Aardwark - Finished, Raiel wins!

[Fantomen]

I´m back from Kenya and ready to once more enter the fray!

I have four requirements for signups:
1. Read and sign Baalz good player pledge (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43620)
2. That you are willing to play and post in character.
3. The diplomacy is not bound to any ethical rules, you may under no circumstance start metagame whining about broken deals, channel that anger into some roleplayed vendettas instead.
4. No delays longer than 5 hours for the first 20 turns(24hQH), the game will start the 12th of august.

Era: Middle
Map: Urraparand (might need to check if start locations are ok)
Amount of players: 11
settings: normal (renaming on, money 125%)
Mods: CBM 1.5
Played on: Llamaserver PBEM

All nations are kosher.

Signed up:

Machaka - Fantomen
Ashdod - Black Sun Empire
Agartha - Ghoul31
Pangea - Jarrko
Vanheim - Aethyr
C'tis - Stattis
Pythium - Starshine Monarch
T'ien Ch'i - Baalz
Shinuyama - Ferrosol
R'lyeh - Raiel
Atlantis - DomDomDom

[Fantomen]

Inspired by my recent journey I want to play the only african themed nation, Machaka.

Behold N´gai. Father of all, the one who sent the cattle and rain to his blessed children. He has arisen to anger and awareness. The cattle has been scattered, the rain falls on the crops of heathens. And the heathens shall fear him, for he comes in two shapes: N´gai Narok the benevolent, and N´gai Nanyokie the vengeful!

All cattle must be herded by his children, the Machakans. The world must bow to his supremacy!

[P3D]

I am in enough Dom3 game right now, but I have some suggestions if you want to use the Urraparand map. I played on it a lot SP, and the game is prone to put 3-4 nations pretty close to each other.
a/ designate starting positions manually depending on the # of players.
b/ There's a mod that adds some connections through the straits, as the map is full of chokepoints otherwise.
c/ you might want to turn a few wasteland/mtn into grassland/bordermtn provinces close to some disadvantaged starting locations

[Black Sun Empire]

I would be willing to play.

I'm a new player, but very keen to play. I've already signed the pledge and prefer games with people willing to fight to the end.

Ashdod - BSE

[ghoul31]

I'll take Agartha

[Jarkko]

I'd like to join with Pangaea.

[Aethyr]

Van please.

[Fantomen]

I am in enough Dom3 game right now, but I have some suggestions if you want to use the Urraparand map. I played on it a lot SP, and the game is prone to put 3-4 nations pretty close to each other.
a/ designate starting positions manually depending on the # of players.
b/ There's a mod that adds some connections through the straits, as the map is full of chokepoints otherwise.
c/ you might want to turn a few wasteland/mtn into grassland/bordermtn provinces close to some disadvantaged starting locations

Good suggestion, I´d need someone to help me out though. If no one with those skills sign up we might just chose another map.

So 5 out of ten, I bid you welcome. Feel free to introduce your pretenders and discuss any wishes you might have regarding the setup.

[statttis]

I'll join as C'tis.

Setting up what you need for the map isn't hard. I'm no map expert but I've done it before and will gladly help out if you want it.

[Starshine_Monarch]

I'll play as Pythium. I'll be gone most of this week and so might only get my pretender in at the last minute.

[Fantomen]

I'll join as C'tis.

Setting up what you need for the map isn't hard. I'm no map expert but I've done it before and will gladly help out if you want it.

Good. We just need to make sure the starting positions are fairly balanced.

[Baalz]

I'm in as TC.

[Ferrosol]

In as Shinuyama

[Fantomen]

Just one slot left then.

I´ve decided to increase the player count by one and reserve the last two slots for water nations in order avoid a single dominant water power, everyone ok with that?

[Raiel]

Just one slot left then.

I´ve decided to increase the player count by one and reserve the last two slots for water nations in order avoid a single dominant water power, everyone ok with that?


Then I'd like to play as R'lyeh.

[Fantomen]

Aww come on, no one wants the other water nation?

[DomDomDom]

Ready to join as MA Atlantis.

