MRAPs

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

8830Good Day All,
On the next update is it likely that we might see the MRAP? In service since 2004 and numbering around 3-4000 vehicles in it's various varients it would be great to see the new larger 11 passenger model available. With advertised speeds of 65mph on hard surfaces and 45-50mph over rough terrain it's a can do vehicle which can carry an auto operated gatling or 50 cal. (It's being tested to operate with other weapons such as a 40mm) and still provide a high survibility to both crew and passengers.

The next deal with crews using an Abrams tank as an example:
1. Surviving crew forced to disperse, could they not be integrated into the replacement tank crew thus causing a slight increase to the new tanks moral or exprience modifiers? Or would this be to big of a software headache?

2. And more important to me, when changing from Abrams to an improved one, let the old tank go to the depot but let me keep my crew. Normally we're only talking about improved guns and systems that are trained on in the field. If this is already being done and I'm just missing this I apoloize in advance.:doh:

As an update to my 10-04-08 post on U.S. Patriot transport, I went back to check and none of the available ground transport units will carry the Patriot missile.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

[Marcello]

The next deal with crews using an Abrams tank as an example:
1. Surviving crew forced to disperse, could they not be integrated into the replacement tank crew thus causing a slight increase to the new tanks moral or exprience modifiers? Or would this be to big of a software headache?

2. And more important to me, when changing from Abrams to an improved one, let the old tank go to the depot but let me keep my crew. Normally we're only talking about improved guns and systems that are trained on in the field. If this is already being done and I'm just missing this I apoloize in advance.:doh:


I don't understand what you mean here. Are you referring to upgrade during campaigns?
To the best of my knowledge crew experience is already retained by surviving crews and during upgrades.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Marcello,
Good Morning!
Sorry I didn't explain in more detail but was in the wind down mode from work. To #1. of my crew question: I know surving crew that are unmolested will return after the battle is over in the "repair" phase of a campaign game. However I don't believe this happens when due to ememy fire (or friendly air or arty) the crew takes further casualities and the surviving crew are forced to "disperse".
Concerning #2 I don't believe (and as stated on the first post I could be wrong here.) That again while in the "repair" phase when I "change" to a newer version of an Abrams for example that the current crew mans the the newer version Abrams I just upgraded to. I know this isn't feasible if changing from say a Bradley to an Abrams but should be allowed from Abrams to Abrams so as not to lose the crews exprience level. Again this is in the campaign mode. Hope this helps and thank you for your reply!
Pat

[Suhiir]

Good Day All,
On the next update is it likely that we might see the MRAP? In service since 2004 and numbering around 3-4000 vehicles in it's various varients it would be great to see the new larger 11 passenger model available.

The MRAP is in the USA/USMC OOB's now.


The next deal with crews using an Abrams tank as an example:
1. Surviving crew forced to disperse, could they not be integrated into the replacement tank crew thus causing a slight increase to the new tanks moral or exprience modifiers? Or would this be to big of a software headache?

Game engine limitation. When a crew is dispersed the "unit" is destroyed. The game tracks units not individual soldiers.


2. And more important to me, when changing from Abrams to an improved one, let the old tank go to the depot but let me keep my crew. Normally we're only talking about improved guns and systems that are trained on in the field. If this is already being done and I'm just missing this I apoloize in advance.:doh:

The crew does transfer to the new tank when you upgrade. But, they lose some of their experience and morale in the process. How much is variable, but the loss isn't usually so much that they become less skilled then a brand new crew would be. Think of it this way...the crew was use to their old vehicle and knew where everything was and how it worked. Now they have a new vehicle but are still use to the old one, so while they may be very skilled they will not operate as effectively with the new vehicle as they did with the old one until they get use to it.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Suhiir,
Thank you for clearing up the crew question. I understand all and maybe I'm playing to hard to have missed the crew transfer issue to upgraded units.
On the MRAP I'll look again but I only download from the "official" patches (current to 4.5). Will check on it now.
Have a great day!
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

:confused:Follow up to MRAP, Checked my v4.5 "Encyclopaedia" the MRAP isn't in there.

[hoplitis]

USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

:banghead OK, here I go again! First I've only downloaded the "official" patches to my 1st Edition CD, ALL the patches through 4.5 are loaded (And in order.). I've rechecked MY Encyclopaedia several times in the last 3-4 weeks since watching "LOCK N' LOAD" with the Gunney that featured the MRAP/Cougar. I've even generated a handful of campaign games dated from various time periods 2004-2010 and it's just not available to me on MY game. If the patch isn't coming from the developers it's NOT getting downloaded to this computer, it goes to my job, but this is not meant to insult the people out there who take the time to make the game better for others. So PLEASE if the MRAP/Cougar is on the "base" game or was in one of the patches you need to give me more info as to how it is listed or what patch it was on so I can reload if needed. I have various Styrkers out the ... and the M98(?) FOX for the newer platform APC's and that's all.
Thanks again for your time but I need more "Then it's there trust me". :shake:
Pat

[Mobhack]

1) As others have explained already, the MRAP vehicles are already available in the USMC OOB. See units 506-508 in that OOB. Not currently in the USA OOB, but you can use the allies function to purchase.

2) I looked at the patriot. That has a ridiculously high load cost such than no vehicle (or the landing barge) can carry it. Area SAM load costs will need to be reviewed this winter's change cycle.

Fix: Mobhack it (and any other area SAM that is not a vehicle like the S-400) to weight cost 20. Not 99+.

cheers
Andy

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Andy,
Thank you for clearing this up. An earlier reply indiciated the MRAP was available on the USA inventory already and to be honest I haven't used the USMC in this game. In the future I'll use the allie function - thank you! I'll assume you read my "update" post on the Patriot Transport issue and the importance of the
M983 Tractor to make the system work. Will try to figure out how to use the MOHACK to make the load change if not, hope the info provided will help towards the next patch. After all Winters not that far off! Many thanks again! And good night/morning!
Pat :D

[Suhiir]

1) As others have explained already, the MRAP vehicles are already available in the USMC OOB. See units 506-508 in that OOB. Not currently in the USA OOB, but you can use the allies function to purchase.

cheers
Andy

Swore I saw it in some other OOB besides USMC...Iraq maybe?
((Not at home so can't check))

USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

*chuckles*

[Imp]

Concerning #2 I don't believe (and as stated on the first post I could be wrong here.)


Dont take as gospel but vehicle crews in a campaign work like this.
They gain any experience from the battle then if upgrade/switch vehicles the following happens.
To same type of vehicle as in tank to tank minor exp loss as its new equipment.
To a difrent type of vehicle bigger exp loss
If the vehicle is destroyed the game still checks think fairly random if enough crew survived & there is a chance they do & transfer to the new vehicle.
Same applies to all units change to a diffrent unit type they take a small experince loss. The bigger the diffrence in unit type the bigger the loss, for instance switching a squad to a vehicle or SAM unit.
Hope that helps

[DRG]

The Cougar/ HEV/ MRAP is on the list to add to the US OOB

For now you can "borrow" them from the Marines

Don

[Suhiir]

The Cougar/ HEV/ MRAP is on the list to add to the US OOB

For now you can "borrow" them from the Marines

Don


Just like the US Army borrowed LAV's from the USMC during Desert Storm :)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just started a 21 game generated campaign USMC vs Russia/Iran/Russia June 2009 - Nov. 2010. Just curious, will the newer 2 crew 11 personel 6x6 MRAP (and more capable.) I brought up in my original post be available to the game in the future? I believe the History Channel show "Lock n Load" expects it to be fielded by mid 2010 for both USA and USMC and aillies. Also will we be able to buy them by the section or platoon as you can with the MRAP 4x4's in the game now? Currently the USMC MRAP 6x6 (10 Per.) is tied to an organic light engineer team in the game.
Concerning the Patriot transport issue I both respectfully disagree that no unit can transport the Patriot (except currently in the game.) and kindly would refer you to my "update" post I submitted concerning the ground transport of the US Patriot Missile and the systems dependency on the Tractor to provide the launchers power.
With Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Just started a 21 game generated campaign USMC vs Russia/Iran/Russia June 2009 - Nov. 2010. Just curious, will the newer 2 crew 11 personel 6x6 MRAP (and more capable.) I brought up in my original post be available to the game in the future?

Isn't that what I said three posts ago ???

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Sorry for the confusion thought you were just shifting over the USMC ones in the game (current 6x6 holds 10per.) w/o including the newer 6x6 I originally mentioned.:doh:
Pat
"In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

[gila]

Your brain is going too fast.

He said it will be added next patch friend!

[gila]

USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

*chuckles*

Like your new avatar Suhiir, a devil fairy cute but bet it packs a serious punch:p

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

8829GILA,
I'll give you that, working second shift 2-10/or 3-11 EST and it taking another hour to get home after downloading, the winding down process can take awhile before I finally crawl into bed. This morning that was at 0730 (Thank God these are my off days.) it was a well fought battle with the AI but not worth the price paid this day. Anyway this is why I already have so many thanks and "sorrys" out there compared to my posts. I do appreciate all that is done for the game and gamers. But most importantly to those that check my posts and take the time to reply I THANK YOU and DO APOLISE for any past or future issues. I like what I do in my military retirement but the job is what the job is and all that comes with it! By the way any room for submarines in this game!?! To all have a great day!!
With Warm Regards to All,
Pat:yawn:

[Lt. Ketch]

8829GILA,
...the job is what the job is and all that comes with it!

Been there, done that. Try not to do it, doesn't always work.

By the way any room for submarines in this game!?!

Yes, it's called the "exit" key. If you hit it and never come back to the game, just say that you had a boomer nuke the site with an ICBM and everybody is dead :)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

LT.,
I agree about the job and the exit key, it would make things to easy especially when the AI is playing you tough. Better to go down fighting and learning from it then to lose face. My last boat here had a big exit button.
Pat8848

[Suhiir]

USMC ORBAT
The "Cougars" are there alright!
Suhiir knows THAT orbat, believe me! :D

*chuckles*

Like your new avatar Suhiir, a devil fairy cute but bet it packs a serious punch:p

She seemed appropriate ;)

[gila]

8829GILA,
By the way any room for submarines in this game!?! To all have a great day!!
With Warm Regards to All,
Pat:yawn:

Launch nuclear weapons on such a small maps we are playing here??

Then whats left?Or who?:rolleyes:

I really question using B-52's accuracy with HE until after the 90's.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

8850Come on now the whole "nuke" thing was just a joke to lighten things up at the end of the post.
V/R
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good Evening!
Thought you might want to see what's here that's new and what could be coming in the next couple of years or sooner. Everyone seems to scrambling to either get or improve the MRAP's they have or both. A newer class (M-ATV) is now available to the USA made by Oshkosh and Plasan North America (for advanced armor tech.). Oshkosh has been awarded a contract by the DOD for the USA of an order for 2,444 units with potential to reach 10K units. They will be heading to Afghanistan by the end of this year, 45 were on hand already which the army took delivery of. Though not mentioned seems to me it's going to replace the Hummer for GP use with those numbers, pictures follow.
8885 8886

Next is BAEs (of South Africa) RG35 crew 2 with a 15 passenger capacity. Tested to climb up to a 60 degree incline. No buyers yet but expected to be tested by UK at the end of the year or early 2010, pictures follow. :cool:
8887 8888

Finally, Universal Engineering's (UE) RANGER crew 2 with either
4 to 6 passenger capacity with modular construction. Available in 4X4, 6X6 and 8X8 versions. No buyers yet though UK interested, UE is a private British firm, picture follows.
8889

RG35 and RANGER meet Level 4 A/B mark as set by STANAG 4569 for MAX. protection in Class (Anti-Tank Mines, Shaped Charges Etc.). Both about 550HP, 115km (70mph?)on road with a 1000km range
(550mi?). Sources Defence Update and US DOD sites.

