Viscious Circle 3

[GrudgeBringer]

This will be the official thread for the restart.

We will wait until we see how many any we get and who before we decide on a map and if we use the same rules.

If you have an opinion on the 7 turn starting Nap, PLEASE PM me with it so we don't have a debate or intimidate those that wanted it the first time.

I intend to use the Standards and Streamers mod for me personally as its easier to see (for me), You may use it or not as Squirrelliod has pointed out it is an individual preference)

Frozen Lama will set up the game and announce winning conditions. He and I (GrudgeBringer), will Admin so we always have someone to get ahold of.

Map TBD
7 turn starting Nap TBD
Mod Standard and Streamers (personal choice)
CBM 1.5

Nations...sign in Please:up:

GrudgeBringer Arco
Frozen Lama Tir
Trumanator Pan
Mule Warrior Ryleh
JR77 Fomoria
Eldanesh Ermor
Lihaassa Ulm
Kietsensei Hinnom
lainuki Marverni
aaminoff Helheim
Sir Jope Atlantis
Sqirrelloid Caelum
Ishamoridan Mictlan
Cerain Vanheim
Mscfish TC
Shard Sauro
Fakey Mcfake Niefleheim
Viccio Yomi

OK...We have 18 and are ready to go when Lama is. We need a BIG wrap around map and unless we use Standards and Streamers Alexander or Asia twist (due to the coloring) will be very hard on some (me especially, as I am color blind and have some problems on those type of maps) though with S&S it is tolerable.

Since this is basically a Restart, all rules will stay in effect (yes, the 7 turn forced Nap is included)

We had 1 Nation change...Cerain went from C'tis to Vanheim.

Frozen Lama will decide the Victory conditions and set the game up, get your Pretenders ready and we will get underway ASAP.
Ok game is up!

here's the deal: its called ViciousCircle3, so put that in the subject line when you send your pretenders in.


map is asia twist get it here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=649938

we are using CBM 1.5, and i decided to make GB happy and use Streamers and standerds. get that here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989


there is a 7 turn NAP again. if you have questions re that, PM me or GB.

i decided that the best way to make sure i don't f**k te game up again would be to not put a vp condition on, but since graphs are on, its easy to see who's winning, the victory will be by concession, (which is how most games end anyways)

GB- could you copy this into the origional post please?

Send in your pretenders, and lets see if we can get this started in the next couple days

BTW...DO NOT PUT A PASSWORD ON YOUR NATION OR PRETENDER

[GrudgeBringer]

GrudgeBringer Arco

[Frozen Lama]

Tir here

i will still admin.

remember, if we use Asia Twist, (or oraina or most other maps) we will need at least 1 more, probably 2 more water nations.

[Trumanator]

Pan here once again, ready to inflict TTD on all comers! :D

I vote for Asia Twist. You already know my stance re: starting NAP.

As Asia Twist has set starts and is slightly bigger, it would probably be wise to try and recruit one or two more players so the map is full and noone gets extra provs.

[Mule Warrior]

I'm in.

R'Lyeh is my first choice.

If I'm the only water nation, I'll play with (in order or preference): Yomi - Ermor - Abysia.

[JR77]

Fomoria

[Eldanesh]

Ermor

[Lihaässä]

Ulm

[Kietsensei]

Hinnom, led by the wise and pacific Rephaims is back ;)

[iainuki]

Marverni again. Just make sure it's ViciousCircle3 on Llamaserver. No strong feelings about the map, I looked at the options and I haven't played them enough to form an opinion.

[viccio]

if it possible i will play with Hellheim

[aaminoff]

I was Helheim in VC2. I would prefer to keep that, but I could also go out on a limb and do a water nation in order to let the map work. I leave it up to GB and Lama.

[SirJope]

Atlantis if possible. Would be mine first multiplay :)

[Frozen Lama]

aaminoff of course gets priority for helheim unless he wants to do Oceania.

[Squirrelloid]

Caelum again. I'd like to actually play that to midgame... (Also, I'd like to not start immediately next to Hinnom - well, unless Hinnom is amenable to another mutual non-aggression treaty =) ).

[Ishamoridin]

I'm still in as Mictlan

[Juffos]

If I am allowed to join, I would like to try my luck with Sauromatia.

[Trumanator]

No offense Juffos, but you are way too good to be in this game as Sauro IMHO. If you wanted to take something that isn't a powerhouse that would be one thing, but Sauro is pretty up there on the power curve.

[mscfish]

TC
mscfish
And i vote the map for asia twist

[viccio]

I was Helheim in VC2. I would prefer to keep that, but I could also go out on a limb and do a water nation in order to let the map work. I leave it up to GB and Lama.

Sorry, i don't understand the situation, Hellheim it's your nation, i take (and try) Yomi (if possible)

[Cerain]

I'll change to vanheim.

[mscfish]

Hey , GB
Why my TC isn't there ?
You have missed me.
:)

[Juffos]

My C'tis isn't there either :)

[shard]

<- still Sauromatia

however I just signed up for another EA game so I will in all likelihood have to drop one. Difference being that one has banned Hinnom though

When is the proposed restart?

[Kietsensei]

By the way I would like to suggest that we turn graph off. It will make the game more interesting and make you use more scouts to gather intel.

[Squirrelloid]

Actually, graphs off makes the game less interesting because you have no idea what's going on far away. And getting scouts to the far side of the map is a pain in the ***. It leads to someone running away with a victory because half the players have no idea how powerful he is.

Graphs off works in small (<=8 players) games but not in massive games because the scouting burden becomes too large.

[Lihaässä]

BTW. I give my vote to Asia Twist, it looks good.

[chrispedersen]

Fakey is out of town; I was going to sub for him in Vicious 2.
Can you please reserve Niefle for him?

I feel sure he will return soon to claim it himself.

[Frozen Lama]

the start time will be tomorrow night. (west coast time for me)

GB should update the post soon.

what me and GB were thinking, is that this is really more of a "restart" than a new game, so we'd like to keep similar settings, unless theirs a huge backlash.

chrisp- yes, he has Niefel

[GrudgeBringer]

I was waiting until you guys replied on the forum before adding you to make sure you where still interested.

I will get you all on here ASAP (that means after my Nap):p

[Squirrelloid]

Do we need to resubmit pretenders? Or are our old ones still in the system and can be reused?

[Frozen Lama]

AFAIK, we will need to resubmit

[chrispedersen]

the start time will be tomorrow night. (west coast time for me)

GB should update the post soon.

what me and GB were thinking, is that this is really more of a "restart" than a new game, so we'd like to keep similar settings, unless theirs a huge backlash.

chrisp- yes, he has Niefel

I will be going out of town tue/wed so I will not be able to sub for fakey this week...

[Frozen Lama]

Ok game is up!

here's the deal: its called ViciousCircle3, so put that in the subject line when you send your pretenders in.

map is asia twist get it here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=649938

we are using CBM 1.5, and i decided to make GB happy and use Streamers and standerds. get that here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989


there is a 7 turn NAP again. if you have questions re that, PM me or GB.

i decided that the best way to make sure i don't f**k te game up again would be to not put a vp condition on, but since graphs are on, its easy to see who's winning, the victory will be by concession, (which is how most games end anyways)

GB- could you copy this into the origional post please?

send in your pretenders, and lets see if we can get this started in the next couple days

[Cerain]

Frozen Lama, we have to download and install like a mod this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989 ? (Streamers and standerds)

[Eldanesh]

My pretender already had a password on it do I need to change it?

