Noob question #476 Sea Trolls

[Hector, tamer of horses]

I have summoned a Sea king and his Troll court. It says that the Troll King can enable units with him to breathe underwater. How many? I put a Crown of Command on him hoping that he could enable a big pile of units to go with him underwater. But it keeps dumping them and indicating that only a portion of the units can go. Far less than the command limit.

What am I missing?

[thejeff]

It's only a few. I don't remember exactly. However many are left after he dumps them.

10-15??

[K]

I have summoned a Sea king and his Troll court. It says that the Troll King can enable units with him to breathe underwater. How many? I put a Crown of Command on him hoping that he could enable a big pile of units to go with him underwater. But it keeps dumping them and indicating that only a portion of the units can go. Far less than the command limit.

What am I missing?

Offhand, I also don't recall the actual limit, but for future reference remember that the ability to bring people underwater is separate from command limit.

[Hector, tamer of horses]

Thanks Guys

It does look as if the limit is 10 or so. Dashed be to my grandoise plans for underwater invasion.

F

[OmikronWarrior]

On a similar note, I do believe water breathing is based on Size, not strict numbers.

[Agema]

Get enough sea trolls, you get a decent sea invasion anyway.

[Choralone]

There's a goblet thingee that you can forge for him (or that he can forge) that will allow any commander to bring 50 human-sized troops underwater with him, or 25 giant-sized. (Minus one for the commander, though)

[Ynglaur]

Undead work, too, though at a disadvantage (Poor Amphibians). Soulless in particular end up with Attack/Defense/Etc. in the 2-4 range. Spectrals work well if you're LA Ermor.

[Jarkko]

Use the sea-troll to craft a Sea Goblet, next turn equip it, and you can bring a nice number of units under the waves (plus the trolls who were summoned along with the king).

[Hector, tamer of horses]

Thanks guys

The undead thing hasn't worked well thus far. Probably because the defenders are pretty good amphibians and there are lots of them.

I have made a bunch of Goblets and Barrels of Air and this tends to beef up my numbers.

As for generating more Sea Trolls, my big problem currently is lack of water gems. I am not ready to alchemize the numbers of other gems that I need.

But thanks for all of your suggestions.

Is this a great game or what?

[Ironhawk]

SCs and mages usually give you more bang for the buck than forging breathing items. You might want to consider them.

[vfb]

A bunch of lifeless earth units like Mech Men and Iron Dragons have the (poor) amphibian flag, so you could bring some of those underwater. Don't forget to have your Sea King cast Shark Attack.

[Agema]

My suggestion for underwater expansion are elite units if you're going to take land troops.

Basic infantry have about 10 all stats. With the underwater penalty of -3 Att/Def, you're looking at troops hitting about half the time and being hit 50%+ more often - think of it as taking a bunch of standard militia into combat on land.

This means you need to take huge amounts of troops to get combat equivalence, and that will cost you in gems making the waterbreathing items. Furthermore, you'll be doing a lot of swiping and missing, which added to an underwater encumbrance penalty will mean you also tire very quickly, exacerbating your troubles.

If you take elites, you'll be fighting with approximate parity, as they'll still have 9 or so Att/Def after the penalty. Even better, elite cavalry, as you can get them heavily armoured, significantly increasing survivability, whilst being mounted means their armour will fatigue them much more slowly. They'll often have two attacks (hoof, sword, lance on first turn) as well, meaning they'll still give you a fair advantage against average aquatic troops despite the penalties.

[Jarkko]

There are some troops that are amazing under water. Stuff people usually don't use there though :) You don't need many of the following along your commander, so perfect for a land-lubber commander wanting to get their feet wet.

Minotaurs, elephants, chariots, iron pigs and what ever tramplers you can think of. Who cares if they can hit or not, they just trample anything in their way. There are no arrows under water to annoy them :)



Then a couple more specialised options (available for only a few nations)

Hydras. Oh em geee. In an on-going MP game as LA Pythium (with CBM1.6 though, which makes it much easier to get under the waves) the hydras are just great. Many under water thingies have poisonous attacks, but AFAICR nobody has poison resistance. Hydras chew through anything under the waves, and again, no arrows to annoy them. Hydras don't have to hit anything, they just have to not die (and the hydras are excellent at not-dieing).

Monster toads. Ok, these are tramplers *and* they have poison cloud and it is easy to give them a small Nature bless. Does it get any better than that under water where there are no arrows?

[Hector, tamer of horses]

Thanks Jarkko and Agema

The Troglydytes worked pretty well in this case. Since I am playing Abysia my hitters are the Burning Ones, does being under water hurt these guys? Anyway, it should help prevent me from igniting my non-Abysian allies that are close to my troops.