Nox. MA+LA. Unexpectedly ended

[ano]

Games start rarely now (probably because it is summer) so I've decided to create a new one. Perhaps not everyone is on holiday now:)
Game link (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=_Nox_)

Settings:
Host - Llamaserver. Please read the FAQ (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160) if you don't know how to use it
Era - MA + LA
Map - Alexander (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//attachment.php?attachmentid=5900&d=1199233709) by PashaDawg, balanced fixed start positions not tied to specific nations. .map file is attached
Mods - All required mods are attached (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8422&stc=1&d=1246543896). You have to unzip the archive to mods subfolder of a folder with Dominions
namely: Single Age, Worthy Heroes 1.8, CBM 1.5 (Pretenders and scales only), Streamers and Standards mod.
Please note that you need to have "CBM 1.5: Pretenders" and "CBM 1.5: Scales" enabled when creating your god
Players - 15
Hosting schedule - 24h for the first 18 turns. Discussable after that.
Victory condition - conquer 6 capitals and hold them for 3 turns.
Sites - 50%
Renaming - on
HoF - 15
Indies - 6
Graphs - off (use scouting)
Rest - standard

Signed up (only MA and LA nations):
MA Agartha - Alpine Joe
MA Pythium - Natpy
MA Ulm - Ossa
MA Ermor - DomDomDom
MA R'lyeh - Hoplosternum
MA Abysia - Dragar
MA Bandar Log - BandarLover
MA Mictlan - Bwaha

LA R'lyeh - Squirrelloid
LA Patala - danbo
LA T'ien Ch'i - sansanjuan
LA Mictlan - chrispedersen
LA Gath - ano
LA Midgard - Executor
LA Agartha - Revolution


Some more notes:
- the more experienced you are the better.
- two water nations
- LA Ermor banned
- disallowed exploits: copying Bogus' orders and overfilling enemy lab to prevent his own forge.

[Alpine Joe]

Summer means lots of time for me....

In as MA Agartha

[ano]

I really hope you won't stale as you did in Heracles:)

[Alpine Joe]

Heracles was a bad time for me. I will be more committed to this game, I promise. If you need proof check out the other games where I am not staling. I deserve the reproach though. Perhaps you just fear the power of MA agartha :)

[ano]

Who knows:)

[Natpy]

MA Pythium please

[Kietsensei]

I am in. I would like to play as LA Pythium

[Squirrelloid]

LA Rlyeh please.

[danbo]

I'm in and would like to play LA Patala.

[sansanjuan]

I'll give LA Tien Chi a wing.

-ssj

[chrispedersen]

LA-Mictlan

[Ossa]

MA Ulm please

[chrispedersen]

Three other games have opened up.. do we want to start with 9?

[ano]

No, I think we'll wait for at least 12.
I see only 2 other games - water based one and YARG by WraithLord. They both are rather specific.

p.s. It's a strange thing that people decided to create their games right after I created this one. No games appeared for a very long time.

[sansanjuan]

Ano,

Could you post the direct link to Standards mod for Single age ?
Tnx
-ssj

[ano]

Actually I'm not an expert as I never played with it but mod from this post (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989) works fine in my tests with this Single age mod (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=608870&postcount=41) version.

By now we don't really need the banners mod as there seem to be no flag conflicts.

[DomDomDom]

Ready to join as MA Ermor.

[ano]

Welcome!

[DomDomDom]

Nox is my first game on this forum, but it seems half of the players are from AG/Ucoz community.:)

[ano]

Not a half. You'll be the fourth.

[ano]

Seems that we need only 1 water and 1 land nation to start.

[Executor]

What the hell, sign me up for Midgard.
I'd take the water nation but ain't no way I'm going against R'lyeh.

[ano]

Do you really think that R'lyeh is that terrifying now?
I'd take the water nation if I didn't want to play Abysia:)

[Squirrelloid]

Bwahahaha, fear me!

[Executor]

I don't think they are THAT terrifying.
I just don't want to fight a war that's gonna cost me the game with all the income loss and mages gone crazy. Been there before.

[Hoplosternum]

I will take the last water nation if it's still available. MA R'Lyeh please.

[ano]

Fine. So we'll have R'lyeh duel:)
Guys, do you think it's worth waiting or we should start right away?

Map is rather big and perhaps 12 players is not many. But I'm ok either way as I already have a balanced map version for 10+2.

[Executor]

O ****! The map is Alexander?
I do hate this map, but I do want to try out Midgard.

Anyway, I'm good with whatever number of players, just get this thing started as soon as possible!

[ano]

Why do you hate it?
//just curious

[Executor]

It's not very easy on the eyes, the mountain areas at least.
Made me do some dreadful mistakes way back in Beer game, another reason.

[ano]

I may have not tried many but in my opinion it is one of the best maps available now. I usually add some minor balance fixes and starting locations. All this will be listed when I post the ".map" file here.

[chrispedersen]

How about the legends maps..

[ano]

I like Alexander:)

[Alpine Joe]

How many provinces per player on alexander?

[ano]

289 provinces for 12 people is probably too sparse.

[Executor]

We should have about 15 players.

[Alpine Joe]

As much as I would love an open map for my nation, I feel like almost 25 per player is too much. Unfortunately I can't suggest any other map options save maybe orania.

[ano]

I think we'll just wait for 3 more people and that's it. Hopefully it won't be too long.
The problem is that I don't want to play without predefined starts because it is always unbalanced and too random and I don't know any other map as well as Alexander to make starting locs balanced. That's why I tend to choose this map

[chrispedersen]

I'll go with whatever ano, but I think we've picked up 1? 2 in 5 days?

I'll see if I can get a couple of others to play.

[ano]

We picked up 3 people in 2 days and we are short of 3 more. If you found someone, I'd appreciate this.

[Executor]

I wouldn't mind seeing a few more good players here to spice it up a bit.

[ano]

Well, at least four people here are really good, believe me. But the more the better, of course :).

[Executor]

My dream here is to see an all veteran game some day, but that's probably never gonna happen.

Would you mind telling me which 4 players? :) I'd like to know who I should be extra careful from the start, except Chris, you manipulative devil! :)

[ano]

No, I won't tell. Also, it is only about those whom I know and they're not too many. You are included, btw:):)

[Executor]

No, I won't tell. Also, it is only about those whom I know and they're not too many. You are included, btw:):)

WOOO HOOO!!!

[ano]

Why woo hooo?? :)
After Beer and Timewarp I'd say you're one of the strongest players at this forum. Just a fact, nothing personal:)

[chrispedersen]

Yep Exec is *way* strong. Wonders who the 4 are = ). Hop, Squirrel, Ossa, Exec are all really good. Of course ano too...

I know squirrel doesn't have a track record, but he has solid game knowledge.

Personally, I'd rank it

Exec,
Ossa
Hop
Squirrel...

[Dragar]

I'm in, MA Abysia

[Squirrelloid]

Yep Exec is *way* strong. Wonders who the 4 are = ). Hop, Squirrel, Ossa, Exec are all really good. Of course ano too...

I know squirrel doesn't have a track record, but he has solid game knowledge.

Personally, I'd rank it

Exec,
Ossa
Hop
Squirrel...

I'm honestly flattered. You haven't seen me completely fail mid/late game yet. Actually, I haven't either. But I really have no experience with what other live bodies are going to do once the crazy starts.

[Hoplosternum]

Yep Exec is *way* strong. Wonders who the 4 are = ). Hop, Squirrel, Ossa, Exec are all really good. Of course ano too...

I know squirrel doesn't have a track record, but he has solid game knowledge.

Personally, I'd rank it

Exec,
Ossa
Hop
Squirrel...