[GrudgeBringer]

YES..NO PASSWORDS...IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO YOUR cOMP OR LIFE GETS IN THE WAY WE HAVE TO HAVE A WAY TO GET IN THERE AND EITHER LET SOMEONE SUB OR SET TO AI. (sorry for yelling, just in a hurry and no time to change it).:up:

[iainuki]

we are using CBM 1.5, and i decided to make GB happy and use Streamers and standerds. get that here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989

Streamers and Standards is a cosmetic mod, will the game complain if we aren't using it?

[Squirrelloid]

we are using CBM 1.5, and i decided to make GB happy and use Streamers and standerds. get that here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989

Streamers and Standards is a cosmetic mod, will the game complain if we aren't using it?

No. It does absolutely nothing server-side. Its a skin, effectively.

[Frozen Lama]

Lets get those pretenders in please! halfway there so far. i'd like to get us started before the weekend

[Fakeymcfake]

I'll get my pretender in by thursday, just got back online (damn shoddy internet providers) and need to take care of some pressing paperwork before I do anything else.

[iainuki]

We have a problem. Is LlamaBanners set as part of the game settings? I am playing in another game where that mod was set (Aquamarine), and I could not load the first turn file without LlamaBanners. Squirrelloid suggested that in Water Total War, where LlamaBanners was not included as part of the game settings themselves, players who wanted to use it could. If there is a workaround for the situation where LlamaBanners is include as part of the settings, I can use that, but I'm not aware of it. Otherwise, I see two options: restart the game (players would have to reupload their pretenders) or figure out a way to withdraw without disrupting the game. I don't like this situation, but I don't see any other way to handle it.

[Squirrelloid]

Um, i make more detailed comments in the Aquamarine thread, but the gist is I'm incorrectly recalling where the discussion was had - its not the WTW game thread (i was certain it was...). But I know I read that discussion somewhere. Logical candidates include Noobs vs. Vets - but that thread is massive.

[Frozen Lama]

well squirrelloid, i'm trusting you on this one, that people don't need it enabled.
of course iainuki the easiest solution would be that IF you need it, just download it.

[iainuki]

of course iainuki the easiest solution would be that IF you need it, just download it.

I think you're somewhat missing my point. I don't like LlamaBanners and if I'd known the game was going to require it, I wouldn't have signed up in the first place. As it was, I believed it wasn't going to be a problem. If the game starts with the current settings, it will be a problem. I signed up for a game without LlamaBanners, or so I thought, only to have the terms of the agreement changed without consulting me (admittedly, because of technical issues no one seemed to understand right). Thus, why I'm requesting it that the game either be set up so that I can play without it (as the earlier discussion promised, but failed to deliver, though not because of anyone's fault) or that we reach some mutually-satisfactory way for me to withdraw.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK IF you are in Aquamarine....

The first turn just posted and we DO (I am also in Aquamarine) have what you call llama-banners in that game as I have it turned on and they show up for me.

IF you got the turn and everything is OK and you Don't have llama-banners showing (Standards and Streamers to the rest of us)then you SHOULDN'T have any problem with this game as it is set up the same way.

IF you have a problem with both games because you don't want a bigger flag then in the game just say so and we will delete your Pretender in this one as it hasn't started yet (at least I haven't got turn 1).

But I don't think Aquamarine will restart (although I wish they would with my HORREDOUS start) as it took so long to get all the Pretenders in.

So...It may be that you just have to HAVE the mod, not necessarily have it on. So you mght want to give it a shot and D/L it but don't enable it.:up:

[Frozen Lama]

i see what you are saying now. hopefully squirelloid is right, and you don't need it. If not, we shall work on it then.

[Frozen Lama]

Sir Jope has PM'd me and apparently someone else submitted an Atlantis pretender. remember, refer to the origional post by GB to see what nation you have, although it seems that everyone but fakey has sent a pretender. so then- whoever sent in the Atlantis pretender- sorry but Atlantis has been taken.

Sir Jope- see my PM, but i will just delete the current Atlantis pretender, and you can submit yours.

[Frozen Lama]

ok this is getting dumb... who is C'tis? no one is signed up for it. Sir Jope you cna submit your god, but Fakey will have to pm me when he's ready so i can delete C'tis and he can quickly get his guy sent in.

iainuki- according to some of the modders on the IRC, you will need to use llamabanners. there is apparently a way to work around this by modding the llamabanners mod and replacing it with the origional flags, but i am modding incompetant, and thus, i'm sorry but i really can't restart the game again. i'm sorry about this. i realize that it isn't really fair, but in intrest of saving the game, i think we will have to run with it. if your out, i'm sorry. of course if you are ok with sticking it out for a couple turns, i could post in the mods forum, and see if i can figure out how to help you. Gregstrom seemed to know how to do it, but didn't have the tga's available.

[Trumanator]

lol, ninja players are fun...



I vote we gank all of them at the start of the game.

[iainuki]

The first turn just posted and we DO (I am also in Aquamarine) have what you call llama-banners in that game as I have it turned on and they show up for me.

IF you got the turn and everything is OK and you Don't have llama-banners showing (Standards and Streamers to the rest of us)then you SHOULDN'T have any problem with this game as it is set up the same way.

IF you have a problem with both games because you don't want a bigger flag then in the game just say so and we will delete your Pretender in this one as it hasn't started yet (at least I haven't got turn 1).

I call it LlamaBanners because that's the filename :). It's Llama's modified version of the original Streamers and Standards mod (as it's called in-game). I find LlamaBanners makes it harder for me to tell what's going on in the game; it's an aesthetic preference, but a strongly-felt one.

I actually had an old copy of LlamaBanners lying around from a game that I subbed in for Squirrelloid (this was where I first developed my distaste for the mod). I can install that, but when I load the turn file, the mod automatically activates. If I don't have it installed, the game complains that I don't have llamaBanners.dm available.

But I don't think Aquamarine will restart (although I wish they would with my HORREDOUS start) as it took so long to get all the Pretenders in.

So...It may be that you just have to HAVE the mod, not necessarily have it on. So you mght want to give it a shot and D/L it but don't enable it.:up:

iainuki- according to some of the modders on the IRC, you will need to use llamabanners. there is apparently a way to work around this by modding the llamabanners mod and replacing it with the origional flags, but i am modding incompetant, and thus, i'm sorry but i really can't restart the game again. i'm sorry about this. i realize that it isn't really fair, but in intrest of saving the game, i think we will have to run with it. if your out, i'm sorry. of course if you are ok with sticking it out for a couple turns, i could post in the mods forum, and see if i can figure out how to help you. Gregstrom seemed to know how to do it, but didn't have the tga's available.

I had figured out that I need LlamaBanners :/. Obviously, next time, I will verify for myself before agreeing to a given set-up :/.

Thank you very much for talking to the modders for me. I'm going to send a PM to Gregstorm and try to get confirmation that it is or isn't possible, while looking at making the mod myself, before making a final decision, if that is ok.

[Calahan]

If my understanding is correct, if a game is started without llamabanners, anyone who then wants to use that mod during the game can simply copy and paste the info contained in that mod onto the bottom of another mod that is being used. This issue came up during the Cripple Fight game due to there being three different Atlatnis nations in the game.