V/R
Pat

[Lt. Ketch]

8850Come on now the whole "nuke" thing was just a joke to lighten things up at the end of the post.
V/R
Pat

I would like to see the mushroom cload on my screen though.

Nice pictures Fastboat. I'm looking for a new car. Do you think the dealership would have one of those for under 10 grad? :p

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

LT.,
You'll be a little short! The M(RAP)-ATV will cost you 73.3K, I guess that's a bargain considering the Hummer 1 civilian version cost 100K when it was available. The more I dig into this the more I'm finding the major effort being put into the MRAP by various countries. Also there appears to be the same effort being put into new APC designs. A lot of joint venture stuff going on out there. But APC development will need to be a new thread. Hey maybe I can go there myself (Great there he goes again!:rolleyes:)!?!
Pat
:)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good Morning!
This is the latest off the drawing board vehicle that might make into the game at some point hopefully. This vehicle falls into if you will the "lightweight" category of MRAPs with all the same design characteristics. Designated, Lightweight Protected Mobility Vehicle (PMV-L), THALES Australia and PLASAN SASE of Israel have teamed together to build the HAWKEI which has its roots in the Bushmaster vehicle. Australia's' military has bought 1300 units which will be field by 2013 to replace the military's entire Land Rover fleet. The HAWKEI will be available to buyers outside Australia. Boeing Australia is working on new logistic systems to support the HAWKEI. Picture follows:

8916

Postscript: CBS Evening News I recorded while at work ran a story on the increased troop request when they showed a shot of
2 M-ATV's in Afganistan. Please see post above on the M-ATV.
Sources: Defence Update and CBS News.

[Imp]

the "lightweight" category of MRAPs


:D :D :D
For taxis most of these are incredibly heavy so much so that most bridges are unusable. From what I have read this weight & the fact it is high up due to mine protection means offroad performance is severly limited, already been quite a few roll over accidents with them. Perhaps in game should be given 2WD possibly 4WD for "lightweights" move rates to represent this.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just wanted to provide more info on the HAWKEI by THALES. Can carry six passengers at plus 110km/h (60-65mph?) all info seems to be "coy" about the speed, have seen this on other sites besides my named sources. Info also seems to indicate fully loaded at top speed a range of 1000km (550mi.?) can be achieved. Have found no info concerning any issues about top heaviness or rollovers. It would be at this point important to note that every MRAP AND PMV-L I've found are designed for the present and future battle field commander, in short they are fully battle field integrated (BFI) and have separate on-board power systems to support those BFI systems these are not your Willy's Jeep or first gen Hummers. This info from articles in the last 24-48hrs. Sources: AussieDigger.com (ADF Active Duty and Retiree site) and DefenceTalk.com. Also YouTube has a clip, I didn't watch. Better picture follows: 8924

Good Night and Have a Better Tommorrow!
V/R
Pat :yawn:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just wanted to clarify, though I know this hasn't been brought up (THANK YOU!) because I think everyone understood my meaning, I'll be using Battlefield Management System (BMS) which seems to be a more accepted military and industry term. Sorry if my use of Battlefield Intregated System (BFI/BFIS) caused any issues.
V/R
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good Day!
British MOD replacing Mastiff "1" (A variant of the USMC Cougar.) with the Mastiff 2. With lessons learned in Afghanistan MOD has determined that the Mastiff wasn't meeting all the mission requirements due to the conditions encountered in Afghanistan. Mastiff 2 was designed to be better integrated with British forces and arrived in Afghanistan in June 2009 with 300 units currently in service. Though available in other variants, its primary purpose is as a Patrol protection vehicle. Manufactured by Force Protection; integration by NP Aerospace, the Mastiff 2 features a higher ground clearance of 15in. w/bigger axles and suspension system. Also it has driver and weapons thermal imagining with on-board BMS. Carries a fuel tank fire suppression system and increased internal armor protection. Crew 2 w/6 passengers, 4x4 w/330HP CAT C-7 Diesel, Spd. 105km/h 65mph, Rng.966km 600mi. Arm. 7.62 GPMG, w/12.7mm HMG or 40mm GMG in a remote operated turret. Pictures:
901390149015
Source for all material: army-technology.com
Good Night with Regards!
Pat:yawn:

[thatguy96]

Just to be clear on this, the Mastiff is a Force Protection Cougar variant. These vehicles were bought as COTS items and that name was not given to them by the USMC. That's the name they have always been marketed under by Force Protection (there's some issue with the Typhoon nomenclature, but if this did exist, it didn't last very long). Mastiff, and now Mastiff 2 are names applied to subvariants of the pattern tailored to British needs, just as the USMC and US Army have a number of Cougar subvariants in service. The British were also investigating a 4x4 subvariant, referred to as the Ridgeback, and Force Protection's new Tactical Support Vehicle Cougar variant as the Wolfhound.

More info:
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/fighting-vehicles/1483.aspx
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/mrap-var.htm

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The South African Army (SAA) under Project Sepula is looking to replace the CASSPIR and MAMBA with the RG-35 MRAP by 2012. This would mean to BAE South Africa an order of 1,232 units to outfit SAA's 4 regular and 6 reserve Infantry Battalions. It is likely the order will be increased to further augment 1 regular and 3 reserve Internal Stability Battalions (ISB) as well.
BAE will offer a 4x4 RG-35 variant as well. New Pictures:
9046 9047

Source for info and pictures: army-technology.com

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just a quick update Osh Kosh has just delivered it's 1000th
M-ATV as reported by army-technology.com. Lots going on in the MRAP world but will do my best with this and APC's. Thanks!!
Pat
Happy Holidays to ALL!:):happy::)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good Morning!
Next up the SandCat. Designed by PLASAN of Israel to replace the AIL Storm jeeps of the IDF, it was relaunched at EUROSATORY Show in 2008 as a brand with OSHKOSH Defence.
It's built on a comm. FORD 550 chassis w/a FORD 6.4L diesel with duel fuel tanks TC of 120L, 325hp @ 3000rpm w/ an ALLISON 2000 Auto Trans. Max Speed 75mph/120km/h. Payloads by variant Utility 2,109kg/Crew 5, Transport 1,814kg/Crew 8 and Special Ops (SOV) 2300kg/Crew 4. Features V-Hull, full crew advanced suppression seating for mine blast etc., 5 zone fire suppression system for the crew and engine compartments, fuel cells,wheel wells and exterior hull. Superstructure has three layered armed panels, ceramic outer tiles, middle wall and inner SPALL Liners throughout for fragmentation protection. Also available is a heavier "B" armor package that is crew applied in the field. Fully loaded it also has a 18in. vertical climb/clearance rate w/39 degree side slope man.
Current interest British Army poss. 400 units under the LPPV Program. ADF 121 UNITS under "OVERLANDER" Phase 4 program and the Dutch unspec. # for their Wheeled Vehicle Replacement Program (WVRP). As always:
9241 9242 9243
And no this is NOT the USA/USMC M-ATV.
ALSO as a side note the RANGER (posted earlier) is undergoing validation testing w/ the "BA" in Dorset UK.
Sources: Pri. army-technology.com (and photos) Sec. defence-update.com
Have a good night!!
Pat:yawn:

[Suhiir]

Last I checked the USA/USMC M-ATV was going nowhere in a hurry.
One of the main reasons they want them is because these days most of HUMMERs are being armored, and of course they're too wide to fit in most current medium helos so they need something smaller and lighter.
But, of course, a vocal faction insists they need to be armored, which makes them to heavy to do the job they're intended for.
So as it stands, while the M-ATV may still be in development, the USMC at least, has no real interest in them.

[thatguy96]

Committing to buy 6,500 vehicles sounds like at least someone has an interest in them (even if its only Oshkosh heh). The first 2 vehicles arrived in Afghanistan in September. By that point DoD had issued contracts for a little over 5,000 M-ATVs.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Here's another article from logistics command about M-ATV:
http://www.dla.mil/DLAPublic/DLA_Media_Center/TopStories.aspx?ID=500. And yes OSHKOSH is contracted over the 6500 unit mark within the last month to include a contract through the Army that will lead to the Marines getting about 1,100 units and the Air Force and "my" Navy just under a 100 units each. Again OSHKOSH did deliver it's 1000th unit last month. As pointed in this article and MANY other places "my" (Since I ultimatley still get paid by him in my current position and the taxpayer.) SECDEF has said the MRAP and M-ATV programs represents the largest design to production since WWII. Powerful stuff and don't we all wish we owned some OSHKOSH stock now...well better a year or two ago anyway!?!:doh:
Pat

[Suhiir]

MmmmK - my info was out-of-date, I stand corrected.
Thanks!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Everything's good! There's just so much info out there I (we) end up "reacting" to it. This was good for me in that it showed me that my 3 primary sources were up to date, ahead of many others and accurate when cross referenced. I researched the sources and have only felt comfortable in the recent few months to start putting info out here (hence the year or so gap since I first posted.). It's not about who's right or wrong, or who can pile it on, personally I just want to be as accurate as possible, be informative, have some fun and hopefully see some of this equipment get into the game as time allows. The inputs I've recieved from some I hope I've learned from as I know my initial MRAP and Patriot battery posts caused some...:re:,:rolleyes:and:banghead as they did for me to. So I'll do the best I can and someday at the WinSPMBT retirement home we can sit around and have some good :cheers: though I have to admit I'm pretty uncompromising in my tastes there, must be that Irish/German stock in me!?! Yes Don and Andy I'll get back on topic, is it just me or does it seem like they're just everywhere!?! Have a good night all and a great weekend!!
Pat

[DRG]

Normally I copy down everything like this for the erros list to investigate but this thread I didn't becasue it was generating so much info. I have added somethings ( the RG35 for one ) but it's looking more and more like the existing work is going to take me right up to the release date in March.

What I need now is a consise list, by nation of every one of these vehicles that is KNOWN to be in production or in service. I don't need things that are on the drawing board that might/maybe be produced in 5 years.

