Bloodless - Less micro game [running]

[P3D]

I decided to get start a game on Llamaserver with less micromanagement than usual. Envisioned starting date is June 4-5.

Mod is uploaded.

Era: Middle Age
Research: Difficult
Sites: 60
Players: 8-10
Gold and Resources: 125%
HoF: 10
MaP: Primea (semirandomized)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37593
Victory condition: by player's agreement


Mods
CBM 1.5:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43120
Bloodless:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=694540#post694540
Streamers&Standards:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989

Turns: 24h initially

Custom mod features & rules:
1. No Blood Magic
2. No Gem factories
3. No Ashdod
4. No Uber Bonus sites
5. No Tartarians
6. NAP in first 10 turns

Nations joined so far

1. Dragar - TC
2. Valerius - Eriu
3. Alpine Joe - Ermor
4. LoloMo - Mictlan
5. Ossa - Ulm
6. P3D - Pythium
7. Fakeymcfake - Shinuyama

[Dragar]

Nice concept! I'll give TC a go

[Valerius]

Interesting idea. Eriu, please.

But how will you remove blood magic from the game?

Also, will this be a llamaserver game?

[Alpine Joe]

I'll jump in as Ermor

[LoloMo]

I love this idea, especially the no tartarians! Mictlan please (MA Mictlan has no recruitable mages with blood).

To remove blood magic, I suggest setting all Blood magic spells to level 9, or cost the max number of slaves to cast.

[Ossa]

I'd join as Ulm

[Jarkko]

Slightly OT, but I've seen "Banned Spells" mentioned now in a couple game threads. Which spells are they?

[P3D]

At least Utterdark, Burden of Time, Arcane Nexus, and honestly I'd put the Forge into the group.

I will be on a conference next week, so I will have time to make the custom mod.
Blood will be edited out through deleting or modifying spells and items.

[P3D]

Started modding - all the undesired spells (all blood, forge, tartarians, ud, an, ac) are edited out. Blood sites and items are to follow.

A masochist could still use bloodhunting to empower scouts to research, but that's about it.

Game is still recruiting.

[Valerius]

Looking forward to this game/mod. Will blood stones still be available in some form as path boosters?

[P3D]

I could make blood stones available (copying boots and modding it accordingly).

6 players should be enough for a game. Anyone has suggestion for the map?

[Fakeymcfake]

If you're still taking players I'd like to join up with Shinuyama if at all possible.

[Valerius]

I could make blood stones available (copying boots and modding it accordingly).

Sounds good; but I'm also fine with leaving them out if you prefer.

6 players should be enough for a game. Anyone has suggestion for the map?

Looks like we're now up to 7 players. Parganos (possibly with dead seas) is a nice map but with fewer provinces per player than you intended.

I've also always liked The Land of Loemendor (on the llamaserver if you want to take a look).

[Dragar]

would anyone actually make blood stones with no blood magic available? i doubt anyone is taking a nation which has decent blood casters?

[Valerius]

My thought was that they would no longer be "blood stones" in the sense that another path would be substituted for blood in the forging cost. They of course wouldn't generate gems, but would still boost E by 1.

[P3D]

Mod should be working, and is available for downloading.
Map was set to Parganos but will be changed.

Unofortunately I could not modify Blood stones as requried, so they are out.

[P3D]

Game is now on Llamaserver.
Mod should be working, and is available for downloading.
Map was set to Parganos but will be changed.

Unofortunately I could not modify Blood stones as requried, so they are out.

[Dragar]

is the mod required for rpetender creation? ot just cbm?

[Valerius]

What map did you decide on? Or are you still thinking it over?

[P3D]

What map did you decide on? Or are you still thinking it over?

CBM should be enough for pretenders, I did not change a thing in that respect.
Have to think about the map issue.

[Valerius]

I was browsing the llamaserver and came across a promising map. Primea has the right number of provinces (I think you wanted 20 per nation) and not too many ocean provinces either (assuming we won't have a water nation).

BTW, did you decide on a nation P3D?

[P3D]

Primea looks OK.
I chose Pythium.

[Valerius]

Doh. I should have checked out Primea more closely. The version with the fixed starts was semi randomized and some of the provinces have defense much tougher than standard indie setting. If we go for the non-semi randomized version we will probably have to choose starting locations. Also, there's something strange about the map - provinces 64 and 65 seem to be in the same position. Haven't checked out exactly why that is.