[Fantomen]

Exellent.

I made some test games and decided the map is ok as it is. In the description it recommends money 150% but I didn´t want it so high so I compromised at 125% so it still offsets the barren map a bit. If a majority wants it at 100% I´ll change it.

So the game is created now, go ahead and upload your pretenders.

The game will be started early morning wednesday the 12th so send your pretender in before tuesday night.

[ghoul31]

I won't be playing because I can't figure out how to upload a pretender.

[Aethyr]

@ghoul31 (from Llamaserver FAQ):

- Make sure you have the same mods enabled as the game you're playing in (Preferences->Mod Preferences) although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions. Don't set a password, since for PBEM games they're not helpful and occasionally annoying (e.g. if you need a sub)
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name in the subject line of your e-mail

A few minutes later you should get a confirmation e-mail, and if you check the website you should find your nation added to the list of nations which have joined the game.

Hope this helps

[Fantomen]

I won't be playing because I can't figure out how to upload a pretender.

Well you still have six days to figure out...:)

To clarify the post above, your email should look something like this:

Send to: pretenders(a)llamaserver(dot)net
Subject: Aardwark
Attachments: mid_agartha.2h

[ghoul31]

Ok, I found out what the problem was. Vista stores the info in a strange place.

\Users\[your login]<YOUR name user>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Dominions\".

[Starshine_Monarch]

Just decided I'd let people know that I've returned from my vacation and will have a pretender up sometime tomorrow.

[Raiel]

I finally had a chance to create a build for R'lyeh; uploading my pretender has automatically started the game. That's not a problem for me, but if anyone else was expecting the game to start on the 12th no matter when pretenders were uploaded (as I inferred from the OP's comments), a delay may be in order. Just a thought.

[Fantomen]

That shouldn´t be a problem. I postponed hosting by 10 hours (until the 13th 12:45) so everyone should be a able to get the first turn in before that I suppose.

And so it began...

I hereby officially welcome you to Aardwark, the arena of yet another epic struggle of divine domination.
May your hearts be the hearts of warriors, knowing not victory or defeat but only the joy of battle, the sweetness of death.

This will be the first game I organise, I do hope you will enjoy it. If you have any wishes or concerns feel free to PM.

[Fantomen]

@ghoul31: You have chosen not to receive PM:s. This is your choice of course but I strongly recommend you to enable them. Diplomacy is very important in this game and in-game messaging is quite ineffective, so without PM:s you´ll be left behind (and missing the fun) in all the secret conspiracies.

Also It is good for the admin to be able to send you PM:s about stuff.

[Jarkko]

"Let me get this straight. We have two powerful nations to the east of us, and to the west we have several dozens of independent knights guarding the provinces there?"

"That is right, sir. Although the other province guarded by knights has only four knights left, the prophet and his army was able to kill most of them before the knights pierced him."

"Hmm... Send word to Bukefalos. He won't be happy, but he must be informed. At least the main-army is mostly intact still."

[Starshine_Monarch]

Alas, so soon after I started this game, I must leave again. Chrispederson will be subbing in for Pythium starting Sunday, but I'll be back for good on Friday for sure. Thanks Chris, I owe ya one.

[Fantomen]

Email changed.

@Chrispedersen: Your PM inbox is full so I couldn´t reply.

[Black Sun Empire]

"Let me get this straight. We have two powerful nations to the east of us, and to the west we have several dozens of independent knights guarding the provinces there?"

"That is right, sir. Although the other province guarded by knights has only four knights left, the prophet and his army was able to kill most of them before the knights pierced him."

"Hmm... Send word to Bukefalos. He won't be happy, but he must be informed. At least the main-army is mostly intact still."

"Sir we've noticed a mad Bull named Bukefalos to the NW and we're also surrounded by Knights."

"Hold position and draw them into your heartlands."

"Sir, Bukefalos is raiding our lands"

"Just wait, we will have the last laugh"

[Jarkko]

"So, let me get the facts right one more time."

"We lost out prophet to knights."

"Check."

