Momentum 2 - Finished - Psycho/Pan wins!

[Valerius]

This game will make some changes to (hopefully) eliminate some aspects of the end game I don't find interesting (race for the Chalice/Tarts, clam hoarding). My aim is to reward players who fight and win wars and penalize turtlers.

It will use CBM 1.5 with the following changes:

1) No hoarding. This means gem generators (clams, fetishes and blood stones) and Soul Contracts will be unique. Onaqui will not generate beast bats. Vampire Lords cannot summon vampires.

2) No game winning globals (AN, AC, BoT, FotA, Utterdark).

3) Tartarian Gate will be replaced by individual Summon Tartarian spells. The tarts summoned with these spells will all be commanders, will not have afflictions and will not be insane. Since the need for the Chalice or GoH (or GoR) will be eliminated, tartarians will be priced more in line with other SCs:

Tartarian Titan: 60 D
Tartarian Titaness: 50 D
Tartarian Lightning Cyclops: 50 D
Tartarian Cyclops: 40 D
Tartarian Spirit: 40 D
Tartarian Monstra: 35 D
Tartarian Monstrum: 20 D

Stats and magic paths will be the same as the existing tarts.

Casting requirements will stay the same at D7 (except for the Monstrum at D5) and level will still be Conj. 9 for all types of tarts.

4) Well of Misery will be moved from Conj. 8 to Evo. 8 so someone racing to Conj. 9 can't pick up WoM along the way.

I will make the usual request for players not to abandon the game without finding a sub, but even more importantly, I'd like this to be a quick game: 24 hour hosting until turn 30, 48 hour hosting after that until the end of the game. To make that possible we will only have 8 players.

Hosting: llamaserver
Age: Middle
Map: dead seas, fixed start version of Parganos
Banned nations: Ashdod, water nations

UPDATE: The mod is attached to this post. Please let me know if you run into any problems when testing. NOTE: revised version 1.1 uploaded (you'll know you have the correct version if it says "Momentum2 1.1" in the mod list).

C'tis - yandav (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9224)
Eriu - PsiSoldier (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9148)
Jotunheim - Alpine Joe (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=10339)
Mictlan - AreaOfEffect (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9867)
Pangaea - Psycho (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=9733)
Pythium - Aethyr (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=7914)
T'ien Ch'i - Dragar (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=10050)
Vanheim - Valerius (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=8960)

[Psycho]

I like the idea. I would like in, but I am going on vacation tomorrow. If you don't start by the time I return (which is 25.) please count me in with Pangaea.

[Valerius]

Psycho, I'll mark you down for Pangaea and set the 25th as the start date.

[AreaOfEffect]

Mictlan Please. (I'm assuming its a middle-age game)

[Valerius]

Yes, thanks for mentioning that. Info added to the first post and I marked you down for Mictlan.

[Psycho]

Can we have the blood stone as earth booster without the gemgen effect? Also, are you going to mod out the banned globals?

[Executor]

I like the settings and I'd like to play, but not sure if I'll have the time for this one.:(

[Squirrelloid]

I'm not interested in playing but wanted to comment on the settings.

(1) I don't understand the need people feel to ban those globals. Ok, I can understand FotA and Utterdark. But other than that...

-I can't even figure out what AC is supposed to be off the top of my head, so can't see how its supposed to be game winning.
-Arcane Nexus isn't a game ending global, its a global which, if cast, just lets you know the game was already over and you should surrender. (Anyone who can cast it and keep it has already won). One could probably say the same about Utterdark.
-Burden of Time is not an 'i win' button. Might as well ban spells like Mind Hunt and Seeking Arrow too, or Wild Hunt...

(2) There should be *some* gem generator in Conjuration, possibly maelstrom since you've moved the conj generator to evocation. (Maelstrom might actually get cast sometime if it were in conjuration too).

(3) You can't just ban gem generators without changing some nations. Not that its allowed in this game, but Oceania (esp MA) is crippled by a lack of clamming. Abyssia desperately needs bloodstones. Etc... Just removing them isn't the answer - those nations which depend on them need compensation.

[Executor]

I'm guessing you haven't been in too many late stage games?

All those games rely on whoever has the most gemgens to win basically.
AC is absolutely a game winning spell as you can hardly dispel it with the amount of slaves you can put in it. Combine it with Armageddon and well, it's game over as there won't be anything left, no gold, no gems, no mages, and than, again, the biggest clam holder wins, for example...

AN isn't a spell that secures you victory, it helps by a great amount but it doesn't win the game for you by far, as you'll automatically be declared enemy of all.

These settings propose an unorthodox playstyle, as ALL the games are about rushing for the chalice and tartarians, along with making gemgen. Here, there is no need for it, and theses settings will demand some other end game strategies besides clamming, wishing and summoning Tarts.

As for balance, every setting you make benefits one and hurts the other nation, there can't be perfect balance.

[Alpine Joe]

I really like these settings.

Time to spend some time thinking about how it will effect my nation choice of Jotunheim

[Aethyr]

I love this idea. Pythium please.

[Valerius]

@Psycho: I've searched the forums and tried tests on my own but I don't see a way to keep blood stones as only a path booster. I think the problem is that modding magic items is limited; in particular it doesn't seem you can create a new magic item that has a special effect like path boosting. This leaves us with modding unique items and making them non-unique. The three candidates are the Pebble Skin Suit, Boots of Antaeus and Tome of Gaia. The Pebble Skin Suit will give the wearer stoneskin, regeneration and turn them into a troll eventually. The Boots of Antaeus grant reinvigoration and regeneration in addition to boosting E by 1. This might actually be the best bet since we can mod this item to use a different slot (maybe the body slot to limit its use in thugs/SCs?). The Tome of Gaia boosts E and N which is likely more than we'd want this booster to accomplish. If we can agree on a candidate we could mod one of these to serve as an E booster.

Yes, I will mod out the banned globals. So far I have most of the mod complete but I want to double check the tarts to make sure I don't miss anything and I also have to create an onaqui that doesn't summon beast bats.

@Squirrelloid: Executor addressed some of your points but I'll add a couple of things. If this were a larger game I'd likely agree with you that some nations need to be compensated for removing gem gens but with only 8 players no one will be forced to play a nation that needs them. It's unfortunate if this means someone can't play their favorite nation but rebalancing gem gen dependant nations is beyond the scope of this game/mod. As regards Conj. not having a gem generating global, well I'm not sure that it needs one. Even without one, everyone will still research Conj. OTOH it may turn out that putting WoM in Evo. isn't a good idea. Hopefully this will be a fun game and the quick pace will mean in a few months we can fine-tune the settings and try again.

@Executor/Alpine Joe/Aethyr: Executor, I hope you can play. In case it helps, the game won't start until the 25th... Alpine Joe and Aethyr, I've signed you up for Jotun and Pythium respectively. We're over halfway there!

[Executor]

Leave me a spot with Machaka open for me please Valerius.

[Valerius]

Done!

[Squirrelloid]

I suppose it already feels like Maelstrom never gets cast because most nations who would want it have little reason to research that much evocation. I have this feeling Well of Misery will end up in the same boat if its in evocation, although there is more for a death nation there than for a water nation. I might recommend putting Well of Misery in a school that someone with death mages might actually consider researching otherwise.

Evocation makes virtually no sense for Well of Misery thematically, anyway. Perhaps Enchantment would make more sense?

[Valerius]

I agree Evo. doesn't work thematically and Ench. was actually my first thought. But my model was Gale Gate (Thaum. 8 for an air nation?!) and I wanted it to be out of the way. We'll see how it goes, but this and possibly adjusting tart costs will be the most likely changes if there is a second game with these settings.

As far as Maelstrom, it seems to me that water nations are one of the two types (the other being fire) with an incentive to go to Evo. 8/9. If Maelstrom is cast less than the other gem gen globals it may be due in part to the fact the water gems are not viewed very highly (apart from clamming). This is definitely not the case with death gems - I think people will research a school just to get WoM (especially with the changes to tarts). If they are a fire/water nation they'll just get an additional bonus from its placement in Evo. in this game.