Nation / Name of vehicle / Indroduction date / number of men it will carry / link to photograph and further information

so


South Africa / RG35 / 2012 / 14 men / LINK (http://www.armyrecognition.com/united_kingdom_british_army_wheeled_vehicle_uk/rg35_bae_systems_protected_multi-purpose_fighting_vehicle_british_army_united_kingd om_technical_data.html)

That will speed the process considerably

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Understand, keep items at "KISS" for upcoming patch. At your convenience, can you by the numbers just give me quick answers to the following:
1. Understand RG-35 is in (thanks!), do you need me to go back and resubmit the other equipment I've already posted as well on the MRAP/APC threads?
2. Is Singapore going in? Because of Terrex and others.
3. Plan to focus on the 2009-2012 time frame, is this acceptable to reduce load on all concerned or go further out for equipment to be fielded only within the time frame?
4. What's my deadline for submissions?
For your info will be on vacation away from home 1-9 Feb. Will post to my related threads and will suspend until the deadline my longer posts so you know there's something there for you or others that might be assisting you.
Thanks!
Pat

[DRG]

1- What I need is a simple list like I described of the "for sure" vehicles to save a lot of time I really don't have to spare ATM

2- There is NO chance Singapore is going into the game. What you see now is what you get

3, see #1, I just want the "for sures"

4- the sooner the better but I still have 45 pages of items to get through plus a major comb through of the weapons data so I'm not at a loss for things to do. I don't "need" this until Mid Feb.

Like I said, I just need someone to comb through this thread and set down a nice simple list like I suggested and it will help me get though this faster. Given all I have to do there is always a chance only a few will get into this release but that all depends on what's left to do by the beginning of March. By then I will NOT have 8 + hours a day available to work on this



Don

[thatguy96]

As of December 2009, the number of MRAP variants and subvariants in service or being developed for the US military stood at 28, including the new M-ATV. The links provided are to the Globalsecurity.org site's main pages on the variants in question. There are additional links on those pages to information on the programs. I try to keep them more or less up to date. Any errors in the information here are my own.

The US Army's Program Executive Office Combat Support and Combat Service Support had been designated the joint program office for the MRAP program. Of the systems listed, only the M-ATV was listed as being at Milestone 6, Full-Rate Production. The rest of the vehicles were listed as Milestone 7, Operations and Sustainment. It would appear that so far, once an MRAP type has been accepted, there is no rush to phase it out.

An additional two vehicles were still being managed by the Program Manager for Anti-Mine Systems. This office had been the organization first bring MRAP type vehicles into inventory before the official start of the MRAP program in 2007.

The managed programs and systems directory for PEO CS&CSS can be found here (http://peocscss.tacom.army.mil/products.pdf) (PDF).

Between 2002 and 2004, the US Army awarded contracts for the purchase of 25 Buffalo mine-protected vehicles through a company called Technical Solutions Group.

United States Army / Buffalo / 2003 / 2+4 men / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/buffalo.htm)

These vehicles were procured as part of the Ground Stand-Off Mine Detection System (GSTAMIDS) program. Also acquired under this program were the Meerkat and Husky Mk I mine-detection vehicles. An improved Husky Mk II replaced both the Husky Mk I and the Meerkat components of the system by 2007. By 2008, the a variant of the Husky equipped with a ground penetrating radar detection system was fielded, referred to as the Husky Mounted Detection System (HMDS). The USMC is known to have borrowed some Husky vehicles for operations in Afghanistan in January 2009 and to have expressed interest in acquiring its own. A further improved Husky Mk III vehicle was introduced sometime in 2009.

United States Army / Meerkat/Husky Mk I / 2003 / No Passengers / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/ivmmd.htm)
United States Army / Husky Mk II / 2007 / No Passengers / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/ivmmd.htm)
United States Army / Husky Mk II HMDS / 2008 / No Passengers / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/ivmmd.htm)
USMC / Husky Mk II / 2009 / No Passengers / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/ivmmd.htm)
US Army / Husky Mk III / 2009 / No Passengers / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/ivmmd.htm)

Around the same time as the initial purchases of the Meerkat and Husky, the US Army made the decision to purchase a limited number of RG-31 MPVs as control vehicles for the GSTAMIDS vehicle team of Meerkat/Husky and Buffalos. The US Army acquired the first 9 RG-31 vehicles between 2003 and 2004.

United States Army / RG-31 / 2003 / 2+6 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-31.htm)

In 2005, the US Army and USMC began investigating vehicles to transport engineer and EOD teams and provide them with additional protection against hazards they were increasingly facing in Iraq. The Medium Mine Protected Vehicle (MMPV) and Joint Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) Rapid Response Vehicle (JERRV) were procured in mid-2005 for this purpose. The MMPV was more or less a COTS Force Protection Cougar 4x4, while the JERRV was a Cougar 6x6, which had been modified for the purposes of carrying necessary engineering/EOD equipment. JERRVs can be identified by various stowage boxes other 6x6 Cougars do not have. In the USMC, the vehicles were referred to as Hardened Engineering Vehicles (HEVs).

United States Army/USMC / Cougar 4x4/Cougar 6x6 / 2005 / 2+8 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/cougar-hev.htm)

In November 2006, the Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle program is formally initiated. It issues its first contracts in January 2007. The vehicles selected in its two categories, one for a 4x4 vehicle to conduct patrols and other missions being carried out by up-armored HMMWVs, and a 6x6 vehicle to conduct various support missions, are the Force Protection Cougar, International (later Navistar Defense) MaxxPro, Land Systems OMC RG-33L, Stewart and Stevenson Tactical Vehicle (later Global Tactical Systems) Caiman, and the Force Protection Buffalo. By June 2007, the Land Systems OMC RG-33 had been added to the Category I procurement. The RG-31, and an improved RG-31A1 are also procured later under Category I. The Buffalo was later moved to a Category III for vehicles tailored to dealing with IEDs and Mines.

United States Army / MaxxPro / 2007 / 2+6 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/maxxpro.htm)
United States Army / Caiman / 2007 / 2+10 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/caiman.htm)
United States Army / RG-31A1 / 2007 / 2+6 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-31.htm)
United States Army/USMC / RG-33 / 2007 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-33.htm)
United States Army/USMC / RG-33L / 2007 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-33.htm)

In mid-2007, the MRAP JPO initiates work on an MRAP II program. This was in response to the increasing threat from Explosively Formed Penetrators (EFPs). Around the same time, a crash program to upgrade the armor on existing MRAPs to defeat these weapons comes into existence as well, the MRAP Expedient Armor Program (MEAP). The MRAP II program does not lead to any additional vehicle procurement directly. None of the vehicles apparently meet the desired requirements. However, Global Tactical Systems did offer a 4x4 Caiman "Light" as part of the program which was subsequently procured as part of the basic MRAP program as a standard Category I vehicle. The MEAP modifications become integrated into existing and new production vehicles. These are generally represented by an A2 designator, MEAP designator, or Plus designator, depending on manufacturer.

United States Army / Buffalo A2 / 2003 / 2+4 men / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/buffalo.htm)
United States Army / Caiman Plus/Caiman Light/ / 2008 / 2+10 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/caiman.htm)
United States Army/USMC / Cougar 4x4/Cougar 6x6 A2 / 2008 / 2+8 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/cougar-hev.htm)
United States Army/USMC / RG-33/L Plus / 2008 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-33.htm)
United States Army / MaxxPro MEAP/Plus / 2008 / 2+6 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/maxxpro.htm)

In early 2008, the US Army also successfully tested its Self Protection Adaptive Roller Kit (SPARK; a mine-roller) on the RG-31 series vehicles. This roller kit was also deployed on HMMWVs and 5-ton trucks.

United States Army / UA HMMWV w/ SPARK / 2008 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/spark.htm)
United States Army / RG-31/A1 w/ SPARK / 2008 / 2+6 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/spark.htm)
United States Army / M900-series w/ SPARK / 2008 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/spark.htm)

By Mid-2008, the US Army and USMC have begun procurement of a further improved RG-31 series vehicle, the Mk 5E. This vehicle is also referred to as the RG-31A2. The RG-31A3, which I believe is the Mk 6 vehicle, was procured further after that, but it is unclear when. I'm also unclear when Navistar Defense released the MaxxPro Dash, a lighter weight, higher performance version of the standard MaxxPro vehicle.

United States Army/USMC / RG-31 Mk 5E/A2 / Mid-2008 / 2+6 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-31.htm)
United States Army/USMC / RG-31A3 / Late-2008? / 2+6 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-31.htm)
United States Army / MaxxPro Dash / 2008? / 2+4 / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/maxxpro.htm)

Almost all MRAP vehicles have been fitted with, to some degree, remote weapon stations. The types fitted appear to be either the XM101 CROWS or XM153 CROWS II. This appears to have started in early 2008. Variants of the RG-33 family have also been procured specially configured for special operations use since the beginning of the MRAP program.

United States Army/USMC / RG-33L Heavily Armored Ground Ambulance (HAGA) / 2007 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-33.htm)
United States Army/USMC / RG-33 USSOCOM / 2007-2008 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-33.htm)
United States Army/USMC / RG-33L USSOCOM Armored Utility Vehicle (AUV) / 2008 / ? / LINK (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rg-33.htm)

[Suhiir]

For WinSPMBT purposes you could easily ignore the USMC "Joint Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) Rapid Response Vehicle (JERRV)"/"Hardened Engineering Vehicle (HEV)".

While they could be of use for a "insurgent ambushing an EOD team" type scenario, they're used only by EOD and not something you'd ever see in a "combat zone".

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Someone is there an auto save or save draft mode for these posts. Trying to get MRAP updates in and when I go to preview the post I'm timed out or something? Getting frustrated!! And time is short before I leave. Maybe
5th time will be the charm, gotta stay positive here.
Thanks,
Pat

[thatguy96]

I had the same problem trying to put in info about British, Dutch, and Canadian MRAPs. I really should make the post again, but I got frustrated initially and bailed on it.

[thatguy96]

Here we go again:

Netherlands / RG-31 Nyala / Late 2006 / 2+6 / link (http://www.casr.ca/bg-apv-nyala-dutch.htm)
Netherlands / Bushmaster MPV / October 2006 / ? / link (http://www.casr.ca/bg-apv-nyala-dutch.htm)
Netherlands / Bushmaster MPV w/ ROI Raven R-400 RWS / ~2007 / ? / link (http://www.casr.ca/bg-apv-nyala-dutch.htm)

The Dutch only received 5 RG-31s from Canadian Forces in Afghanistan until the arrival of their Bushmasters in October 2006. This is probably a debatable addition.

Canada / Buffalo / Late-2007 / 2+4 men / link (http://www.casr.ca/bg-cougar-buffalo-mrv.htm)
Canada / Cougar 6x6 / Late-2007 / 2+8 men / link (http://www.casr.ca/bg-cougar-buffalo-mrv.htm)

These are debatable since Canada is reported to have acquired only 5 of each.

UK / Mastiff 2 / June 2009 / 2+8 men / link (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/fighting-vehicles/1487.aspx)
UK / Wolfhound / Late-2009 / ? / link (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/fighting-vehicles/13867.aspx)
UK / Husky / Late-2009 / ? / link (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/fighting-vehicles/13865.aspx)

Woulfhound is the British name for Force Protection's new Tactical Support Vehicle (TSV), a Cougar variant. The Husky is based on Navistar's MXT family, a losing entry in the M-ATV program. There is some suggestion that the British Army is using a 4x4 Cougar A2 variant, referred to as the Ridgeback, essentially a 4x4 version of the Mastiff. I can't seem to find any concrete info on this quickly and its not the on the MoD website.