"We lost our god to the giants of Ashdod."

"Check."

"Our army is ordered to counter-attack the giants."

"Check."

"Ok, sounds like a plan. Proceed."

"Roger that, sir!"

[DomDomDom]

I have to leave for 6-8 days. Fortunately Ano agreed to sub Atlantis from Thursday. I've sent his e-mail to Fantomen's PM box.

[DomDomDom]

Ups, not from Thursday but from Tuesday :)

[Baalz]

Alright, I've got Shinuyama in the water next to me, R'lyeh encroaching on my land on one side and Atlantis on the land to my other. You guys are confused!

[statttis]

Image my surprise when I find my underwater expansion blocked by Shinuyama's army of shamblers :cold:

[Aethyr]

A most "neighborly" map this is. :rolleyes:

[Raiel]

Alright, I've got Shinuyama in the water next to me, R'lyeh encroaching on my land on one side and Atlantis on the land to my other. You guys are confused!

Ha... you think we're confused? Well, yes, we are. I just found C'tis' pretender - in the water.

"Neighborly" might be a good way to describe a map where my capitol and that of my nearest competitor are seperated by only one province, but I used a few different words when I first realized it.

[Black Sun Empire]

Just a quick note, this map is very small, hard for a newbie like myself to get started.

Anyway, I need a 36-48 hour extension, sorry people.

[Fantomen]

Did you read the sign up conditions? It says no extentions longer than 5h for the first 20 turns. I´m sorry if you missed that but I won´t make exeptions, perhaps someone can do the turn for you.

[ano]

I'm only a temporary sub in this game but it seems to me that having strict inflexible conditions is always bad for people. Be flexible - it's a key to success in any business:).
Just a side note, nothing more, but I'd never sign into a game with conditions like this. A lot of things may happen in life and who knows where we are the next day. Sacrificing your game due to unexpected circumstances doesn't sound good and good subs are not always easily found.

Once again, just an opinion.

[Baalz]

Well, the other side of that coin is that pacing is an important part of maintaining game enjoyment which is why we have set deadlines in the first place. A stale here or there isn't going to kill anybody and the idea of having no delays for the first X turns is that the early turns can be done in a short period of time so it's not reasonable to hold up the entire game over a turn that can be put in in 5 minutes in a pinch.

[ano]

Hm, maybe that's my personal attitude to staling. I must say I never staled a single time and I'm not going to. But things do happen and not having an escape way may be very painful.
Btw, I'm not agree that stale early on is a lot less important than a later one. Early years determine how your nation will look like after indies are over and 3-4 provinces you lose due to stale always matter.
But, of course, all this is a matter of personal preference. I see absolutely no problem in doing early turns *relatively* fast, I just don't like limits:).

[ano]

Maybe a rule that at least two people should ask for each 10-24 hour delay could be better.

[Fantomen]

I understand your opinion Ano. But since those conditions were clearly stated in the game description, wouldn´t suddenly abandoning the rule be unfair to those who signed up expecting a fast paced start?

[Jarkko]

Well, the rules were posted by Fantomen in the first post of this thread. There are just four rules in this game, so anybody signing up must have read those through. I mean, it's just the first 20 turns, turns seldomly take many minutes to complete.

I for one signed up for this game spesifically because of the four rules mentioned by Fantomen in the OP. If the rules would be now all of the sudden changed, I for one would feel cheated.

[ano]

It's only an opinion and small discussion, nothing more. It is your game and, of course, everyone should have read what was written before signing inn. Also, in this particular case, Black Sun Empire's nation is too small for such a big delay.
OTOH, he said 36-48h delay which may mean two stales. Probably that is a bit much.

[ano]

Jarkko
What I suggest is probably adding 5h two times which will result in 10h total for BSE to have chance of preventing another stale.
Actually, I don't care much what happens because here my role will (hopefully) end when DomDom returns.

[ano]

Also, I'd like to add that it is my first game (or several turns) with CBM. And I must say that even in such early stage it is obvious how expansion is eased in CBM compared to vanilla:)
And Atlantis' troops are verygood for the price in CMB at least in terms of expansion. However, other nations' troops may be even better - I don't know.

