Jomon: Fishing for Dragons?

[Starshine_Monarch]

Since patch 3.22 came out, I'd been hoping someone would share their ideas on the best ways for Jomon to get underwater. They'd gotten all sorts of cool new units from the last few patches, but you need an underwater fort to actually get to some of them.

In SP, I haven't really had a lot of success getting under the water, so I'm looking for other opinions on the following questions:

What do you think is the best way to get underwater with Jomon?

How would the new underwater units be put to use?

How would Jomon be able to hold off or defeat other LA nations that can get underwater, especially Rl'yeh?

How would Jomon age into later stages of the game with these new options?

[Swan]

i voted for a thug, as is pretty easy to make a small thug force with water breathing item.

[chrispedersen]

The new units are cool but insufficient to stop you from gettin pwned by any real water nation.

Problem is by the time you get a castle built *Hello! I'm invading your waters!) he has 2-3 at the least.

Add to that the uncertainty of starting near a coast, the general suck-o nature of jomons land troops... It would be better if jomon just had an underwater start...

[Gregstrom]

The new units are cool but insufficient to stop you from gettin pwned by any real water nation.

Do you mean R'lyeh freespawn, or LA Atlantis?

I don't think Jomon is a major underwater power by any means, but those troops and some dragons for mage firepower ought to be able to hold a few provinces.

The difficulty is getting into the water before it's all taken. If you have an underwater presence by the time R'lyeh gets to you, I reckon there's a fair chance you'll be able to make a deal.

[Trumanator]

What you really want to find is a nice little lake province.

[Frozen Lama]

what about a wyrm pretender? he can hold out for a while, assuming you get the fort up asap

[Trumanator]

Wyrm can pretty easily lose against R'lyeh by hitting the 50 turn limit, since he only has 2 attacks, can't hold a brand, and his fear aura is useless against mindless troops. The awe I'm assuming you gave him is also useless, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if he actually died, unless you went and put E on him for some reason...

[elmokki]

In the few singleplayer games I've tried I found that Lady of Rivers or whatever she is called seemed to be the most useful way to get underwater - rather than taking a wyrm and good scales I rather had her and some magic.

Jomon's troops' biggest problem is having no shield - and underwater you don't need a shield. The poor amphibian penalty isn't too bad since your units have above average stats anyway.

Sure, as soon as you are under water you want proper underwater troops, but before that it'll do.

I did try a cyclops with underwater breathing item, but it seems far more risky.