UK / Ridgeback / Mid-Late-2009/Early-2010? / ? / link (http://defense-update.com/products/r/ridgeback160309.html), link 2 (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/uk-land-forces-order-86-mastiff-ppv-cougar-vehicles-updated-02529/)

The British also contracted with Technical Solutions Group (an entity related to what is now Force Protection) in 2001 for the delivery of 8 mine protected vehicles based on the Lion 4x4, the vehicle from which the Buffalo and Cougar were eventually derived. The Buffalo was derived from the 6x6 Lion II vehicle, while the Cougar was a vastly improved derivative of the original 4x4 vehicle. It is not at all clear what happened to the vehicles. Delivery was apparently complete by February 2003 and there was still mention of the vehicles as of 2006 (referred to only as Mine Protected Vehicles). These vehicles were referred to as Tempest by TSG, Typhoon being the name initially applied to the 6x6 variant that became the basis for the Cougar.

UK / Tempest / February 2003 / 2+6 / link (http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/vo061031/text/61031w0017.htm), link 2 (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-97652298.html)


Picture of Tempest (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/R7M3iIf1NlI/AAAAAAAAF-c/M2AtP66RLCE/s1600-h/LAND+-+Tempest+MPV+004.jpg)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Will try this one more time! Again all cross referenced with notes as needed.
1. Russia/BPM-97/2000/C2 P10/12.7mm or 30mm w/BMP-8 Sim. Turret/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/bpm_97.htm
Though used for Border Units I believe it plays a role in Recon now but this info isn't solid. Your call here.

2. China/QL550/2006/C3 P6/12.7mm/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/ql_550.htm and
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20061202.aspx?comments=Y

These represent much improved units (IU) over their predecessors
(In WinSPMBT)or are new.

3. Germany,Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic and Luxembourg (For source continuity.)/DINGO 2/2007/C4 P4 or 7/Remote 7.62mm, 12.7mm or 40mmGL/IU/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/dingo_2.htm
and http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1280.html

4. Switzerland, Denmark & Germany/MOWAG DURO IIIP/2007/C2 P10/Remote 7.62mm or 40mmAGL/IU/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/mowag_duro_iiip.htm

5. China/VN-3/2008/C3 P2 (Scouts)/12.7mm or 14.5mm pictured/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/vn3.htm and
http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.152/pub_detail.asp

6. England/MASTIFF 2/2009/C2 P6/7.62mm and Remote 12.7mm or 40mmGMG/IU/
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mastiff-2/

7. USA/M-ATV/2009/C4 P1 (Gunner)/12.7mm/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/oshkosh_matv.htm and
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/oshkosh-mrap/

Went to post and edit to prevent being timed out again. Pictures on next post sorry for inconvenience.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Pictures for post #51, again sorry for the inconvenience. Will be departing 31 Jan for some R&R and will be back on 10 Feb. to check both MRAP and APC threads should you have any issues with info submitted. Please if not to inconvienant let me know what the "drop dead" date is if something comes up.
Pics:
1.9353 2.9354 3.9355

4.9356 5.9357

Many thanks again, pics 6 and 7 on next post.
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Last two!
6.9358 and 7.9359

Again thanks for your patience and the opportunity to do this. The slopes are calling and the skis can't wait! And I have some reading to catch up on. Someone will know this "set" I'm reading now and say not bad for a "Yank", "You ask, What is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory - victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror; victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival." For now a wise man who should've been listened too.
Good Night to you and all and have a great weekend!
With Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I haven't had a chance to look at any of this yet and probably won't for a week or two . It's all in my files though. IDK how much will get in but I'm aiming for as much as possible but I put the DURO IIIP into all three natons last week based on another report and the Mastiff's been in the game now for three years so chances are a lot of this will end up , or already has made it, to the game

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
No problem, understand about the work load. Just glad to be able to contribute to a small degree. Have to "hit the rack" as we have an early start and looks like weather to contend with later today. If you have any issues I'll be back by time you get to these anyway if any require further research etc.
Good Night!
Pat
No Response Needed.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It's amazing how things come back around, see post #1. This is the one I was refering to that caused a lot of :doh:'s, :banghead ing and :re: by me and others I'm afraid.

1. BAEs NEW CAIMAN C&P10 plus 1 gunner.:
http://www.defense-update.com/products/c/caiman_mtv_19022010.html

2. Improved MAXXPRO DASH:
http://www.defense-update.com/features/2010/february/maxxpro_dash_170210.html and for more background
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/maxxpro-dash/

3. India gets into the game with the TATA MPV-I:
http://defense-update.com/features/2010/february/mpv_india_defexpo2010_170210.html

Of course as always the pics:
9542 9543 9544

Well good night and Regards to all,
Pat
p.s. Have I found some neat things in the SP and SPAA world. Coming soon to FORUM near you!!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

BAE Systems unveils the RG OUTRIDER at the AUSA 2010 Winter show. This is the follow on vehicle to the successful RG-32M Series. Developed for first response and extreme off road requirements.
Source:
http://www.defense-update.com/products/o/rg_outrider_26022010.html
Pic from source:
9607

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Since things have been quiet around here lately I think due to "pre-patch release syndrome" and a general lack of updates in the areas I'm following, I thought I would provide the following article concerning the future role of the MRAP as the Iraqi theater of operations winds down. I hope for those who read it you'll find it as interesting as I did.
http://www.defense-update.com/features/2010/february/quo_vadis_mrap_26022010.html
The AI awaits me as my Japanese forces get ready for a "special battle" against the Russians in a meeting engagement or in AI speak prepare to be met by a large assaulting force! Take Care and have a GREAT weekend! And for those who celebrate it, a HAPPY ST. PADDYS DAY!!:cheers: :ire :shamrock: :party:
Sometimes you just gotta love them icons.
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As predicted the M-ATV will replace the HUMEVEE for in theatre military ops in Afghanistan. But as this article the HUMEVEE has reached it order limits but all will be modernised as they become available from current operations.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article.php?forumID=1662
See post #51 for more info on the M-ATV.
Regards,
Pat

[thatguy96]

Not all HMMWVs, all Up-Armored HMMWVs. This is an important distinction. This was the USMC plan with the original MRAPs and it didn't last long. It will be interesting to see if this actually comes to pass.

Modernized and recapitalized are also not the same. It amounts to overhauling them to a degree to which they have essentially "0 miles" on them. They'll still be the same models. The program initially took various subvariants no longer in widespread usage and upgraded them to a common standard.

The US military, and the Army in particular, doesn't really have a clear strategy yet for exactly how its going to integrate the MRAPs into the various wheeled vehicle upgrade programs its been working on for twenty years now. The M-ATV program really overlaps a lot with the JLTV program. There was some concern about whether the abortive MRAP II program was to have supplanted that requirement as well. It seems that the people running the JLTV have managed to keep it sufficiently separate to keep it funded for the time being. The Army has also expressed an interest in the HMMWV ECV 2 series as an interim step between the ECV series and whatever comes after the HMMWV.

[gila]

BAE Systems unveils the RG OUTRIDER at the AUSA 2010 Winter show. This is the follow on vehicle to the successful RG-32M Series. Developed for first response and extreme off road requirements.
Source:
http://www.defense-update.com/products/o/rg_outrider_26022010.html
Pic from source:
9607

Regards,
Pat

Sorry to say this,,, this is a clearly photoshopped pic.
Notice it a moving picture,yet the holes in the wheels are not blurred, looks like a model,too perfect.

[Imp]

BAE Systems unveils the RG OUTRIDER at the AUSA 2010 Winter show. This is the follow on vehicle to the successful RG-32M Series. Developed for first response and extreme off road requirements.
Source:
http://www.defense-update.com/products/o/rg_outrider_26022010.html
Pic from source:
9607

Regards,
Pat

Sorry to say this,,, this is a clearly photoshopped pic.
Notice it a moving picture,yet the holes in the wheels are not blurred, looks like a model,too perfect.

Bit of work to get the tyres blurred round edges etc, lot easier just to take photo of it moving.

Taken close up does not have to be going very fast for background to blur as pan.
Also note wheels have 3 holes in top picture more in bottom.
This is due to rotation speed being in synch with something just like sometimes when a vehicle slows down the wheels appear to rotate backwards for a moment.
Get the frame synch just right & you can film a helicopter flying without its rotor appearing to move for instance.

[gila]

Your correct on some,but still looks too perfect.
Clearly some retouching is done.
Probaly the DOD recuiting propaganda.
Good photo's anyway FT:D

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just came across this article concerning the RANGER. For IMP, Cross or someone else from across the pond does a visit like this mean anything when a piece of equipment is several monthes into the evaluation process?
http://www.universalengineering.co.uk/news.html
Regards,
Pat

[Imp]

Just came across this article concerning the RANGER. For IMP, Cross or someone else from across the pond does a visit like this mean anything when a piece of equipment is several monthes into the evaluation process?
http://www.universalengineering.co.uk/news.html
Regards,
Pat

No idea would say no possibly a marketing/awarness ploy, the article does state its touring all sub-contractors as part of its trials. Probably tied in with DSEi show mentioned.
Of course he could have been there to acess the manufacturing capabilities of the company if given the contract despite having no clue in that field. Fairly typical Govt procedure esp if he was accompanied by half a dozen other "experts" in that field.
Wouldnt happen in real life obviously as it would be a terrible waste of public money, kinda like letting a Civy have the final decision on what weapon systems to purchase rather than letting the guys that are going to use it decide.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

John,
Sounds like it's the same as here, just wasn't sure.
Thanks!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

SPV400 enters second round of blast testing as the competition between it and the OCELOT continues. British MOD conducting competition in the LPPV class of vehicles with the winner replacing MOD's Land Rovers.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1714.html
Pic:
10115
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Updates on two programs I've been tracking. First the HAWKEI makes the "AUSSIE" shortlist, see posts #29 & #31 for more background on this thread. Update as follows:
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/15513/
And next an OCELOT update, this is one of two vehicles
(SPV400 is the other.) chosen as finalists in the British MOD LPPV program. Update as follows:
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/15489/
Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Not all HMMWVs, all Up-Armored HMMWVs. This is an important distinction. This was the USMC plan with the original MRAPs and it didn't last long. It will be interesting to see if this actually comes to pass.

The US military, and the Army in particular, doesn't really have a clear strategy yet for exactly how its going to integrate the MRAPs into the various wheeled vehicle upgrade programs its been working on for twenty years now.

The US Army tends to create new units (platoons. companies, battalions, etc.) whenever they adopt a new type of equipment, such as a wheeled, light armored, light armed APC - i.e. MRAP.

My understanding is the USMC has never had any plans to create "MRAP" units. They have them, they use them, issuing them when needed to existing units (platoons and companies) as transport vehicles in place of trucks, LVT/AAV's, etc.

[thatguy96]

The US Army tends to create new units (platoons. companies, battalions, etc.) whenever they adopt a new type of equipment, such as a wheeled, light armored, light armed APC - i.e. MRAP.
Actually, in this case the only service I know to have specifically created MRAP units is the USMC, which attached provisional companies (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/09/mil-090928-mcn02.htm) of the vehicles to existing units to be doled out as needed.

I also wouldn't say the US Army creates new units every time a new piece of equipment comes along. It does modify the TOEs very often, but rarely is the unit designation changed. When the USMC creates a provisional unit they seem to apply a relatively unambiguous name, like "MRAP Company." The US Army on the other hand simply creates some magical MTOE from an existing one (or even makes an new official TOE), and then slaps something in parenthesis on the end that is decidedly more confusing. The basic unit designation doesn't change and is entirely based on the branch the unit is in.

As far as MRAPs are concerned, the only unit in the US Army that is specifically designed to use them are the Engineer Companies (Route Clearance), which were planned to be equipped with them when the vehicles were being tested prior to start of the craze in 2004. These units had been planned under the program to develop a Ground Standoff Minefield Detection System which started testing vehicles in 1999.

My understanding is the USMC has never had any plans to create "MRAP" units. They have them, they use them, issuing them when needed to existing units (platoons and companies) as transport vehicles in place of trucks, LVT/AAV's, etc.
In 2007, the USMC had initiated a plan to replace all up-armored HMMWVs it had with MRAPs. By November 2007, the USMC had shifted its plan, reducing its buy significantly, with the balance going to services that had in the interim actually increased their buy (this was basically everyone else). The US Army has integrated these vehicles into existing units in lieu of HMMWVs for the most part, and trucks to a lesser degree. With the exception of the provisional companies already noted, this appears to have been the case in the USMC too. The new M-ATV is being similarly integrated in place of units that were to have been issued HMMWVs.

[Suhiir]

I wasn't clear when I said "create new units". :doh:

What I ment was, as you said, the USMC does tends to in fact create something like an "MRAP Company" and dole then out as needed.
Whereas the US Army tends to incorporate stuff into the existing MTOE thus essentially creating a new MTOE, thus "unit" type.

I'd heard about the fanciful notion to replace the all armored HMMWVs with MRAPs, and knew it'd been essentially stillborn.
What exactly do you have on M-ATV deployment, numbers, and incorporation, in the USMC?

[thatguy96]

The total DoD buy as of November 2009 was ~6,500 vehicles. By January 2010, it was 6,619. A news story in March 2010 suggested the Army's portion of that was ~6,000 vehicles by itself. That's the latest info I have. I have not seen anything clear about their distribution, but I assume that they are likely being subbed in for UAHs as appropriate. This is all on Globalsecurity.org's page on the M-ATV.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The M-ATV numbers are close, army-guide.com off their contract page has the count at 6556 units that have been paid for to date.
defpro.com reports that about 470 more units will be delivered to SOCOM in Oct. - Nov. 2010 with the CROWS II system mounted. I think one of my first posts on the M-ATV gave a breakdown on who's getting what and how many. SOCOM M-ATV article:
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/586/
Will have news on the MRAP world when I get back from my wife's
big ..th (After all I am a gentleman now.) birthday party in beautiful Savannah, GA. until then to all of you enjoy your weekends!!!
Regards,
Pat

[thatguy96]

In that post you suggested that out of a 6,500 vehicle total, the USMC was to get 1,100, the USAF and Navy 100, and the Army would get the balance. Army News reported (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2010/03/mil-100316-arnews08.htm) in March 2010 that it expected the service to receive 6,000 vehicles.

I need to update the specific page on Globalsecurity.org because we also have this announcement (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2010/02/mil-100223-oshkosh01.htm) from Oshkosh from February suggesting a total buy of 8,079 vehicles by that point (up a little less than 1,500 from the January total). This would easily allow for a USMC buy of 1,100 or more vehicles, depending on the requirements for the USAF and Navy (and those 450 vehicles for SOCOM, but I don't know if that's on this contract or not).

The contract limit I believe was 10,000 vehicles, so it could easily get up to that.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the numbers will be in flux, I first reported on the M-ATV in the end of Sept. 2009, alot has happened since then. Also for future reference army-guide.com only reports on the contracts as they are signed and approved for further procurement of existing programs and as new ones come on line i.e. ARCHER SPA.
Alright here we go!
1. OCELOT of the British MOD MPPV program has been selected by the Australian MOD as the final entry into their LAND 121 program it will compete against the HAWKEI and EAGLE IV. SPV 400 not chosen to participate. Does this give the OCELOT the inside track in the UK MOD MPPV program? On the surface of it simply, no! This article quickly and nicely ties in all three vehicles into the LAND 121 program.
http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0510/land121_4_australia_26052010.html

2. UK MOD tenders for SUPRACAT SPV 400 as it moves on in the MPPV program.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/15805/

New Vehicles:

1. GILA/Nigeria&UNAMID/2007&2009 Respectively/C2 P9-10/
TM 12.7mm or 20mm & RM 7.62mm or DB 40mm GL RDs for all UKN/WinSPMBT Status: Not in (Or any see below.).
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3338.html,
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/ivema/press1.html,
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/ivema/ and http://www.military-today.com/apc/ivema_gila.htm
This is NOT the CASSPIR and not made by the same company, though using it as a benchmark, in a manner of speaking it is one on "steroids". UNAMID units purchased by Canada for Darfur Ops. A couple of these sources (And others.) indicate up to seven African countries operate these from some "snippets" I came across I would say South Africa , Senegal, Angola and Kenya. And I'm still short one. Senegal and Angola I believe are using ones supplied by UNAMID for Darfur. Any help here would be good with good sources for Don as my mission is to get improved and new units into the game.
Pics:
10195 10194

2. MADADOR/South Africa, Azerbaijan & Jordon (2011)/2010/
C2 P12/TM 12.7mm Rds UKN/
WinSPMBT Status: Not in.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/matador_mrap.htm,
http://www.armyrecognition.com/jordan_jordanian_army_land_ground_forces_uk/jordan_jordanian_army_land_ground_armed_forces_mil itary_equipment_armoured_vehicle_intelligence_uk.h tml, http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4039.html and http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/paramount-group/ Note info in last on MARUADER the urban combat version. Boosts best protection in it's class. Note para 4 from first source.
Pics:
10196 10197
Good Night!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the numbers will be in flux, I first reported on the M-ATV in the end of Sept. 2009, alot has happened since then. Also for future reference army-guide.com only reports on the contracts as they are signed and approved for further procurement of existing programs and as new ones come on line i.e. ARCHER SPA.
Alright here we go!
1. OCELOT of the British MOD MPPV program has been selected by the Australian MOD as the final entry into their LAND 121 program it will compete against the HAWKEI and EAGLE IV. SPV 400 not chosen to participate. Does this give the OCELOT the inside track in the UK MOD MPPV program? On the surface of it simply, no! This article quickly and nicely ties in all three vehicles into the LAND 121 program.
http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0510/land121_4_australia_26052010.html

2. UK MOD tenders for SUPRACAT SPV 400 as it moves on in the MPPV program.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/15805/

New Vehicles:

1. GILA/Nigeria&UNAMID/2007&2009 Respectively/C2 P9-10/
TM 12.7mm or 20mm & RM 7.62mm or DB 40mm GL RDs for all UKN/WinSPMBT Status: Not in (For any see below.).
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3338.html,
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/ivema/press1.html,
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/ivema/ and http://www.military-today.com/apc/ivema_gila.htm
This is NOT the CASSPIR and not made by the same company, though using it as a benchmark, in a manner of speaking it is one on "steroids". UNAMID units purchased by Canada for Darfur Ops. A couple of these sources (And others.) indicate up to seven African countries operate these from some "snippets" I came across I would say South Africa , Senegal, Angola and Kenya. And I'm still short one. Senegal and Angola I believe are using ones supplied by UNAMID for Darfur. Any help here would be good with good sources for Don as my mission is to get improved and new units into the game.
Pics:
10195 10194

2. MADADOR/South Africa, Azerbaijan & Jordon (2011)/2010/
C2 P12/TM 12.7mm Rds UKN/
WinSPMBT Status: Not in.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/matador_mrap.htm,
http://www.armyrecognition.com/jordan_jordanian_army_land_ground_forces_uk/jordan_jordanian_army_land_ground_armed_forces_mil itary_equipment_armoured_vehicle_intelligence_uk.h tml, http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4039.html and http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/paramount-group/ Note info in last on MARUADER the urban combat version. Boasts best protection in it's class. Note para 4 from first source.
Pics:
10196 10197
Good Night!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I will address a couple of specifics later, but this is a "cheat" article as also posted on the APC and MBT threads.
http://www.army-technology.com/features/feature90405/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

SUPACAT is pushing the SPV-400 hard in it's competion against the OCELOT in the British MOD LPPV program.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17143/
Pic:
10296

Romania gets donated MRAPS.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17157/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

US MRAP testing inadequate? You decide.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18011/

BUSHMASTER makes Canada's short list in their TAPV Program.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18015/

41 blast tests and the OCELOT is still going strong in the UK MOD's aggressive test program, probably the best blast test program out there after public and government concerns over casualties suffered due to IED's over the last few years.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17924/

And finally as promised the RG-41 on display and unveiled at EUROSATORY 2010. Might come in handy for the morning commute. I think we'll see more of this within the next year.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/south_africa_african_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle/rg41_bae_systems_wheeled_armoured_combat_vehicle_t echnical_data_sheet_description_specifications_uk. html

Pic:
10424

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good to see a story of some of the equipment we discuss save lives in the real world.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18093/
Obviously the upgrades to the MASTIFF during the last year as earlier reported have most certainly paid off.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Everything you ever wanted to know about MRAPs but were afraid to ask. A very good over view that covers the major players in the MRAP field and developmental history.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/cougar-armored-trucks-to-stalk-mines-on-the-battlefield-updated-0532/#more-532

Pic:
10504

M-ATV success story for OSH-KOSH but what about the competion?
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M-ATV-A-Win-at-Last-for-Oshkosh-05602/#more-5602

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This was meant to go with the last post sorry for any incompet...
I meant of course inconvenience.
10508
God I need some rack time, good night all!

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Nice to see that unlike most military equipment the Cougar actually lives up to the manufacturers claims ;)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well it's done, British MOD has made me 1 for 1 in predicting equipment. Chose wrong on the final FRES-SV platform but picked right on the LPPV program vehicle, OCELOT has been chosen over Supacat's SPV-400. See earlier posts on this thread.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1931.html
and http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1933.html
This will mean "good-bye" for the Land Rover, I think as important to the UK as the JEEP was for us.

Regards,
Pat

[Mobhack]

Well it's done, British MOD has made me 1 for 1 in predicting equipment. Chose wrong on the final FRES-SV platform but picked right on the LPPV program vehicle, OCELOT has been chosen over Supacat's SPV-400. See earlier posts on this thread.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1931.html
and http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1933.html
This will mean "good-bye" for the Land Rover, I think as important to the UK as the JEEP was for us.

Regards,
Pat

Not a land rover replacement - a replacement for the snatch land rover. land rover will still remain as a utility vehicle. (TUL is I think the current acronym - Truck Utility Light(?)).

Snatch was OK for its designed role (Internal security, proof against SAA ammo and petrol bombs, improvised pipe bombs etc), inside Northern Ireland. But outside of an all-tarmac road environment, it was too overloaded to deal with cross country movement - so was restricted to tracks and therefore to any IEDS placed alongside same.

Snatch should be 2WD - it is currently listed as 4WD in the OOB.

Cheers
Andy

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

You are correct, I pulled the trigger a little too fast on that statement.