[Fantomen]

Dau shook his head in disbelief. Everything had been going so well. The spider riders taking one province after the other, the fevered sweating red power in their beds, the dark secrets about to be unfolded.

The one eyed giants had emerged unexpectedly from the seas, taking the capital in less than a month, annihilating the machakan armies.

Dau sighed and went back to the construction site of his new lab.

So I have been successfully rushed by Ghoul31(congrats, well played!), I will fight to the end but stand no chance. I have no lab, no capital and hardly any troops left. So there will soon be need for a new admin.

[Starshine_Monarch]

If we do end up needing a new admin, I guess it should be someone who isn't adminning another game and, even better, if this is the only game they're playing in. How about we have a show of hands for all that apply? This is currently my only game, but I'd rather not take the job of admin, not while school is so close anyway.

[ano]

3 stales. A bit too much, probably. Fantomen, please, add another 5h to the current turn if Ashdod doesn't submit his turn in time.
It's like a double-edged blade. When turns are long people lose interest, when turns are short, they just stale:)

[Black Sun Empire]

Well sorry about that, I had to go away for work purposes.

I guess I should be more selective when I join a game.

Sorry about missing my turns, I will check to see what happened over the last two turns.

[Black Sun Empire]

Just thought I would say something about the rules. I understand the need to stick to rules and my nation is not the biggest as I'm a newbie and learning how to play.

I still find it slightly harsh to be staled twice.

The first one should have been a big enough slap on the wrist, to then stale me again was a little harsh. To top it off, two other nations have staled, one has staled three times.

Anyway, it was in the rules so I understand the right to stick to the rules. I just think sometimes in life rules should be a little more flexible.

[ano]

Shinuyama is going to stale again, btw. Maybe we should look for a sub? Three stales in a row cry for that, IMO.

[chrispedersen]

If starshine and statttis have no objection - I would be happy to replace Shinu.

Do you wish to delay the turn so I can get up to speed?

[ano]

It would be cool:). If only Fantomen postponed hosting and sent Shinuyama turn to you.

[ano]

Please, postpone the game by as much as possible. Thanks.

[Fantomen]

Jesus, lots of stales! It´s not that I want to be harsh or anything, I just wanted us to have a quick start. Most of those stales just went under the radar for me... I have granted all 5h delay requests that have been pm´d to me so it seems that most of the stales are just people choosing to stale, or having unexpected real life issues.

Ferrisol seems to have abandoned the game entirely without notice, so I´m glad to pass shinuyama on to Chrispedersen if he wants it.

Have patience with me guys, it´s the first game I organize but I´m trying my best.

[Fantomen]

I made a one time delay of 20 hours to set things straight, I have changed Shinuyama to Chrispedersen.

For further delay requests, it is more efficient to send me a pm, I will notice these faster than posts in the thread. I´m a working woman so don´t count on me reading anything before 7pm.

[Fantomen]

Just thought I would say something about the rules. I understand the need to stick to rules and my nation is not the biggest as I'm a newbie and learning how to play.

I still find it slightly harsh to be staled twice.

The first one should have been a big enough slap on the wrist, to then stale me again was a little harsh. To top it off, two other nations have staled, one has staled three times.

Anyway, it was in the rules so I understand the right to stick to the rules. I just think sometimes in life rules should be a little more flexible.

Well, I didn´t "stale" you on purpose you know, the game hosts automatically. I can´t keep track on who´s about to stale before each hosting so if you need a delay you need to ask for it by sending me a pm.

[DomDomDom]

I'm back and ready to lead Atlantian nation again. All diplomacy options are on. Special thanks to Ano for subbing.

[Black Sun Empire]

Well, I didn´t "stale" you on purpose you know, the game hosts automatically. I can´t keep track on who´s about to stale before each hosting so if you need a delay you need to ask for it by sending me a pm.

Well I understand the first stale, I accept that one. I agree I did not send a PM and I did ask for longer than 5hours.

