Bundeswehr to deploy Marders to 'Stan

[Anthony_Scott]

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:288ebd09-57f1-4fd9-bef3-32425439d457

Semper Fi, Carry On

[Marek_Tucan]

AFAIK there already are a few of these beasties, I recall seeing a pics of them in desert camo in typical mud hut villages...

[redcoat2]

A Marder at the Bundeswehr camp 'Marmal' near Masar-i-Scharif, Afghanistan, 30 June 2008.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/sonias_2007/junho1/20080630114552ENLUS0140017912148263.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/sonias_2007/junho1/20080630114739ENLUS0140018312148264.jpg

I think they have been largely used to protect bases ... until now. I'm not sure how well they are suited to the climate.

[Marek_Tucan]

Dunno about the climate, but I would say it will be found that 20mm is not enough for dealing with mud huts (but then from what I heard any autocannon needs a mig ammo expedienture to make a decent hole, the dried mud on straw matrix is apparently pretty tough composite armor). Will Germany send some tanks? Canucks and Danes seem to like Leopards in A-Stan well enough and it might be a good place to combat-test proposed Leopard2A6 UrbOps module (IE hull of 2A6M with dozer blade and turret of 2A4, fitted with heavy uparmoring).

[RecruitMonty]

Looks like some desert camo icons are in order then... ?:)

[DRG]

Looks like some desert camo icons are in order then... ?:)

Why not put an Marder A3 on a desert map and see what happens......

Don

[Mobryan]

Dunno about the climate, but I would say it will be found that 20mm is not enough for dealing with mud huts (but then from what I heard any autocannon needs a mig ammo expedienture to make a decent hole, the dried mud on straw matrix is apparently pretty tough composite armor). Will Germany send some tanks? Canucks and Danes seem to like Leopards in A-Stan well enough and it might be a good place to combat-test proposed Leopard2A6 UrbOps module (IE hull of 2A6M with dozer blade and turret of 2A4, fitted with heavy uparmoring).


I've a little experience with adobe, it's just straight up tough stuff. Probably the only enemy adobe needs to fear is a soaking rain or wet snow. If somebody was shooting at me, and I had the option of covering behing a rock wall or an adobe one, I'd chose the mud. :)


Matt

[Marek_Tucan]

Yep, apparently even LAWs and RPGs can make just a small hole, if you need to make an alternative entrance you need either heavier ATGM warhead (Javelin vs Mud Hut, way to go! ;)) or 105-120mm tank gun. It is possible to get through with a .50 HMG, but you'd better reserve few hours and a convoy with ammo...

[Imp]

Wrap it in plastic to keep out the rain & you have some cheap add on armour.:)
Seriously it would not surprise me if they are collecting diffrent mud samples to find out which mud is best & why

[Marek_Tucan]

Just got a crazy idea... What about using tougher matrix? The troops in A-Stan need protected bases, so why not take Kevlar sheets or just fibres (the kind that is used in various rugged printed circuit boards) and make a mud hut-like walls around say HW emplacements?

[Arralen]

Article in "Das Handelsblatt" (http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/schwere-waffen-fuer-bundeswehr-in-afghanistan;2370469) says the QRF gets 4 Marder for regular deployment.
Last year, it actually it looked like they wanted to send Panzergrenadiere from Panzergrenadier-Bataillon 212 to 'Stan ... yeah, Panzergrenadiere to the Front!! Oh, wait, didn't we have that before :( ... However, they wanted to send the whole bunch, completly with MTW with 120mm Tampella mortars .. but in 2008 those turned out to have become unusuable during all those years of conscripts handling :o (Source isn't that reliable, though: http://www.uni-kassel.de/fb5/frieden/regionen/Afghanistan/bundeswehr3.html)

I'm not sure, but from that I understand they send the PzGr not only without mortars, but without APCs as well?!? Or are those 4 Marder which can be seen securing the camp actually those 4 which belong to the PzGr Komp ?

Why do they want to send 4 more, then ???

While I wouldn't rate Marder as heavy weapons by todays standard ... did you notice the Milan launcher of those pics above? I wonder how Milans will do against those mud huts. At least it will be an opportunity to get rid of all those old missiles which wouldn't be of any use otherwise ;) .. if they are still usuable, that is :rolleyes:

I wonder if 'Stan will last long enough for the first Pumas to be deployed there ... if anyone is interested in doing some scenarios or a small campaign, I would like to contribute some ideas ;)

[Marek_Tucan]

Javelins seem to do OK against Mud Huts, so MILAN should do as well, but it's a bit expensive... Though maybe not as much as ecological disposal of the missiles :)

[redcoat2]

The German media has reported that the Bundewehr has relocated Marders from Mazar-e-Sharif to Kunduz and used them in a combat mission for the first time.

Der Spiegel (in English) (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,637646,00.html)

Frankfurter Allgemeine (in German) (http://www.faz.net/s/RubDDBDABB9457A437BAA85A49C26FB23A0/Doc~EC1243398FB8E49DF9D79D97F0E1688A3~ATpl~Ecommon ~Scontent.html)

Europe World News (in English) (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/278492,german-military-in-largest-afghan-offensive-to-date--update.html)

The English language news reports seem to have referred to the Marders as tanks. Something was lost in translation methinks.

[Double_Deuce]

The English language news reports seem to have referred to the Marders as tanks. Something was lost in translation methinks.
To most civilian Marders are tanks, same as they see the Bradley. Whats really said though is I know 19D's who also thought the Bradley was tank. :re: