Overlords - Game Thread. (playing)

[rdonj]

Rules:
Overlords - Overlords will start with pre-defined empires, 10 provinces large. They will also start with 2 additional forts, but will still only have the regular starting army. All overlords will also be given a gatestone at the beginning of the game. Overlords may only attack normal nation or independant provinces if their god is in the army, or if they have dominion in the province. They may not storm or siege a normal nation's capitol until either all other overlords are dead, or another nation has captured the capitol. They must still follow the god/dominion rule when capturing previously taken capitols. Overlords may attack any other overlord at any time, however.

A blood sacrificing nation can NOT be an overlord. Also, if some of the overlords have stealth preachers and others do not, a generic recruitable stealth preacher will be added to the do nots. Overlords get first dibs on nations, will choose using the ranked lists method before the normals submit their list.

Normals - Normal nations may not cast any global spells, including national globals. Other than this, they can take any action they wish. Normal nations will be chosen using the ranked lists method.

Gatestones - Gatestones will be moved down to construction 6, but will be changed to require e9s9 to forge.


Diplomacy Clarification: Diplomacy is unrestricted and NAPs should not be seen as binding for this game.

Settings:
Age - QM has suggested MA, this seems a decent starting point. Any era should work though.
Map - The map will be around 15 provinces per player, maybe a little more. Pre-set starts, a new map may have to be made for the game. We'll see.
Mods - cbm 1.6, non-unique gatestones
Gold/resource/supplies/indies - normal
Players - I am hoping to get all ma nations in this game, with 6 overlords and the rest normals. However if fewer players sign up this ratio may change.
Magic sites - 20
Renaming - on
HoF - 15
Research - difficult
All other settings default.

Hosting - 24 hours for the first 5-10 turns, 48 hours until turn 30, then 72 hours until someone starts complaining their empire is too large . Extensions will only be granted a maximum of once per turn, for no more than 4 hours until the very late stages of the game. The only exception to this is if it proves necessary to search for a sub, upon which time a reasonable delay will be given. There will be NO rollbacks, ever, unless it is absolutely necessary due to a llamaserver/game issue that requires a rollback to be resolved. A mass stale will not result in a rollback unless it is coupled with some other issue.



Victory Conditions:
Overlords - Either all other overlords must be dead and the sole surviving overlord in control of at least 5 capitols for 3 turns OR control 10 capitols for 3 turns(assuming all nations).

Normals - For a normal nation to win, they must control at least 4 capitols, plus one overlord starting fort for 3 turns(these will have VPs). These forts will be crystal citadels.

Hopefully these victory conditions will prevent the game from dragging on for too long and keep things interesting.



Notes: I will ask that players who are overlords please refrain from using their gatestone with their pretender to take provinces surrounding a normal nation's capitol within the first 10 turns as it would make the game extremely unfun for any player this happened to. After that however, feel free to do so if you like. Keep in mind that only more experienced players will be considered for overlord positions. This is for matters of balance to prevent the game from ending too quickly.




Players: (21/21)

Overlords:
Baalz - R'lyeh
Lingchih - Ashdod
atul - Marignon
DrPraetorious - Machaka
Squirreloid - T'ien Ch'i

Normals:
Kianduatha - Oceania
swapoer - Man (eliminated)
rtyffg - Pangaea
viccio - Arcoscephale
Mithras - C'tis
TwoBits - Atlantis (eliminated)
LumenPlacidum - Ermor
LupusFatalis - Vanheim
Namad - Eriu
melnorjr - Shinuyama
Domdomdom - Agartha
Hoplosternum - Abysia
sansanjuan - Caelum (eliminated)
Pyg - Pythium
Pelthin - Jotunheim
Tarrax - Bandar Log (eliminated)


Edit: Map and mod files attached. Download at your leisure.

[Kietsensei]

Hello

the concept looks very interesting. I would like to sign as an overlord.
Do I have to tell the nation I would like to play now or is it a random assignment on a pre defined list?

[rdonj]

Hi. It's my understanding that you're a fairly new player. Correct me if I'm wrong? I'm sorry but for game balance purposes I don't think it would be a good idea to have newer players in as the overlords, it would make them a target and be too easy for the other overlords to kill off. I am going to go with first come first serve for this game, with overlords getting their choice of nation when they sign up and then normal nations once all of the overlords have chosen. Unless this is just wildly unpopular. I would have no problem with the ranked lists method for example.

[Squirrelloid]

Tentatively interested, although I'm also hoping some of my other games will resolve soon... (doubt I qualify for Overlord, so i'll hop in the trenches).

I am a little worried that requiring the normal nations to capture an overlord capitol will make it near-impossible for a normal nation to win. Even assuming some normal nation managed to come close to capturing one, nothing stops another overlord from swooping down on their weakened rivals capitol and taking it, and having miraculously beaten one overlord it is highly unlikely the normal nation could handle the armies of a second one.

Effectively, the premium on overlord capitols means that to take a single overlord capitol a normal nation has to not only beat one overlord, but then fend off the other four. (first, because eliminating overlords makes it easier for overlords to win, and second, because Overlords will quickly run out of targets they can take other than the territories of other overlords).

It might be better to simply require 5 capitols for 3 turns for normal nations, and make the overlords need to meddle in normal nation diplomacy to prevent such a thing from happening. (I believe this was the original proposal).

I'm also slightly worried that the game settings require an awake dom10 pretender, because the game places an extra premium on spreading dominion.

[Kietsensei]

Hi. It's my understanding that you're a fairly new player. Correct me if I'm wrong? I'm sorry but for game balance purposes I don't think it would be a good idea to have newer players in as the overlords, it would make them a target and be too easy for the other overlords to kill off. I am going to go with first come first serve for this game, with overlords getting their choice of nation when they sign up and then normal nations once all of the overlords have chosen. Unless this is just wildly unpopular. I would have no problem with the ranked lists method for example.

Well yes and no. I am kinda new as I have less than 5 MP games on internet using the llamaserver. But I have been playing this game for more than 1 year now on hotseat with friends. Playing on internet allowed me to play with different players that's it but I guess the winning tactics and strategy remain the same.

It is up to you to decide as it is your game. If you think I am not experienced enough then I will drop without any hard feeling :)

[rdonj]

Tentatively interested, although I'm also hoping some of my other games will resolve soon... (doubt I qualify for Overlord, so i'll hop in the trenches).

I am a little worried that requiring the normal nations to capture an overlord capitol will make it near-impossible for a normal nation to win. Even assuming some normal nation managed to come close to capturing one, nothing stops another overlord from swooping down on their weakened rivals capitol and taking it, and having miraculously beaten one overlord it is highly unlikely the normal nation could handle the armies of a second one.

Effectively, the premium on overlord capitols means that to take a single overlord capitol a normal nation has to not only beat one overlord, but then fend off the other four. (first, because eliminating overlords makes it easier for overlords to win, and second, because Overlords will quickly run out of targets they can take other than the territories of other overlords).

It might be better to simply require 5 capitols for 3 turns for normal nations, and make the overlords need to meddle in normal nation diplomacy to prevent such a thing from happening. (I believe this was the original proposal).

I'm also slightly worried that the game settings require an awake dom10 pretender, because the game places an extra premium on spreading dominion.

You make some good points squirrel. I want to force the normals to have to face the overlords eventually though. Theoretically, the normal is "winning" by becoming an overlord. And becoming an overlord without ever fighting one feels wrong to me. So we're going to compromise here. Instead of having to control a capitol, you have to control one of an overlord's starting forts. These will have VPs in them, but VPs will not be used to determine a winner, they'll just be there as a reference.


I wouldn't say an awake dom10 pretender is absolutely necessary, but it's certainly not a bad idea. It is a safe bet though that most players would decide to go with a dom10 awake pretender to keep out overlord dominion.

[rdonj]

Hi. It's my understanding that you're a fairly new player. Correct me if I'm wrong? I'm sorry but for game balance purposes I don't think it would be a good idea to have newer players in as the overlords, it would make them a target and be too easy for the other overlords to kill off. I am going to go with first come first serve for this game, with overlords getting their choice of nation when they sign up and then normal nations once all of the overlords have chosen. Unless this is just wildly unpopular. I would have no problem with the ranked lists method for example.

Well yes and no. I am kinda new as I have less than 5 MP games on internet using the llamaserver. But I have been playing this game for more than 1 year now on hotseat with friends. Playing on internet allowed me to play with different players that's it but I guess the winning tactics and strategy remain the same.

It is up to you to decide as it is your game. If you think I am not experienced enough then I will drop without any hard feeling :)

Yeah, I would prefer someone with more mp experience than that play as the overlords. Otherwise you will just be crushed mercilessly by all the other overlords... it's unavoidable. You would be perceived as weak even if you aren't, ganged up on and it would not be pretty.

[namad]

i'll play as long as one or two of the irc regulars do :)

but you seem to be actively recruiting on irc anyways

[rdonj]

Yep. I think there will be a few from irc.

[kianduatha]

I'd love to play as a normal nation. I noticed that you didn't mention anything about the blood nations being banned in this thread. If that's true, I'd love to play Abysia. Otherwise maybe Ulm.

[rdonj]

Yeah, blood sacrifice nations are fine, just not for overlords. I will go ahead and mark you down for abysia.

[Tegramon]

Hey

Is this game noob friendly? I just bought (and received) the game through mail, and I want to try my hand at the multiplayer. Is there a place for me?

Bogdan

[rdonj]

Greetings tegramon. You may feel free to join as a normal nation. This may be a bit odd of a game to join as your first mp game... it is in no way a traditional game setup, and possibly a bit more complex. For the moment though I will mark you down as interested in playing. If you decide otherwise later just let me know and I'll remove you from the list.

[swapoer]

Count me in as another noob.
I have played the game for several months mostly SP.Currently i am trying MA CT.

[Lingchih]

I will play an overlord, if needed. Rdonj's inclusion of me seems a bit inconclusive.

[Ossa]

I'd like to join as a normal nation - Sauromatia for example;)

[rdonj]

I will play an overlord, if needed. Rdonj's inclusion of me seems a bit inconclusive.

Well, the way you were talking it didn't look so good ;) If more vets don't sign up for overlords soon I will start opening up overlord positions to less experienced players. I still don't want noobs as overlords but somewhat experienced players may suffice if there are not many really skilled overlords in the game.

Ossa - This is MA so sauromatia won't quite be possible. You are free to pick from any ma nation though. AFter overlords choose their nations.

[namad]

i thought as admin you were selecting which nations are overlords and which aren't?



also I guess if I am allowed to pick a nation so early on in this process i'll pick vanheim

[rdonj]

I decided that it doesn't really matter who I think the overlords are, the overlords can decide for themselves who they'd excel with. Currently I'm only letting the overlords pick nations. I have you down as a normal right now... do you want me to switch you in as an overlord instead?

[chrispedersen]

Hey rdonj....

Would love to play - but I'm in 2 games now, and this is all I can really handle.

I love the fact that you are trying non standard nations - ie multiple province.

this was something I tried to get people interested in - using pts to let them build/start with bigger empires.. but I couldn't get any interest.

So I will follow your thread with interest and hope all goes well!

[namad]

i'm probably half the player ling is ;)

i just noticed you had another guy who was a normal down as already having wanted abysia...

also... abysia and vanheim both can blood sacrifice? right? making them intelligible for selection by overlords?

[rdonj]

Hey rdonj....

Would love to play - but I'm in 2 games now, and this is all I can really handle.

I love the fact that you are trying non standard nations - ie multiple province.

this was something I tried to get people interested in - using pts to let them build/start with bigger empires.. but I couldn't get any interest.

So I will follow your thread with interest and hope all goes well!

Thanks :). A game like this is something probably out of a lot of people's comfort zones. I am just hoping there are enough people who might be interested enough to play, then I can worry about whether it blows up in my face or not.... Let me know if you decide to change your mind about not playing. I'm sure we could find a spot for you.


Namad - You're right, I shouldn't have marked down abysia already. Well, I still want overlords picking first. I guess I will have to remove the mark for abysia and deal with this later.

Abysia and vanheim are blood sacrifice nations so yeah, they will not be available as overlord choices.

[Gregstrom]

I don't want this concept to die the death, so you can confirm me. I'm not sure I'm much of a vet, but I'll be an overlord if you like. I've no idea what nation to take, though.

[rdonj]

I'll take you as an overlord. Don't worry about deciding your nation too quickly. I plan on holding sign ups open until this saturday. That should be plenty of time to decide on a nation.

[rtyffg]

Interesting concept. I'd like to be in as a normal nation. As pangaea, if overlords do not take them first of course.

[rdonj]

Welcome to the game :).

[chrispedersen]

namad is right up their with baalz in talent...

surprisingly, I'd really like to get in as .. arcosephale.. no chance to win but I enjoy the race...

[namad]

how about we just see how many players we get then have rdonj set the teams?

the best players can just be the overlords... and we can use however many total nations we can get signups for? that way we make sure to get the ideal balance for the game? or is it too late to change the game settings now that we've started asking for players?

[rdonj]

If the teams are looking too unbalanced when signups are over, I will ask if anyone is willing to switch for the sake of balance. I have enough faith in the community that I believe this will be enough. The way this is going we may be a little overlord heavy. Or we may not. Ideally I'd like to have three or so times as many normal nations as overlords. If everyone who is signed up plays, we are reasonably close to that ratio even right now.

So CP, should I pencil you in?

[Gregstrom]

Well, I'm happy to play as either side if it gets things off the ground.

[Calahan]

With the Noob v Vet game now having finished, maybe you'll get an influx of players for the 'normal' nations in this game, allowing you to get your desired Overlord : Normal ratio. I'm sure there are now a few confidence filled noobs out there from that game who want to show that their downing of the Vets had nothing to do with numerical advantage ;)

Best of luck with the game everyone. And hope it develops more-or-less as intended.

[viccio]

If possible i play.

[atul]

Seeing I'm fast gravitating towards zero ongoing games I'd like to sign up if there's still room.

[coobe]

can i still join this game ?

[Mithras]

If there's still space I'd like to take part as a normal nation.

[rdonj]

Well, I'm happy to play as either side if it gets things off the ground.

Thanks greg :). I of course hope that you will be able to stay with your first choice, players permitting.

Viccio: Sure, you can play.

Atul: I'd love to have you. Would you like in as an overlord? With all these other sign ups, I think I need another.

Coobe: Yes you may join. Sign ups will stay open for 3 more days.

Mithras: Welcome aboard.

Calahan: Yeah, I was hoping to get some of the players from noobs vs vets. They've been very good players, doing a good job of avoiding stales, sticking with the games, and finding subs when necessary. And I can see I have 3 now :D Of course, if more Noobs alumni wish to join, I will be only happy to take them.



Edit: Okay, so technically if I want 6 overlords with 24 players, I'm looking at a 4 to 1 ratio of normals to overlords. If all players on the list, including tentatives were to play we would be exactly at that ratio right now. I'm not going to worry too much about exactly hitting this ratio. Anywhere between 3 to 1 and 4 to 1 should be fine.

[Squirrelloid]

Well, if you have more overlord qualified players than needed, some of them could possibly be convinced to play normal nations? The real problem would be if you didn't get enough overlords.

[atul]

Atul: I'd love to have you. Would you like in as an overlord? With all these other sign ups, I think I need another.

Good to be on board. If you feel that you need overlords I can do that, won't have problem the other way either. I'm easy.

[TwoBits]

This sounds fun, or at least unusual, so I'd like to join too!

BTW, what are the diplomacy parameters to be in this kind of game?

[rdonj]

Welcome aboard, twobits :) I am confused though, what do you mean by diplomacy parameters?

Squirrel - I think we're doing okay on the overlord to normal ratio right now. Mostly veteran players aren't signing up for the game though, so it may be hard to get a full game with 6 overlords. I think we're probably not going past 5.

Atul - Thanks for being flexible. For the moment I will mark you down as an overlord. We'll see if we need to change things around later.

[TwoBits]

Welcome aboard, twobits :) I am confused though, what do you mean by diplomacy parameters?

Just wondering if there were any restrictions on diplomacy, like in a RAND game or something. Or whether you're anticipating groups of "normals" to try to gang up on selected "overlords", or that "overlords" might collect one or more "normal" 'minor allies' or such.

[Squirrelloid]

I think diplomacy is essential to this style of game. Defeating overlords is going to require normal cooperation.

[rdonj]

Oh, no, there will be no restrictions on diplomacy. Overlords and normals may feel free to interact as they wish. As overlords will control the bulk of the gem income in the game, I strongly suspect that there will be both groups of normals who band together to try to bring them down, and normals who do business with the overlords to get things they need. Neither of those outcomes is undesirable from my point of view. And I agree with squirrel, even another overlord would have trouble taking out an overlord without normal intervention. And to do it while not being killed by whatever normals were around him? That would take some doing without effective diplomacy.

Also, I think diplomacy in this game should be machiavellian (backstabbing allowed), thematically speaking. The overlords are the devil, and if you make a deal with the devil, you have to expect he is going to betray you in the end. Besides if diplomacy was not machiavellian it could lead to scenarios where a player could take victory virtually unopposed due to standing NAPs, which would be easier than normal due to the relatively easy victory conditions of this game.

Hopefully this is not too controversial of a decision, unfortunately I forgot to mention it in the first post. Bad form I suppose, I always forget to mention diplomacy.

[Squirrelloid]

IMHO, diplomacy is always allowed and machiavellian unless specified otherwise.

[TwoBits]

IMHO, diplomacy is always allowed and machiavellian unless specified otherwise.

That's what I figured, but with a lot of games going the RAND route these days, I just wanted to check :) And yes, let's make sure it's Machiavellian - I hate having my hands tied by rules-lawyers!

So maybe that should be made clear, if that's the way we want it - deal breaking and back-stabbing are perfectly fine, should perhaps be positively encouraged, and should have absolutely no out-game consequences (so what happens in Overlords stays in Overlords ;) ).

[rdonj]

Added a short blurb to the OP to help clarify the situation.

[namad]

I am not willing to abide by an agreement to selectively not remember who has lied to me and who has not.

If you lie to me, I will remember you have lied to me. I won't expect any sort of retribution or punishment, but I certainly won't promise to forget it occurred forever.



meh, fine i'll play... I've never held a grudge against anyone who has lied to me, but I will certainly remember it happening if you do, and perhaps be less confident in what you say to me for years to come.

[Squirrelloid]

I'm not sure machiavellian diplomacy means no out of game consequences. A player's reputation is built on such things. And its not just backstabbing or lack thereof - a player who behaves erratically may find others less willing to deal with him. Worse, a player who backstabs seemingly at random will be much less likely to be trusted than one who backstabs for clear reasons - ie, predictability in backstabbing gives other players a reasonable expectation of when you might or might not do so.

[Sombre]

There have been a few threads about this (NAPs being binding, or reputations carryng over etc).

IIRC there was no consensus on the 'default' so it's always good to be specific.

[Calahan]

If a game states specifically that back-stabbing is to be expected, and that Machiavellian types of play and NAP's are accepted (and even encouraged) in that game, then that should be enough to ensure anything that happens within that game, stays strictly in that game alone.

If a game fails to state this info regarding NAP's etc, or states that NAP's are binding, then there is a case to be made for a players general reputation in future games to be harmed by their actions in that game (such as backstabbing).

But I think it is completely out of line to hold personal grudges against a player, or to mark their reputation as untrustworthy, for backstabbing etc. in games where it specifically states it is to be expected. It is just another rule of that game, and there should be no post-game repercussions for any player who is simply acting within the rules of the game.

If you don't like the thought of being back-stabbed, then don't sign up for games where it is an option. And if it isn't stated clearly in the rules at the sign-up stage, then make a point to ask the admin of that game about it before signing up.

[Baalz]

Indeed. To me "backstabbing encouraged" games are really "quasi-no diplomacy" games, as in the spirit of the rules of the game every player should be looking at attacking every other player if there is a good opportunity, regardless of the completely meaningless words exchanged. It's stated up front by the host that everyone's words are meaningless, you *can't* have a NAP...though you're free to agree to whatever you want with other players knowing full well it's meaningless.

[TheDemon]

I, on the other hand, make a different list, of players whom I think are likely to put a big black mark on my record if I backstab them. Much easier to backstab someone who doesn't care, and all the sweeter when you pull out the dagger if you know the player who does care trusts you, because the players who really care about keeping deals aren't going to pay attention to a little blurb about "non-binding NAPs" in a game description, even moreso than the backstabbers aren't going to care about its omission.

[namad]

After speaking with rdonj about the topic, I get the feeling that the idea he has in mind is not the same idea baalz just stated. Then again who knows, the vagueness of the topic makes it difficult to tell if anyone is agreeing with anyone else.

In a game especially designed for manipulation of other players via diplomacy, is it possible to have *all* diplomacy be totally meaningless?



This contradiction led me to consider if I wished to play in this game or not. However, once I realized this phenomenon, where everyone interrupts the same statement in a different fashion, was universal... I was able to rationalize my position as yet another interruption of that statement. Therefore, I can believe whatever I want to believe without needing to disbelieve anyone else's interpretation! It then became logically consistent for everyone to disagree about the scenario's guidelines. As a result I won't have any problem playing in the game.


On a larger scope, the games where diplomatic constraints are "unstated" or stated as "no restrictions"... suffer from the same problem. Many people take this to mean that naps cannot be broken and then they whine when they are. Still others take this to mean there are no rules and no need to honor naps. So, the scenario in which every dominions3 game is played is one where each individual player plays according to his own set of rules, which almost always differ from another player's guidelines. This seems to be a contradiction of sorts, but given that it has occurred 1000s of times and in fact ALWAYS occurs... clearly it must be a valid and consistent game setup. Despite appearances to the contrary.

[Calahan]

I think the main problem people have is that they consider both the following types of NAP's to be governed by the same level of trust.

1 - An NAP you sign with another nation, and then have no further contact or dialogue with until 50+ turns later when one of the nations involved says "Hey, you just attacked me. But we signed an NAP 50+ turns ago!".

2 - An NAP you sign with another nation, and then have constant contact with throughout the course of the game, trading items, intel, maybe coordinating attacks.


I consider case 1 to be pretty much a joke. As how can it possibly be realistic to think... "How can I defend the huge 10 border province I have with my Eastern neighbour? I know, lets defend it all nice and securely with a little piece of paper with NAP written on it. As that means I can leave vast sections of my empire completely undefended, and I'll never have to put any troops there again what-so-ever. That is until my Eastern neighbour gives me a convenient 3-turn warning that he is going to attack me in that area."

To me, this way of thinking has no logic to it, or even a remote connection to the realities of any strategy game I have ever played. And anyone who thinks along these lines deserves to get backstabbed to death in every game they play.


Whereas case 2 above is a situation in which you will rarely see a back-stabbing incident occur. As there you have two nations who have agreed to not fight each other for the mutual benefit of both nations, but are in constant contact, and are both regularly benefiting from such a high level of contact.

So at least in my experience to date, a high level of respect builds up between the players involved in these cases, which greatly reduces the chances of any back-stabbing. It may still happen of course, but anyone who has worked closely with another player in a game over any reasonable duration of time, would find it very difficult to suddenly turn on their friend and ally.

Whether case 2 should be like that in the context of the game is another matter, but in reality that is how it does tend to work.

[Executor]

Diplomacy is an ability to gain strategic advantage and find solutions, so if someone makes a NAP so he can more easily attack it's still a diplomatic move to me, and a good one.

I believe both types of NAPs stated above by Calahan are the same, and should not require "maintainance", however a NAP is basically a show/sign of trust between two nations/players, and it is specifically up to them if they are to find them binding or not, and of course the "house rules", which are rarely stated, and never state that NAP are binding which would be ridiculous IMO.
But still, a player who belies that a NAP in any case scenario is enough of a protection has still quite a lot to learn, and should experience some backstabbing as a lesson.

I don't think that diplomacy is meaningless in Machiavellian games as Baalz states, however it is probably reduced to a lower level and players should be aware of what type of game they are entering and not ***** about it if they get screwed over.

But again, Machiavellian game or not is the same to me, nothing prevents anyone from breaking any form of pact, agreement in any game as all is fare in love and war, and as I said, it would be stupid to assume that pacts cannot be broken, any pact.

[Squirrelloid]

Diplomacy in a machiavellian game is the art of convincing your rivals that what is to your advantage is also to their advantage. A rival who believes that what you want is also to his advantage will likely do what you want or something close to it. I had an NAP last over 50 turns in Water Total War because we both understood that violating it would take us both out of the game. (I think he jumped the gun slightly in ending it, but I shall enjoy watching him die =) ).

Also, feel free to whine about being stabbed, just don't expect anyone to care. But stabbing will put a blackmark on that nation's reputation (at least in game) and other nations may be more wary about dealing with them in the future. Nations who honor their agreements will find other nations are more likely to form and honor agreements with them.

[LumenPlacidum]

Sure, I'll join this as a normal nation.

[LupusFatalis]

I'll play.

[Septimius Severus]

It is good to see so many NvV alumni signing up for this game, they are a fine group of players.

Rdonj, have all other settings been decided upon via the earlier concept thread? Map type (i.e. random with placed starts, pre-existing with placed starts, or custom with placed starts), nation selection process, etc?

It will be interesting to see who will prevail in this mixed FFA type game. Likely, one of the overlords will have a good chance with their perks and being helmed by an experienced player. Geography may play a role in deciding which players choose to work together initially but as it is FFA there can be only one winner.

If I am needed to reach a recruitment goal and no one else can be found you may count me in as a normal nation. Otherwise should someone need a sub I am likewise available, especially for any of my former teammates. Best of luck.

[Jarkko]

Interesting to read the comments about importance of diplomacy in NAP and non-NAP enviroment. I've played mostly multiplayer games (where communication and diplomacy are of utter importance) outside these forums, and the whole concept of NAP's has been slightly alien to me. My conclusion has been this: Enforced NAP's kill the diplomacy in the game. I think diplomacy and communicating is *much* more important in games where NAP's are not enforced.

Although, I've played exactly one game where NAP's were accrding to the game rules binding; it is the exact one game where I have had the least diplomacy and contact with the other players. You sign a NAP, after that you don't have to give a hoot of what the other thinks; if he intends to attack you, he will have to inform you ages before. NAP games are the lazy mans games and not very different from single play, if you ask me :)

Where NAP's are not binding you actually have to *play* the game as a multiplayer game: You have to be in contact with the other players, you have to rely more on intelligence gathered (both in game and outside the game in communications with the other players. Pacts and alliances are much more fluid, becaue you know you can talk yourself out from sticky situations if you just are able to prove the alternative to your destruction is the better one (while in NAP games that is not true; how can you can you possibly take advantage of a lucrative situation where your NAP partner is doing something silly and still expect you to still let him get to a winning position?).

Without enforced NAP's you have to build yourself a reputation. Do you want to be viewed as a windmill, who rotates allegiances all the time? Do you want to be viewed as a bonehead, rigidly following agreed plans even if they mean your own destruction? Or do you want to be viewed as a reliable character who still are not totally against the idea of changing direction if the situation so demands?

Of course each of us have our own views on not only the other players, but on our selves too. It would be interesting to know how close your own views on self correlates with the views others have on you :)

[atul]

I pretty much agree with Jarkko on NAPs. I too feel they are detrimental to the game in general, but since they're a industry standard there's a little to do.

Just a few questions about the game, if I may.

1) "if water nations are included UWGIM"

UWGIM?

2) Overlord nations "can't take neutral capitals". Can an overlord take a former capital from a third party if the original nation is dead? (i.e. neutral Marignon kills neutral Ermor and takes his capital. Can overlord Jotunheim come and take province Ermor from Marignon now?) And does taking mean storming the castle, or does moving into province to siege count also?

3) Domkilling allowed, I assume?

4) If overlord nations are to choose first, when are we choosing and with which nations are available? No blood sacrificing nations, sure, but there's either/or mention about stealthy preachers. How and when is that decided?

Thanks.

[rdonj]

Lumen, lupus, welcome aboard. I am adding you to the list now.

It is good to see so many NvV alumni signing up for this game, they are a fine group of players.

Rdonj, have all other settings been decided upon via the earlier concept thread? Map type (i.e. random with placed starts, pre-existing with placed starts, or custom with placed starts), nation selection process, etc?

It will be interesting to see who will prevail in this mixed FFA type game. Likely, one of the overlords will have a good chance with their perks and being helmed by an experienced player. Geography may play a role in deciding which players choose to work together initially but as it is FFA there can be only one winner.

If I am needed to reach a recruitment goal and no one else can be found you may count me in as a normal nation. Otherwise should someone need a sub I am likewise available, especially for any of my former teammates. Best of luck.

Unless something in this thread specifically states otherwise yeah, all the settings from the concept thread apply.

Thanks for offering to fill in if I need another player. I won't know until saturday but it's good to know I have the option.



Atul:
1) UWGIM is a mod burnsaber made to make being underwater and attacking underwater nations more interesting. It reduces the research and gem costs of water breathing items and I believe air breathing items, adds a few new spells, and makes some other minor adjustments. You might want to check it out. Link (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43472). As it so happens, QM is also adding portions of this to the next version of CBM along with unique gem gens. If the new version of CBM comes out before the game is started we will just use CBM to make creating the mod slightly less complicated for me.
2) Good question. I think my answer is that you can, but only if that player is within one capitol of winning. However this answer may change when I next visit IRC if the regulars there can convince me this is wrong.
3) Domkilling is perfectly acceptable, yes.
4) Overlord nations can begin picking as soon as I declare the signup phase over on saturday. That will probably be within two hours of this time. As for stealthy preachers, I am thinking for simplicity's sake, I will just wait and see what you guys pick. And if some of you have stealthy preachers and others don't, I am considering adding a generic, recruitable stealthy preacher to those that don't have one. If there is too much of a problem with this I will probably just ban stealth preach nations from being overlords for simplicity's sake.