But this doesn't work as easily in reverse to my knowledge. As in if the game is started with the llamabanners mod enabled, then you will need that mod in order to access the turn files. So if you want a game in which some players want to use llamabanners and some don't, then the best way is to start the game without the llamabanners mod enabled.


Edit: Here is the post/info that players in the Cripple Fight game could use if they wanted to enable llamabanners (even though the llamabanners mod was not active for that game)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=687279&highlight=#post687279

Edit 2: Having just re-read that post, the info there is only for distinguishing between the three Atlantis era nations. But the theory itself should still be sound. I am not a modder myself, but I am sure most of the modders on the forums can tell you what info from the llamabanner mod needs to be copied.

[Frozen Lama]

Calahan your awesome.

iainuki- assuming i understand this right, i'll just remove that mod from the game since it's not started yet. then you'll stay in right?

everyone else- this sounds really confusing, but here's the gist of what's going on. I am removing llamabanners from the required mods. this simply means you do not NEED it to play, but according to Calahan, you CAN still use it.

[Squirrelloid]

If my understanding is correct, if a game is started without llamabanners, anyone who then wants to use that mod during the game can simply copy and paste the info contained in that mod onto the bottom of another mod that is being used. This issue came up during the Cripple Fight game due to there being three different Atlatnis nations in the game.

But this doesn't work as easily in reverse to my knowledge. As in if the game is started with the llamabanners mod enabled, then you will need that mod in order to access the turn files. So if you want a game in which some players want to use llamabanners and some don't, then the best way is to start the game without the llamabanners mod enabled.


Edit: Here is the post/info that players in the Cripple Fight game could use if they wanted to enable llamabanners (even though the llamabanners mod was not active for that game)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=687279&highlight=#post687279

Edit 2: Having just re-read that post, the info there is only for distinguishing between the three Atlantis era nations. But the theory itself should still be sound. I am not a modder myself, but I am sure most of the modders on the forums can tell you what info from the llamabanner mod needs to be copied.

Thank you Calahan, I knew I saw that somewhere.

[Ishamoridin]

alternatively, you could download and use the LlamaBanners, then just delete the data from the mod file.

[Calahan]

Like I said I'm no modder, but the above fix worked in Cripple Fight, so I see no reason it won't work here as well. Burnsaber would be the man to ask on this though for definite confirmation. He's the modding gura I usually turn to.

[Frozen Lama]

Ok, game started!
everyone cross their fingers that nothing is messed up!!!

[iainuki]

If you can just remove the mod, that's easiest. I have hacked the mod for Aquamarine so it should work for ViciousCircle3, too: LlamaServer seems to accept the files with my inert version of the LlamaBanners mod, and testing in a game, the turns seem to pass without any complaints. Of course, I could always run into an unanticipated problem. That is the best I can do right now, so I'll cross my fingers and hope it works.

[Frozen Lama]

i did remove the mod.

it appears that there are no cheating messages, so i think we are good.

[GrudgeBringer]

It shows the next turn is not due till SUNDAY?

Did we do a 48 hr first turn to get everyone in or perhaps the US Holiday?

Just want to make sure what the norm will be once we get past this first turn.:up:

[iainuki]

It's Labor Day in the US on Monday, but I don't know why that wouldn't affect anything.

[Frozen Lama]

llamaserver automatically gives 48h to the first turn. after turn 1 it will be a 24h scheduale again.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thought it was something like that, actually a good idea as I never had thought about the first turn.

We just have Trumanator left when he gets home (Lama go ahead and force host it, you probably owe him one over the years!!!):eek:

[Fakeymcfake]

Man, sorry to do this, but I suddenly have to head back to my parent's place to get paperwork because my damned school screwed up my loan application. If turn 2 hosts soon I should be able to get that in before I leave tomorrow but I won't be able to get back until monday.

I am looking for someone to cover me but I doubt I can get anyone on such short notice.

[Frozen Lama]

let me know before you leave. i'll give you the delay if you need it. RL first Dom second

[Fakeymcfake]

Got burnsaber to cover for me, make sure to switch the emails over. See you guys on monday.

[Lihaässä]

Sorry about the Stale turn.. I'm in Turkey for a vacation and my hotel had problems with the wlan.

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm back if you want to switch the emails over, I'll PM mine to you Lama.

[Trumanator]

Apparently windows Vista doesn't know that there's a savedgames folder in the dominions folder. If we could delay the turn so I can get my damn comp to work that would be helpful.

[GrudgeBringer]

We will put a 24 hour extension for you to work out your Vista problems, Quickhost still on.:up:

[iainuki]

Neighbors of Fomoria: Marverni would like to talk to you and offer you a deal. Please PM or email for more details.

[JR77]

Run along... nothing to see here :angel

IF you are inclined to make a deal with the Marverni, consider contacting Fomoria for a counter-proposal!

[GrudgeBringer]

Viccio, are you checking this thread, or reading your PM's?

[Squirrelloid]

Caelum would like to announce that rumors of our weakness are greatly overstated. The windlords would tell you to ask the Mictlan survivors from the clash of our armies, but there are none, so unfortunately there shall be only rumors. Unless you would take the words of the victors, all of whose sons and daughters returned home.

Now, if you'd excuse us, we have the conquering of a toothless enemy to plan for.

[mscfish]

I am posting with my mobilephone.And i am in the train station.I request a extention for 24 hours.Sorry for this.

[Frozen Lama]

done

[Ishamoridin]

Mictlan wishes to announce that the Caelian threat is soon to be turned. Our only qualifier would be that we are far from their capital, and we may be unable to press the advantage so far as to capture it, so we feel confident that some other will see the opportunity in Caelum's arrogance.

Feathers and Ice cannot hope to hold against good Obsidian and Blood.

[Squirrelloid]

Mictlan wishes to announce that the Caelian threat is soon to be turned. Our only qualifier would be that we are far from their capital, and we may be unable to press the advantage so far as to capture it, so we feel confident that some other will see the opportunity in Caelum's arrogance.

Feathers and Ice cannot hope to hold against good Obsidian and Blood.

Hilarious. Ready to watch another army of yours get reduced to charred cinders then?

Also, that's a lot of money you wasted on PD. Annoying, but hardly going to save you.

[Ishamoridin]

This argument will be settled on the battlefield, fowl. Your cheap tricks can only save you for so long.

[Squirrelloid]

This argument will be settled on the battlefield, fowl. Your cheap tricks can only save you for so long.

That's ok. I also have other 'cheap' tricks.

[shard]

Bah I forgot to send in my turn... dumb dumb dumb me

[JR77]

Now that we reached turn 20, can we switch to 48h host?

[Kietsensei]

I am more inclined to keep 24h until turn 30 as the game doesn't require a lot of micromanagement and thinking at the moment. But of course the majority will decide.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well I'm already straining to get a turn a day done, though that is due to my own life rather than the complexity of the game. However I can see the game, for me at least, soon becoming much more complicated, so I wouldn't be against going to 48 sooner than later.

[Frozen Lama]

well as always, the majority will decide. or at least the mojority that speaks up. if a few more people want 48h, we can do it. of course if people start staling becuase its too fast, i will slow it down for them, but we've had almost zero delays so far, so i'm inclined to stay at 24h for the time being

[aaminoff]

Well, today I need an extension please. Last night my 5 yo daughter managed to create 3 crises in the space of 15 minutes. I think I can get the turn done tonight.