I just thought the second stale was a little harsh, anyway, I am back and running again.

[Jarkko]

Ummm... I got Rams Head the Hero last turn. As I didn't have anything for him to do, I left him just standing there. Now he declared himself profet...

I am wondering if this is a bug (I have two profets now) or does Rams Head automatically declare himself a prophet under some conditions in CBM? At least I've had it happen to me never before.

[chrispedersen]

Wow .. send that in. There has definitely been talk of a prophet bug introduced recently.

They will *really* want to see that.. send in the fatherland, mod and turn file to info@illwinter.com.

[Jarkko]

Wow .. send that in. There has definitely been talk of a prophet bug introduced recently.

They will *really* want to see that.. send in the fatherland, mod and turn file to info@illwinter.com.

Will do.

[Jarkko]

In other news, I think Fantomen is doing a great job as GM. I like the fast pace of this game :)

[Jarkko]

Aaaaand my pretender is dead, again. Damn those Ashdod giants are tough, anything I throw against them get killed :( The only good thing is that the giants are not present everywhere and I seem to be able to steam-roll the non-giant armies, but sucks to lose one army per turn to the berking giants :mad:

[Black Sun Empire]

I guess it is lucky for all involved that I have no idea how to play this game, otherwise I may be dangerous.

[Fantomen]

We have reached turn 20, meaning longer delays are now permitted. Remember to ask well in advance and that it is preferable to find a sub if possible.

I am sorry to inform you that I am being mercilessly crushed without hope of recovery. I kindly ask that someone else step up as new admin as soon as possible.

[chrispedersen]

Speaking of subs Fantomen,

Would you like to sub for Shinuyami starting Tues or wednesday? I was called out of town.. I've been looking for a sub for a week no luck.

I was originally replacing a player who staled 4x... so if you wanted to take over the position that would be ok too.

[Fantomen]

I would gladly do that chrispedersen, but even if I´m going down with machaka I would still be in control of two nations.

I guess if I have lost enough of my provinces by Tuesday I could turn AI without shame and take over Shinuyama instead...would you others consider that an acceptable solution?

[Baalz]

Yes, given the scarcity of subs this is a far better solution than Shin staling or going AI.

[Aethyr]

I'm not sure I agree.

[chrispedersen]

Its almost impossible to find subs these days.......

The alternatives seem to be: postponing; shin staling which is akin to handing the kingdom over to Ctis; or Fantomen taking it over.

I think you can trust Fantomen not to abuse it..

[Aethyr]

Very well, I'll withdraw my objection and defer to the will of the group.

[Jarkko]

I guess if I have lost enough of my provinces by Tuesday I could turn AI without shame and take over Shinuyama instead...would you others consider that an acceptable solution?

I think that would be a good solution :)

[Fantomen]

Very well then. I´ll switch nations on Tuesday. Perhaps Chrispedersen could PM me describing the situation.

[Fantomen]

Ok, so I have taken over Shinuyama, Machaka has gone AI.

[ghoul31]

I'm having computers problems, and won't be able to play anymore.

[Fantomen]

So now we are looking for another sub then...sigh.

I don´t want to turn Agartha AI as well, It would be a shame since it is winning against Machaka and has two capitals. I´m trying to find a sub, I´ll postpone the game a bit in the meanwhile.

[ghoul31]

I decided to get a new computer. Can you delay the game for a couple of days?

[Fantomen]

Reckon I can, that will probably be better than Agartha going AI. Second opinions?

Even better would be if you tried to find a temporary sub though.

[Fantomen]

If there is no angry playermob showing up with pitchforks and sharpened sticks to lynch me, well then I´m going to consider Ghouls computer crash a force majoure and grant him the delay.

You´ve got two days then Ghoul, hope thats enough. I made a request for a temporary sub and if someone steps up I´m going to let him do a couple turns rather that postponing.

[Jarkko]

Sounds fair to me.