[atul]

2) Good question. I think my answer is that you can, but only if that player is within one capitol of winning. However this answer may change when I next visit IRC if the regulars there can convince me this is wrong.

So, in other words, achieving the alternative winning condition (other than being last one standing, i.e. 10 capitals for 3 turns) for overlords would require either domkilling or harvesting winning neutrals and/or other domkilling overlords?

I'm fine with any way, just want to make clear that everyone's playing by the same rules.

Hm, gotta admit though, if other neutrals' capitol's were free game there probably wouldn't be much incentive for neutrals to fight each other.

EDIT: and the question about what means taking the capital still stands. But thanks for all clarifications. :)

[rdonj]

Sorry about that. For the purposes of this game, taking the capitol means putting it under siege and/or storming it.

However, you bring up a good point w/regards to the victory conditions. I had actually completely forgotten about the 10 capitol victory condition when I gave that answer. Acquiring netural capitols that way sounds extremely unfun to me, and at the moment you would HAVE to acquire at least one capitol in that fashion. So question #2 may be considered unanswered until further discussion can come to an arrangement that is sensible and fair.

I would ask everyone to please bear with me on this. The special rules for this game have had a lot of unintended conseqeunces that have taken a while to bubble to the surface. However once we get this all ironed out I am sure that this will go on to be a unique and, hopefully, rewarding experience for all players.

[Squirrelloid]

Re: taking normal capitols - eventually a normal is going to get killed by another normal. Pushing your dominion onto that territory and taking *that* capitol shouldn't be nearly as difficult on pushing your dominion onto an active player's capitol.

Similarly, Overlords should be encouraged to try to kill off the other overlords as the preferred victory condition - which current game rules definitely do encourage.

[atul]

Re: taking normal capitols - eventually a normal is going to get killed by another normal. Pushing your dominion onto that territory and taking *that* capitol shouldn't be nearly as difficult on pushing your dominion onto an active player's capitol.

Yeah, that was what I was asking, whether taking those neutral-conquered capitals is kosher. And apparently as rules currently stand, it isn't allowed either. If I understood rdonj's answer correctly.

[rdonj]

How about this. You can take a neutral-conquered capitol if you have dominion there, but you still can't conquer their own capitol until all other overlords are defeated. Does that sound reasonable?

[Squirrelloid]

I thought overlords could attack any normal province they could push their dominion into? So a normal capitol they push their dominion into is fair game.

[atul]

Nope, attacking capitals was explicitly banned.

[TwoBits]

So if I get this straight (as it currently goes), if a Normal takes another Normal's capital, he better hope he has some plan on keeping it out of an Overlord's dominion, or he can likely expect an immanent Overlord attack by said Overlord on that capital?

[atul]

I believe the current suggestion is that any capital under Normal rule is vulnerable to Overlord attack only if there's Overlord dominion on the province.

[kianduatha]

On the plus side for the normal nation, though, you might be able to convince other overlords that you are much less dangerous having the capital. At least that might work with the first capital--after that, they might be less helpful.

[Squirrelloid]

Nope, attacking capitals was explicitly banned.

From the concept thread:

"However, they can only attack normal nations or independents if their pretender is in the army or if they have dominion in the normal nation's (or independent's) province (an overlord cannot take a normal nation's capitol unless all other overlords are dead)."

So, if by some miracle all the normal nations are still alive when the 2nd to last overlord bites it, the overlord can start attacking normal capitols provided he meets the other requirements.

Also, they don't need dominion there if their pretender is present (i forgot that).

I don't see the problem with settings as written.

[atul]

Well my problem was when capital was considered no more as a capital (when not in possession of original owner, when original owner is dead, for the whole game). Since people usually talk about X's capitals even when the original nation is gone.

[Squirrelloid]

Well my problem was when capital was considered no more as a capital (when not in possession of original owner, when original owner is dead, for the whole game). Since people usually talk about X's capitals even when the original nation is gone.

Capitol has multiple uses, indeed. When people say X's capitol, and X no longer holds it, they're using it as shorthand for X's former capitol. To actually be a capitol it must meet the definition of capitol (center of government, etc... which seems to mean access to the capitol only recruitables in game).

[rdonj]

I believe the current suggestion is that any capital under Normal rule is vulnerable to Overlord attack only if there's Overlord dominion on the province.

This is correct. Unless someone changes my mind by the end of the day this is how we are going to play it. This will require some rewriting of the rules in order to make sure it remains clear for once the game is started, so once I've decided my decision is indeed final the first post and the game concept thread will be updated appropriately..

Also I may slightly adjust the number of capitols required to win as the numbers given were for the full intended compliment of 24 players. Chances are any changes made would be minor, and largely to account for the lesser quantity of overlords.

[LumenPlacidum]

Ok, since all this is theoretically coming together, can we please have a list of rules that we can reference without looking at two threads and having to delve into the threads for further posts with ideas that may or may not actually be upheld rules? I know I'm confused.

[melnorjr]

I'm in as a normal, if there is still room.

[rdonj]

Ok, since all this is theoretically coming together, can we please have a list of rules that we can reference without looking at two threads and having to delve into the threads for further posts with ideas that may or may not actually be upheld rules? I know I'm confused.

Sorry for the confusion. As I said earlier a rule from the first post of the concept thread is still a rule for this thread unless specifically stated otherwise. However, I will go ahead and put all the rules on the first post of this thread just to make sure everything is clear.


Melnorjr - yes there is still room, your name has been added to the list.

[rdonj]

Okay, the opening post is, once again, updated. I don't believe I left anything out, although it is possible I did. There is still slightly more information in the concept thread's OP that is not in this thread, but not the actual rules. I don't think any pertinent information is missing but if there is something that would like to be added let me know.

Also, I have decided that I will indeed go with the ranked list method of nation selection for normals. Overlords will still be first come first serve. Once all of the overlords have finalized their choices, I would like for each player to give me a list of three nations they would be willing to play. If you do not care what nation you are, one will be assigned to you randomly. If you do not get ANY of your choices, further picks will be handled on a first come first serve basis. This information will be added to the first post of the thread.

[rdonj]

Oh, right, your ranked lists should be pmed to me. Also one of the overlords sent me a ranked list. I was avoiding that to save time, but what the hell, it would be less confusing if just everyone submitted a ranked list.

[namad]

do we pm the ranked lists to you? or post them here?

[Lingchih]

I think the Overlords submit a ranked list, then our nations are chosen, then the others submit their ranked lists. At least, I think this is how it is going to work.

[DomDomDom]

I'd like to join as a normal.
Can normal nations cast globals if all overlords are defeated?

[Hoplosternum]

I would like to play. Although I am fairly likely to miss a turn early on, depending on whether I can get internet access next Saturday.

If this is OK then please sign me up if there is still room.

[rdonj]

do we pm the ranked lists to you? or post them here?

Pm your ranked list to me.


DomDomDom and Hoplosternum - The both of you are just on time. No, normals cannot cast any globals, ever. This game will probably take a while to get going, as we may be using a completely custom map. So it is possible we will not even start until after next saturday. We shall see.

I just have to ask QM now if he can tell me whether he is playing or not, and then I will see if victory conditions will need to be adjusted.

[rdonj]

Okay, all the overlords have sent in their nation choices. However, with 22 players and 4 overlords, the overlords are looking seriously outmanned. I am either going to switch in QM or namad as another overlord before posting the overlord list.

[DrPraetorious]

I can join as an overlord if you're still short. Since everyone else has presumably submitted lists already:
Machaka, Ermor, Marignon, Shinuyama, Arcoscephale, T'ien Ch'i

[rdonj]

Since qm has not responded yet, I find this to be a reasonable solution. I am reasonably satisfied with number of players per team, and will post the overlord nation picks now.

Edit: Alright, Overlords nation picks have been added to the first post. Normals, please pm me your nation picks now. Some of you have already done so, but if you wish to make alterations based on what the overlords have chosen, feel free to do so.

[sansanjuan]

Hope springs eternal. I'll jump in.
-ssj

[rdonj]

I guess having accepted another new player to play as an overlord, it wouldn't really be fair to turn you away. It would have been nice had you joined while signups were officially going on, however. Well, this fills up the game, so I will still have to ask one of the normals to play as an overlord for "team" balance purposes.

[DrPraetorious]

Q: How do you get an overlord capital?
A: Why, you ally with another overlord, of course!

The overlord capitals are worth no more to us than any other capital, *and* we can't (realistically) win unless all the other overlords are dead! Furthermore, we're allowed to attack each-other at will.
Once the game is in motion, consider that Machaka is less of a late-game threat than all of the crazy astral nations (Ally with R'lyeh/Ashdod/Pythium/Marignon? Are you nuts?), so I am a natural choice for any such alliance. Please forward inquiries, proposals and offers of spiritual bondage and eternal servitude to the true God, Knife Bright Insight, He who vanquishes false idols. Note also, my brash arrogance and love of trash talk temper any possibility that I might be a long term threat.
All hail Knife Bright Insight!
I'd like to trade the other Overlords for some astral junk, esp. once I can make hammers.

[Squirrelloid]

I guess having accepted another new player to play as an overlord, it wouldn't really be fair to turn you away. It would have been nice had you joined while signups were officially going on, however. Well, this fills up the game, so I will still have to ask one of the normals to play as an overlord for "team" balance purposes.

Ooh ooh, pick me!

Nah, I doubt I qualify. And I'd have to totally rethink the strategies I was considering...

[rdonj]

Yeah, it'll be either qm or namad. Not that I don't have a certain amount of faith in you, you did well in noobs. But for this game I would prefer someone with slightly more experience. Perhaps in the next game, if people don't hate this one ;) Although maybe someone else should host it, since I have been so wishy-washy.

[DrPraetorious]

Coobe (in spite of low post count) is also fairly experienced.

[coobe]

experienced, but no high skill :) im the laziest dom3 player there is when it comes down to late game

[atul]

Laziest in late game? Bah, I'm competing in that series too.

Yet Another Tidbit: Gate Stone does no good to immobile pretenders. Gah, one more bad idea down the drain.

[rdonj]

QM is an overlord. He will be playing as T'ien Ch'i. Everyone who has already submitted a list to me, if t'ien ch'i was one of your picks you may wish to revise your list.

Everyone else, I will be PMing you shortly.


Also, QM is set on releasing the next version of CBM before this game starts. So hold off on creating pretenders. I also have it on the highest authority that gorgons will be taking a hit in the new version of CBM, so if you are pan, you will want to take this into account.

[rdonj]

Okay, everyone who has not sent me a ranked nation list has now either received a pm from me or an email. The sooner you get your lsits in, the sooner the game can start. Unless QM takes even longer than expected to get the next cbm out ;).

[Lingchih]

Also, QM is set on releasing the next version of CBM before this game starts. So hold off on creating pretenders. I also have it on the highest authority that gorgons will be taking a hit in the new version of CBM, so if you are pan, you will want to take this into account.

Ahh, the poor Gorgon, already nerfed almost to oblivion. So sad to see it nerfed again. Still, doesn't matter to me in this game.

I also take some of the blame for this, since I continued to make CBM 1.5 Gorgon pretenders that were worth their salt.

[Squirrelloid]

And here I'm not sure i've played a nation that actually gets Gorgon as an option...

My impression has mostly been that some pretenders need improvements rather than some are too good. (Ok, maybe PoD is too good). Especially some specific nation pretenders that just really aren't worth it. Also, some path combinations should be more available - why is WE so hard to find, it seems like a logical combination. (And water nations get totally hosed on pretender choices - they need access to more non-W pretenders).

[atul]

Do we get to see the map file before game? If not, is it possible to know which sites will be presearched in overlord lands beforehand? I'm mostly interested in knowing the initial gem income, as it says there will be some extra stuff lying around... or, is that only in the concept thread? Did it make to final game? Might influence pretender design, in addition to the new cbm version.

[rdonj]

Yeah, you will. The magic sites are not decided yet of course, but they will largely be sites that your national mages could have found by searching, with a few outliers scattered in.

[Squirrelloid]

We going to get told which nation we're playing here? I mean, I know a new version of CBM is coming, but I'd like to start thinking about what i'm playing.

[rdonj]

I am still waiting on tegramon and ossa. However, they are taking quite some time to get their picks in. If they don't get their lists to me by the end of today I think we will go ahead and start without them.

[rdonj]

So, if I don't get lists from those two players, I think we can drop an overlord if one of you would prefer to play as a normal nation. I don't think it's necessary for the game, just an option. Although I admit it would be easier to just leave things as they are now.

[LumenPlacidum]

So, can we expect our nation selections soon? Very anxious to learn which of my picks (if any) I'll be getting so I can start really working on a strategy for them.

[atul]

For the record, I want to apologize to rdonj for our constant collective bugging I've been a part of and thank him for all the work he's done thus far to get this thing to this point:

Sorry! Thank you!

[chrispedersen]

Hey Rdonj...

Looking at this from a balance perspective - the victory conditions strongly favor the overlords.

They can attack any normal at their desire, they start with a huge advantage in larger nations, and normals can't cast globals.

[rdonj]

Okay sorry guys, I couldn't get to this before now. I hope you'll forgive me. Nation picks will be up shortly. Chrispdersen sent me a list of ea and la nations. I don't want to keep anyone else waiting any longer so I am going to work out the list now, and if he gets to me before I have finished making it, he'll get a choice, if not he'll have one of two nations available.

It is very possible the overlords have the advantage... but I think it is also very possible the normals have the advantage. I really don't know that I could say for sure who will come out on top. If this were a team game it would be more obvious probably. But since I am letting the players figure out just how to conduct themselves, I personally have no idea how it'll turn out. Hopefully the advantages the overlords get will not just allow them to run all over everyone else.

They can't attack any normal at their desire though. They have to have dominion or have their god in the army. Since I am sure everyone will be spamming dominion in this game I don't know just how easy that will be.

[rdonj]

Nations are posted. Anyone with an asterisk got one of their picks. Anyone without an asterisk, you may feel free to trade nations amongst yourselves. I will note that many people chose the same first couple of nations. A significant number of lists were along the lines of "van, aby, x" to be precise :P. People who picked vanheim and abysia probably would have been well served sending lists longer than 3 nations. I even had two people send me the exact same list.

[rdonj]

For the record, I want to apologize to rdonj for our constant collective bugging I've been a part of and thank him for all the work he's done thus far to get this thing to this point:

Sorry! Thank you!

Thanks :) Hopefully all that bugging me will make for a much better game than it would have been otherwise.

[LumenPlacidum]

Thank you very much, rdonj! Time to get to work building a strategy.

[iainuki]

I'd be open to trading MA Oceania for some other nations. If you'd be willing to help me, please get in touch.

[chrispedersen]

Overlords,
Cmon you guys are the experienced ones. Do you really believe this is even remotely an equitable contest?

Put your judges hat on for a moment. Do you believe the victory conditions are such that a normal nation has even close to the same chance of vicotry condition that an overlord does?

Lets reduce this to simplest cases.

Suppose an overlord chose an awake pretender, good dominion, and fairly horrible scales. With 10 provinces and three forts, at the very least he is able to outproduce a normal nation at least 3:1.

Let alone stealth preachers.

Frankly, the overlords can use the gatestone to teleport 2 away from any starting normal nation. They can use this to deny normals expansion. Once there they just walk into an adjacent province.

Even if it doesn't happen turn 1 - it could certainly happen turn 3.

The victory conditions are fairly meaningless. Even if the overlords were required to eliminate all other overlords to win, it would still be that the overlords would attack normal nations. There is no way an overlord is going to attack a roughly equal overlord when they could instead grab independents or crush normals. It is only after the vast majority of normals or indies are gone that there will *really* be significant chance of conflict betweeen normals.

Personally, I believe that even if the overlords were prevented from attacking a normal until attacked that this would *still* inevitably result in an overlord victory.

I would suggest this, instead. No overlord can attack a normal until he has taken at least one other overlords capitol, he is free to attack any normal that attacks his territory. Still not even remotely fair.. but at least a nod in the right direction.

[namad]

nevermind... arguing is not going to benefit anyone.

[rdonj]

As I said in pm, at this point I would really not make any further changes to the rules. This game needs to start eventually, or players will start to bail. If things don't work out this time, hopefully issues can be identified and fixed for any other games in this style should people still find it interesting.

My main goal with this game was just to do something different and have it hopefully be an entertaining deviation from the normal exactly similar starts that you go through in every other game. Not that that isn't fun, but it can be nice to do things differently once in a while. I want everyone to bear in mind that this is an experimental game and I'm not sure anyone can say for sure how it will turn out. Obviously overlords start stronger than everyone else. But is that enough to keep the other overlords at bay? I've seen a crafty idea or two from normal players about what they might do to hurt an overlord. The game is obviously not going to be completely balanced. I hope that will prove to be part of its charm :).

[Hoplosternum]

Well we new the conditions before we signed up so there is no point complaining about them now :) Although I agree they do favour the Overlords a lot.

I am curious about the diplomacy stance. I don't have a problem with a back stabbing diplomacy game. We all know that diplomacy in this game is not binding and that betrayals don't carry over in to other games. So trust between players is not encouraged :p Yet the whole set up of the game seems to require a great deal of diplomacy to work especially if the normals are to have a chance. So while I don't have a problem with this diplomacy option in games, I am surprised it was selected for this game.

This doesn't mean I want this changed. I signed up with these terms. Just wonder why this was selected. It seems to be aimed at an issue some people have with lazy napping in standard mp games. But this is not a normal mp game....

[atul]

I would think it's partly just from perspective. I as an overlord player see everything that can go wrong for me from turn 2, as well as a normal player sees the game from his point of view. The fact is, we'll have 1 winner and 20+ losers and this can go whatever way. Not being able to step into capital provinces is going to be a HUGE pain.

[Squirrelloid]

Diplomacy should always be machiavellian. Terms get honored as long as it is in both nations best interests to do so. That's what diplomacy *is* in politics and international relations. (Also, non-binding diplomacy stops nations from being compelled into certain courses of action that end up being against their interests).

[melnorjr]

Part of the reason I don't think this will be too gigantically in the overlord favor is that they can't direct that much of their strength at any one normal - they are going to be surrounded by them, and the minute a normal thinks he can take an overlord province and smash a temple, he's gonna do it, cause then the overlord will have that much more trouble fighting him back - and he might just grab a magic site or two in the process, which are at a major premium in this game.

The overlord are strongest of course, but they can only attack you with one army at a time unless their dominion starts taking you over - its on heck of a limitation. a normal stands a reasonable chance of winning if he happens to be near an overlord who is distracted dealing with other normals long enough for him to get a few temples up and prevent the OL from attacking him. Once he does that, he can start taking over other normals till he has his required number of nomral caps, then try and take out a weak overlord for the win. It's possible. And if I recall, he only has to have the OL cap. he doesn't have to hold it.

[rdonj]

Well we new the conditions before we signed up so there is no point complaining about them now :) Although I agree they do favour the Overlords a lot.

I am curious about the diplomacy stance. I don't have a problem with a back stabbing diplomacy game. We all know that diplomacy in this game is not binding and that betrayals don't carry over in to other games. So trust between players is not encouraged :p Yet the whole set up of the game seems to require a great deal of diplomacy to work especially if the normals are to have a chance. So while I don't have a problem with this diplomacy option in games, I am surprised it was selected for this game.

This doesn't mean I want this changed. I signed up with these terms. Just wonder why this was selected. It seems to be aimed at an issue some people have with lazy napping in standard mp games. But this is not a normal mp game....

There are two main reasons I thought diplomatic agreements should not be binding for this game. One, it fits my thematic sense for the scenario. Two, with the victory conditions so low it would be very easy for someone to get a victory without really having to fight properly for it (without getting into that murky situation of people trying to decide whether it's okay to ignore your NAPs if the game is on the line).

And if I recall, he only has to have the OL cap. he doesn't have to hold it.

I guess it's not specifically clear from the first post in this thread, but normals still have to control all their caps for 3 turns. However, instead of an overlord cap they only have to control any one of an overlord's starting forts.

[Gregstrom]

Bad news: My employer is busy making a large number of staff redundant, and I volunteered to be a representative on one of the ensuing consultation groups. After attending the first meeting, it has become apparent that I won't have very much free time over the next three months - I certainly won't be able to start a new game of Dom 3 any time soon.

So, with apologies to everyone here, I'll have to withdraw from the game.

[sansanjuan]

Bad news: My employer is busy making a large number of staff redundant, and I volunteered to be a representative on one of the ensuing consultation groups. After attending the first meeting, it has become apparent that I won't have very much free time over the next three months - I certainly won't be able to start a new game of Dom 3 any time soon.

So, with apologies to everyone here, I'll have to withdraw from the game.

GS,
Sorry to herar that. Hope it works out.
-ssj

[rdonj]

Decision on what this means shortly. Please hold.

[rdonj]

Iainuki has requested to swap from ma oceania to the now-vacant pythium. I have taken pity upon him and granted his request. Oceania is now available if anyone wishes to switch.

[rdonj]

Alright, it seems there will not be an issue with the map having only 5 overlords, so there will be no need to re-shuffle players. The new version of CBM seems to be coming along nicely, I expect it will be ready before the map is, unless QM is detained from releasing it. So you should have at least some opportunity to get used to the changes before the game.

[TwoBits]

Got a map/game-balance related question. As a guy who (perhaps foolishly) requested a 'normal' Water nation, I'm wondering what's to stop the Overlord water nation (in this case, R'lyeh/Baalz -yikes!) from stomping my guts out with impunity?

I mean, if I was a land 'normal', and an Overlord showed up with his pretender on my border, I'd just cry out to all the other Overlords and Normals, "hey, so-and-so is attacking me - this would be a good opportunity to use those Gate Stones, etc.!".

But if, underwater mind you, R'lyeh shows up with a Kraken backed up by a bunch of Mindflayers on turn 5-6 or so (and he can attack anywhere as long as his pretender is along for the ride, right?), what hope have I?

Great, he can't put me under siege, but at that point I only have one province left, and zero help for rescue? How are the Water 'Normals' supposed to defend themselves from the Water Overlord?

[LumenPlacidum]

Do everything you can to equip yourself specifically to counter an early SC? In the case of the Kraken, it seems that just chaffing him to death is quite possible what with the fact that his protection is subpar, doesn't naturally regenerate, and that he's not immune to his own poison. You'd need some sermon of courage spam to fight that way, though. Plus, drowning the enemy in bodies is a way to fight mind hunters in small quantities too. Do you really need to beat him so much as just make him understand that it will be more painful to wipe you out than it will be to create a relatively friendly border that allows the two of you to attack someone else.

It might help to rush early to some important anti-SC spell that you can spam as he tries to munch on your army or to construction so you can spam ethereal crossbows, which are pretty damn frightening to that kind of unit early.

I might be missing something, though.

[kianduatha]

Our main concern is early year one, before we could even get to anti-SC spells(especially with difficult research). But, I do know that a kraken porting into enemy dominion is going to get creamed. Even if there's only a 5% chance of dying, it isn't worth the risk of losing your gatestone. That's of course assuming we aren't all crammed in together, in which case we can try to defend each other.

I presume if an overlord attacks us with his pretender, taking back our territories is not a full declaration of war towards them?

[rdonj]

I presume if an overlord attacks us with his pretender, taking back our territories is not a full declaration of war towards them?

You can't declare war on him, that rule was from an earlier design that turned out to be too complicated to make sense to implement. Overlords can now ONLY attack other overlords, places where they have their dominion, and places where their god is present. Nowhere else.

As to the concerns about the water overlord steamrolling the underwater nations, my only suggestion is to make attacking you less interesting than someone else. How you do that is up to you. I guess if nothing else you may be able to get help from your underwater neighbor if you have one. But I can think of a few other ways you might go about it. We should probably have made water overlords start with less territory/fewer forts than land overlords, just because of the way water works. I don't want to suddenly change that now, so I won't. But it's something to keep in mind for potential future games.

[LumenPlacidum]

Also, since the settings for overlords rely on their pretenders to spearhead assaults, the mobility of those pretenders is a major issue. I would expect to see an amphibious chassis from Baalz, instead of the Kraken.

[rdonj]

Well, really, all the kraken needs to go on land is an amulet of the fish. Not sure that's really a major deterrent.

[Baalz]

Personally, what I would do is throw myself on his mercy and beg to become a vassal. Make it more advantageous for him to leave you alive, maybe offer to pay tribute if it makes the difference. I only partially speak tongue in cheek, I'd expect the best way to play a normal in this game early on is to try and line up a sponsor (or maybe more than one you can play off each other!). Personally, I'd love to have a vassal or two who could come in and storm capitals after I crack them. This is a fun dynamic in a "backstabbing encouraged" game.

[atul]

Damn. And here I was planning on making that exact proposition to the first competent normal nation player I'd encounter in-game with my best "I will make an offer you can't refuse" impersonation. Baalz, by laying out the obvious you're taking out all the fun of terrorizing these people. :p

But yes, the game setup is quite juicy in setting the stage for some classical game theory experiments. Just google for prisoner's dilemma and tragedy of the commons for a few thought experiments.

[Baalz]

The Lord Of The Void Needs No Games To Ensure Terror In Those Who Contemplate His Existence. Foolish Indeed Is The Child Who Believes There Is Less To Fear Once The Monster Emerges From The Shadows.

[edit]
Doh, stupid forums chopped my thematic all caps texts. :(

[atul]

Yeah, the forum auto-correction is real female dog at times. But,

ALL SHALL BURN

works at least.

[namad]

hi, i'm eriu, i'm trading mercenary work for shields :-p

[Squirrelloid]

Hi, i'm jotunheim. I'm selling my services to the highest bidder.

Have a nation giving yours problems? Need some military muscle a little far afield from your current deployment? Overlords - some normal giving you problems and your pretender has better things to do? We're the giants for the job!

Please PM with your proposal and we can discuss payment options. Cash, gems, and items or combinations thereof are all considered viable methods of payment.

Should we end up at war with someone resulting from something other than contractual engagement, we can be bought off for what we're sure will be a modest fee.

[rdonj]

Since CBM 1.6 is out now, we will definitely be using that. If you haven't done so already, feel free to download it and play around with your nation under game settings. I guess that would be a bit harder for an overlord though. Once the game is ready to start I'll make a mod changing the gatestones, until then it really doesn't matter that they are unaltered. With CBM making such sweeping changes and incorporating both no gem gens and parts of UWGIM, we will not be using either mod, for simplicity's sake (there are potential mod clashes with cbm that I don't want to have to deal with).

[chrispedersen]

Hi, i'm jotunheim. I'm selling my services to the highest bidder.

Have a nation giving yours problems? Need some military muscle a little far afield from your current deployment? Overlords - some normal giving you problems and your pretender has better things to do? We're the giants for the job!

Please PM with your proposal and we can discuss payment options. Cash, gems, and items or combinations thereof are all considered viable methods of payment.

Should we end up at war with someone resulting from something other than contractual engagement, we can be bought off for what we're sure will be a modest fee.

I suspect the fee will be... we won't kill you.

[Lingchih]

Let's get it started!

Actually, I can't even see why you others are playing against an Ashdod Overlord, but hey, you gotta play if you want to win, eh?

That said, let's get it going. Ashdod is getting hungry.

[rdonj]

Did thedemon finish the map without telling me? Anyway, the game will begin as soon as I have the map and have time to set things up. So far that has not happened. I've also not had much time to spend on irc as of late so I am a bit out of touch with how the map is coming along. I'll see if I can visit a bit today/tomorrow, depending on how you count.

[DrPraetorious]

Is it just any random map if suitable size, with five predefined empires for the overlords? Or do you need the start locations spread in some special/interesting way?

[rdonj]

Is it just any random map if suitable size, with five predefined empires for the overlords? Or do you need the start locations spread in some special/interesting way?

More or less. I need the predefined overlord empires, a lake for the underwater nations to play in, and I wanted all overlords to have at least one normal nation in between them and all other overlords.

[namad]

i believe thedemon was planning to use the civ4 map editor to help him make it pretty but he was supposed to do it a week ago and i haven't heard from him at all in a week... but he's been getting his forge turns in....

[LupusFatalis]

Vanheim is now considering non-aggression pacts, alliances, trade, and strategic military coordination. PM me with any offers.

[Squirrelloid]

And how will Vanheim view the act of blood sacrificing with respect to treaty members?

[rdonj]

Well, I hate to say this but I think I'm going to have to make the map. I haven't heard from thedemon in quite some time, and I don't think I can wait any longer before getting this done. That said, I'm pretty busy these days. If anyone else is inclined to make the map, it would be a great help. However, if I haven't heard from anyone by tomorrow about it I will just start working on one myself.


I don't have any nice map editors on my computer right now, and I'm not much of an artist. So any map I make will either be a random map, or an alteration of an already existing map if I think I can make one work. Most likely it will be a random map. It will take me a few days, but I should be able to get it done within a remotely reasonable timeframe.

[LupusFatalis]

Sounds good, wish I could help rdonj--never made a map though and I don't really have time to learn, my schedule is a bit full of late.

As far as blood sacrificing: all aspects of treaties will be negotiated on nation to nation basis--last I checked there was no Geneva convention type agreements (game rules aside), and we the followers of Odin are not about to institute such frivolities.

[Squirrelloid]

Aggressive dom-pushing could well be considered an offensive action, which is why Jotunheim inquired.