I would be happy with a shift to 48h, but I do not feel strongly about it.

- Alex, Helheim

[Frozen Lama]

you are lucky, i happen to be on right before i leave today. i'll give you a 12h extension.

[mscfish]

Foromia & Hinnom want to eat TC.And Tc will fight back with all our people.Anyone want to give us your hand,we will share our gems income with you.
Foromia's capital is 79,and their blessing is F4/E4/S4/N4.
Hinnom's capital is 57,and their blessing is E4/N4/B6.

[aaminoff]

I'm really sorry to have to do this twice in a row, but could I please have an extension again? I have a teacher conference right after work today, and last night my wife was sick and I had no time at all to do the turn.

- Alex, Helheim

[Lihaässä]

I would also like to slow down the pace to 48h intervals.

[shard]

Seconded

[Frozen Lama]

delayed by 12h for aaminoff, and the hosting intervall will be 48h starting next turn

[Ishamoridin]

Well, unless Caelum's troops suddenly suffer heart attacks and seizures upon entrance to my last fortress, or my lone scout becomes an SC and appears with said fortress, it looks like I'm not long for this game.

My parting comment is this: Look out for Squirreloid, he's a pro ;)

[Squirrelloid]

Ish, a recommendation for the future: as mictlan, build any sacred but Sun Warriors. Seriously. Hordes of Jag Warriors would have been harder to deal with.

[shard]

I'd like to request a 48hr delay; I'm on vacation right now and am sorting out a potential sub.

[Frozen Lama]

done

[Ishamoridin]

The sun warriors were a result of the number of archer indies around me at the start, I normally have hordes of Jags ;)

[Frozen Lama]

I will be travelling without internet acess from Oct 19th-24th. if i'm still alive and worth playing ;) i will have a sub, but i won't be around to grant extensions, but GB or Trumanator can do it.

[aaminoff]

Two words of appreciation here for Cerain, playing Vanheim. Cerain suffered an unlucky incident early on, but rather than giving up put some thought and effort into both strategic moves and tactical battle placement, and fought multiple opponents to a standstill for a while. So I salute Cerain as a worthy opponent, and hope we will end up on the same side in another Dom3 game.

- Alex, Helheim

[GrudgeBringer]

Agreed,

You fought long, hard, and well Cerain.

Well done sir!!

[shard]

i'll be flying across the pacific today - i'd like to request a 48hr delay though it shuoldnt take that long, thanks!

[GrudgeBringer]

Done....Please post when you arrive and have turn in as we need to force host when your ready.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have postponed the next turn 48 hours...It will be due on Thursday.

however, when Shard gets to where he is going (flying across the Pacific...long flight) and contacts me, I will Force Host so go ahead and get your turns in.

[Frozen Lama]

why are you force hosting? that only creates stales

[GrudgeBringer]

Easy....If you read the earlier posts, Shard asked for a 48 hour extension so he could fly across the pacific for whatever reason.

We had JUST hosted so that gave him 4 days to do whatever it is he had to do. He and I agreed that he would let me know when he arrived as he didn't know if an extension would be needed but wanted to be safe.

Vanheim has only his Capitol under siege and has staled the last few turns. So when Shard lets me know he is set and everyone one else has their turn in....I will force host so as to not to make everyone wait for Vanheim.

I wouldn't force host unless I knew what was going to happen, and that is why I mentioned it in the posts where you saw it.

[GrudgeBringer]

Shard has checked in and his turn has been received.

As soon as Fomoria and R'lyh has submitted thier turns I will Force host the game.

I will be leaving for Phoenix weds Morning around 10 AM and hopefully we will not have to have another extension as I will be using 'Go to my PC' and its REALLY slowwwww.

Glad your back on dry land Shard!!:up:

[JR77]

Sorry for holding things up. I am currently traveling (in Chicago) and very busy with work. I have tried three times today to send a new turn in from my hotel, but for some reason the llamaserver does not respond/accept.

I just tried sending the .2h file again and am keeping my fingers crossed. I am flying home tonight at 10pm Chicago time, and should be back to "normal" a day or two after...

Cheers

[Trumanator]

Notice this (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44190) thread.

[Kietsensei]

If vanheim has been stalling for several turn, it may be a good idea to force host

[Frozen Lama]

ok. done

[Kietsensei]

The Deva of the Celestial Empire has been killed. A false god whose power isn't enough to beat someone who is fleeing :D. No wonder her fate was to finish into a rephaim's stomach. According to the lucky giant's word, she was delicious.

More seriously, it shouldn't have ended like this and I really feel sorry for your pretender. I have to admit I was lucky here.

[JR77]

Yes, that was an example of the questionable logic of some Dom 3 battles...

On another note, I am looking for someone to step in and guide my Fomorian nation to further success. Now when the fun begins (King SC's, morrigans, artifact forging, etc.) I find myself with too little time to do my turns.

If you are interested or know someone interested in taking over Fomoria (it is a good position if someone is reading this thread from outside the game or were knocked out early), please give me a PM and we can set it up.

Cheers,
JR

[shard]

I might regret this but errr....

Shouldn't this warrant a short extension to give JR77 time to complete his turn/look for a sub?









Yes, that was an example of the questionable logic of some Dom 3 battles...

On another note, I am looking for someone to step in and guide my Fomorian nation to further success. Now when the fun begins (King SC's, morrigans, artifact forging, etc.) I find myself with too little time to do my turns.

If you are interested or know someone interested in taking over Fomoria (it is a good position if someone is reading this thread from outside the game or were knocked out early), please give me a PM and we can set it up.

Cheers,
JR

[Frozen Lama]

Yeah, and we have like an hour and a half with 4 turns still missing. i've added another day for JR77

[GrudgeBringer]

And JUST when the stars where aligned and I had EVERYONE right where I wanted them!!:eek:

Now someone will have time to see thru my plan for world domination with 16 provinces.:doh:

[JR77]

I am sorry but I do not have time at all these days and have stalled the last 3 turns. I have had 0 responses for a week on the sub, so I am turning AI. Just thought I would warn the unsuspecting neighbours :)

I am genuinely sorry about this - this was not at all how I ment for things to go... :(

[Frozen Lama]

delete my insanity

[Fakeymcfake]

I'm going to be out of town for the weekend. If you could ensure that the hosting of the next turn is delayed until monday I'd appreciate it.

[GrudgeBringer]

After it hosts this turn I will extend it until Monday.

If that isn't enough time let me know.:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

We have extended Hosting until Monday or Fakey Mcfake gets his turn in as he is out of town this weekend.

Will Host at 1700 GMT Monday:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

We still have 3 not in and its less than an hour to hosting, even with the extension.

I am going to add another 12 hours...If all but Vanheim gets in earlier I will force host (Vanheims Capitol is under seige abd he has bowed out of the game, no sense worrying about it as the fort will fall in the next couple of turns.:up:

[aaminoff]

Hi folks. I am in 2 games, this and Aquamarine, and I need to find a sub for one of them.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=717654#post717654

Thanks,
- Alex, Helheim

[aaminoff]

I found a sub for the other game, Aquamarine. Could I please get a 24h extension for VC3? Unpacking from the trip, kids sick, etc, etc.

- Alex, Helheim

[Lihaässä]

I would also like to have an extension of 24h.

- Ulm

[GrudgeBringer]

24 hour extension is in effect

[Trumanator]

I am going to be busy with ROTC essentially all this weekend, with absolutely no internet access. If I could have a delay till Monday that would be great.