Given that, I thought I'd attach a map I created a while back when generating a batch of maps through RanDom. It only has 120 provinces but was not intended for ocean nations so only five are water. I think it's an interesting map. The screenshot shows proposed start locations. The water is not as muddy looking in the real map as on this JPEG.

If there's any interest in this map I'll upload it to the llamaserver for review.

[P3D]

I checked the Primea map file.
Four provinces are inactive (64, 65, 105, 153) so that should not be a problem.

We'll go with the basic Primea map as the semirandom one would give advantage to those familiar with the map. Fixed starts is an option.
If less than 7 players shows up, we should give your map a try.

[Valerius]

Ok, sounds good. I think it would be good to assign starting positions, though. I ran a test with 7 nations and while some had lots of space, another two had their capitols two provinces apart. The other strange thing is that two nations had their capitols in 64 and 65...

[P3D]

Looked at Primea again, and it won't be a good map. That big sea essentially blocks expansion to anyone in the NW and SW corners.

Made a random map with 150 provinces, 5-7 starting neighbors. There is a minimum of 3 provinces between the capitals.
Also added a connection across the sea.

Now we are waiting for Ossa to submit pretender.

[Valerius]

Ok, that will work. Maybe PM Ossa about his pretender?

[P3D]

He promised submitting it Monday.

[Valerius]

BTW, the game appears to be on autostart so better change the map from Primea.

[Valerius]

I guess we'll restart on the correct map?

[P3D]

Yes, restart after I manage to undo the mess I accidentally created with the game.

[P3D]

Game was restarted with the correct map.

[Fakeymcfake]

I will be away this weekend (20th-21st) so if we're still on 24h by then I'll need a delay.

[P3D]

I am thinking about increasing turn time to 36 - will postpone if necessary.

[P3D]

Set hosting to 36 turns and pushed next turn to Monday 0950 GMT.

[P3D]

I am traveling overseas for vacation. I will have internet access, but might have problems with daily attention to the game. I set turn interval to 48h.

[Dragar]

Looks like P3D hasn't managed to log in yet.. difficult siutation given he is the admin. Should we ask llama to delay the turn in anticipation, or wait until closer to turn end and risk pythium double-stlaing? The latter isnt' a good option given pythium's strong position in this game

[Valerius]

Maybe wait another 12 hours and if P3D hasn't checked in by then we'll PM llama? That would still be a day before the next hosting.

[Valerius]

I PM'd llama asking him to postpone hosting until next Wed.

P3D, if you do get a chance to submit a turn perhaps you'll want to PM one of us the admin password so we can delay the game if it looks like you won't have a chance to submit the next turn?

[llamabeast]

Postponed till Wednesday night.

[Fakeymcfake]

Going to need a delay until midday thursday as I'm moving. Probably won't need that long but with moving who knows.

[P3D]

Sent the admin password to Valerius.

[Valerius]

Please post here if you need a delay.

While P3D is traveling I'll keep an eye on the server; if it looks like Pythium is going to stale I'll postpone hosting.

[Valerius]

Eriu is seeking earth and astral gems. We can offer a variety of gems or forged items in exchange. Please PM if interested.

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm going to need a delay of game since I'll be out of town for the entire weekend. Should be home by midday monday EST.

[Valerius]

No turn from Pythium with an hour to go so I've postponed hosting.

Fakey, I'll delay hosting as needed so you have time to get your turn in.

[Valerius]

As mentioned above, hosting has been delayed until 23:40 GMT Monday.

[Valerius]

With 4 hours until hosting Pythium's turn isn't in. Given that the llamaserver will be switching to a new machine shortly I'm going to already postpone hosting now.

[P3D]

Despite whatever untruth Shinuyama wants everyone believe, Pythium sent an ingame message about canceling the NAP 3 turns ahead.

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm out. With my current position and the fact I'm going on vacation for a few days, and thus would have to ask for a delay if I wanted to continue, it's better if I just go AI and let you guys continue with the game.

Have fun with the rest of it.

[Valerius]

Pythium was about to stale for the third time in a row so I delayed hosting. P3D doesn't have Internet access at the moment so I'm waiting to hear from him as to how to proceed.

