll..... So I've always wondered.

Not much of a story really.

I did have a game where the pebble skin suit transformed a national into a troll. A very wimpy troll. It was sad.

The Horror Story though, is a game that I took over for from another player. In said game, I quickly noticed that the previous player had equipped a very nice Great Enchantress pretender with a pebble skin suit. So, I could never put anything nice on her, like a Robe of the Magi. Had to get the pretender killed to get the damn thing off.

[JimMorrison]

I subbed into a game where the pretender (a Great Enchantress as well!) had the Champion's Trident. O.o

Then another where my Ghost King had the Boots of the Planes, and I didn't notice, and 2 turns later he got Lost in Time and Space - just after I grabbed his weapon for a tartarian. :shock:

I keep wanting to try out the Pebble suit, but I hate items you can't remove - maybe I decide later I want something else?

New spell! Blobform. :p Turns you into a Blob with no slots, so you can get cursed items off. Now, if only we could figure out how to change you back. o.O

[chrispedersen]

New Pretender:

The Great Amoeba: Four Forms. Flying, Amphibian, No Slots, Human...

[Taqwus]

Using both the amulet and the suit might be something to do if in a very silly mood. Holy identity disorder...

[Il Magno]

Well looks like also a dryad was transformed in a wolf berseker: I have found it is still sacred, priest level 1, not sure if it still a mage N1........

[Stavis_L]

I keep wanting to try out the Pebble suit, but I hate items you can't remove - maybe I decide later I want something else?

New spell! Blobform. :p Turns you into a Blob with no slots, so you can get cursed items off. Now, if only we could figure out how to change you back. o.O

Dunno about that...but you could try Transformation if the equipper also has nature magic. Lots of the animal forms don't have body slots.

Kind of an ideal sequence, but...

1) Summon Tartarian with Nature (and presumably + Earth magic too.)
2) Equip pebble suit
3) Trollification
4) Transformation (cross your fingers, repeat as necessary)
5) Rinse, repeat (if you can find another N+E tart)

Ta-da! No more shattered soul for a teeny-tiny subset of your tarts!

:smirk:

Actually, for Nature + Death mages, Transformation to get rid of unwanted equipment + Twiceborn to re-appear as a Wight mage can be semi-viable (ok, not really, but fun to consider), at least in CBM where Transformation's not insanely expensive.

(whoops, looks like I veered a bit off topic...)

[ano]

Pebble suit and Lychantrop's amulet don't work on undead, lifeless and monsters

[Meglobob]

I like the pebble suit and equip it on a wimpy earth mage, so they become a more powerful troll mage usually. A crystal mage or other old earth mage is excellent for the transformation becasue you get rid of old age and with the additional blood stone and earth boots get a E5 mage who can cast all kinds of earth goodness. I see no reason to ever want to remove the pebble stone suit in that situation.

I can't think of a good strategy to use pebble suit/transformation with off the top of my head in cbm. But will keep a eye out for one.

[Il Magno]

Another test in my solo game:

I have cast gift of reason on an Elephant to have it as a commander

added the amulet to move it to Morale 99

added some protective gear to protect the investment

added a bodyguard of 15 elephants

now I have to check if it works in a battle

I wonder if it payoff.....:confused:

[Stavis_L]

Pebble suit and Lychantrop's amulet don't work on undead, lifeless and monsters

I can confirm that I definitely have had the pebble suit transform Tartarians (which are undead, but not lifeless.) As far as "monsters" - what attribute would indicate that something is a "monster"?

[ano]

I don't know for sure what the tag is but Baalz many times said that Kraken didn't transform into werewolf for about 200 turns or even more.
Maybe pebble suit has different mechanics...
Will test it.

[chrispedersen]

I wonder if being low on hit points contributes to the chance of change. I only mention it as it is so with fever fetishes.. and reusing code is good practise.

As a test, 10 creatures at 5 hp diseased, vs 10 creatures at 10 hp.

[Baalz]

I don't know for sure what the tag is but Baalz many times said that Kraken didn't transform into werewolf for about 200 turns or even more.
Maybe pebble suit has different mechanics...
Will test it.

It's possible that it's the pretender flag, several things don't affect pretenders. The Kraken was the only thing I've ever done an extended test on, though a I mentioned I've occasionally stuck them on things I thought unlikely to change since then (angels, demons etc) and not seen one turn.

[llamabeast]

I wonder if being low on hit points contributes to the chance of change. I only mention it as it is so with fever fetishes.. and reusing code is good practise.

Meep, not so. Fever fetishes mainly produce gems on people with less hp that they started with, rather than just low hp. High hp carriers are a good choice because they last longer.

[chrispedersen]

Respectfully, I disagree. The first few turns I seem to get few gems. The last few turns I almost always get gems.

[Gregstrom]

Llamabeast is about right, if I remember one of lch's posts on the matter correctly. It was something like: at max hits you almost never get a gem, 1 or 2 hits below max and the chance increases, 3 or more hits below max and you always get a gem.

[chrispedersen]

But that was what *I* said... hit points matter.
I'm just curious if the chance to change might be affected by things other than that just mr.


It would be very cool if you were dying from disease and it saved you by turning you into a were....or troll

[Zeldor]

You should put that astral standard on the guy, it decreases MR, so you should turn into werewolf faster.

[chrispedersen]

Something else gives you -2 mr -- void eye I think.

Would be an interesting test:

Stick the void eye, the standard on him...

Two variations: in a +3 magic 0 magic -3 magic - to see if the save is affected by the magic scale.

[Gregstrom]

Well, since magic scale already affects MR, the answer would be yes.

[chrispedersen]

Many item effects I am not convinced magic scale *does* affect save. Just as penetration boost items don't seem to affect item cast spells in some occassions

[PsiSoldier]

I subbed into a game where the pretender (a Great Enchantress as well!) had the Champion's Trident. O.o

Then another where my Ghost King had the Boots of the Planes, and I didn't notice, and 2 turns later he got Lost in Time and Space - just after I grabbed his weapon for a tartarian. :shock:

I keep wanting to try out the Pebble suit, but I hate items you can't remove - maybe I decide later I want something else?

New spell! Blobform. :p Turns you into a Blob with no slots, so you can get cursed items off. Now, if only we could figure out how to change you back. o.O

I imagine you may already know this but you can wish for a two handed item if you are holding a cursed one handed item or Helm or Armor or boots and it will give you what you wish for and remove the cursed item. Doesnt work for Misc. items though unless of course you only have one Misc. slot

I like the Blobform idea though haha.