[GrudgeBringer]

Hosting will be postponed until Monday afternoon for Trumanator, If he gets his turn done sooner I will force host Vanheim.

[GrudgeBringer]

no message, just getting us back on the first page

[shard]

I'm looking to trade death, water and nature gems for earth, fire or air!

[GrudgeBringer]

I think I can trade a item for quite a bit of Air which I need Death BAD.

How much you want to trade Air for Death....We xcould do it this turn.:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

no message...just keeping it on the first page

[GrudgeBringer]

Do we want an extension thru the Holidays?

Say Thursday till Monday (to let those that travel get abck and have time to do their turn?

I for one have relatives in town and while I COULD do the turn, I would rather not be pushed as I only see these people once a year.

What say the rest of you?

If NO ONE speaks up I will put it on extension by omission.:up:

[Trumanator]

Works for me. I'm in pretty much the same situation.

[aaminoff]

I would appreciate an extension, holidays w kids & relatives.

[Lihaässä]

Same here, I may request even longer period if I will travel abroad.. Thu-Mon sounds long enough however atm.

[GrudgeBringer]

Lets try and get the current turn in and then I will put an extension on it until Monday.

The Current turn expires tommorow at 1700 (or so ) GMT. We should be able to get our turns in tonight before we leave town.

I am going to play it that way, so DON'T STALE on this turn and I will protect everyone on the next.

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, we still have 5 turns not in and its 4 hours till hosting:eek:

Rather than take a chance on these stalwart nations having to Stale (AND me hearing all the yelling about it), I am going to go ahead and put an extension until Monday.

I will also be watching the turns, IF we can get this turn in I will extend it agian until Monday so no one has to worry about it.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone in the US and have a Great weekend to all of you that live all over the world (isn't the internet GREAT!!).:D

[GrudgeBringer]

agiajn keeping us on the first page

[Squirrelloid]

So, Sauromatia has a 6k RP research lead, and has had Well of Misery up forever. Given my current research, I'm pretty sure that means he's been summoning tarts for like 10+ turns - and with recruitable D4 casters, summoning tarts is easy. Is it time to just conceed and accept the inevitable?

[GrudgeBringer]

I don't think its time to conceed, at least yet.

[Frozen Lama]

I don't think that was a serious concession, just a friendly pointer of a nation that might be becoming too powerful

[GrudgeBringer]

It sure didn't sound like Squirrelloid, I just wanted to state my lowly opinion...:eek:

[Kietsensei]

Ha who will win the end game? Cheap expandable tartarians, unique but easily resummonable demons, or powerful but expensive serpah brought by wishes? ;)

[shard]

I'm requesting a 24hr extension, busy busy...

[Frozen Lama]

done

[aaminoff]

Well, now I'm afraid I need an extension. I just don't have that much time on weekday evenings.

[Trumanator]

Water pipe burst right over Frozen's computer, so he will probably need a delay until he can figure out a way to get his turns done.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have the password, will put it on 48 hour delay. Let me know if we need longer.

[vfb]

I hear Frozen is almost dead anyway. I'll volunteer to take over the position, if no-one objects. I've PM'ed my email to GB.

[shard]

Water pipe burst right over Frozen's computer, so he will probably need a delay until he can figure out a way to get his turns done.

Ah that reminds me... I need to move some of my furniture around

[GrudgeBringer]

Since Vfb has the Nation now i will take off the 48 hour extension and give it a 12 hour as requested by someone else.

[vfb]

Shortening the hosting interval usually isn't a good idea. There's still 6 nations who haven't got their turns in, and just 4 hours to host now.

[shard]

Yes I didn't realise myself, I had sent in a preliminary turn but I thought I would be able to finalise it tonight.

Perhaps another 12 hours? It looks like all the others bar Ulm and Pangaea are staling out anyway.

[Frozen Lama]

i see my nation has been stolen. oh well. if VFB wants it, he can finish it off. no worries :)

[vfb]

Oh hey, did your PC get fixed already? Cool!

I was just trying to help out, so ask GB and he'll give you your game back. :)

[Frozen Lama]

actually i just managed to get dom running on laptop.

[GrudgeBringer]

I will add another 12 hours to the turn to be sure

[Lihaässä]

I agree with vfb.. I thought the host will be on friday 17.00gmt something. If you give more time for playing the turns, please don't change it anymore - at least backwards.

[GrudgeBringer]

The original host time had a 12 hour extension for Helheim.

When the water burst over Frozen Lama's computer I set an ADDITIONAL 48 hours to allow him to figure out what he wanted to do.

I announced why and how long.

When a sub came forward and said he was ready to play instead of a 48 hour extension which was not needed I gave the original 12 asked for and an additional 12 for stragglers.

We have 3 nations that have gone to staling every turn and when it gets down to only them I force host.

Emergency extensions like the one for FL are the exception, and I keep an eye on the turn submitted file and have never let anyone stale yet.

You can always PM me with a request or a reason to keep an abnormally long extension when not needed in force and I will make sure you don't stale.

[Squirrelloid]

If Rlyeh is just staling, we should be looking for a sub. They seem to be in a halfway decent position (relative to Atlantis at least), and it seems a shame to have them just stale themselves into oblivion...

The other staling nations are generally irrelevant, with 2 and 0 provinces, so i wouldn't bother. But Rlyeh could actually do something.

[GrudgeBringer]

I believe a sub was posted for around 2 weeks...I will put another post in but I need to know more about the position they are in.

[Fakeymcfake]

Due to the holiday season, and all that comes with it, from the 18th to around newyears I'll be unable to post turns. Now I can either post for a short term sub, but I doubt I'll be able to find anyone at this time of year willing.

The second option I'm about to propose is that we simply take a break until the holiday season is over. This of course would have to be a group decision, however I've seen this work for several other games. Anyhow, I'm gone for the weekend (and have my current turn in) so I'll check back on Monday to see what was decided and post for a sub if needed.

[Squirrelloid]

But the holidays are the perfect time to play lots of Dom3! You aren't going to have a computer and/or internet access for ~14 days?

[vfb]

By the way, since Frozen got dom3 working again, he's back in charge of his nation.

And it's pretty much none of my business, but why don't you set those staling nations to AI?

GB, the problem is, once you say you are adding 48 hours, the players all bugger off and go on a 2-day drinking binge in Las Vegas, at least that's what I do. If you then change the hosting interval back again, they don't know, because they are passed out in the fountain^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Oracle at Caeser's Palace.

[Frozen Lama]

yeah it was fine this time, but for future reference, as a rule of thumb, never ever shorten the host time. bad things happen. :)

[GrudgeBringer]

Vanheim has 1 province and its under siege

Ermor has only a couple of provinces and I am not sure why no one has taken it.

Ryleh, I actually have not given it a thought as I never see that nation, but it seems to be the biggest of the 3.

Frozen, do you want to try and contact that player and see if he will set it to AI or maybe get someone else will do it.

Let me know..

G;lad you dogged the bullet on getting Dom back up, sorry about your other Comp:(

[shard]

Due to the holiday season, and all that comes with it, from the 18th to around newyears I'll be unable to post turns. Now I can either post for a short term sub, but I doubt I'll be able to find anyone at this time of year willing.