Regards,
Pat

[jsallison]

The crew does transfer to the new tank when you upgrade. But, they lose some of their experience and morale in the process. How much is variable, but the loss isn't usually so much that they become less skilled then a brand new crew would be. Think of it this way...the crew was use to their old vehicle and knew where everything was and how it worked. Now they have a new vehicle but are still use to the old one, so while they may be very skilled they will not operate as effectively with the new vehicle as they did with the old one until they get use to it.

Even in peacetime I can attest to this. When our unit transitioned to M1 MBT's, basically, we sucked on our first gunnery after transition training. It didn't help that the qualification tables were jiggered with at the same time. A year later, when we knew what the heck we were doing it was a totally different story. Most of the units that I had knowledge of during that period had the same problem. So yeah, dropping off your M47 for an M48, or your T55 for a T62, is going to come at the cost of some level of effectiveness for some period of time. :bug:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

USMC spends a billion dollars on new and upgrades to existing MRAP vehicles see related articles as well.
http://defense-update.com/wp/20101218_new_mrap_variants.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just took this off my list as I can't support this as an "ADD" or "MOD" as my confidence level is very low that British MOD will get this vehicle for SPEC Ops or Recon work anytime soon. So here's the TMV 6x6.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/tmv6X6/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/united_kingdom_british_army_wheeled_vehicle_uk/tmv_6x6_m_sf_military_special_forces_reconnaissanc e_vehicle_data_sheet_description_specifications_uk .html
Pic:
10743

Another interesting vehicle I think we'll see in the game because I foresee some success for it the MBOMBE.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/paramountmbombe6x6ar/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/south_africa_african_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle/mbombe_paramount_group_wheeled_armoured_fighting_v ehicle_technical_data_sheet_specifications_uk.html
Pic:
10744

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

USMC spends a billion dollars on new and upgrades to existing MRAP vehicles see related articles as well.

Regards,
Pat

Since the EFV looks like it may be dead and neither the AAVP or "armored" HMMWV really cuts the mustard as an APC (stress on the "armored" part) its nice to see the budget being used for something fairly worthwhile.

Now...if they only came in an amphibious variant...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is the raw data only as submitted from the last patch post I submitted. It's been my policy to repost these into their "home" threads for comment or not.

MRAPS and a couple...
A1. ADD: ROMANIA/MAXXPRO DASH/JAN 2011/
C3 (Including gunner.) P6/Turreted 12.7mm w/2KRds/
They will receive 60 units on loan from the U.S., 20 of which are brand new with 40 refurbished and upgraded to meet the newer specs of units now operating in theater by the U.S. These are the better protected more maneuverable U.S. versions since initially deployed in 2007. Expect Romania to keep these as a 'thank you" for serving with the coalition. First units were delivered in Oct 2010 (8) they should have most by now and be trained in their use as well that's why JAN 2011.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18551/
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Defence-Weekly-2010/US-to-supply-MRAPs-to-Romanian-troops-in-Afghanistan.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/more-mraps-1200-maxxpro-mpvs-from-navistar-03344/
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/maxxpro-dash/specs.html

A2. ADD: NIGERIA & UN/GILA/JAN 2008/C2 P10/Turreted 12.7mm UKN Rds & RM 7.62mm UKN Rds./ As noted by the post this again is a CASSPRI on steroids with, much better all around armor protection and mobility. DENAL in fact this past summer has just released the new CASSPIR 4 to compete against the GILA. Also the company website lists that seven countries operate the GILA if I use the AU countries that have supplied troops to DARFUR they would be Cameroon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Malawi, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Tanzania and Uganda. Though on the post I gave my best guess (Angola and Kenya had troops there at the time of the refs as posted.) of who else has them I can't find anything concrete on them or of any listed above except Nigeria. Only Senegal "reappears" from the first post to now. Nigeria and UN (Canada selected these over the CASSPIR and others in the procurement process for UNADIM.) are the only ones I can say I'm sure of.
Post: Page 8; #75 for pictures as well.

A3. ADD: UK/OCELOT/JUN 2011/P6/RM 12.7mm w/2KRds/
The problem here is that a team of six get to and fight from this vehicle, there is no crew per say, I don't know how you can make this work? Won the UK MOD completion in the LPPV program beating out the Supacat SPV 400.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20095/
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news103743.html
Posts: Page 7; #68, Page 8; #79 and Page 9; #84 for pictures as well.

Regards,
Pat

[mkr8683]

Just my two cents - MRAPs are pieces of garbage. Take my word for it.

[Suhiir]

Just my two cents - MRAPs are pieces of garbage. Take my word for it.

They're good for what they're designed for.

Improved survivability vs IED's while driving on roads.

Only reporters and civilians think they're a suitable replacement for APC's / IFV's.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The news of the past week.

As one of my first posts, THALES has delivered it's two prototypes of the HAWKEI in Australia's LAND 121 program. Other competitors include the OCELOT and EAGLE. I believe a decision is due this year if memory serves.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22384/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

News of the last couple of weeks.

When you break sells records, you can afford a few toys.
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110311/162951763.html
From the "DID" site.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

News of the LW+:

Paramount of S. Africa asked to bring a couple of their vehicles to several S. American countries for evaluations. Marauder has already been reported on in this thread.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23744/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A little something for those "MRAPpers" out there.

1. Nordic issues and the MRAP shortage. As was posted to the APC thread today as well.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7120070&c=FEA&s=SPE

2. As posted to the APC and MBT threads today. So many MRAPs and nowhere to put them! In the short term refer yourself back to
#1.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7120071&c=FEA&s=SPE

That's it been kinda quite out there in this area-sorry!

Need a shower, some sleep before the grind later today (At least it's my TGIF!!). Have a great weekend! IF ANY OF YOU ARE EXPREINCING ANY COOL SUMMER WEATHER, PLEASE SEND IT TO A CERTAIN NAVSUBASE IN SE GA. THANKS!!

Pic:
11233
I do like Cartman well, at least until they bombed Canada!?!

Regards,
Pat

[mkr8683]

I was pissed when they took away our HumVees and gave them to the Iraqis. We got issued MRAPs with no extra protection on them, until a crew in our 1st platoon was hit by an EFP, killing one and wounding two. I hope that whoever was responsible for not getting us the up-armor package in time did not sleep afterwards.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Taking a break from the list after a long break from it as well. Just think Bananarama "It's a cruel, cruel summer." Anyway if you get BBC America TOP GEAR starts back up again Mon. night and I understand they will put Paramount's MATADOR through it's paces. See page 8 Post #75. Azerbaijan is the only country user also they're a licenced manufacturer.

1. DENAL is ready for full production of the CASSPIR MK6 their answer to the GILA (Also in Post #75.). Look to the SAF as being it's first user given their long history with the CASSPIR. The CASSPIR can trace it's lineage back to the early 70's with the SAF HIPPO, probably the first vehicle to embrace the concept of the MRAP.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2256.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/south_africa_african_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle/casspir_mk_6_vi_mine_protected_personnel_carrier_v ehicle_technical_data_sheet_specifications_picture .html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/26950/
Pics:
11258 11259

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well it started that I wasn't going to have anything to offer here, then I remembered about A1. from researching the new LEOPARD 7A1+ from the 2010/2011 campaign, made an offer and honored the request (British Huskey Thread by obreedon) and found another. Just before and after posting the 1st Patch Post I came across three more to be added to my next PP. One of which I recently just posted on (And not to the country of origin.) and another that'll go to I believe five countries total. Both linked to the same country. So that's the news part and here's the PP segment...

MRAPS
Nothing much happening here right now except for the below item. The sector has been very busy in the area of orders for existing equipment. The only other new piece of equipment to fit this category is Paramount’s MATADOR & MAURADER (Pg. 8 Posts #75 & 76.) however Aberbazan is not in the game and they are currently the only operators of these vehicles which some have dubbed "the best in their class". The deal with Jordan never got done. See Posts # for further information.

A1. ADD/NORWAY/DINGO 2/JAN 2011/C1 P7/ARROWS-300 FULL SYSTEM ROT w/40mmHV AGL Rds UKN & M3S 12.7mm w/300RDs./See Ref 3 which shows the turret as described and ordered by Norway./
The DINGO 2 is a much improved version of the DINGO 1 that's better protected and much more mobile.
http://defense-update.com/wp/20101029_dingo_norway.html
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-YWt0X3BhZ2U9MSZkb209ZG9tMSZsPWVuJm5ld3NfaWQ9NjA0Mz k-~rechte-navi~pressemitteilungen~news_detail.html
http://www.kmweg.de/2922-ZG9tPWRvbTEmbD1lbiZuZXdzX2lkPTU4Njc4-~rechte-navi~pressemitteilungen~news_detail.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/dingo2protecetedvehi/
http://www.armedforces-int.com/article/arrows-300series-advanced-reconnaissance-remotely-operated-weapon-system.html
Also Pg.6 Post #51.

A2. ADD/UK/HUSKEY/JUN 2009/P4 RECON-SPEC OP versions/RWS 12.7mm w/UKN Rds./C2 P2 for Transport, Command or Ambulance versions./Also known as the MXT. The Recon-Spec Op versions are up armored from the others and since all retain the bed portion of the vehicle besides extra fuel and other gear to cause the enemy some havoc, I'm sure there's plenty of room for ammo, I would think 1500 - 2000 Rds would not be unreasonable in this case. This vehicle represents the third in the triad of better protected vehicles UK MOD had sought to lower the causality rates of the ones used prior to them which is why Ref. A is where it's at.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6695154.ece
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/husky-tsv/
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/husky-tsv/specs.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Navistars-MXT-Makes-Breakthrough-in-Britain-05178/#more-5178
http://www.defencetalk.com/work-begins-on-husky-vehicles-for-british-army-17274/
Pics:

Well I did say this was a living document...

A3. ADD/POLAND/ZUBR/JUN 2011/C2 P10/RWS 12.7mm or optional 7.62mm and 30mm AGL w/UKN Rds. /SPro 4 grenade dispensers. /This vehicle is available in four variants two of which will be addressed here. The ZUBR has protection against 12.7mm rounds and arty shell splinters. Also it has a tow capacity of 3,300lbs (1500kgs) a feature not normally mentioned in the refs. Blast protection against up to 8kg. It is also air portable.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/zubr-apc/
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=451
http://www.military-today.com/apc/zubr_mrap.htm
Pic:
11337 11338

Again pics for these are in the PP Thread. The ZUBR were still in my files.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I first reported on this vehicle back Oct. 2009 (Pg 2.) and as I followed up expressed that I thought it would be chosen in the end, well it was last month by Austrailia for the Land 121 Program. HAWKEI has made the grade. It has been reported by my other sources as well, and it's about three years out for game consideration. This is just for tracking purposes.
http://defense-update.com/20111214_hawkei_selected.html
http://defense-update.com/20090929_hawkei-2.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

More on HAWKEI that I forgot to post with the last-sorry! But doesn't it just look like something we can all take to visit Don or Andy and have a good time getting there? Well anyway here you go...besides probably not enough room in their driveways for us to park them all anyway!?!
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/30729/

Some miscellaneous items maybe of or not of game importance that I found interesting. Maybe someone can use these?
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23738/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/26743/
I believe the above was the missile (Upgraded version of it.) used in that tank video I posted in the MBT Thread a month ago or so used on the Syrian tank.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

More house cleaning and put off items for the now 2012/2013 Campaign just a handful in the MRAP category. Some of these items as shown here and in the other various threads were put off due to the heavy work load Don and Andy had to get through this year.

1) India has this vehicle as of about last fall with their police, through Mahindra & Mahindra of India is a licensed producer of the CASSPIR MK6 by BAE which was designed to compete against the GILA which made it into the game in the last patch for Nigeria and the UN. India has designated the vehicle as the MPV-1. You will note it now shares a Russian heritage as well. They will be in service with the Army later in the year.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/south_africa_african_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle/casspir_mk_6_vi_mine_protected_personnel_carrier_v ehicle_technical_data_sheet_specifications_picture .html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/An-MRAP-for-India-04739/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27840/
ADD.
Pic:
11752

2) Spain to purchase more RG-31 vehicles, I believe I saved this because in their OOB they didn't have them. But since that was awhile ago I'll leave myself the below "out".
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27925/
VERIFY FOR POSSIBLE ADD.

3) Turkish designed KIRPI BMC 350 is a new MRAP which is in service with Turkey, Afghanistan and Iraq.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/turkey_turkish_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicles_uk/kirpi_bmc_350_mrap_armoured_vehicle_personnel_carr ier_data_sheet_specifications_description_pictures .html
ADD FOR ALL THREE COUNTRIES.

4) Russia buys Italian LMV. Orders are expected to exceed amount shown in this article as posted already by some of my sources.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2828:russia-army-orders-italian-lmv-mraps&catid=1:europe&Itemid=57
ADD.

That's it for now here. Along with the CASSPIR 6 will also be a verification of the countries that have the CASSPIR as mentioned in the "DID" ref I believe.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[cbreedon]

It doesn't look like the UK husky made the patch, unless it's called something else. Is this vehicle in another OOB that I could copy over?

[Mobhack]

It doesn't look like the UK husky made the patch, unless it's called something else. Is this vehicle in another OOB that I could copy over?

It's an ammo vehicle (TSV) with added mine resistance - and there is no such class in MBT, so no point in the vehicle.

There are plenty of other UOR vehicles and the Foxhound seems to do the same thing if it is even used as a light PPV and not simply as a logistical vehicle.

(It's going to be a right mess this mix of 99 different vehicles - presumably some will be kept after the Afghan pull-out, but most will likely (have to) be sold off to rationalise fleet maintenance - or simply be dumped on the Afghan army?.)

Andy

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It isn't, nor is it listed as the MXT. I went back to the MRAP segment that was posted to this thread from the Patch Post one, this could've been my fault. What I didn't "fix" on the first line you'll see my standard entry, note the C2 (Crew) P2 (Passengers), pretty much makes this vehicle useless in real as well as game terms. It should have read P5 with an explanation that a RECON or other small weapons/sniper team would use this vehicle and both mount and dismount from it. In the rush to get the last part of my inputs into Don when a small window of opportunity presented itself to the both of us to do so, I forgot to fix this. If this was the case I'm sure in due time it'll be made known to us. At present I had planned to resubmit the HUSKEY as it represents one leg of the triad of new vehicles as approved in the UK MOD OUVS Program. It would however be unfair of me to say there weren't other reasons unknown to me, though I could make some guesses. I've enjoyed a very high success rate in getting equipment in, modified etc. but at times some things don't. For now, I'll take the hit plan on, move on, and resubmit for the 2012/2013 Campaign. But this is the time I leave the Bosses alone, the 2011/2012 Campaign was a tough one all the way around.

Andy,
Saw your answer as I posted mine. Pulled the below from the Army-Tech ref submitted. This was the one I was looking at and meant for the game.

"International MXT model

The International MXT is a rugged lightweight vehicle meant for border patrol, reconnaissance missions and security details. It measures 252in, 91in and 96in in length, height and width. The model is powered by the MaxxForce D/VT-365 V8 engine and is suitable to accommodate five passengers. The vehicle can be armoured with a complete range of ballistic IED and mine-blast protection solutions, integral and A-kit / B-kit configurations and 360° crew protection."

Regards,
Pat

[gila]

Flooding the TOE's with too much info,, is IMO counter productive.

Think if were you to assemble all the info you give, and keep track when it will be actually be confirmed?

Just my 2 cents:)

[cbreedon]

It isn't, nor is it listed as the MXT. I went back to the MRAP segment that was posted to this thread from the Patch Post one, this could've been my fault. What I didn't "fix" on the first line you'll see my standard entry, note the C2 (Crew) P2 (Passengers), pretty much makes this vehicle useless in real as well as game terms. It should have read P5 with an explanation that a RECON or other small weapons/sniper team would use this vehicle and both mount and dismount from it. In the rush to get the last part of my inputs into Don when a small window of opportunity presented itself to the both of us to do so, I forgot to fix this. If this was the case I'm sure in due time it'll be made known to us. At present I had planned to resubmit the HUSKEY as it represents one leg of the triad of new vehicles as approved in the UK MOD OUVS Program. It would however be unfair of me to say there weren't other reasons unknown to me, though I could make some guesses. I've enjoyed a very high success rate in getting equipment in, modified etc. but at times some things don't. For now, I'll take the hit plan on, move on, and resubmit for the 2012/2013 Campaign. But this is the time I leave the Bosses alone, the 2011/2012 Campaign was a tough one all the way around.

Andy,
Saw your answer as I posted mine. Pulled the below from the Army-Tech ref submitted. This was the one I was looking at and meant for the game.

"International MXT model

The International MXT is a rugged lightweight vehicle meant for border patrol, reconnaissance missions and security details. It measures 252in, 91in and 96in in length, height and width. The model is powered by the MaxxForce D/VT-365 V8 engine and is suitable to accommodate five passengers. The vehicle can be armoured with a complete range of ballistic IED and mine-blast protection solutions, integral and A-kit / B-kit configurations and 360° crew protection."

Regards,
Pat
What are the stats for the Husky? I will just add them to my UK OOB. This vehicle would fit how I play perfectly. I usually have a sniper team in a small vehicle try to infiltrate to the rear of the enemy and wreak havoc :-)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Once upon a time a very long time ago there was a vehicle and his name was Willy's such a silly name, that most knew him simply as Jeep. He was made to bring supplies to the troops, get them to the doctor and other mundane jobs. However there was a nasty war far from home and he was asked to serve there, so he got fit and his friends found he could do so much more like tow a 37mm ATG and carry it's crew or because he became so fit and was so fast and agile he become better known as a scout and sometimes a raider with his team and a .50 cal, first in the deserts of Africa, then the jungles of Asia and also the forests of Europe. You know not all is what it seems in the beginning...
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/BritishAndAfghanForcesTargetInsurgencyInNahreSaraj .htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/defenceimages/5093271668/
And you better believe there's a Pic, this also from the UK MOD and do please note the date of the article...
11766 11769

For general specs on the HUSKY refer back to the army-tech ref on Pg. 10 Post #100 for the picture showing the up-armored version in the defence-industry ref also in the same post and with the picture above you might have enough for the RECON/COMBAT version for your Icon. It will carry 5 troops. Will see if I can come up with more combat pictures and or specs if still needed.

I so love a good bedtime story, especially after some of my teammates had a bit of a testy day and I feel their pain.

So good night as I have to do it again later today.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

There will be one in the next upgrade. I'm working on the Icon now

Don

[DRG]

Usually in cases like this I find the answer 5 minutes after I ask the question but I have been searching for a clear photo or indictor for 20 minutes and have yet to find one.

Can anyone tell me .......is that a 360 degree turret or a forward firing MG with armoured sides ?

Don

[AMX]

Usually in cases like this I find the answer 5 minutes after I ask the question but I have been searching for a clear photo or indictor for 20 minutes and have yet to find one.

Can anyone tell me .......is that a 360 degree turret or a forward firing MG with armoured sides ?

Don

Does this help, or did I mix up the vehicle?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/defenceimages/5035991041/in/set-72157625408113758/
And the next image in the gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/defenceimages/5036609402/in/set-72157625408113758/

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
That would be a 360 RO turret capable of mounting up to a. 12.7mm, though I believe the pictures show the UK LMG (7.62mm?). Away on a little R&R with CINCLANTHOME just happened to look in. Didn't see those pics when I went on FLICKR click on lsecond ref of last Post to the Scots Guards w/their HUSKY. Still getting used to this IPad I won, and you'll never guess who never gets to use it!?!
Hope you all have a great week!

Regards,
Pat

[scJazz]

I was reading an article about MRAPs which made me want to post the following. Apologies if it is already covered. I don't use MRAPs much if at all. Also perhaps this is the wrong thread for it but hey one titled MRAPs doesn't seem that bad right :)

Should MRAP class vehicles suffer (suffer even more) movement penalties for moving through any terrain that basically isn't road? High center of gravity is not optimal for offroading. So instead of 2 MP per Clear perhaps 3? 50/50 of getting stuck in Rough with move 1 hex, guaranteed if you move faster. This sort of thing?

[DRG]

There has already been some comment that they should be classed 2WD but the discussion didn't go far

Don

[Imp]

The problem would be dessert maps where I would think they would out perform 2WD, otherwise 2WD strikes me as a good option.

[scJazz]

Call me crazy but if the only place where they would outperform 2wd is desert, which seems reasonable, then 2wd seems a fair choice.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm afraid the S. Africans for instance would have a hard time with this argument, the CASSPIR Series and the models that proceeded them have a high center of gravity as much for mine protection as the terrain they operate in. With independent four wheel drive and the special suspension units installed, they'll eat a 2WD vehicle for breakfast, lunch and dinner and flush the bolts down the pooper later. Remember a 2x4 is your car in most cases and I don't think you would take it off road except in emergency would you? Granted my car on the paved road would leave a vehicle like the recently discussed HUSKY in the rear view but I have no illusions who would win off the pavement. And you have to bear in mind the power under the hood of these vehicles again the HUSKY has a road speed of 70mph/110km(?). Go to You Tube and watch the videos of the COUGER running at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds then get back to me. What kills me in these discussions are that people forget what these terms sometimes means (Present company excluded.) 2WD=2 wheels driving the rest, while 4x4/or AWD are all the wheels driving. In summary... some of these vehicles are 2WD with "on the fly" AWD options or are full time AWD. Pay attention to the "MOBILITY" and "MANUVERABILITY" sections as you browse the vehicles of your choice. I don't know of many 2WD vehicles that can handle a ~60% gradient or ~40% side slope, that's what an MRAP and TRACKED vehicle will do for you with added protection for your troops and weapons for protection even better then a "soft target" AWD truck. And here's my disclaimer I've used them for "specialized" purposes only, I rather prefer the IFV or APC. With the second ref the MRAPs are at the bottom of the section and I see they've done some updating since I last looked in as well.
http://www.military-today.com/trucks.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc.htm

Thank you for the opportunity to get off my last unmentionable numbered post it was "creeping" us out before we headed home!?!