[Aethyr]

Val, there are a few pretenders (Ghost King, etc.) that auto spawn units, do you plan to restrict these as well?

[archaeolept]

those pretender auto-spawns aren't game breaking at all; I wouldn't worry about any of them. Vampire Lords should be changed, though.

All those globals are pretty boring, and I'm not unhappy to see them go.

The costs for the tarts should perhaps be modified a bit. earth cyclops and the monstra 35 perhaps. monstrum only d5 to cast, perhaps?

[Valerius]

I agree that auto spawning pretenders are ok. As an aside, though the mod isn't ready yet if anyone would like to test builds you can use CBM 1.5 since I don't intend to make any changes to pretenders and scales.

Maybe a good rule of thumb is that if the unit is unique (pretender, elemental royalty) the ability to auto spawn/summon allies is ok but if it is not unique then it runs the risk of being abused.

Following that logic it makes sense that vampire lords should be modded to remove their summon ally ability. The only other unit I can think of is the faery queen with summoning sprites. Admittedly I've never heard of anyone using this strategy but following the unique/non-unique rule it seems to make sense. Any other units come to mind?

Archaeo, I like the idea of only requiring D5 for the Monstrum since I wondered if anyone would summon it even at a cost of 20 D gems and considered giving it 1 or 2 misc slots in addition to the head slot to make it more appealing. Having a cost of 35 gems for the Monstra and Earth Cyclops is also worth considering, though in the case of the Earth Cyclops I want to be careful of setting the cost too low on an SC with full slots.

[Dragar]

I really shouldn't be playing but i love these setting, so put me down for Tien Chi please

[AreaOfEffect]

Wrath Lords can summon 1 ghost a turn.
Werewolves can summon 3 wolves a turn. (Gotten from Call of the Wild)
Mound Fiends can reanimate.

Honestly, I never saw any of the non-unique units-that-make-units make a real difference in a game. At least not by virtue of just making units. Often the opportunity cost of not using them as thugs is way too high.

[Valerius]

Dragar, I've signed you up as TC.

Thanks for the list AOE. I have to admit I also haven't heard of any of the units you mention (as well as faery queens) being abused. So I think I'll leave those as-is (less modding for me to do ;)) unless there are strenuous objections.

But I'll follow Archaeo's suggestion and mod vampire lords to eliminate their summon ally ability.

[PsiSoldier]

I'm not too sure about removing vamp lords summon allies ability. After all there is already plenty of conflicting ideas about vamps being worth summoning in the first place. Actually Ive only ever really seen them used in two games and I stomped both nations that were using hordes of them against me.

[Lingchih]

OK. I need a game, and this one looks good. Sign me up as Mari.

[Valerius]

Hi, Lingchih. PsiSoldier PM'd me that he'd like in 10 minutes before you posted. But if you'd really like to participate I'll step aside and just admin the game. Either way, I'll close recruitment now.

[Valerius]

Regarding vampire lords, I know there's debate about the usefulness of the vampires they summon. Admittedly it's not as worrisome a prospect as when vampire lords cost 44 blood slaves in CBM as they did a couple versions back but I think I'm still going to eliminate this ability.

[Lingchih]

Heh, no, If Psi got in first, you guys go ahead and play. I got in on this game late.

[Valerius]

Ok, thanks. Sorry for the confusion.

[Lingchih]

or, you could just make it 9 nations. I don't think it would mess up the map too much.


Sorry, I just got knocked out of a game, and need a new one. I'm perfectly fine if you guys cannot fit me in though.

[Valerius]

Hmm, well the map would go from 14.5 land provinces per player to just under 13. That I think is ok but the thing I liked about this was the balanced fixed starts.

[PsiSoldier]

Sorry if you have been waiting on me, I guess you need to know my nation so you can set start locations. I suppose I'll go with Eriu. Cant hurt to have a nation with stealthy commanders that can single handedly wipe out entire armies and sneak away before ritual spells can target them :D

[Calahan]

Wrath Lords can summon 1 ghost a turn.
Werewolves can summon 3 wolves a turn. (Gotten from Call of the Wild)
Mound Fiends can reanimate.

Draconian Chief's can summon 1 Draconian a turn.

[AreaOfEffect]

Calahan has just ruined my plan to build a never ending supply of handless winded dudes. Foiled once again.

[PsiSoldier]

I thought he originally said "auto summon" not units that can summon allies.. In my mind there is a difference.

[Valerius]

I agree there's a difference. In one case you have the opportunity cost AOE mentioned. I did originally mean only auto spawn units but I agree with Archaeo's point about vamps. It may be partly because of a feeling that the changes made for this game have reduced the gem supply in the end game but I haven't done anything to nerf blood. I think removing vampire lords' summon ally ability (in addition to the soul contract and onaqui changes) is reasonable.

Following up on the issue of using blood stones only as path boosters, not gem gens, I still haven't had any success with this. I'm going to post in the mods forum in case more experienced modders have ideas. If no solutions present themselves I'm inclined to go without a second earth booster (and believe me I'd like a misc slot earth booster for my Vanadrotts).

[Aethyr]

There are a few pretender builds that auto-generate gems, will these be left in tact?

[Valerius]

No changes to those (or any other) pretenders.

BTW, I haven't had a chance to work on the mod the past few days but I should have it ready for review in the next day.

[Aethyr]

OK--thanks

[Valerius]

I have attached the mod to the first post. Please let me know if you run into any problems. You will want to have only this mod active when creating your pretender - it includes CBM so you don't want that active as well.

[Valerius]

I don't think anyone downloaded the mod yet but FYI I uploaded a revised version (you'll know you have the correct version if it says "Momentum2 1.1" in your mod list).

[Valerius]

Also, the first post has been updated and reflects the final changes to the mod. Rather than eliminating clams, blood stones and fetishes and soul contracts completely I made them unique. Slightly adjusted cost of Monstra. And eliminated Vampire Lords summon ally ability.

[Valerius]

Ok, I had a chance to do some testing today and everything seems fine with the mod. The only strange thing I noticed is that when you summon an Onaqui you also get 8 beast bats. But the Onaqui does not auto spawn beast bats after that so I think that's ok.

Anyway, the game is on the llamaserver and ready to accept pretenders!

[Executor]

Valerius, I apologize as I'll have to back out of this game, I don't have time for it after all, trying to work something out to stay in the games I'm currently in.

[Valerius]

Sorry to hear that, Executor.

I've PM'd Lingchih to see if he's still interested. If he isn't, I'll open up recruitment again.

[Valerius]

Ling has filled his quota of games so we'll need one more player.

[ghoul31]

I'll take caelum

[Valerius]

Ok, you're signed up and game is closed.

[Psycho]

I got back from my vacation today (I was off by one day, sorry about that) to find out that my telephone line, and my ADSL internet connection with it, have been disconnected.

Short story: I am going to be without internet access for an undetermined amount of time. Feel free to start without me, as I have delayed this game long enough.

Long story: I am a tennant and my landlord had bought the flat where I live a couple of years ago. She asked to have the telephone line in the flat changed to her name a while ago, but the telephone company did nothing. While I was away, the former owner filed to have the telephone line moved (I am not even sure what this means) and the telephone company swiftly disconnected the line. I don't know what happens next. Probably my landlord should get a new line for me, but I don't know how long it will take. It may happen today or it may happen who knows when. I'll come back as soon as I have internet access if you don't start without me.

[Alpine Joe]

I'm fine with giving Psycho a couple of days to sort his stuff out, if it comes down to a vote. If by the weekend he still has no internet we can look for a replacement?

[Dragar]

i vote to wait for him

[Valerius]

I think Alpine Joe's suggestion is a good one. Let's give it a couple days; hopefully the phone company will act quickly. If there's no ETA at that point then I think we'll have to look for a sub or start losing players.

I know we're getting off to a slow start but I think we've got a good group of players here that can keep up the quick pace I set for the game. I hope everyone hangs in there a little longer.

[Valerius]

It looks like Psycho didn't have any luck getting a fast response from the phone company. I think we need to get the game started so I'm opening up recruitment for one more player.

[Valerius]

Bump.

