Research level available to indy mages

[sansanjuan]

Is it a set level with set school(s) or turn based?
Has anyone seen indy mages commune?
-ssj

[MaxWilson]

It's a set spell list which has nothing to do with research levels. I don't know precisely what's on there but lch surely does. I have never seen indies commune.

-Max

[Fate]

As far as I know it is a set selection of spells (not in any kind of research grouping).

As evidence I point to the fact (A) that all indie spells can be seen at any point in the game and (B) that in a recent patch note 'Indep grimoire slightly improved.' (that is from July 27th on the dominions progress page, here (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html).

I am not sure if this is denoted by name or ID (in case you wanted to mod the spells), but I would guess ID (just on a hunch and a little hope).

[Sombre]

It's actually worse for modders if it's based on ID imo.

[sansanjuan]

Thanks all for the feedback.

That would be interesting if Dom3 used a turn based research level (run much like an unscripted player mage). Bloodhenge Druids wouldn't be limited to bleed and barkskin. Add to single player fun and make late game more interesting for MP.
-ssj

[chrispedersen]

Bloodhenge druids aren't limited to bleed and barkskin....

[Sombre]

Actually they mostly seem to cast agony on me.

[Tolkien]

They keep casting Rain of Blood on me. :\

[Fate]

It's actually worse for modders if it's based on ID imo.

There are currently no mod commands that change the independent spell list. The only way to change them is by modifying current spells. If the spell list is set by by name then the names could not be changed.

#SelectSpell keeps the same ID, therefore I would hope the spells are selected by ID, not name.

None of this has been tested though. I think I have seen the independent AI use added spells, so this discussion could be moot.

[Sombre]

True, but no-one has shown any interest in modding the indy spell list, while numerous modders have used the copy and overwrite existing spells to create custom #onebattlespells method. If the indy spell list uses IDs then the overwritten #onebattlespell targets will end up being cast by indies.

I'm assuming you're familiar with the #onebattlespell copy and overwrite workaround here, if you aren't I can elaborate. It's evident in mods like Bretonnia and Ogre Kingdoms.

[Adept]

I've long thought that the indie mages spell lists are way too low.

Fire 3 ones don't even do fireball for crying out loud :(

[sansanjuan]

I've long thought that the indie mages spell lists are way too low.

Fire 3 ones don't even do fireball for crying out loud :(

That Satina witch with the crazy levels (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43733) got me thinking about that too. Also imagine indy mages that communed and worked off a turn derived spell research formula.... could add some spice. Let them act just like unscripted player mages with whatever spells are available. Indies could get very interesting late game.

-ssj

[Burnsaber]

Got me thinking about that too. Also imagine indy mages that communed and worked off a turn derived spell research formula.... could add some spice. Let them act just like unscripted player mages with whatever spells are available. Indies could get very interesting late game.

-ssj

Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen in the near future (or at all). You could try modding a spell for each path of magic for the independents to use, using the "do a copy and modify the original" trick. It would be pretty easy to do and there seems to be some demand for it (at least I'd like to see better indy spellcasters)*.

It's not tested, but it might be possible to make a spell that summons animals in combat, like the "Summon Animals" ritual in the base game. That would be a nice feature for indy mages to cast.

To make it simple the trick works like this. Indy shamans love to cast Vine Arrow, so it's on indy spell list. First you make a modded copy of the "Vine Arrow" spell (Let's call it "Vine Arrow Copy"). Now you have two Vine Arrow spells in the game. Then you modify the original "Vine Arrow" spell into a spell, that for example summons vinemen and make that spell unresearchable. The result is that nature indies summon vinemen in combat and the players can use the "Vine Arrow Copy" spell whenever they want.

*= I'd do it myself, but I *really* can't take up additional projects. If someone takes up this project, I'll show my support and help with the code, if necessary.

[MaxWilson]

Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen in the near future (or at all). You could try modding a spell for each path of magic for the independents to use, using the "do a copy and modify the original" trick. It would be pretty easy to do and there seems to be some demand for it (at least I'd like to see better indy spellcasters)*.

Perhaps this could be approached from a map angle (vis-as-vis mod angle). I *think* map editing lets you set up certain nations with initial province ownership. Use one of the blank nations without units, and use a tool like SemiRandom to assign quasi-indy defenders to all or many otherwise-unassigned provinces. Give the blank nation an immobile pretender with a research bonus of 9000 or something, and/or a bunch of immobile sage units with similarly huge research bonuses. Yes, that means indies would produce more units over time until they max out on upkeep, and they would attack your provinces actively--but can you really tell me that that isn't more realistic (and fun) indy behavior?

-Max

[Burnsaber]

Perhaps this could be approached from a map angle (vis-as-vis mod angle). I *think* map editing lets you set up certain nations with initial province ownership. Use one of the blank nations without units, and use a tool like SemiRandom to assign quasi-indy defenders to all or many otherwise-unassigned provinces. Give the blank nation an immobile pretender with a research bonus of 9000 or something, and/or a bunch of immobile sage units with similarly huge research bonuses. Yes, that means indies would produce more units over time until they max out on upkeep, and they would attack your provinces actively--but can you really tell me that that isn't more realistic (and fun) indy behavior?

-Max

They also would declare war against you in turn 1 (because they have like 100 times more troops than you) and assault your capital with all the indies bordering your capital on turn 2/3. :shock:

[Tolkien]

Set it to defensive AI then. :p

[MaxWilson]

They also would declare war against you in turn 1 (because they have like 100 times more troops than you) and assault your capital with all the indies bordering your capital on turn 2/3. :shock:

I think you'd want to set the initial pop level to be slightly weaker than typical indy provinces because they DO have the capability to build more. Still, yes, they could mob you early on. On the other hand, that weakens their provinces and makes it easier to expand.

-Max