Hop being short for Chrispedersen in this case ;) I am fairly sure the four would be (in no particular order):

Ano,
Ossa,
Chrispedersen,
Executor

Squirrel having written a guide (on the power he's playing!) and doing well in the one mp game I know he's in. He's doubtless going to become / already is a very good player but hasn't been proved to be so in mp yet :)

[Squirrelloid]

Yep Exec is *way* strong. Wonders who the 4 are = ). Hop, Squirrel, Ossa, Exec are all really good. Of course ano too...

I know squirrel doesn't have a track record, but he has solid game knowledge.

Personally, I'd rank it

Exec,
Ossa
Hop
Squirrel...

Hop being short for Chrispedersen in this case ;) I am fairly sure the four would be (in no particular order):

Ano,
Ossa,
Chrispedersen,
Executor

Squirrel having written a guide (on the power he's playing!) and doing well in the one mp game I know he's in. He's doubtless going to become / already is a very good player but hasn't been proved to be so in mp yet :)

Yeah, i got to handwaive the lategame bits because lets face it, you've got mages with good ESD which means your late game is trivially referenceable. We'll see if it being common knowledge means I can actually apply it in a rational way.

(Not to disparage my guide - but much of its point was "you don't have to mitigate your dominion - it is a weapon").

[chrispedersen]

heh heh

You completely trashed me in at least one game we played hop.
Utter destruction. And of course Exec has as well in Beer, Jim in Glory.

But thanks for the vote of confidence.

[chrispedersen]

I'm thinking Dragar signing up so fast means he likes his new Abysia strategy. So do I = ).

[ano]

What new strategy?

[Dragar]

yeah, what new strategy?

[ano]

Perhaps chris wants to share his new Abysia strategy with you, Dragar:)
We are now short of only two people, btw.

[Black Sun Empire]

If my version of the game makes it tonight, I will gladly join this game. The BIGGEST problem will be the fact I am a complete newbie. This will be my first MP game, so I should only make up the numbers for the first 10-20 rounds, before getting smashed.

[ano]

Perhaps it is better for you to join one of the newbie games that start from time to time?
Though I don't mind you joining I have to warn you that it won't be easy. Also, be positive. When you say yourself "I'll hold for 20 turns and then fall" you'll fall earlier. When you say "I'll do my best to be competitive" you'll last longer:)

[Black Sun Empire]

I plan on attempting as many games as possible, newbie and vet games. At worst I will learn some scripting and tactics that work.

I don't play many games to just make up the numbers, so I will attempt to cause as much pain as possible. :)

Still, I have to wait for the game to arrive, which I hope it should be here by tonight or tomorrow.

[Dragar]

I have faith in Black Sun Empire, he's a quick learner :)

[ano]

Ok then, with Dragar's patronage you're in, Black Sun Empire. Choose your nation.

[Black Sun Empire]

LA Utgard - There about as close to a nation as I've tried.

[Kietsensei]

I am afraid I didn't think about the fact I already have too much game I cannot handle. SO I would like to leaveand let another player take my place. SOrry about that but I don't want to leave you after the game have started.
Good luck to all of you!

[Jarkko]

I like the map, my very bestest favourite (LA Pan) seems to be open, I like the way Ano GM's (just seen him in action in Heracles, but still)... But I see this game has the graphs off and that is the fun-killing factor to me, and thus I won't sign up for this :(

I hope you soon find the players to fill the last spots and get the game going :)

[Executor]

Why woo hooo?? :)
After Beer and Timewarp I'd say you're one of the strongest players at this forum. Just a fact, nothing personal:)

Errr, I don't remember you being in either Beer or Timewarp?


C'mon people take MA Pangaea, graphs off!!!

[ano]

2Jarkko:
Thanks for your compliment. I really like things running smoothly in my games and do everything for it.
I'd really appreciate you being in though because:
1) I liked playing with you
2) Closed graphs (I prefer to play with either closed graphs or limited diplo) are absolutely natural restriction. In real word there will never be a good guy who tells you each and every detail about your enemies. Learning to use scouting effectively really makes your strategic skills grow. Also, games with closed graphs are nearly never endless because it is harder to catch some empire growing too much. But it is no more harder if you know how to deploy your intelligence resources.

Why are open graphs so much fun for you?

p.s. The only Era that should be played with graphs open, IMO, is early, due to the natural lack of independent scouts.

2Executor
Errr, I don't remember you being in either Beer or Timewarp?
I was a watching shadow:)

[Executor]

I support graphs off. Much more interesting IMO, and less chance of being ganged upon. :)

Ano,
Any idea on where to find CBM pretenders and scales since the link on Llamaserver leads to nowhere?

[ano]

Yes, that was my mistake. I uploaded it there but somehow provided an incorrect link.
You can get CBM split version from CBM discussion thread at Mods section but I'll soon post a compilation of required mods here.

[ano]

A compilation of required mods has been attached. You need to unzip it to your "mods" folder.

[ano]

I also created started locs for 15 players and attached the .map file to the first post.
If you don't want to download, they are:
21, 239, 284, 96, 203, 44, 144, 280, 118, 217, 242, 146, 281, 147 and 75

[Jarkko]

are open graphs so much fun for you?
I have a strong board-game back-ground (Diplomacy, Avalon Hill and GDW games, etc). I am used to play double-blind games (my all time favourite for grand-strategy is the Euro Front series from Columbia Games) with limited info where I have to use spies/scouts/what-ever to gather correct intelligence. But most of all I am used to gain a general view of the game with a single glance on the map, so that it can be used as the basis for diplomatic actions. That single glance in Dominions is the stats page, and it is quite difficult for me to adjust myself to that, and there seems to be absolutely limited basis for diplomacy then. In effect, the fun-factor for me is missing then.

Notice, I understand well others prefer the information limited. I used to be that like myself in 80's when playing PBM Diplomacy :) But then I grew out of it ;) :D

[Hoplosternum]

A compilation of required mods has been attached. You need to unzip it to your "mods" folder.

I believe I have all the mods already. But I'll download them all just in case.

However I thought I could just use standard CBM 1.5 to make my Pretender as isn't the rest of it is just ignored by the game? It's whats on the game creaters pc that count? I thought the only mods you needed for creating a valid pretender are those that affect Pretender design. And that will be the same between full CBM and just the scales/pretenders version won't it?

[ano]

Yes, it should be so. But I just don't know for sure:)
What I suggested is a safe way to do everything smoothly

[ano]

bump
Some wonderful nations are still free. Maybe you guys ask someone you know if they want to play?:)

[BandarLover]

I'm not exactly a newb, per se. I've played in about 6 MP games, even made it to late game in one of them, but all of my MP experience was about 2 years ago and I'd like to give this another try. If that's ok, I'd like to go with Bandar Log.

P.S. I didn't notice if this was being played on a server or by email, so if someone would please remind me of the steps for getting started either way (ie- uploading pretender, is it the 2h file we send if playing email style, etc.) that would be much appreciated. Thanks

[ano]

Welcome on board, BandarLover:)!.
This game is played with llamaserver as the most of the games nowadays are. Sorry for not mentioning this. I'll add the information to the first post shortly and will probably also create the game so that you'll be able to upload your pretenders.

[ano]

Game has been created. It has a bit ugly name but that's only because llamaserver requires names at least 5 characters long (don't know why)
You are free to upload you pretenders now (I hope we'll have the last person shortly). Tell me if something goes wrong.

[BandarLover]

Is the tga file for the map missing? I tried to start a test game using it, and got the mapnot found error and did not notice the tga for Alexander in my maps folder. Anyone else getting this?

[ano]

No, it's not missing. There's a link to the map discussion thread in the first post.
Here it is (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//attachment.php?attachmentid=5900&d=1199233709)

[ano]

Also, while we were waiting I decided to change my nation and take Gath. Hope this doesn't cause objections

[BandarLover]

Thanks for the map link, Alexander works for me now.