[Raiel]

Huh... I'm not sure what happened to the delay, but in case the issue comes up: I am vehemently against a rollback - not least because it took many turns of dancing with Atlantis to create a position to "appear weak where I am strong" (on two fronts simultaeneously, no less).

[ghoul31]

Why didn't you delay the game like you said you would?
Oh well, I just got my new computer, so I'll just play from here on.

[Fantomen]

Huh? I thought I did... Really sorry Ghoul, I must have had some sort of mental blackout...

[Fantomen]

Actually the postponing wasn´t the only thing that didn´t went through. I also sent in a revised turn for Shinuyama, which was confirmed by email, but the orders used was still the ones from the older .2h file.

Also, I delayed BOTH this game AND Zebra but they have both hosted prematurely. So I conclude this was somehow Llamaserver playing tricks on us rather than me having another wave of LSD flashbacks.

Wait... I didn´t mean to write that out loud... edit... hello? EDIT!!!

(Fantomen tries to catch the edit button which has mutated into a pink flying bog beast)

[Jarkko]

Ashdod sure has been a hard nut to crack. Considering BSE staled a couple turns and they've been fighting on all fronts, it *still* took this long to crack their back-bone. Well, technically it is still not over, they have one army left, but with their capital fallen (and no way to take it back), I think it is just a matter of how and where the final show will happen.

Well fought BSE!

[Fantomen]

Ok, it seems I´m once more the captain of a sinking ship. This time you WILL need a new admin, it would be best to hand the job over before I´m completely out of the game. I´m guessing 5-6 turns from now.

It´s been a blast and I rather enjoyed organising this game, the first one for me. I will arrange more games in the future in the same spirit, probably start a new one as soon as someone steps up to take over here.

[ghoul31]

Machaka still has 14 provinces and 3 forts. Maybe you should swith back to them

[Baalz]

I'll admin.

[Fantomen]

Ok, good. Thanks Baalz.


Machaka still has 14 provinces and 3 forts. Maybe you should swith back to them

Really? The AIs been doing well then... In hindsight maybe Machaka would have lasted longer. I thought Shinuyama had a more stable position so the game would be more harmed by it going AI than Machaka, thats why I switched. Unfortunately turning a nation AI is irreversible, one of the flaws of this game. Well, thats life.

[Starshine_Monarch]

I'm not sure I'll make the deadline for this next turn. Can I get a 12 hour delay please?

[Baalz]

I'm not sure I'll make the deadline for this next turn. Can I get a 12 hour delay please?

Done

[ghoul31]

well this game seems to be over.
T'ien Ch'i and R'lyeh have teamed up and taken over most of the map.

[ghoul31]

The counteroffensive has begun. Long live the rebellion!

[Raiel]

The counteroffensive has begun. Long live the rebellion!


:) You had a few more mages within those walls than I expected.

My noobness is showing... even forgot to properly fortify Atlantis' capital against the off chance he'd Call Back his pretender before I hunted him down. Doh!

[Baalz]

It's obvious to me that there is next to no chance of stopping R'yleh. Unless anybody else thinks they have a snowballs chance in hell I say we call the game for Raiel.

[Jarkko]

Have to say I agree with Baalz. R'lyeh is strong in late game, but sometimes struggle in early game... R'lyeh is already now super strong, and we are not even close to the end game yet...

I shouldn't have attacked C'tis, should have tried to gather an alliance to stop R'lyeh, but C'tis did piss me off on purpose by taking that province next to my capital and then even built a fort there. Ok, I got the message, and off to war Pangaea went without considering the greater good...:(

Only if we all drop our small quarrels have we together a chance to stop R'lyeh. And even if we all unite, R'lyeh has the upper hand I think.

[Baalz]

No, I don't think even everybody together has a chance, that's my point. If there was another nation about my size we could probably join forces and make a run at it, but to be blunt I really doubt anybody else is going to be much more than a speedbump at this point. R'yleh has a *lot* of castles and a *lot* of income with research and gem income rapidly spooling up and awesomely powerful recruit anywhere mages. It's a pretty tough order to stop 15 starspawn communioned up spamming enslave mind from behind 40 mind blasters and a bunch of chaff - and R'yleh can more or less field an army like that each turn. Not to mention he's got a incredibly intimidating amount of forts down there, it would take an unimaginable amount of time to storm them with whatever troops we could equip with water breathing items, faced with massive mind hunts, vengeance of the dead, etc.