[rdonj]

Alright, I have selected a random map and set start locations. I have not finished placing overlords yet, but I am releasing the map to the public so that you can see what you'll be working with, and so that it will be easier to spot any province connectivity issues. When I release the final map it will be able to be found in the first post of the thread, along with the mod (also not yet released).

Note: Initially I was going to have all water nations together. However, the limits of the random map creator force certain restraints on me. I will be placing the water overlord in the bottom lake and the normal water nations in the upper lake. Hopefully this won't make the underwater game be too boring.

[rdonj]

Update: I have most of the map commands finished. I am just finishing up start sites for the overlords, then I will run a test game to make sure that everything is working as intended. As soon as that's done, I'll go ahead and make the mod and get everything in order. If all goes well, I will have the game set up before the end of the day.

[rdonj]

Map and mod files attached! I think I have all the bugs worked out... except one. Baalz, I'm sorry but for whatever inane reason, I was unable to give you your final province. So instead I gave you two magic sites in one of them to make up for the missing income. You will just have to take your 10th province and pretend it never happened.

I am putting the game up on the llamaserver now. It shouldn't take me too long.

I did have one error starting the game up one time. Abysia and another nation started at the same starting province, again I have no idea why. Anyway, this only happened once and I was able to create the game properly with none of the nations starting on top of each other. So again, some kind of weird bug that I completely fail to understand. If anyone could tell me why they occurred, well, I probably won't change the map at this point but it would be nice to know.

Overlords: Your gem incomes may be slightly different at the beginning of the game. While I'm pretty sure all of you have the same base income, occasionally an overlord gets lucky and gets extra visible sites along with the known sites I'm giving you. ALL overlords get the same income from the pre-placed sites. So any gem discrepancies are from those extra sites popping up.

Edit: The game is now up. Please send in your pretenders as soon as possible. This game has been sitting for quite a while already. I apologize for the delay, but now everything should be ready, and you can all get on with your game.

Please remember, the mod I've added to the .zip and .rar files is the ONLY mod that should be enabled when you create your pretender. It is more or less a compilation mod of CBM 1.6 and non-unique gatestones. So nothing else is necessary.

[sansanjuan]

Nations joined so far:
Caelum

...


For a minute there I thought I'd won... until Oceania submitted too :envy:

-ssj

[rdonj]

Yeah, I expect it may take a little while to get all nations in.

[atul]

So, does each VP mark designate a capital on that map? I'm just trying to figure out where (if anywhere) I'm allowed to expand within the first 10 turn time...

[rdonj]

The first bunch of VPs are capitols, yes. Each overlord starting fort is a VP as well. VPs aren't going to be used as a victory condition, they're just there to let you know how many a given player controls. If you create a game with the full 21 players, you should be able to see a reasonable amount of area you can expand into in the beginning. It may be a bit tight in certain areas, but each overlord does have some space.

[atul]

Nah, I'm just lazy. Easier to ask whether the crowns are what I believe they are instead of checking out myself. :p

In other words, thanks for the clarification.

[rdonj]

Alright, only 8 of 21 players have submitted pretenders so far. Tomorrow I will send out PMs to get a feel for what sort of state we're in and how much longer this is going to take. I would LIKE to start the game by wednesday. We'll see how that goes.

[Squirrelloid]

I've designed like 15 different pretenders for this game, so i should have it in soon - no need to harass me =)

[namad]

I like to stall just because i assume quickhost for turn1 is on... meaning that even if you set a goal date... if i submit early.. then everyone is early... but i've worked on a revised pretender.. i can't replace it because of the quickhost quickstarting...

but then if EVERYONE does this the game never starts....


is it possible to just set a date for game start but turn the quickhosting feature for it off?

[TwoBits]

Got a family visit going on for the weekend, things should get back to normal on Monday, and I should be able to get a pretender in soon their after (certainly in time for a Wednesday start).

[rdonj]

is it possible to just set a date for game start but turn the quickhosting feature for it off?

Automatic start is disabled.

[rdonj]

We are still waiting on:

QM
coobe
namad
melnorjr
domdomdom
iainuki

[rdonj]

QM is still unavailable and hasn't been able to send in a pretender and I've had one person drop deciding they have too much on their plate. And coobe still hasn't uploaded his. Should I start looking for players to take these spots, or should I wait until QM gets back?

[quantum_mechani]

I am back, but I have been drafted into a new RAND game in the meantime so I'm a bit worried this might be one game to many. I can probably start off with it if you need to get it rolling right away though.

[rdonj]

Well, sooner would be better. And I would rather not have to remake the map. But if you don't think you can handle the game load I can try to see if there is some other way I can fill the spot.

[pyg]

OK, Lingchih convinced me of my need to play in this game. I will take Pythium as a normal if that is still available followed by any other available nation.

ALL SHALL BURN! Also, numerous yet unnamed threats are pending!

[rdonj]

You're right, I'd missed them for the other thread. Yeah, sure, you can join as pythium.

[rdonj]

Okay, we're back up to 20 players. I am not too worried about finding that one last player in all honesty. Therefore, if we do not get another player first, the game will start when all current players pretenders are in.

[rdonj]

The game is FULL. The game will start once all pretenders are in. Victory is life!

[rdonj]

All pretenders are in. The game is a go.

[rdonj]

Arr... we had a slight issue. It seems that pyg started at province #241, which, I believe is Dr P's capitol. Dr p is probably fine, but pyg has no units, no fort, nothing. So we're going to have to restart the game. Further I will need to set pre0-set starts for every nation to fix the problem. I'll let you all know when that's done.

[rdonj]

Okay, I don't think there will be any more delays now. I have uploaded a new version of the map to the server with pre-placed starts for ALL nations. I randomized the starts for normals so even I don't really know where they are. The starts afaik are pretty fair, so unless there is something really broken about one of your starts, this is it and the game is moving ahead. Use the latest file to play the game. Also, I don't think it's necessary to play the game, but if you want it the new map has been posted to the first post of the thread as Overlords2.

[swapoer]

Need some help here.i have tried a whole day to send my 2h file.but the server keep saying no valid 2h file.

[rdonj]

Tell me what you're doing step by step.

[swapoer]

1 ask a friend to zip the trn file and send it to me.cause my phone cant download the trn file properly.some say this thing happen cause the phone dont surpport the trn
2 download the zip through the phone,put it in my computer ,unzip and play
3 end turn,put the 2h in my phone,send it

[rdonj]

Well, can't say I've ever tried to play dominions by phone before. Why can't you just download it with your computer...?

[swapoer]

My computer here dont have net access and i cant find one here.i should return to my normal life at 15 oct.
Even the post is done through my phone.
Can u give me your email address.see if the file send by u make any difference.

[swapoer]

The problem is no more.i send a zip version to my friend who unzip it and send it through computer.it seem my phone has some promble in dealing with file it dont support.

[LupusFatalis]

Anyone know what the VP in Silvania (200) represents?

[rdonj]

The problem is no more.i send a zip version to my friend who unzip it and send it through computer.it seem my phone has some promble in dealing with file it dont support.

Thank god. Well, at least now we know it will work. Thinking back on it now, I remember you said you might have problems playing. Sorry, I was a bit distracted earlier and forgot about that.


Lupus - Umm... I just checked the map and well, unfortunately a typo is what it is. It's SUPPOSED to be province 100 that has the VP, and that is one of the extra overlord start forts. My bad :(

[Lingchih]

This question may have come up before... but I don't feel like reading the whole thread again. How can we be sure that each Overlord is only attacking indies that are in it's Dominion, or with it's Pretender? Is it just the honor system? I myself was just hungrily eyeing a 10 militia defended neighboring prov, when I just happened to notice I had no dom there yet.

[rdonj]

There's no way of knowing really. So yeah, it's pretty much just the honor system. That's another reason I wanted to have a game master in place, to make sure that sort of thing wasn't going on. Well, everyone hated that idea so it was out. You'll just have to police yourselves.

[melnorjr]

I suppose a normal who saw the overlord doing this could screenshot it, but that presents its own problems.

[sansanjuan]

Have you ever
...set your archers to hold and attack instad of your warrior units? :doh:

I guess the archers should be posthumously commended for following orders.


Sheepishly
-ssj

[atul]

Huh, I see R'lyeh is already active on my back yard. Step on it, underwater Normals! (...though I do note Atlantis pretender already getting himself killed...)

And, dear mr "I got my behind handed to me" you know which nation I'm referring to, _MY_ back yard!

[kianduatha]

I'm already stepping on it as hard as I can!

[TwoBits]

Ugh, this game has certainly gotten off to a rollickingly bad start for Atlantis - first the hordes of sharks in my capital, and now this :(

Oh well, I'll game things out, but I doubt I'll waste any(more) time on diplomacy at this point. I'll consider anyone near me an enemy until the end comes (at this point, I double it'll be long in coming though).

[atul]

Could we have the llamaserver turn reminder set to 9 or preferably 12 hours, please? I've noticed the current 6 hours isn't enough when the reminder can come right after I go to sleep or to work, making me forget/miss the turn deadline.

[rdonj]

Oops. Yeah, 6 hours is definitely way too short. I'm not sure about 12... seems like an awful long time for a game still on 24 hour hosting. So I've set it to 10 for now. But the time there is negotiable.

[atul]

24 hours? No wonder these turns seem to be coming one right after another. :)

But, 10 hours is good. Thanks.

[rdonj]

Well, you guys are only on turn 5 ;). Come turn 10 you'll be on 48 hours and I'll go ahead and set the reminder emails to 12 hours.

[TwoBits]

Ho ho ho! I'll somewhat retract my earlier pessimism, as apparently Ancient Krakens die fairly easily :P

Sure, I'm still doomed (but then again, so is Oceania), but perhaps Atlantis may yet prove to be a useful foil for some wise Overlord...

[kianduatha]

Yeah, I was thinking that my Kraken would actually heal his afflictions in time. Apparently not!

[namad]

hai guyz remember me?