What is the IP for this game's server? I didn't notice it in the game link. I think I got my pretender down how I want and am ready to upload.

[ano]

Llamaserver is an automated PBEM server so no IP. You make your turn, send your .2h to turns_at_llamaserver_dot_net and receive a new turn once it is hosted. Please read the FAQ if you're unfamiliar with it. Link is in the first post.

[Revolution]

Thanks for the map link, Alexander works for me now.

What is the IP for this game's server? I didn't notice it in the game link. I think I got my pretender down how I want and am ready to upload.

read the llamaserver FAQ

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160

[ano]

Don't you want to join, Revolution?:)
I would be really glad to see you in

[Revolution]

I'm thinking about it.

[ano]

A lot of good nations and the last spot are still available:)

[Revolution]

OK, LA Agartha.

[BandarLover]

Pretender uploaded.

Thank you Revolution for the link, I'd actually checked it out on the llamaserver page, but was 2 posts down and didn't see the steps for uploading and taking game turns. Brilliant! :doh:

Going to work soon, so if this game gets started today, my turn will be done later tonight.

[ano]

No, no. The game will 100% not be started today. Probably, Monday or Tuesday - once everyone uploads their gods.

Glad to see you in, Revolution:)

[Hoplosternum]

Good because I probably can't upload my Pretender until Sunday evening :)

[ano]

6 of 15 pretenders in. Guys, could you please hurry up a bit so that we could start Tuesday?

[Squirrelloid]

6 of 15 pretenders in. Guys, could you please hurry up a bit so that we could start Tuesday?

Mine should be submitted sometime tonight.

[chrispedersen]

its July 4th weekend .. lot of people out of town.

I should have mine in within 24 hours

[Squirrelloid]

Quick question - if we have CBM 1.5, do we need to dl the CBM component mods you're using? Or will it extract the appropriate mod components from the complete CBM to run? (Pretender was submitted with no problems, so...)

[ano]

I don't know for sure.
It seems to me that the game checks the validity of pretender after first turn generation. So probably, pretender created under full version of CBM 1.5 will be ok.
Also, Black Sun Empire still didn't receive his game copy. Probably, if he doesn't in two days we'll have to open his slot.

[Black Sun Empire]

Came home and my copy of the game is still not here, I will have to pull out.

[ano]

Ok, if your copy arrives before we find another player you'll still be able to jump in. For now I reopened the game

[Bwaha]

Hello, I would like MA Mictlan. :D

[ano]

Ok. Nice to hear we're full again:)

[chrispedersen]

balanced fixed starting positions...

May I ask the criteria for "balanced".. many times this means starting positions will exclude coastal provinces due to lack of neighbors.

I'm not sure how I feel about it, but would like to know for reference purposes..

[ano]

Criteria is always personal experience including experience with particular map. Mine is vast.
No, coasts are not excluded, of course. The list of provinces is given, .map file is also given. You may always create a game with Debug mod and cast Eyes of Debug (easiest way to see everything).

Feel free to ask me for any details.

[ano]

I think we only wait for Natpy and Revolution

[chrispedersen]

I believe there are a few errors on the map

(checking my notes...)....

43, 25 should have fresh water (as there is a river)
But 25, whould probably be a waste without water, as thats what the graphic is. Currently its listed as farm.

276 should not have multisites, or it should have the multisite graphic

214 should probably not be small, as its neighbors, which are smaller, are not.

[ano]

I am sorry I didn't post it here. I made some modifications to the original for Heracles game to tweak it a bit but forgot to mention this.
Yes, 19 and 25 were made farms instead of wastelands because otherwise the appropriate regions are both deadly to start into. Also, I made 279 large due to similar reasons.

The other problems you mention must have probably come with the original map. I don't think they are too important and I'll probably fix them when preparing the next game (or even for this game - today, if I'm not too sleepy). Most probably there're other problems as well but I don't really think they have major influence on the game.

p.s. As for the fresh water, original map's description says that there're no fresh water in wastelands so your first point is not a problem most probably.

[ano]

Btw, we have 8 MA nations vs 7 LA. Interesting duel, isn't it?)
However, I'd bet that majority won't win this game, you middleagers! :fight:

[ano]

Also, we may have several interesting duels: monkey duel, illithid duel, jaguar duel and cave duel.
There could have been a warlock duel but I surrendered without a fight with Dragar:)

[Dragar]

Ah, why'd you pull out of abysia ano? I've never had an abysia vs abysia duel before, would have been interesting. Take fire out of the equation altogether and it would be fun seeing how abysia would fight each other, especially as MA and LA are quite similar

Alternately we could have spread global warming together!

Oh well, one less blood power to compete with Chris's mictlan..

[ano]

Actually I felt that Gath is more tasty. It was an enemy of Abysia for ages, according to the legend, btw.
And we're also not against warming and blood:)

[BandarLover]

I sent my 2h file to the llama server address last night but it shows I haven't taken my turn yet. Does it take that long to update or did I do something wrong? :o

[ano]

Try resending.
Send it (as specified in llamaserver FAQ) to turns(at)llamaserver(dot)net with _Nox_ in the letter topic.

[BandarLover]

I sent it to the right address, but did not put NOX in the subject now that I think about it. resending now

[ano]

Not "Nox" but "_Nox_". Llamaserver doesn't allow game names shorter than 5 symbols. I really don't know why.

[Alpine Joe]

I don't think you need the game name in the subject line for sending in turns. For me it is only necessary when sending in my pretender.

[ano]

You are mistaken, AJ. How do you think llamaserver should understand which game is your file for?

[BandarLover]

I sent the 2h file but I keep getting replies that I'm trying to send a pretender file to a game already in progress. it is turns at llamaservers dot net right?

Somehow I knew I'd be the one messing this up :o

[ano]

Probably you are
- either trying to send to pretenders(at)llamaserver(dot)net
- or you are sending not your turn from the game folder but your pretender from newlords folder

[BandarLover]

it's neither. I send the mid_bandar.2h file to the turns addy, but I keep getting replies from the pretender addy with my 2h file attached to it saying I am sending a pretender file to a game in progress. I am at a loss at how to proceed. Mayhap Llama can enlighten us.

[ano]

Could you please contact llamabeast and describe your problem? I don't know what it might be.

[llamabeast]

You are mistaken, AJ. How do you think llamaserver should understand which game is your file for?

AJ is not mistaken. The answer is of course that the server is magic. Seriously though, it's worth testing before telling someone they're wrong. You do, however, need the game name when sending in pretenders.

Also on the server trivia front, whether you send it to pretenders@ or turns@ doesn't really matter (IIRC), you just get different error messages in the two cases if it doesn't work. i.e. the server just treats the address as a clue as to what you were trying to do if it hits an error. Generally it works out what to do with the file from the file itself.

BandarLover - well, it seems to me that one way or another you are sending in a pretender file rather than a 2h file, although it's a very curious thing to happen. What I would do: delete the file in question. Take your turn again. It should reappear. If not maybe you are in the wrong folder. If you have no luck though, send it to me (llamabeast@...) and I'll take a look. Maybe there is an obscure bug somewhere.

[ano]

Hm, llamabeast, I am surprised indeed.
How do you differentiate two turns for one nation sent into different games from same email? By particular game accepting or rejecting the turn? And if, say, all games reject the turn what error message do you show?

And yes, I am sorry for telling AJ he is wrong without checking:).

[BandarLover]

ok, I did as llama suggested and redid my turn, thank God it's only turn 1. :D

here's hoping I didn't screw it all up! *crosses fingers*

[Alpine Joe]

the only apologies I accept contain death gems :)

[ano]

I don't have death gems so probably I'll remain unforgiven:).