The second option I'm about to propose is that we simply take a break until the holiday season is over. This of course would have to be a group decision, however I've seen this work for several other games. Anyhow, I'm gone for the weekend (and have my current turn in) so I'll check back on Monday to see what was decided and post for a sub if needed.

I have family commitments too during the same period of time so I am all for a break.

[Kietsensei]

I agree on a break during christmas. This will allow the rephaims to eat even more and become fat.

[GrudgeBringer]

We have a good game going and have 2 of the major players with the same problem over the Holidays.

While I am normally against LONG delays in a game as I tend to forget what I had in mind the next turn, this game is right on the point of getting REAL interesting.

I suggest we go ahead and determine when we want to break and make it thru New Years Day.

We have had a suggestion to start it on the 18th and a semi- second.

If you have a opinion or position on this PLEASE let us know in the forum.

IF, we don't hear from anyone else to the contrary I am going to check with fellow Admin Frozen Lama and make it starting Dec 18, 2009 thru Jan 1 2010 so we don't lose anyone. So its VERY important for feedback!!:confused:

[Trumanator]

Fine for me.

[aaminoff]

I am on board with a break.

BTW, a note of appreciation for Frozen Lama, who rather than setting AI or staling is playing his nation to the bitter end - the defenders of TNN's capital threw my forces back from the final assault last turn.

- Alex

[GrudgeBringer]

(LOL) Yep, Frozen Lama will fight, scratch and claw till the fat lady has warmed up, sung her song, and left the building.

Good job FL!!!:up:

[Lihaässä]

Break over holidays sounds good.

[shard]

I wouldn't mind a break from now actually, i've been having to go extreme lengths to get even brief internet access

[shard]

I'd like to request a hosting delay until 20th Dec - thanks, shard

[Frozen Lama]

I put 100 hours on the clock, since we are probably taking a christmas break. i'll extend it if people might stale. quickhost is still on though, so send in the turn if you can

[GrudgeBringer]

I think thats a good idea FL, its getting that time and I also find I am having less and less time to play as it gets closer to the holidays.:up:

[Fakeymcfake]

Okay, I'm out until newyears. Current turn is in so no worries until it hosts once. Hope everyone enjoys whatever holiday season they might celebrate.

[GrudgeBringer]

Lama put 100 hours on the clock for the christmas break but it says its due Friday.

So as co-admin i have added another 24 hours and will continue to moniter turns.

IF you can get them in and we will put another large block of time on the clock.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and however you celebrate the season, all nations are now at peace (well, at least until the turn hosts) so take advantage of it.:D

[Fakeymcfake]

I won't be in a position to do any turns until the 30th at the earliest. I would greatly appreciate a delay until then.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have been just adding 12 to 24 hours at a time trying to get this Turn completed and then extend the hosting until Sunday 1/2/10/

Have no fear, I will let no one stale.

[Kietsensei]

Just make sure that once Pangaea has sent his turn you force host. I don't really want to wait for Vanheim and Ermor who have been vanquished the last turn or R'lyeh who has been stalling for several turn.

[GrudgeBringer]

Vanheim was finally killed last turn (by me) and I know Ryleh is staled. Should we get someone to set it AI or just leave it, as I havn't checked to see if its got any provinces at all.:confused:

[GrudgeBringer]

amonchaked has graciously offered to set Ryleh to AI this turn so those around him be prepared.

Vanheim is finished and will disappear as well as Ermor (as I understand it) after this turn.:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

Ryleh is now AI:up:

[shard]

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year,

Looks like not being able to do diplomacy for the past 3 weeks hasnt been very good for Sauromatia. If an admin sees this I'd like to request a 12hr extension.


PS - Its a good habit to empty your inbox before extended breaks!

[GrudgeBringer]

12 hour extension granted to Shard

[GrudgeBringer]

Just getting the forum back to the front page

[Fakeymcfake]

Having problems getting my turn in, Llamaserver keeps bouncing them back to me. Could I get a delay so that I don't stale?

[GrudgeBringer]

Fakeymcfake,

I had been watching the VC3 thread and had even extended it once on my own because we had very few people with turns submitted.

It says you posted your request at 3:15 and I had checked it an hour before noticing 3 people had not posted their turns and it was getting ready to host.

I would have extended the game if I would have seen your request a little earlier or you had Pm'd me that you had issues (I can only check the forum so many times a day). But we have had 3 people stale when I checked the admin stale record it wasn't the first.

I don't know if rolling the turn back for all 3 people is a great idea and I do believe you about issues with llamaserver.

If those that did not stale will post their feelings or PM me on the situation we will discuss it. And if it was only one person that was having 'issues' I would be more inclined to roll the turn back, than to reward the others who didn't get them in.

I have staled twice myself, and the only person that hasn't is Hinnom.

DO NOT send in any turns anybody until you let me know how you want this handled as we JUST went thru this in NvsV and it was a 10 day delay getting everyone to understand how to delete the right files etc.

[Squirrelloid]

I don't even remembering staling... I wonder what turn *that* was? I was pretty sure I'd gotten every turn in...

So, looking at who staled, Niefl and Pan are... in a war right now? So no advantage either way. I have no reason to believe Ulm is especially inconvenienced by the stale.

Without hearing reasons why the stale was exceptionally bad (from an a priori point of view - looking at the new turn file should not inform the decision), I don't see a reason to rollback.

I'm all in-favor of rollbacks for people when they failed to submit a turn due to no fault of their own, and i sympathize with Fakey, but it doesn't appear like it actually hurt him in any definable way. If he really insists on a rollback though I'll support him.

[Fakeymcfake]

Don't worry about it. Just posted to see if I could get it, isn't game breaking by any means for myself.

[Lihaässä]

Why would you think and say that Squirrelloid? I have no reason to believe Ulm is especially inconvenienced by the stale

Last turn was as important as any other - however, this one was my own bad (sent wrong file to the server). If other staled players want to roll back, I'll follow their lead, but otherwise I won't request that.

[Kietsensei]

I am not really for a rollback as it will change all bad and good events, lucky rolls against Magic resitance in all battles. However I will follow the majority.

[Trumanator]

I have no need for one.

[GrudgeBringer]

Good...no rollback, proceed with the wars gentlemen.

[Squirrelloid]

Why would you think and say that Squirrelloid? I have no reason to believe Ulm is especially inconvenienced by the stale

Last turn was as important as any other - however, this one was my own bad (sent wrong file to the server). If other staled players want to roll back, I'll follow their lead, but otherwise I won't request that.

You are not engaged in a war (that I am aware of), so only the typical inconveniences of a stale turn happened to you. To be especially inconvenienced would require staling to have led to disastrous losses you wouldn't have otherwise experienced.

[Squirrelloid]

I am not really for a rollback as it will change all bad and good events, lucky rolls against Magic resitance in all battles. However I will follow the majority.

If a rollback is warranted, anything that you learned from the new turn isn't relevant to whether a rollback should happen or not. A priori knowledge, not a posteriori, is the relevant basis for deciding whether a rollback should occur. This is a matter of principle, not 'oh no, but good stuff happened to me'. (Edit: I do not believe people who submitted a turn should be allowed to submit a new one. I also do not believe people who staled should look at the new turn until and unless the rollback discussion is concluded).

So, if Fakey was really concerned, since his failure to submit a turn was not his fault, he'd have a good case for a rollback.

On the other hand, given the stale didn't seem to hurt him any, it may not be worth the hassle of actually doing it - and that's a subjective call for Fakey to make.