[yandav]

I'd like to give a try to C'tis but I never played this nation (even in SP) so I'd need at least 48 hours to build a pretender. Is that okay for you?

[Valerius]

No problem. When you create your pretender please make sure to only have the mod attached to the first post active. Whenever you're ready just e-mail the pretender to the llamaserver and the game will start.

Welcome to the game!

[yandav]

I've just looked at C'tis and they seem to be built to clam, so I'd rather take Arcocephale.

[Valerius]

Ok, I've updated the first post. But if you change your mind, you can choose any nation not yet selected (well, aside from Ashdod and the water nations).

[Valerius]

And the game has begun! Thanks everyone for your patience.

[ghoul31]

It asked me to choose a nation, but there wen't any nations listed.

[Valerius]

Did you have the Momentum2 mod (and only that mod) active when you created your pretender? That's the only thing I can think of.

[Valerius]

Actually, I think it's just that you forgot to download the turn file to the Momentum2 folder you created in your savedgames folder. Make sure you have a file called mid_caelum.trn in there.

[Psycho]

No luck with the phone yet. It's a shame, I had an interesting build devised for pangaea. Well, good luck with the game everyone.

[Valerius]

Sorry it didn't work out, Psycho. Can't say I'm surprised it's taking the phone company so long to reestablish service.

I was actually really worried about Pan. I didn't want to change the rules after the fact but when you selected Pan it occurred to me that maenads are auto-spawn units. Without gem generators I'm guessing taking Pan's castles would have become even more difficult (unless of course your build incorporated Order scales).

[ghoul31]

my computer has died so I won't be playing

[Psycho]

My line is working again. Thanks to a friend who knows a friend who knows a guy in the telephone company.

I can come back instead of ghoul31 if he can't fix his computer.

I don't want to say anything about my build, but I don't think maenads break the game. Yes they are freespawn, but not nearly as powerful as vampires or other freespawn units you took out. Plus, going that route has its drawbacks, because you have to take turmoil and pans eat a lot of upkeep, so you are very strapped for cash. You can almost forget about recruiting any real troops.

[Valerius]

Ok, Psycho, you're back in! Resetting the game to accept pretenders now. Sorry everyone for the setback. We really are about to get started. Darn, I really liked my starting position. :rolleyes:

[Valerius]

Game has been reset and Caelum pretender deleted so we're ready for your pretender.

[Psycho]

I haven't made my pretender yet. I haven't even seen your mod yet. I'll try to finish my pretender by the end of the day.

[Valerius]

Sure, no problem. Please only have the mod active when creating the pretender. Thanks.

[Psycho]

I'm done. You can start the game now.

[Valerius]

The game is started (again)! This time I think we're really ready to go. We've already got four turns in.

[Aethyr]

Sigh...and I'd like my first position sooooo much. And now wilely Psycho enters the fray...Welcome! :)

[Psycho]

Let's go Jotunheim, do your turn

[Psycho]

I think tartarians are still underpriced. Tartarian spirit is essentially an earth king and those guys cost 50 gems. I would probably price each of them 10 gems higher and male titans, lightning cyclopes and monstras even more. I predict that if we see tartarians, it will be only these three types. Monstras for the best magic diversity for price, lightning cyclopes because each of them is a great teleporting SC and titans because they get 2 levels over female titans for only 10 gem difference.

[Valerius]

That's a fair assessment. Tart pricing will be the biggest thing to fine-tune. Fortunately, if the pricing is off everyone can benefit from it. But it's unfortunate if nations with national summons find them to be too unoptimal to summon. National summons add flavor to the game and should, if anything, be a better deal than general summons.

I hesitated about reducing the Monstra price. In the end I figured at that stage of the game you have other sources of magic diversity (including other tarts that are also good combat chassis) and so they should be given a slight discount. But I might have been wrong about that.

I wonder if anyone will summon a Monstrum? I'd like to do something to make them worthwhile. In addition to price adjustments I thought about giving them one or more of the following next time: a magic weapon attack, 2-3 misc slots, a body slot, a guaranteed level 2 in a useful path like earth in addition to a level 2 random path.

[AreaOfEffect]

I wouldn't worry too much. This is a rather small game and if tons of Tarts start being thrown around, well then someone has done something wrong and failed to win the game when they had the advantage.

Besides, tarts are the least scariest SC in the game because they are undead. They are best used as a back-row caster or as an airdropped SC against an unprepared army in my opinion.

[Valerius]

I wouldn't worry too much. This is a rather small game and if tons of Tarts start being thrown around, well then someone has done something wrong and failed to win the game when they had the advantage.

Yeah, even if they are underpriced they are still more expensive than if using the Chalice/GoH in a regular game. Combined with the ban on gem gens I'd expect to see fewer SCs than one would normally expect for a game this size.

Besides, tarts are the least scariest SC in the game because they are undead. They are best used as a back-row caster or as an airdropped SC against an unprepared army in my opinion.

Their being undead did factor into my pricing in that I didn't want to make them too expensive and then a couple bane lords with anti-undead weapons kill them in one round.

I also asked myself: if you can get any SC in the game for 120 gems (wish + GoR), how many tarts is that SC worth?

BTW, good job everyone immediately completing your next turn if you're last to submit the current turn. We are on a faster than 24 hour pace.

[Valerius]

It's almost like a blitz! Less than 12 hours turnaround on that turn. :)

[Dragar]

pffft... that turn was slow

[PsiSoldier]

Blahh Maybe a bit too fast seeing as how I forgot to put my sneaky prophet to Move instead of sneak resulting in my what was left of my starting army moving in by themselves and being slaughtered. But HEY!! The 15 of them did manage to kill ((1)) barbarian. :D

heh.. Ahh well doesnt matter really. Guess It's just less upkeep that I didnt really need. I suppose that just means more kills for my prophet next turn.

I'm just not used to playing stealthy nations, it's just too damn easy to forget to change them to move instead of sneak.

[PsiSoldier]

What the hell?!? I think the game goofed up somehow.

For some reason I have 3 candles WAY way off in Jotun's province's like 6 move's from my territory.

Kinda seems like Ive seen something like that happen before but its still weird.

[Valerius]

What the hell?!? I think the game goofed up somehow.

For some reason I have 3 candles WAY way off in Jotun's province's like 6 move's from my territory.

Kinda seems like Ive seen something like that happen before but its still weird.

I can't recall seeing it myself but I think I remembering reading about it in a thread about dominion spread.

I'm just not used to playing stealthy nations, it's just too damn easy to forget to change them to move instead of sneak.

I mostly play stealth nations so I now automatically hold down the control key, even when none of the units are stealthy. ;)

[Calahan]

I'm just not used to playing stealthy nations, it's just too damn easy to forget to change them to move instead of sneak.
One thing I find useful when playing stealth nations is that once you have completed your turn, spend a few minutes looking around the map at your movement arrows. As stealth movement will appear grey, with normal movement appearing red. Even if you have two arrows going from and to the same province, the grey stealth arrow can still be seen as it will appear longer than the red one.

Had many stealth accidents as MA Pan in one of my first MP games, so know how annoying it can be when things go wrong due to sneaking units.

[AreaOfEffect]

What the hell?!? I think the game goofed up somehow.

For some reason I have 3 candles WAY way off in Jotun's province's like 6 move's from my territory.

Kinda seems like Ive seen something like that happen before but its still weird.

There are some unlucky events that cause the dominion of another nation to appear in your province. You were the lucky one chosen by this misfortunate event.

[Alpine Joe]

What the hell?!? I think the game goofed up somehow.

For some reason I have 3 candles WAY way off in Jotun's province's like 6 move's from my territory.

Kinda seems like Ive seen something like that happen before but its still weird.

There are some unlucky events that cause the dominion of another nation to appear in your province. You were the lucky one chosen by this misfortunate event.

Yep, that is what happened. Stupid Heretic sects in the heart of my territory :mad:

[PsiSoldier]

Heretics??? No those Jotun people just realized who their one true god is. The rest of them will come around eventually :D

[PsiSoldier]

There are some unlucky events that cause the dominion of another nation to appear in your province. You were the lucky one chosen by this misfortunate event.

