Silly Noob Question regarding Lightless Lanterns

[Hector, tamer of horses]

Hi Guys

I have read many of the excellent strategy guides on this site. There are so many and they are so good, where do you guys find the time to write them?

Anyway, when boosting research capability, the use of "Lightless Lanterns" always comes up. Why, my noobishness asks, would you choose Lanterns over "Skull Mentor" (which provides 9 extra research in place of 6 for Lanterns). I have had no real difficulty collecting Death magic (admittedly I have only played T'ien Chen, Agartha, and Abysia) and these Mentors translate into a massive increase in research capability. Why would I take a %50 cut to have Lanterns?

Also, it appears that you cannot use two Mentors on the same guy (for an RP bump of 18). Why is that? Also, can you add a Lantern to a researcher that already has Mentor for a cumulative bump of 15? I guess as a side question, can you used two Lanterns on a researcher for 12 added RP?

And a last question, I have only played SP. I really enjoy T'ien Ch'i. So very flexible. But from what I have read, they get massacred in MP because the bless nations take them down fast before they can get rolling. Is this so? Is there a way around this or are they just dead out of the box? Don't really have the time for MP so I can't really find out for myself.

Thanks, in advance.

[Calahan]

Part of the attraction of Lanterns over Skull Mentors is that they are more cost efficient, since with a hammer you get 6rp for 3 gems with a Lantern, and 9rp for 7 gems with a skull mentor. But by far the main attraction of Lanterns over Skulls is that there are just so many good uses for Death gems at any stage of the game. Basically you have never have enough Death gems no matter which nation you play. But there are not many good uses for Fire gems, and many consider Fire gems to be by far the least useful type of gem, so forging Lanterns is considered one of the best uses for Fire gems. The other main ones being achemising them into Astral gems, or forging fire trinkets.

[Fate]

In answer to your other question, no two identical items can give the same buff from sitting in the first two miscellaneous slots of a unit.

That means 2 lightless lanterns = 6 RP, 2 burning Pearls = 5attack (I think?), 2 bracers of protection = +2 def and protection.

HOWEVER, if your unit has 3 slots (or more) and you put the same item in the first and third slots they will stack (I am not sure if this is considered a bug/exploit or is WAD).

[Hector, tamer of horses]

Thanks guys, especially for that three slot bit, very interesting.

I always find that I have lots of use for fire gems. Combat (flaming arrows etc.). I guess you can just do more with death.

What of the T'ien Ch'i question?

[Trumanator]

Does that include gem generators? So I can't give a scout 2 clams and expect it to work?

[llamabeast]

T'ien Ch'i aren't considered weak so far as I know.

[Calahan]

I think the doubling up on items for commanders with 3+ Misc/Hand slots got fixed at some point (if it ever existed)

Just ran a quick test with a Crone (4 Misc) and Deva (4 hands) and no combination of any of the two like items I tested had a stacking effect. I tested boosters, hammers, clams, and made sure the items had a slot between them. All only showed single effects from the pair of equipped items.

[Illuminated One]

LA Tien Chi is quite strong imo.
With an Earth-9 bless those ancestor vessels are very nice, 6 should take care of normal indies. Your magic is not as versatile as MA but it's still on the better side - as are your troops.

If you want a powerhouse nation similar to Tien Chi you should try Sauromatia.

[ano]

2 bottles of living water perfectly summon two elementals at start of battle. A bit strange because other identical items don't work together indeed.

[Fate]

I ran a quick test, and two gem generators do not stack.

Interesting that they fixed the three-slot bug.

For Tien'Chi:

You should check the sticky on strategy, there are a couple useful threads on MA Tien'chi (the wiki entry is very in depth). Baalz also wrote a guide to Tian'Chi Here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43355).

Most (all) nations that aren't Bless nations are vulnerable to a bless rush, especially on smaller maps. Most nations can counteract this by taking advantage of some of the early spells (especially Evocation) or keeping an awake pretender. Tien'Chi has no need of an awake pretender except (possibly) for this purpose, so it is a bit of a waster. Also, Tien'Chi's best mages have very unpredictable paths and low health, making them sub-optimal combat mages.

Every nation can be viable with some good planning and enough luck (varies depending on the nation in question). Don't let balance stop you, :)

[lch]

That means 2 lightless lanterns = 6 RP, 2 burning Pearls = 5attack (I think?), 2 bracers of protection = +2 def and protection.

Slightly flawed example, Bracers of Protection do stack.

[Fate]

lch, is that for protection and defence or just the protection part?

Man, I used to think I understood which items stacked...

[Meglobob]

On T'ien Ch'i I have played both LA and EA in MP and did very well in both.

It took 3 combined nations La C'tis/Ulm/Pan to stop La T'ien Ch'i with a W9 bless on there Ancestor Vessels, who formed the invincible army up until the midgame that is, took out over a dozen enemy armies many 2-3 times there size. Ancestor Vessels really kick ***.

Ea T'ien Ch'i was 2nd only in power to Niefelheim up until the game got abandoned turn 50 or so (host got new job), was very disappointing, as I fancied my nation to win or go close. There sacreds are good, with 50%? elemental resistance to every? element.

Its a middle ---> decent strength nation overall. Huge magical diversity gives it an edge.

[Edi]

The 3+ slot bug was fixed due to its abusability. The reason why two bottles of living water and two bracers of protection stack is that they are tied into different mechanics than most items.

The bracers give armor protection, which has no limitations, and when blessed with E9, the blessing is applied to all armor (and since it's misc prot, it doubles).

The bottles of living water on the other hand each cast a onebattlespell, in this case summoning a water elemental and that only comes into play in combat. If you equipped a unit with two scutata volturnus shields, they would probably both cast shocking grasp, or if you put two spirit helmets on an ettin, you'd get two lightning bolt casters. Though those have not been tested.

[Gregstrom]

That's interesting - thanks. Adon + 3 bracers FTW, then.

[Calahan]

That's interesting - thanks. Adon + 3 bracers FTW, then.

Yes, that's a potential exploit for Ashdod. But surely Ashdod need all the tricks they can get since they are so under-powered :)