[Fakeymcfake]

The call has been made. I'm cool. Lets move on.

[GrudgeBringer]

just getting us back on the first page

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[aaminoff]

Tarnation. I staled.

My whole household was sick all weekend and I just forgot what day it was. However, the fact is that I don't have the attention to spare. After all, it's only a game. I will post for a sub. Alternatively, if the current players are OK with it and if anyone is interested, we could see if any of the eliminated players from this game would like to jump back in.

- Alex, Helheim

[Squirrelloid]

Sauromatia has also staled two turns in a row, and has seemingly disappeared in another game. We may need to look for a Sauro sub regardless.

(I noticed the likely stale this last turn, and made a point of not changing my actions after I noticed as I don't want to totally abuse a staling nation. At the same time, I'm not about to assume he's going to stale only to get screwed when he actually takes a turn, so... If another stale looks likely from him I'll probably complete any current offensives and hold off on initiating new ones).

[GrudgeBringer]

Shard had told me that he thought about setting it to AI (as I seem to be the Switzerland of this game.

I asked him if thats what he really wanted and he said he maight see if someone would not attack him and see from there.

I am not saying he has bailed on all his games (Squirrel, I asked Chris if he had heard from him and he said no).

I also have been sniping around the edges of his empire with his permission. With that said Iwill do what I had planned and we will see what we want to do.

Alex, if we upped the turn time would that help you? Trying to find 2 subs is going to be hard.:(

[Squirrelloid]

On a totally different note:

Looking for 125 blood slaves. Offering 50d gems, other gems possibly negotiable.

[aaminoff]

I think I now understand better why there are so many subs requests for late games. The amount of micromanagement necessary to run a late-game empire is just plain not fun. I hate to say it, because Dom3 is otherwise such a very cool game. So I sympathize with Shard.

I will post in the main forum. The last time I did this I got a response and someone was able to take over C'tis in the Aquamarine game, and it looks like they did an OK job.

I will continue to play my nation until I can find a sub, or until something else happens.

Yes, it would be a big help to me if I could get an extension this weekend until Monday. I should have time Sunday night if all else fails.

thanks,
- Alex

[GrudgeBringer]

Alex...did you get my PM?

I didn't want you to think I was sniping you, but you where my friend and ally....and if your leaving I am going to grab soem stuff if you don't mind.

[GrudgeBringer]

just putting us on page 1 agian

[Squirrelloid]

Shard/Sauromatia has staled again. Ok, we should really think about getting someone to set Sauro AI if Shard isn't going to play his turns.

I've finished virtually all my pre-planned attacks at this point, and I really don't want to start making attacks that I'm planning with full knowledge that Shard is probably going to stale. Help alleve my guilty conscience! (If this goes on too many more turns no one will *want* to sub for Shard).

[GrudgeBringer]

Squirrel,

You know more about Shards capabilities than most I would think, If you would write up a short blurb I will add some stuff and post for a sub...

Alex (Helheim) said he will fight it out to the bitter end.

[aaminoff]

This past turn I did not stale but Shard did, I launched a major attack which I won (barely!) killing 19 commanders, so Sauro is perhaps a bit more hosed now. Also I think at some point during the last few turns of Sauro staling Hinnom toasted the big army in Port Lolomo. So we had better set Sauro AI; I very much doubt a sub would be interested, except as a public service.

We should at least not roll forward on turns until Sauro has either been subbed or set AI.

- Alex, Helheim

[GrudgeBringer]

OK....agreed.

Do we want me to find someone to set Sauro to AI or try and find a sub?

I tend to agree with Helheim

I will extend the turn until we agree.

[GrudgeBringer]

OHHHHHHH, by the way....

Those that have looked at their turn have discovered that I cast Arcane Nexus.

I was approched (as I seem to be the Switzerland in this game) by 2 Nations who suggested that I cast it so no one else would cast it.

I don't have any axe to grind with anyone and am NOT going to give the gems to anyone. It was agreed that I would give back the gems given to me to cast it and not 1 more. it was the only way I would do it...you have my word.

You can pool your gems and try and dispel it but between the 3 of us I used a TON to cast it....I say this in all humility as I don't want you warring nations to waste your gems on something that is not going to hurt you.

Thanks Grudge

[Squirrelloid]

You know, there were 5 globals up - its a pretty good way to dissuade someone from casting AN.

Actually casting it, on the other hand, can be interpreted as a declaration of war by all the other players. I hope you thought through the ramifications of your actions.

[GrudgeBringer]

First the global that went up last ..took mine out (I had Dark skies)

So...you want someone else to cast it that your at war with...

Actually I DID think of the ramifications. I have no chance to win this and don't expect to. I exist at the grace of those around me. I don't think there is a nation left that couldn't cough and knock me out.

I am enjoying watching a number of good players with large nations and how they interact and react to each other.

I have learned more in this and NvV in 2 months than I have learned in the last year.

If you want to declare war and knock me out and someone else cast it that DOES have a chance to win, then go ahead as I am more or less watching and forging...and learning.

Its like giving Switzerland all the nukes if a world war broke out. No one has a huge advantage and you fight with what you got.

Its the reason I announced it and I also sent a in game message to everyone, just in case they don't read this forum.

That sound like I am trying to hide it or ominous to you.

Those that know me know that I NEVER break my word once given. So there is no use to ask me for gems or threaten me for gems. I am just going to accumulate gems.

And ya know what...I have never cast a major Global and...it was kinda neat. This wasn't my idea originally but I will live with it and hopefully see the end of the game.:)

[Kietsensei]

Even if the rephaims are looking more closely toward your nation now that you have arcane nexus, we prefer that it was you rather than a major power casting it.

I hope we will find a sub for sauro as well and agreed that we shouldn't proceed further before finding a sub or setting him to ai.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thank you Mighty Hinnom for seeing the wisdom of my actions...


I have already delayed it 24 hours...are we in agreement that we want it set AI, because if we do I can have Statttis or Frozen Lama do it for us.

Let me know your feelings.

[GrudgeBringer]

If you don't let me know what you want to do about Sauro I will have him set to AI asap.

Some feedback please.

[Lihaässä]

I believe turning leader of the game into AI changes too much of the balance. However that seems to our only option. Anyhow the turn updates take too long tome at the moment and I'm starting lose focus/interest for the game. Especially when one of my allies is seeking for a sub.

My advice - speed up! And turn players into AI. Lets get this over with!

[GrudgeBringer]

Squirrel has put a good message on the forum but I have not gotton a response....the only option I think is AI.

I will work on getting someone to set it to AI today, will announce it and will force host once it has been taken care of and eveyone has their turn in.

[Belac]

I had severely hesitated and decided not to make an offer because I am very inexperienced and probably wouldn't do much better than the AI, and I assumed someone else would take over.

Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I am interested in giving this a shot. I have CBM 1.6. Is it necessary that I have CBM 1.5? Also, there are gemgens in this game, right? Lastly, I might not get the chance to submit a turn until Sunday, although I could take a look at the position earlier.

Also, if I take over, would one of the players in this game be interested in taking over Atlantis in Bay12Games2?

[Squirrelloid]

I had severely hesitated and decided not to make an offer because I am very inexperienced and probably wouldn't do much better than the AI, and I assumed someone else would take over.

Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I am interested in giving this a shot. I have CBM 1.6. Is it necessary that I have CBM 1.5? Also, there are gemgens in this game, right? Lastly, I might not get the chance to submit a turn until Sunday, although I could take a look at the position earlier.

Also, if I take over, would one of the players in this game be interested in taking over Atlantis in Bay12Games2?

Jumping into an endgame just to see what it is like can be worthwhile. So inexperience isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially as the AI is so awful at endgame.

You would need CBM 1.5. And there are gemgens in this game.

If you did come in as Sauromatia, a delay would certainly be in order, as you'd probably need a good couple days to consider the turn anyway, not to mention conduct diplomacy. Endgame takes longer than early game, and you'll have to interpret whatever it was Shard was doing before he mysteriously disappeared.

[Squirrelloid]

CBM 1.5 link: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43120

[Belac]

Alrighty, send me the turn file. I will PM grudgebringer with my email address.

[GrudgeBringer]

Turn resent to Belac taking over sauro...Hosting postponed until Sunday to give him an oppourtunity to look it over.

Everybody let him know your status with him...don't backstab him, if your at war tell him...if your an ally, stay with it (for now).

[Belac]

Hello everyone. This will be quite an experience--Sauromatia is pretty powerful. I have some idea who I'm fighting here--if anyone is an ally, I would be grateful. Otherwise I'll just try to go down fighting, and figure out how to field my SCs.

Anyone fighting me, please let me know what you did to Sauromatia the last few turns.

[aaminoff]

Thanks for taking over the position. I sent you a PM with as much info as I could remember, though I didnt have the map in front of me.

I don't know if Sauro has scouts out everywhere. If not, it would be good if someone could summarize broadly who is where and like that. You could ask Grudgebringer, aka good old Switzerland.

[Belac]

I am sorry for not having gotten my turn in. I had PMed Grudgebringer asking for a further extension, and have just finished my turn. There was no way I could have done it before now. Is there anything that can be done? Can we roll back? I have turn 62 all ready and have not looked at turn 63.

[GrudgeBringer]

Guys...Belac Pm'd me this afternoon and I just got it. he said because of diplomacy issues he didn't get his turn done and it hosted.

He wants a roll back...I would like to help him out here, but at this stage of the game do we want to have people able to look at the turns and them roll it back?

On the other hand, he is taking Sauro over and deserves every courtesy..

I need some opinions here...

NO ONE SEND IN A TURN UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.

[Squirrelloid]

I have not looked at my turn and would not oppose a rollback. It would be nice for our sub to not have to take yet another stale.

Just letting Belac submit a turn after the rollback and force hosting would prevent anyone from benefitting if they have looked at their turn.

[Belac]

Thanks if you let me. It took me a long time to give all the movement and forging orders, script battles, learn how high-level spells interacted, figure out what my predecessor was planning, see which provinces connected where...

[GrudgeBringer]

OK Squirrel, I am going to gamble that everyone on here is smart enough to either figure it out of come to the forum.

I will chek llama server, make sure no one has done there turn and roll it back...Belac Get your turn in as soon as you get it so I can force host!!!

[Belac]

My turn is sending...there it goes. Forcehost as soon as it shows Sauromatia's turn as in.

And thanks. Endgame empires are a whole lot of work.

[GrudgeBringer]

Ok..for those confused, we did a rollback so Belac (Sauro's replacement) could get his turn in. AnD then I did a force host since no one had sent there turn in.

IF you had looked at the new turn (I think) you will have to do turn 62 all over agian and submit (use the rollback turn to redo). IF you didn't look at the new turn (I think) all you have to do is resend the turn in like normal.

Squirrel, you read it that way?

[Squirrelloid]

Anyone who downloaded the old current turn needs to delete the file and use the new file. Any work done on the old turn (ie, the 2h file) needs to also be deleted, it is no longer relevant.

If you hadn't DLed as yet, just don't DL the old one and only use the new one.

[Lihaässä]

No problem with roll back.

[Belac]

Thanks everyone! I promise there will be no more rollback trouble from me, now that I have the full turn time to look at the position, and have familiarized myself with where everything is.

[GrudgeBringer]

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[GrudgeBringer]

I put a 6 hour extension on for Helheim. This will be the last non asked for extension in the game unless a special circumstance arises.

We need to get this game going agian.

[aaminoff]

Thank you kindly for that Grudge. I was actually about to submit my turn with half my dudes doing nothing useful when I saw that you had extended it. I will try to get it in in good time from now on.

[Belac]

The battle replay in Ulaan Bataar shows very different results from what seem to have actually happened.

[GrudgeBringer]

That I have no idea about.

I have heard that happens sometimes, although it has never happened to me.

Lets see what some of the other guys say, inthe meantime, go on the forum and Start a thread asking if anyone has had that happen and what can you do about it,if anything.

If its just a random thing, we will not roll back the turn to replay 1 battle. Sorry, if this was a bad thing...it could have just as well been a good thing.

It may correct itself next turn also.

[Belac]

I don't want anyone to do anything about it--I am just really curious how that one Helheim Tartarian killed/routed 4 of my SCs, since he seemed to die pretty quickly in the replay.

[Trumanator]

Well one thing that has worked for frozenlama before is deleting and then redownloading CBM. I have no idea if/why/how it works, but he did that in the first Cripple Fight and had no problems afterwards.

[aaminoff]

I agree that was weird. The phenomenon has been discussed in a couple threads on the main forum.

My guess is, suppose the version of CBM I (and presumably you too) have installed is very slightly different from what is on llamaserver. Because the way battles work is that it re-runs the battle using the same seed for the random number generator, even a tiny change could make a battle take a completely different course: if something happened slightly differently early on, all of the dice rolls might get shifted so that a really bad defense roll turns into a really bad attack roll, etc.

The other question is, how did that fight come out in my favor. Without being able to see the battle video it is impossible to even speculate. All I can say is that I have seen some really wacky battle videos. I think I might have posted in this thread about my assault on Tir Na Nog's capital fortress, where a zillion spells were flying back and forth, troops on both sides dying in droves everywhere, and after 20-30 turns one or two of TNNs mages who were not fatigued out won the day by casting frozen heart on my thugs, who happened to have no cold resistance (or perhaps only 50% cold resistance).

[Lihaässä]

Hmm, I happened to saw the battle - there was no question who won. Helheim's troops ran over Sauromantia's. The tart you saw dying kicked *** and didn't even get that close dying.

I wont go into details, but Sauromantia routed on turn 20, or so.

[aaminoff]

Interesting. That implies to me that Lihaa:ssa: had the same version of CBM 1.5 that the llamaserver has, while both Belac and I have a slightly different version. I'm going to try re-downloading cbm 1.5 and see if the battle movie changes.

[GrudgeBringer]

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[Belac]

Although it is very interesting to play around with a late-game nation with all the research completed and lots of unique SCs, I'm finding lategame micro to be a bit overwhelming. I seem to have raised Sauro from its deathbed, but I would like to look for a real replacement, someone who can make it fully live and breathe.

I have Sauro's house in order and (with 1 exception) know the lay of the land, and I'm not going to vanish. So whoever took over for me would actually know what's going on, what's where, magic items, units, diplomacy, etc. Until someone is found, I will keep playing, of course.

[Fakeymcfake]

Yeah, late game is tricky. You really need to know exactly what and where and why things are going on in order to make it dance right. And this is from someone who still doesn't know exactly what he's doing.