[Jarkko]

We would thus need about 15 earth attacks targeted at same army, each turn :p I have an itch there may not be 15 E5 mages available, and there might be the slight issue of finding the gems for those 15 earth attacks :p

[Raiel]

It's obvious to me that there is next to no chance of stopping R'yleh. Unless anybody else thinks they have a snowballs chance in hell I say we call the game for Raiel.


Frankly, I'm really surprised by this... I've only collected about 25% of the gems T'ien Ch'i has earned (plus a few from my random events). I only have a few more forts and provinces than you. My gold income is actually slightly lower than yours. I've seen the indy mages you've collected. And you've done twice as much research as I have...

Now, if I were playing against the AI, I'd feel confident against T'ien Ch'i. Because of that, this is the stage where I lose interest in my SP games. From this point on, the only experience I have to draw on is that which has been shared by others in the forums (which I admit to reading somewhat obsessively). I'm up against Baalz, man... the guy that wrote the guides that have gotten me this far.

From here, I can see that I will likely win my current war with Agartha, and if no one interferes I may even win against T'ien Ch'i. But Jarko is talking about me winning a complete DOGPILE... I can't even see that as a possibility. What am I missing?!?

...

O.K... just read the response that Baalz posted. Forgot about VoTD and I dismissed Mind Hunt because he's got so many strong Astral mages. His estimation of my net income is generous, but not that far off. You guys have a MUCH better idea of how things are likely to play out from here. Is my lead really that significant?

[Raiel]

We would thus need about 15 earth attacks targeted at same army, each turn :p I have an itch there may not be 15 E5 mages available, and there might be the slight issue of finding the gems for those 15 earth attacks :p

Oh, Oh!!! I think I stole some E4/5 mages from Agartha! :D (edit: E5 with boots, of course)

[Baalz]

Well, here's the more detailed version of my assessment. R'yleh & TC are probably at more or less a stalemate at the moment with neither being able to make big gains offensively against each other. The problem is TC's power has plateaued, while R'yleh's is growing exponentially. TC has no way to grow while R'yleh can attack everybody else on the map. Out of all those castles you're recruiting extremely powerful combat mages and strong troops equally effective on the land or sea. Out of my castles I'm recruiting good research mages with troops that can't do squat underwater. Counting my cap and indie sites I've got 3 good combat mages coming out per turn and no realistic way to bring any real strength to you underwater - it's almost suicide for any troops that try.

As to the mindhunts, I think you underestimate the difficulties for me there. As you say you haven't really played this stage of the game I'll paint you the picture I assumed this would be:

I expensively outfit a few commanders with sea king's goblets, and a few more mages with rings of water breathing and march under water. I make sure to take two different astral mages in case something happens to one of them. I even take S3 mages, which I only have a 25% chance of getting 1 per turn. You've got 3 castles within 1 moves of where I attacked, so while I'm sieging your castle 10 S3-S4 starspawn (a fraction of what's in there researching) attack scripted to magic duel then retreat. If you're unlucky you lose a couple starspawn, I most certainly lose my astral cover. Now, 10 mind hunts drop, killing my commanders holding sea king goblets, and drowning all my troops without a fight. I also saw you snagging Agartha Oracles so in just a little bit once your research catches up earth attacks will also be regularly squishing whatever astral mages I try to bring underwater. Meanwhile you have the luxury of attacking anywhere along my coast, wherever I don't have critical mass. Each fight leaves you stronger as you enslave mind whatever the toughest things I have there are, while mind blasting everything else. Your research grows exponentially as you leverage all those castles and strong mages, so before very long those communions are dropping will of the fates, army of lead & arcane domination (because, you know I was trying to use mindless magic units).

Anyway, I'll keep playing if others think this isn't a foregone conclusion, that's just my take.