[Bwaha]

I notice that the turn isn't set to run till Thursday.

Did someone ask for a delay?

[ano]

No. It is normal situation for the first turn. It lasts two days to let people dive into the game and solve possible problems.
Alpine Joe said he will send his turn soon so hopefully we won't have to wait until Thursday:)

[Bwaha]

Okay, thanks... :D

[Bwaha]

While your waiting, you might take a look at Mud and Blood 2.

Its a flash defense game based on the Battle of The Bulge.

The object is to see how long you can survive... :D

http://www.kongregate.com/games/urbz/mud-and-blood-2

[Squirrelloid]

Well I'm basically out of the game already due to a totally implausible event. My pretender should *never* lose to 30 icthyids. That's just ****ing retarded. Hell, my pretender shouldn't lose to sea trolls and krakens, losing to icthyids is like getting kicked in the crotch repeatedly.

There's also no way for me to recover from this. I'll stick around and play out my (likely short) lifespan, but I'm not going to do anything remotely useful.

(I seriously ran this opening 100 times and never lost a blind engagement. I notably beat harder opposition consistently, and beat up to 60 ichthyids without a problem. The RNG has apparently decided to hate me. He beats 80 clan amber tritons without batting an eyebrow, for example).

[Revolution]

Well I'm basically out of the game already due to a totally implausible event. My pretender should *never* lose to 30 icthyids. That's just ****ing retarded. Hell, my pretender shouldn't lose to sea trolls and krakens, losing to icthyids is like getting kicked in the crotch repeatedly.

There's also no way for me to recover from this. I'll stick around and play out my (likely short) lifespan, but I'm not going to do anything remotely useful.

(I seriously ran this opening 100 times and never lost a blind engagement. I notably beat harder opposition consistently, and beat up to 60 ichthyids without a problem. The RNG has apparently decided to hate me. He beats 80 clan amber tritons without batting an eyebrow, for example).

Nets are quite dangerous.

[Squirrelloid]

Well I'm basically out of the game already due to a totally implausible event. My pretender should *never* lose to 30 icthyids. That's just ****ing retarded. Hell, my pretender shouldn't lose to sea trolls and krakens, losing to icthyids is like getting kicked in the crotch repeatedly.

There's also no way for me to recover from this. I'll stick around and play out my (likely short) lifespan, but I'm not going to do anything remotely useful.

(I seriously ran this opening 100 times and never lost a blind engagement. I notably beat harder opposition consistently, and beat up to 60 ichthyids without a problem. The RNG has apparently decided to hate me. He beats 80 clan amber tritons without batting an eyebrow, for example).

Nets are quite dangerous.

Not really. He beats 60 of them usually, after all. He wasn't even netted when they hit and broke him - they did the usual exchange of net/break net with no complications.

Unlikely events:
Single hit for >30 damage
Single hit causes pretender to route

[Squirrelloid]

Stupid editing time limits...

To hit me they need to overcome the following:
Awe +0 vs. morale 13 (70% chance to bypass)
Ethereal (25% chance to bypass)
Def 15 vs. Att 10 (14% chance) - i realize this goes up over time, except 'misses' due to ethereal and awe don't count as attacks for the multiple attacks against you penalty.

In addition, it requires them to not have broken vs. Fear +9 by turn 5 of melee (morale 13 vs. 11 = 62% chance to not break each turn) when the strike occurred. (And of course, their morale is actually decreasing that entire time - it was 4-6 for the entire squad when they hit him). Assuming constant 13 morale that's a 38% chance to break every turn, or a ~9% chance to not have broken before their 5th strike.

So, there are 11 ichthyids in base contact the entire time (they were faster than the other, non-net bearing ichthyids, who didn't get there until it was over, and who broke immediately upon entering the fear radius). Ignoring the P(they break), they each have a ~2.5% chance of hitting, which is low enough that the benefit from being a second strike doesn't actually come into play often enough to matter. That's an expected 1 hit per 4 rounds. And it gets worse as their morale plummets because the Awe becomes more effective.

And I have Twist Fate cast, which negates that hit.

So, still assuming constant morale, the odds that they score at least 2 hits in five rounds overall look something like the following:

P(fail fear round 2) * P(2 hits round 1|11 attacks) + P(fail fear round 3) + P(2 hits round 1+2) + ...

Except then we have to subtract off inconvenient bits and the like. So even granting they make it to round 5 its...

= (55 choose 2) * P(hit) ^2 * P(no hit)^53

= 1485 * .000625 * .261 = .24, or a 24% chance of dealing damage even once.

Now, you expect them to inflict 13 damage before protection/random bonus is taken into account, which makes the likelihood of a sufficiently damaging event to cause the pretender to break is small even given a hit. 10% is rather generous, and that drops us down to a 2.4% event. 13 + drn vs. protection + drn doesn't result in *30* damage even that often. Assuming that protection is 0 and the drn is snakeeyes, the attacker's drn would have to be 19, which requires at least 2 6's to be rolled (with a 5 and a 4), making it a 1/150 type of event. Once we figure in the protection drn it becomes even rarer.

So ballparking, the odds of my pretender losing that battle are somewhere down around .1-.01%, and certainly no greater than .1%. And that's ignoring (1) they break before 5 rounds of melee complete and (2) their morale decreases due to fear over the course of the combat (makes Awe better). That probably makes it a .001% event with an upper bound around .01%.

Edit: I didn't take into account more than 2 hits. The third hit events adds another .6% (irrelevant for ballparking, its not an OoM). The fourth+ hit events add insignificant amounts. So consider the P(2+ hits|55 attacks) = ~.246

[Dragar]

Definitely very unlucky, slight comments on risk assessment:

Am pretty sure failed attacks still reduce your defence.. so the chance of getting past your defence is very high for the later attackers, ignoring ethereal/fear/awe

Did you have any fatigue?

Lastly, chance of improbable failure MP >>> chance of improbable failure SP


Lastly for real - why did a retreat make your pretender die? Why didn't you just return to home province if routing?

[Squirrelloid]

Definitely very unlucky, slight comments on risk assessment:

Am pretty sure failed attacks still reduce your defence.. so the chance of getting past your defence is very high for the later attackers, ignoring ethereal/fear/awe

Did you have any fatigue?

Lastly, chance of improbable failure MP >>> chance of improbable failure SP


Lastly for real - why did a retreat make your pretender die? Why didn't you just return to home province if routing?

The little buggers still hadn't routed to fear, and were faster than me, so chased me down (and managed to hit me again, which I suppose is also incredibly unlikely in its own right)

No more than 5 fatigue from casting Twist Fate.

[chrispedersen]

I don't believe you really ran it 60 times, without losing.
Nets are dangerous - but even more than that, lack of dominion in the target province will cost you hp, strength, and MR.

*Plus* if you attack with troops, you will lose the morale bonus.

A few comments:

A. Multiple attacks still negate defense. *you* don't know etherealness is going to kick in - so you still flinch.
B. When you route, you have -4 (iir) to your defense, so it is much more likely to hit - plus your opponent gets a free attmpt for you leaving the Zoc.
C. For them to break from fear, they have to not only take morale losses, but they have to take casualties (wounds or deaths) to *prompt* the morale check. So essentially, until some of them are wounded, (or receive a morale check from other sources, like wailing winds etc) there is 0% chance.
Additionally, they get the +1 home territory, perhaps.


Thats why you can see a whole squad of 0 morale troops still attacking.

D. Units of 4 or less, (including gods) are subject to the rule of 4: Ie., if you take *any* damage you are subject to route. (pg 80) via morale check.
And remember that you were lower on hp; to get the wounded modifier you only had to lose 25%. But more importantly, once a morale check is called for the

morale roll (squad morale + DRN + 5) >? 13 + DRN. As the DRN's are open ended, more or less every round you take damage you're subject to an open ended roll.