Regards,
Pat

[gila]

Marcello,
Good Morning!
Sorry I didn't explain in more detail but was in the wind down mode from work. To #1. of my crew question: I know surving crew that are unmolested will return after the battle is over in the "repair" phase of a campaign game. However I don't believe this happens when due to ememy fire (or friendly air or arty) the crew takes further casualities and the surviving crew are forced to "disperse".
Concerning #2 I don't believe (and as stated on the first post I could be wrong here.) That again while in the "repair" phase when I "change" to a newer version of an Abrams for example that the current crew mans the the newer version Abrams I just upgraded to. I know this isn't feasible if changing from say a Bradley to an Abrams but should be allowed from Abrams to Abrams so as not to lose the crews exprience level. Again this is in the campaign mode. Hope this helps and thank you for your reply!
Pat

This is a such basic question,it begs a WTF? why you of all,,, are you even asking?
Do you even ever play the game?
Wonders??

[gila]

Call me crazy but if the only place where they would outperform 2wd is desert, which seems reasonable, then 2wd seems a fair choice.

Call me crazy,but i'm thinking MRAP's are not going to improve any more than are currently,after all they are just big expensive IED resistant trucks,and nothing else special.

[scJazz]

I'm afraid the S. Africans for instance would have a hard time with this argument, the CASSPIR Series and the models that proceeded them have a high center of gravity as much for mine protection as the terrain they operate in. With independent four wheel drive and the special suspension units installed, they'll eat a 2WD vehicle for breakfast, lunch and dinner and flush the bolts down the pooper later. Remember a 2x4 is your car in most cases and I don't think you would take it off road except in emergency would you? Granted my car on the paved road would leave a vehicle like the recently discussed HUSKY in the rear view but I have no illusions who would win off the pavement. And you have to bear in mind the power under the hood of these vehicles again the HUSKY has a road speed of 70mph/110km(?). Go to You Tube and watch the videos of the COUGER running at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds then get back to me. What kills me in these discussions are that people forget what these terms sometimes means (Present company excluded.) 2WD=2 wheels driving the rest, while 4x4/or AWD are all the wheels driving. In summary... some of these vehicles are 2WD with "on the fly" AWD options or are full time AWD. Pay attention to the "MOBILITY" and "MANUVERABILITY" sections as you browse the vehicles of your choice. I don't know of many 2WD vehicles that can handle a ~60% gradient or ~40% side slope, that's what an MRAP and TRACKED vehicle will do for you with added protection for your troops and weapons for protection even better then a "soft target" AWD truck. And here's my disclaimer I've used them for "specialized" purposes only, I rather prefer the IFV or APC. With the second ref the MRAPs are at the bottom of the section and I see they've done some updating since I last looked in as well.
http://www.military-today.com/trucks.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc.htm

Thank you for the opportunity to get off my last unmentionable numbered post it was "creeping" us out before we headed home!?!

Regards,
Pat

Fair enough Pat. I was just tossing the idea out there. Your argument against nerfing them is reasonable.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is more for FYI then anything else. First I will have inputs here for the 2014/2015 Campaign, as you can see things have been quiet here, but this is mostly due to priorities in other areas vs. development in this one. So there'll be a couple of old items that were put off and new equipment introduced. I think currently I'm holding data for about 6-8 new items here. AND NOT FOR THE U.S. & UK etc. they have enough MRAPs in the OOBs I think.
Now for the real purpose of this post... Rarely do we get a chance to see equipment on TV in use, however tonight on BBC America Top Gear @ 7:30pm EST look for Richard visits Lake Como, James travels to Afghanistan, Jeremy goes to Bruges, Belium. They used to title the episodes not this year I guess, anyway James will drive the FOXHOUND and travel in the MASTIFF (Which I probaly forgot has TI for the driver and commander.) anyway very interesting I thought.
Stick around for Jeremy if you want to know me better. ;)

From the show on a memorial to the UK dead BEFORE they got this equipment (And the number of lives saved is impressive compared to the pre MRAP days.)...
"WHEN YOU GO HOME TELL THEM OF US AND SAY, FOR YOUR TOMMORROW WE GAVE OUR TODAY.
Sometimes they just leave us too soon.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Call me crazy but if the only place where they would outperform 2wd is desert, which seems reasonable, then 2wd seems a fair choice.

Call me crazy,but i'm thinking MRAP's are not going to improve any more than are currently,after all they are just big expensive IED resistant trucks,and nothing else special.

I have to agree wholeheartedly, they definitely should be 2WD.
They're designed and intended to protect troops patrolling roads and streets NOT as a replacement for APCs/IFVs.
Of course there may be exceptions (such as the CASSPIR).

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

So they have roads in Afghanistan!?! :p I'll try my quoted post before my last this way and mind you I'm a "Yankee" who's been in the South long enough to know if you want the respect of the folks around here and you by a 2x4 pickup you'll be looked (And called.) upon as being "stupider than a dxxx yankee" a person who buys the 4x4 will of course be...come on now...that's right "smarter than a dxxx yankee" I personally prefer the latter to the former!?! When "mud bogging" it's about who can get through the mud the fastest and throw the most mud around on their trucks, themselves and anyone around. They are the latter from above. Those that get stuck are the former from above subject to the riducule of the "latter", trapsing around in the mud swearing, getting wet and mudding without all the fun and worse of all watching the "latter" laughing and drinking all the beer trying to decide whether or not someone should pull the "former" out of the mud. How does this sad story end? Not to worry the 4x4 "latter" guys will pull out the 2x4 "former" guy at the cost of his beer and probaly his girlfriend if stuck as well. They don't like being embarrassed after when she probaly told him to buy the 4x4 in the first place.
Yes that's right we where talking about the MRAP. Well the UK still used them like the "Desert Rats" of old and we used them like the "Rat Patrol" of old (And the TV show too.). They generally are better protected and have a longer range then their tracked cousins. So yes they are the "former". :D

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

So they have roads in Afghanistan!?! :p I'll try my quoted post before my last this way and mind you I'm a "Yankee" who's been in the South long enough to know if you want the respect of the folks around here and you by a 2x4 pickup you'll be looked (And called.) upon as being "stupider than a dxxx yankee" a person who buys the 4x4 will of course be...come on now...that's right "smarter than a dxxx yankee" I personally prefer the latter to the former!?! When "mud bogging" it's about who can get through the mud the fastest and throw the most mud around on their trucks, themselves and anyone around. They are the "latter" from above. Those that get stuck are the "former" from above subject to the riducule of the "latter", trapsing around in the mud swearing, getting wet and muddy without all the fun and worse of all watching the "latter" laughing and drinking all the beer trying to decide whether or not someone should pull the "former" out of the mud. How does this sad story end? Not to worry the 4x4 "latter" guys will pull out the 2x4 "former" guy at the cost of his beer and probaly his girlfriend if stuck as well. They don't like being embarrassed after when she probaly told him to buy the 4x4 in the first place.
Yes that's right we where talking about the MRAP. Well the UK still used them like the "Desert Rats" of old and we used them like the "Rat Patrol" of old (And the TV show too.). They generally are better protected and have a longer range then their tracked cousins. So yes they are the "former". :D
I couldn't resist...Pics!!
12890 12891
12892 12893

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well obviously I screwed that last post up. Funny was talking to someone about how this year has been rough again for two in a row now and it showed in the last post-and it was a half way decent ana...story. Point being "latter" and "former aside, the
4x4 is better then the 2x4 as generally the MRAP will hold up better then a tracked vehicle in the enviroment of a country like Afganistan or Africa in general besides tanks you don't see many tracked APC or IFV types in the armies there. SANDF is a prime example of this.
http://www.army.mil.za/equipment/vehicles/index.htm
http://www.army.mil.za/equipment/weaponsystems/armour/index.htm

Thank goodness Spring Training is just around the corner!?!

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Of course they have roads in Afghanistan, mostly dirt/gravel but roads never-the-less.

Folks seem to assume because MRAPs can be used as "Rat Patrols" or APCs in places like Iraq/Afghanistan (at least when not in the more rugged areas) they'll work just as well in say Europe, Korea, or Vietnam. Try it and see how far you get off-road.

Side Note:
My primary vehicle during Gulf I was a M890 (4×2-wheel drive version of the M880), I had the driver stay in 2WD all the time, only using 4WD when we got stuck (only happened a couple times) because this encouraged the young L/Cpl NOT to assume he could drive anywhere he wanted.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the on again, off again, on again, off again oh yeah on again USA/USMC Joint JTLV Program is I think still moving forward with a couple of issues first the USMC kinda doesn't want it and it doesn't fit both literally and figuratively into the USMC scheme of things. Well you judge for yourselves, personally I'm starting to think the Indian MOD (See the most recent Jet Thread post.) is involved somehow in this.
http://www.janes.com/article/48188/pentagon-testers-jltv-hinders-marine-amphibious-assault-operations

But the other reason we're here is because that is assuming there is a Patch for next year I'll have a handful of items in this category, but as you'll note with this offering we're dealing with a hybrid type of MRAP that's come about in the last 2-3 years were the emphasis has been placed on increased APC protection levels along with tradition MRAP mine protection standards again as noted below.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/january_2015_global_defense_security_news_industry/russias_southern_military_district_received_20_mor e_kamaz_typhoon_mrap_vehicles.html

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

That's really no surprise.
JLTV's and MRAP's are very nice for what they're designed for. Protecting passengers during road convoy maneuvers. As general use or cross-county vehicles they're less then ideal.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I've been tracking this for 6yrs and 4 days (See page 3, Post 29 from Oct. 01, 2009.) and Australia has finally decided to make the purchase of the HAWKEI to replace most of their Land Rover fleet. When first posted it looked like they would have them by mid to late 2013. It was already "down selected" in I believe 2011 from it's competitors, which included the M-ATV from OSH KOSH among others. It's pretty safe to say it's probably one of the most tested vehicles in it's class as the delays really didn't stem developmental issues as much as political delays due to change of governments and mostly from economic delays. This is a very capable, very fast all terrain mini-MRAP if you will that got it's genes from the BUSHMASTER.

Sometimes you just have to stay with it to get it right. I'll be submitting only the 6 passenger version (4 door.) as the 3 passenger (2 door.) wouldn't add any value to the Australian OOB.
http://www.janes.com/article/55007/australia-signs-aud1-3-billion-hawkei-4x4-deal



Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

If the AMPV goes ahead I'm ready.........

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13933&stc=1&d=1445125540

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

HOT OFF THE PRESS for my Marine Buddy...
"The U.S. Marine Corps’ Joint Light Tactical Vehicle is officially ready to deploy and support missions of the naval expeditionary force-in-readiness worldwide." So Happy IOC!! :angel
https://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2019_global_defense_security_army_news_indu stry/u.s._marine_corps_jltv_declared_operational.html
https://www.marines.mil/News/News-Display/Article/1932142/the-corps-jltv-achieves-initial-operational-capability
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/12/marines-declare-initial-operational-capability-for-jltv

HAVE MORE ON THIS AT HOME WHEN THEY STARTED GETTING THEM TO THE TRAINING CENTERS. If you need me to post them for you I will when I get back next week. I'll be looking in as I have. If not, I'll clean out the "dead weight" in my files.

If I may take the liberty to do so as a mere "Bubblehead"..."Semper Fidelis" amicus meus! :)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[scorpio_rocks]

."Semper Fidelis" amicus meus! :)

I believe the marine in question is more a "amica mea" :woman4: