A Few Questions

[Piłsudski]

I would first like to say hello to everyone on the forum - I am a long-timer avid fan of SPWaW but have recently switched over to playing MBT for the first time. Once I began playing MBT, I noticed several differences between the two games even though WaW is a modded version of MBT. Thus I am somewhat confused by several points:

1. In MBT, there are no pop-up windows as in WaW when firing weapons or mouse hovering over units or terrain. Is this purely a WaW feature, or did I download an older version of MBT (I have v.4.0)?

2. In WaW, you are given an option of conducting op fire (and can decline if you wish), but it seems in MBT, you can only limit the target types or range for op fire in MBT. Again, is this purely a WaW feature, or did I download an older version of MBT (I have v.4.0)?

I must say that MBT is a much different game than WaW, but thoroughly enjoyable once I get the feel for modern combat - which might take me a while! Any help with these question would be greatly appreciated.

[Mobhack]

I would first like to say hello to everyone on the forum - I am a long-timer avid fan of SPWaW but have recently switched over to playing MBT for the first time. Once I began playing MBT, I noticed several differences between the two games even though WaW is a modded version of MBT. Thus I am somewhat confused by several points:

1. In MBT, there are no pop-up windows as in WaW when firing weapons or mouse hovering over units or terrain. Is this purely a WaW feature, or did I download an older version of MBT (I have v.4.0)?

2. In WaW, you are given an option of conducting op fire (and can decline if you wish), but it seems in MBT, you can only limit the target types or range for op fire in MBT. Again, is this purely a WaW feature, or did I download an older version of MBT (I have v.4.0)?

I must say that MBT is a much different game than WaW, but thoroughly enjoyable once I get the feel for modern combat - which might take me a while! Any help with these question would be greatly appreciated.

WAW is not a modded version of our game in any way whatsoever. They made their game based on the SP3 engine, we remained with the SP2 engine we had been using before.

1) Pop up windows getting in the way are part of the SP3 engine. Same as the SP3 engine let you "magically" know your unit was spotted by some unseen enemy unit with a "~" character etc. The SP3 engine was horrible - and as I was on the beta test team, I knew that before it was released! :(. I got a free release copy from SSI - but would not have bought it, otherwise.

2) WAW only. It gives the human another unfair advantage over the AI (as the AI does not get to use that feature) - just like e.g. using ammo trucks is a human player only advantage in all SP games.

Our opfire filtering is used internally by the AI, and a skilled scenario designer can use it to set up AI "kill sacks" etc if so desired.

Try searching the WW2 and MBT forums on "opportunity fire" or "WAW" - this has all been discussed somewhere on these forums before.

cheers
Andy

[Piłsudski]

Ahh, thank you, Andy, for the reply. I was mistaken then about WaW being a mod of the original game, sorry about that. MBT plays out much differently than WaW and requires an entirely different approach in playing. However, I am entralled by the game, but have much to learn -especially that most infantry carry alot of anti-tank weapons and the like, or even anti-air missiles!

[Wdll]

The latest version of winSPMBT is 4.5

[troopie]

Spmbt is a delight. And that stuff they hammered into you in the army actually works.

troopie

[gila]

Ahh, thank you, Andy, for the reply. I was mistaken then about WaW being a mod of the original game, sorry about that. MBT plays out much differently than WaW and requires an entirely different approach in playing. However, I am entralled by the game, but have much to learn -especially that most infantry carry alot of anti-tank weapons and the like, or even anti-air missiles!

Do you have WinSPWW2?
Playing MBT in modern warfare, fresh from WaW would be frustrating,to say the least!

It's lot easier to get a grasp of the major differnce's from SPWaW and SPWW2,SPMBT and they are much different.

[DRG]

Probably the best way to learn the differences in modern combat ( and the differences between both games ) without suddenly diving in too deep to would be to start playing battles with winSPMBT in the late 1940's or early 50's then move up a decade at a time. That way you are not suddenly dropped into a ATGM rich enviroment without any lead in

As Andy noted WaW is NOT a mod of our games though our WW2 mod of Steel Panthers 2 predates the release of WaW by a couple of years.


Don

[Piłsudski]

Ahh, thank you, Andy, for the reply. I was mistaken then about WaW being a mod of the original game, sorry about that. MBT plays out much differently than WaW and requires an entirely different approach in playing. However, I am entralled by the game, but have much to learn -especially that most infantry carry alot of anti-tank weapons and the like, or even anti-air missiles!

Do you have WinSPWW2?
Playing MBT in modern warfare, fresh from WaW would be frustrating,to say the least!

It's lot easier to get a grasp of the major differnce's from SPWaW and SPWW2,SPMBT and they are much different.

I have been playing Steel Panthers WaW (and Enhanced) for years, but never played SPWW2 strangely. The biggest change is in Op fire and the amount of ATGM in the game. I am still trying to learn the best op fire settings for units. What I have found so far is to set up platoons in Two-up formations, with my lead sections set at op fire of 2 or less hexes, my platoon leader set at 0 hexes, and my support section in the rear set at 8 hexes or so (but only if they are equipped with a decent MG).

Probably the best way to learn the differences in modern combat ( and the differences between both games ) without suddenly diving in too deep to would be to start playing battles with winSPMBT in the late 1940's or early 50's then move up a decade at a time. That way you are not suddenly dropped into a ATGM rich enviroment without any lead in

As Andy noted WaW is NOT a mod of our games though our WW2 mod of Steel Panthers 2 predates the release of WaW by a couple of years.

Don

In playing SPWAW, I almost always preferred infantry over armor, so this will help in switching over games. However, I jumped right into modern scenarios, starting with the Heart of Africa campaign. That campaign is simply a treat to play :)I will have to keep battles small, no more than a company in size, until I get the hang of it. I don't even want to try armor right now:happy:

[runequester]

yeah, modern warfare is crazy. Infantry can knock out tanks a kilometer away with impunity. Takes a whole different type of tactics :)

[hoplitis]

yeah, modern warfare is crazy. Infantry can knock out tanks a kilometer away with impunity. Takes a whole different type of tactics :)

Bah! Actually the same since the sling, arrow and catapult was invented. "Break" the opponent's line with artillery. It's the "depth" of the line that has changed... and the fact that you put on your helmet on 2-3 kilometers "sooner" then your grandfather did !!!:D:D

[RVPERTVS]

Takes a whole different type of tactics :)

Like taking care of ATGMs first and don´t rely on smoke?

[Suhiir]

In general use either an expendable or hard to hit or very "tough" unit to draw fire by moving it in small increments across an area in line-of-sight/line-of-fire of the enemy, while your other units are in overwatch positions to see what fired at it...preferably where only a small portion of your opponent can get in a shot.
The supress or kill what exposes itself.
Rinse.
Repete as necessary.
Eventually you win. :)

[c_of_red]

That and the speed. An elephant with all his war kit on might hit 10KPH tops. Compare that to a MBT moving at 30+. With a fast MBT, deception tactics are possible. You also have to consider that a modern MBT can cross the biggest map in 3 or 4 turns if there is a road going that way and nothing to slow them down. If you don't watch your flanks, in 2 or 3 turns your opponent can be sitting behind you, laughing. Not a good position to find ones self in .

[c_of_red]

Suhiir, the Germans did that a lot in WW2. They normally used an obsolete light tank with only a driver aboard. I presume the driver has upset the Hauptmann somehow. They called it "trailing the Skirt" or something like that. Lifting the Skirt maybe. One of those German phrases that doesn't translate exactly. Anyway, it only worked against FNG's The vets knew better then to fall for it.
Same with SP. Rookies fall for that, vets set up to kill your overwatchers first. Remember, if they are in range, so are you.

[hoplitis]

...
Remember, if they are in range, so are you.

Infantry axiom not valid anymore I'm afraid. US vs Iraq for example. Except if you imply technological "parity" between the opposing forces.

[Suhiir]

...
Remember, if they are in range, so are you.

Infantry axiom not valid anymore I'm afraid. US vs Iraq for example. Except if you imply technological "parity" between the opposing forces.

Partially true.
We found out early in Gulf I the AK's the Iraqi 3rd rate units had were Iran-Iraq war junk with worn out barrels.
Given the standard arabic "stick weapon over your head-spray 'n pray" infantry tactics many of our guys actually got into standard fixed course rifle range positions, slings and all, at around 400m and practiced the USMC "One Shot - One Kill" doctrine. After a few minutes of this the Iraqi's got th point and surrendered.

And everyone knows what happened when Mr. T-72 met Mr. M1A1.

So yes, while in general the old axiom is true...in some situations it ain't.

[Imp]

Given the standard arabic "stick weapon over your head-spray 'n pray" infantry tactics


You have got to love it, human nature says at some point they are going to stick there head up to see if hit anything so the other guy is just siting there with his weapon trained on the spot, goodnight.

[Skirmisher]

Given the standard arabic "stick weapon over your head-spray 'n pray" infantry tactics

Where did they get that idea? I see this all the time in Iraqi insurgent video's.

[hoplitis]

C'mon guys (and gals),
we do it all the time, it's called Z-firing.
It's Z-firing with a twist...:)

[Skirmisher]

C'mon guys (and gals),
we do it all the time, it's called Z-firing.
It's Z-firing with a twist...:)

I don't do that. I think it's a waste of ammo.:happy:
I'd rather put the rounds directly on the target, better chance of removing a cyber soldier that way.

[Suhiir]

There are certainly moments when supressive fire has it uses.
But to use it as a "standard tactic" is merely a waste of ammo.

I'll diplomatically not mention the number of times in joint Army-Marine operations the Army has shown up on our doorstep with a empty cup asking to borrow some bullets.


Given the standard arabic "stick weapon over your head-spray 'n pray" infantry tactics

Where did they get that idea? I see this all the time in Iraqi insurgent video's.

Cultural thing.
At the risk of being sounding like a bigot...

In general arabs are based on a nomadic culture. Hit-n-run raids for loot rather then attack-n-capture the land were the norm for "warfare" for centuries. Similar to the native americans during the 1800's.

Also, in general, in low population nomadic type cultures killing lots of people isn't generally done during warfare. It's more a show of force then a kill em all thing...much like most inner city gang warfare.

As we all know in an ambush type enguagement lots of shooting, noise, confusion is the best way to overwhelm your opponent. Even if you don't kill them you scare them off. While they're running you can grab the sheep, camels, women and make good your escape.

Also note how often they fire weapons into the air during gatherings.

To them a "show of force" is warfare. So blazing away at nothing while not risking actually getting hurt by poking your head up is just a cultural thing.

Sure...if they get real military training they function just as well, or badly, as anyone else. But most of what you see in the news isn't real soldiers...just guys with guns.

[c_of_red]

I rarely 'Z' key. I figure that is why mortars were invented.
And I presumed technological equivalency. I am quite aware of the difference in effective ranges between a M9 Beretta and a MX-1 Peacekeeper.

[hoplitis]

...
I'll diplomatically not mention the number of times in joint Army-Marine operations the Army has shown up on our doorstep with a empty cup asking to borrow some bullets.
...

Well that's a cultural thingy too eh! :D

[Suhiir]

...
I'll diplomatically not mention the number of times in joint Army-Marine operations the Army has shown up on our doorstep with a empty cup asking to borrow some bullets.
...

Well that's a cultural thingy too eh! :D

But of course !