E. Finally, fatigue was probably a factor. After turn3, you were (possibly) greater than fatigue 10, reducing defense, and (possibly) increasing a crit chance.

I'm fairly sure against 30 opponents.. twist fate actually increased the chance of someone hitting you (one turn earlier than it usually would have happened).

The gods roll dice. Sorry yours came up 00 this time man.

The good thing is LA-R Freespawns will call God for free = )

[chrispedersen]

amen on the editing time limits;

"Once one net hits, all the other attacks will hit, due to the tanglevines spell effect. I also don't know whether you were subject to repels. Again, even 1 pt of damage is enough to enable the morale flee.

I'm fairly sure against 30 opponents.. twist fate actually increased the chance of someone hitting you (one turn earlier than it usually would have happened).

That really does suck man- but theres only a very few pretenders I'll attack blind with. I'd figure your chance of losing at maybe 5-10%. "

[Squirrelloid]

Well, I didn't get hit while netted, so that wasn't even really a factor.

They did get wounded (or slain) every turn i managed to attack. So i guess i only provoked 2-3 fear checks since 2 turns i had to shrug off nets. But their morale was lower than 13 at that point...

And I had no source of fatigue except casting twist fate. Reasonably certain it's a 0 fatigue attack since GKs don't wear armor. You only aquire fatigue from attacking as i recall - maybe i'm wrong, but i don't recall units gaining fatigue from being attacked (barring special attacks), and i've looked.

No, the unrecoverable part is the loss of magic paths - there's no way i can come back from the severe neutering of my pretender and the cumulative lack of expansion his death implies. Yeah, he'll be back at some time i'm sure.

As to attacking blind - i'd have attacked 30 ichthiids knowing they were there. The only thing i'd hesitate about is large numbers of trolls and/or krakens. And that's both rare and also an expected win. (Its just the potential damage is high enough to be worrying).

...How does twist fate increase the odds of an attack hitting you anyway? By giving you fatigue?

Failing a check vs. 30 morale is kinda ridiculous... but eh.

Also: I thought you counted the province you were attacking *from* for determining hp.

[Dragar]

Yeah the fatigue - the lowering of attack and defence at 5 fatigue is minimal, but it gives a slight chance of a critical and thus ignoring your protection

[chrispedersen]

Well, I didn't get hit while netted, so that wasn't even really a factor.

They did get wounded (or slain) every turn i managed to attack. So i guess i only provoked 2-3 fear checks since 2 turns i had to shrug off nets. But their morale was lower than 13 at that point...

And I had no source of fatigue except casting twist fate. Reasonably certain it's a 0 fatigue attack since GKs don't wear armor. You only aquire fatigue from attacking as i recall - maybe i'm wrong, but i don't recall units gaining fatigue from being attacked (barring special attacks), and i've looked.

No, the unrecoverable part is the loss of magic paths - there's no way i can come back from the severe neutering of my pretender and the cumulative lack of expansion his death implies. Yeah, he'll be back at some time i'm sure.

As to attacking blind - i'd have attacked 30 ichthiids knowing they were there. The only thing i'd hesitate about is large numbers of trolls and/or krakens. And that's both rare and also an expected win. (Its just the potential damage is high enough to be worrying).

...How does twist fate increase the odds of an attack hitting you anyway? By giving you fatigue?

Failing a check vs. 30 morale is kinda ridiculous... but eh.

Also: I thought you counted the province you were attacking *from* for determining hp.


Oh, you did this with a GK? I thought you had a kraken. There's no way in hell I'd do it with a GK. They're fragile.

Essentially, all you have to do to lose with a GK is get hit for 50% of your hitpoints. Which you're probably talking is somewhere between 5-15dam.

After that, you're going to take a morale check every round - and again the tyranny of the DRN is two chances for an open ended 6. Every round for 50 rounds.

PLUS with a GK - and hit that occurs is going to have a significant chance of afflicting you.

PLUS even if you weren't hit while netted, you have to use your attacks to become unentangled - so you're not causing damage, aka inflicting a morale check.

PLUS - the chance of attacking a hydromancer blind is too high - since the hydromancer will cast water strikes which will bypass ethereal.

Water adds encumbrance for poor amphibians, but I do not remember if it affects undead. Battle replay would show that = )

[ano]

Well, all has been said. It's up to you, Squirreloid whether to leave the game, of course. Obviously, it is no good. But I might add from myself that you will learn sooner or later why attacking blindly on the first turn is... unwise. Kraken is probably the safest for this but I do remember slayed Krakens as well.
Chris said everything. GK is really fragile, has no regen and once he gets hit, he has a much increased chance to root. Ichtyids, OTOH, are really dangerous with their nets that severely lower defense. Also, they have wonderful morale and it is well known that they're dangerous for early SC's. So, I'm not surprised here.

[Squirrelloid]

Well, all has been said. It's up to you, Squirreloid whether to leave the game, of course. Obviously, it is no good. But I might add from myself that you will learn sooner or later why attacking blindly on the first turn is... unwise. Kraken is probably the safest for this but I do remember slayed Krakens as well.
Chris said everything. GK is really fragile, has no regen and once he gets hit, he has a much increased chance to root. Ichtyids, OTOH, are really dangerous with their nets that severely lower defense. Also, they have wonderful morale and it is well known that they're dangerous for early SC's. So, I'm not surprised here.

Oh, I'm sticking around. I'm just pretty sure I'm hosed. But I'll die to another player.

[Bwaha]

Hmmm, that's strange. I'm not receiving a e-mail from Llama server that my turn was received.
Llama server shows that the turn was received.

:confused:

Its okay, but kinda disconcerting...

[ano]

It happens. Mail problems

[Bwaha]

Ah, I just found out what was wrong, I was sending the turns to Llama himself. My bad... Bwaha...:D

[sansanjuan]

Oh, I'm sticking around. I'm just pretty sure I'm hosed. But I'll die to another player.

I'd keep playing too. I alway learn even when I'm on the downward slope. Fun to try some crazy angles... and if you do end up winning with a start like that it would be legendary. ;)

-ssj

[Bwaha]

Whew. What a day. I started a tear out at 08:00, finished at 13:00. Fired a subcontractor, and finished a bathroom after that.
I'm beat. ;)

[Squirrelloid]

Oh dear god, someone just put me out of my misery.

There isn't a water province I can see with less than ~70 inhabitants (except for the sea trolls, kraken, and hydromancer one...). While my pretender could have taken the 70 triton province, or the *120* triton province, my regular armies are not up to the task and won't be for a *long* time...

And of course half my freespawn are tritons so I'd even have a hard time gobbling up the easy land provinces I can see (trust me, all the land provinces I can see look easy by comparison).

I don't think i've ever seen a start with so many defenders, much less for such crappy provinces. (Seriously, 120 tritons for a 15 gold province? What the hell is that?) Where's the 20-40 tritons/merfolk/atlantian militia defenses?

Still in, really not doing much.

[ano]

I can tell you that it was quite long ago when I had such an unlucky start. Not only my starting army that won in all tests ran from militia and lost 19 units but I also lost early mercs to Pythium who bid exactly the same amount for them. Add unlucky events on top and all this makes a perfect start. Thanks god, no plague in my capital by now..:)

[Alpine Joe]

Ano im in a game right now where I had two half pop plague events in my cap on turns 2 and 3 with luck 3. Anything better than that now seems like a great start :)

But you are not alone as my luck in this game could also be called relatively bad.

[ano]

I'd probably leave immediately after that
IMO, plaguelike events should be prohibited for the capitals for the first, say, ten turns.

[Squirrelloid]

I'd probably leave immediately after that
IMO, plaguelike events should be prohibited for the capitals for the first, say, ten turns.

All events should be prohibited from the capitol for like the first year. The good events for balance reasons (no risk, no reward). The bad events because too many of them are just reamful. Even getting a brigands event turn 2 horribly destroys your opening.

.................

I might have a chance this game if we were on easy research. But even getting a research engine to the point it'll do anything is going to take forever...

[ano]

If all events are prohibited in the first year it will make misfortune even more attractive and luck will be nearly never taken.
But plaguelike events are just too crippling.

[Squirrelloid]

If all events are prohibited in the first year it will make misfortune even more attractive and luck will be nearly never taken.
But plaguelike events are just too crippling.

Just prohibited in the capitol for the first year. No restrictions elsewhere.

Also, I know conventional wisdom is that misfortune is free points, but the increased frequency of lost provinces to indie attacks is really annoying, and tends to disrupt military operations. I'm starting to think of misfortune as a worse disadvantage than death scales - at least I can predict lost revenue from death scales, and am not going to lose soldier hours taking provinces back or gem income while provinces are occupied.

(And it takes an amazing amount of PD for most nations to repel knight attacks, and even large barbarian attacks, and that's money that's not being spent productively).

[Hoplosternum]

Oh dear god, someone just put me out of my misery.

There isn't a water province I can see with less than ~70 inhabitants (except for the sea trolls, kraken, and hydromancer one...). While my pretender could have taken the 70 triton province, or the *120* triton province, my regular armies are not up to the task and won't be for a *long* time...

And of course half my freespawn are tritons so I'd even have a hard time gobbling up the easy land provinces I can see (trust me, all the land provinces I can see look easy by comparison).

I don't think i've ever seen a start with so many defenders, much less for such crappy provinces. (Seriously, 120 tritons for a 15 gold province? What the hell is that?) Where's the 20-40 tritons/merfolk/atlantian militia defenses?

Still in, really not doing much.

My starts the same. We are on indies 6 I believe but the number of defenders is huge in the water. So expansion is really tough. If it makes you feel any better I suspect our province counts are pretty close and I am guessing your army is already bigger with your free spawn.

I am still suprised your tests showed a Ghost King could take on many indies on these settings. I mean he has no spells for buffs (apart from Twist Fate maybe) and no equipment. His standard weapon is 'no strength' so isn't going to kill anything with protection. I have used a Ghost king plenty of times. It was pretty much the only choice for pre patch Jomon if you ever wanted to use your summons. I always found them pretty fragile as they can't deal out any damage apart from a bit of chill (which takes time).

[Squirrelloid]

Oh dear god, someone just put me out of my misery.

There isn't a water province I can see with less than ~70 inhabitants (except for the sea trolls, kraken, and hydromancer one...). While my pretender could have taken the 70 triton province, or the *120* triton province, my regular armies are not up to the task and won't be for a *long* time...

And of course half my freespawn are tritons so I'd even have a hard time gobbling up the easy land provinces I can see (trust me, all the land provinces I can see look easy by comparison).

I don't think i've ever seen a start with so many defenders, much less for such crappy provinces. (Seriously, 120 tritons for a 15 gold province? What the hell is that?) Where's the 20-40 tritons/merfolk/atlantian militia defenses?

Still in, really not doing much.

My starts the same. We are on indies 6 I believe but the number of defenders is huge in the water. So expansion is really tough. If it makes you feel any better I suspect our province counts are pretty close and I am guessing your army is already bigger with your free spawn.

I am still suprised your tests showed a Ghost King could take on many indies on these settings. I mean he has no spells for buffs (apart from Twist Fate maybe) and no equipment. His standard weapon is 'no strength' so isn't going to kill anything with protection. I have used a Ghost king plenty of times. It was pretty much the only choice for pre patch Jomon if you ever wanted to use your summons. I always found them pretty fragile as they can't deal out any damage apart from a bit of chill (which takes time).

I've found them more fragile on land because they don't like archers. In the water they're virtually impervious (bar hydromancer). You don't win combat by killing things, you win combat by making them run away, and you can damage just about anything. For example, a GK can handle arbitrary numbers of tritons or merfolk. (Once you're surrounded it really doesn't matter how many there are total - they'll break as squads...).

[Squirrelloid]

Sigh, no edits:

Also, i'm reasonably sure while my standard attack is no strength it also ignores armor. Protection is irrelevant.

[chrispedersen]

Not irrelevent...

No strength means buffs like giant strength dont work. Things like trolls high hp/ + regen are slow to kill.

[Squirrelloid]

Kills are irrelevant. Making them run away is. I've got a GK in one game who has personally conquered 9 provinces with a grand total of 14 kills. If they run away the all die. You only need to deal damage to cause a morale check, after all.

And how long do you think a GK is intended to solo indies for? Giant Strength? Seriously? By the end of year one he's a forger/researcher/battle caster/site searcher. He's not intended to melee other players' armies.

[Hoplosternum]

Well it isn't looking good for either of the water powers. I never received a turn 5 so have just staled out....

[ano]

I also didn't receive my turn in another game today. It happens. You should always check the game state at llamaserver page.

[Hoplosternum]

I did but of course there are two R'Leyh's in this game :p

[ano]

It's easy to distinguish. Late era nations are above at the status page and middle era is below.

Late:
Agartha Waiting for 2h file
Gath 2h file received
Mictlan Waiting for 2h file
Midgard 2h file received
Patala Waiting for 2h file
R'lyeh Waiting for 2h file
T'ien Ch'i Waiting for 2h file

Middle:
Abysia 2h file received
Agartha Waiting for 2h file
Bandar Log 2h file received
Ermor Waiting for 2h file
Mictlan Waiting for 2h file
Pythium Waiting for 2h file
R'lyeh 2h file received
Ulm Waiting for 2h file

Your nation is second from bottom.

[Bwaha]

Well it looks like I found my first neighbor.

I wonder if it will be peace or war?

:D

[chrispedersen]

By the way Squirrel - I'm in the same boat as you. 120 in every adjacent province. Lost twice.

[Squirrelloid]

I'm basically in 'sit back and wait for research/gems to do anything' mode at this point. Unlike anyone else, however, I'm on a timer to expand or die. Getting screwed by the variance in indie strength on indie str 6 is brutal for Rlyeh, especially LA Rlyeh, because our basic troops suck so much in general, and i'm hemorrhaging income like crazy (Yay toxic dominion?). Maybe i'll manage to call my god sooner rather than later...

LA Rlyeh depends on being able to expand *some*.

[chrispedersen]

Truth that.
In my opinion, it makes the first turn gamble a bad one. On the upside, you gain one territory.

The downside is you lose the game. And sure, the upside happens 7 out of 10. The downside is a real bummer however.

Like you, I don't like capital events for the first 6 months or so. The real bummer of the misfortune scale is that an early event like barbarian attacks or plague - isn't so much that it knocks a player out of the game.

It *also* distorts the game for the rest of the players. Ie., someone gets free expansion.

Attacking blind is a little bit like that luck event. If you wait one turn you can vastly increase your odds. You can choose the weakest province to attack, you can add bodyguards - or, if they are all too strong, you can sit and research something that will give you better odds.... If you don't wait, its trusting in luck.

[Bwaha]

Well if it makes you feel better, I lost 20% of my capitols pop on the second turn. :eek:

But the Indies have been being subjugated for little loss.

I'm about to go to war in the next few turns.

It's just a matter of who???

[chrispedersen]

Anyone interested in trading gems? I'm looking for air gems. Willing to trade or buy.

[Dragar]

I can trade away any gems as long as they're fire

[Bwaha]

Hi Chris, I'll trade 10 air gems for 100 gold.

Let me know when you want them.

:D

[chrispedersen]

Hey ano,

For future events with this map, I really suggest getting rid of multisites.

2 players started within 2 provinces of a multisite.

3 others are 3-4.

For the rest of us, they are unreachable. Pretty significant advantage.

[Executor]

Stale... :(

[Bwaha]

Zotz the Prophet of Sleepy declares that the heretics of Ulm shall be given dirt naps.

Those who wish to contribute to the eradication of these anti-magical heretics shall be re-payed with interest... :D

[Revolution]

LA Agartha would like to hear from anyone who has hit or is nearing con 4 and would be willing to forge me some gear. I am trying to survive a attack from Ano who has an irritating habit of winning the games he plays in and is playing as a powerful nation in Gath. Help would be appreciated. I'm gonna fight to the end so those who neighbor Gath and have NAP's with Gath can consider this an opportunity to cancel your NAP's and strike while his forces are occupied with me.

[ano]

Isn't too early to make such statements while out forces never even met? I am very afraid of you, really.

[Revolution]

Gah...for the first time ever misfortune 2 has not been worth it. Lab burns down in home province, build it back up. Then a group of independant knights come and slaughter the 25 PD in my home province without a loss...that gets dealt with after having to wait a turn. Then gath attacks - not misfortune 2 but still rather unfortunate. And then the icing on the cake...

Bogus the annoyingly heroic troll: "Yo, I heard you're keeping some blood slaves in here, that ain't right."

Revolution: "Errr...nope, I don't blood hunt actually. Your princess is likely in another castle."

Bogus and his group of jackasses: "We're gonna attack your home castle anyway."

Revolution: O_o (kicks cat across room)



















(I didn't actually kick my cat)

[Dragar]

I'll see your misfortune 2 and give you my misfortune 2 with a plague on the growth 3 capital...

[chrispedersen]

I'll see your misfortune 2 and give you my LUCK 2
with a fire, an earthquake, and a plague. All on capital.

and two more plagues, not on capital.

And a total of 200 gp in positive luck so far.

[BandarLover]

I'll be out of town until Wednesday. If the last turn gets done soon, I can get mine done otherwise it will be wednesday before I can.

[Executor]

Hm, this is the third time in a row I had to use resend turn, hope Llama fixes what ever needs fixing before I miss a turn.

[ano]

BandarLover
If I see your turn isn't in, I'll postpone hosting.
Executor
Same for me. Not in a row but third time

[Squirrelloid]

I'm going to be away from tomorrow (i suppose its barely today) evening through next week monday. I would of course love a delay of game until then, but i can try to find a sub in the meantime. (a couple turns ago i would have been ok with just staling a few turns, but now I actually have productive things to do routinely).

If I find a way to play during some of that time i'll let you know, but i certainly won't be able to play this coming weekend.

I will be gone for more time in August, but I have a sub already lined up for that (he won't be able to sub this week for reasons relating to why i'll be gone).

[ano]

Please, try to find a sub (this actually was to be done earlier).
If you don't manage to, then ok, I will pause the game but indeed it's a too big pause for this stage of the game.

[Squirrelloid]

ok, i have a sub up through thursday. Do I PM you his e-mail address so you can change where the turn is sent?

He also won't be available friday - sunday, and possibly monday. But that's less of a delay than it would have been otherwise.

I'll be driving like all day monday, so if the turn was due like midnight i'd appreciate it. (US central timezone, not sure what that is in GMT offhand, or even which day, probably into tuesday)

[ano]

I'll pause the game whenever I see your turn is not in.
Yes, your sub should PM me his address so that I could change it.

[Hoplosternum]

Yikes! Someone has changed my email address for this game! Please can you check that it's still going to hoplosternum (at) hotmail.com?

Have you switched the wrong R'Lyeh?

[ano]

Damn! That was you!
Please PM me your address and I will change it back.

I am sorry but there's absolutely no obvious way to understand who is who on that page.

[Hoplosternum]

You have a pm....

[ano]

Changed it back. Report me if everything is ok now
As a side note for future: LA R'lyeh email is first of two at the "change email" page

[Hoplosternum]

Seems fine now. Cheers. I have successfully resent my turn.

Just hope there wasn't a catastrophic intelligence blunder where my whole map, forces, income and research priorities were revealed to my younger (and quite crazy) fellow water dweller :shock:

[ano]

No. That was just a mistake. Don't think of such things please. After I realized that there was a mistake, I immediately switched email to fake one.
Look here (http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=_Nox_&action=showadminlog)
And here (http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=_Nox_&action=changeemail). If someone tells me how nations with same names can be distinguished at this page, I'll greatly appreciate this.

[Bwaha]

Hey let's have some people tell some tales.

This month We slew the false prophet of Ulm and started the seige of his capitol. Soon this false pretender will fade from this realm... All Hail Sleepy... :angel

[chrispedersen]

Ive reported it to llama.. its on his todo list =)

[Hoplosternum]

No worries Ano. I know these things can happen :)

I hate to ask anything more of Llama as he has already done so much for the community. But there are now a lot of these multi age games now so it would be really great if the Llama server at some point could show the difference more clearly.

[ano]

If nations were sorted there in same way they are sorted at regular game page (LA nations first and then MA nations) there would be no problem. But the sorting order is different and I didn't see any obvious logic there. Actually I realized I could have done something wrong immediately after I've done it:)

[ano]

Oh!
It seems I understood it. Sorting order is the same but you should read it as you read the book - line by line. I thought that they should be read column by column and that's what confused me:)
Still need to have something more obvious at llamaserver but in this game, I hope, it won't happen again)))

[Bwaha]

It seems to me the best solution would be to put the name of the player after the listing of the race. This would stop the confusion.

[ano]

At llamaserver? Yes, probably that would be a nice feature but it requires a piece of work

[Calahan]

It seems to me the best solution would be to put the name of the player after the listing of the race. This would stop the confusion.
Well if llamabeast does add this feature to his server, I certainly hope it will be a selectable option and not come as standard. Since knowing which player is playing which nation would destroy all RAND games on the spot :(

[chrispedersen]

Best to just add "MA,LA, or EA"

[ano]

No, chris, it would be a nice option.
I caught myself much more than once trying to understand who is who in some random game at llamaserver. Of course, I always can search the forum, find the thread, then look if there're any subs.. But I'd say it's hardly convenient.
But yes, this should definitely be an option.

[chrispedersen]

I'm really not sure what you're saying. In the current game for example, if it weren't for squirrels comment, I'd have no idea which of the two Rlyeh's staled.

I'm not interested in names, especially as they change when a player subs..


[Cool idea: Link to current players shrapnel email from the game page. Since llamaserver updates the player info anyway it would be *very* cool if clicking on the players name allowed you to send a message to that player! Think I'll suggest it to llama.]

[sansanjuan]

Victory condition - conquer 6 capitals and hold them for 3 turns.

Certainly very premature but who typically measures the victory conditions? Does one declare "I have now held the Caps of a,b,c,d,e,f for six turns."? Maybe it is easier than I'm thinking but if the Caps are in "flux" it could get complicated. I'm guessing they need to be held simultaneously for (the same) three turns (losing one of the six for even one turn resets the clock).

;) Sorry... that's how I get working with attorneys.


-ssj

[ano]

I think that winner should have his last turns available for check. And yes, losing any of the capitals should reset the timer even if another one was captured the same turn

[chrispedersen]

What? No!

Not that I can see this happening, but the VC's just say 6 capitals for 3 turns. Nothing about them being the same capitals. And yeah, usually the player just makes the turns available. Now the question I have is does the turn of taking count as a turn of holding?

[ano]

Does it really matter if the capitals are the same?