[Raiel]

O.K... that's a pretty good case, but I would have figured you to counter that by regularly teleporting in S2+StarshineCap mages, along with sneaking in whatever Astral Specter Mages you could get. Granted, as I acquire territory and start site-searching (I've mainly searched sea provinces thus far), the former becomes a proportionally expensive counter.

Thanks for the insights!

[Aethyr]

Well...at this point I'm just "honoring the pledge". :)

I have no problem conceeding to R'lyeh.

[Baalz]

Ok, so last call, does anyone not want to declare R'yleh/Raiel the winner?

[statttis]

I was about to launch my underwater invasion a few turns ago but then Pangaea attacked. Now I'm stuck in an ugly war and it doesn't look like I'll be able to help TC with R'lyeh. If Jarkko will agree to a truce I can send my stuff and see what happens. Maybe it will be enough, maybe not.

If not, R'lyeh is the winner.

[chrispedersen]

Sea of Ice?

Astral Corruption?

[Starshine_Monarch]

I haven't even met R'leyh yet, but just going on what people have been saying here, it does seem that even whatever I might be able to do to him at this point would be pretty futile. I want to honor the pledge as well, but I admit it, at this point I'm kind of losing interest. If everyone else does, I will gladly concede to Rlyeh.

[ghoul31]

I have one province and no cities. I'm going to lay low for a bit before I make my great comeback.

[Baalz]

Alright, so it looks like R'yleh's won. Well played
Raiel! I'll wait until after the next host to bring the game down in case anybody wants to object to this call.

[Jarkko]

Alright, so it looks like R'yleh's won. Well played Raiel!

Grats Raiel!


Also, I'd like to gratulate stattis for making a great come-back after I thought I had the lizards on their knees. Some nice battlemagic you had there when the going got tough :)

[ghoul31]

Alright, so it looks like R'yleh's won. Well played Raiel!

Grats Raiel!


Also, I'd like to gratulate stattis for making a great come-back after I thought I had the lizards on their knees. Some nice battlemagic you had there when the going got tough :)

Why were you fighting him, while R'yleh and Tien Chi were taking over the world?

[Raiel]

Alright, so it looks like R'yleh's won. Well played Raiel!

Grats Raiel!


Also, I'd like to gratulate stattis for making a great come-back after I thought I had the lizards on their knees. Some nice battlemagic you had there when the going got tough :)

Why were you fighting him, while R'yleh and Tien Chi were taking over the world?


As Baalz put it earlier, he really had no access to the rest of the world by that point unless he went through me... that was NOT my original plan, BTW. I hadn't planned on taking any of your lands until/unless it became clear that T'ien Ch'i had crippled you. I had intended to go after Shin, C'tis and finally Van if all went well. But I tend to react in a rather instinctive way when someone invades lands I've claimed for my own. :)

[Raiel]

Oops... misread ghoul31's "you" to refer to Baalz... that's what I get for posting before my coffee fix. Sorry.

[statttis]

Also, I'd like to gratulate stattis for making a great come-back after I thought I had the lizards on their knees. Some nice battlemagic you had there when the going got tough :)

It helps when the first arrow hit on your trampling pretender cripples him :D

Anyway, I'm not quite ready to concede the game. I say we give it a few more turns, I have a few tricks warming up.

[Jarkko]

Why were you fighting him, while R'yleh and Tien Chi were taking over the world?

One reason might be that I did not have a border with either at the time... The other is the oh so burning rage at somebody who intentionally crippled your capital :)

[Fantomen]

Since this was the first MP game I organised, I´d like to chip in just to celebrate it´s completion.

Congratulations Raiel to the fast victory.:first:

Thanks everyone else for playing.:ghug:

Welcome in future games, next one up will be a small CBM EA game with similar rules to this one.

[Jarkko]

Thanks to Fantomen for organising the game and to Baalz for administring :)

[Aethyr]

Congratulations Raiel on a well played game.

[Raiel]

I appreciate the encouraging words, guys and gals. It was a pleasure to play with all of you.