If that's the kind of luck I'm getting in this game, maybe I can trade it in for a few less group's of Knight's attacking my provinces and just call it even.

[PsiSoldier]

Come on TC were waiting on you cupcake. I mean jeez its been like 3 whole hours now since we got the new turn and you still havent submitted yours :D Your holding us all up. Hahaha

Yeah... this game is going pretty quick so far. That's good.

[Psycho]

Considering how spread around the world we are, we are going at an amazing speed. I think it's 7 am for Dragar now, maybe he'll do his turn before going to work/school.

[Dragar]

indeed :)

[Valerius]

Yes, we are definitely living up to the name "Momentum". :)

[PsiSoldier]

Uggghhh. I'm getting attacked by Barbarians and Knights and **** almost every damn turn. This is getting ridiculous.

Why couldnt the bad luck have waited until after I had expanded a bit to start when I would have at least had money to recruit.

Got attacked by two damn barbarian hordes this turn instead of the usual one even. Luckily I beat one of them.

[Psycho]

Psi, I think you are painting a big target sign over yourself. I am surprised you haven't been attacked yet.

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm being sympathetic. I know what the smart move is, but sometimes its more fun to play like an idiot. Besides, I don't want to inherit his bad luck.

[PsiSoldier]

Not like I'm saying anything that anyone cant see from the graphs already...

In fact I'd say that in general it would be better for people to know that it was Random events that caused me to loose province's because some people tend to jump on the dogpile if they can find a nation that is already at war with someone else since it makes them an easier target (or at least a bit easier than someone simply having bad luck)

I'm not at war with anyone but simply having horrible luck.

[Valerius]

Psi, I'm not sure what your Luck/Misfortune settings are, but in this game I had three turns in a row with unrest causing events in my capitol (I took a Misfortune 1 scale), driving unrest well over 50.

I know it makes sense to take Misfortune scales long term but early game it can really kill you. I was lucky that I already had a couple expansion parties out before being hit with those turns.

Also, is there war between Pan and Jotun?

[Psycho]

If you look at my income graph, you can see two unrest events in my capitol in the first 4 turns.

[Valerius]

Yeah, actually our graphs are pretty similar - just took me an extra turn to recover from the second dip.

But I notice you didn't comment on my Pan/Jotun question. ;)

[AreaOfEffect]

While were talking about unrest events, I win with the first turn unrest on my cap.

Eidt: Or lose depending on the outcome of this game.

[Valerius]

I see what you're talking about. That was a real drop in your income. Even with your sacreds that probably set your expansion back a couple of turns.

[PsiSoldier]

This is absolutely retarded... My wonderful streak of luck continues..

This turn...

1. 100 Barbs Attacked my capital Luckily I won that battle.
2. Locust swarms struck, eating crops, causing panic and resulting in loss of 100 pounds of gold

And last but not least

3. "Hordes of Peasants left my capital in search of a better place to live" Who the hell can blame them with my luck.

If I had turmoil and misfortune I could understand all this. But I dont... It is absolutely insane.. And nearly every damn turn this game has been about like this.

[Valerius]

"Hordes of Peasants left my capital in search of a better place to live" Who the hell can blame them with my luck.


LOL

[yandav]

Ouch! I'm suffering a 2 against 1 attack from Pythium and Tien Chi. I won't last long but I think it's my duty to inform their neighbours that Tien Chi's and Pythium's forces are concentrated in the southwest of the map. :D

[AreaOfEffect]

Not to interject, as I'm not even your neighbor, but your opposition doesn't look that threatening. Aside from some hydras, I have yet to see them use anything of quality against you. Their mostly just throwing indy troops at you from what I can see.

You on the other hand are C'tis, and though none of your tools are particularly great, they are diverse enough to deal with most anything. You just need to whip out the right troops against them. I feel for you guy. PM me if you can't figure out a strategy.

[Aethyr]

As Pan is prepared to pounch on me, I expect that I'l be even more unthreateing in the near future. :D

[Valerius]

The Vanir are pleased to announce the commencement of Operation Lizard Rescue. This month Vanir forces liberated several provinces suffering under the oppressive rule of the Celestial Empire and destroyed a temple to the false god of T'ien Ch'i. Save the lizards!

[Psycho]

I am only wondering who will liberate all those provinces from the oppressive rule of the Vanir. Valerius, slow down.

[Valerius]

Why would anyone want to be liberated from Vanheim? :shock: We are fair rulers and our people are happy (really, we've got good scales!).

But I have no desire to become a target so I'll mention a couple of things:

* C'tis was right that he wouldn't last long against two opponents. I've just evened the odds. TC took one of C'tis' three forts already and has his army next door to what I'm guessing is C'tis' capitol.

* Aside from this turn the increase in my provinces the past few turns has largely been due to taking sea provinces as a buffer. The provinces yield no gold or gems so they aren't any benefit to me other than as a buffer.

[Dragar]

Well, the only nation not embroiled in war currently shall naturally have to attack Vanheim while he is engaged in the noble lands of Tien Chi. It's all up to you Eriu!

[Valerius]

BTW, who is Pan fighting? At first I thought it was Jotun, then Mictlan, is it now Pythium?

[Dragar]

As Pan is prepared to pounch on me, I expect that I'l be even more unthreateing in the near future. :D


looks like pythium

[AreaOfEffect]

A word of advice, don't cast Iron Skin when the opposition has air mages.

[Psycho]

Hey, Aethyr, isn't it too early to be starting with scorched earth?

[Aethyr]

I'd hardly call maximizing income out of provinces I chose not to defend (assuming rightly that I'd been infiltrated by your sneak forces) "scorched earth".

Pythium's mages are expensive and I want to have as many as I can to properly welcome you when you decide to visit my capitol. :p

[Psycho]

So, now what? You will let me take all your provinces, except the capital? Or you will try to reclaim the now useless provinces with the troops bought from the money you got while destroying them?

[Aethyr]

Useless? Destroyed? Well, if that's the way you feel I will indeed be happy to take them off your hands. As soon as I come up with something that vaugely resembles a strategy I'll be sure to let you in on the whole plan. :re:

[AreaOfEffect]

12 hours and 24 minutes to generate the most recent turn. Nice.

[PsiSoldier]

Eriu gives notice on its NAP to the early usurpers of our lands TC.. Turn 26

For what it matters since it looks like Vanhiem will have finished TC before we even have a chance to reclaim what TC stole from us during our troubled beginnings.

[Aethyr]

Valerius,

I have to take a short day trip for business. May I have a 4 hour extension for the current turn? Thanks

[Valerius]

No problem, I've delayed hosting until 14:00 GMT Thursday. Kind of strange that it hasn't updated on the llamaserver yet - but the admin log does indicate hosting was postponed. I'll keep an eye on it and turn off quickhost if needed.

[Valerius]

Beginning with the next turn we will be moving to 48 hour hosting. While we will technically be at 48 hour hosting, given the way things have gone so far I think we'll effectively still be at around a 24 hour pace.

Also, I know things aren't looking good for some nations and, though I never mentioned anything about this in the first post, I appreciate everyone playing it through to the end. We haven't had one stale in this game despite the quick pace! :up:

[yandav]

Sorry for the silly question but: what are the victory conditions? (I'd suggest the greatest number of lizards :) )

[AreaOfEffect]

Whoever gets Jotunheim capitol of course.

Edit:Technically that means Jotunheim won a long long time ago.

[Valerius]

The game is set for default victory conditions - eliminate all other pretenders' provinces or dominion. Or of course, as is usually the case, all opponents concede. So we won't have to worry about any controversy regarding VPs. ;)

Hosting has been changed to 48 hours but let's try to keep up with the quick pace we've set thus far. :)

[AreaOfEffect]

My experience tells me that if you expand the hosting time, people will always take longer to submit their turns, sometimes disproportionately. Procrastination always manages to grab hold of at least one person every turn. Its not always the same person, but it happens nonetheless and the only force that tends to counter it is the pressure of a short deadline.

My point is that you can kiss the 12 hour turns goodbye forever. Say hello to an average of 42 hour turns, assuming people won't start staling that is.

[Psycho]

It is not realistic to have 12 hour turns this far into game. Anyway, I liked a day off Dominions after the killer tempo we had.

[Valerius]

I somewhat reluctantly changed the hosting time because things were moving so quickly. But I think it's important to stay with the game description I posted and that did indicate a switch to 48 hours at this point. Though if no one objected I'd be happy to switch back to 24 hours or maybe 36 as a compromise.

The other thing is, if anyone gets to the point that they feel they're finished please set yourself AI rather than just stale and have the game take the full hosting period. And don't forget to submit the turn after you issue AI orders since the game will wait for that turn file.

BTW, I changed the e-mail notifications from 6 hours before hosting to 9 hours before hosting.

[Alpine Joe]

As the only player I know of to be close to dying, I will state now that I plan to fight until the bitter end without staling out.

But essentially congrats to AoE on eliminating me. Your rush came at just the right time, and a costly mistake with my cyclops spelled my doom. Hopefully you can translate this momentum into victory. Thanks also to Psycho for the aid, the few gems I have left from the resistance will go to you on my last turn.

[Calahan]

... the few gems I have left from the resistance will go to you on my last turn.
You can actually still send gems/items/gold once you have been defeated. Since you get sent a file turn file telling you that you have been defeated, so you can use that turn to send whatever you have left in your kingdom to other players. Doing it this way (instead of sending stuff out the turn you 'expect' to die) also makes sure you remember to send in that final .2h file :)

[AreaOfEffect]

I know its unrealistic to maintain ~12 hours turns at certain points of the game, I'm just noting a fact of human nature. Its even more noticeable when people move from 48 hours to 72.

I'm okay with a 48 hour turn limit for now, and I'm certainly not upset. As a general rule I wouldn't decrease the limit once its been extended as it can really mess some people up.

[AreaOfEffect]

Thanks Alpine for putting up a good fight. Your Cyclops was a real pain to deal with and surely took his fair share of kills. Yet, in the end there is just only so much one combatant can do and the game is full of foils for SCs. You did what you could and it made this game very enjoyable.

Good luck in the future.

[Valerius]

As the only player I know of to be close to dying, I will state now that I plan to fight until the bitter end without staling out.

Thanks for playing through to the end Alpine.

You can actually still send gems/items/gold once you have been defeated.

Good point; it was quite a surprise to me the first time I received a posthumous gift from an eliminated nation. I thought it was a bug in the game. :)

I know its unrealistic to maintain ~12 hours turns at certain points of the game, I'm just noting a fact of human nature. Its even more noticeable when people move from 48 hours to 72.

Definitely; that's why I didn't put 72 hours as an eventual hosting time. Obviously if there are only a couple players left and they both agree to a longer hosting interval than 48 hours, no problem. But otherwise we are on 48 hour hosting until the end.

[Aethyr]

Well, the writing has been on the wall for me for some time now--1st time w/pythium and WAY too many bad choices. I don't think I'll be around much longer.

[AreaOfEffect]

I can see from the charts that you lost most of your forces in what I can only imagine was a brutal slaughter. I know your not dead yet, but I still want to take the time to wish you luck in your other games.

[Aethyr]

Many thanks--luck to you as well.

[AreaOfEffect]

"We, the nation of Mictlan, declare the long standing peace between us and Pangaea officially over. We wish to engage the nation in an honorable war. As such, we will of course honor our 3 round NAP. We would also ask that all other nations allow this conflict to proceed without interference, at least until a victor can be assessed."

Personally, I would enjoy taking on Psycho as I think him to be a good player who has several advantages over me at the moment.

[Aethyr]

I've set myself to AI this turn. Thanks for organizing Valerius. Good luck everyone. :)

[AreaOfEffect]

You still need to submit your turn Aethyr. Did you forget to include the 2h file?

[Aethyr]

No, the last turn was sent. Thanks

[Psycho]

"We, the nation of Mictlan, declare the long standing peace between us and Pangaea officially over. We wish to engage the nation in an honorable war. As such, we will of course honor our 3 round NAP. We would also ask that all other nations allow this conflict to proceed without interference, at least until a victor can be assessed."

Personally, I would enjoy taking on Psycho as I think him to be a good player who has several advantages over me at the moment.

Oh, and I was looking forward to a period of peace and prosperity. This is most unwelcome. Would you mind letting me finish with Pyth first and rebuild my army? :) Also, could you share those advantages with me, just in case I missed something obvious.

Aethyr, GG, you held on for a long time. I should have been more aggressive in the beginning, but I knew nothing about your army, research or pretender, so I went too cautiously. If you didn't move the pretender from your dominion I would have a very hard time killing him.

[AreaOfEffect]

Sorry Aethyr, my eyes deceived me.

Those advantages are research and gem income, the most important graphed advantages anyone could ever have in my opinion. Also, your army size is about as large as mine. Not to mention that you have sleeper thugs and Wyvern squads led by Great Eagles. Your Vampire Queen also spits out a vampire ever so often, which means you have reusable flying units led by a reusable flying caster. My only graphed advantage over you is my income, which doesn't compare to gems in any way.

In light of that I'm not sure you need any extra rounds.

[Valerius]

Thanks for playing, Aethyr!

I've got to get some scouts to the Pan/Mictlan border. This should be a good show. :)

[Psycho]

Oh, you meant the graphs. I was thinking along the lines of some good counters to what you are fielding. Ok, so attack orders on turn 39 or on turn 40?

[AreaOfEffect]

You should receive 3 rounds of peace total, which you have received one round already. That means there are 2 rounds left. Attack orders will be issued on round 39.

I think you'll do fine. Good luck.

[Valerius]

I postponed hosting because AOE's turn wasn't in; which is strange since he usually has his turn in within the first 24 hours.

[Psycho]

There are going to be some repairs on the electric network in my area during the weekend, so I might end up without electricity for periods of time. Val, could you check that my next turn is in and postpone if necessary.

[Valerius]

Will do. If needed I'll postpone hosting to make sure I'm around when hosting occurs and can confirm your turn is in.

[AreaOfEffect]

Thanks a lot Valerius. I for some reason I thought I submitted my turn in before I went away for a two days. Turns out that never happened.

[Valerius]

No problem. I try to check the server before hosting in case turns are missing. It's subjective of course; if a nation is on the way out it's probably not worth delaying hosting.

[Psycho]

Force host, please.

[Valerius]

Done. I'll do this as needed over the next few turns.

[Valerius]

Psycho requested a 6 hour delay for this turn so hosting has been postponed to 23:00 GMT Tuesday.

[Psycho]

Guys, I am sorry to be stalling the game, but I need another delay. This time 24h. RL is getting crazy these days. Normally I'd do a 5 min turn, but with Mictlan running about my lands, it would be a disaster.

[Valerius]

Ok, hosting has been postponed until 23:00 GMT Friday.

[Psycho]

If anybody was wandering how the war between Pangaea and Mictlan is progressing, well, AoE is beating me soundly. I can't seem to do anything right. :( It's as if he's reading my mind.

[Psycho]

Finally the first victory for Pangaea! Lord Shiver singlehandedly lifted the siege from castle Chilad. May he lead Pangaean armies into new victories.

AoE, I figured you would use a golem and/or the pegasi army in 118 to take a province next to castle Chilad, so you would have somewhere to retreat. I am surprised I managed to kill them all.

[AreaOfEffect]

Things happen. Usually right after you underestimate someone.

[Valerius]

AOE, I'm not sure if you just submitted a turn but it was getting close to the deadline so I postponed hosting.

[Psycho]

And the hammer falls. The trap, designed by Silena with utmost care, was executed perfectly by her lieutenants. When all escape routes for the enemy were cut off, the final blow was hers to make.

Now, after four long months, the halfmen of Resting Heights are free again. Forests are echoing with voices of laughter, birds are singing, life has resumed its normal course.

Further south, Castle Chilad is under siege again. But, the enemy is shaken and all Silena's attention can now be turned to lifting that siege. Things start to look promising for the nation of Pangaea again.

[AreaOfEffect]

I wouldn't celebrate so early.

[Psycho]

I am celebrating my small victory. I know the war is far from over.

[Psycho]

I've sent my turn several times. I hope llamaserver recognizes it before hosting.

[PsiSoldier]

Yeah, Ditto. Ive noticed that it hasnt recieved my turn as well although it has been sent.

The turn should have hosted by now too.

[Valerius]

I postponed hosting by 24 hours a half hour before the scheduled hosting time but that didn't take for obvious reasons. We'll see what happens; hopefully all the turns will arrive before hosting. If not, we may have no choice but to rollback.

[AreaOfEffect]

The llamaserver has done this before. It will accept people's turns as soon as llamabeast fixes the issue. There should be no need for a rollback. My suggestion is not to do anything more with the admin options.

Edit: Message from llamabeast forewarning this event (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=715355#post715355). It seems this issue is particularly special and we'll have to wait for llamabeast to recover from his long and exhausting day.

[Psycho]

Hmmm, I got about three times more confirmations than the number of turns I sent. And after that several mails claiming that valid 2h file hasn't been found. I tried sending again, but got no confirmation. Valerius, maybe it would be a good idea to turn quickhost off and delay hosting (if that is possible), so we can have a chance to resend turns.

[Valerius]

I tried turning off quickhost a half an hour ago but the server hasn't indicated it accepted that change. I also tried postponing hosting by 24 hours. At the moment the llamaserver isn't responding at all.

[AreaOfEffect]

All turns are in. Your requests seemed to have gone through. The llamaserver still has the hiccups, but it might be safe to turn quickhost back on. Its up to you.

[Psycho]

While the status page says my turn is in, I got more mails with confirmations and more mails saying that I didn't send a valid 2h file, so I can't be sure that the valid file has been accepted.

[PsiSoldier]

Yeah, I got a ton of messages saying revised turns were sent in and finaly one last message saying a valid turn was not found.

[Valerius]

I'm going to keep postponing hosting until llama is able to figure out what's going on. I'd rather wait a little longer than risk having the game host with missing turn files (despite what the server says about them all having arrived). With most nations at war a rollback (or debate about a rollback) is just going to cause problems. And in any case, it seems like even if I tried a force host the server might not accept it.

[PsiSoldier]

I'm wondering if I should try once more to submit the turn with it having said that I sent an invalid turn or what.

I'm guessing I should just leave well enough alone and wait it out though I know the turn I sent was not invalid and I seriously doubt it would help lammaserver any for people to bombard it with more turn files.

[Valerius]

I agree; let's wait until we hear from llama that things are ok. At that point we may all want to resubmit our turns. You and Psycho certainly should, maybe AOE as well since though his turn went through I think the server was already having problems at that point. I guess yandav and I can also resubmit just to play it safe.

[AreaOfEffect]

To be honest, I seen this behavior form the llamaserver before. I'm confident my turn has been received properly.

[Psycho]

Heh, now that llamaserver is working again, my internet connection broke. I reported it this morning, so I hope they manage to fix it today, otherwise I won't have internet over the weekend. I can send my turn tomorrow from a friend's computer, if they don't fix it today. I'll post here when my turn is in.

[Valerius]

Fair enough, AOE. I think yandav and I are ok as well.

Psycho and Psi, I'll wait for your confirmations that you've resubmitted your turns before forcing hosting.

[Psycho]

I sent mine.

[PsiSoldier]

Yeah sorry, I should have posted here last night. I sent in my turn again last night when I got the message that llamaserver was back up and running and I got one single Revised turn received message so it looked good to me.

[Valerius]

Ok, hosting has been forced and quickhost turned on again.

[AreaOfEffect]

I want the turns to be extended by another 24 hours from now on. I just haven't been putting forth the same effort ever since my life became more hectic this month.

[Valerius]

I postponed hosting for this turn but I'm not going to change the hosting interval to 72 hours. It was clearly stated in the game settings that we would stay with 48 hour hosting.

[AreaOfEffect]

Understood. Thanks.

[PsiSoldier]

Ok... I'm having a problem here.. I upgraded to windows 7 and the stupid ****ing operating system went and made my Dominions3 folder and all its sub folders read only. So now when I try to save my game Dom3 crashes.

I've tried going to folder properties and unchecking the read only box and it acts like it does it but then as soon as I close the properties tab it goes right back to read only. I read Microsofts support page for this and it said to use cmd and give it the attrib -r in dos but it just tells me access denied when I try to do it that way.

I have emailed Microsoft to chew them out and find out how the **** to fix it but until then It doesnt look like I'll be able to sumbit my turn unless I find out some magical way to fix the problem on my own. I did install Windows 7 on a new harddrive and kept xp on an old one but that would be a pain to have to go back and do it again from the old hard drive.

I dont suppose anyone has heard of anyone else having this same problem and how to fix it have they????

Anyways its possible I may need an extension for this turn (Which Ive already done 3 ****ing times, once the first time before I found out it was read only, once more after I thought I changed it from read only, then once more when I changed it closed the properties box then opened it again and did not see read only checked then did the turn, got the error and looked back again to see the stupid box checked) So I'm kind of tired of doing the turn right now even if I can load xp to do it...

[Psycho]

Try this: http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/12311-all-files-xp-read-only-seriously.html
Look at the fifth post.

[Valerius]

I postponed hosting. In addition to Psi's problem I'm concerned that C'tis' turn isn't in since yandav is usually the first one to submit his turn.

[PsiSoldier]

Hmmm.. Ive tried that and still when I go to change it to take off read only it shows the box checked again as read only when I close the properties tab and open it up again..

However I was able to do the turn. I opened the box and unchecked read only and did the turn without closing the properties box... I dont know if that is why I was able to finally do the turn or what but it worked at least.

[yandav]

Sorry guys, I'm going to have some connections problem until the 5 november at least. I'd be happy if you can wait for me but I won't be upset if you don't. ;)

[Valerius]

Hmm, since yandav isn't certain when he'll have connectivity again and is ok with us proceeding, I'm going to try to find a temp sub. If that doesn't work out we can either wait until the 5th and see where things stand or set C'tis AI. Since I'm at war with C'tis beginning this turn and am not unbiased I'd appreciate feedback from everyone as to a course of action.

[Graeme Dice]

I think that if you are having problems with read only access in Windows 7, you need to move the game files out of the Program Files directory. That's what I've heard in other places at least.

[PsiSoldier]

I think that if you are having problems with read only access in Windows 7, you need to move the game files out of the Program Files directory. That's what I've heard in other places at least.

Its already not in program files its in E:\Dominions3 :confused:

[Psycho]

I am fine with waiting until the fifth if the sub cannot be found. I think it's worse to lose a player than to wait a little longer.

Of course, it would be even better if yandav could send his turn from work/school/friend's/cyber cafe/anywhere really.

[Valerius]

I am fine with waiting until the fifth if the sub cannot be found. I think it's worse to lose a player than to wait a little longer.

Of course, it would be even better if yandav could send his turn from work/school/friend's/cyber cafe/anywhere really.

It looks like he managed to do just this. For the next week I'll extend hosting as needed if C'tis' turn isn't in yet.

[Psycho]

Can I have 6 extra hours for this turn? Thanks.

[Valerius]

Sure; hosting has been postponed until 23:05 GMT Tuesday.

[Psycho]

The delay didn't go through. The llamaserver says hosting time is 17:05 GMT Tuesday (I could swear I saw yesterday that the hosting time was changed). Anyway, as it stands, I will still be at work when it hosts. Val, I hope you see this in time and delay the game.

[Valerius]

I also thought it said 23:05 hosting time... I just submitted another delay request and I'll check to make sure that takes.

Edit: ok, it now says 23:05 hosting.

[Valerius]

With an hour to go I don't yet see a turn from C'tis so, as previously discussed, I will postpone hosting.

[Psycho]

Eriu, congrats on taking Ctis capital. I am sorry I missed seeing the battle, my scout just died of disease.

[yandav]

Okay, I'm back ! :) ... but it seems that it won't be for a long time :hurt:.
I should have spent more time scripting my orders :(

[Psycho]

Can I have a new delay? I am not sure how much I'll need, say 12 hours for the start.