I'm in this game too! I'm eriu.... someone wanna diplomacize me? you can pm me and irc me and ;) ;)

lol!

[LupusFatalis]

Lack of diplomacization ehh? Doesn't sound like a good sign given your location. ;) Best of luck.

[namad]

is it just me or are lots of the vps not at all corresponding to the capitals?

[rdonj]

10 of the VPs are in those initial extra forts the overlords got. So it shouldn't just be you. Except one of those VPs ended up not being where it was supposed to be due to a typo I made while setting up the map.

[namad]

so far i've seen 2vps that were indies... and i assume many more are

[rdonj]

Huh... I don't know what that is, I was pretty sure only the one vp got misplaced. Can you tell me the province numbers?

[Lingchih]

I will be out of town and away from internet access from Oct 23 - 25 for a funeral. Could we make it a long weekend pause for this game please? If not, I will look for a sub, or just stale a turn.

I'll be back Monday morning, the 26th.

Thanks

[DrPraetorious]

Is the game off entirely?

I was the last holdout, sorry I'm taking so long to do my turns. Anyway, I realized I hadn't sent in and mailed it off, but llamaserver doesn't seem to ahve noticed...

[rdonj]

The llamaserver has been offline for most of yesterday, and I don't know how much of today. That said, it looks like it's operational again, so I think turns can be submitted now.

Lingchih - Yeah, I'll postpone hosting long enough for you to get back, you won't have to stale.

[Lingchih]

Lingchih - Yeah, I'll postpone hosting long enough for you to get back, you won't have to stale.

Thanks much rdonj.

[LumenPlacidum]

Has anyone gotten turn 13? It seems like llamaserver hosted turn 12, but didn't send anything out. Did it lose our e-mail addresses?

[sansanjuan]

Turn 12 on the 18th was the last I got.
-ssj

[Lingchih]

Yeah, Llamaserver is kind of dead. Give it a few days. Llama will probably get it running again over the weekend.

[rdonj]

Many/all llamaserver games are experiencing difficulties at the moment. I am playing 3 myself that are in the exact same state as overlords, and another that is yet to start that I assume will be similarly affected. Basically we all just have to wait it out.

[rdonj]

As per the llamaserver thread, what once was broken now appears to be fixed. If you haven't received your turns yet, go to the game page on the llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Overlords) and request a resend for your nation. Everything should be working now.

[Lingchih]

OK, I'm sorry I had to take some time off to attend a funeral. I'm in now though. And two of you are not? C'mon guys, you gonna take until Friday?
Sheesh.

[LupusFatalis]

Yeah, it seems like the later the time limit is set the later people will post--despite turns taking <20 minutes still. Granted I know I suck, so perhaps my planning simply isn't nearly as rigorous and in-depth. ;)

[rdonj]

Yeah, that is an unfortunate truth that I am proving in a certain game of mine. Anyways, once this turn hosts you'll be back at 48 hours and it shouldn't be nearly so bad. I was just hesitant to set the timer back after llamabeast bumped up the hostings for all the games. It's just not a good idea to subtract time from hosting.

[sansanjuan]

Caelum's AAR is... "AAAAARRRR!" :hurt:

The combined might of R'yleh and Vanheim have scattered my elephant horde and smashed my winged army. I must admit I was taken completely off guard by the skinshifter rush. I was quite certain all us wee folk would gang up on neighborhood Overlords first... Anyway, Good luck to all in this game.

-ssj

[Lingchih]

Sorry to see you go, San. Good game.

And, I would once again caution anyone about going into Ashdod lands, or into Ashdod dominion.

[Squirrelloid]

There seems to be some normal nations that feel war with TC is a winnable proposition. Its not. In addition to our own vast armies, we have certain allies who are not to be scoffed at.

On the other hand, I am leading the research race, and no small fraction of that is construction. I have quite a diversity of magical paths. Trading with me could be of great benefit to any nation.

TC is willing to live in peace with its neighbors if they will live in peace with us (at least most of them... a certain nation has earned our ire and will not be spared). The emperor gives those nations this chance to forsake this foolishness and ally themselves with us.

[LupusFatalis]

It was fun, Sansanjuan, you put up a good resistance all things considered. And I'm sorry about the rush.

[atul]

There seems to be some normal nations that feel war with TC is a winnable proposition. Its not.

....

On the other hand, I am leading the research race, and no small fraction of that is construction.

Uhhh... Concentrating on Construction on a nation without recruitable thug commanders means just banking on the future and relying on momentary peace.

In other words you've just admitted that if anyone is going to find you a paper tiger at any moment, that moment is the current one. :-P

Just saying.

Good thing we Marignonians are both peaceful and walking around with a big stick, right?

[pyg]

TC is willing to live in peace with its neighbors if they will live in peace with us (at least most of them... a certain nation has earned our ire and will not be spared). The emperor gives those nations this chance to forsake this foolishness and ally themselves with us.

Crazy Jadros says "bring it" chubby!

[Squirrelloid]

There seems to be some normal nations that feel war with TC is a winnable proposition. Its not.

....

On the other hand, I am leading the research race, and no small fraction of that is construction.

Uhhh... Concentrating on Construction on a nation without recruitable thug commanders means just banking on the future and relying on momentary peace.

In other words you've just admitted that if anyone is going to find you a paper tiger at any moment, that moment is the current one. :-P

Just saying.

Good thing we Marignonians are both peaceful and walking around with a big stick, right?

I said i had a decent amount, not that I had concentrated on it. I think you'd find my research is quite diverse.

[kianduatha]

Alas, I shall be out of the state Friday-Sunday, and most probably will require an extension for next turn.

[rdonj]

I'm really only supposed to give you guys 4 hour extensions for this game. I made an exception for Lingchih because he was going to a funeral and all that craziness with the llamaserver was going on. So I would suggest looking for someone to play one turn for you, if possible. But if there isn't any objection to it I guess I could grant you a longer extension. That rule is sort of a holdback from when I was considering trying to make this into a mega game.

[kianduatha]

Given how people have been slow on inputting turns, I'm not terribly worried. There'll probably be a turn Saturday, and I can make the 48 hour clock on that one. Yeah, don't even worry about it on second thought. It would just give another excuse for people to delay.

[namad]

so maybe if we just turn quickhost off for this one turn that will solve the issue?

[rdonj]

so maybe if we just turn quickhost off for this one turn that will solve the issue?

I've gone ahead and done that. Someone please remind me in this thread or a pm when the turn hosts.

[namad]

anyone want to trade me some non fire gems for my fire gems?


pm or ingame or irc


i'm namad on the forums eriu in game and on irc i'm namad5

[swapoer]

Well because a mistake of TC, the god of TC is dead now.And i am not supposed to use the gatestone i acquired, am i right ?
I am currently at war with TC.Any nation at war with TC should take full advantage of this accident.

[rdonj]

Feel free to use it. You have pried an artifact of great power from the hands of a god. Enjoy your reward.

[namad]

anyone want to forge me any E or S items and be paid in A or N gems? (or F)

[atul]

I would assume that in general E and S seriously outweight the other gem types. Guess if you paid some serious premium...

And here's to the fallen mighty:

Dun dun dun!

[namad]

looking to trade fand gems for es gems or es items

[namad]

looking to trade F/D gems for W/E gems or S-forging

[TwoBits]

Gah, I'm glad that's over. This game started bad, and then went down hill from there :p

Good luck to the rest of you all.

[namad]

anyone want to trade me non-fire gems for fire gems?

[namad]

also i'd be into getting some dwarf hammers in exchange for


fdan gems or gold for an forged items or a combination of those

[DrPraetorious]

Ugh, I really should've taken fortune and a dormant pretender. Especially since he died on turn 1.

Okay, I'm in a war-to-the-death and I need money. Fat sacks of it. I have a variety of gems which I'm not likely to be able to spend, so anyone who needs gems, I'm willing to sell them for 20 gp each.

I've got 8A, 70E, 44D and 69N.

[namad]

drp your pm inbox is full...

either get on irc or clear some inbox space!

also i'd like some earth gems

[Squirrelloid]

I have 32d gems up for trade. I'm looking for e,s,a gems in approximately that order of desirability. PM me or find me on the dominions IRC channel to negotiate a trade.

[namad]

wtt FD gems for ESN type gems

[pyg]

I will not be able to play the 24-27 of this month so if we are not going to have a holiday break I can maybe get a sub... or maybe Squirrelloid can take my capital before then ;)

[namad]

wtt fire gems for non-fire gems willing to give slightly favorable ratio

[DrPraetorious]

tsk. tsk. tsk. With a little patience, Ermor would probably have had my lands without a fight.

As it is, Ermor has betrayed me (pretend surprise!). Good show! Hardly anyone ever treaches in this game.

That said, I retain a sizeable gem stockpile and would like to purchase items to use in my defense. I can use earth, fire, death or nature boosters, spell penetration or accuracy-boosting items. I will pay a 50% markup, and if any items survive (which is likely, but cannot be guaranteed), I will return them to the ones from whom they were purchased - preferentially to anyone who would accept flexible gem types in payment.

[atul]

Is llamaserver down? I just sent in my turn but got no reply. Also, it would appear that there's some lag:

Last updated at 19:15 GMT on Sunday November 22nd
Current time: 20:10 GMT

Anyway, going to bed soon, so a delay would be appreciated if my turn just doesn't turn up when llamaserver wakes up. Thanks.

[DomDomDom]

I have same problem. Turn is sent but no reply from llammaserver.

[namad]

omg omg omg i'm sooooo sorry I had no idea that would happen ... I can't believe allied armies caused that

[Lingchih]

It appears the turns got in OK, there were just no confirmation emails sent.

[namad]

I'm wondering if I could get a 12hour delay I didn't finish my turn yet and I've got to go somewhere for the day. If it's not granted I should be able to submit my incomplete turn though.

[rdonj]

I can give you a 4 hour delay but no more than that as per the OP. I hope that will give you the chance to spend slightly longer on your turn.

[DrPraetorious]

I am now Dr. DrPraetorious, PhD. And I have a hangover.