As for the second question, I think that if player captures his capitals on turn 50 then on turn 53 he is declared a winner. Opposing nations have exactly 3 turns to counteract. Quite simple.

[Hoplosternum]

So you have to announce when you have 6? Or can you simply declare yourself the winner after 3 turns....

[ano]

I think that if someone is going to have 6 capitals we'll know this. Diplomacy is available and scouting is as well. Scout well and you'll know everything. So no need in any announcing.

Btw, I paused the game by 24h because ianuki needs to get into the game and also I wouldn't mind a small pause and Ermor also didn't send his turn in (though he didn't ask for anything).

[rdonj]

It seems to me the best solution would be to put the name of the player after the listing of the race. This would stop the confusion.
Well if llamabeast does add this feature to his server, I certainly hope it will be a selectable option and not come as standard. Since knowing which player is playing which nation would destroy all RAND games on the spot :(

I gave llamabeast some suggestions regarding making some sort of selectable option for RAND games that would hide certain things from the players that are normally visible. Perhaps a thread should be opened for people to make suggestions about what sorts of thinsg should be avaiable/hidden in a rand game.

[ano]

Hosting postponed due to request by Natpy (Pythium). Also, LA R'lyeh subbing player, ianuki, won't able to send his turn in until Sunday evening anyway

[ano]

I postponed this turn by 24h (no LA R'lyeh turn until Monday) and I suggest that we permanently switch to 48h. It seems this is right time for this.

[Hoplosternum]

If anyone has any Death gems and is interested in Astral gems in return please let me know.

[DomDomDom]

Ermor needs nature gems. Payment in death, astral or gold.

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, I'm back (briefly) - seems i got confused on just how close the trips were to each other. (Originally the last one was a month earlier, so it always felt like I had a lot of time between them, but it got pushed back and my brain didn't register exactly what that meant).

And I'll probably need to find a sub soon (Iainuki has expressed an interest in not inheriting all my games, getting right on this).

But for the meantime you can restore Nox to my e-mail (ano, if you don't have it I can PM it to you).

If we're moving to or on a sane hosting schedule of like 48h I'm going to miss like 5-6 turns. Not that bad in the grand scheme of things.

[ano]

Can you try looking for another sub? Stales are no good, especially 5-6 stales.
No, I don't have your email. Please, PM

[Squirrelloid]

Can you try looking for another sub? Stales are no good, especially 5-6 stales.
No, I don't have your email. Please, PM

You may have noticed the thread.

PMing.

[ano]

I changed email and requested turn resend for you.

[Squirrelloid]

Thanks.

Current turn is submitted and fine I'm sure, so don't delay the host time for me.

Oh, and I have a sub.

[ano]

Fine:)

[Bwaha]

I have air gems for sale. 12.5 gold each...

[BandarLover]

Bandar Log has reached lvl 4 construction! Earth, Nature, Astral and Water boosters and items are for sale!! PM for prices!! Will accept gems or gold!! No credit please!

[ano]

I'm in need of something like 20h pause and I granted it to myself. Also, I decided to stop playing here in the nearest turns and so I'm looking for a good sub now. Sorry for that - real life presses hard.
I'll keep being an admin unless someone wants to take this role.

[Executor]

Why does my turn say I won the game???
What the hell just happened?

[ano]

Bwaha! The funny thins has happened and I probably have to say "sorry" for that. I tried to figure out what happened and I think that it's quite simple.
When creating the game here (http://www.llamaserver.net/createGame.cgi) I selected "VPs in capitals: yes" and "VPs required to win: No VP victory" but I just didn't remember that it is impossible to create game with such settings via game interface and llamaserver says nothing about that.

[ano]

So obviously "victory by VP" was turned on silently and nobody knew...
I don't know if anything can be done now. Probably not. One thing that should definitely be done is reporting this to llamabeast to avoid such situations in future.
And sorry once again for not being a genius...

[Alpine Joe]

Congrats on a nice clean win executor :)

I suppose one of us could probably restart the game with most of the same players in a Nox II

[Executor]

Rejoice for a true God has ascended!!! Worship me mortals!!!!! Muhahahaahaha

This is definitely the fastest military victory in dominions.
So... should I sign in my win!?:D

But really, damn you Ano. I had such a great start here, killed Abysia and was just about to move on Ermor. I had everything planned to perfection!

[ano]

I suppose one of us could probably restart the game with most of the same players in a Nox II
I'm too tired of dominions now so I won't do that. Maybe a month or too later. If you want it you may of course make a restart though

But really, damn you Ano. I had such a great start here, killed Abysia and was just about to move on Ermor. I had everything planned to perfection!
Yes, you were a perfect position, I knew, and was greatly worried about that. You shouldn't have had an easy win but at the moment you were probably the most likely victor. Sorry for that, guys, but I really couldn't know that. It seems that this game was the first one to run into this but probably not the last unless something is done with game creation page.

[Bwaha]

Humbug. Let's start a new game.

Let's a different map though.

I've been messing with the Middle Earth BB map, and It looks good so far.

What do you guys think?

[sansanjuan]

Rejoice for a true God has ascended!!! Worship me mortals!!!!! Muhahahaahaha

This is definitely the fastest military victory in dominions.
So... should I sign in my win!?:D

But really, damn you Ano. I had such a great start here, killed Abysia and was just about to move on Ermor. I had everything planned to perfection!

NOOoooooo! Tien Chi had 40 (!) provinces and a huge gem stash :doh: (even found an air 4 site)... I was ready to turn the switch in a couple more turns... So sad.

Ex: In any event.. Congrats!

-ssj

[Alpine Joe]

Yeah I'd be up for replacing this map with another one as well. Asia twist simply has too many provinces per player. Its pretty, but i feel like you should only be able to get about 15 provinces through normal expansion on the biggest maps.....

[chrispedersen]

Rejoice for a true God has ascended!!! Worship me mortals!!!!! Muhahahaahaha

This is definitely the fastest military victory in dominions.
So... should I sign in my win!?:D

!

Sign in a win.. hell no... you had like 30 territories. TC had 40. I had 48. Three forts built and 8 under construction....

That *really* sucked! I'd vote undoing the turn, fixing it and continuining.

[chrispedersen]

Hey on other matters, we're looking for 2 in Tourney a Champions -where everyone plays one game as one of six nations (each player chooses one, all players play the same - check it out).

Is anyone interested in starting a new game? If theres interest, I'd like to start a game using the balance mod I've written.

Essentially pulls out gem generators, compensates certain nations, and has minor fixes for nations perceived as weak: Yomi, Abysia, Agartha, Oceania.

[Hoplosternum]

Congratulations Executor ;)

Shame though - I fancied my chances against LA R'lyeh, even if not for the game, despite my bad start and two stales.

[ano]

That *really* sucked! I'd vote undoing the turn, fixing it and continuining.
I don't think anything can be done here as we can't alter the game settings

[Strabo]

Is anyone interested in starting a new game? If theres interest, I'd like to start a game using the balance mod I've written.

Essentially pulls out gem generators, compensates certain nations, and has minor fixes for nations perceived as weak: Yomi, Abysia, Agartha, Oceania.

I haven't played Nox, but this sounds interesting...

[Alpine Joe]

Hey on other matters, we're looking for 2 in Tourney a Champions -where everyone plays one game as one of six nations (each player chooses one, all players play the same - check it out).

Is anyone interested in starting a new game? If theres interest, I'd like to start a game using the balance mod I've written.

Essentially pulls out gem generators, compensates certain nations, and has minor fixes for nations perceived as weak: Yomi, Abysia, Agartha, Oceania.


I'd join this game.

[chrispedersen]

Okay, I'll make a thread: Balance - signup.
I'm short on time today, so it will be rudimentary.