[Dragar]

agreed, we either need to pause unti he's able or get a sub. Having Pythium staling anymore or go AI is bad for the game

[P3D]

I have some intermittent access, and life needed me for a few days (moving and a conference). Increasing turn time by 12hrs should allow me to submit the turn files in time - at least I hope so.

[Valerius]

P3D, glad you're interested in continuing. As when you were traveling, I'll postpone hosting if it seems like you'll stale.

[Valerius]

Pythium's turn wasn't in with 15 minutes to go so I've postponed hosting.

[Valerius]

Sorry, but I've delayed the game again. Pythium's turn was in but a few minutes before hosting Mictlan's was still missing. Added 6 hours.

[Valerius]

Since Pythium's turn wasn't in I postponed hosting by 12 hours. I also changed the hosting interval to 60 hours as P3D requested.

[P3D]

Thanks for delaying, I am supposed to get 'net at home sometimes next week (26th).

[Valerius]

No problem! I'll still keep an eye out for everyone's turns, but the 60 hour hosting is probably safer in case I'm not at the computer when hosting approaches.

[LoloMo]

I would like to request for a 24 hour extension for this turn and an increase in turn interval to 72 hours. War has arrived on Mictlan's lands and our jungle chieftains need the extra time to sort out the confusion resulting from everyone being named Eytu Eychtri :)

[Valerius]

Hosting has been postponed. But really, there's no need to plan things carefully - just rush into battle. :)

As regards increasing the interval, P3D's first post doesn't say anything about hosting intervals beyond 24 hours to start. I temporarily increased it to 60 hours to help with his connectivity problems (which seem to be resolved). How does everyone feel about moving to 72 hours?

[Dragar]

Personally I find that very long for this stage of the game, especially with no gem generators or blood to cause micromanagement grief.. the point of this game was to be able to avoid all of that to make turns fast to play

I'm happy with extensions when people need but can we try and keep the average turn a bit shorter?

[LoloMo]

I would like to request for a 12 hour extension. Big personality clashes occuring with my underwater hockey club, and we have meetings going past midnight. Too tired to finish my turn tonight.

[Valerius]

No problem; hosting has been delayed until 9:05 GMT Wednesday.

And I learned something new today - I hadn't heard of underwater hockey until now. How long do players typically stay under before going for air?

[LoloMo]

Thanks! We use fins and masks and snorkels. We stay no more than 5 to 10 seconds underwater at a time, then have to go back up to grab some air, then down again. When you're sprinting underwater, you can't really stay under for more than a few seconds. And a game lasts 30 mins, so the oxygen debt builds up. Check it out, maybe you have a club near you :)

[Valerius]

We stay no more than 5 to 10 seconds underwater at a time, then have to go back up to grab some air, then down again. When you're sprinting underwater, you can't really stay under for more than a few seconds. And a game lasts 30 mins, so the oxygen debt builds up.

Interesting; I figured exerting yourself like that you'd burn through oxygen quick but didn't realize you surfaced that often.

Check it out, maybe you have a club near you :)

I think I'd first need to forge myself a ring of water breathing. Too much time playing Dominions and not enough exercising. :)

[P3D]

I have to say I lost all my interest in Dom3.
Just don't have the patience to spend hours to figure out how to make battle scripts effective or just plan forging a few turns ahead - and that's essentially what it needs to be a good player.

I got about zero fun from the games I played lately. :(
Just getting a turn done late and in a very short time.

I started the game before I realized all this.

[Valerius]

Sorry to hear that P3D. I know this game was an attempt to reduce micromanagement but a lot (most) of it is inherent to the game and once you reach the late game it can easily become tiresome. It's less fun to manage dozens of thugs and SCs and armies than it is to manage just a few of them.

Will you post for a sub? And will you keep playing until a sub is found?

[LoloMo]

Can I request for an extension? 48 hours would be nice, but I can work with 24 hours. I live in the Philippines and we've been hit by a 42 year flood. Me and my family suffered minimal damage, but our office and friends were flooded, so have been busy. I'm able to log in to post, but no real time to do a good turn.

Might give a chance for P3D to find a sub.

Btw, it looks like Ulm has a big lead right now. I've been hoping to stall him until Pythium defeats Eriu and help me out against him, but if Pythium goes AI, I think the game is won by Ulm, unless Tien Chi and Eriu dogpiles him. :p

Mictlan

[Valerius]

Can I request for an extension? 48 hours would be nice, but I can work with 24 hours. I live in the Philippines and we've been hit by a 42 year flood. Me and my family suffered minimal damage, but our office and friends were flooded, so have been busy. I'm able to log in to post, but no real time to do a good turn.

Might give a chance for P3D to find a sub.

I've delayed hosting by 48 hours. If, as seems to be the case, P3D will not submit any more turns then we will need the time to find a sub. Good luck dealing with the flood.

Btw, it looks like Ulm has a big lead right now. I've been hoping to stall him until Pythium defeats Eriu and help me out against him, but if Pythium goes AI, I think the game is won by Ulm, unless Tien Chi and Eriu dogpiles him. :p

I'd agree with this analysis. At the moment Pythium and I are stalemated. Ulm is getting stronger with every turn and is the clear winner if things were to end now.

[Ossa]

Well... yes. Though I didnt expect to end up in such a strong position, my money would also be on Ulm for this game.

Actually I've so far been pretty diplomatic and I dont know whether I'd like to see this final dogpiling - so if anyone of you calls to end this game I'd be fine with it.

Of course we can see how things evolve after Mictlan has been swallowed;)

[Valerius]

Actually I've so far been pretty diplomatic and I dont know whether I'd like to see this final dogpiling - so if anyone of you calls to end this game I'd be fine with it.

Any other opinions on this? I enjoy playing Eriu but my chances of victory are very slim. I'm fine with ending it. If we do end it I think Ulm should get the victory.

[LoloMo]

I agree. I would give Ulm the victory too.

[Valerius]

That's three votes in favor of ending it. Dragar, any objections?

[Valerius]

I've postponed hosting by another 24 hours in anticipation that we'll probably call it a game.

[Dragar]

Sounds good, I screwed up ages ago and was dreading each turn tbh.

[Valerius]

I guess it's good this subject came up since we might have kept playing, despite no one really wanting to. :)

This game wasn't as much fun as I expected. After the first round of wars everyone seemed to turtle. I think nobody wanted to be the first to attack, afraid it would give another nation an opportunity. Eventually TC and I decided to liven things up by attacking Mictlan. Ulm (for whom I think turtling payed off) jumped in as well and gained a decisive lead.

I hadn't given up against Pythium, and given the reduced threat from Mictlan was planning on devoting all my forces to attacking him. But I may be overestimating my chances. In addition to his angels, Pythium was summoning wraith lords at a very quick pace (maybe one per turn?) and I wouldn't be able to kill them once I entered his dominion - unlike when I was fighting defensively and he used them against me. And in any case, even if I won, I wouldn't have had a chance against Ulm.

From the beginning, I was most worried about Ulm and Pythium since they had national SCs. With these game settings I thought Ulm's Iron Angels could be a very cost effective summon and this proved to be the case. Once he cast earth blood deep well I'm guessing he was averaging 3 of them every two turns?

I'll post the game in the victorious nations thread and delete it from the llamaserver. Congratulations, Ossa!

[P3D]

I did not play Pythium before in MP - in general I had problems getting human nations. Lack of experience. I had a huge Water income very fast that's why I started to spam Hidden in Snow/Sand by the endgame besides making a lot of W boosters and frostbands and such. My D income was 20+ before the Well and 40 after could not do anything but summon bane/wraith lords.
The latter at least would need minimal equipment. I had AMA, Shock res + frost band + lucky coin.
I had only a minimal N income (8) so I really needed what I got from my pretender.
The Sidhes were simply PITA. I could manage with thugs/SCs but making armies lighting immune is not that easy.

Did my Mind Hunt have any success besides scouts and indy commanders?

I found the F2E4D4N4 Lord of Rebirth, with decent scales a pretty good choice. Looking back I should have one more candle or two against the aggressive dom push by both Ulm and Eriu.

With more careful planning I might have been ready 10 turns earlier for an aggressive war but as it happened, I was not ready not much before the war happened.

Sidenote, do not cast Mind Hunt on units sieging your own fort with Frost Dome on. :o