[Valerius]

Good to have you back, yandav. Psycho, hosting has been delayed 12 hours.

[Psycho]

Llamaserver just returned the hosting time to the old one. What is going on?

[Valerius]

Psycho, what happened? Did you submit your turn and the game hosted? Or did the game remove the 12 hours I added and you quickly sent in your turn so you wouldn't stale? I know it took the change - 15 minutes after postponing hosting I checked the site and it had the new hosting time. Did it then revert to the original time?

[Psycho]

The game removed the 12 hours and I sent my turn so I wouldn't stale, but with many completely wrong orders unfortunately. The new time stood there for a while and it changed back some 10-15 minutes before the old hosting time. I was refreshing the llamaserver page every 5 mins due to boredom and saw when it happened. I immediately posted here, but you weren't around, unfortunately. I am sure the same thing happened the last time you postponed as well. I know I saw the new time on llamaserver then as well.

[Psycho]

Would people object a rollback? I am not asking for one yet, but I am considering it.

[Valerius]

Ok, I posted in a thread about this issue. Maybe llama can shed some light on the matter.

[Psycho]

Mictlan's turn is not in, I think we need a delay.

[Valerius]

Yeah, I was about to postpone hosting. I take it you just sent yours in? The llamaserver indicates two turns still missing.

[Psycho]

I didn't. I am about to.

[Valerius]

Ok, hosting postponed 12 hours. Let's see if it takes.

[Psycho]

Can you also turn the quickhost off? I changed my turn according to the assumption that Mictlan will stale (that is, I didn't attack some provinces I wanted to). I would like to change that when I know his turn is in.

[Valerius]

Sure, quickhost is now off. And the llamaserver just updated with the new hosting time.

[Psycho]

Let's hope it doesn't change back.

[Valerius]

I think we're ok. At least the original hosting time passed without the time resetting.

[AreaOfEffect]

I've been having problems accessing my own computer because the needs of some of my house guests. Though I should be able to finish my turn well before the current deadline. I'll get to work on it right away.

Edit: Also, I'm declaring war against Vanheim or something. NAP in effect and all that Jazz. Good luck.

[Valerius]

Edit: Also, I'm declaring war against Vanheim or something. NAP in effect and all that Jazz. Good luck.

I didn't see that coming. :shock: Just so we're on the same page: I think we have a NAP 3 so we can issue attack orders on turn 54, with the battles taking place on turn 55.

Now I'm glad quickhost is off for this turn since I'll need to make some changes. After this turns hosts I'll turn quickhost on again.

[Psycho]

Also, I'm declaring war against Vanheim or something. NAP in effect and all that Jazz. Good luck.

Likewise.

I am good to go, you can force host when you're ready.

[Valerius]

Also, I'm declaring war against Vanheim or something. NAP in effect and all that Jazz. Good luck.

Likewise.

I am good to go, you can force host when you're ready.

Given the sudden turns of events I think I'll now need the extra time to redo my turn. :)

[Valerius]

AOE, just a clarification. Apparently Psycho and I have a different interpretation of a NAP 3. We are going with his interpretation and since the two of you will probably want to have your NAPs end the same turn that means you and I can issue attack orders against each other on turn 55, with the battles taking place on turn 56.

[AreaOfEffect]

Declaration issued on turn 52.
52 + 3 = 55
Turn 55 is when I can issue attack orders.

[Psycho]

Ouch, what bad luck for Ctis in that battle. If only he had someone to cast storm (or at least some bodyguards with marshmasters who cast those BEs).

[Valerius]

Yeah, I did get lucky there. I wouldn't have stormed those forts without seeing what was inside if I didn't feel rushed by the fact that in a couple of turns I think my luck in this game will run out.

BTW, Pan's poaching of C'tis' lands has been noted. :mad:

[Psycho]

Those lands have been poached from Pyth, when I was fighting him. They should have belonged to me in the first place. I didn't mind Ctis holding them temporarily too much, but I wouldn't like to see them in your hands as a base of operations against me.

[Valerius]

I'll need extra time for this turn so I've postponed hosting until 5:25 GMT Monday.

[Valerius]

Sorry, but I'm going to need to postpone hosting once again. I thought I'd be able to get to the turn this weekend but that now looks unlikely. With war beginning it obviously would not be a good time for me to just submit a rushed turn. New hosting time is 9:00 GMT Tuesday.

[Psycho]

Val must be preparing a devastating move to crush all opposition on the first turn of war. :)

[AreaOfEffect]

I'm sure it will be glorious, particularly since the one Ice Devil of his that I was tracking has given me the slip.


Now, as Valerius already knows, I'm looking for a sub for this game. A small part of it is that I've had less time to work out my turns, yet this hasn't been too much of an issue. At the very worse it's caused me lose focus on several key turns. Yet, that isn't really the reason for my departure.

Valerius, you've made a really good game and I really enjoyed it for a while. Psycho, your name is very fitting. Ever since I started my war against Pangaea, I've been pelted with numerous private messages. Multiple times a turn I've had to read about how the war would only be a waste of resources and about how other nations will be getting ahead of us. The constant whining has, to date, been the worse attack in a game of dominions that I have yet had to suffer. I'd hate to say it, but I was brow beaten into making peace. Knowing full well that Pangaea was actually in a good position and rightfully should be a target, I still decided to give up in hopes that he'd shut up. However, this has not been the case and this particular game has no way of being fun for me anymore. I see no reason to play a game that isn't fun. I'm not doing what I think should actually be done and I've made a promise to continue that course of action. I greatly apologize for this and I'll do what I can to find someone willing to play as Mictlan.

Thanks and good luck.

[Psycho]

Psycho, your name is very fitting. Ever since I started my war against Pangaea, I've been pelted with numerous private messages. Multiple times a turn I've had to read about how the war would only be a waste of resources and about how other nations will be getting ahead of us. The constant whining has, to date, been the worse attack in a game of dominions that I have yet had to suffer. I'd hate to say it, but I was brow beaten into making peace. Knowing full well that Pangaea was actually in a good position and rightfully should be a target, I still decided to give up in hopes that he'd shut up. However, this has not been the case and this particular game has no way of being fun for me anymore. I see no reason to play a game that isn't fun. I'm not doing what I think should actually be done and I've made a promise to continue that course of action. I greatly apologize for this and I'll do what I can to find someone willing to play as Mictlan.

Well, that's not quite true. I've made three attempts at making peace with you - once when you declared, then after I defeated your sieging army and finally the third time when you accepted. I have started spamming you with PMs lately trying to get you to coordinate against Vanheim, but mostly ran into a wall of silence, which was very odd. It seems that the no-diplomacy type of game would be more fitting for you. I am used to doing a lot of PM communication in games and nobody complained before (I sent a lot more PMs to Van then to you). I hope I haven't been boring other people too.

Still, hasn't everything I said turned out exactly that way? We've had a stalemate for 15 turns, which ended in me gaining one castle and you gaining nothing. In the meantime, Vanheim grew double in power and gobbled up Ctis with the help of Eriu.

I am sorry about the way you feel about this game. If you wanted to continue our war, then why didn't you? I can't understand this. I thought you realized, like I did, that Vanheim was running away with the game.

Finally, I want to say that you've been a very good opponent and that you inspired me to want to play Ma Mictlan and I hope to try a similar build in my next MA game. Again, sorry I ruined this game for you.

[Valerius]

AOE, sorry to see you go. Thanks for playing. I thought you and Psycho were very well matched. To be honest I thought your war might go on a long time ... and I was hoping it would. :) If one of you had wrapped things up quickly I thought I'd be in trouble, even with GoNB. Of course both of you allying against me was even worse. ;)

I can't argue with the logic of the two of you making peace and attacking me. The only arguments I can make against it are that Van is not a late game power and, even more so, I am not a good late game player since my hatred of micromanagement overcomes my desire to win. I will also say that I agree with AOE that Pan is a real threat and taking me out may only mean that he is handed the crown.

Oh one other thing, AOE. I don't know as much about your strategies as Psycho but I know you were using an E9 bless. I really liked that and don't think I've seen it before on Mictlan. It turned out to have a nice synergy with those indie pegasus riders.

AOE has already posted in the "games seeking a sub" thread but I'll add a post to the forum as well.

Psycho, I'm afraid I don't have any great plans for the war. I just have had no time the past few days to work on my turn. I'm too tired to work on it now but tomorrow I'll try come up with something to slow you down. :)

[Valerius]

There was no turn from Mictlan a half hour before hosting so I postponed hosting. Will also bump the sub thread.

[SciencePro]

I just responded in the sub thread that I would like to take AOE's place

[Valerius]

Welcome to the game SciencePro! Please PM me your e-mail and I'll make the change.

[Valerius]

I just realized AOE sent in a turn a few hours ago and the game hosted. SciencePro, the only real difference between the current game situation and my sub post is that the war is two turns old and Mictlan has sent squads of pegasus riders and small forces of his sacreds to raid me and I've been trying to fend them off. Pan has been very lazy and not attacked me at all. In fact, Pan may be planning on betraying Mictlan so if you'd like to rethink your alliance with him Van would be interested in talking. :)

[Psycho]

I just realized AOE sent in a turn a few hours ago and the game hosted. SciencePro, the only real difference between the current game situation and my sub post is that the war is two turns old and Mictlan has sent squads of pegasus riders and small forces of his sacreds to raid me and I've been trying to fend them off. Pan has been very lazy and not attacked me at all. In fact, Pan may be planning on betraying Mictlan so if you'd like to rethink your alliance with him Van would be interested in talking. :)

Lol, nice try. :D

[AreaOfEffect]

Thanks for subbing in SciencePro. My apologies to everyone for my departure. A special apology to Psycho. In the end I had a lot less time to conduct my turns and the additional diplomacy made it much more stressful. Again, the game wasn't un-fun because of anything you did in particular, it was un-fun because I promised not to pursue the course of action I wanted most to do.

Good luck to you all.

[Psycho]

I still haven't heard from SciencePro. Can we have a 24h delay.

[Valerius]

He PM'd me that he'd have a chance to complete his turn today. But I went ahead and postponed hosting by 24 hours.

[SciencePro]

Yes thanks for the extension. I said I didn't need it, but it actually turns out to be a good since I want to PM with everyone first before I decide what to do.

I will defiantly have my turn in by the new deadline. After that, you can expect me to play pretty fast.

[Psycho]

Can I have another 24h extension?

[Valerius]

Sure; hosting has been postponed 24 hours.

[Psycho]

The new Mictlan administration broke the treaty they had with Pangaea. For this they will be punished.

Val, would you give me peace, so I can continue where I stopped 5 turns ago? I know it might be much to ask, but in a way it can be seen as I was double-crossed and set back 5 turns. You would be a great sport. :)

[Valerius]

I'm afraid I can't do that. I wouldn't feel right sticking Mictlan with the war after us making peace gave me a fighting chance. And if you did beat him I'd only have to fight you then - but you'd have 50% more gem income than me and almost equal gold income (even with me having GoNB). Sorry, but I think this is my best chance to beat you - and I by no means think that's a certain thing since I've seen you beat worse odds before. Looking at the graphs, the only advantage I have over you is gold income; so it's like a sporting event where the lesser player gets an advantage to give them a chance against the better player. :)

[Psycho]

Heh, you are stronger than us combined, but I understand. I had to try. ;) Bah, if only this game somehow rolled five turns back. :) Well, I certainly won't give up. I know I don't have any chances now, but I am going to give you a good fight.

Hey, Eriu, would you come to my aid? You can answer by PM if you prefer.

[SciencePro]

The new Mictlan administration broke the treaty they had with Pangaea. For this they will be punished.

Do not believe the lies of the horny goat-men!

They are known practitioners of the abominations of blood hunting, human sacrifice, and blood magic! And God knows every deviant sexual abomination ever dreamed of. They are inventing new sexual abominations as we speak!

Fellow Humans (and Lizards and Sidhes), the time has come to end the frolicking of this large-penis'd adversary. If Pangea rules the land then some of our women will be sacrificed and the rest will be thrown to the horny goat-men. Even the lizard-girls will be nothing but playthings in an orgy of goat-sex. Lock up your daughters, sisters and mothers and grab your axe. It's time for war!

[Valerius]

Heh, you are stronger than us combined, but I understand. I had to try. ;) Bah, if only this game somehow rolled five turns back. :) Well, I certainly won't give up. I know I don't have any chances now, but I am going to give you a good fight.

I know I'm not stronger than the two of you combined ... but I'm definitely not going to give any hints as to my weak areas. :)

I know you won't give up and I think there's a decent chance we'll end up stalemating, like you and Mictlan did. All I know is I've got to keep my dominion strong so that VQ of yours and all your vampires don't have free rein to attack my territories.

[Psycho]

I know you won't give up and I think there's a decent chance we'll end up stalemating, like you and Mictlan did. All I know is I've got to keep my dominion strong so that VQ of yours and all your vampires don't have free rein to attack my territories.

Yep, dominion is your way to go. You've got quite a few vampires of your own, as well.

BTW, I know this turn has been prolonged a lot, but I didn't even start doing it, waiting for diplomatic situation to crystallize. I'll try to finish it tonight, but if I don't manage, it would be nice to get about 4 hours delay.

[Valerius]

I'm in the same situation as you. Once the llamaserver is back to normal I'll put through the delay. Apologies to yandav and Psi for the delays while all this has occurred.

[Valerius]

Just so everyone is on the same page... Van and Pan are obviously currently at war. Van and Mictlan are now at peace. Are Mictlan and Pan at war immediately? Are they dissolving their NAP (which I assume they have) and will be at war soon? Just want to find out where everyone stands.

[SciencePro]

Well I wasn't planning to attack anyone at the moment. But I figured when Psycho started saying I was going to be punished and that he wants help from the other two nations that he was planning to attack me. If I misunderstood then fine I don't mind staying neutral for the time being.

Anyway I was hoping we wouldn't have to hash all this out on the forum but it's inevitable now. Pyscho has sent me about a dozen PM’s in the last few days. In the first few he just started ordering me around. Then, when I tell him I plan to stay neutral for the time being he suddenly starts to claim that I have inherited a promise to “continue attacking vanheim until they are defeated.” He starts talking about how he gave up a castle and all these provinces in order to secure this promise.

I’m skeptical of what he is saying for a couple reasons:
1) AoE’s forum post that stated he was browbeat into making peace and agreed just to get psycho to “shut up”
2) The fact that Psycho didn’t mention this alleged promise until like his 5th or 6th message.

I’m also skeptical because what he is saying doesn’t seem consistent with the history in the score graph. So I ask him to state exactly what Mictlan received in exchange for this promise and when it was given.

He said that the deal was made “exactly” five turns ago and:
You still haven't explained what exactly AOE/I got in exchange for this ill-advised promise he allegedly made. Exactly what castle or provinces did he receive?
Yes, I have. The castle in Deadlands(115) and all your provinces south of it.


Okay so that would be six provinces, 115, 106, 109, 97, 96, and 86. Not counting the three provinces I raided from vanheim (which I didn’t include above either), I have 24 provinces now. Five turns ago I had 26. In fact I’ve had 26 for pretty much the entire game except a short time when I held about 6 of pan’s current provinces. So I started with 26 and then Psycho gave me 6 more and I ended up with a total of 24????

So was he just lying or does he really believe that it’s possible to “give” someone provinces they already have and have had for a long time? Regardless, it seems to me that the only thing AoE got out of this alleged deal is what he said in his forum post, for Pyscho to stop browbeating him and to “shut up.”

Well, I return that to you. You have my blessing to browbeat as much as you want.

[Psycho]

Just so everyone is on the same page... Van and Pan are obviously currently at war. Van and Mictlan are now at peace. Are Mictlan and Pan at war immediately? Are they dissolving their NAP (which I assume they have) and will be at war soon? Just want to find out where everyone stands.

Messages regarding Pan-Mictlan relations will be sent directly to Mictlan administration. They are free to post them here if they want.